Authentic Connection Beats Every Algorithm | Heidi Medina

Heidi Medina returns to MarketPulse with one of the most honest and surprising conversations we’ve ever recorded. From being labelled too much as a child to running multi-six-figure businesses before the age of twenty-five, Heidi’s story is a lesson in resilience, reinvention and the power of real human connection. Her journey from farm life to entrepreneurship to global relationship strategist reveals how early experiences shape the way we communicate, lead and build businesses today.

This episode traces the unexpected stepping stones that built Heidi’s career: a flower business started at thirteen, a landscaping job that turned into full ownership, and a cold pitch to the CEO of a $64B company that landed a same-day reply. She explains how communication challenges, neurodiversity, and early misunderstanding shaped her mission to help business owners talk to people better — not louder.

As we move through her story, Heidi dismantles the myths around autistic communication, why so many small businesses struggle to turn content into clients, and why relationships outperform algorithms every single time. She and Paul unpack the real reasons communication breaks down in business, why superfans won’t pay your invoices, and how to identify the tiny fraction of people who are truly your clients.

If you want 2026 to be the year you build a calmer, more profitable business rooted in trust and real conversations, this episode gives you the roadmap. Heidi’s lived experience across five businesses proves a simple truth: content may attract, but conversations convert.

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Transcript

Paul 0:02

She's back and she's back to remind us that human connection. It isn't a tactic, but it's a business model. Heidi Medina is a five time entrepreneur and business relationship strategist who believes that people don't refer followers, they refer relationships having already joined MarketPulse once in season one to unpack the power of real conversations, Heidi returns with a more personal focus this time. This time we explore the evolution of talk to Heidi from its conversational marketing roots to a global movement about building genuine relationships in business and life. Now based in Portugal, heidi's story is one of reinvention from corporate consultants to entrepreneur, to mentor of hundreds of business owners who've turned conversations into paying clients. Her message has matured into something timeless. Authentic connection beats any algorithm. I can't say it that loud enough. I can't say that loud enough. Heidi, welcome back. How are you?

Heidi 1:05

I think so much. I'm so excited.

Paul 1:07

I just, I love the bios that we get on the show now. Like I just, I feel so good reading them out. It's so much fun and we have so many amazing personalities. I mean. I've been introducing you to quite a few of the guests that we've had on the show, and I'm just absolutely I'm so pleased with the progress that we've made, but I'm so pleased also to have some of the guests back like yourself, Heidi, for round 2, because I don't think we did you just this completely the first time. I don't think we heard your story enough the first time.

Heidi 1:35

Oh, thank you. Thank you. I think it's amazing too. I mean, you and I, we just send people back and forth with each other and it's just people don't get truly how magical that is, do they?

Paul 1:46

It is fun. It's fun. And I think for the most part as well, for me is it's, it almost always lands. There's always something that comes out. It's almost always something that comes out of those connections. Whereas I've been in partnerships with people before where we've referred people and kind of, it's nice, but like, this isn't really going anywhere. It's not quite the right person that I needed to meet. Whereas you and I we're definitely aligned. We get each other. There's some real purpose and intent in amongst all of it, which I love.

Heidi 2:14

Well, and that's the difference though. We've gotten to know each other and it's kind of funny, I was thinking about this the other day. You know, you think about arranged marriages and a lot of people, of course, the people in the arrangements, they fight it. Oh my god.'cause they were engaged at 12 years old or whatever. And, but in the end, they end up with this great marriage. You know, it because their parents, their outside people knew them. As well, if not better than themselves. And I, I kind of think that's where we go when we end up with being a good introduction. A good referral partner. When you get to know someone, all of a sudden you start seeing these connections that maybe they can't or you ran into them first and then you get to, you said the other day, you get to be the magic thread that connects to people. And I was like, yes, that's it.

Paul 3:04

Yeah,

Heidi 3:04

in one of my comments linked comments. And you said that. And I was like, that's exactly what it is. And it's because we got to know each other. Why those all hit in some way.

Paul 3:14

and true story, of my friends, when I was at college, I introduced to each other who ended up marrying each other. I introduced them.

Heidi 3:20

That's why you were laughing.

Paul 3:22

There's only one of those still together. I'll add that as well. But like, life gets in the way. Right. But hey

Heidi 3:27

you were young. Paul. You'll do better now.

Paul 3:29

I did do better. kept the best personally.

Heidi 3:32

Sometimes it takes more than one try. I got mine on the second try too.

Paul 3:36

we all go there. We all go there. So it's a good segue back to the past though, right? Who was young heidi? At home, at college. Tell me about you. Yeah.

Heidi 3:48

Yeah, I'm late diagnosed Autism and gifted combo, and so I grew up as what people considered a precocious child who probably didn't shut up and ask why way too much. But it was also hard in a lot of ways too, because I always felt like I had to. be myself.'cause there was something wrong with me because I asked too many questions. I was too curious. I, and there was also this thing too, that even like in school and things like that, because I pick up things very fast I learned how to do, I know how to do a lot of things and if I turn my attention to it, I learn how to do it. And there was all this growing up that, you know, being told that I was too much. I lost a lot of friends. I mean, even in my family it was never, always comfortable because I'm always too much. And so it was an interesting, I mean, I learned so much growing up and there's, you know, but theres definitely been some interesting things of finally learning it. That's nothing wrong with you.

Paul 4:49

There is. There is, and we all have our own foibles and our own unique way of doing things as well. Right. What w what was your first job, your first real job?

Heidi 4:59

Well, I grew up in a family entrepreneur relationship with a business, so my first job was already. big enough to walk was already having to help with the farm.'cause I grew up on a produce farm and so I have been one of those children. Farm families work from day one. You know, it doesn't matter what age you are, you're helping out. And then I actually, even because of being in an entrepreneur family, my grandparents were entrepreneurs, my parents were, and my second sister and I actually started my first business when I was 13. She was 11. That business still operates and exists today. My parents and or my dad and my little sister run it today, so

Paul 5:41

Tell us about it. What was that first business? what did an 11-year-old dream up?

Heidi 5:45

13-year-old for me, but yeah, 11-year-old. So I, like I said, we grew up in a family produce farm, and me and my sister got this idea we wanted to grow flowers. Because why not? We already having to, after school, we would be working the produce stand for my parents couple hours after school and selling all fruits, vegetables, you know, that kind of stuff. And we were like, well, we think we could sell some flowers. So my dad funded us 300 bucks that summer to buy pots, potting soil and some seeds, right? And he said, you have to take care of it. You have to do it. I'm not doing it. And we made 1100 bucks that first summer.

Paul 6:20

Amazing.

Heidi 6:21

it. We, I remember we grew marigolds, we grew petunias and there was a Zia. And so we drew three types of flowers. We made 1100 bucks, that was 13 and 11. By the time I hit. Senior year in high school, we couldn't do it no more between getting ready to go to uni and you know, all the school prep and we're later in, in high school and so my dad and mom took it over and continued it because they saw the potential, because we had grown it by that point. To where one of my dad's smaller greenhouses had flowers in it by the time we let it go, and I don't remember what we made our final season and, but we still stayed guiding the business throughout. I mean, because my second business was a landscape business, I was still guiding when my, on my dad on that side to grow the plants I needed in my landscape business

Paul 7:13

But that's how you do it, right? It's connected businesses that have mutual benefit, right?

Heidi 7:18

Yeah. Yeah. It's truly amazing that business was the start of creating so much. I mean, yes, it's not mine. It hasn't been mine since I was 16 years old. But, still for those 3 years it was ours. And, but I still got to guide it and be part of it. And it was incredible part as a child or kid, young kid of. you had parents that actually supported you in being able to do something like that,

Paul 7:44

Yep. I'm not, I just, I can't help but think like that must have set you somewhere above your peers when you went out into full-time education things.'cause you've, at this point, you've already run a business, right? No matter the size of the business or what it's doing, you No. The trials and tribulations of running your own business are far in many and to have that experience already at sixteen's, just a, it's just a crazy thought.

Heidi 8:10

Well, yeah,'cause you'd, I mean there was times at that point, and I know I never felt like, I mean, don't get me wrong, as a teenager of course I felt like I missed out on some things. But I, you know,'cause you'd ha didn't do as many afterschool activities'cause you had to come home and take care of the business and that kind of stuff. So, but you still learn so much and already, but for me, and here's the thing though, for me, I needed that because. I had all this brain power in school. I was in advanced classes at school. I had already done a lot. I did at that our time, it was called College Prep. You are a part of the classes I did in high school, transferred to college already. And so here I was doing all these extra heavy classes that were above and beyond because that's what helped keep my brain occupied and then having this business help that too, because otherwise. I got very bored, not having enough to do. So it was really cool to have that extra thing that challenged me, you know,

Paul 9:13

I do. I do. But then you went off to full-time education, right? What did you study?

Heidi 9:19

For a minute

Paul 9:20

What did you study? I'm

Heidi 9:21

dropout. at the beginning finished late. I, actually got my degree at 34. The reason was, is because when my dad brought home our first computer, again, 13. 13 apparently was a monumental year for me. That was our first computer, came home. took to computers immediately, and tech has always been something that I loved it. I loved it from day one. I mean, I was already breaking things at the in code and stuff like that, and I don't talk about this too much, but I was already figuring out how to hack things. Way back at 14, 15 years old that point of the process and didn't cause any harm. But still it was the challenge of it all

Paul 10:01

Yep.

Heidi 10:02

and, then being able to take that out into the world, you know, and just so I got into, when I got went into uni, what I wanted to do was I wanted to be able to do the front end computer stuff. Front end. I just didn't care about putting together the backend stuff. I, soldering a processor board, whatever. I really didn't give a shit, just let me do the front part, the websites, that kind of stuff. And at that point, UNI did not have a program. It was called computer science. You had to learn how to build the computer first. And so I did. Part of a year in that, and then another part of a year in criminal justice.'cause I decided at that point I'm gonna go be either a cop or a lawyer hadn't decided which yet. So I was learning fingerprinting and all that kind of stuff. And then I got bored. I guess this was a theme I hadn't realised before, but it wasn't keeping me going. And so I dropped out and got a job with a landscape company. That one actually the lead into how my second business got started with working with them 3 years first, so.

Paul 11:02

I can't. I've run outta words when we talk about your past, Heidi.'cause I mean, there are, there's so many similarities, right? So I went to software engineer. I went to study software engineering at uni. I wanted to be a website developer. I didn't wanna be a front end designer, to be fair. I didn't wanna make'em look pretty. I wanted to make the code snappy in the back. I couldn't do that. So I had to do a software engineering course, which is kind of half computer science for the first couple of years. And then you branch off and, so yeah we often nerd out together on, on Tech quite a lot. But why did you want to go and be a cop slash lawyer? What? What led you down that path in the first place? What did you see in it?

Heidi 11:37

I got in a little bit of trouble way back in the day I

Paul 11:40

I'm not shocked.

Heidi 11:41

It, this one comes back to the guy I was dating. So in, in all that process, I got exposed to the system and in my brain I knew I could do something different with it, but as I got more in it, got more learning about it and things like that, on the back end, I realised. I wasn't gonna be able make the difference that I would've liked to make the difference. So it was, our criminal justice system was broke in a lot of countries. Yeah. In us. And so I had this whole idea at 18,'cause I graduated at 17 and at 18 I, I had this whole. Romantic idea. I could go in the system and help change things and this and that, so I did that. But then getting in it and getting exposed to it realised I wasn't gonna be able to make that impact. It's the same reason David's always like, you should go into politics. And I'm like, politics is too broken.

Paul 12:34

I can't, we can't even get there. I'm not going there on this show. We're not going there, Heidi.

Heidi 12:37

don't go there. And that's all I'm mentioning. That is all I'm mentioning about it. But you know, but some of these systems are just too broken for, I feel like I'm better used elsewhere into supporting business owners in doing more. So we can change the world through people.

Paul 12:53

I agree. I agree. So then you've got a job in a landscaping business and you decided that you wanna run your own, right? Like, that's like, I'm not doing this your way.

Heidi 13:02

I didin't actually,I didn't, no. So what happened was it was a family owned business. It was a relatively small company. I mean, I think they had around 30, 35 employees total.

Paul 13:12

I

Heidi 13:13

got hired in on the maintenance side, which was the lawn mowing, the pruning, the hedges, taking care of everything that was installed after the point. And I was there 3 years. It was the only company that had a woman in it. It was a husband and wife owned company. And the maintenance side had a female boss, which trained me, and she left the company I think 2 years in. And I actually ended up taking over her spot of managing that entire department and. A year later. I mean, we're working in, we're working in these communities that people dream of getting into CEOs, movie stars, you know, the krem de la creme of that. So up in this field by just in a sense, and a year after she had quit and I take it over her spot, they decided they were going to let go that entire department. And they came to me and gave me the opportunity to take it over. They're like, you know, either you can buy the equipment we have, you can go out and get your own equipment. They, I had to pitch the clients. I had to, but here it is. I've been working with these clients for 3 years,

Paul 14:22

Yeah.

Heidi 14:23

I had already built the relationships with them. And so when Henry and Heather came to me and they're like, we are letting this go. We would like to give you the opportunity first. They didn't even try to sell it to me. They gave it to me and I mean, and gave me the opportunity. I had to do it all, but they

Paul 14:39

Yep.

Heidi 14:40

me the opportunity, and so I was very lucky in my first business in the sense that I had worked hard, I had earned the respect. I. And so, and of course I wasn't turning it down. I wasn't turning it down. So that's how my second business got started at 21. I had grown it to a multi six figure by 25. Divorce is the only reason it ended.

Paul 15:03

And you've worked with some amazing, well, not worked with directly, but you've cut the lawns and landscaped for some of the world's most amazing celebs, right?

Heidi 15:12

did and I got to meet these people and talk to them and hang out with them. I parties with some of them and you know, some of them I never met. Some of them you only ever met the front person that dealt

Paul 15:21

with you

Heidi 15:22

but there was others that I've had dinner with and just got sit down and literally shoot the shit with these people, you know, and you learned really quickly that they're normal people like the rest of us.

Paul 15:34

It is, it's funny, right? but its

Heidi 15:35

An experience.

Paul 15:37

I was having this conversation the other day with someone I can't quite remember how we got onto the topic. I think it was around footballers and what footballers in England get paid and all this sort of thing. And it, and I said, well, it's funny though, right? Because it doesn't matter how much money you've got to a point. Somebody's got a wash up after you've eaten tea.

Heidi 15:56

Yep.

Paul 15:56

Somebody has to read the kids a story before they go to bed.

Heidi 16:00

Yeah.

Paul 16:00

Somebody has to deal with that hangnail that the, that your son has before bedtime. Somebody has to fold the laundry and put it away. And it's like, it doesn't matter how much money you get unless you've got a servant living with you 24 7, which, who wants that in 2025, right? There's not many people that have that. But like it's a great equaliser Like we all live this very normal life. And just our tastes and expenses change. That's all it is. More zeroes you get in your bank account, the more you spend on things. And I could go on, I could go on for ages, but like they are, they're just normal people. Like, but people fan over them all the time. That's the problem. It, I can imagine that's annoying.

Heidi 16:44

Yeah. Yeah. And do they have the funding that they can do some things? All of us can't do. Like, I mean, I had clients that had live-in nannies. I, you know, I had clients that, the fifth house, the one we took care of was 40,000 square foot home that was seen maybe 2 weeks out of the year. you know what I mean? So

Paul 17:02

Yeah.

Heidi 17:02

those types of people, I mean. Kim Basinger, Alex Baldwin both had houses next door. They were neighbours to each other on Figured Eight Island where I did that and it is just the, it's, but they're just people.

Paul 17:15

Yeah.

Heidi 17:16

You know, they really are just people. Their life might look a little bit different, but at the end of the day, they have problems just like we do. They still laugh, they still talk, they still, and it is really cool. I think getting exposed to that, you kinda lose your Starr struckness after a while too,

Paul 17:32

Yeah.

Heidi 17:32

because you just realised

Paul 17:33

they're just Yeah, you do.

Heidi 17:33

people.

Paul 17:34

deferential, right?

Heidi 17:35

and then you meet one that's like, oh my God. But it's, you know, it's not

Paul 17:39

Yeah. think that's a beautiful segue into where you're at now, right? Because people are just people across all walks of life and being able to build relationships, being able to connect people is, I think, is a beautiful skill. I love being able to do that for people and help people in a way that sometimes they can't even help themselves in that way. What was the point where you decided that? You were going to set up, talk to Heidi. What was the crucible that said This is enough. I'm doing it.

Heidi 18:13

Well, I'd been, I just really wanted to get the ba I wanted to get to supporting smaller to mid-size business owners. I had already been on the back end freelancing for corporate doing content, social media management for almost a decade, doing a lot of the writing, you know, blogs and actual content that people see on the other side, and been doing that for almost a decade and. Don't get me wrong, I'm still, there's still things I'm gonna be doing for corporate here and there and stuff, but I really wanted to get back to supporting business owners.'cause I had been one by this time, you know, talk to Heidi's, my 5th business. so to be able to get back into supporting that.'cause I was watching so many people in the online space struggle and the biggest reason they struggle is they're not building the relationships. They're not talking to people, they're focused on posting content, they're, and doing all this stuff. But to be able to come back and the more I was away from it, the more I felt drawn back to it and being able to support, because I do think small business owners, if we put enough money in their hands and things like that, they're gonna change the world.

Paul 19:23

What I love about where you've ended up. Is that it's the complete polar opposite that most people would expect for somebody who's been diagnosed autistic, and yet here you are. Right? A lot of people would wrongly assume that somebody who's autistic wouldn't be able to build those relationships or enjoy building relationships or help others build relationships. And yet here we are and I think that's beautiful that you can.

Heidi 19:49

Yeah.

Paul 19:50

Challenge that popular belief that misconception that's the case and excel at what you are doing because you are, you do, you are amazing at what you do. Heidi.

Heidi 19:59

I think part of it is because I did struggle. Don't, and I still, there are still things today that people do that I really don't get why they do it when it's so easy just to talk to each other the problem goes away and we want, I find that so frustrating and, but I had problems growing up with people, you know, people, I would have really good friends that would all of a sudden just refuse to talk to me anymore, and I never knew why. They were just gone from my life. Friends, and I still don't understand that these days, that part hurts. It always will. When people just are in your life and things are great and then they just literally ghost you and treat you, you know, you, you no longer exist. And I still don't understand that part. But, so going into this was a, but because of all that I was learning and going into this is a little bit,'cause a lot of people were like, yeah, you really wanna help people. And I do, but a little bit of a selfishness. If we wanna call it that, because I know that communication will solve any problem that we have. And so if I can help people communicate better and more, it helps me because like those people that just disappeared on me and I never knew why. I never knew if I did, obviously I must have done something. I don't know what, but, and they didn't tell me to gimme a chance to, you know, because it would never have been intentional, but. Now to be able to allow people to have that skill of being able to communicate so you have better relationships with clients, your family, you know, your friends and everything is just, I just watch so many businesses struggle and the reason they do it is lack of communication that works'cause they don't know what to do.

Paul 21:42

Yeah. Which is surprising because we all grew up living a life around building relationships with people our entire lives, but then all of a sudden we, there's a gap where we can't see how to apply that to a business situation. Right.

Heidi 21:55

Yeah, well, even our regular relationships, it's not, but think about this. This is a skill that you learn from the moment you start talking. You start hearing it first. And then you start talking. And the only learning you get when it comes to communication is what you mirror and pick up from the people around you. You're not, we're not taught this skill, this life skill of interacting with other people and things like that. I mean, one of the things that I got to learn David and I, my husband, early on in our relationship, we had some issues and the our issues came because we couldn't communicate with each other. So we went into couples therapy and we were in it for 3 years, learning how to communicate with each other, but that also helped me. I already was building good relationships, but it helped me build them better. Absolutely. It taught me skills of communicating with someone to help them not feel threatened. It taught me how to express myself better in a way that other people could understand me, and again. Feel empowered, not threatened.'cause a lot of the ways we word ourselves and things like that, even though we're not intentionally doing it, it comes off accusatory and stuff like that. And that's

Paul 23:07

Yep.

Heidi 23:07

in business because as a business, people forget a lot of what we're doing is handling people's problems. They wouldn't need to hire us otherwise. Right. That's why like when people cold pitch in the, oh, we, you and I know about shitty cold pitching it.

Paul 23:24

How we met. This is how we met. Yep.

Heidi 23:28

But what people do is they come, they think they're doing well by coming at somebody in a cold pitch, and they're saying, oh, this is what's wrong with your business and I can help you, but here's a stranger saying this is what's wrong with you. Immediately we're like nope. We don't want that. We don't know you. And you're sitting here saying something's wrong with me and so that's why it doesn't work so well.

Paul 24:23

And I think it, there's worse, right? Like a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs are neurodiverse, right? This is well known. We're attracted to the risk taking, we're attracted to the dopamine. We're attracted to the challenges and the problems that come with it. And every neurodiverse person I've. met Has much better spidey sensors than your average neurotypical person on these things. Right? Like, you don't even have to say something spammy to me for me to know. You're about to pitch me. I can just see it coming. I've never, ever wrong. I know for a fact. Right. Okay. I'm gonna answer this like this, and then the next thing you are gonna do is bam. There you go. Thank you. Yes. You have a webinar coming up in a week's time, and would I like to attend? No, I wouldn't. No. Thank you. I don't know who you are and No, I really don't need to have your services rammed down my throat more. Thank you.

Heidi 25:15

d David laughs at me. Do you do this? Sometimes I will intentionally take one knowing they're gonna pitch me just to prove myself. Right.

Paul 25:23

Yeah. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. Yeah, all the time. Yeah. I don't wanna be a bad person here. Maybe I'm cynical, but I think this is what's gonna happen. Oh, yeah. Yep. Not cynical.

Heidi 25:33

But we're so aware, but we're so aware that we are awareness that we wanna make sure that we're not being cynical on it. That's an awareness in itself. That's a superpower that we actually test ourselves rather than just automatically assume. I do, one just the other day and I could tell I knew it. No. So she started off pray immediately. She sends me a message, she's praising what she sees. It is enough that she's obviously has looked at my profile. And then the next thing when I responded back was, you know, I asked her what was it about the relationship over algorithm? Because she said, oh, I love how you build a relationship over. Functioning for the algorithms or something like that. And I came back and I said, so what was it about that really attracted you? And she's like, oh my God, the relationship building and have you thought about writing a book? I was like, that wasn't, that was quick. That was very quick.

Paul 26:24

But we all feel it, right? Like we all feel it. And I think I've said this before, I think a lot of people wait until they're desperate to try outreach, right? They assume that their marketing and sales is gonna work. And it's gonna bring people in. I just need to wait long enough and the runway runs out. And now I'm in desperation status because this month I need to bring money in and I need to bring it in now. And I need, the only thing that brings in results now is called pitching now and now works for you. It doesn't work for them. Is the sad truth of it. Like we value relationships over almost everything else.

Heidi 26:58

Yeah, but here's the thing, Paul. I actually do, can do cold pitching and do it very well, and I can teach people how to do it. I mean, and I have, because there are certain situations where cold pitching works, you know, corporations. I mean, I did that for 10 years. Of course I'm cold pitching

Paul 27:17

Okay.

Heidi 27:17

learned to do it. Well, I mean, I had the ex CEO of PepsiCo on a Sunday. I sent her a thing'cause I was out. I was drinking one of their naked Juice products. I don't know if they have that in the uk, but The Naked

Paul 27:31

I know what it is though, Yeah.

Heidi 27:32

Yeah. So all the juice products. So I literally was in the store. I'd gotten my favorite one. I uncapped it, and all of a sudden I was just hit with this idea for them, for influencer marketing that would work a campaign. So I immediately just dashed out. I think it was 5 or 6 sentences. There's a, over on my blog is the actual pitch I sent. a Sunday afternoon directly to the CEO and within 2 hours she had responded still Sunday afternoon. Can you meet my marketing manager on Monday,$64 billion company, CEO on a Sunday personally.

Paul 28:08

There's definitely a science behind it. I would call it almost. no

Heidi 28:12

it's not. I was still building a relationship, cold pitch or not. I went in it from a point of building a relationship and I did not talk anything about what was wrong with the

Paul 28:22

company Yeah,

Heidi 28:23

Instead, I was talking about what I was excited and that I loved the product and that I had this great idea and I just wanted to share it. I still was building a relationship.

Paul 28:33

but it's like with all the AI that's proliferated since the last time, even just since the last time we had on the shore, Heidi, I think. Do you know what, so many people reel against it. Right? And I'm all for it. I'm all for it. Because if you want to use cheap and nasty AI to try and get into people's inboxes, go ahead. Because all that does is it makes it so much easier for the genuine people like us to just knock on the door and go, Hey, I saw this cool thing that you did. I really like it. We should chat. I'm your people. And that's really all it's about, right? Like it's finding your tribe. And again, even. Even like people talk about finding their ICP, their ideal ca client persona, right? Great. Okay. But your ideal persona is this box here, right? Also gotta throw into that the people you get on with, the people you align with, and what actually, you'll probably end up with this tiny little circle up here, and they're your people. They're the ones you need to reach inside that big box there, right in this little corner here. They're your people. The rest of these people, they need your stuff, but they won't like you or they don't get you or they don't understand you. Finding those people. That's genius. And that's the bit that's fun because then you enjoy your business, right?

Heidi 29:43

Well, and that's how we get to build the relationships and I think the biggest thing I see people missing, and I suspect you'll agree with me on this, people are only focused about finding the clients. They're not focused about building relationships like yours and mine, where we refer people back and forth introduce people and expand our networks. And you know, that's something that, you know, I help people with too. And because we know this makes our business so much easier. So while you're focused on just this little corner, that's your ideal client, what about your ideal target audience? Those people that are. Superfans gonna comment on all your content so that it gets seen by, by your ideal client. Send you introductions, talks about, I mean, the amount of people you send me or I know when I'm out, I'm at a networking event. Oh, you need to meet Paul Banks.

Paul 30:34

be perfect Yep.

Heidi 30:35

You guys should, and next thing you know, obviously I'm connecting you. But people don't do enough of that. And realising that, make these relationships with industry leaders and influencers. Quit looking at these people, down on these people and start making friends with'em.'cause they're gonna send you your next client and then you don't have to do all that. Marketing life gets

Paul 30:55

so much Yeah.

Heidi 30:56

easier.

Paul 30:56

What I would say on that note though is to be careful not to create content for those super fans. They're not the people that you want to reach. In the end,

Heidi 31:07

No still

Paul 31:08

gotta create content for the people that you want to reach, that want to work with you.

Heidi 31:14

Yes.

Paul 31:15

your super fans will then, because I see a lot of this is people go out in the chase, the likes and engagement and the comments, well, I posted this the other day and it did really well, but the loads of people commented on it,

Heidi 31:24

no.

Paul 31:24

I'm gonna create more of that. Great. Okay. But what does your target audience think of that content? Because if it gets in front of them and it's not doing its job. Doesn't matter how much noise you make, you are whistling in the wind.

Heidi 31:37

Well, and that's what I remind people too, because a lot of people are like thinking, oh, I didn't get enough views, I didn't get enough likes, comments, whatever on it because, oh, I was talking about my business. Well, that's actually the way it should be.

Paul 31:50

Yeah.

Heidi 31:50

so many people are like, oh, I want all my posts to look like, do you look like coffee or tea? You know? Or, here's what I did last weekend with my family. And of course, because that's the stuff everybody will comment on, that's the stuff that everybody can relate to. But we don't want our posts that are our business post flooded because that means we're not narrowing it down to our people.

Paul 32:14

Yeah.

Heidi 32:15

So many

Paul 32:16

I couldn't agree more. Like I, and honestly, we could go on for hours and hours talking about this. I don't want this to become a, you know, this isn't a lecture on how to do things the right way or the wrong way. This is Heidi's story, but it's, I think it's a phenomenal journey that you've been on. I think people, if they've followed the story through, you can see how you've gotten to the point where you are now, where you are an expert at giving that advice on building the conversations. What I'm gonna say is, this is episode 2 of 2026, Heidi, so we're, I know we're recording in November, right? Like my decorations aren't even up yet, and we're going out mid-January on this episode. So in 2026, what's the first step for business owners to creating better relationships with the people they need to meet. What do they need to, what's the one thing that they should be starting to do now?

Heidi 33:06

Quit focusing so much on content and start talking to people

Paul 33:09

We had an argument about that the first time you said that, but you're right. But you're right. I get it. You're right. It's not about volume of content.

Heidi 33:17

If we're not talking to people, then you cannot build a relationship. You cannot, and not, people are instead, let me post that piece of content. Let me do this. Well, while you're focused on content, you could have been talking to 5, 6, 7, 10 people and don't get me wrong, we still need some content. We need that. That helps. We want content. That's part of the process. But at the end of the day, if you're not having enough conversations, that's why you don't have enough clients.

Paul 33:45

I love it. It's a great statement to leave on. It's a great statement to leave on. Thank you very much for your time today Heidi, it's been great to have you back. Have a fantastic week,

Heidi 33:53

you. Thank you.

Paul 33:54

and viewers, listeners watching along at home, thank you very much for joining us today on this edition. I hope you are having a great start to 2026, and if you are, please give us a subscribe and a follow. We do appreciate. Thank you very much. See you later.