Aaron Dobie - How Broken Are Pro Mountain Bikers Really?

It's a side of the sport most fans never see. Between race runs, podiums, and highlight clips, many athletes are dealing with injuries, recovery plans, and the constant challenge of staying healthy enough to perform at the highest level.

Today's guest is Aaron Dobie, physiotherapist, strength coach, bike fitter, elite racer, and one of the people working behind the scenes with athletes when things don't go according to plan. From the UCI World Cup circuit working across downhill, enduro, to skiing, and endurance sports, Aaron has built a career around performance, recovery, and helping athletes stay competitive when the margins are razor thin.

In this episode, we dive into the reality of injuries in mountain biking, the difference between working with elite athletes and everyday riders, what actually separates the pros, and how athletes manage performance and recovery throughout a season.

We also discuss concussion protocols, building the rehab team for Hardline Cypress, bike fitting, body maintenance, injury prevention, and some of the wild stories that come from life behind the scenes at World Cups and major events.

Whether you're chasing podiums or just trying to ride pain-free, there's plenty to take away from this one.

Share it with your riding crew, hit follow, and tell us where you want to ride, the next chapter starts right now.

• Get in touch via my Instagram
• Hosted and Produced by Jarrad Connolly

Transcript

Aaron Dobie And Elite Support

Jarrad 0:00

Today's guest is someone who spent many years keeping the world's fastest athlete in mountain biking held together when things get wild. Welcome to the Dynamic Life Cycles podcast, Aaron Dobie. Aaron is a physiotherapist, strength coach, bike fitter, elite racer, and one of the people working behind the scenes at the highest level of the sport. From the UCI World Cup circuit to working with pro riders across downhill, indu skiing, and endurance sports, he's built a reputation around performance recovery and getting athletes back when the margins are razor thin. He's worked with many brands and organizations, and this year he's leading and building the rehab team for Hardline Cyprus by developing their concussion protocols for one of the most demanding events in mountain biking. In this episode, we get into the difference between working with elite athletes and everyday riders, what it actually takes to separate the pros, the reality of the injuries in mountain biking, and how riders are managing performance and recovery at the highest level today. So let's get into it. I hope you enjoyed the listen. Which basically means two things. So if you want to put back in the podcast, the easiest and the highest impact thing you can do is hit subscribe. It takes two seconds and it makes a massive difference. While you're there, leave a like and send us a comment on who you want to see on the Dynamic Life Cycles podcast, and I'll do my best to get them on. Alright, back to the episode.

Trail Running To Find New Trails

Jarrad 2:05

Alright, Aaron, how are you? Good, how are you? Good. You're just saying you got back from the grind. I did, yeah. How was that?

Aaron Dobie 2:13

Good, yeah. Had to fit in a workout before coming to record the podcast. It's a rainy day in Vancouver. Um, yeah. Nice. I'm a bit of a closet trail runner, so uh outside of mountain bikes, trail running's my uh number two.

Jarrad 2:26

There's uh it's such a weird one because I wish I could say I love trail running because I love running, but trail running I just can't do because of mountain biking. I always trip over my own feet, and it's just like I don't know, I think I look too far down the trail. I don't know.

Aaron Dobie 2:43

Do you find that or not really? Yeah, I to be honest, I got into trail running trying to sniff out bike trails. So rather than pushing your bike through the bushes trying to find where new trails are, yeah, I would go sniff it out on foot. So that's one thing. And it's also fun to go places where bikes can't take you, so there's plenty of trails on the North Shore and in BC that you can where you can go places on foot that bikes can't get you. So those are kind of the two reasons.

Jarrad 3:08

It's definitely a good way to find where where the trail ends before you have to push back out and climb out with a 40-pound

Building A Downtown Physio Practice

Jarrad 3:15

bike on your back.

Aaron Dobie 3:16

For sure, for sure.

Jarrad 3:17

So it's been like four or five years since we did the last podcast. Yeah. What's been going on?

Aaron Dobie 3:24

Yeah, I guess when I maybe not that long. Um, because I think I had just moved back from Europe. I was living in Europe working on the World Cup circuit, and then I just got back, so it would have been like, yeah, the end of 23, I want to say.

Jarrad 3:36

Uh 22. 22, okay. End of 22, yeah.

Aaron Dobie 3:39

Um, so yeah, I would have done some time in Europe after that. Um, yeah, so we're still in Vancouver. Yeah, we're doing a lot of the same stuff, some different stuff, I guess. Yeah, I have an office of my own downtown now. I have my own gym and office downtown uh for physiotherapy and the performance uh based stuff that I do. So a lot of strength and conditioning um and like rehab for riders, and uh I also do bike fitting out of there as well. Um and yeah, that's that's kind of kind of me. Still do a fair bit of remote coaching uh for programming and for the physical preparation side of things. Um yeah, nice.

Jarrad 4:20

Are you doing much travel still? Because you were just in New Zealand, were you not?

Aaron Dobie 4:24

Yeah, that was actually for my own trip. Bikes has not taken me to New Zealand, so yeah, that was my wife and my honeymoon. Uh yes, congratulations. Thanks. Yeah, we were there for a month, so that was like biking and hiking, and that was a pretty awesome trip. So yeah.

Jarrad 4:37

Yeah, whereabouts down there were you?

Aaron Dobie 4:39

We did the North Island and the South Island, yeah. So we did we did like a pretty pretty good job. I we can there's a few spots we didn't make it to, but but gotta go back, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So took our bikes.

Jarrad 4:49

Any highlights down there? Because there's so much to see down there.

Aaron Dobie 4:52

Yeah. Um Queenstown was just really awesome riding, and like that blew me away with like ever how accessible everything was. It's like a little mini whistler, like that was that was pretty cool to see that like something as high level as with whistler exists uh down there as well.

Jarrad 5:09

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, it's it's pretty wild, like it's like just the amount of black riding in general, I would say.

Aaron Dobie 5:18

For sure. And then for

Inside A World Cup Team Machine

Aaron Dobie 5:20

work last year, um, I guess my big trip would have been I was working with the Santa Cruz Syndicate at Lake Placid. So I traveled with them, I got the call up, yeah, to could it to go do some work with Syndicate for the the North America round. Yeah, and then um yeah, so that's kind of more I'm still I'm at home like full time, but then I'm kind of getting asked to do different projects here and there that I'm like filling in for, which is a which is a good balance now. Like I was away for three years traveling the circuit, and then now it's kind of nice to kind of fill in where needed, and I've got a few different projects going on that I think we'll talk about.

Jarrad 5:54

Yeah, for sure. How was it with the Syndicate? Obviously, they're in the title fight at that point, and like how was that being around that team and that energy?

Aaron Dobie 6:04

Yeah, that was cool. That is a high performance team, like they're in it to win, they're in it to do well. Um, all resources, human, human resources and product and everything is all in the direction of winning. And they had a really good team manager, Seb Kemp, uh, last year that was really good at directing the team and pushing in the right, like pushing everyone in the right direction. And yeah, it was really cool to be part of it.

Jarrad 6:28

Yeah, yeah, he's insane. Like I've done a little bit of work alongside him. I wouldn't say I worked with him as such, because he's more marketing than than sales and retail, but uh every time I've had anything to do with him, he's just like he knows exactly what to say, when to say it, how to say it. Like it's just I could fully understand that.

Aaron Dobie 6:46

Yeah, and like throughout the my time at the races, I've been with teams that are small shows where you know the physio is also helping cook and maybe grocery shop, and we're all kind of almost like a it's almost like a road trip with your buddies where where everyone's kind of helping out and you're everyone's driving the vehicle and and trying to make the the race team work, and and then I've also been that's kind of the other side of the of the spectrum where it's like we had a team cook, we had a bus driver, you got lines people, you got the physio, and like my job was to be the physio in like the medical side of things and do a really good job at it, and I didn't have to worry about anything else, yeah. So so that was really cool to see how everyone has like a place and and just work on stay in your lane and the whole operation goes well.

Jarrad 7:31

Have you done much time outside of obviously these couple of races with other teams at that level? And the reason I ask is because we hear all of these um like obviously with Warner Brothers taking over and all the changes and and bits and pieces, and I'm I would say I'm for the changes in the sense of making the sport more professional, but do you see that now that it's somewhat limited with how many riders get in and how many riders are being pushed to that direction? Do you see more resources being funnelled directly, I guess, into those teams versus being spread across multiple teams?

Aaron Dobie 8:09

Yeah, I think there still is a spot for some privateer-ish.

Jarrad 8:14

Yeah, and I I don't I don't want to don't want to say that privateers shouldn't be a part of it. Because I definitely think if you're fast enough to race, you should be in the main show. But in the sense of like I guess like funneling everything into more of a direct system.

Aaron Dobie 8:31

Yeah, that's for sure the most like high performance team I've worked with. I got uh some good opportunities previously working with Norco with their XE program when they were leading into one of the Olympics. I want to say that might have been Tokyo. Okay. Um, that was kind of cool to see how that was going. But yeah, again, this was like a level above that for sure. Yeah. Um, and then also like I've had some experience with um Freestyle Ski Canada, okay, where that's like an Olympic program. Yeah, and so that was neat because again, that's a bit more like high performance focused, results focused, and again, where the physiotherapist's job is to be a physio, yeah, or like run the medical side of the program, and there's even like a strength and conditioning coach that travels with the team, and so versus like the other side of the spectrum, where maybe some of the EWS teams that I worked with was a little bit smaller, smaller scale, where it's just like a van, three riders, two mechanics, and a manager and a physio kind of like making it work, blending which are both of them are awesome, so

Why Support Creates Consistent Results

Aaron Dobie 9:30

yeah, yeah.

Jarrad 9:31

So talking about like privateers and and the smaller teams versus some of these bigger teams, what would you say is some like the main differences you see with some of those riders? Like if you were to take Jackson or Louick or those guys and then compare them to like that rider that may be in that 30 to 60th place, what are you seeing different that they're doing from your side of things? Like, obviously, there's riding aspect and there's technique and all the rest of it, but obviously you're seeing it from a physio, a strength coach, uh you know what I mean. Like, is there guys out there that are just like unlucky with the talent that they're given versus the the ability to push themselves, or is it you know what I mean?

Aaron Dobie 10:15

I think it's I think more when like there's all those resources going into the rider, and for the rider to get the result when they're sitting in the start gate, they know that like this whole entourage travels with them all week, you know, everything's been dealt with from breakfast, lunch, and dinner to snacks to physio to mechanicking to spare parts to spare bikes to everything that they are motivated to put the best run down that they can because everyone's behind them rooting for them, and it's that team that team-based approach is like really does create results. Whereas in a smaller operation might have less of that, those components that really like build the rider up to like make them throw down on a race run, yeah. Um, especially when it is down, if we're talking about downhill where you just have to block it all out and turn off and just go and push, right? Um, yeah.

Jarrad 11:08

Do you see that in the gym with some of the people that you're working with, like in the sense of like the difference of attitude slash their approaches?

Aaron Dobie 11:18

Yeah, like I think if with a big team, when they know those resources are behind them, they're in the offseason, they know they need to turn up. They do need to turn up, right? Like, um, especially with some of your like younger, like younger riders getting an opportunity to be a junior on the syndicate or something like that, like they're gonna take that opportunity and try to make the most of it. So that's definitely gonna make them push harder in the gym and take their training serious more serious for sure.

Jarrad 11:45

Yeah. Do you think that like that pressure sometimes makes them overdo it though? In the sense of like if they are hurt or if they're like unsure about something, and it's like if I don't do this gap, I'm maybe a second down, or you know, like do you from where you're standing in in that medical side of things, which obviously you have to be mindful of like okay, these people are getting paid to do their job, and and essentially whether it be race uh across country or XC or uh downhill or whatever, like do you see that pressure come out in them sometimes?

Aaron Dobie 12:23

For sure. I think I think yeah, you that's a big that's a big question, I guess, but like they don't want to do bad they don't want to do wrong to the team and and they might hide hide an ache or or or make something feel like it's or make something sound like it's not as serious as it is because they just want to m move with the team and keep the team happy and and uh compete when there might be something something more serious going on. Is that kind of what you're asking?

Jarrad 12:53

Yeah, I I guess like I'm just wondering whether like yeah, you if you see people like and you like kind of almost have to second guess what they're telling you, I guess, in the sense of like, okay, like I can tell that you're in pain, but you're telling me it's a one out of ten. And do you see that often or not really? No, it's pretty they're pretty honest.

Aaron Dobie 13:14

No, I'd say most people are pretty honest, and I'd say they're they're honest with me when it is like one-on-one in our like physiotherapy sessions, like in the evenings and stuff like that. That's when they can like tell me, and then it's my job to liaise that to a to a team manager for sure. But I guess more what I was saying earlier was that like some like riders don't want to be seen as difficult uh to the to the team when all those resources are behind them, so they might not complain about bike setup or they might not complain about how their back hurts, and it might take a little bit more to like pry out of them that they are feeling uncomfortable either riding the bike or because of back pain is more what I was speaking on.

Jarrad 13:53

Yeah, that's fair. Um what do you I'm just trying to think if there was anything else I wanted to ask you about that because I feel like that elite athlete versus average person is always like the argument of like, oh yeah, if I got all of the extra stuff, would I be that much better? But it's like yeah, like when you're in the gym, do you see much difference with that?

Aaron Dobie 14:16

Well well, if you're comparing elite to like elite to average average rider, like I I try to break it down performance as being the mental, the physical, the tactical, and the technical. Yeah. So if you think of like the the tactical, the tactical piece is like the bike, the team support, lines, line choice, that kind of stuff, and like that really gets elevated with like team support, like having someone on the track to tell you what lines to do, um, having someone review your GoPro and that like team approach there is definitely gonna help. Suspension tuning, all that's like tactical. Technical skill is just how good you are at riding a bike. So that that comes with the rider, um, and then the mental and the physical can definitely be trained. So I guess like the big piece of your comp would be the tactical piece that would come with like a lot of team support that would help elevate, help elevate a rider.

Jarrad 15:11

Yeah, it's always always a super interesting one because it's like exactly as you say, I think like that mental and and uh like skills that you have generally. The mental, yes, you can train the skills, obviously you can be coached, but there is definitely somewhat of a limit depending on how all of those balance out.

Aaron Dobie 15:33

Yeah, and I think like I don't want to speak for team managers, but I think a lot of team managers look for an up-and-coming rider to get like one big result, and if they can do it once, a lot of the team managers are like, okay, as a privateer, they got a they got a podium or got a a strong result. If we put a team behind them, they can probably do that consistently. Yeah. Whereas like there's so many variables like broken wheels and all sorts of different things that like prevent a an up-and-coming rider from being successful, but but uh if you put a proper team behind them where they're getting fresh wheels every run and and like nutrition and and every and physio and everything to like build them up, like that's where that's where that that one off that one-off win becomes like a consistency and when they can contend for an overall, yeah, definitely.

Jarrad 16:21

I would have to agree, like in the sense of just like that overall confidence of the rider must be huge when they have like all the support

When Women Close The Performance Gap

Jarrad 16:30

you can get.

Aaron Dobie 16:30

For sure.

Jarrad 16:31

When you're in the gym, and this is a little bit off topic to what I was just thinking about, but a question and a bit of a opinion that I've started to think about, and I kind of want your opinion on this being that you're in the gym and strength coach and stuff. At what point do you think women will be able to match men? In the sense of like you look at some of the guys, like look at Jackson, for instance. You can't tell me that some of the women out there are not stronger, fitter, faster, like just physically better than what Jackson is. Do you think that there's going to be a point? And I've had this conversation with like a ton of different people, male, female, everybody included, and it's like at some point, surely the resources behind women and the science behind the women, uh, to what they can do and how they can get to that point, surely they have to get there at some point.

Aaron Dobie 17:28

I think it's I think it's already there.

Jarrad 17:30

Yeah.

Aaron Dobie 17:30

I think it's for on the physical side. So if we're using those four, the physical, the tactical, the technical, and the mental. Uh the physical's there. Like, and I don't I think Jackson would be the first person to say that his physical isn't probably his top, yeah, his top like sector of of his ability. But then like look at some of the stuff he was doing technically at Champourie and like world champs. Like he was getting higher on on lines and setups, doing things almost like he was riding a like a dirt jump bike in a skate park, but he was on a downhill course, like his technical skill is insane. And then I got to experience his mental toughness in that second last race last year, and he is mentally strong, he knows what he needs to do. He didn't qualify that well that at that race. He went to bed, he locked in and he threw down and he had a really good last two races of the year. So so that like he's got those two kind of pieces that are really like those sectors of his of his performance are really high, and uh, and then the tactical piece, he's got the V T V10 underneath him, and he's got he's got the team the team with him. So I think like may you know he doesn't maybe need to work on the physical, and or maybe that's something he's been working on this offseason. So yeah, there you go. So for everyone's got to work on their lowest hanging fruit. So I think with your comment about the women's piece, it's like yeah, I think there are definitely like like a lot of really strong and physically fit women that are out there that like yeah, pound for pound might be stronger than or more fit than than a male rider for sure already.

Jarrad 19:05

Yeah, yeah, and it's it's just something that like obviously with so much of the women's movement happening over the last let's say ten years, eight to ten years, whatever you want to call it, I just feel like the the way that they've been given so much more technology, so much more science behind it, and all the rest of it, like obviously they're gonna be behind in that like natural skill set that I feel like the the guys have been working on for 20 plus years longer than what the women generally have been. Yeah, um, but it's yeah, it's just something that has come up in conversation. I thought you'd be like a good person to like run that past in your world.

Aaron Dobie 19:46

Interesting example. I work for the last few years I've worked with Sasha Ernest, she's a trek factory. Um, she comes from BMX, yeah. And so you watch her ride a bike and she's technically sound, like she knows how to ride a bike, she knows how to pump, she knows how to like jump, she's like quite a good rider. And so actually, some what some of her lowest hanging fruit has been the physical piece. Yeah, um, so that's what we've been working on. Um but so I think maybe yeah, maybe like them not I don't want to say the majority of women, but it's at it's at that the hours that they get on mountain bikes, they don't have as many hours as maybe males because they got to mountain biking later, yeah, potentially. Um, but whereas Sasha like grew up on a BMX, so she's has more hours, yeah. Yeah, potentially.

Jarrad 20:32

And like I feel like you've seen that a little bit with people like Caroline Buchanan and and and any of those that have done that sort of transition as well. Um, like yeah, any of those top elite women are insane in general. For sure.

Aaron Dobie 20:47

But I always for performance I always come back to those four. Yeah. And it kind of you can kind of look at a rider and then like pick where they're where they're doing really well and and then where they're not.

Jarrad 20:56

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um going back to talking about being

Race Week Routine And Medical Calls

Jarrad 21:00

at the World Cup and stuff like that, what does your you've you kind of touched it on a little bit, but what does your daily routine look like? Are you when you're there, is it generally because you're there with a single team or are you there with multiple teams or how's that work?

Aaron Dobie 21:17

Single team. I've never done anything uh in past that's been like neutral service or like neutral support. It's always been yeah, representing a team. At the EWS is definitely like when that was maybe a little bit thinner of an overall uh event, I would definitely have to fill in and and help riders when they went down. And I was like when I was with the Ibis team for a couple of years on the Enduro World Series, I uh they were definitely okay with me going to help like help people on other teams that didn't have physio, like if it if it helped out. And that's kind of the spirit of Enduro in a sense as well. But more recently, uh like when I was with the syndicate, I was just with them. My like day to day roles. Um Um yeah, like uh I would say like I always like the the thought of being invisible but available. Like you don't want to be in the way, you don't want to be too like out there, but like the second your phone you get a text or the radio fires off, if someone needs you, you're you're there and you have you have what they need. Um just because yeah, you're you're you're a value add to the program. Like there's a lot of back and forth between the mechanic and the rider, and like you don't want to get in the way of that. But then like, yeah, if a rider's like shoulder needs assessment or it needs to be worked on because it's feeling like X, Y, or Z, um, yeah, then then you're there to help them.

Jarrad 22:40

Yeah, yeah, that's fair. And like when you're at the races, and obviously you're working with a lot of the local professional athletes here. Are you seeing them at the races even though you're with another team, or is it pretty much once you're there, you're there for them only, and it's like you wave across the pits and that's about it?

Aaron Dobie 22:58

Or no, for sure. I definitely like definitely try and help different riders. Like I work with Jonathan Helly, and he was he was there in Lake Placid and stuff, and definitely try to like help, especially the Canadian riders. Like you gotta make sure you're you're there making yourself available for them for sure. So yeah, that's pretty sweet.

Jarrad 23:14

Yeah, so no, yeah, as I say, it's it's always interesting hearing, especially as you say, like that value added. Like obviously a mechanic is like pretty hands-on, always in there one-on-one with the rider, but then like the cooks or the like people like yourself, the physios and and the medical and and whoever else is around that team, maybe like not directly with the rider, but all all adds into it. And yeah, for sure.

Aaron Dobie 23:41

And like I would find with my rule, it's like when it's on, it's on, because like a rider's crash, and then there's time pressure because there's qualifying coming up, and you need to do an assessment to rule like to determine if they're uh fit to return to play or not, and and make those decisions and decide how you're gonna get them to return to play, and like so it's yeah, it can be definitely a lot of like waiting around, but then when it's like when it's happening.

Jarrad 24:06

Is is there much pressure on the decision of return to play? Because obviously, like let's just take Ryder X and they're they're very high up in the point standing. It's like, well, if they if under your guidance you say you shouldn't be riding and they miss the race, like obviously there's like a lot of pressure there. Like, how do you go about that? And obviously, is there a lot of conversation backwards and forwards?

Aaron Dobie 24:32

Yeah, for sure. You gotta like there's a lot of clinical decision like making uh in those situations for sure. Um but you definitely have to come back on like the long-term health of the of the rider for sure, and like that they understand that as well. Like they definitely understand that. But um I would say like in most situations you really only the rider like really only needs to be pulled back, maybe like 10% if they really like they're they know down deep that they're not they're not good to go. And to be honest, that's actually I think one of the interesting changes with how downhill's gotten so um hard to qualify is that more recently when I'm doing like assessing um riders that are trying to determine if they are are fit to play, they know that they're not gonna be able to qualify just either because their their mental confidence is out the window or their neck is sore or their wrist is sore or whatever, so they they know just to sit out because it's not even it's not even possible. It's not even possible anymore. If they were already like yeah, you know, fighting to qualify, then they just know it's not their day.

Jarrad 25:46

Yeah, yeah, actually that's a good point. I hadn't sort of thought about that. Like, I guess when it was like the top 80 riders, they could probably swing a run together to get into that top 80, give themselves 24 hours, and then they're good to go.

Aaron Dobie 26:00

Yeah, and that's actually I recently had a video call with with a with a rider um who had hurt their knee, and um that was was actually I'd come full circle on that. It was just how hard it is to qualify and that that exact concept where it actually ended up being better that the rider just went home and got the care they needed rather than rather than heading to Loudonville here coming up and and racing. They went back to their home country to just like fully lock in on rehab, they don't have to sit around on a on a on a bus to travel eight hours from across Europe, then where that's not gonna help their knee. They like just flew home and they're doing all the work at home to to get better. Um, just because yeah, they were already like one of the gonna be one of the last 10 riders to qualify on their best day anyway. Yeah. So yeah.

Jarrad 26:49

Yeah, yeah, as I say, pretty interesting concept. Like it's it's definitely changing for that that style. And I guess that's like the whole protected rider thing is also another hot topic that's like completely different from what we're talking about, but like I guess that plays into the the thought patterns as well, for sure.

Aaron Dobie 27:10

So yeah, maybe there's a bit of a benefit, benefit that more riders will be confident sitting out, just because like that build of the week from practice one to qualifying needs to go really well. Um, and you need to ensure that like your fastest lap is qualifying, and then your second fast your faster lap after that is your base run, right?

Jarrad 27:32

Yeah, yeah. It's I know talking to a few guys that have uh have been in that world, and it's like you used to be able to like 85-90% and you'd be in, but like when they're talking what less than two seconds to get into the top 35 of the men is like you may as well be wide open from the get-go. It's like insane. Yeah.

Injury Prevention Basics That Still Work

Jarrad 27:55

Um, talking a bit about like injury prevention and things like that, and like obviously what you were just saying then of like going home and actually doing the rehab and and things like that, like what are some of the main things that you're you're seeing that's changed over the years? Because obviously bikes have changed, track speeds changed, like the roughness, whether the tracks are slightly straighter, slightly more I would say they're more straighter than they've ever been, but like are you seeing a difference in that and also the difference in the science behind like that rehab type of stuff, and the almost the prevention, I guess, before the rehab, but yeah.

Aaron Dobie 28:36

Sorry, like go ahead. There's a there's a lot lot in that question.

Jarrad 28:41

Um so, in the sense of like as things have changed over the time, uh when like we're talking like five, six, seven years ago, obviously wheel sizes have changed, tracks have changed, things like that. Are you seeing a difference in the science of the the injury or science of preventing the injuries and things like that as well that sort of match that change of the sport?

Aaron Dobie 29:05

Yeah. Um I try to keep it pretty simple when it comes to when it comes to like the physical preparation side of things. I think there's always going to be a new toy, new device, which like many of them are many of them are good. But like when it comes to when it comes to strength and conditioning and the physical preparation to ride a bike, we're trying to build someone's capacity. We're trying to make their gas tank bigger so they can they can do more, go faster, or and go faster for longer. Um, and doing simple, simple stuff well is gonna be better than you know, yeah, some kind of new crazy exercise or or whatever. Um and also just because like the majority of the time that they should be should be spending on their training should be in the domain the domain that they compete in, which is riding their bike. So never will the indoor chain never really should the indoor training in the gym and stuff be greater than their on bike training. Yeah. Unless there's environmental restrictions, like someone someone lives in Rosalind or Nelson or or wherever in the world where there's snow where they can't ride their bike, right? So um, yeah, I don't think anything on the I don't think anything on the like preventative or just the physical preparation side um has really changed too much, I would say for me. Like it's it's yeah, doing the basics well and and consistency is the key. Like trying to like have those week after week after week where you're you're getting those two to three sessions in the gym a week, you're getting those, you know, two sessions of intervals or whatever, whatever the program is, and just like rolling, getting that that program rolling where there isn't sickness, where there isn't, you know, weeks where where um where travel and and other obligations get in the way. On the

Blood Flow Restriction Rehab Explained

Aaron Dobie 30:50

rehab side, uh things that have changed, the first one I guess that would come to mind is blood flow restriction. I don't know if if you've heard of that before.

Jarrad 30:59

Yeah, tell tell me about this.

Aaron Dobie 31:00

Yeah, so essentially, like if if a if you're hurt and you're trying to maintain maintain muscle mass and maintain strength, say you have like a knee ligament injury, and you're you're like trying to rehab it, um blood flow restriction is essentially a really fancy blood pressure cuff. And so you can they the sensors in these in these cuffs can determine how much pressure, millimeters mercury, is required to completely occlude all the blood vessels uh going into the leg. And from that, uh you can determine you can set the pressure to be 70% occlusion, 80% occlusion, 90% occlusion. And essentially what happens when you are exercising and strength training at a very high intensity is you become hypoxic. And so your body gobbles up all the oxygen that's in the muscle. And when you get to rep eight of like a squat, there isn't very much oxygen left in the muscle, and that's the burn you feel. And so essentially with blood flow restriction, you can mimic a hypoxic environment, but then you can be doing a very simple exercise like a two-pound knee extension with this blood pressure cuff on at 80% at 80% occlusion. And then, and then so a rider could have an ACL injury, but they can they can essentially be squatting um or just by doing knee extension or glute bridges or leg lifts uh to maintain their muscle mass. And that's definitely been a bit of a game changer in the in the last few years that like that uh an athlete and and even just anyone, like I actually I actually have ones in my office that I lend out to people um because it's it's a way of maintaining muscle mass and even gaining gaining hyper muscle mass uh and strength uh through like an acute phase of an injury when you can't actually train properly uh and you can't squat.

Jarrad 32:48

Yeah, that makes so much sense. I remember seeing, I want to say it was a few years ago now, but Ryan Scheckler did it, had a massive knee injury, and I can't remember what exactly it was, but the video was him essentially walking up the stairs and 10 sets of stairs, and he's like third time walking up the stairs. He's like, dude, I can't even walk up it anymore. And obviously they had the the band on probably pretty high because of who he is and and what he was trying to achieve. But uh that that explanation makes so much more sense to like what was happening.

Aaron Dobie 33:24

And I was like, kind of weird that he's like cutting off circulation, but like, yeah, I guess you're trying to create an environment as if you were getting hypoxic from from like high-intense exercise. The the the use of blood flow restriction has been used in bodybuilding for years and years and years and years. Okay, what is come from these devices is the ability to sense the percentage of occlusion. Yeah. Um, and that's where science is and research has been able to be done on, and now we actually have some pretty good protocols on doing these these many reps with this exercise at 70% occlusion uh for ACL to maintain quad strength, or uh various there's various uh protocols, and actually a lot of Canadian researchers are involved, uh are involved in blood flow restriction, which is really cool.

Jarrad 34:09

Yeah, yeah, I'd say that's that's pretty insane. Like not knowing about it, but now like somewhat understanding it, understanding what you're talking about, like, yeah, that's it's kind of sick that you can have essentially almost a zero load weight-bearing limb and still maintain muscle mass, because it's like so often do you hear people are like, Oh yeah, I broke my femur, I broke my leg, or I did this, and then it's like my leg's half the size that it used to be like.

Aaron Dobie 34:36

For sure. And there's even like research showing that um on like day zero post-op for lower extremity injuries, just like occluding pressure for a minute and then releasing it and including it for a minute and releasing it, um, can have benefits on like maintaining muscle mass just from just from that stimulation, even when they're not doing

Cold Plunges And Recovery Reality Check

Aaron Dobie 34:55

exercises.

Jarrad 34:56

Yeah, yeah. So a bit of a side question to this, because there's so much research for and against it and talking about blood flow, but like the cold plunge, whether you want to call it a trend, whether you want to call it a fad, whatever you want to call it, what's your opinion on it? Because I know I've done it myself, and after a hard ride, whether it's placebo or not, I feel like it feels pretty good, but I feel like there's also a point where it stops doing anything. Like if you were to do like a hard training session every week, and then you do it 10 weeks in a row with the cold plunge and blah blah blah. I feel like it gets to a point where that recovery, obviously, your body just adapts to to what's happening, but like I think you're right. Is what do you see with that from your side of things?

Aaron Dobie 35:48

Yeah, I like I like to say placebo is a hell of a drug. Um, and so I think I always say to clients with that stuff, like, if you think it's helping, it's it's helping. Like, that's the first step to to anything working, is the belief that it's working. So um I'm all in that with them doing that, as long as they're already getting the big the big building blocks are already being done, right? So that's like cold plunge and all that's gonna be tertiary after like some of the primary and secondary like parts of rehab neat are the like non-negotiables are being accomplished. If they want to like work with the massage gun or the cold plunge or that kind of stuff, like I'm I'm all in for that as long as the primary and secondary like key items are being boxes are being ticked. Yeah, yeah.

Jarrad 36:34

Yeah, and I'd have to agree. And like as I'm saying it out loud now, I'm like, yeah, definitely after quite a few weeks that placebo maybe not so much goes away, but like definitely the body adapts to it, and it's like yeah, and so that there's so many of those things, like, and I often say to people, like, you know, the massage gun and foam rolling is a supplement, not a substitute, yeah.

Aaron Dobie 36:55

Meaning like mobility drills and like those mobility exercises are gonna be your primary, and then like if that's already been done, hop on the foam roller, grab the massage gun, lie on the couch, watch a movie, and massage your legs. But like, I don't think that's like gonna substitute uh good mobility, like stretching and and that stuff.

Jarrad 37:14

Yeah. Have you seen where's my brain going with that? Like the whole stretching side of things. There's so many different aspects of the stretching, whether it be like dynamic stretching and uh getting the right balance between like your quad versus your glute and things like that. And I always hear people are like, Oh yeah, I'm so flexible, I can touch my toes. I'm like, Yeah, but can your foot touch your ass? Like how important is it to get that balance?

Aaron Dobie 37:46

Yeah, I guess that's like my job that I do in an assessment, and I try to like explain that to people like your your mobility and your strength is always has to be relative to something. So it's like, are your quads tight relative to your hamstrings, like your front tight relative to the back of your thigh? Because you only want to work on your lowest hanging fruit. So there's no no you might as well work on the one that's like has worse mobility, and then we reassess and see where where we are now, and then make maybe we change that, change that. Um same thing with strength, right? You're gonna like test strength and compare that to like norms, like what should your strength be, and then find where again where you're the where the gap between what it should be and where you are is the greatest, and work on that. So um, and that's again the the assessment piece, and that's the part where that I love is just like trying to work on someone's lowest hanging fruit and making sure that like the time they're spending in the gym is the most productive, um, because if they're working on the thing they're the worst at, they're gonna see the most improvement.

Jarrad 38:46

How do you determine like the lowest hanging fruit? Because I feel like some people have like fairly average across the board. Like, where do you start with that? Is it sort of specific to what they're doing, I guess?

Aaron Dobie 39:00

Yeah, I guess, yeah, for sure. There's like I in my there are prerequisites that they need to have based on the activities they want to do. If it's if we're talking about trail running versus mountain biking, right? And like I sometimes like in my assessments with people, I'll say, Do you think you should have been able to do that based on the fact that you want to go do like a hundred and twenty-kilometer road ride this weekend? And they'll look at me and be like, Yeah, I I get I get what you're saying. Like, you know, yeah, let's work on that. Like, because that has to carry over to like being better on the bike or just like being injury free on the bike, too, right? And having the capacity to do the things that someone wants to do, yeah, for sure.

Jarrad 39:37

For

Mobility, Pain, And Training Limits

Jarrad 39:38

sure. Um, one last one before we start talking a bit more about like the rider themselves, but good versus bad pain. I've heard this thrown around so often, and it's like where do you go with that? Because I feel like good pain is like obviously when you're training and things like that, and like you you're feeling it, but there becomes a point when that good pain becomes bad pain, I feel, and you're just like overdoing it. Like, what's your thoughts there?

Aaron Dobie 40:10

For sure. Um, yeah, like the brain has a very small vocabulary that it can talk to us in, like hot, cold touch. I guess we could break touch into fine touch and like gross touch, and then pain, and then it can whisper those or it can scream them. So, yeah, definitely like pain doing 12 push-ups is different than the pain you have when you're like when you're about to go hurt your shoulder or something like that. So, yeah, definitely like that's a just a big education piece uh on teaching someone like what where those where those limits are and like when that is like a working effort pain versus a signal from the brain saying like hey, hey, like you know, that's not that it's time to stop, right? Um a big thing with pain that I think a lot of people don't understand is that pain pain occurs before damage. So if I pull my finger back as I'm stretching my finger, I feel pain before I dislocate my finger. Yeah. Um, so in that sense, pain is like a yellow light at a traffic intersection saying to look both ways. Yeah, look both ways and proceed with caution.

Jarrad 41:18

Yeah.

Aaron Dobie 41:18

But very quickly it can become a red light. And so, like, you're you're more than welcome to push that yellow light, but then like the second you hit that threshold where it where it changes, um, you need to respect that for sure.

Jarrad 41:29

Yeah. Do you think like you can train that warning light a little bit? And the reason I say that and stay with me on this for a little bit, but I saw a TED talk a few years back now of talking about pain, and essentially, long story short, the guy was walking through the bush, got bitten by a snake, looked down, saw the snake on his leg. Obviously, pretty painful type signals going to his brain. A few years later, walking through the bush, stick scratches him on the leg, has that same instant, just like crazy burning of a snake bite, looks down, realizes it's a stick scratching his leg. In the reverse, like, do you feel like you can train that? Because I feel like some of these higher level athletes they talk about pain thresholds being so much higher than others.

Aaron Dobie 42:22

Like, yeah, for sure. I know the exact video you're talking about. That's Lermer Mores Mosley, and he's an Aussie. Yeah. Um, and that's on YouTube if anyone wants to go find that. But it's if you just search Explain Pain, Lermer Mosley, um, you'll definitely be able to, you'll definitely be able to find that. So I know exactly he's a funny guy too. So his videos are awesome. Um, how how do you explain that? Yeah. I think what all that explains is just that our our we add context to everything, like the human mind adds context to everything, and we use our previous uh like our previous history and our beliefs and our expectations to to influence pain. So we definitely have an ability to take pain from say a four out of ten and make it a seven, uh, or we can also make it a one. And so, like if you have shoulder pain and you're going to open a heavy door and you think it's gonna hurt before you do it, there's a higher chance it's gonna do it. And yeah, and uh, or you can flip that and be like, no, this is gonna go well, we're gonna be okay. Like, I've got this, and and you can actually take the pain and turn it down, turn it down. Um, and that's a lot of the pain science education I I give with people when I'm working with them, is is exactly that like ability to to adjust pain. Um when it comes to like performance on a bike, for sure, like there's there's strategies there. I think there's like a a big one is is the desensitization um of it, and that's where training comes in, is I say to people, you got to become comfortable being uncomfortable. Yeah. Um, and so that's where like on the bike and sprinting and and doing different things where the body's trying to give you those lights to say, Hey, hey, hey, is this a good idea? But if we expose our body to that a lot, it becomes Becomes normal and then the the brain realizes that it's safe and and that threshold rises and and it allows us to do that more comfortably.

Jarrad 44:07

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. The classic like put yourself in controlled stressful situations. So then when you're in an uncontrolled, stressful situation, it like doesn't seem as bad.

Aaron Dobie 44:19

For sure. And then we gotta be careful because if you do that too much, that's overtraining. That's overtraining. So there's a there's a fine balance, there's a fine balance of it, of and you gotta pick when pick when you

Anatomy, Data, And Bike Setup Trust

Aaron Dobie 44:30

do that.

Jarrad 44:30

Yeah, for sure. So talking a bit more about like the riders and the athletes. I know we kind of mentioned it with the the women earlier. What do you see as like some of that anatomy of like the right rider? Like you look at I don't know, you take the top ten of any sport, and it's very rare that you have a it's dedicated body shape, size, whatever. Like even road racing for that matter, like everybody's so different. Do you see any similarities there, or is it like pretty much just bring what you got, run what you're on?

Aaron Dobie 45:08

Yeah, and I think we're gonna learn potentially. I think this downhill season's gonna be really cool because I think there's gonna be a bunch of different winners. We just saw Asa win, yeah. Um on the male side, and so that's like I think it's we're gonna give our heads a bit of a shake because yeah, Jackson, everyone, everyone was thinking that like small people might be coming back and dominating, dominating downhill.

Jarrad 45:32

Yeah.

Aaron Dobie 45:32

Uh when Jackson's been dominating, and then I think there's gonna be a bit more variety this year, would be would be my guess. I think with mountain biking, we're like lucky that it's the most like variable sport there is. We got different types of dirt, we got different types of moisture, we got different types of terrain. Um, and so it lends the hand at at for different people winning different races. Um that career round was pretty crazy. Like that was a very technical track. I don't think riders really got got to test their physical ability for the season. So, like, I think a lot of the technical riders were able to do really well. Um, but yeah, I don't think anyone really got to like prove anything that they trained really hard physically in in the offseason yet. Um maybe a lot'll come out in Loudonville, yeah, for sure.

Jarrad 46:19

Yeah, and I I think like exactly as you're saying, like that tracking career was like obviously brand new, level playing field to some degree because no one's ridden it, and it just like the whole technical aspect of like you everyone knows how technically good uh well am I mental blanking? Um who just won? Acer. Acer won. Uh like how good Acer is on a bike generally, like he's insane, and then you take like the Iran brothers, and yeah, like it's just crazy. And then you throw in like the old experience of Luick in there as well.

Aaron Dobie 46:57

For sure, for sure. Or like, yeah, and Amory was essentially one and then he crashed. Yeah, no, um, yeah, I don't think there is a body type. Like, I don't think I think that would be uh that would be really hard to pick. One thing I worry about with all this like data acquisition stuff in in mountain biking right now is is teams not giving riders enough say in bike setup and like what they're actually comfortable on. And I wonder how many riders are like being handed bikes. Maybe especially some of the younger, like less experienced riders are being handed bikes. It's like this is the setup for you, like go ride it, yeah.

Jarrad 47:34

And maybe they're not that comfortable on it, and and uh and like they hopefully the team has an environment where they're they're open and open and willing to like express that they're not comfortable on it and can make changes, and it's not like they're being force-fed bike setup and just being told, like, do this, yeah, you know, yeah, and I think like I compare it to the moto side of things, and like you hear it all the time, and like especially with if anyone follows Moto, like Kenny just winning, which is like mind-blowing, but like the amount of times where riders are like, Oh yeah, I'm just handed a factory bike and told to race it because it's the best package they can do, it's like, well, maybe it's not the best package for me, and it's like that would be an interesting one.

Aaron Dobie 48:22

A good team is all about one where the environment allows for them to to express that, I guess, and work collaboratively to to find the optimal, yeah, for sure.

Jarrad 48:32

Yeah, as I say, that's uh if anyone out there is listening and has done a lot of the data acquisition, I'd love to chat because it's like yeah, that stuff's mind-blowing.

Mountain Bike Fit Starts With Suspension

Jarrad 48:43

But like you were talking about bike fits earlier, you do a fair bit of bike fitting. How does that relate? And obviously, more road, more try, I feel like that affects the ride and and the ability on a road bike where you're essentially pretty locked into a position versus a mountain bike being very dynamic. But over the years, as we're saying, like bikes have changed, whether you want to say they've gotten longer or not, and there's massive arguments between behind geometry there. But do you feel like bike setup on a on a mountain bike does make a massive difference versus like and takeaway suspension in this aspect, but like in the sense of like where the bars are, where the saddle is, things like that?

Aaron Dobie 49:27

Yeah, yeah. Um, so I I actually teach a like a clinical mountain uh clinical bike fitting course and like a cycling injuries course. And I've always wanted to teach a mountain bike mountain bike specific uh course, and I haven't really been able to over the last like say 10 years because mountain bikes have been changing so much. And last year I actually got the opportunity to create a course, a one-day course, and and teach it to some physios, because like we finally are at a place with mountain bikes where like the progression and the changes and reaches are relatively steady and and sags are relatively steady and fork offsets are relatively steady, like things are not changing that much, but um where like you can you can make sense of the madness. But I think like bike fits huge, and it actually on the mountain bike it starts with suspension because that's gonna be like your riding position descending and your riding position, um, your riding position when you're climbing and descending there. So yeah, that's like that's a that's a big one. And so when I am fitting mountain bikes, it's it's all about making sure seg set before like you're doing any sort of like saddle height fore and aft, yeah, kind of thing. Um, I think there's a lot of gains that can come out of out of bike fit, just like riding in a more efficient position for like a less educated rider who doesn't hasn't like experienced what maybe having their saddle more for like when they're climbing uh can be. Um unfortunately with mountain bikes though, anything you're doing to the front end of the bike to help you on the uphill is gonna more often than not be a detriment on the downhill. Yeah. So like you have to kind of read the rider to determine like where they want to bias their their fit either for downhill or uphill.

Jarrad 51:05

So yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you seen much of the videos going around and maybe you're being a part of it where they're getting the riders in their descending position and like coming back off the bike and angling the bike at whatever degree angle downhill, more downhill based, I guess, thanks.

Aaron Dobie 51:24

Like with the GoPros that like Fox is doing, is that we're good. Yeah, I actually don't know a whole lot about that. Like, I haven't had an opportunity to really like ask anyone about it. I think it's it has a lot to do with determining like center of mass on the bike and like where the center of mass is based on the wheelbase. I'm not sure like how they're getting getting that information based off the cameras and stuff like that, but yeah, that'd be cool to speak with someone, to speak with someone about for sure. And I know there's other companies doing similar, like yeah, looking for similar, looking for the same information in different ways.

Jarrad 51:56

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, as I say, it's an interesting one. I feel like it's fairly new in the mountain bike world, at least, anyway, of like if the brider is in this position, obviously the aero side of things is different, but in this position, how is the bike gonna react and this and that versus and trying to like lab test the downhill?

Aaron Dobie 52:16

Yeah, and that's actually like how I bike fit is like in this perfect and in this perfect environment, this is your current position. Am I fitting you so that I know when you hit a steep hill going uphill, your bot I know your body's gonna go this direction, like you're gonna move forward on the saddle. Have I given you enough space to do that? Yeah, and when you're going downhill, maybe you're gonna like go into your hinge and you're gonna like sit back. Have I given you enough space to go into that position? Um, so it's kind of like making sure that like where their position is in their fit with me uh gives them that that that flexibility to go either way.

Jarrad 52:51

Yeah, definitely. Do you find talking a bit about that body maintenance and things like that come into play? And when I say body maintenance, it's like as we're saying, like the stretching, the rolling, the just keeping your body, I guess, working in an athlete sense. Do you find that that affects the bike fit quite a lot?

Aaron Dobie 53:12

Yeah, like the the mobility demands to ride a bike isn't high by any means. Um, I would come back to like you know, having mobility for when you come off the bike, that you have like more range of motion to tumble and twist and contort when you're rolling down the hill. I think that's like massive, like yeah, for sure. Um for sure, like ankle mobility, hamstring mobility is gonna be a big one for descending for descending position, and then just having the stability to hold those positions is gonna be like probably more important, I would say.

Jarrad 53:45

Yeah, yeah, as I say, it's it's always an interesting one. I know when I've done bike fits in the past, mainly when people have come to me with a an issue, and it's like, well, your hamstrings are so tight, there's no real no wonder you've got a sore back or whatever. Like it's always yeah, kind of funny when you talk to people and they're like, Oh yeah, I haven't stretched in 10 years. It's like, yeah, I can see.

Aaron Dobie 54:08

Yeah, I'm pretty, I'm pretty lucky, like with the patient population, the client population I work with, it's like pretty rare that anyone I talk to isn't already like in the gym doing some form of like physical preparation uh for the sports that they love. And it's just like being on the North Shore, like being in Vancouver in the sea of the sky, like that's kind of like how it is now. Whereas like many years ago, uh that wouldn't have been the case. But so it's like that's actually where it's really easy for me to get involved with a lot of these people because they already have like an hour twice a week allotted to to that time, and then I just tell them what to do during that hour, right? And just make their time more efficient. So yeah.

Jarrad 54:50

Yeah, no, yeah. As I say, it's always an interesting topic to like get on to is like the amount of different opinions in bike fit and the way that it works and and things

Road Fit Trends And Forward Power

Jarrad 55:00

like that.

Aaron Dobie 55:00

An interesting, like aside from that, specific to road bikes, is when I first started fitting road bikes 10 years ago, um, how far we would allow a road biker's knee to come over their pedal spindle and how close we would let them come uh to the handlebar uh was often limited because we had a fair bit of research to show that like if you're too far forward, you get anterior knee pain, like your patella can't handle it. That was very much a population of people that like didn't do yoga, didn't strength train, weren't doing single-leg squats, weren't doing reverse lunges, didn't work on single leg stability. And now those values have come way, way, way, way, way more forward. Like three centimeters further forward, I fit people nowadays to get them more aggressive and on top of the pedals. And so that's interesting. Like short cranks is definitely in road biking, is definitely allowed for people to come more forward. But um, even after that, their their position is way more forward, and they there isn't more knee pain, but it's that maintenance stuff. It's the foam rolling, it's the stretching, it's the strength and conditioning that allows the knee to handle that more aggressive position before those pain signals start.

Jarrad 56:09

Yeah. What is that general rule of thumb? Because I know it was plus or minus two centimeters over the axle. Is it now five? Or give or take? Like obviously within reason, and you can't obviously say certain in numbers.

Aaron Dobie 56:21

Yeah, I would say like it's it just depends what you're measuring, but um I use the retool bike fitting system, and so I think that'll let us get 35 mils in front of the pedal spindle. Yeah, so like it's huge, but that's measured off of like an infrared, like it's like a motion capture system. So, like, I don't your numbers will be maybe different if you're manually measuring them, but but like those numbers used to be five mil and now it's like 35 mil. So it's like the three full centimeters further forward you can let someone go, like when you're trying to fit them for performance.

Jarrad 56:54

Yeah, and for anybody listening, what does that do by allowing them to come further forward? Is that a more powerful position, I guess?

Aaron Dobie 57:01

Right. So, like the job to pedal a bike is to apply force perpendicular to the cranks. So if the cranks like at the three o'clock position, pointing straight forward, we want that force going exactly vertical, straight down, perpendicular to the crank. And so if your saddle's too far back, you're not going to be able to apply that that straight down um power. And so by sliding them forward, yeah, exactly. It's it's straight down. And then if they ride on a hill, they're effectively further back. So then that's even it's even harder to get on top of the cranks, and so yeah, you bring them further forward.

Jarrad 57:36

So and do you do much with the tri-side of things, or is it not too much here?

Aaron Dobie 57:40

A little a little bit for sure, and so that's exact that's definitely like a very fore position, yeah. Um, yeah.

Jarrad 57:46

Right. Do you see much of that tri-fit bleeding into the road fit now?

Aaron Dobie 57:51

Yeah, massive, because like everyone wants to have like their semi-arrow position on on road bikes now for sure, where they drop their elbows and rest their hands on the hoods, and so yeah, very, very much so, where they're sliding forward and saddles, like noses of saddles are getting wider, so people can slide forward more now. And yeah, yeah, lots, lots is changing in in road these days, and and and even mountain bike fit

Training For Life After Competition

Aaron Dobie 58:13

too.

Jarrad 58:13

Yeah, for sure. You kind of mentioned a bit about like how the generations have changed slightly over the past 10 odd years. What are people doing different apart from just like the general being more active? Like, I feel like people are exercising so much further into life, like outside of the retired life was golf. Now it's like cycling, swimming, like the amount of like over 60 year olds doing triathlons and stuff like that. That's just a number for sure. Yeah, like are you seeing a big difference even in your own business with people's age?

Aaron Dobie 58:48

Oh, for sure. Like, I I love my like master's population and like listening to what they're up to for sure. Yeah, 100%. Like that's it's it's crazy what people are what people are up to, and it's like and it's a like there's many of them. It's not like rare to to find someone that's that's uh achieving crazy physical feats at at ripe ages.

Jarrad 59:13

Yeah, for sure. Are they like I'm trying to think of how I word this without making it sound weird, but like what are they doing differently compared to previous generations? Or is it just that they're more active in general?

Aaron Dobie 59:29

Yeah. Yeah, I think I think like I think of like the concurrent say someone who's say someone who's like 65 right now probably didn't think much about their training when they're going and getting after it when they were like our age. Yeah. But then I think they've like retired and now they're picking up maybe some like training habits and stuff like that, and like just like you and I are at our age, and that's allowing them to go longer. I think it's gonna be really cool to see like our generation, like who has maybe been consistently in the gym and working on like the out of like the cross-training gutta side of things to to see where to see where that where that goes for sure. Because I think that the limits just gonna continue to be pushed. Yeah, for sure.

Jarrad 1:00:24

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, as I say, it's it's kind of cool to see that like that generation is still like pushing that limit a little bit.

Aaron Dobie 1:00:31

Yeah, but I think our like our like yeah, our 65, like with clients that I have that are, yeah, 65, let's say in and around that age, like it's never too late to start. And so like if they are working on say some sort of like exercise program or strength program or whatever to maintain uh strength, they still can for sure.

Jarrad 1:00:53

Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Hardline Concussion Protocols Built From Rugby

Jarrad 1:00:55

Uh one last thing I wanted to touch on before we wrap this up is concussions. I know you're doing a bunch of research and stuff like that with concussions and and how that affects the body and things like that. Can you tell me a little bit about like what you're up to with that?

Aaron Dobie 1:01:11

Yeah. Um, well, so I guess I guess the big project that I have this year uh is that I'm leading the paramedical team for Red Bull Hardline at Cyprus, um, which has been like a really cool project to be a part of. So the medical team consists of a physician, uh, first responders, and then the paramedical side that I'm responsible for, which is going to be uh three physiotherapists and a massage therapist. Um and so it's been really cool to work with that medical team on like the emergency response plan for Red Bull Hardline, which is I got kind of interviewed uh asking based on my previous experience, like if I could do it better, what would I do? And uh I pit on on the paramedical side and I pitched a proposal, um, and yeah, it essentially got a got accepted. And and so I've been like working with uh working with the medical team to kind of like build out Red Bull Hardline on the medical side to to uh to make it the best World Cup or best sorry downhill downhill uh race in in history is really the goal. Um and so concussion implementation and protocols has been kind of a a big piece of that. And so um it's been what we've been what we've done is we've created uh the SCAT six is the sport concussion assessment tool. It's like a pretty well-known assessment tool uh that's used when a rider is off off track, like in a medical hut, to to do a full thorough assessment of a rider when they're when they're hurt. Um, but there really isn't any standard for what is done track side. So if a rider crashes, they're on the track, they get pulled to the side, the first responder that's there, the marshals that they're doesn't really isn't really, to my best understanding, given any sort of strong protocol uh on what that should be done to rule to determine if they're allowed to continue riding down the track or if they need or if they need further medical attention. So what um what I've created and and the teams created is is a track side assessment. Essentially, it's a short form scat assessment um that's going to determine that like immediate under time pressure return to play. Um and then it's and then if they are allowed to return to play, that's fine. And then if not, they get pulled off, they got brought brought down to the medical hut, and then they get that's the get the scat six, like thorough assessment from a physician or a physiotherapist. Um that like tracks that assessment I amended from world rugby. And so in rugby, which I have experience with from working with the UBC varsity team, um, you get 10 minutes to assess someone who's been been in a in a big collision uh or been hit, and so they get brought to the side and they get given 10 minutes with the with the medical team to run through a short form assessment to determine if they're ri allowed to return to play or not. And so I amended essentially that form and made it made it like mountain bike specific for for this event. So yeah, that's kind of that would be the thing that you're alluding to.

Jarrad 1:04:17

Yeah, definitely. And I wanted to ask you about that in the sense of like where you were oh the the camera just died, but that's all right. Um where you want it or where you were pulling from with those different uh like sports and like your previous history and what they were doing on the outside of mountain biking to how that relates back in.

Aaron Dobie 1:04:37

But yeah, I think it's just based on m what I've seen, um what I've seen at the at the at various races, it doesn't matter if it's World Cup or local or or whatnot. It's just like it's hard to determine like when a rider crashes on on like in their practice run, like if they're allowed to like ride down or not, or what happens, like when does the when does the the like ATV come to like help them out or do they just like dribble down the track to get down to the bottom or what? And we're trying to like come with a come with a solid system in place to to have something that's uh objective, objective way of determining if if they can return to riding or not.

Jarrad 1:05:21

Yeah, no, definitely, yeah. I'll say it's uh it's super interesting in that sense that like you are able to pull from those different areas and then yeah, almost make within reason an immediate decision of whether they can continue or not in a in a safe way.

Aaron Dobie 1:05:36

Right. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no, it's it's been cool, it's been cool to kind of work with um work with that whole medical team uh and trying to like yeah, sharpen the tip of the pencil in like the the area that that I assist with with mountain bike

Final Takeaways And Thanks

Aaron Dobie 1:05:52

racing, for sure.

Jarrad 1:05:52

Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you for coming in. For sure. We talked about way more than I thought we were gonna talk. So yeah, cheers.

Aaron Dobie 1:06:02

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Jarrad 1:06:03

All good. Thanks.