Dynamic Life Cycles
Dynamic Life Cycles
Dryland training isn't just for Skiing - Jason Bond
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This winter, we’re talking about staying fit and ready for the trails, even when the weather turns. Jason Bond, founder of Bond Training, joins us to share his experience and strategies for maintaining cycling fitness during the colder months. With 25 years of competitive cycling under his belt, Jason dives into his six-month mountain bike dryland program, designed to build strength and power that translates seamlessly to your summer rides. He also shares personal stories about adapting to winter conditions and how activities like skiing can complement off-season training.
We’ll also get into the mental side of high-stakes sports like BMX racing and downhill biking. Jason offers insight into managing pressure, building self-belief, and focusing on growth, key elements for young athletes navigating competition. It’s all about embracing the journey and learning from every challenge along the way.
As cycling grows in popularity across all ages, we explore why strength training is becoming essential, not just for peak performance but also for staying injury-free, especially for older riders. Whether you’re a young enthusiast or someone in your sixties looking to stay active, there’s something here for you.
Finally, we look at how hybrid training, combining skill development with strength work, is changing the game. We touch on the role of technology in tracking progress and even dive into exciting developments like BMX team expansions and the growing cycling community at the North Shore Bike Park.
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Winter Cycling Training Essentials
Speaker 1Welcome back to the Dynamic Life Cycles podcast. Winter is here and for cyclists, that means tackling one of the hardest challenges staying strong and ready through the cold times. Today, I'm joined by Jason Bond, the founder of Bond Training, who has spent over two decades helping athletes crush their goals even through the off-season. We'll explore his mountain bike dryland program, designed to keep athletes pushing their limits over the winter and seamlessly transferring that strength to summer riding. We'll dive into combining dryland strength training with. Cycling isn't just about boosting power. It's about preventing injuries, building competition readiness and unlocking your next level of performance. With over 25 years of competitive cycling experience and training expertise, Jason's got insights for everybody, from the elite racers through to the weekend warriors, From tackling the progression with cutting-edge tools to balancing skills and strength, we've got it all covered. As always, don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions and if you enjoy the podcast, please get on and share it around with like-minded people. Enjoy your listen. All right, Jase, how are you?
Speaker 2I'm very well Jared. How are you doing?
Speaker 1I'm great. I'm great. It's been a weird day it's been December and sunny.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1It's cold but like very nice outside sunny.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's cold but like very nice outside. Uh, yeah, on the drive in, uh, it definitely got um more overcast and the humidity is coming in. I think we've it more so than last year.
Speaker 1It feels like it's going to be a big winter yeah, that's that's definitely what I've been hearing like it's sort of on that borderline. Last year I got super lucky with the I guess the ski passes. If you could call it lucky in the sense that I didn't buy a ski pass right and then just lucked out that the snow was really bad and then this year I'm like I didn't really miss it that much, and now it's just been like dumping on all the mountains.
Speaker 1I'm like, oh, maybe I should have got a ski pass yeah, my, uh.
Speaker 2Mine was the opposite. I had a ski pass last year and I was like I can't justify that again. This year and I'm already regretting that. So, um, I'll get out there and it's um, yeah, it's finding the time to do it all right now 100 it's.
Speaker 1There's so many activities going on and I feel like every year the planning for summer gets earlier. So every year it's sort of like we start talking about like what we're going to do in summer and how you start building out those plans right and I feel like summer wasn't even quite over and I was already getting asked different, like whatever events and things that were going on next year.
Speaker 2In 2025.
Speaker 1Yeah, and it's like, well, like going back to France and doing the wine thing and doing a few other things, and it's like, yeah, this was like conversations in October.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And I'm like hang on, I'm going to get through winter first before. I start making up my mind about those.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah. Part of it too is maybe your goals are getting bigger and your ambitions are.
Speaker 2You know they they require a longer pathway to get there or a longer runway to get set up for them. So, um, it's not a bad thing to plan ahead Um way to get set up for them. So, um, it's not a bad thing to plan ahead. Um, yeah, I hear you loud and clear, though it's. It started early, like it seemed like once the kids were back to school and, um, the leaves were starting to turn like, um, uh, the flip side of that is you don't want to get way ahead of yourself and and miss um, you know all the great things that are happening right now, but it's good to have a map drawn out of where you want to end up.
Speaker 1Yeah, for sure, and I think like we'll dive into it a bit more in a second. But like the training and with some of the events that may be coming up and some of the events I want to put on my plan for next year, I think, is you almost need that 12 months of preparation, at least six months anyway. Um, so, exactly as you say, it's like a bit of a roadmap. To get to that point is, uh, is definitely a big thing for sure.
Speaker 2Yeah, and it's relative to right. Like you, you're a person that involved, like cycling, is part of your lifestyle, and so you're riding a fair amount. Um, you know there's other, there's lots of other things going on, and so, um, you know, it's not like you're coming off the couch, whereas, um, sometimes for these events, you know the the sport itself is brand new for the participant and that requires, depending on their ambition, a little bit more runway to achieve what they want to do.
Speaker 1So I guess that's a perfect segue into introducing yourself. Give me your 30-second spiel what you do and who you are.
Speaker 2Thank you. So my name is Jason Bond. I run Bond Training. I'm based in North Vancouver. We do a couple different services with regards to training for cyclists. The signature service is probably our mountain bike dryland program, which is a winter strength program. It takes place in a great facility here in North Vancouver and it's twice a week and it's a six month commitment over the winter and it is focused on increasing strength and power using gym equipment.
Speaker 2So cross training- by all accounts, um, but it's designed for cyclists, um, it's probably, you know, the demographic is predominantly mountain biking, but not exclusively. Um and then um, and then uh, yeah, other training services include, uh, customized training programs. So how to spend your time on your bike, on your trainer, again, other forms of cross training, whether it's cross-country skiing or or rowing or what have you um, and how to use that to move forward in your fitness or in preparing for a goal. And then racer and rider development, which has always been very near and dear to me. But how to you know? We're talking about these events, a lot of the participants in my program. Events for them are actually a vacation or the ability to get out for a big weekend with the riding cohort, but for other people it's a competitive outlet. So it might be their first time doing BC bike race, or it might be high level enduro events happening here in BC or abroad DH, bmx, fondos, all these, all these yeah, all the different all things bike, yeah, two wheeled, yeah.
Speaker 1So tell me a little bit, like about that importance of training, because I know you just mentioned a ton of different options that you can train, how you can train, yeah, um, tell me a bit about the importance and what you believe training is, because I think there's a somewhat of a misconception on on what it is, but how, like for me and it it always comes back to the context of the whether you call it athlete, rider, person in general. Yeah, training can be anything from, for me, riding your bike for fun right through to being a super structured record, everything professional, athlete like. How do you see training as a coach?
Speaker 2because that sort of I guess for me is more I'm looking at it as an athlete more than anything yeah, I, um, I would take your definition just one step or refine it slightly in that it's taking an individual and moving, you know, whether it's skill or physiology or any knowledge, and moving from point A to point B, as far as on that progression of improving as a rider. So any, any element, there's a number of elements you can focus on.
Speaker 1Yeah, but, um, that, at the very basic level, that's what training is in my mind there's that opportunity to adapt and grow yeah, for sure, and I think, like with what you're just mentioning there, it's sort of guess, breaking down what, whether it be skill based or physical based, I guess is what you're saying subjects, but you know it might come down to what we would sometimes call a SWOT analysis.
Speaker 2So, like your strengths, your weaknesses, the opportunities and the threats. So you know, for somebody that wants to do their first BC bike race, going over, you know what resources they have time-wise, and then you know creating a plan around what their expectations or their goals are if they want to finish in the top five percent at a bc bike race and age group. It's going to look very different than the rider that just wants to finish, yeah, um. So you know creating a plan that's reasonable, um, um, that also is achievable, um, and is realistic yeah, those are all important elements to it, and so that might be a big focus on skills.
Mental and Physical Training for Racing
Speaker 2It might be a focus on the physiology. It will more than likely incorporate both elements. Um, racecraft, the the mental part of preparing for an event like that. There's uh, and, and that's the rider development that I really enjoy. There's a number of pieces you have to consider.
Speaker 1Tell me a bit more about that, because I'm a massive believer in the mental aspect of the training. I know, talking with a bunch of professional athletes and different people and this comes a lot more from the motocross world than the mountain bike world but I know there's been a ton of the the downhill professionals, like the top guys, that are using like mental coaches and strength, like to strengthen that mental game, um, just to really open up what they can believe and I think, like you, go back to the like positive thoughts give positive results and sure that type of thing yeah when you talk about the mental aspect.
Speaker 1What are you, what are you trying to work with there?
Speaker 2because there's there's tons of different things, I guess, but yeah, and by no means am I an expert on that. I mean, we both have talked to Jake at the Mind Mountain and it's really cool to see what he's pursuing and trying to make that knowledge and that insight more accessible. You know, it's about one's belief in themselves. It's about how one sees themselves in the world. Just a belief in their preparation, knowing that when they show up they're prepared. But also, you know that their expectations for their performance are in line with the work they've done.
Speaker 2Were at the Grands this past weekend in Tulsa, oklahoma, and you know, it's really. They're young athletes but they haven't been to an event of that caliber and it's really interesting to see, you know, how each of them handled it. I'm really proud of each of them. They've done so well. But you know, did they, did they? Did? You know? Can they look at themselves in the mirror and say that was my absolute best performance? Or, under the circumstances, did I do the best to my ability? Um, that's an interesting you know, that's.
Speaker 1That's part of the equation yeah, exactly, and and I guess guess working with those athletes to understand how they felt and where they felt they were lacking, to then work on that. So then it goes full circle almost, because I'm sure some of them were just like starstruck with some of the people that would have been walking through the pits and just the size of how big that event is. But then on the flip side I'm sure some of them were like, oh, this is just a normal event. But then where were they lacking in that sense? Is it strength or is it that they just need more experience at that size event? Or where that goes, I guess, is how you could break the mental. Is that where you're at?
Speaker 2Yeah, 100%, Because these are young athletes and they're self-motivated. You know, from my end, my partner, Elle, works with them as well. You know we wanted to make it really clear that this is an event of a caliber they're not used to. But, you know, with their ambitions and their talent, like we know, it's going to be part of the routine in the years ahead. And so to go down and take it all in, you know, take it one gate at a time. They know what a BMX gate.
Speaker 2The cadence is the same whether you're at North Shore Interriver track or in Abbotsford or in Chilliwack or in Washington or in Tulsa, Oklahoma. It's the same voice, it's the same set of lights. So be prepared to just do your best, each gate at a time, and take it all in. Because what I saw and I saw this just from the outside watching our downhill athletes race at the World Cup, that first time or two, especially, and even the first season you start showing up for World Cup downhill races, it's overwhelming. So mentally you can go into it. There's games and tricks you can do to prepare for that, to give your best performance. But if you're looking at the long-term game plan, by taking some of that pressure off yourself to give your absolute best performance on race day the very first time you're at a World Cup. It allows you to enjoy it and be really tuned into important lessons that you'll carry forward with you um to future racing yeah if that makes sense yeah, no, I think, I think so for sure, and it's always.
Speaker 1Yeah. I think the mental side of it can come back to a thousand different reasons, to to why and how you feel certain ways and whether, whether it's, as you say, the, I don't know there's. There's tons of different things like I'm just trying to think of different things here with, like, um, just the event and, as you say, the first few times you go to these places, it's just feeling comfortable in that atmosphere. Yeah, um, and then, yeah, I didn't even think of it in the aspect of how, just, if you were to go internationally with that and people are not speaking the your normal language and the food's different and obviously the the plane and and everything like that, there's so much build-up that, uh, once you get there, it's almost like a, a dump of emotions to some degree sensory overload, like your heroes are suddenly in the gate right behind you.
Speaker 2Yeah, um, you know there's. The noises are different, the sounds are different. So, yeah, um, and these writers were working with, like that's where they want to be, like that, that was one of their goals for the season and they achieved that goal, so that's worth celebrating, that. They were again. I've said it, I'm so proud of what they've done, um, but we know they're they're on the path that, if they want to, they can be back there next year and for years to come.
Speaker 1So yeah um, they'll be smarter and wiser and and even, you know, more adept at putting out their best performance for sure, and I think, yeah, the biggest thing is just like the experience for them right now, which is so cool yeah like I remember going through all of that sort of growing up racing and and then it's kind of funny. I'm thinking about it now like racing a line, this year being that I raced pro versus my age.
Speaker 1That's awesome, which is it was kind of forced upon, but at the same time it was really cool, because the guys in front of him, behind me, are like world cup factory level riders, literally yeah the guy. I can't remember who was in front of me, but I think it was. Uh yeah, I'm mental blanking now and on the people in front and behind me, but they were.
Speaker 2They'd literally come from the previous world cup yeah, racing it would have been a who's who and yeah exactly and at the same time I I just felt calm like it was.
Speaker 1It was cool now to reflect on that when we're talking about this and having that mental ability to help break that down. I think is interesting and hearing it with some of the younger writers how they're coping with it and stuff it's yeah, it's interesting. So tell me a bit more about the dry land and what the goal is of that, because I feel like we sort of have this in the mountain bike world a bit of a I don't even know.
Speaker 1Maybe stigma is the right word behind um, a bit of a stigma maybe behind, like the gym training, and there's, I think, still a bit of a hangover from where you had to be super light and lean, from the road world and I know that's a bit of a like 20 plus years ago now, but at the same time there's still this, I think little bit of a. We just want to go ride our bikes and party hard and how that's how that's changing, and you've kind of done this through that whole transition.
Speaker 1um, because what? How many years is this in this?
Speaker 2is season 16 yeah yeah.
Speaker 2So when I started the program, uh, it came as a result of training myself, uh for downhill racing, um here in bc, so at the bc cup and and some of the canada cup level, and I was just working up through the ranks.
Speaker 2But, um, I was really ambitious and I couldn't crack the code as like with regards to results, um, and in the winter, you know, we have access to great recreation facilities here on the North Shore, and so I just started with basic bodybuilding program and then what I saw, and I don't know why, I think like one of the things, because at the time there wasn't a lot of research and information about what to do in the gym or if it was even effective as a downhill racer. But in, you know, I think I've said this before but I started to turn to other sports and in any activity where there's a lot more resources, you know they're going to be very efficient with their time and where they put their energy, and so it's not hard to connect the dots of some of the similarities between downhill racing and uh on a mountain bike and downhill racing and skiing or uh, even motocross, like, especially out of California and Southern States. There was a lot of resources put into their racers and there was information, some information coming out about what they were doing, the the really successful athletes. So I looked to what those athletes were doing, um, I'm trying to think of some of the other sports, but those were two parallels that were very easy to draw and they were definitely, like you know, dry land, came from the ski, the ski um world. Like that's what you did in the summer as you went and ran sand dunes and lifted heavy weights and these other elements. You were off the snow, you were on dry land training, um, but you were doing what you could in the summer to prepare for, um, your ski racing over the winter.
Speaker 2So that's where the program started, um, or or, where a lot of the inspiration, initially, and the knowledge that, uh, that I use in our programs initially came from, and then, over the years, have just refined it. Um, and now there's a even more good research specific to cyclists and it's actually confirmed a lot of what we were already doing.
Speaker 1Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because I feel like the professional, the trainers of the professionals, let's call them have somewhat become more public now and I feel like you started in the opposite way of starting with the public, training and and training yourself and working on yourself and understanding okay, I'm a rider, I need this strength and understanding how that reflects in the gym. Yeah, and then now you, you hear and see all these different sort of academies or, um, just yeah, professional trainers that are doing different things online yeah um, how does that relate?
Speaker 1and it sounds like obviously what you were doing is already very similar or the same as what they're then now publishing online and and that research that they're putting in like how, how do you feel about that in that sense, I guess, if that's a question, yeah that.
Speaker 2Uh, I'm trying to think like is there another way you could word that question for me?
Speaker 1because like I I guess, like I'm trying to think of his name now, but in general, just looking at all the different coaches that you see there's quite a few actually in England that I see popping up right now. Absolutely.
Speaker 2Well, and they're also trying to sell online services, right yeah, and so they've used that channel to get eyeballs and to get attention. I don't you know, from what I've seen from them, like they're not off base, like they're not, the programs look effective. They've got reputable riders working for them.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2I think there's great programs out there. I probably at my end I probably you know, if anything I probably could be do a better job of my marketing and social media, like the reality yeah, everyone can at the end of the day, for sure um, but also having a the right platform too. Yeah, um, to get that information out there, not from a marketing standpoint, but in delivering it to to clients remotely. Yeah, um, that's one thing with my business I'm looking to develop in the weeks and months ahead.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I think even refining what I was just questioning more is how would I explain it Sort of have you seen an uptake, I guess, in that training because of these people coming more available and more online? It's sort of like that rising uh tired floats or boats type thing. Have you noticed that change over the years?
Speaker 2I think the biggest change, uh, that that I've seen as far as people coming in to train with me is, um, is actually more of the information around how important strength training is as we get older, um, the program I run is is, uh, you know that it I'm not giving it away, it's an investment, um, and so you know it tends to be like we have all types in the program and I'm so proud of the people that it attracts, but at the same time, you know it's it is a commitment of resources, and so there's more and more information about quality of life, longevity and how important strength training is to that.
Speaker 2And in this part of the world, you know those riders understand that if they're only doing endurance activities all the time even mountain biking, you know you're you're more apt to be dealing with osteoporosis down the road, um, you're more apt to be dealing with injuries that are harder to come back from, whether you're a young athlete or an older athlete, and the gym really helps move the needle on on those things, um, you know, and so that has been a bigger influence on who's signing up for my program these days. Is the research just on, like if you want to keep skiing or keep biking at a high level into your fifties and sixties and seventies? Um, you, you better be getting into the gym once or twice a week on a regular basis. So yeah, so it does. The program does attract the high performance athlete, but what's interesting is, I think the average age has swung from when the program first started to where it is now.
Speaker 2And you see this, this older athlete, and you know lots of them, are fantastic, really high level riders yeah they are competitive or not, um, but but that average age has moved up probably a decade, yeah, the last 10 years that sort of answers.
Speaker 1The next thing I had on my page is like who is participating? Because I feel like exactly that, like I know when I know when I'm in the gym with you and then also in the indoor center, they're doing the hybrid side of things, that age range. Well, now, with the hybrid, we've got kids in there at what? 10, 11 years old right through to.
Speaker 1I'm putting a guess here onto that sort of 60 plus yeah, absolutely in in some cases and, and I think it's sort of exactly as you say, that age bracket is becoming more and more diverse, I guess is the way to describe and um, seeing different people and talking to different people and seeing how late they're riding into their, their life, I guess is such a big thing and it's, it was always interesting, I would say, in the last five to ten years how many people have swung from excuse the pun here, but from golf across to cycling, sure, um, yeah, and then moving to north vancouver and and seeing not only just cycling but even mountain biking in general, how late people are riding, like you take north shore betty right um, or or someone of that age, yeah, um, and she looks super fit, like I've.
Speaker 1I've not really got to speak to her too much in person, but just seeing her in passing like yep and I don't know how old she is. I think she's somewhere in the 70s, from what I understand yeah, I have, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2I, I mean, I haven't had a chance to work with her in the gym, but, um, you know, that's exactly what I'm seeing too. Um, and we live in a part of the world like it's the North shore, like, yeah, um, it's not a place you tiptoe around on the bike, you know, and and uh, one of the things I love about the program is getting to hear about the rides and the adventures the participants are are partaking in on the weekend. It's one of the first questions I ask is how their weekend was and what the riding involved. Um, the, to be clear, like I'm a rider, first and foremost, the gym is is a tool to compliment that riding, um, and so that's, I think that's my clientele. That's what they um value, and then it's a matter of their time.
Speaker 2They're coming to me, they're, they're smart, um, and they're busy, but they know, by committing to this time slot twice a week, whether it's these young athletes coming up and their parents supporting them, or these, these age group athletes, um, they, they know there's no fluff like I, I really try to make the hour high value. Yeah, um, and you know it's uh. So that speaks to the broad range of participants is and the type of participant um, is that, uh, they really understand that I value their time and I want to. I want to make the most of it. There isn't a lot of fluff in our sessions.
Speaker 1Yeah, I would agree. I think they're pretty efficient with what you get done in that sense.
Speaker 2Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1And then I guess, as a full side note to that, is strength versus skill. I think this is a real interesting one, because I, even myself, I get asked this a lot like what do I work on and when do I work on it and how do I work on it? And I don't really have a straight answer, because I don't think there is an answer for strength over skill or vice versa. Um, because I believe that you have to have, there's a certain level of skills.
Speaker 1You have to have to ride a bike sure there's also a certain level of strength and depending on the level of riding that you're riding at yeah uh, it sort of comes back to what is needed at that point. I I think there's a ratio there for sure. You take your age group cross country level rider versus, say, someone like Steve Vanderhoek, and it's just like, okay, you look at Steve and he's a firefighter.
Training Priorities and Skill Acquisition
Speaker 1He's ripped, he's six foot whatever hard like brick house yeah, exactly, just solid muscle dude, yeah, but he needs that strength to complement the skills that he has to ride the way that he does, yeah, and it almost goes in like that full triangle sort of situation and then you go backwards from that. I'm just wondering, as a from a skills point of view, as me as a coach, versus you, as and I know you just said that you're a writer first and foremost. But right, um, coming from the strength background, where your opinion sits with that, because it's sort of interesting in my eyes, because I I can't really put a straight answer on it.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I think it depends on the discipline. So, as a coach, like if it comes down to where your focus should be generally, let's say you have the opportunity to do two sessions in a day, I would, if you have the choice, I would always go for the skill session when you're fresh and then the, you know, the second session being a, the training ride or the session in the gym, like you generally, are going to be better off acquiring a new skill when you're fresh, when you're tired, if you don't have that skill ingrained already. The philosophy is you're more apt to learn bad habits in executing that skill. And so that's, if you have a choice in where you're putting your energy, you definitely want to try to acquire skills while you're fresh. And then, in the big picture, I think it's it's a question of what is your limiter. And so you know, as a road cyclist or an xc athlete, you need a certain level of skill, you need to be comfortable riding, you know uh, on a wheel in a peloton, um cornering safely.
Speaker 2You know all these elements, but relative to, maybe, a downhill racer or a bmx racer, the execution of skill and I don't want to offend anyone out there because I've done all the disciplines and they're all humbling in their own right, but the skill level is different, like it's easier for a 30 or 40-year-old to acquire the skills to ride confidently and comfortably in a peloton. So then, what's the limiter there? If you're doing road crits or or fondo or what have you, then it's you know, your aerobic engine, it's your efficiency on the bike, it's your you know ability to climb. Are you carting extra weight around? You know how quickly are you recovering for the next climb? Um, how efficient are you on the bike in general? And so, as a coach, those are the you know.
Speaker 2You want to figure out what the limiter is yeah more more strength is going to help on the climb, it's going to help in the sprint. It's going to make you a bit more resilient. It's actually going to increase your efficiency. As long as your watts per kilogram are thrown way out of whack. You're generally more efficient with a bit more muscle, so in that case your training might be a better focus. You always want to work on what's most important. Might be a better focus, like you always want to work on what's most important. Um, but for that bmx athlete, you know if, if they're really highly skilled already, then then the strength's going to be more important the ability to you know to bend cranks and bend carbon when they come out of the the gate is going to be more important.
Speaker 2Um, and yet that's a really highly skilled sport. So I'd be hesitant to say, you know, sacrifice the skill element. So for the younger athletes, the strength is low on the totem pole. For the younger BMX athletes, being young, like their age and stage, acquiring skill is going to have a bit more of a priority. For that you know that young enduro athlete, downhill athlete, it's a mix, you know. So it comes back to what your limiters are and what is the next level you need to achieve to achieve your goals in your sport.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I think that's a pretty fair answer, like I, as I say, I always struggle with it because it is something that, as a skills coach, I get asked. A lot is like what should I do in the gym, or how should I work in the gym, or how much should I be in the gym Right, and it's as you say, it's literally what is the limiter, and that's a perfect way to put it. I hadn't thought of putting it that way, in the sense of yes, like okay, you have more than enough strength. You come from a bodybuilding background, right, like you don't need to be in the gym, yeah. Or you come from a pure road background and you're trying to race downhill, you need to put on 20 pounds of muscle and that's maybe, maybe that's the wrong number, but you know, I'm saying like there's a percentage there and I think it's interesting to hear your side of it is how how that breaks down on on that side of things.
Speaker 1And yeah, I guess that goes into the, the hybrid training, and I guess where that comes from, does it not?
Speaker 2uh, yeah, in part like that. That program's been really fun because it incorporates some a couple different important elements, right. So, um, the hybrid program for those of you who don't know is, uh, something we're doing at the north shore bike park, where they're I think we're doing at the North Shore Bike Park, where they're, I think we're running about six or seven hours a week right now of programming, um, and full disclosure, jared's leading the, the skills element and the training sessions, which has been really fun, um, but it's uh, it involves, um, basically, it's a program where we can introduce trail riders to the bike park and to some training concepts that the bike park is perfect for using. That will just make you a better trail rider.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I think exactly what you're saying there, it's sort of that stepping stone into the gym. You're saying there, it's sort of that, that stepping stone into the gym, whether you've been in the gym in the past for and been out for a long time, or yeah, or where that goes. But I think it gives that without making it sound like it's inferior to the gym in general, but I think it just helps create a good base for training.
Speaker 2yeah, yeah, and I and I it it is um, for some people it is an introduction to some of the concepts around training, like, um, some of the measurables. Uh, we do have, uh, an aspect of the session that is we refer to as dry land, where they're off the bike doing some strength work or some mobility work. Um, we only have an hour, so we spend about 15 minutes of our program doing those sort of things off the bike, which isn't enough time, but it's a great introduction to yeah um, some of the things you can do that will add to your riding, whether it's from a performance standpoint or from a resilience standpoint, um yeah yeah, and I think exactly that it's.
Speaker 1It's not anything super specific because, as you say, we've we've kind of broken it down into 15 minute blocks, but right at the same time, it gives you that overall training aspect, I think, which is really nice, and we've even had, uh, some of the clients go from the, the hybrid into dry land and then I just got told today that there's a couple of people that are coming back to the hybrid because they actually they prefer the hybrid over just the straight dry land because they they enjoy the riding aspect mixed in with the strength well, I think they're missing the hybrid.
Speaker 2I don't know that they want to step away from the dry land because they're still, they're committed to the dry land program but they're missing.
Speaker 2Yeah, should rephrase that no, and it's like, if I had my way, we'd have three days a week and two of them would be in the gym and, um, you know, one of them would be at the park doing what we're doing.
Data Tracking in Athletic Performance
Speaker 2So, and in fact, yeah, we've tried to accommodate that. So, to your point, a couple participants were introduced to our services through the hybrid program and have gone on to sign up and participate in the gym program, the dryland program, but are now missing the hybrid, and I think that speaks to the value of that program. Yeah, um, I'm really proud of the feedback we get on on what we're doing in in the bike park, and that is, people are noticing how much it's affecting their trail riding, um, in a positive way, just in, in their confidence with the execution of skills, but we're also pushing their energy systems and their physiology. So, um, a bit, usually a bit of an endurance element, but there's speed and power to it as well, and, um, you know, people are coming back with big smiles when it, when they've taken what we've been doing and apply it to their trail riding.
Speaker 1Yeah, for sure, and I think it's like it's interesting because we do have all ranges of people in that, that course. Um, it's kind of cool to see it broken down and and everybody taking away fundamental skills and and then obviously the bit of a strength in there. There's also a bit of mobility sometimes in there, and then then sort of the sprint aspect, but also the community vibe, I think is also quite fun as well uh 100 and that's something across the board I've been really proud of.
Speaker 2Like uh, you're getting to experience that a little bit with the dry land. Um, it just attracts a great. I mean mountain bikers I haven't met too many, I don't like so um, it just seems it attracts that group and it's really fun to work with them in that environment and it is, uh, you know it is.
Speaker 2I, like I said I love riding. I understand, um, getting into the gym is a little bit of a stretch. Um, you know, when we classically think of people spending in the gym, time in the gym, that are athletes. Like you know, it's a lot of westernized media of, like you know what the football players are doing or the yeah, the college athletes, but you know, we're um, that's uh, that's not what this group is.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know for sure, and I think it's a pretty fun thing.
Speaker 1But to touch on that a little bit more, I'm interested to hear how you see like tracking data and going from there, because it's sort of there was a massive hype over the past few years of everybody getting the whatever brand, whether it be Garmin, wahoo, you name it Whoop, whoever, tracking their sleep scores, tracking their HRV, tracking their every step of the day situation and what that looks like and um, what's been interesting is I've been starting to hear across all different sports whether it be uh ball sports or uh cycling or wherever, even in motorsports that yeah, uh, the professionals and the elite level are starting to turn away from these uh, different statistics, and to the point where they may still wear the watch right and their coach can see these stats, but they're turning the display off on their for themselves and they don't look at it, because going back to where we started is the mental aspect and how much it affects on their mental game for sure um, including myself, and a perfect example is this morning, like I did a a two hour pretty high, intense mountain bike ride yesterday doing a bit whatever it was.
Speaker 1Yeah, um had a full night's sleep, had just over eight hours of sleep, which is I think is fine yeah good dinner, good, good after ride, lunch, and then, uh, woke up this morning and my stat said that my training level was one and I should be sitting on the couch right. I woke up perfectly normal, like I felt fine, sure, and I I think with my training over the years I understand when and when I shouldn't be training right and I overrode that and still did my, my training that I had planned today. But I just wonder where and what you've seen over these years with the statistics, I guess yeah, it's a great topic.
Speaker 2So I think all of these tools are. They're insightful, like they give the athlete some insight into what they're doing. So, you know, heart rate monitors became very accessible and you learned that you know your heart rate would do this when you're off your saddle sprinting up a hill and it would do this when you lie down, and that insight and knowledge is helpful. Um, but then we learned that you know if you're not going to win a race based on heart rate as an athlete, um, we need power meters and we're going to train with power meters because that gives us even, you know, it helps us drill down to more important, more relevant information yeah, it's almost more refined.
Speaker 2Yeah, and now we're chasing Watts per kilogram and, and you know our training by FTP, and so, again, that's another level of knowledge that I think. I think it's really insightful. And I think, um, you know, it's not for everybody, like, philosophically, some people don't need more data in their life, but I, I like it, I like looking for the trends and understanding how my body's working. But I, and then with hrv, you know, when it first came out, it was touted as the end all be all. I think for most endurance related athletes, it's even more powerful than for, say, a power athlete or, um, an athlete where conditioning is not as important, and by conditioning I mean, um, you know, an optimum cardiovascular system. But I also have endurance athletes that lived by their whoop and they were still coming up against health issues despite getting the green day after day.
Speaker 2And I think that's where those tools, you know, you just need to understand that they're not the end-all be-all, um, they're, they're important, they're insightful, um, and there's some really great information that it can provide you.
Speaker 2But also, like, with heart rate monitor, I can guess now what my heart rate is and I'll be pretty, nine times out of ten I'll be pretty close. Yeah, um, and that was a result of having a heart rate monitor and wearing a heart rate monitor all the time. So you, you know the HRV and the power meter. It's like those things. As you use them more and more, you become accustomed to what the information is telling you and you can almost guess it. But that is one step further to knowing yourself even better and what's important to pay attention to when it comes time for your event or for quality training. So I think that's part of where the pushback is. Some athletes just get strung up on the data and if they're not getting a green light from their whoop, they're resting when maybe they shouldn't be, or they're beating themselves up because their coach says go, but whoops is not to.
Speaker 2Um, and they'd rather. You know, that's the value of a good coach, but it's also why I like that my athletes learn for themselves. To coach themselves is to understand like, yeah, I'm, I'm getting some of these parameters that are telling me, or some of this feedback that's telling me I'm tired, or, um, you know, I've, I've had a series of days of hard work, um, I'm, you know my, the tools I'm using are telling me I'm good for this session. But if I look at the bigger picture, I actually think a rest day today or or doing a easier ride today is is a good idea, and I think that's, you know. I think at this point, that's where a coach still holds value is in providing that feedback and that insight.
Speaker 1Yeah, I would have to agree there in the sense that I know, with the athletes that I've worked with, and then also, on the flip side, being an athlete and having coached being coached and having coach being coached um, there was one, one person that I was coaching and they have to be careful with how I say this but one person I was coaching and they had insane numbers, like physically they were great, yeah, but and it's almost the opposite to what we're talking about, in the sense that they would give up before they were actually physically done, and then right using these numbers, I was able to show them.
Speaker 1Okay, you got to this point in the race and you were sitting in this position which is whatever it was first or second in the race, yeah, and I can.
Speaker 1Physically. I can see on the screen where you gave up and you can see where your numbers dropped right and then. But on the flip side, I can also see where people uh sorry, and to finish that story, I guess is, yeah, she, they ended up uh, going back to do another race and and followed what we had suggested and what I planned out throughout the race and we talked about and yeah and did very well and didn't give up because they could see these numbers on their screen and then also on the flip side.
Speaker 1I've seen where people, and including myself when I'm racing yeah, I don't want to see some of these numbers because, it gets in my head and it's like, oh, you're working too hard, you're doing this, you're doing that so I know like racing crits. Some of the crit races coming out of covid people had been on trainers for a year and a half and had these insane engines oh, for sure and but couldn't.
Speaker 1Well, they didn't have the bike handling skills to match the engine that they had. Right, it was almost like they were drag cars, yep, but the speeds we were going at, I think on average down there, um, at the local, the local crit was like some them were 48, 49 kilometer averages for an hour. Um, or sorry, down there I think it was 45 minutes, but, um, in saying that, it was just like if I had that number on my screen I would have been blown up in 20 minutes just mentally, so taxing seeing that number. So the only thing, the only two things I had on my screen cadence and the like.
Speaker 1Elapsed time of the race love it because I didn't want to see my heart rate or I didn't want to see my power output. Yeah, because all the speed, for that matter.
Speaker 2Because, because I know what that means and that would play with your head too right.
Speaker 1So it's interesting hearing all these numbers and then relating that to the big picture of the entire day of like, okay, did I get enough sleep? Did I get enough of this? Did?
Speaker 2I do that and how that would affect. But then as a coach, like understanding that you work that way and it's perfectly fine to look at those two numbers For me I knew as soon as somebody said on your mark, get set go, I knew automatically my heart rate would be 10 beats higher, just based on adrenaline, and I'd I'd read that happened with other athletes. So for myself I needed, especially on the longer XC events, I needed the heart rate just to know I was at my just below my red line, you know and to. But I had to take into account it was going to be 10 beats higher than what my training red line would be.
Speaker 1Yeah, which is a good point.
Speaker 2So those, you know, those are some of the other things, whereas if I had just gone by, feel that adrenaline would have carried me along and, you know, I would have been buried. Yeah, too soon, too early, right, so um, because I would have gone above that way, where you would, yeah, where you'd naturally go right number.
Speaker 2Yeah so, but it that's. I think another important part is, as a coach, is helping provide that knowledge when it's helpful, but also helping come up with the systems where it's like, yeah, those numbers you're looking at on your screen, that's all you need to know.
Speaker 1Yeah, exactly, and I think going back to what you're saying is perfect in that sense, and how you build that out in the athlete, I guess depends on what that is, but um, and there's, you know, like strava is an example.
Speaker 2Some people love strava, some people hate it. I love it as a training journal. Um, you know, I can look back at previous rides, but also now I'm at a stage where it's humbling to look at where I was five years ago at a different stage of my life and compare those numbers to now. It just means I need to go ride some new trails and not look at my Strava at the end of the ride and base whether or not that was a good ride. Based on a Strava number, which is, you know, uh, depending on who you are, is kind of ridiculous to say that you know like yeah and yeah, but it is uh. For me it's fun to see progress, and so that was always a motivator when I had the luxury of um pushing. Uh, you know my, my writing um in that style, in that format yeah, for sure, I completely agree.
Speaker 1I guess that's a perfect like jump into. The next bit that I want to ask you about is pro versus amateur, because I know you've worked with a lot of different level people. Yeah, how is the professional guys, guys, girls, people yeah trickled down into like what you do with the amateurs? Because obviously, when someone's being paid to do the sport that they want to do, sure, that's obviously a very different aspect to someone that's paying to play, yeah, um, but at the same time, I think there's so much you can learn from these top level athletes and how that relates like how have you seen that trickle down a lot?
High Performance Training and Consumer Technology
Speaker 2I know you mentioned like power majors and stuff yeah, I like, I really like the, I I like racing um so irregardless of the sport, and so one of the sports I enjoy watching, uh, from time to time, is f1 and so you know the what's the purpose of f1 racing. Well, it'd be nice to think, as a consumer, that some ounce of that technology and that that drive for, um, high performance is trickling down.
Speaker 2I think that's part of the marketing behind Mercedes-Benz these days is you know that what's happening in that field, like you're not no one's kidding themselves that they're driving a high performance um themselves, that they're driving a high performance um f1 car, but some of that technology is eventually trickling down to to what we're driving as consumers. I think less so now, like I think that the difference between what those people are performing in and what we're getting as consumers are very different. But um and I'm sure a car designer can confirm or deny that statement- but, I think it's the same with training.
Speaker 2Like, what works for those high-level athletes is they're human beings and so a lot of it trickles down. The program itself isn't very different between my young high-performance athletes and those older age group athletes. The program's the same, actually, but what's different is you know the training age, you know how long they've spent in the gym, how long they've been training at a high level. That's an advantage for some of the older athletes that have been training with me for over a decade. Yeah, but then and I've mentioned this before but it's also comes down to their resources. Like you know, they have careers they're trying to manage. They have families or relationships they're trying to manage. They have, you know, they're concerned about putting food on the table, all these elements, whereas that younger athlete, it's different. Like, they tend to have more time available. Um, they can get out on the bike more often. They may or may not be well-funded, you know. Like there's, the resources are different, and so, you know, their ability to recover will be higher.
Speaker 2You know meals might be cooked for them already or whichever right, or they're not worried about where their next bike is coming from, so they can focus more on achieving their high performance and their recovery is quicker. Just through and through, they bounce back quicker. So you know, know, with those younger athletes, the skill of lifting is really important to me, um, you know, if I've had the chance to work with them for a season and I never see them again, you know I'm, I'm. I want them to be confident to walk into a gym and know how to deadlift well, or know, know how to do the various exercises well, know what good gym etiquette is, so they can walk into a public gym, do a good workout and people aren't alarmed or they're not putting themselves or others in danger. So that's an aspect of what we touch on with everyone. But I think one of the biggest pieces of value for the younger athletes is, you know, that's a, that's an activity that can um access at any point in any stage of their life.
Speaker 2And so instilling in them good habits and good skill is, uh one of the things I want them to be able to take away.
Speaker 1Yeah, definitely no, I completely agree, so so, no, that's all good. Um, we're coming coming up to like just almost an hour now yeah um, is there any coach you want to touch on before we finish up?
BMX Racing Team Development Expansion
Speaker 2yeah, just looking ahead to 2025, like the dry land program's in effect, and so, um, we'll open up that program again next november. But people that are curious or interested, we've run it over the summer and so you can sign up on a month-per-month basis. The hybrid program is evolving and we're looking to add some more sessions. Those run six weeks at a time, so there's opportunity right around the holidays to sign up. For the next segment, we're looking for staff need a another trainer or two, um, that's comfortable in the gym and can relate it to, uh, cycling, um, but also more coaches. And then the other thing we're really excited about is the development race team with the local bmX club.
Speaker 2That's been a really fun project and you know we're we're looking to expand that to an adult's team as well.
Speaker 1Yeah, we didn't even really touch on the BMX team, but no, that's maybe another conversation.
Speaker 2But, it's been. You know it's been really fun to manage and coach that team with my partner, ellen. There's a lot of talented riders in this part of the world and BMX racing had always been on my radar, but it's only in the last couple of years that I've gotten really involved with the club and with racing and coaching the club and with, uh, with racing and coaching, it's been really fun. And, um, we can another time we'll talk about some of the things that um, I've learned through that experience. But, um, you know, it's if for listeners out there that have um children that they want to introduce to riding the bmx club is a great way to do it. And, uh, and it's a great way to do it as a family, too much like mountain biking, you can have various generations on the track riding and training together.
Speaker 2So it's uh, yeah, lots of exciting stuff looking ahead nice, yeah, very nice yeah, I really appreciate you giving me the time to share some of what's going on.
Speaker 1Yeah, no problems at all. Yeah.
Speaker 2These are always topics that I love to nerd out on, so yeah, you and me both, I think, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1Yeah, no, thank you for coming in and sharing your knowledge. And yeah, we'll have to get back on to talk more about the bmx in the new year, I think yeah, thanks so much, jared, um my pleasure no problems awesome.
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