E82. How to Be Visible, Unshakeable & AI-Ready Online With Renee Andrews From Salon Society

Renee Andrews has seen the behind the scenes of over 120 salons. She's managed social media accounts, watched what converts and what doesn't and built her own business to the point where she was flown to Budapest to keynote for Kevin Murphy with under 4,000 followers.

Renee is the founder of Salon Society and one of the most practical, data-backed social media educators in the beauty industry. In this episode, she brings the kind of clarity that most salon owners desperately need but rarely get, and she does it with warmth, zero fluff, and a lot of real talk.

We cover:

• Why vanity metrics are ruining your marketing mindset, and what to track instead
• The one question to ask every new client that will tell you exactly where your bookings are coming from
• Why AI search is already sending clients to salons, and how to make sure yours is one of them
• How to make content that attracts your ideal client without reinventing the wheel every week
• Why fully booked salons still need to keep showing up online
• How Renee turned a publicly difficult moment into one of the most defining chapters of her business journey, and what emotional resilience actually looks like for a business owner

Renee is the kind of guest who makes you want to open your booking system and your notes app at the same time. This episode is equal parts strategy and soul.

Find Renee at @salonsocietyaus on Instagram or on her website .

Are you looking to level up your salon in 2026? Every beauty business owner needs Beauty Business Foundation, this is the KEY areas you need to have a successful beauty business. Want to learn more? 

 https://beautybusinessschool.com.au/beauty-business-foundations/ 

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Transcript

Welcome to the Beauty Business School podcast. Beauty Business School is proving beauty therapy is more than just a hobby. We're your new beauty besties, your partners in crime, your ride-and-die crew with a sprinkle of Regina George's confidence but none of the drama. Picture us as your personal cheerleaders, the BFFs you've always wished for as we tackle the beauty industry together. Beauty training taught you how to be really good at treatments, and Beauty Business School is here to teach you how to attract your dream clients by creating a beauty business that stands out in a busy industry, navigates salon owner life, and talks about the mindset shifts that you need to thrive in the beauty industry. It's time to become the CEO everyone is trying to marry. Let's get into the podcast with me, your host, Kimberley Haworth. Welcome back to the Beauty Business School podcast. I'm Kimberley Haworth, and I am very excited to have Renee Andrews from Salon Society with me today. Welcome. Thank you, my love. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, it is my pleasure. We got to meet in person at the Timely event, and I loved you from day one. Yeah, that was so nice. We had such an incredible morning of getting ourselves glammed up, and that was just so much fun. On your birthday, so yeah, it was a vibe. It was a very big vibe. It was. It was, um, not that I haven't done that before, but you messaged me and you're like, "Hey, let's like get ready together. Let's get our makeup done." And I was like, "Oh, I love this." So by the time we got down and actually were doing our presentations, we'd already got to know each other, and it was really nice. Yeah, I just think it's so nice to do as well. Like, it's just that chance to connect and also just to settle those nerves in the morning. And yeah, it was lovely. It was really nice. So tell me a little bit about yourself. Who are you? What do you do? What's your background in the beauty industry? Yes. Oh my gosh, that's such a long-winded, uh, question, isn't it? So I was, I started my hairdressing career as a mature age apprentice. I was 19 years of age, and I, my mom always said I would be a hairdresser, and I was like, "No, no, no. You know, you always go against your mama." Um, and then when I became it, she was like, "I told you." So I think for me, hairdressing was always such a passion because I loved the people. I love the humans. I love connecting. Unfortunately, really early on in my career, I had a really bad car accident, and so I had a tear down my lower part of my spine, which I always knew deep down that it would mean that I would not be able to have a very long career in hairdressing. So, uh, unfortunately, that, that was just part of, you know, what had happened. So what I did was in 2010, I moved over to Toronto, Canada, and I went to just go and explore and travel, and I landed in a really beautiful little boutique hair salon in Stoville, which is like a very small town an hour north of Toronto. And I landed in such a beautiful salon that was very education-led, education-focused, and I was really blessed to be really trained amazingly there. I was brought in like I was family. And when I landed there, my boss said to me, "Well, you're an Aussie, so you're going to know the brand that we stock, which is Kevin Murphy." And I was like, "I've never heard of Kevin Murphy." And he's like, "You've literally come from Australia. What do you mean you haven't heard of him? He's Australian." I was like, "I've never heard of him." And so anyway, I started working with the product and absolutely fell in love with it. And they asked me back then, they were doing a program called the Gold Key Educator Program, which was basically where over in North America, they do things differently where when you are a sales rep, usually in Australia, you would go in and train your staff. But over in North America, they had like a whole education team that go and do the actual training. So I was trained up by them to, to go and do those trainings, which honestly, I absolutely fell in love with. Um, I just knew from that moment that education was where I always wanted to kind of be. Um, and I was so fortunate that I didn't have to leave the hairdressing industry, which was something I didn't want to have to do. Um, so yeah, so I moved back to Australia in 2013 and tried to go back into a salon, and I was like, "I don't, I don't, I can't do this. Like, I, I need to be educating. I need to be out and about." And that's where I sort of did the massive pivot, sort of 18 years on the salon floor and moved across into becoming a, uh, business consultant for Kevin Murphy. And it was really during that time that I fell in love with social media because that was, you know, Instagram before we had Reels. And it was, it was at the time. Which was easy. It was like, put up a cute post and you'd get, you know, you'd get so much engagement. And, you know, for me, I had the entire territory in WA where I was managing, you know, over 120 salons. Um, they were on my accounts from traveling really far. And I just knew that I needed to be able to reach more salons, but I couldn't do any more on the road. And that's where I really dived into the whole social media world. And that was in 2013. So I just had this passion for being able to jump on, share content. I was documenting all the time when I'd go in salon and I would do trainings and I would educate. And I just loved it. And truth be told, it's actually where I started to just build a presence where I had salons that would be reaching out and going, "Hey, um, you know, can we get some Kevin Murphy?" So that was where my whole sort of social media journey began. And it was so organic. Um, and it just came from a place of just, I love this because I get to connect with people and I get got to keep my finger on the pulse as well with my clients. When I left the salon or I didn't get to them that month, I'd be able to jump on, see what they were doing and be like, "Hey guys, I've missed you this month," and keep that connection going as, as a, um, business consultant. Yeah, I love that. I love how it's this natural flow, right? Like so many times we end up in these careers we love by starting with one thing, then the next thing, then the next thing. And it's just kind of like fallen into your lap, but you're also like, "I love it. It's amazing." It was exactly that. And I think when I reflect on, you know, that time, it was for me, it was like all about the relationship building and the connections. And, you know, I was so proud of what I built with the Kevin Murphy brand when I, um, you know, in the five years that I was a part of it. And, and for me, it was never about the sales. It was always about, as hairdressers, I think sometimes we're very guilty of not truly sitting with our client and, and understanding what their needs are. Like retail for me was such a natural flow as a stylist because I was always like, "How can I be of service to my client? What are they telling me they're struggling with? And then how can I help them through my knowledge that I have?" And it was the little things. It was the, "Don't forget to double shampoo your hair, otherwise that's why you're getting greasy." It was the, "Make sure you only put the conditioner on your mid-lengths and ends and comb it through." And they'd be like, "What?" So it's like, I think we just forget the simple things that you do know as a hairdresser to pass that, that knowledge on to our clients and, and to empower them. And I think for me, when I really look back, that's what I really, like, I loved so much about that sort of journey. Um, so yeah, it was incredible. So, but that's also then what led me to, to create Salon Society was I would meet with salon owners every day and I'd say, you know, like, "What can I do to support you more?" And it would be train my staff to sell more retail. It would be all those things. But a trend started coming up where they would sort of say, "Renee, I know I've got to get into this social media thing, but like, I just don't like it. And I really just, it's just such a, it was such a massive issue for salon owners back then in 2000." Still. It's still such an issue. And it was easy back then. It was easy back then. So, you know, it's, um, it was one of those things where I sort of started listening and going, "Hang on a minute. I'm really hearing a pattern." And so then I actually had clients start saying to me, "Do you think that you would like, would you help me with my social media?" And in the back of my mind, I always knew that when I wanted to have my babies, that I knew that I wanted to, I wouldn't be able to do that job and do it really well. And I'm a big believer in if I cannot do something really well, I will not put my name to it anymore. And so for me, it was very much around, you know, I knew that I would have to exit the brand. I knew that I couldn't continue doing what I was doing. And a big part of that meant that I'd have to pivot. And so yeah, I started taking on my, um, my Kevin Murphy accounts as social media clients. And that just sort of created this snowball effect because they already trusted me with the job I did with the brand. So it was this natural evolution and progression into, into building the brand that I have now. I love that. And that's such a, like, great metaphor for even like salon, right? Like if you've got something in your salon, if they already trust you, they're going to trust you with something else. So yeah, I was like, that's just our industry in a nice little summarize there. I think it's pretty incredible that it's just been this, like, it's almost like the right thing at the right time for the right people. And because you already have that credibility and trust, it's just evolved into something pretty amazing for you. Yeah, it's, it's been, yeah. And I think again, you can sort of look at it in so many angles, but I look at it and go, my biggest thing that I know to be true for myself is that, like, I am for my humans. Like I, I will go to the ends of the earth for them. And I, I did that and I've always done that. And I think that's, that's what I love about that hairdressing, that the service industry, you know, as hair and beauty is like, we, that's what we do. We give to our clients. And, um, yeah, I think that's, that's the key to building a strong clientele, in my opinion. I think, you know, a lot of the time people are like, "Oh, you've got to be the best." But I know firsthand salon owners that have got the best technical skilled hairdressers, but the ones that they expect to build a strong clientele don't necessarily because at the core, humans come because you are an amazing human and you make them feel seen. You make them feel valued. And I think that's the greatest thing that we can really do in our, in our industry. So yeah. And I feel like so many of us get into this industry because of that. Like I had a one-on-one coaching call before this podcast and I said, "All right, what's one thing that's happened in the last week that you're so grateful for?" She goes, "Oh, my last client I just did. I did the best browse." And I was like, "That's, that's it." She's like, "That, that is a highlight." Like I, I think what we give to people and how we see them react to it is why we are in this industry. Absolutely. Like we're people pleasers. Let's be honest. Inherently, you just put all the people pleasers into the beauty industry. Pretty much, I feel. Yeah. And I think at the end of the day, that's not a bad thing. I think like you kind of need to care. There's a line, obviously, like we're not performative, but it's like we, we just have a genuine care for the people that sit in our chair. Because, you know, it is such a vulnerable thing for a new client. There's a real anxiety around a new client to, to get them in the door, you know? And so I think, you know, that they're giving us that trust, um, straight up. And so yeah, I think having that level of care, I think it really puts you in a great position to have a strong clientele. And I think that's, that's very underestimated, um, as someone that is a social media educator. And I'm a bit of a, I'm a bit of a controversial social media educator because although I, although I recognize and understand that visibility is important, I think what we need to be mindful of is that we do not forget that the clients that we already have in our chair to make sure that we are giving them an incredible level of customer service because that, you know, you can keep marketing and, and churning out more to get more. But if you cannot retain those clients, if you don't have a strong retention strategy, then what is the point? You're going to be constantly on this, this hamster wheel of trying to draw in new clients, but you can't retain them. So I think sometimes. And I preach. You are talking to the right audience. Yeah. I honestly drives me crazy. People are like, "I need more clients." I'm like, "How come we've been, we've been getting new clients and getting new clients? Like why are your books not getting full?" Yeah. And I think true, you know, like as a, as a salon owner, as a, as a beauty owner, I think it's so important to be looking at our staff who maybe don't have a strong retention and really observing them and working with them to see why. Because I don't believe that people don't want that, but it could be just a slight thing in what they do. It could be the fact that they don't have, they've got a real psychology or they've got their own story that they tell around why they're not going to ask that client for the rebook, why they're not going to sell that retail for the client. And usually it is our own story around money sort of holding us back, going, "Oh, I can't afford that. So maybe I'm just going to project that versus just going, this is your plan. This is your treatment plan. This is your hair plan. This means I'm going to have to see you in six weeks and then again for, for your top up. And this is the aftercare you're going to need to get you to your goal." And I think a lot of the times we sort of, we feel that fear in doing that, but I think like we're doing them a disservice because those clients want to be rebooked. They want to have that. They, they look forward to that. And I think sometimes we can, yeah, we put that on ourselves a little bit at times. I see it happen a lot. Yeah. I absolutely agree. I think that it's a massively overlooked part of the journey with clients and that people are just like, "Oh, if they're happy, they'll just come back." No, they won't. They'll get busy and then they'll forget and then they won't be able to rebook. So they look for somebody else. Yeah. Exactly. Or it's like they know they need to rebook, but life gets in the way because all of us, that happens too. And then, you know, like you say, then they're like, "I need to get in last minute." And when you're at, you know, you're booked, they cannot. So then that's where you lose them versus actually, yeah, having a, having a game plan for that client and showing that you have created this beautiful bespoke, like, this is what you're going to do based on what you've told me. This is going to require this, this, and this. And once they're locked in, they're locked in. It's like, it's like a, it's, it's a non-negotiable. So I think, yeah, if we could do that, it would eliminate this need to be having to market all the time and, and, and, and chase new leads all the time, which is a common thing I hear a lot. Which obviously leading to social media. That is a big thing of like what we're going to be talking about today. It's, you know, how do we get a presence? How do we build a presence? How do we attract the right people in? What happens to your marketing once you're fully booked? Because I see a lot of people go definitely quiet. No, I think that's the opposite that you should be doing. And I, I hear this all the time. I think at the end of the day, what, what salon clinic owners need to recognize is that if you can, and I was actually at an event on Monday and one of the girls in there is like, she's a salon owner. She's like, "I am like fully booked for eight weeks." And I'm like, incredible. I'm like, when was the last time you put your prices up? Because if you have got an eight-week waiting list, I'm like, you need to increase your prices. And she's like, "Oh, no, no, I haven't done that." And I was like, okay. And I was like, and so have you got other staff members in the business that aren't booked up? She goes, yeah. And I was like, okay. I was like, and so do you have like tiered pricing? She's like, no, no, no. Like it's just, I was like, so it's the same cost to see you as the owner, the CEO, and then the other girls. And she's like, no, yeah. And I was like, no. I was like, you need to increase your prices. I was like, you need to keep marketing, but you need to be marketing for the services that the client, that the staff member that's not booked up for, you need to be marketing for them. And if you're like, well, we're fully booked across the board, amazing. Start building your waitlist because we're going into wintertime. We're always going to get cancellations. So at least if you start building out your waitlist, you're going to be able to have like this untapped resource of clients that you know are waiting, uh, that you can then tap into and, and sort of let them know. So I think the worst thing you can ever do is stop marketing. And I see this happen so, so often. And I think, yeah, again, if they are fully booked, that's incredible. Well done to you, but don't stop. Keep that presence going. And I always say like, even if you're not as active on your grid for new clients, still keep your stories going. Still keep that, you know, that, that visibility going with your warm audience that are already looking at what you're doing anyways. And again, keeping them sort of close by because you never know, you get a big cancellation, you can feel it faster, but also you should be looking at how you're pricing because if you are eight weeks booked out, that shows you have demand. So you need to be doing something about that. Yeah, absolutely. I could not agree more. And there's going to be people listening in that situation going, shit, I haven't posted social media for a while because I see it all the time. They get fully booked. They do the work. They get booked. And then I literally have had clients this year who are like, um, I've lost about 20 like clients just due to people moving, people having babies, people deciding to build houses. And they're like, now I have to get back on and do all the hard work again to get clients in the door. And having that waitlist, building that relationship, even though you're fully booked is what's going to get you that waitlist. So I love it. Absolutely. And I think it's like, you know, I equivalate it to like when you've got to get your nails done, right? Like I always dread having to have the full nail, like, you know, full set, fully done again, have to start from scratch versus just my maintenance. So like for me, it's like if you think about your social media, like just keep the door open. And I also equivalate it to like, so often we forget that our social media is literally our digital shopfront. So like if you have got a new client walk off the street into your salon or spa or clinic business and you're like, sorry, no new clients, like you would never do that in person. So like. No DMs. No DMs. No DMs. Oh my gosh. I die. Please stop doing that, guys. Please. I just, I just, and I, I, I'm like, and that's what I say to them when they tell me that when I see they've got no DMs, I'm like, you would you stop a new client walking in your door? Because by putting that in your bio, that is literally what you're saying. And the thing is, that's amazing. You're booked right now. But like you said, it can take no time for things to happen. And then you're starting from scratch. And then you're so out of that rhythm. You're also from an out, and I hate speaking about like the algorithm because I'm just not a big fan of that. I'm like, show up for your clients, but it is knowing that if you do just, uh, you know, completely abandon your socials, it will take time for you to build back up again. And that's frustrating when you want clients now. So just don't completely stop showing up. Just maintain your presence. Um, and again, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. If you've already got content that has performed, that has bought you in bookings, that's what I mean by performing, not how many views it got or anything like that. It couldn't care less how many likes it got. I'm interested in if you know that there was website touch from that content or you had bookings, then just take that piece of content and repurpose that baby. Because at the end of the day, we're not reinventing the wheel when it comes to our marketing. If you have had people come in from a piece of content, just rinse and repeat. And can I tell you, 7 to 8 percent of your followers actually see all your content. So most people would have forgotten or they don't even remember that this is all that content. So I think that's a big thing I see is people being like, oh, I don't want to repeat. I'm like, repeat because you need to be repeating your message. That's what you need. That's what marketing is. It's not, let's reinvent the wheel. It's like, no, no, no. You need to take the message and you need to repeat and repeat and repeat. We review our marketing each month and then we'll actually put it into next year's calendar if it performed well. So if anyone ever watches our Christmas, we have the same December lineup every year and have like, we've been using it in my old business, Counting on Kimberly, for the last four years, guys. It's the same content and it works every year. Why would you make more work for yourself when the goal is to get bookings from social media? And this is where I think we come undone in ourselves because we think we need to reinvent the wheel. And I'm like, no, you don't have to reinvent. Just go again. Just take what's worked and just pop it out again. So yeah, I think there's a lot to be said for that because I think we need to give everyone permission to just not feel bad or to worry. But I deal with it all the time. It's so common. Yeah. I wonder, and I hear this a lot from my own students, from people in the industry. They're like, but my content doesn't get likes. It doesn't get seen. It feels like I pedal out content and nothing happens. There's no conversion. There's not even any engagement. Why is that happening? And what kind of content's actually going to help them get clients through the door? I love this question. And I'm going to, I'm going to kind of throw a bit of a spanner in the works here. So every single time I have a new client come to work with me, I will always obviously see what their Instagram handle is. I will, you know, say to them, how long have you been following? And a lot of the time, these people have never liked one of my social media posts. They're just a stalker. So true. People that are going to buy from you are not usually the ones that are active on your social media content. And so this is where I always say to throw the vanity metrics in the bin. Yeah. And this is what has to happen. Now, I work in salon two days a week for in-house marketing. And I love this because the reason I completely shut down my social media agency, I had 10 accounts I was running was because I want to know what ROI am I giving my client based on how many bums are landing on the seats? And when I had so many accounts I was managing, I couldn't actually do that because I couldn't rely on the salon owner who was very busy to be able to really deep dive in what that looks like. So what I love now about my role is, and this is what I encourage every single person listening to do, become obsessed with understanding. Every time you see a new client marked in your calendar, I want you to do your consultation around your skin, your hair, whatever it is, your lashes. And then the next question out of your mouth needs to be, so I see you're a new client. I would love to know, how did you hear about me? Okay. And that right there is going to tell you exactly where they came from. So I know hand on heart, every single client that I get to interact with as a new client, I am like, hey, I'm Renee. I do the marketing. I would love to just be able to pick your brain for a few seconds. Are you good? And they're like, absolutely. Wow, you're doing an amazing job because like we're seeing your content everywhere. Amazing and great. So you came in off a gray blending reel on Instagram, correct? Yeah. Amazing. Great. So can you tell me what did you do before that? Well, I was actually searching on Instagram, typed in gray blending perth. So that tells me exactly what they're typing in. So they're going to be typing that in on Google. They're going to be typing that in on Instagram, TikTok, wherever. Great. Amazing. What did you do once you saw one of our reels? Well, then I hit follow. Great. Amazing. Then what did you do? Well, from there, I went and had a look and I went down the rabbit hole of all your other gray blending videos that I saw on your page. Great. Awesome. What did you do from there? Well, from there, I actually just booked straight away because I loved what I saw. Or I went to your Google reviews to check out your Google reviews and then I booked. I never stop when they say to me, oh, I found you from a reel. I don't go, oh, cool. Great. No, no, no. What reel was it? What reel was it specifically? Because I know that if that has brought a new client in off the explore feed into the salon business and they have booked from one specific reel, I'm not reinventing the wheel, babes. I'm just taking that reel, that client, and I'm resharing their story, maybe from a reel into a carousel post. So I think a lot of the time we get so focused on, oh, we aren't getting any engagement. We're not getting nothing through the door. But if you actually are getting new clients in, but you don't know where they're coming from, I want you to start there. The new clients you are getting, ask them, talk to them, spend more time doing that than asking them about what they did on the weekend. And I promise you, it will solve all your marketing problems because I'm in there doing it two days a week, every single week. And I mean, we're the 19th of May as we speak. And I know one of the locations is sitting at about 85 new clients and the other is 73. And we're not even at the end of the month yet. That's all organic marketing, by the way. That's amazing. Yeah. So I think, babe, it's, it's stop worrying about the vanity metric of what's not working and investigate from the new clients that are in your door and really getting obsessed with asking them what their pattern was. Because when you know exactly what they're searching, you can take that, that text that they've told you, exactly what in their words, and then you put it on a new piece of content. Yeah. I love. I think that's, it's so simple, but it tells you everything you need to know about your marketing. But the other thing I heard in there was knowing your niche, know your niche, like you very specifically, like they found the gray blending. The gray blending was on the page. Like I find a lot of salons overcomplicate that where they have 70 different things and it's like, well, I don't really know what I'm coming to you for. Correct. And especially, um, through the lens of AI, you know, I'm, I'm very heavily getting into marketing for AI recommendation. So, you know, 43 percent of consumers are now going to chat AI, any kind of AI model, and they are asking for a recommendation for a hair and beauty service. And so we need to be making sure we're optimizing content to be discovered and recommended through AI models. And I had a 68-year-old lady in salon two weeks ago who came in and I said to her, you know, you're a new client. How did you hear about us? She was like, I literally wrote best gray blending salon in Perth and used for the highest ranked. I was in salon again yesterday and the same salon, another lady, she'd been in her mid-fifties. And she was like, I went to ChatGPT and I asked her, who's the best curly hair specialist in my area? So I know that she's typing, who's the best curly hair specialist? So guess what I'm doing on my content now? Looking for the best curly hair specialist in, and then I put the location. That means then when AI is searching for recommendations, it's pulling and scraping from the internet, from all the data. And that's why we're ranking. Cause I've been doing this for the last 12 months already. So yeah, it's, it's actually quite simple when you understand the customer journey and what they're searching for. If you can get into the head of their Google browser of what they're typing in, it is going to unlock the easiest part of your marketing, which is a massive thing that I do with my clients. So yeah, it's exciting. I love it. It is very exciting. And I actually, I'm going to Bali next month and I was looking for a day spa and I asked Claude and it brought up the day spa I ended up booking with. So like it is happening. It is like, cause you're busy and you're like, right, I'm hosting this retreat and I have, I need recommendations for a day spa and this and this and this. And it summarizes all of them in one spot as opposed to going to Google and finding one, then finding another, then finding another. So it absolutely is happening. It absolutely is not going anywhere. It's only going to get more. It's only going to mean like it's, we're at 43 percent now. I guarantee you this time next year, I reckon we're probably going to be sitting in the 75, 80 percent of consumers going to AI models. And I think as well, it's because people will genuinely type in what their struggle is with their hair, their skin, their makeup, you know, everything. And then the way that AI is working is it will literally pull from social media. It'll pull data from websites. We'll pull the data in and it will summarize based on how much they're known in that niche and what they're known for. And so if I can say one thing to your audience around your content, stop trying to market everything and start focusing on your most profitable services. Focus on the things that are your going to bring you the most amount of revenue. Start there. And when you do that, go deep. And what I mean by that is don't just post like, for example, micro dermabrasion. Clients have questions around micro dermabrasion. So like, what is micro dermabrasion? How long do I need to be doing it for to see results? They have all these questions. Start answering your clients' questions they have around a particular service. And that will also help you to rank for AI versus just putting up a micro dermabrasion and then putting micro dermabrasion or skin goals or whatever it is. Like actually, actually answer a question that a client has. And that's how you'll start being able to get more visibility with your business as well. Yes. I'm obsessed with this. I suppose the other thing that I see come up around social media a lot is it's like a jewel thing. People really want to be that big name, right? They want their salon to kick off. They want 20,000, 100,000 followers. They want every post to get 300, 400 likes. And look, I'm going to be honest with you. It's nice when it happens. It's happened to me and it's nice when it happens. But I mean, I went viral the other day and it did nothing. It did nothing for me, by the way, guys. Turns out Anthony Albanese and I, we don't convert. But what I see on the flip side of that is people either want that or they don't want to show up because they are terrified of being bullied. And I went viral and guess what? I've had three troll accounts on that post, which isn't a lot, but to someone else, one would take them down. Now I want to speak about something I know you haven't really spoken about and it is that you actually stepped away from social media for a period of time because you experienced something quite big within the industry. Yeah. It was, it was a lot. And you know, it's such a, social media is amazing from a visibility perspective when it is about getting more, you know, people in the door, but there is the complete opposite to that, which, you know, you can be opened up to, you know, negative things happening. I'm a very positive person. It takes a lot to bring me down, but yeah, it was probably about 18 months ago. Now I had finished up an incredible workshop in Sydney. I had my young girl, Leila, with me. She's been with me for four years and, you know, like she's, she's young. And so very in an impressionable time of her, you know, her age. And we were boarding a flight and one of my community members sent me a message saying, Renee, a massive influencer in the hair industry is talking about you on her stories. She's teasing basically a post that's going to go up about you tomorrow. And she's like, and I just wanted you to be prepared. Hey bestie, sorry to interrupt the episode, but we need to talk. How full are your books right now? Let me guess. You've opened your dream beauty business, set up the space, stocked the tools, even made an Instagram and Facebook page. But now what? You took the leap and finally you're working for yourself. No more making money for someone else thinking, I could do this because you did. But here's the tricky part. How do you get clients? What should you charge? How do you show up online? How do you pay yourself? Let's be real. Beauty school didn't teach you this, but you don't have to figure it out alone. That is exactly why we created Beauty Business Foundations. Your step-by-step guide to building a beauty business that stands out is in profit and attracts dream clients. If you're interested in joining, send me BBF on Instagram and let's see if it's the right fit for you. Now back to the episode. I don't think anyone can prepare you for that kind of moment of somebody dropping that in. We just come off a massive hire of an epic workshop. You know what it's like when you've educated and again, that's what I love to do. And I actually just couldn't even think at that point. Like Leila was looking at me like, are you actually like, she was just unrivalling. She was so upset by this. Lucky we were just about to board the flight in one sense because I couldn't go down a bit of a rabbit hole, but then the whole flight, I had no wifi. I was like torture. It was like five hours of having to like marinate on this. And I was just like, yeah. Like I can't obsess over it and just watch it over and over. Well, it wasn't that post wasn't going live that night. It was that, and this is what I think was really challenging about it. And the anxiety that I felt was because she actually spent, it was so, it was so planned and curated what she was about to do because she teased it on stories. And my audience knows me really well that I talk about business metrics. Don't focus on vanity because, and this is a big thing that I think, um, the reason why this happened was, was that I am not here to help market anyone that wants to become an influencer and reach a global audience. It's not in my methodology. It's not what I teach. It's never been my framework. I just don't think from a mental health perspective that chasing virality and chasing that is healthy for our nervous system. It goes against every part of who I am. I think it creates this unattainable level of success that people think they're getting. And I know there are incredible influences out there in hair, skin, beauty that have got large followings who also are very profitable. But also on the flip side, there are people that have a huge following and they make no money. So it's a very big smoke and mirrors show that goes on on socials. And I think for me, I recognize that. And so the post went up the next day and it was, it was a 15 minute video. She was mocked up. She had a friend next to her, you know, complete mean girl situation. Like it felt like you're back in high school. And I was really badly bullied in high school. So there was obviously already a bit of an underlying trigger there for me anyways. And it's the reason I left school to begin hairdressing. So there was sort of already that pre, you know, stuff that I obviously hadn't dealt with. And so the video went up and I cannot tell you for the first 24 hours, I kept checking to see what the engagement was like, who was responding. And I can't tell you, babe, how many people that I looked up to in the industry that I actually unfollowed that night because they were actually encouraging her post. I'm getting emotional. Can you see? I'm getting emotional because I know, you know, I've been through this. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a lot and people don't talk about it. No, no. And, and it's crazy because at the time everyone close to me was like, just keep going. Don't acknowledge it. Just keep going. And I want to share a bit of a trigger warning here because I think this is a really important piece and a very big wake-up for our industry who are moms. The week that this all happened, there was a mum. And sorry, this gets me. Um, there was a mum whose child, um, committed suicide from being bullied so badly at school. And I was going through what I was going through at the same time and I saw this post go up and I read the article and the school did nothing to support this child, right? And I looked at this post of this young boy who felt like so bullied and I thought, how this person that did it to me is a mother. And I thought to myself, how as mothers do we expect to put out incredible little humans in the world who are kind, who are thoughtful, who care about other people when you've got a mother who is being an absolute bully in the online space because you have a position of power as an influencer, because you are seeked out by brands and you are paid by brands. And you think that that is an opportunity for you to use your platform to tear somebody down that you don't even know. You know nothing about me. You took one line out of a massive post and you took one and used it as a headline and used it to curate your own narrative. And seeing what that mother went through absolutely broke me. And I knew based off that, that I had to speak up about it because if I didn't, I would enable this kind of behavior to be normal. It's normalized. It's just like, oh, well, she's just being a mean girl. And it's interesting because this person is notorious and known in the industry amongst other people for having done the same kind of behavior. And the amount of people that reached out and were like, I am heartbroken for you. I am so sorry. You do not deserve this. But just so you know, she did it to me. She did it to me. And this is where I have a real problem with this kind of behavior being platformed, being celebrated, saying, you're such an inspiration. If you watch that 15 minute video, if you honestly could watch that and think that that person and could not see that what that person was doing was tearing another human being down in the industry, then you really, there's something, there's something going on. There is something not okay for you to not be able, it was clear as day what she was doing and people were in there championing her. Ironically, someone in my field who actually on the post that I put up that I was bullied for, she actually was agreeing with my perspective on more followers don't always equal more dollars, right? I've lived that. Like I live that. And that same person then went over onto that post and was agreeing with this person because they're in a place of influence. So there was this complete like one minute, you're supporting my message, but then when I'm being torn down, you're actually in there, like putting fuel on the fire is what it felt like. It's really interesting, isn't it? The reason I got emotional was because I've lived that moment of looking at a post and watching people you thought were your friends or colleagues or people I'd even put on stages and had big conferences and I just watched one by one people that I thought were my friends and that I respected just be like, I can, we cannot continue to have a relationship. Like we cannot, that if you think this is okay, like, and I never spoke out and I think that's why I wanted you to come on was because I wasn't in a position, unfortunately mine became a legal situation and I wasn't in a position to talk about it. But you came out and you spoke about it and basically, well, actually share your story. You tell me, why did you come out? Yeah. So I went, so it happened, the post went off, it went viral. What I have to say is I have such an incredible community who showed up in the comments. They were like, the person you're talking about, you have no idea what she teaches and who she's for. And if you actually understood marketing, you would understand that your marketing should repel and attract the people that you want. And I, like I said to you earlier, like I'm, the strategies that I have learned and adapted in my business are to help small businesses. I don't really, it's not where I wanted to be at. There are other incredible people in the industry that work with influencers. Amazing. I celebrate you. Well done. It's just not who I'm for. And that's what I think a lot of my audience struggled with. The fact is like, if you actually took a minute to read her bio, which is like, you know, I teach business strategy. I'm not here trying to teach you to grow viral, to grow followers because I know, because I am in the accounts every day and I have been for eight years seeing what converts. I'm not just pulling that out of my, my eyes. Like I'm pulling that from facts. Like I'm in the account seeing what's getting booked and it's not the viral posts. It's not the people that have got the large followings. You know, it's like we had posts get bookings from three likes. It's not about that. 100%. Reaching the right people, right? And so I think that was what I battled with. That's what I struggled with in the beginning was like, if you really could just read my bio, you'd see that like, I'm just not for you, right? But I think it just, it triggered her. So the next day I just completely sat in my pajamas all day. I'm going to be honest. And I just like. I understand. Yeah. I just sit in my pajamas. And I think the most heartbreaking part, babe, was my, my kids were like, mummy, who's made you sad? Like what, what's happened? Don't, because I'll cry again. Cause my kids were the same. Cause they're like, you never cry, mum. I cry all the time, but always for happy or like, but yes. Yeah. It's, yeah. It's tough. They knew something was up and they said, and I said, someone on the internet, I said, on the computer, I said, was really mean. I said, and they didn't, they weren't very nice to mummy. And I said, and it's just, it's upsetting. I said, not because any of it's true. I said, but it's just upsetting because they don't even know me and they're saying bad things about me and people are, you know, in there sort of driving the virality of this post when they don't even know me. And I just used it as a lesson. I said to my kids, I want you to remember how sad mummy is right now. I said, and I want you to remember that anytime that you think that you are going to be mean to somebody, I want you to remember how mummy looks right now, how sad I am. I said, because that's how sad you're going to make someone else feel. I said, and I want you to make sure that you never do that. And you are always kind. And if you see somebody at school being mean to somebody else, I said, I want you to make sure that you go out and you call out that behavior. And I think that is the silver lining of all of this, babe, is that I could have allowed this to have happened to me, or I have allowed this situation to use it as a teaching moment for my babies. I keep, I kept that mother in the back of my mind that week around not staying silent, even though she wasn't silent, but essentially school silenced her. And I took it and I went, okay, now that I'm not emotional, what was actually said about me in this content? And then what proof, what receipts do I have that I can put out to my community? Not to validate her. I didn't say a word about her. All I did was address the fact that hairdressers feel overwhelmed in the social media space. And there is such a narrative going around that you need more followers, more dollars, more to be successful. And a big line in that, in that video was the big opportunities are only given when you hit 40,000 followers was one line she shared in that video. Now, when I started my business. I don't think that you have 40,000. No, babe. I don't have 40,000. We just spoke at timely together. Right. That's my point. So I sat down non-emotionally and I extracted every bit that she spoke about. And then I pulled the receipts and I curated a compilation video of how I started and how I, in the first 12 months of my business, I was asked to go around Australia and do a national tour for Kevin Murphy, 11 Australia, Kate, like the distributors of that. And then the second year, I had less than 2,000 followers. I got asked back again. And then the third year in my business, I was flown to Budapest to be a keynote speaker for Kevin Murphy, which was my dream brand. I'd educated for them and I had less than 4,000 followers. And so no, the opportunities don't just present to people who have 40,000 followers. So I wasn't emotional. I was just factual. I pulled the facts and I put that video out. And can I tell you the sentiment from my audience of like, this is what a classy woman looks like. She does not bow to somebody who has created an awful video. She just brings the receipts. She does it in a classy way and highlights to her audience that this is not facts. Like this is bullshit. And I think this is what you need to be able to do if this happens to you in the online space. You need to take the time to feel whatever you feel. Absolutely. That was my pajama day. But then you need to dust yourself off and you need to go, right, what is actually factual here? And if none of it is, if you've got the receipts, if you feel you need to do that, do that. I just had so many people DMing me that I just wanted to put something out to go, I'm okay. This is not okay. What's happened? And so that's essentially what I did with that message. And yeah, it just, I cannot tell you. So that was, that was done. 12 months later, I was like, right, I didn't really put out what had happened to people, right? I want to use this as a learning lesson. And I did. I put out two carousel posts, which said, you know, what actually happened when I was bullied and then why I chose to speak up. And the why I chose to speak up part was actually what resonated the most. I had women DMing me saying, I was completely suicidal because I had the same thing happen to me and I didn't know what to do. I was so undone by it. And I'm like, this is what I'm not okay with. Like this is not okay. You cannot have a social media platform and be using it to tear another human being down. Like what are you doing? And the thing I want to say to this is anyone that is doing this, it is a direct reflection of their internal world. Absolutely. A direct reflection of the person doing it. That is a reflection of their own inner world. It has nothing to do with you. And that was the biggest thing that landed for me out of all of this was this actually has nothing to do with me. 100%. Like nothing. I'm like covering this entire conversation. I'm like covered in goosebumps because I mean, I've unfortunately had a few of these situations. And I know you saw the post that I put out where I did directly call some people out and that's what I said. I said, you know, the stuff that was said about me, it was insecurity. And I think when you can really think about it like that, like people who are confident in themselves, happy with themselves, happy with their lives, happy with their businesses, they don't do that. They don't need to do that. So it's almost like you get to pass it back once you have your little moment on the couch and your PJs and you have your tears and you do. We're humans. Oh, 100%. We need to process. We're not, we're not, you know, like we're human beings. We need to process these things that happen and we need to take that time to reflect on what has happened, what was said, and be able to then go, you know what, this has actually got nothing to do with me. And that's a really powerful place to be in because it allows you then to go, oh, okay. Cool. This is not, and it takes time. So, you know, like it takes time to get to that. That's not something that just healed overnight for me. That's, you know, it probably took the 12 months to really get my confidence back, but I stopped sharing that message that I sort of had, was bullied for, for a long time. And then once I put out the posts, the carousels that I did speaking up about it, I felt like, okay, yeah, I'm good to go now. So it's tough when you feel like you can't share what you believe in because that happened to me first time. This happened to me. I was the same 12 months. It took me 12 months to come back into myself. And I would say, what are we, yeah, we're about 15 months on and I've just started sharing it again that I'm like, no, I need to be confident in what I've achieved and what I do. And I have evidence of that and I have receipts of that and I can show up and talk about it. But you're right. It took time to heal from it. It will. And I think we need to recognize, I think social media sells us this, you know, this smoke and mirrors. I talked about it earlier around, oh yeah, cool. We just come back out again. And it's like, well, yeah, like I still showed up. I just was a lot quieter in how I showed up because I was already fully booked behind the scenes. I was highly profitable. I was doing the thing. I just threw myself into serving my clients. But what I realized was that you do not, you lose your confidence if you go quiet because it allows them. Cool. I silenced you. And that's, that is not okay. And I think that's for me, what I would say is, you know, take the time you need, but also don't let it completely derail you and derail your business because at the end of the day, there's a thing called a delete button. There's a mute button. Just remove them, block them. And every time you get somebody new in and they're going to do that, just block them, remove them, and off you go. You know, if they're engaging on your content, I'm talking about that never happened for me. She just went and made a 15-minute video slagging me. And our situations are very unique. I know we're together and almost, we're trauma bonding over it a bit, but most of the time it's a comment from a family member. It's a comment on, like someone commented today, calling me a sheep on one of my posts. And I just replied and said, thank you for your comment. Thank you for your comment. Because it doesn't feel emotional. It's, I'm not triggered by it, right? So there are moments like that that you're just like, oh, I'm just going to roll my eyes and move on with my life where it's not this big thing. I think we have this, it's definitely not a gift, but this opportunity to talk about the bigger things because we've lived through them and how to actually get through the other side and survive that. Yeah. And I think too, I think this silence and this dusting things under the carpet, it just doesn't sit with me because all it does is enable this behavior. And, you know, I'm such a big believer in, you know, again, like I keep talking about my children, but, you know, my children are my why. They are like, I am, I am working to put out amazing humans because our world needs that. And I think, you know, like they are not listening to what you say. They are watching how you move through the world. And, you know, that's why I could have just kept quiet about it and not told them, but I wanted them to be bought in and to see. So it never leaves their mind. Actually, like there's a human on the other side of that screen that you are creating nasty videos about that you know nothing about that human. And where do you get off doing something that is so curated and so planned? Like it was not something that was on the fly. It was planned. You had, you were mic'd up. You teased it on your stories, you know? And I think for me, you have to take these things and you need to go, okay, like how can I now platform this so that others don't feel alone? Because the amount of DMs that I had, babe, of people also saying, thank you for speaking up because I had never had the courage to do the same at the time because I was so rocked. Thank you for being a voice for me that I didn't have at the time. And that's what drove me. It was honestly the amount of people in my community that I was like. I was going to say, did you find that your community grew? Because mine certainly did. I had new connections. I had people come into my DMs. I'd never spoken to. It's not about followers, but I had people come into my life who I've now got beautiful connections with because they felt so connected to what I said. Totally. Because I think too, like you've got somebody. And the thing is, like my brand, Salon Society, where every salon has a voice and every voice shapes the future. I would be doing a disservice to my brand to not honor my tagline, which is about helping salons have a voice. Yeah. I, my voice, I'm going to silence my own voice. I was like, no, and I, and I work very closely with my amazing brand strategist who during this time, she was the one that was like, put the first post out. And then when it resonated so much, she's like, you need to do a backup one. You need to share why you're speaking up. And so she was the real driving force behind me from that sense of like, you need to embody your brand message. And, and so again, it wasn't about me. It was about my children knowing that like when we, things, when bad things happen, we speak up. We don't stay silent. And then it was like to my audience and my community, it was like, you know, when bad things happen, we don't just go into our shell and not speak up. Like we'd be brave because when we do that, we give others permission to do the same. And I just don't think that we should be going through this kind of thing and not being able to actually learn strategies to navigate it because it is challenging. It challenges and rocks your whole, you know, being. And sometimes it's not online. Sometimes it's a salon down the road. Sometimes it's, you know, the girl you thought was your best friend. It's, this is real life shit. This is stuff that I think for so long, being people pleasers, we were like, oh, just go into our shell and just cop it on the chin. And it's not about, like you said, being unprofessional. It's about showing up and being like, let me show you who I actually am. And let me show you what I'm not prepared to tolerate. Because at the end of the day, you know, like I said, we, I am not here to enable poor behavior and I am not allowing somebody to take my light because I am bright and I'd make no apologies. And if my light offends you, then you need to go and do some work on yourself. You need to go hug a tree, lay on the lawn, whatever you needed to do. Go hug a tree. That's your punishment. Off you go. Go hug around yourself because obviously, like this, like I said earlier, it speaks volumes about who you are and nothing about me. And the minute I learned that, that was a very, like I felt like I was like, you can come and do whatever you want now. And people were like, oh my God, aren't you afraid? Like, because you've put out two posts now. Like what if she comes back? I was like, what's she going to do? Do another video? So what? I said, bring it on. I said, because then I'll actually share the first video to my story followed by the second one. I said, and actually call out who it was. Because people at the time were like, who is it? Who is it? Who is it? Like a lot of people who hadn't seen the content. And I was like, I am not engaging in that. I'm not going to do that. That was something I decided too. That is not my class. Like when people go low, I will always go high. So you will not catch me in that. That's why I left high school. But then the people that knew, because they saw the post, they knew what I teach. My methodology is strong, that they straight away recognized the content that was being read out. They identified it with me. Yeah. So that's also another thing is like, just don't, don't go doing this slagging thing online because it just, you know, keep that head high and. Absolutely. I think integrity always wins. Always wins. And like I resonate with your story so much. Obviously, a bit of a different situation, but I, I feel really honored that you were sharing it here with me and my audience, but also I'm so proud of you because I don't get emotional. Why am I always crying? I know how hard it is to be this strong. Yeah. It is. And thank you for acknowledging that. I think, yeah, the timing is right now. It wasn't right for, you know, the first 18 months I shared with you before we got on camera. I had an event not long after and somebody boarded up in the crowd and I just, I couldn't talk. I was like, yeah, I couldn't even get the words out. And it was just really challenging because again, it's like, you know, it's not true, but it's like, it's still a trigger. It's still like, like, why am I being targeted? Like I don't even know you. So I think, yeah, it's the, the, on the other end of it, if you allow it to be an opportunity to grow and to strengthen yourself, I honestly, I'm pretty strong anyways. But now I feel pretty invincible online. Like anyone could. I'm not going to lie. No, like honey, try not to. The trolls that come onto my posts every now and then, I'm like, oh man, you're nothing. Like you're fine. I think I do become unshakable. I really, I do. Like it's so funny. I'm such an empath. So I'll cry at other people's stories and probably my own. But honestly, I feel pretty invincible at this stage. Like not, I'm never say never, but I'm just like, come for me. I'm going to say whatever I want online in the way that I want to say in an integral way because I know I can back myself. Yeah. And I think that's what you need to focus on. And so I think just to kind of tie a nice bow in all of that for your audience is, you know, how do I navigate that? Do not let fear stop you from promoting and showing up for your business because there is no person in this world that's worth it. They will never be your dream clients. They will never pay your bills. So I think take the power back, block, remove anyone you need to remove. Remove any family members also because I did that. I did that in the beginning because I would stop me showing up and I just was like, again, I'm taking back the power. So I would just mute them all or I remove them as followers. And it was so funny because they would always say, oh my gosh, like you look like you're killing it online. And I'd be like, oh really? Because I've never seen you liked one of my posts or I see you watch all my, all my stories. So they know everything that I'm up to, but they do not, they do not engage. So I'm like, you will be going off. You will also be going off because you're just there to creep on me. But like, how about message and go, wow, you're doing an amazing job or well done or whatever it is, something. 100%. I, we had this recently. Um, if she ever listens to this, I wasn't offended, but someone who's never liked anything was like, oh my God, I watch all of your stories. You are killing it. I was like, look, it would be really nice if you would like a damn post. Yeah. The amount of times that happens that people, a lot of people are watchers. And I literally had to sign up today and I was like, where the hell did you come from? Had never liked a post, had never engaged. And then I got on there and I'm like, oh, you follow me. So you've clearly been watching for a long time. And she messaged me and was like, I literally am so excited to join. I've been wanting to join forever. I'm sorry, what? Like, I'm like, thank you for joining. And I'm so excited. But like, I, it's crazy how many people just watch. So you got to keep showing up for them. Yes. And I think not just, um, you know, like we said earlier, not showing up because, um, sorry, not waiting for you to have the engagement. Like, you know, just even when you think it's silent, just keep moving. Just keep moving because there are always people watching. If you have story views, they are your warm audience. They are watching you. So the minute you stop showing up is when they'll like lose trust. So yeah, keep that digital shopfront open and just keep showing up where you can. So yeah. You are amazing. I appreciate you sharing this with me. I was like, this is going to be great. She's going to share her story. I'm over here like, I'm going to cry. I've cried so many tears now. I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm on the other end now. I was worried. I wasn't like full transparency. I was a little bit worried. Like, oh, it's going to trigger something again. But I'm like, no, I actually, I mean that. How grounded you are. Yeah. It's, it's, it's again, you got to, you got to do the inner work on that. 100%. It's funny because obviously I'm still crying about my situation from, no, I'm not in general life, but when I have to talk about it, but I suppose in my situation, I didn't get to talk about it. I can't talk about it. So my talking about it's with my therapist and my family and stuff. So I think maybe the process is taking longer because I haven't had that ability to step out and chat about it. But I feel very honored to have you on. I feel very honored that you shared. I loved you at timely. I was like, who is this woman? She knows her shit. And also we got to connect like this and learn about each other. And I just think you're amazing. I feel the same, babe. Thank you. I'm very honored to be on. I love it. Love the, love a deep chat. We, I feel like we went from zero to 500 even in the, in the previous week before we even met, which was lovely. So yeah, thank you for having me. Thank you for holding space. And yeah, I've loved it. So thank you so much. Thank you. Just quickly, where can everybody find you? Yes. Over on Instagram, slide into my DM, Salon Society AUS. But yeah, love a chat. So feel free to send me a DM. Superstar. Thanks, my love. And that's a wrap on today's episode of the Beauty Business School Podcast. If you love what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. It helps us keep bringing you the best beauty biz insights and juicy industry tips. Remember, we're more than just beauty business besties. We're here to help you build a business that turns heads and breaks the rules. Until next time, keep shining, keep thriving, and keep showing the world what a beauty boss really looks like.