Deep Grief Means Deep Love with Carmen Walsh: Grief Series Ep.4

In this episode of the Grief Series, I sit down with Carmen Walsh — writer, speaker, and fierce advocate for women over 40 claiming their freedom and joy — for one of the most vulnerable conversations the series has featured yet.

Carmen opens up about losing her older brother to epilepsy when she was just 15, and how she spent the next three decades shutting her grief down to protect the people around her. She shares the exact moment she decided to stop expressing her feelings — a story involving a piano, a boyfriend, and the words "it's been over a year" — and how that moment shaped her relationships for years to come.

The conversation shifts when Carmen shares her father's death in 2019, and how being present for his passing gave her a completely different, healing experience of grief — one that helped her finally understand what she'd missed for 30 years.

Together, Carmen & I explore why grief has no hierarchy, why we're never taught how to feel our feelings, and why avoiding what feels hard also means denying ourselves what feels delicious. This episode is a permission slip — to feel, to grieve loudly or quietly, and to know there's no wrong way to carry loss.

What You'll Hear In This Episode

• Why grief means you had deep love — and why that reframe changes everything
• Carmen's story of losing her brother at 15, and the moment she decided to stop sharing her feelings
• How her father's death in 2019 gave her a completely different, healing experience of grief
• Why grief has no hierarchy — pet, parent, job, or illness, it's all the same weight
• What Carmen would tell a grieving child — and a grieving adult
• Simple tools for processing grief without a "safe person" nearby (writing, vocalizing, screaming into a pillow)

Connect with Carmen Walsh: https://www.instagram.com/carmen_livelovesavorlife/

Featured Quote

"Deep grief means you felt deep love." — Carmen Walsh

You can find me at:
https://www.instagram.com/cataton/
https://www.facebook.com/casey.taton/

You can find what sparks me at:
https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1AgeRtyojY/
https://www.instagram.com/lmbdcelebrations/

Music by: Jason and Ashley Scheufler
Artwork by:  https://www.instagram.com/graphx_ink/

Transcript

0:04

Hey, friends. Welcome to the Inner Spark Podcast. I'm your host, Casey Peyton. If you're looking to hear stories of transformation and personal growth, this podcast is for you. My guest and I will be sharing those sparking moments that has changed them into living a more fulfilling, authentic life. I'm so excited for you to hear each unique story. So sit back, relax, and let's get started. Hey, friends. Welcome back to the Inner Spark podcast. I'm your host, Casey Tatem. This is the series on grief, and today I have a very, very special guest with me, Carmen Walsh. She is a book-loving hermit and a fierce lioness for individual freedom. She spent decades dropping her joy the moment she thought someone needed her. She was exhausted, and her relationships sucked. After she finally decided to make her joy her number one priority, she saw her marriage dream come true at 52. As a writer and speaker, she shows women over 40 they can drop the guilt, claim their freedom, and freaking love their lives. When she's not reading, writing, or sharing her stories, you can probably find her hiking, photographing another flower or wee bits of moss. Carmen, welcome. I have gotten the pleasure to know Carmen through some coaching communities, and I'm so excited to have you here today. For all you listeners, Carmen is just one beautiful soul, and I'm just blessed to get to call you a friend and get to know you better and better. Thank you, Casey. I feel the same about you. It's been a pleasure, and yeah, looking forward to more and more. I'm so grateful for you're here. I know this is a heavy topic, and so for all listeners, just trigger warnings. We talk about it all. Grief is a feeling. And I'm just gonna start by asking you, Carmen, what does grief mean to you? Mm. Um, to me grief means that you really care. You know, that could be about a person that's no longer with you. It could be about a job that you used to have. It could be about anything. But I think it really just shows that when you have deep grief, it means you had deep love. I love how you just explained that i'm just gonna go back to that. Sure. Because this is one thing I talk about a lot, is that we can have multiple feelings and emotions that exist at the same time. Oh, yeah. And so when you just said it means you have deep love- Mm-hmm that was like, yes, that's the- Mm-hmm the, the feelings are all there, and we welcome all of them, and the emotions, and it's just so good. So thank you for just saying that. Sure. I think it's really important because in our culture, I think we're getting better at it, but we tend to hide our grief. Yes. And, and we tend to think, "Well, I should be over this by now," or, you know, we judge it somehow. And one, it's so unpredictable, and it's not consistent, But I think when you remember that it really just means that you care, then it's not a bad thing. Yes. Right? It's just evidence that you have a big heart. It's evidence that you had something in your life that you really valued. Yeah. And that's beautiful Yeah. I think it means that we're all human. Mm. Every single one of us out there, if you have never experienced grief in your life, then please let me know because I feel like everybody out there has experienced grief, and you just said in multiple ways. Grief can be in so many different ways, and that's what I really wanna do with the series is bring the awareness to give the people the freedom to talk about it and not have to hide it anymore. We are, are okay talking about joy and celebrating, but we wanna talk about grief. Like, let's be genuine, honest human beings on all levels. I agree. I think it's so important because when you feel like you can't talk about something, it actually, that starts to control your life. Yeah. You know? And when you can talk about it and you can feel safe talking about it, that's very important- Yes um, then you feel safe, and you feel like you're not wrong for feeling the way that you do, and it just opens you up to accepting yourself and loving yourself the way you are. And when you can do that, you're better for all the people around you. Like, it is a win-win-win, right? Yes. However many wins you wanna add, it is definitely a win. And I agree. When it, when we shame things, 'cause that's really, right?- Yeah when we don't talk about things, we're ashamed of it. We are somehow embarrassed or ashamed, and we're making it wrong. And any time we do that, I think that is just bad news. It's not good for anyone. Yeah. 100% agree with you. Would you be comfortable sharing a little bit about your story? Sure. It's interesting because grief is not something I've talked about a lot in a, in formal podcasts and things. Yeah. Um, it's something that I actually- I would say did not do well. So we wanna judge it, which of course we don't. But I didn't allow it out, right? I didn't feel safe to express and feel my grief, for a long time, and I think that's why I am passionate about it now. So I love having- Yeah these conversations. One of my older brothers had epilepsy, and so, um, that in itself is a thing. So there's actually multiple layers of grief around my brother. As a child, I was very highly alert, right? Mm-hmm. Listening for seizures and things like that. So I feel like I lost a lot of childhood, the freedom and just the joy of being a child with no responsibilities. I didn't really feel that for very long. And he died when I was 15, and I did not really grieve then. You know, there was the immediate crying at the funeral. Mm. But then after that, I think I just shoved it down. I was still living with my parents obviously, I was 15, and they were of course shattered. Yeah. Right? He was 21. They weren't expecting him to die. Mm-hmm. And, you know, to me, it just felt like they were empty shells walking around our house, and I felt like I needed to tiptoe around them. I didn't wanna cause them any more pain, so I didn't wanna talk about it and cause them more pain, right? So I was worried about their feelings more than mine, and that is a pattern I continued for a few decades. Not until, honestly, I got into coaching and personal development world did I really dig back into, what I've experienced and the feelings and all of that and realize, like, oh my God. I remember I spent a couple days just crying. Um, like, I finally started to grieve it, and once in a while, I will have a day where I'm just, I'm no good. Like, I'm just, okay, I'm signing off for the day. This is just coming up because that's what grief does. It's- Yeah very, um, it'll surprise you. I didn't allow myself, to grieve. And the thing is, you can't just get away from it. You can't not feel it. So you can push it down for as long as you want, but at some point, or in some fashions, it affects your life, right? Yeah. So even if you don't have the days where you're crying on the floor, in some other ways it's affecting probably your relationships if not other things. And so yeah, it's quite a journey and, I would encourage people to really find people that they feel safe with and hopefully sooner rather than later, because there's no reason to try to deal with it all on your own. Yeah. First I just wanna say thank you, and I'm holding space for you for sharing that, I don't even have the right words to say. Losing first of all a sibling, and someone that meant the world to you. It sounds like you had a very deep connection, knowing exactly when the signals and the signs were coming, when things were gonna happen with him, and that connection. And then being 15 when it happened, and the world is already big enough at 15. Yeah. And then to have, a tragedy happen in your world, it's truly life stopping. And just like you said, you felt the feelings at the funeral, and then it's like life goes on, right? Yeah. In my experience that's what I've seen with so many other people, is life goes on. People are around you at the funeral, people are there for you, and then all of a sudden, like, they scatter and their lives go back to normal, but your life is still shattered. And, honestly, sometimes you haven't even processed the emotions because you were just going through all of the movements when- Absolutely something like that happens. Absolutely. And yeah, so first I just wanna just give you a big hug and say thank you for sharing that, because I can't imagine at 15 what it would feel like to lose a sibling. Mm-hmm. And then to not know what to do, because I was never really taught how to deal with grief. Right. And then to have parents that you don't want to upset anymore. You already know their life is shattered. So then you're walking on eggshells, Just imagining it all in my body, it just like, oof. I, yeah, it is, it's just so big. Yeah. It's so interesting. I'm currently writing a memoir, and I'm starting at the day my brother died. And it's so interesting going back through. I actually found my college papers and stuff, so I'm reading through a bunch of stuff, and I wrote a lot. And I, I went to school for writing. So I wrote a lot about my life once I got to college, which was great, 'cause that started actually my process of really, what did I go through, you know? Yeah. And but just a couple days ago, I think it was, um, I found a paper that talked about other f- dynamics that were happening in my family at the time before my brother died. I was like, "Oh, my gosh." So I was already experiencing that, unsettling thing before my brother died. So no wonder, it was just, one thing on top of another. And yeah, at 15 you're not... Your brain actually isn't capable- No of handling that kind of stuff. I actually just listened to another podcast that talked about that, and I just got a book about it, that your brain's just, it's not f- formed. The f- prefrontal cortex isn't fully formed yet, like, until you're in your 20s. Like- Yeah so you can't even process the stuff. Um, which was kind of a, "Oh, thank you." Like, I'm not, damaged and crazy or anything like that. I just literally a normal human being that couldn't process- Mm-hmm at the time, and so need to do it later. That's it. There's no shame in that. Yeah. I love that you're writing about this, and it's interesting that you're finding more- Mm We often associate grief with dying, which is a lot about, I talk about it on my podcast with losing children, I talk about it with losing my own grandparents and how we hadn't processed it. And I was like, wow, It doesn't always hit right away. Mm-mm. So I do wanna ask you this. When you were talking about, shoving it down- Was there a moment that you had a breakthrough or something when you were like, "Things gotta change," or that you realized, like, "There's so much in me that it's coming to the surface"? I think in looking through some of these, notes and papers and stuff I did when I was younger, I think I had moments of, like, I wanted more for myself than I was giving myself. Um, so Like college was really good for me. It gave me different perspectives and things. It's funny because my relationships, I still made the worst decisions in my relationships. So I honestly didn't come to it until, and make new decisions until my mid-40s. So it took me a long time. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanna give pr- people permission to rehear what she just said, is that, this happened when she was 15. Yeah, it took 30 years. And, yeah. I think so many people associate it or think th- there's like this thing that goes around where people are like, "She should be over that," and I'm like, "No, we're breaking that. We're done saying that." Yeah. You get to feel anytime you wanna feel, and if it's a year later, 30 years later, like you get to feel all the feelings without any freaking judgment. Yeah. Can I tell you a story about that? Yes, please. So what I did after my brother died was I met my first boyfriend two months later. So instead of my world revolving around my brother, it started revolving around this boyfriend. Oh, wow. And so that's the pattern that I then, you know, fell into. Yeah. Um, but it was probably about a year later, after starting dating him, and, I was a musician in school, and he was also a musician. But he was, like, a rock band musician that didn't know how to read music, and I was the grew up playing the piano 'cause my mom was a piano teacher kind of musician, right? And I didn't know how to improvise. So we were, like, from different worlds, but... And I was sitting, we were at my house. My parents weren't there, and we were at my house, and I was showing him Moonlight Sonata on the piano, which is one of my favorite songs. And I'm, so I'm showing him, on the keyboard where the notes are and on the staff on the sheet music, you know- Yeah what to look at. And there was a moment where I thought I heard something, and I jumped up from the piano bench and I said, "Eric." Like I thought I heard, 'cause I was so used to listening, right, for him like falling into a wall and running to make sure he's okay. And it was like, you know, a second of jumping up, saying his name, and then going, "Oh," right? Mm-hmm. And I sat back down and I turned to my boyfriend and I'm like, "I thought I heard Eric." And I, you know, I have tears running down my face. Yeah. And he looks at me like I have three heads. And He literally says, "I don't understand. It's been over a year." Mm-hmm. And I honestly think that that is one of the key moments for me where I decided to shut down. I decided to not share my feelings, not share any thoughts that could possibly be controversial- Yeah because I was so desperate to not lose the connection with him- Mm-hmm right, that I have to show up in an acceptable manner. Yeah. My husband now totally gets it, you know? He's lost his dad, many years ago, and he's like, "Yeah, I still have days when it just, for whatever reason, pops into my head, and I get emotional." He totally gets it. Yeah. But we believe the people who are in front of us, the people that we care about, the people we don't wanna lose connection with- Yeah Especially when we're young, right? We just think- Oh, yeah anybody older than us knows everything, you know? So, um- Right which is not true, obviously. I can only imagine, you're young and you're dating, right? And you're like, I haven't done this before." You were a caretaker- Mm-hmm in many ways. And so now you're dating and finding your own life, and to have someone- Not validate your feelings and just be like, What?" Like, and just look at you like you're crazy. That is, one of the hardest things Do you feel like you kind of dated him because you were like, "I need somebody"? Yes. Okay. That's what I- 100, 100% I didn't wanna project on you. But I didn't wanna project that on you. Yes. But I kinda got that sense of like, Now I have somebody else." Yes. It also got me out of the house. Yeah. Because I still, don't have a car, don't have a license. Mm-hmm. And, my parents are there in their grief. Yeah. And he was two years older than I was, so he had a car. He had a family that was completely different than mine, yeah. So absolutely, that was definitely my escape route at the time. Yeah. And I also didn't know how to think about just my own joy anymore, because I was so in that pattern of looking to someone else that yeah, I really didn't know how to just like, "Okay, well, I'm just gonna be happy on my own." I did not know how to do that at the time. Yeah. I, I mean, that's a huge thing anyway- Yes. of its own. But to go with your emotions and to find this person, and then be like, "Oh, I can't say these things, and I have to be somebody completely different to still connect with him." Yeah. So I wasn't allowed to have my grief. Yeah. I wasn't allowed to express it. So if I was gonna feel anything, I was gonna have to do it by myself. Yeah. Not with anyone else's support. That's how I felt at the time. Yeah. Yeah, and you don't wanna open your heart up to somebody, who doesn't have a clue about it or is like, "I don't understand." Mm-hmm. Be- because you can't force them to understand. No. You can tell them the journey, and they can decide if they wanna have compassion and hold space for you, which is what we hope everybody does, and why we're bringing more awareness. But you can't force that. No, you can't. And that's, what we were saying earlier about having safe people to talk to. Mm-hmm. Thankfully, as we get older, we learn how to judge that. We learn, like, who is safe to talk to. Um, you know, when you're younger, you have l- more limited options, and y- you don't have that sensitivity to it, I don't think. Yeah. I also love that you said that you, you thought you heard your brother, because- As I've been interviewing people, someone said to me, "Can I say something that might be a little out there?" And they say that they were like, I believe that I can talk to the, to those who have passed." Yeah. "That we're still connected, that I can hear things, and that we can still have a conversation." Mm-hmm. And I said, "That's not weird at all." Yeah. But yet somewhere in our world we've made that weird that someone who is now in heaven, is what I believe heaven- Mm-hmm whatever y- you believe, that we can't have a connection or conversation. We talk to our animals and they're not speaking back. Right. I mean, just to say in a different way, like my cat might meow, but she's not saying it back. And some people talk to God, universe, whatever source, whatever you wanna call it. Right. But to say that you can't connect with your brother and that he still doesn't give you signs- Yeah and I just think it's an a- it's an awareness thing, and probably maybe an even an age thing of that happened young and... So how do you feel about that now? Well, it's interesting. I wish I had more of a feeling of connection with my brother- Mm-hmm than I do, and I think I don't really feel that because of how shut down I was for so long. I am open to that changing. Um, b- and the reason that I do believe in it is because when my dad passed away in 2019, which is actually where my book's gonna end, It was a completely different experience, and for many reasons. And I do connect with my dad. So like if I see a red-tailed hawk or really any kind of hawk, you know, I And I've had moments where I'm like, he's telling me things. Yeah. You know? And I'm not hearing it with my ears, but I am, I'm internally I'm hearing it, and it's my dad, you know? Yeah. And it's my dad as a much wiser spirit- Yeah than he was in human form. Yeah. Which is awesome. Yeah. I love that. And I just wanna normalize that, that people see all different. Some people hear, some people smell, And that's also when the feelings can come up. Yes. Absolutely. Right, because it reminds you of that love. Mm-hmm. Right? You feel it again. Yeah. Yeah. Because if like we're talking about my brother, it's, you know, over 30 years ago, well, I'm not thinking about it all the time. Yeah. But if I had that kind of experience like that where I'm reminded and I feel that love again, yes, the grief's gonna come back because the love's there. Yeah. You know? It's always there, it's just how close to the surface is it? Yeah. As you've grown and experienced life, you said you lost your dad as well are you comfortable talking about that? Sure. Yeah, yeah. And I can tell you, like, some of the difference that I just mentioned. Yeah. So when my brother died, I was in high school. Yeah. And I was at high school. So I was actually taking my final exams. And so by the time my parents came and got me from school, the rest of my siblings had already known for a couple hours. They were all already gathered at our house. So I walked into, and the, they're already back to normalizing. They're already eating pizza and laughing when I walked in the door So I felt like I was from another planet, or they were from another planet, because I di- like, I didn't know how to deal with that. Right. You know? I didn't... And I also didn't realize that they'd been there for hours. You know what I mean? Like, I had none- Yeah of that context. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I just went to my room. So I, from the very beginning, started... This was a, this was a solo journey. Yeah. And so when my dad passed away, we were actually almost all of us there for his passing. So he was at a rehab facility, got a call, went there. So I was there for the whole thing. Yeah. And I saw how quickly you go from the tears at their passing to, "Oh, we have arrangements to make, and we need to eat." And you know, it, it quickly goes. I mean, l- it, it's- Yeah it is like an hour or two, and you're moving on to the things you need to do. And so me being there for that, um, really made me understand. I mean, I literally remember that day, at the end of that day, going, "Oh my gosh, I get this now." And it was l- Mm it was exactly 33 and a half years from my brother's death. Wow. June 10th, '88 to December 10th of, 2018. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, "I understand it." Like, I get it. It's so normal. And I just came in at that time when they were back to eating and laughing. But for that 30 years, I felt very like an outsider in my family. Hmm. And so it's, it's so interesting. Like, very subtle things like that can make a huge difference. And it's nothing to, you know, to judge or feel bad about. It's just being aware that's a big difference, you know? Yeah. And I stood up at my dad's funeral service and spoke, and I was the only one that did that out of our family. And you know, th- we can go into a whole nother topic about that, but it was- It was actually like a really beautiful experience. Mm-hmm. And I know it's different circumstances, right? My dad was older and, you know. Right. Um, but to be able to express my love and my appreciation for my dad meant so much to me. And, and we had a good relationship in the end, so I didn't have any regrets. So that also made it a more, beautiful experience. Yeah. Shout-out to you for being able to stand up and talk. I always look at people and I always think, "I can do that," and then I'm like, "Nope, I don't think I can." I don't think I can. And that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's an amazing experience that you had a way of almost closure, to be able to verbalize on that one. And I'm so glad that you shared both of these, because it just shows that no one- No one passes away the same way. No one. Mm-mm. We're all at different phases of our life when it happens. Mm-hmm. You can't expect the same thing with every single thing you go through with grief or any feelings. And so- Sharing them really just shows the listeners, I hope you listeners can feel this, that It's just, I don't even have the words to say because it's so powerful that you got to see it in a different way, and that's what kind of gave you the experience. And it's also heartbreaking that you had to had all that time where you felt so alone. Mm. That you didn't know because you didn't realize people have already, "Oh, they've already been here. They've already done this, and this is what our family does, or this is what we do." And so this is what they'd already been through. And so I'm glad that you got that experience. Mm-hmm. Because it's almost like a full circle moment of, like, the aha. It absolutely was. I am so grateful for it. It, that really did heal, me at a level- Yeah that, yeah, I wasn't expecting. And I'd also like to point out what you were just saying about we never experience grief the same way, and we shouldn't expect ourselves to. Yeah. So there should be no judgment- Yeah about how we experience any situation really. Right, right. Um, you know, and that's something that has been a really big topic and issue in my life is self-judgment, and I think a lot of people can relate to that. And it affects every aspect of your life. But, you know, when you're talking about grief, I mean, it is so, it can be so overwhelming. It's such a tender place to be when you're grieving, and I would invite people to just have so much grace for yourself. Like, and not e- have any expectations because you don't know. You have- Yeah no way of knowing how that's gonna go. Mm-hmm. So you just let it. Just let the feelings flow, get whatever support feels good to you, and do not judge yourself. Yeah. That's some very good advice right there, and I think that's the biggest thing, is the judgment That we think things are always supposed to go one way. And it's interesting that we may say that about grief, but how many people do you say joy only comes in this form? It doesn't. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. But then when it comes to, like, sharing a different emotion, it doesn't go both ways, and so that's what it's... And then we put the pressure on ourselves. Yes. And we carry it with ourselves, and that's probably one of the hardest things is feeling so alone in this world after we've experienced something. And yours was big. You, every- I mean, everybody's is big. I don't wanna- Yeah to put any... Like, everybody's is at, I believe everybody's at the same level. Whether it's a relationship, you've a divorce, there are several things that could have happened in your life, and to someone, you're looking at them and like, you know, that's where we wanna lose the judgment of, like, you lost your job, you lost this, or, part of mine is an illness. I, you know, a disease in my body that I went through, and carrying the grief of that. We just have to know that there's no judgment on any of it, and we all carry it differently. And grief is grief. There's no right or wrong way, and there's no bigger or better. Like, it's all one level. Yep, there's no hierarchy. I agree. Yes. It's just Let's just normalize, like- It's just grief. Yeah. It's just grief. It can be your pet. Yes. It can be your parent. It can be a job. It can be an illness. Yes. It can be anything. Yeah. It doesn't matter, 'cause the feeling is still the same. Right. And- Right? You have that loss. You have the love that you feel like you can't express anymore. Regardless of what it is. Yeah. Our brains don't, and our bodies don't know the difference. Right. Doesn't matter. Yeah. There's just, I could talk about this forever because there's so much to every single bit of it, and just how we carry it. After your dad passed away, do you think you were able to express yourself more and start living life differently? Yes, I do. Okay. I, part of it was I was on a self-development journey by then, so I was coming more into who I actually am, you know, and not who I was- Mm-hmm being for everybody else. Yeah. So it was good timing. And, um, but it was actually very early on in my personal development. So it's interesting, but I think it really helped me because in that instance I was able to know, like I knew like 100% that I was gonna stand up and say something about my dad, and I wrote it out. Like, I didn't just get up and talk, I wrote the thing and read it. Um, because it was important to me. For whatever reason- Mm-hmm it was really important to me. And I did it even knowing, like... 'Cause previously I would've been thinking, "Well, I don't wanna show up anybody else in my family by writing this nice thing." And, you know, and I even, I remember when I sat down after I spoke, my brother, I was sitting next to one of my brothers, and he's like, "Well, I'm not going after that." And that is, would've been my concern, right? That I, that they wouldn't say anything because it couldn't compare. But I knew at that point, I'm like, "This is not a performance. This is not like, I'm not up there for me. I'm there for my dad." Yeah. Right? I'm just speaking truth about my dad. It's got nothing to do with me. Yeah. I'm not looking for kudos, you know? Yeah. And so his comment, like, made me sad in case he had wanted to say something, but I no longer took that on. That's powerful. And that was a big step for me. Yeah. Because then I was more and more in my own power for, okay, this is, this is me. This is what I believe in, this is what I stand for. And so, I mean, it took time, but it was definitely a turning point for me, and it's still one of my favorite, like, my proudest, uh, moments for sure. Yeah. I don't know if I started off by saying this, is that we met in communities, and we do a lot of healing work together. Yeah. And that's, I think, something that everybody should have the opportunity to do because we don't realize how much we've shoved down in our life from all of the feelings- Yeah and all of life, and where things at a young age have, someone has said or done or has literally just stopped our life or stopped us from speaking the truth and being us and, you know, not to, being able to take that mask off and be who we really are. Yeah. I, it's... Honestly, I so agree with that 100%. Like, unless you actually decide to do this kind of work and delve in and explore and be curious about your own experience- Yeah there's so much you're unaware of, right? And maybe you live a fine life. Right. You know? Maybe you do. And I'm sure there are some people that probably do. But I don't want a fine life, right? I wanna freaking love my life. Yes. And for me, anyway, I can't speak for everybody else, but for me, that has taken a lot of excavating, a lot of, like, okay, what do I believe? Why do I believe that? Is that really what I wanna believe? You know? Yeah. And just learning about, you know, who I am and what I actually enjoy and what I don't stand for, right? And, and all- Right those things. It's so important, I think, to then just... 'Cause then you can just be like, "Hey, I know who I am. I know what I believe." Yeah. "I know what I want my life to look like, and I'm gonna, that's what I'm gonna intentionally, work on." Because otherwise, I feel like you're just, like, reacting to the world around you, and that's not very fulfilling. That's why people are like, "I'm bored." I haven't been bored in... I don't know. I don't know if I've ever been bored. You know? Like- Yeah but, I am so, like, in love with life. Like, I, I'm so glad I'm here, and I wanna get the most out of it I can. And, like, unless you... To me, if I had not done this work, I would still be at the computer doing other people's work- you know, on the hamster wheel, exhausted and resentful. And I don't live that way anymore. And I don't want anyone else to either. Yeah. I wanna celebrate you for just doing the work that's, we're all doing. We're doing it together, and I'm so lucky to be doing this kind of work. Even though we've had different experiences, we're still doing the work, and as I said, everybody should do it. And I love that you said that you don't want anybody else to, because that's what life is truly about. Living. Yeah. And we don't know sometimes that we're not living. Mm-hmm. And when people out there s- have said to me, like, "Oh, well, my life's uneventful," and it's like, wow. Like, you've lived a really blessed life, because I don't know many people, or you just have, like, zeroed it out of your brain- Hmm and pushed or shoved it down so far that you just, you're calling your best life something different than what we are like, "No, I wanna stop and smell the roses." Yeah. I wanna wake up and I wanna live for today and see every beautiful moment that's out there. Yeah. You know, you, you're saying that about, I've lived an uneventful life. I think that's so interesting, because to me that screams I'm not feeling it. Yeah. Right? And that means you're not feeling the good or the bad. And I use those terms very loosely. Right. You're just- Like, I don't really mean good or bad. You're, right, you're just coasting along there on a flat line. Yep. And I think some people think that that is all there is. Yeah. That's the only possibility. And I think, this is my current theory, is, is people like us who have experienced the heartbreak, the grief of certain events- Yeah we felt that, right? Even if we didn't let ourselves do the healthy grieving and everything- Yeah we still felt the pain. Yeah. And what that allows us to do is actually feel the joy. Yeah. We, it is a full spectrum of emotions, and I believe that we're meant to actually feel all of them, right? So when we avoid what feels hard, then we deny ourselves what feels delicious. Yeah. And that makes me sad- Mm-hmm if people aren't allowing themselves that. Yes. It's what life is, right? And I just wanna bring so much awareness to all of this because it's really, I think this is something they should teach at a young age. Mm-hmm. That's truly what I believe. Not that you're going to understand it, but that we get to feel every emotion and every feeling. Because if I would've learned that when I was younger, when my grandfather died, I didn't see my dad cry. When his brother passed away, I didn't see my dad cry. It was like the tough, be tough, be be strong. Like- Yeah and so that's what I thought life was. Like- Yeah okay, you're supposed to be tough and be strong, and here I'm young and, like, crying. And like, wait, am I not supposed to be crying? Am I not supposed to be? Yeah. And so we're not taught that everybody... And I think there's a generation that- Oh, for sure like, my dad's generation is like- Yes you have to be tough. You're strong. You don't share those emotions. Yeah. And now we're here to undo that. Yeah, I agree, and I think it's not so much... It is teaching the kids, but it's we need adults to teach the kids, right? Yes. So it- I think this is the generation that we've started this happening, where we're like, "Hey, it is okay to have feelings." Yeah. You just need to express them in an acceptable manner, right? Yes. You don't punch the next kid. You get a pillow or whatever, but, that requires parents, family members, teachers- Yeah all of th- that to be on the same page, and, we're not there yet, but I do have good feelings about where we're headed, that more and more people are realizing, like, "Hey, there's this thing called the nervous system, you know? And if you don't take care of it, you're probably gonna do some stuff that's not good," you know? Yeah. Like, it's not healthy. And yes, feelings, if you don't let 'em out, they're gonna eat away inside you. It's gonna be things that it's not gonna be good for you. It's not gonna be good for your relationships. It's not gonna be good for your body. Like, you gotta express them somehow, and it shouldn't be, like, shoving them down or hitting the next kid or, God forbid, shooting up the school. Yeah. Right? But I mean, personally, that's why I believe that stuff happens- Yeah because we don't know how to take care of our emotions. We don't know how to, in a healthy way, manage our emotions. Mm-hmm. That doesn't mean not having them. Yes. Yeah. That's what this is all about, is how can we communicate with them and get them to see that? And because it's happening younger and younger. Yeah. And it's heartbreaking to listen to and then hear about. And I don't watch the news, just to be honest, but- I don't either um, but- But we still hear about them. But you still are, we're still aware. Yes. We're still aware of what's going on in the world. And so to see that it's getting younger and younger just shows that we're not, we're lacking somewhere, and it does have to start at home. It can't be as, just the school's job- Yeah or whatever, because they have to be in a family, in a space where they feel safe. Yes. And if the parents don't feel safe, the children are not gonna feel safe. Yeah. And that's the same thing with joy. If you don't know how to live whatever joy feels like in your body, and you've never been in ro- like, that hasn't been experienced or you haven't had a role model that's like, "Oh, she's happy, and she, this can be a life you choose"- Yeah like, you don't know how to live that either if you haven't seen it or witnessed it. Absolutely. You don't know it exists. Yeah. Yeah. That possibility's there, but you don't know it. Yeah. You know? So yeah, I think like the work, a lot of what we do is actually just expanding our awareness of what's possible, yeah. And then you get to choose. Like, "Oh, what would I like my life to be?" I- isn't it fun though? It is fun. Yeah. That we get the power to choose and to know, like I feel like that's freedom itself just saying that. Yeah. I get the power to choose if I wanna have that delicious piece of chocolate over there. Yeah. Or go look at the sunset, or whatever brings you joy in your life, fulfillment, whatever word you wanna use. That's a good life. And we all have choice, right? Yes. But it's realizing that. Mm-hmm. Because when you're in that trap of, "Well, this is just how my life is, and this is what I have to do in order to stay alive," and this, you know, blah, blah, blah. All the have tos. Yeah. And, and I understand, like it's a really big shift to make- Mm-hmm you know, when that's all you've known. But oh my goodness, when you get to the other side and you realize you really can do anything you want with your life. Yeah. This was my personal journey. As long as you don't care too much about what everybody else thinks about it. Yeah. Right? You gotta decide for you. Yeah. Yes. And also I wanna add this, because as- I shared yesterday about being hard on my own self, judging my own self. And so, like, it's not a straight line life. No. So even as we're saying we feel so much joy, if you said in an hour you were crying on the floor, and I'd be like, "Yeah, are you okay? How could I support you?" Right. Or, "Can I just be here and hold space for you?" Because it doesn't work like it's all one or all the other, and they all exist at the same time. It's po- Absolutely. I believe that it's possible that we can be sad, and, have grief, and also have happiness at the same time. Absolutely. I don't want anybody to be like, "Oh, my goodness, they're living this delusional life." No. We're real humans that are... I just spoke it last night, that I was caught in the hustle of, in my, you know, self-doubt. Ev- all the things were going through my mind. And the good thing is now that I have tools to be able to connect with beautiful humans, and tools to work myself through those things. Right. But I'm also able to vocalize them in a safe space. Yes. So important. So it's so important, yes. You've done so much, and I could go on in this conversation forever with you, I wanna ask you two questions. I wanna break it up. What would you say to, like, the young kid? Mm. The young kid who's grieving? Yeah I would say Whatever you're feeling is completely normal And please allow yourself to feel it Thank you. What would you say to, as you've been through this journey, an older version of you? I'd probably say the same thing. That's what I was wondering if... That's why I asked. We're, I think we're even more likely to judge ourselves and th- you know, do all the, the thinking and the overthinking about, why am I feeling this way?" And, you know, "Well, I shouldn't do this, and I don't wanna burden that person," and all this thing, right? That, that, that a kid might not do. Mm-hmm. But an adult would. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. I always wanna end these on a happy note. Is there a memory That you could wrap up with that you get to hold in your heart う ん。 Well, since I don't have a ton of memories about my brother that are happy, yet, they're still... They're there. But, One of my happy memories with my dad, um, he was a truck driver, and, um, so he had a big Peterbilt and 18-wheeler, and he had a t- trailer of water to fill swimming pools. And sometimes during the summer I would go with him, and I could climb up on the top of the trailer and watch as the water from the fire hydrant, went through the hose and went into the trailer. And, you know, I'm up high and I could see everything, and even riding in the, cab of the Peterbilt, 'cause you're s- you're super high, and I'm a little kid. And like, this is really cool, you know? Um, and plus you feel like you're the king of the road when you're in a big truck like that. And, um, yeah, I just remember I loved that time with my dad, and we would go and we'd get these great tuna salad sandwiches and stuff, and it was just, it was just joyful. It was very innocent and joyful. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. If you could leave them with something to go do, or if they're s- experiencing this, what would be some advice? I would say if you don't have someone safe to talk to immediately, find someone. But in the meantime, I do write a lot, and, I find it very helpful to just... A- and you're not trying to produce anything, you're just writing down your thoughts and feelings, and it really helps you get clarity. And it just gets 'em out, when your thoughts and your feelings are just in your body and in your head, they just keep swirling, right? Mm-hmm. And it's like you, you grab one, and then you grab another that contradicts the last one, and it's very confusing in there. It's so confusing. So I find when I write things down, like, it'll start out like it's all confusing and there's all these different things going on, but it's like the more you write, the more you get to like, oh, oh, right? It brings clarity. And to me, that brings a sense of peace. So yeah, if you don't have someone to talk to immediately and you're feeling all the feels, um, one, also screaming in a pillow really is helpful. Just getting... You know, vocalizing, just like that. You... No one, you know... It doesn't need to be words. No one needs to hear you. Vocalize it and write about it. Yeah. Thank you so much. Where can my listeners find you at? I mean, this is just a tiny bit of Carmen, you guys. And she is this big, beautiful light, and It's just so cool to watch you, like, really step into your power- Aw. Thank you, Katie and see it, and I feel your beautiful energy. So where can they find you at? And I'll put it in the show notes as well. Okay. Sure. The easiest thing to do is just my name, Carmen c-A-R-M-E-N W-A-L-S-H.com, and that's my links. That's all my links. I am currently doing a Substack article about once a week, and there we cover a wide variety of topics. And I'm working on my book, so that'll be a while yet. But Substack, and then you can find my Instagram and Facebook and all through there, that same link. Yeah. Thank you. I just wanna thank you from the bottom of my heart for just coming on and being authentically you and telling your honest story of what you've been through. And we just barely touched on- from being 15 to then, you know, 30 and a half years later. Mm-hmm. Um, all the things you've experienced in your life, and this beautiful life that you're living now. And if you guys see her, she's... her face is glowing, 'cause she's just magic. But also giving every listener, the permission to feel- Yeah and to know they're not alone. Because I think those are two of the things that you said that really stuck out, that it's okay to go cry, and it's okay to go scream in a pillow, and we're going to normalize those things. That it's okay to do all of that and feel your feelings. Absolutely. I just wanna say thank you so much for sharing, just a little portion of your journey with us here today, and that, grief can be joy, too. Yeah. It can be gratitude that you experienced that kind of love. Would you re-quote for us what you said about love? I- if you feel grief, it means you felt deep love. Deep grief means you felt deep love. Yeah. I wanted to end on that, because I thought that was so powerful, and I just wanna thank you so much. Thank you, Casey. It was a pleasure being here. Thank you. I will leave all of Carmen's information in the show notes, and I hope you guys go follow her, because she is just a beautiful magical person, and just go check her out. She has so much beautiful light and energy in her, and so much to share, and I can't wait to read her book when it comes out. Thank you for tuning in to another episode. I hope today's story inspired you to embrace your own journey of growth and change. Remember, transformation isn't always easy, but it's always worth it. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review. If you found something that sparked you in this episode and may spark a friend, I encourage you to go share it with them. If you have your own story you would like to share, I would love to hear it, so please reach out to me. Until next time, friends, go have some fun and let those sparks fly.