Why Authenticity Is Not an Excuse for Mediocrity | Michael Allosso

Michael Allosso is back on MarketPulse Pros & Pioneers, and this episode is a masterclass in what authentic leadership actually looks like when the stakes are real.

Because authenticity is not a free pass to lower the standard. It is not an excuse for mediocrity. And it definitely is not the same thing as “being comfortable”.

In this conversation, Michael breaks down one of the most powerful frameworks we’ve ever discussed on the show: authenticity can only be measured by objective, not by obstacle. In other words, what matters is what you are committed to delivering, not what you are dealing with behind the scenes.

We also go deeper into risk-taking as a personal, practical leadership tool, why awareness shifts change your entire life, and the “tombstone test” that forces you to define what you are really here for.

This is a conversation about leadership presence, personal brand, and showing up in both Act One and Act Two of your life, without becoming a different person behind closed doors.

Thanks for listening!!

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Transcript

Paul 0:10

He didn't fit the mold, so he made a stage and then he turned it into a movement. Michael Allosso is back baby! He built a life on presence, performance, and powerful disruption. First as a high school drama teacher, then as an award-winning theatre director, and now he's a globally recognised coach for leaders who want to show up like they mean it. He grew up watching his brothers dominate the field while he stared quiet on the sidelines, sketching his own script, but the theatre to gave him a voice coaching, gave it reach, and his signature program"you on your best day", gave people the tools to stop performing and stop becoming. Michael doesn't do lukewarm. He believes the stakes are high in every conversation, and that leadership is a show that it must be real or it fails And the authenticity isn't an excuse for mediocrity, it's the Fuel for Excellence. His first episode was an absolute masterclass in Living with Intention. And this time we're gonna go further into luck, Legacy, and what really opens the door to who you are meant to be. Michael sir, welcome back to the show.

Michael 1:17

I am filled with gratitude. I am filled with thanks because I get to spend a wee bit of time with the handsome Paul Banks.

Paul 1:26

I love it. I love it. How are you You good?

Michael 1:30

do you know Paul? It is snowing gently here in beautiful New England. Remember, you're old England.

Paul 1:38

Yeah.

Michael 1:38

New England we have snow like it's. So I'm looking at the ocean. I'm actually, even though I can look at you in the lens of the camera, I'm looking at you over the Atlantic Ocean because there's England. I see it way over there as in my little beautiful southern Maine inlet on the Atlantic Ocean, snow, gently falling, gentle snow covering all around the ocean. It couldn't be prettier.

Paul 2:03

I am absolutely jealous. I can tell you in, original old England, it is gently raining again,

Michael 2:11

What else is new?

Paul 2:12

and it's rained gently all day. And guess what it did yesterday?

Michael 2:16

Hello. It's not like I've never been, your intro was stunning, Paul. I love that sentence. You said authenticity isn't an excuse for mediocrity. That is brilliant because to me, authenticity is the most important word as we discussed last time, and you're a hundred percent right, people use it as an excuse for mediocrity. I never said it quite so succinctly as you, because sometimes executives will say to me, because I talk about act one and act two. Which you are so good at, you're so good at Leo and Luca, act two is so important to you that's a big topic. Lately, both here and abroad, act one and Act two.

Paul 2:57

Yep.

Michael 2:58

And a lot of times, especially male CEOs will say to me, I'm not gonna do your stuff when I get home. When I get home. I just wanna be myself. I just want to sit on the couch and just let it hang. That's what being at home is really. So your life partner and your kids get squat. That's your definition of authenticity. So to remind your viewers and you, authenticity can only be measured by objective. You can't measure authenticity by obstacle. So today I'm sick. I'm never sick. Today I am sick, so I should be weeping, blowing my nose under, utilising my energy in order to be authentic. No. My sickness is my obstacle. My objective is to give your podcasters quality because they commit the time to make themselves better, and I have to assume that probably their obstacles are bigger than mine to participate today. And when I think that in my head, it helps you to be more authentic, not less authentic. So my authentic self wants to give to them. Brilliant introduction. I may steal that somewhere. I may or may not give you credit.

Paul 4:09

You are more than welcome. You steal that all you want, Michael. And yes, Thank you very much for joining us despite your illness and I hope. We put a smile on your face this afternoon so that you can continue your healthy recovery. So for those of you who watching along, if you haven't seen Michael's first episode, please stop watching this. Stop watching. Stop what you're doing. Go back. Go back, I'm gonna put the link in the show notes. You must go back and watch it because Michael's story is incredible. I loved it. And it will feed into the themes and topics that we're discussing today. So please go back and have a watch through that, at least the highlight reel because it will make you laugh and it'll make you want to watch the rest of it. Michael, we said in the first episode that you don't believe in the word, just it's not just a rehearsal. You're not just a kid. Do you believe that the right moments in life find us? Or do we have to be ready to meet them when they appear?

Michael 5:00

That question the stars talk about all the time. Yeah. It's like a mic drop question. I was reading I think it was Streisand's autobiography where that question came up. An article with Clooney in GQ where that came up is that, do you go seek it or does it find you, if you start the day saying, my objective is, and you choose something that heightens the stakes, that creates an urgency. You're gonna find things. so it's almost a trick question'cause it's a combo platter. it's if my spirit is in the right mood, if I'm open and vulnerable, then ooh, look what came before me. I'll give you an example on a minor scale. My buddy Gavin, whom you know, my, my 20-year-old like sidekick these days, whom I adore, who teaches me everything. he said, eh, 6 7 And I said, what are you talking about? What? What are you saying? He said, 6 7 I said, could you speak English? And he explained 6 7 to me. Now, this was months ago, Paul. The next week. I saw the local morning broadcast journalist talking about 6,7 I heard 6 like people my age use 6 7 It heightened my awareness. Had I not had that conversation with Gavin, I don't know if I would've even heard or noticed the discussion about 6 7 the metaphor that I'm not doing such a good job making is. Is when you heighten your awareness about something and you make a decision and your antennae are there and your pores are open, things come in. And so secret weapon number 13 is risk taking. Go outside your comfort zone. The problem with that secret weapon is it's very personal. I would tell you, if I were coaching you, I'd say, I want you to take an improv class. I want you to take a singing lesson. I want you to come do my retreat for two and a half days. In Southern Maine where I make you do improv for 2 and a half days and be creative if you told me to do that, it's yeah, when does it start? That's not a big deal for me. What's a risk for me? Hotels that don't have room service, dirt bugs. So I, Paul, I was speaking in LA talked about risk taking and one of the members of the group was this wonderful person named Marilyn. she ran her travel company called Wow Travel. And she came up to me afterwards, she said I would like to take you to the theatre and to dinner tonight. You up for it. And I said, heck yeah. So we went to the Pasadena Playhouse, which is a great theatre And then she took me out to dinner and she said, where did you always want to travel? And I said, ah, Marilyn, did you go to all this trouble to sell me a trip? And she said, no. Where? I'm curious. And I said it's a great question. I really love animals and I want to practice my Spanish. To me, the ideal trip would be to go to the Galapagos in pseudo Medica. I've never been, and I hear animals run free. They aren't afraid of people. I said, man, this would, and the government controls how many humans go there, so that it maintains that. I said, it sounds idyllic to me. Said, when are you free? When are you available? I said, oh, not for another year and a half. She called me shortly after that and she said, I'm planning a trip the Galapagos for you and Peggy and 5 other couples. I'm honoring your dates, and she said, because you talk about risk taking. we go to the Galapagos, we're gonna go to the Amazon jungle of Ecuador. And Paul, I said Whoopee I went to the Jungle store and I bought myself a smart jungle outfit. You do not wear a smart jungle outfit in the Amazon jungle of Ecuador. it's Filthy. They put a net over your bed so things don't eat you in the night. You can't put paper in the toilet shower. the natives hang out a water bottle in the sun and at 4 o'clock they bring it to your hut, hang it on a hook. You open a little spigot and then you run around it and that's your shower. You go on bug hikes, photographing bug. I kill bugs. I was filthy. I was smelly. We landed at the Galapagos. I took a shower. I got over it. What scares you every day if we explore what scares us and go a little deeper into that journey, the world starts opening up and things that you didn't know. That trip was one of the best trips I ever took in my life. I was in the actuan jungle eating bugs. I was the last one in the group to eat the bug. I know it was disgusting. Everyone's doing it, peer pressure and there were lemon ants and so people eat them. So the actuans are a pagan culture. Then of course, we Catholics, we come and we make everybody see God. And so the Catholics came and it was from Mexico. So my tour guide came to the hut at 5 in the morning on Sunday, on the door, put me in his rowboat, we went down the Amazon River, like I don't know what was in that river, Paul. And we landed at this little village. where parrots flying. I thought parrots lived in zoos. They were parrots flying. And we landed at this little hut. It was all dirt. and we attended a Catholic mass celebrated in actuan, which is this pagan tongue with drums and a Mexican nun harmonising in Spanish. This is so outside my comfort zone. This isn't my cushy little church in New England. Where we have coffee and donuts afterwards. this was dirt floor, tongues, African tongue sounding things that weren't African. In fact, they were actuan stupid little American white boy thing. Hearing these things. It was mind blowing. That's what is our version. Every day of doing something like that, everybody has something different. For some of my clients, Saying hello to the person next to them at the airport, which is way outside their comfort zone.

Paul 11:23

Yeah,

Michael 11:24

But when you do, sometimes you learn that person next to you could change your life.

Paul 11:29

I think what I'm hearing from that, Michael, and that's a like all your stories are phenomenal. I love your stories so much, but I think what I'm hearing from that is that. You've gotta have an open mind. You've got to realise the door's being opened for You in order to walk through it when it does open. And I think there's a lot of people that are trapped in their current way of doing things that can never see themselves being anything more than what they are. And they're not prepared to even try. And that for me is really sad because, and Right. I'll link. Yes. And I'll include myself in that from 7 years ago. Right before I'd left retail, I was that guy. I couldn't see myself doing anything else. But yet, I suppose when the time came down to it and I was ready for that conversation to happen where I escape from the retail world and got into the things that shaped where I am now. And now I'm so used to walking through open doors and I do it all the time now. Now the door's just constantly open'cause I think I put a wedge in it. But if I'd listened to me talk like this 7 years ago. I'd have switched me off, if I'm honest, because I wasn't ready to hear any of that. what do you think it means to be, when we talk about people becoming who they're meant to be, what does that actually, what does that mean to you?

Michael 12:41

You hear me talk a lot, Paul, about objective. So objective. First of all, we should define that and theatre objective is a really important word. So if I'm coaching you in a scene with Leo, and so I wouldn't talk about plot, I wouldn't talk about theme, a little bit about character. Mostly I'd talk about objective. I'd say, Leo, what do you want from dad in this scene? Paul, what do you want from Leo in this scene? If I took you to the theatre in the West end tonight and you, I got, you got to meet the actors afterwards and you wanted something intelligent to say. you'd say this I really enjoyed your performance and your objectives are so strong and clear. Oh, they'd pass out on the sidewalk.'cause that's all we talk about. Objectives. So objectives means what your desired result is. Inherent with objectives is a bigger umbrella. that's called super objective. Did we talk about this last time? No, I don't think so.

Paul 13:35

No.

Michael 13:35

super objective Paul means why God put me on the earth, I want on my tombstone. What drives me, and a lot of times people haven't figured that out yet. when I'm coaching

Paul 13:45

No.

Michael 13:46

I ask them and they look at me like I have 12 heads. And often they say my super objective is to make sure my kids can eat after I die. They come up with money. Usually the easy thing is to come up with

Paul 13:57

money Yeah.

Michael 13:59

The great thing about super objectives is they can change. Like you're so open. You talked about your own evolution. I love that image you said of watching yourself. Doing this podcast if Paul from 10 years ago watched this. Yeah, I'm thinking the same. When you said that, that really resonated for me, would I have believed I was a high school drama teacher for crying out loud? Would I have believed I'd be sitting here doing this with you? Super objectives takes us through that definition. So super objective means what does Paul Banks want on his tombstone? What drives Paul Banks every day. Some people call it vision, some people call it their mission statement. Lots of names and theatre, we call it super objective. So mine is, example, that I want every human being I meet to be better because they met me. Whether that's you, my family, the guy next to me on the airplane the barista at the coffee shop, I want them to be

Paul 14:58

better because Yolanda.

Michael 14:59

they met me. So once I've decided that, if I wake up in the morning and remind myself of that, then those pores get open. The clarity of the day happens. And again, instead of playing the obstacles that are thrown me, oh, you're sick. Oh, that person was mean to you. Oh didn't show up when it was supposed to. Oh, my, team didn't deliver the goods. I were supposed wait a minute. Yeah, those are all real. They're all authentic. They're authentic obstacles. What's your objective? why are you on the earth? The big super objective? And then now how am I gonna get my team to deliver the goods I need in order to achieve my objective, which supports my super objective? Am I being too super technical?

Paul 15:46

No, it makes perfect sense. No I think it's nice to approach things from a different point of view. I hear all this, a lot of leadership conversation comes from corporate environment, right? And I think it's lovely to hear similar ideas and ideology, but addressed from a theatrical standpoint, I think it's a breath of fresh air. I love. it

Michael 16:02

Yeah, and that's exactly, so if again, if you were to go study the actors on the West end, the director would say, what? is the character's super objective? So sometimes we call it the Paul, what they want And then as you choose objectives, you can only choose objectives that are gonna support that super objective. there are, there's a word I haven't used yet, which is the missing piece. I'm talking about objectives. I've talked about obstacle. The missing piece is tactics. So go back to my example of you doing a scene with Leo. If you told me your objective was to make Leo do his homework, my next question I would ask you is, how are you gonna do that, Paul? And your answers plural are your tactics. And in theatre we say you have to have a minimum of three tactics to win your objective. So if your objective is to make me be a good guest today, you have to have tactical variety. You have to have a diversified tactical toolbox.'cause what's gonna work for me isn't gonna work for your next guest. I Yep.i notice you do a lot of things like I can tell you what your tactics are'cause your objective is to make me excellent. In your podcast you care. You're very prideful about your podcast. You love it.

Paul 17:18

Yeah.

Michael 17:18

You're proud that it's excellent. You're proud of the people you serve. So I always think your objective is to make me excellent. And so here's some of the tactics I see. You do trust. You always trust me, never crush me. You're always encouraging. Two, you retain things that I told you. You keep a high level of retention, that's a tactic. Three, you're vulnerable with me. You don't pretend to be Mr. Podcaster.'cause I wouldn't have come back for a second time that bores the

Paul 17:53

pants Yeah.

Michael 17:53

off of me. lots of opportunities for me to do podcasts. I don't do podcasts with Mr. Podcast It's It's like I wanna vomit. Quick sidebar. I did a podcast with a guy and he was Mr. Podcaster, and he spoke more than I did in the podcast. So at the end, he had the audacity to say, Michael, you're excellent at this. Do you have any feedback for me? And I said, are you serious? Do you really want to hear it? He said, oh yes, I'm very serious. I said, podcast was about you. It wasn't about me, it was about you. He said, what? And I explained why. Just finished off the sidebar. He became a client, fixed it and is brilliant now. He really, he had no awareness. He was not being

Paul 18:42

humble Yeah.

Michael 18:42

in the podcast. He's a wonderful man and that's why if he wasn't, if I didn't sense he was a wonderful man, I would've just said, oh yeah, fine. Let me get outta here and I never wanna see you again. But I thought

Paul 18:53

Yep.

Michael 18:54

I was right. My intuition was right, that he really was earnest in his request. See, you are the opposite. Your tactics always are. Michael knows more than I do. Let me give the ball to Michael and one more tactic. You're not overly humble, so I feel like I, don't like the overly humble, Oh, yes. Whatever you wanna do. Oh, I don't know. Go ahead. I don't wanna be on those podcasts either. That doesn't make me better. You match me as

Paul 19:24

Yep.

Michael 19:24

a collaborator. So you use that as a tactic that we're partners in this podcast, even though I'm the featured guest and you're gonna let me talk more. You come ready with questions. don't shy away from my answers. I don't see you like saying, oh, I've hurry up and finish, answer the question.'cause I have two more questions that I have to do before this is over. your ready to, so I would say you use spontaneity with me as a tactic to get my point here, You have a giant

Paul 19:53

yeah, of course.

Michael 19:54

Tactical portfolio that you use and you whip out different tactics. So that's what we all need to do day to day. But if you haven't stated the objective and you don't know why you're here, how can you do that? You don't know what you're doing, so then

Paul 20:07

Yep.

Michael 20:08

reactive and you're playing defense the whole time. And we're both football lovers on different sides of the pond. If you only have defense, you ain't gonna win.

Paul 20:17

And I think that, you know what? I think that is, you've described there the challenge of most young, not young, but young in business terms, new business owners and entrepreneurs and the challenges I see them facing. Because they worry, and I've actually talked a lot about this over the last week, is that I see. So many people like I did and how, hold my hand up, right? The first year was about building my CRM and managing how many people were in that CRM and worrying about that CRM and how many conversations I had going and how much money that was gonna make me, and what the reports were showing. And then halfway through year two or realised that actually the thing that I've been doing all along is more important than that, which is building the relationships and connecting with people and leveraging those relationships. in the right way and adding the right value. To build business myself, and if You talk to anybody who's been in business for themselves more than 5 or 10 years, they all come back with the same answer. It's not about numbers, it's not about the CRM, it's about managing the relationships, the trust, and being authentic,

Michael 21:19

Everything's about

Paul 21:19

building relationships

Michael 21:20

if you don't have people. How can you do it? AI is not gonna what you are doing right now. Yes.

Paul 22:03

no. And I'm confident, and I think we're all confident with that. When you get to that point, you feel difference. You all of a sudden there's a switch that flicks, I couldn't tell you when it flicked, but it flicked and I realised and I guess there's a nice, there's a nice point here. So you talked earlier on about objectives and obstacles, but we live in a world where. We really value that vulnerability and authenticity at the same time. So where for you is the line between sharing and oversharing in terms of objectives and obstacles?'cause there's a line there, right?

Michael 22:32

And people would rather hear their truth. And be challenged by it, then hear nothing and wonder why. and yet George W. Bush during nine 11 said, no one wants to hear the president say, oh, what was me. So those seems to be on different sides for me. They're not for me. They're the same thing, so we talked about, I'm sick today. How do I know you're not sick? How do I know the people who are listening to this aren't sick? What works for me is to always think that probably someone in my constituency has a bigger problem than mine. Either they have a kid with special needs that they deal with every single day. Someone in assisted living nursing facility, they don't have easy access to someone in their family is struggling with drug abuse, alcoholism, those 4 things. By the way, Paul, when I was locked down for 59 weeks during COVID, and I never left this room and did 299 workshops and keynotes every single day, someone had one or more of those things. So what I have to assume is whatever my problems are, they're not as big as yours. And whenever I assume that, I'm always right. To some extent as, leaders, we need to show up and shut up. So that's the one hand. Now, if I really am vulnerable today and I can't do this, I can open up to you. I can ask for a free pass to postpone this. When leaders do that, my question to them is Absolutely. I understand. I wanna know though, is how many of those do you take in a week, a month, a year? And then of course, my next question, Paul, is if you can take all those free passes, can't everybody else who works for you, and then when does stuff get done? Every day we're faced with a reason that we could be vulnerable. I had nightmares last night. I had a spat with my wife. She's the most important thing. I have a sore throat. worried about the New England Patriots. They're going Denver, and the air is very thin in Denver and they have to play there. Next week. Paul, this is not a fake story. I was in Cincinnati, Ohio, I'm doing a meeting and there's a guy who's on his phone the whole time. And finally it got to the point where I'm speaking about focus and concentration. So I use it as an opportunity to say, now, sir I'm thinking that you must have a crisis today.'cause you've been on your phone the whole freaking time while I've been speaking and no one else in the room has. So it seems to me you must have an urgent crisis that you're dealing with. He said, yes. Thank you for noticing. I said why didn't you share it with all of us? Oh, he said, I'd be glad to. I'm ordering Michael Buble tickets from my wife and my anniversary. Paul, I'm not making this up. did not make this story up. I A usual Michael Sidebar, this guy's a buddy of mine now. He's such a great guy, but you can imagine my reaction. That was his definition of an urgent situation, why he could be rude to everybody in the room. So you see my straddling this line all in for vulnerability. I say go for the vulnerability and avoid using as a free pass. Not to be excellent, but rather as an opportunity to be more excellent through your human vulnerability. That's what I try to do. Now I may pay for it at the end of this, I may collapse because I chose to work while I was sick. I don't think so. My, my track record tells me, I make mistakes. Sometimes I'm far from perfect, by and large, by working through the obstacle gonna get a little momentum. I'm, drinking some liquid. I might heighten my. need to do the right thing so that I get better. I gotta fly tomorrow night. I don't have much of a choice, so I gotta build. I gotta keep building rather than saying, oh yeah, I'm not very well today. I don't know. I don't have, I know I'm sounding hard ass and perhaps I am. Remember dad was a fireman. Dad never took a day off from work, Paul, ever. Now. Paul, just so you know, again, the both sides. Dad died of 58. At age 58 of stomach cancer breathing in all that, fire never took a sick day, but he, left this earth young. Now, you don't get points in heaven for, oh, you never took a sick day. So you gotta find what's right for you. Tell the truth. I say that it's more rewarding not to use it as a reason, not to be excellent and to figure out how. It's a way to make you more excellent so that when the real things happen. can take that time out. know the deaths,

Paul 27:21

Yeah.

Michael 27:21

the tragedies.

Paul 27:22

Yeah.

Michael 27:23

Let's keep those sacred rather than, eh, my toe hurts.

Paul 27:27

I remember when I worked in retail. And we'd, it was a, it was tough. It was a really tough environment. And now, and again, you'd need someone to remind you of exactly what you've just said. And I remember being in store one day and I formed my area manager about something and I was having a bit of a pity party or whatever and he just, he rounded on me on the phone and he absolutely laid me out on the phone. And I went, wow, where did that come from? Why are you we're friends? Because we were friends as well as co work colleagues. And he just replied. He just went, Paul, sometimes you just need to get outta your own way, and sometimes you need someone to stick their foot up your backside so that you remember where you are and what you're doing and get out of your own way. And he says that's the role I have to play for you. Sometimes. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you do need to be listened to and you genuinely have that problem, but other times, yeah. I remember being really annoyed with him at the time wow, it gives you the audacity to talk to me like that. And then after a few days I was yeah, but you know what? It made me a better person because where else does the book stop? The book stops with us, right? We've gotta, we've gotta make our own decisions and we live and die by our own choices and the things that we let slide, the things that we grab hold of with both hands and. I think you're right. If you get rid of the excuses and the thing, the crutches that we lean on, then you're left with the genuine things and nobody begrudges us the genuine things, but it's when you are constantly leaning on a crutch, I'm always late for meetings. It's just the way I am. I'm always rude and abrupt. That's what people expect of me. Their excuses, their crutches. They don't need to be like that. I wonder though, you know what's. Because we are, we're leaning heavily into the world of personal brand here, right? Like leaders have a personal brand and everybody tends to assume, I'm talking about social media. When I talk personal brand, and I'm not, everyone who's a leader, especially has a personal brand. What's the most misunderstood part of a personal brand for you?

Michael 29:23

Is that it's only in Act one, so I call it act one, act two. This is act one. My Business Life Act two's waiting for me behind that door. And the mistake I think people make about personal brand, it's their personal brand for act one, and then Act two, they become somebody else. Now we play lots of different roles. I'm all in for that. I'm playing a role of podcast guest. I leave you, I play the role of husband, then I have to play the role of coach. I have to play the role of associate. I have lots of roles I have to play, and my objectives and tactics may change my core. My personal brand needs to remain the same, and so that to me is the biggest misperception about personal brand. Your personal brand should be 24 7. Now we all need time's out, but the time's out is not when you're with your life partner. It's by yourself. You go in, I'll let me go sit in my car on the side of the road. I had to do this last week actually. i was driving from Florida to Alabama and I just pulled off on the side of the road it was a pretty little waterway and I just sat and I was so exhausted, Paul, that like the sickness was percolating. I passed out with the car running. I've never done that before in my whole life. I woke up and there was a man banging at my window. he thought I was dead. He thought this old dude had died. All this it was pretty scary. And I said, oh gosh, sir. Thank you for waking me up. No, I'm fine. And I really appreciate your kindness. Whats my personal brand? I have to live the personal brand and I take times out by myself. What are my, what is by myself and generationally it's important for us to model this. know how deep I'm into this generation thing. listen to this about personal brand Gavin's 20. Kaylin, my granddaughter's 19. asked him about this experience'cause a couple of Gavin's friends had done some nice things for us around the house. So I said, let's, I would like to take you all out to dinner to say thank you, as a really nice dinner. And they said, oh, I'd love that. I worked all around their schedule. We picked a date 2 hours before the dinner. the 2 guys via Gavin, Gavin texted me and said they're canceling because they have a lot of work to do and their friends at college are gonna be leaving, and so they wanna see them. And I said, all right, Gavin, this is like 3 strikes. one it's 2 hours before we're supposed to meet. They to pick up the phone and call me. two I'm busier than they are. I have more stuff to do than they do. And three, their friends are going off to college. Figure it out. We're going out to a dinner. We can make an hour and a half go before and after they lose. So I asked Kaylen about it and Kaylen said, oh yeah, happens all the time. friends are gonna go out with her and they'll call and it's perfectly accepted. So thesyoungins a a brand that you can't really depend upon them. If you're gonna go out

Paul 32:39

with them Yeah.

Michael 32:40

don't count on it. Then maybe if they're in the right mood, it's okay. they have to understand that those choices, those decisions they're making become their brand. So do they. What

Paul 32:52

you Yep.

Michael 32:52

and I work for is to find a unique brand that's antithetical to the other people around us. So we pop. That will again be a role model if we're leaders. To make other people pop. That's why I love what you do. Your job is to make us role model ways to pop. So I love that you talk about that. Did I misunderstand

Paul 33:15

What an answer. No, that's a great answer. That's a great answer. I love it. I love that you never answer a question the way I expect you to answer it, but you always answer it thoroughly and completely.

Michael 33:24

thank you.

Paul 33:25

And I guess what we're coming up to time, so I don't want to, I don't wanna keep this, I don't wanna go on too long because we could, but you and I could easily chat for hours and hours and I wanna keep this as bite-sized as I can for the audience so they feel comfortable to watch the whole thing. And I want people to watch the whole thing. And again, I'll re reiterate, if you haven't watched the first episode, you one, you haven't listened to what I said at the beginning, how rude. And two, you really do need to go and listen to the first episode'cause you will enjoy it. The last question? I'm gonna come to then, Michael, is returning back to the theme behind the whole podcast, which is about walking through that door when it's open for you, when it's, when you. are presented with that opportunity to change your life, for the person who sees that door's open and they're hesitating, what would you say to. them

Michael 34:07

My favorite people on God's earth are children because children, they open a present at Christmas and they scream when there's something cool in it. when Simon and Mave were little, I'd go to their house and Simon would be in this corner. and Mave would be in that corner. And I'd walk in the door and they would run 90 miles an hour to see who would get to Poppy first.'cause Paul, whoever got to Poppy first was thrown in the air. I would razzle cheeks, do Eskimo noses, would giggle uproariously. And then at some point they would look at me and they'd say, put me down. And the whole ritual was over. So what's my point about kids? Kids don't edit joy and they'll tell you when your breath stinks too. most honest. We go back to authenticity. they're the most honest people on God's earth. So what if we all walked out the door in the morning as children and I look at Teddy, my puppy. I have a new puppy I got, he was born March 14th. I got him May 30th, Teddy, like this fresh snow that fell. this morning when we went out, it was like snowflake was an exhilarating reason to live. And as soon as he uncovered one, he was looking for the next one. What if we took that child, that puppy in us that's still in there somewhere? and we approached the day that way, each moment was a new snowflake. Each moment was another gift that we could open and inside would be something wonderful that would make us scream. That's what we all need to do.

Paul 35:47

I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for your time again today, Michael, it's been an absolute pleasure.

Michael 35:53

Love you, brother, and I love what you said that I. You, you didn't say this word, but in theatre we call it shattering expectations. So my parting shot for your listeners, consistency is a lovely word when it comes to morality, ethics, punctuality. If I say your presentation or your day's activities we're very consistent, what is that code for? You're freaking boring. So what we need to do is what you said, Paul. That was a one of the nicest things you ever said to me you said, when you ask a question, I do not meet your expectations of what you think the answer would be. So what great leaders do, great people do great moms and dads, is we shatter expectations. So as you are walking through that door, think today that you might not meet expectations. You're gonna shatter expectations. Thanks Paul.

Paul 36:52

I love it. Thank you very much for that, Michael. Appreciate it. And thank you, everyone at home for watching along, listening along. I hope that the words that you've heard today help you recognise that door in your own life and give you the confidence to walk through it. And we'll see you next week on Marketpulse pros and pioneers.