Creating Safe Havens for Grieving Families: A Conversation with Erin Nelson

Summary

In this episode of Growth from Grief, Erin Nelson, the executive director of Jessica's House, shares her personal journey through grief after losing her husband, mother, and son and how these experiences led to the creation of a supportive community for grieving families. The conversation explores the importance of community support, the unique ways children and adults grieve, and the therapeutic approaches used at Jessica's House to help children process their grief. Erin emphasizes the significance of modeling grief for children, the necessity of being present for those who are grieving, and offers practical advice for coping with grief, especially during the holiday season.

Takeaways

• Grief is a complex journey that can affect the entire family.
• Children often grieve in bits and pieces, allowing for natural breaks.
• Modeling grief for children helps them understand and express their emotions.
• Jessica's House provides a safe space for grieving families to connect and heal.
• Therapeutic approaches, like play and art, help children process their grief.

Thank you for listening!   Visit www.sueandersenyoga.com for Yoga for Grief classes and additional resources.

Transcript

Sue (00:03.202)

Hi everyone, welcome to this episode of Growth from Grief. And I'm so pleased to have Erin Nelson, who is the executive director of Jessica's House on the podcast with me today. So welcome.

Erin:  Thank you so much for having me today, Sue. I'm just so grateful to be here on your podcast. Thank you.

Sue: I like to start, to invite my guests to talk a little bit about their story. You know, along with your story, maybe share, maybe it's challenges you had in terms of finding support, or what support you did find. So that would, I think that's always really helpful to listeners.

Erin: Absolutely. So my very first loss was many years ago when my husband Tyler died. He was up in Alaska fishing with his friends and he had a mid-air collision. As you know, when people are flying in Alaska, it's kind of like they're driving because there are so many remote areas and So I got that classic middle of the night phone call and my children at that time were five and three. My daughter was five, my son was three and that was my first introduction to grief. I had never really experienced a lot of grief in my life. I was a young mom and so as I began processing this very big loss in my life,

Erin: (01:46.166)

I began to realize that my children also were grieving, and I wanted to support them the very best I could because everything had changed in our life, just our daily lives and mealtimes and playtimes and just everything had changed and it was so disorienting.

Sue: Yeah, that I also when my son was 15 months old, I lost my husband, my first husband suddenly as well. And it was, you know, very disorienting and really just not sure what to do. So I understand completely understand what you're what you're talking about, what happened to your husband and your circumstances

Erin: Yeah.

Sue: (02:41.902)

And so what are the resources that you found? Like how did you find things? What was helpful to you during those early days?

Erin: Yeah, during those early days, of course, you are just trying to survive. Sometimes you wake up and you say, wow, that really happened. You can't even believe that you're living in this new reality. And I think something that I found very helpful was just friendships. People in my neighborhood and church and really feeling surrounded by a community. I was really grateful for that. We live in a fairly smaller town in the Central Valley of California. And so very grateful that I did have that support from friends and just the community.

So that's something that I really leaned on. I had one particular friend who came over for almost nine months, almost every day. And she really did what we like to call here at Jessica's house,  she was a companion and we call it, “an alongsider”. She was my “alongsider”. She came alongside me in laundry and the dishes and we took the kids to school together and pick them up.

I was very grateful that she really gave so much time to our family and it was very stabilizing to just have the presence of someone else. As I've gone on, I've often thought about that time in my life. And I think as I went on, I realized that not everybody has an “alongsider”, and we needed to build something in our community that really could be a resource that was ongoing for families who are grieving.

Sue:  (04:34.414)

You know, that's, I like that term, “alongsider”.  And what also strikes me about that is some people don't know how to be an “alongsider”, right?

Erin: Yeah, it's so true. It's, you know, it's very difficult to be a friend or neighbor to someone who has had a profound loss. We want to I always think about it as like, we have, like maybe a bullseye that we're trying to throw a dart on, you know, and we're trying to hit the middle, but you just you want to be helpful.

And you want your support to be something that they need. And so much of the time, you're just trying things, right? And there are so many practical ways that we can come alongside someone. I think what she did was, like I said, it was very natural and we were very close. And I think the proximity of someone really makes a difference. 

And so we like to really talk about…We kind of have a house analogy at Jessica's house where we say we have those people that we kind of let into our most private spaces in our home. And even our listeners today could probably think about those people where they say, that's my person that I want in my, you know, just my closest people. And then we might have people that are more in the kitchen, people that are in the living room. And then there might be those front porch people

Erin: (06:13.134)

that maybe you don't, know, their presence doesn't bring you strength as much as that person that's in kind of your bedroom maybe. And so I think you can think about people in different categories because there are some people that can even be someone who organizes the support you might need. Maybe they're the people that are organizing meals. 

We had one family who just brought an ice chest after our son Carter died and put it on our deck. And every morning I would go outside and there would be ice and new fresh drinks in this ice chest. And I had no idea when they even came to fill it. And so some of those practical ways of just saying, hey, I'm running to the store, what can I get you? Or, hey, we're just gonna mow your lawn and we took your garbage out for pickup tomorrow.

There are just so many ways to support someone when they're grieving. And sometimes it just takes trying little things that you think might be helpful.

Sue:  Yeah, those are all really great ideas. I know that many people feel like they're intruding or they're just not sure what to do. And in my experience, specifically when my son died in 2012, one of our couple friends of ours, they just invited us just like, every day, you know, I mean, just like they would every week, hey, let's go out to lunch. Let's go to dinner or whatever. Come on over for dinner. And you could say, I don't feel like it today. Like there was no expectation. It was there as an offer. What was really nice about it was that you, at least for me, we had

Erin: (08:07.349)

Yeah. yeah.

Sue:  (08:18.082)

We always had dinner with these people. We always had great conversations. So we had great conversations. And so you kind of got that one hour or two hours out of your grief to be supported by somebody. So that was just another thing that they felt comfortable doing because we had done in the past. So you're right. There's a lot of things.

Erin: There's a lot of things and those people that you feel comfortable with that can just bring their presence. There's something that is so stabilizing about having that comfortable person who's not afraid to continue to give the invitation and know that it may not always work, but that they're there and you know that and you can go and feel comfortable in their home as you have dinner together or wherever you are. 

And it's just really deciding for the griever, who brings you energy and who depletes your energy. And so who is it that can help you heal? And because you're already expending so much energy and you're healing. So anything that depletes you is something that you might not be able to have in your life right now.

Sue:  Right, right. Very good point because as we know, grief is exhausting and you need those people that are going to be supportive, that expect you to support them some way. That sort of thing. I know that you also lost your mother.

Erin: Exactly, yes.

Erin: (09:54.092)

Yes. And right after Carter died, I mean, I'm so sorry, Tyler, my husband Tyler, my mom had lived with bipolar disorder for many years and she had another suicide attempt and she died about nine months after Tyler did. And that was very difficult. I could look back at that time in my life and feel a deep fragility. I remember what that felt like, just feeling like kind of a of a wisp of a person in some ways. It felt like there was another layer of my grief and also the loss of someone so important in my life. 

And as my mom walked through a mental illness, you know, what I wanted to remember of her is just how good of a mom she was and how she would scoop up spiders and put them outside. And she had such a gentle presence and how she slapped her knee when she laughed. But the way she died could overshadow that sometimes. And it was such a different death than Tyler because he died in an accident. 

And it seemed like people were ready to talk about how he died and wanted to talk about him but I was met with a lot more silence and a lot more awkwardness and it really surprised me. And I think that just the compromised feeling of grieving a death by suicide was a lot more isolating. And I would say that that layer of grief was a place of a lot darker place than I had experienced with Tyler.

And of course, anytime we have more loss, know, loss upon loss, it really makes it much more difficult to grieve with the complexity of more than one death. And so that was really difficult at that time. My sister was 15 and she was still in high school. So she came to live with us. And I think that was the time that I started noticing how important her grief was and what she needed as a teenager, which really contrasted some of what my children were showing me.

Erin: (12:17.336)

And I noticed that her peers were so important to her and she really needed that peer support. And so I developed a lot of curiosity about teen grief and what they needed and really tried to bring as much stability to her life as possible alongside trying to be there for my own children. So it was definitely a really difficult time, but it really put me into this place of just wondering like, what does our community need to support people that are experiencing devastating loss?

Sue:  You know, listening to you talk about that it's we hear more with all the tragedy that's been going on in the last few years in this country. You know, people seem to be a little bit more aware, not suggesting that everybody's doing something but a little bit more aware of how different it is for a teenager, a young student, a child to grieve, but back at the time when year losses occurred, I don't think there was anything available, right?

Erin: It's true, nothing that I could access. There was no grief support groups at that time. And this was in the mid 90s. And there, we didn't have a place to just search online and it was very different. And I don't think we were having the mental health conversations that we have today. So there was a lot more shame around the type of death and I definitely felt that in really profound ways.

Erin: (14:20.918)

And so I am grateful for a new day in where we live now in this time where we can have more open conversations and that there is much more access to support.

Sue:  Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. So through these losses that you had and talking to other people in your community that had also had very devastating losses, you the three of you came up with this idea for Jessica's house. Is that how it came about? Was it just sitting around talking about it? How did that come out?

Erin: Yes, so I started taking some classes by our friend Dr. Alan Wolfelt and so grateful for him and all of his teachings and he has the Center for Loss and Life Transition in the Colorado area and he actually told me about the Dougy Center which was the very first Children's Grief Center in the United States. They opened around 1980. And I was so glad to learn that there was somebody doing this great work with children and families. And so I learned more about the Dougy Center and I went up to meet with the director at the time, which was Dr. Donna Sherman. 

And as I learned more about that, I brought this idea back to our community and we had some wonderful people in our community, Jessica's mom and dad, especially her dad, Michael, who Michael and Danielle were looking for support for their son, Mitchell, after the death of their daughter, Jessica. And then my good friend, Nancy Daly, whose husband, Gary, was fighting cancer and who did die. 

Erin: (16:31.978)

And she was doing some really good work in our community with Monkey Business, which was a group that supported children and families when a parent or sibling had a life-limiting diagnosis of cancer. And so we came together and just thought, you know, what can we do to bring this extra support to our community? We were approached by our local hospital. 

So Jessica's House was launched as a department of our small nonprofit hospital here in our town of Turlock, California. And we were so grateful to open in 2012. And we started literally with just one child and we grew and grew and we became 25 and then 50 and then 100 and we kept doubling in size. And so we are now serving about 800 children, teens, young adults and their adult caregivers.

We have never strayed from the Dougy Center model, which is peer support and it's families coming together every other week for an hour and a half with as much commonality as possible. And it's completely free for families. We have dinner together and then we get together in a circle and each age group introduces themselves.

And also there's so much expressive kind of arts that goes on through movement and art and music. And that is for the children, teens, young adults, and then the adults are supporting each other and their groups. So it's really for the whole family. And this model has really inspired so many different grief centers around the country and the world.

And so we stay so close to that model. And I know our listeners can look up the Dougy Center if they're interested in learning more about that.

Sue: (18:34.456)

Where is that based? 

Erin: Portland, Oregon.

Sue: Portland, Yes, yes.

Erin: (18:42.006)

Yeah, just we are so grateful and it's such an honor to be with these kids as they're grieving every child, teen and young adult who comes to Jessica's house has experienced the death of a parent or a sibling. And as they come into group, we are just really they're in a circle with their peers and they can talk about, you know, what they miss.  

Something that we've been talking about in group lately is how has your day changed? And they wanna talk about that. And they wanna talk about how different dinner is or how it used to be their dad who took them to school and now it's their mom. They wanna talk about how, you know, even in their car, their sibling used to sit in this one seat and now they're not there anymore. And they really are just so open.

Something what I really appreciate about a child who's grieving is that they often really know what they need. And at Jessica's house, we have different rooms, and we have a sand tray room. We have a volcano room; we have a hospital room. And these are all therapeutic spaces where they can choose to go where they want to express. 

And I'm always so intrigued to see where they will want to go. And it's amazing the work that they will do. I had a child not too long ago who we have a cocoon chair where they can climb in and get all like tight in this swing. And I just would just swing them back and forth. And, you know, it's so calming and they find ways to calm their bodies and calm their minds. And even we have an outdoor low ropes course where they can bring all their attention in order to walk across a log. And anytime they're bringing their attention in that way, they get to give their brain a break from the worries they may have. And they can reflect on that. Like, what does that feel like? You can't actually worry and catch a ball at the same time.

Erin (20:58.43)

So even just doing something like that therapeutically can really help them as they process their grief and as they may express common worries. And something that we have learned is a child who experiences a death may say, you know, I never thought this was possible that my mom could die. And now I'm kind of worried about another family member dying.

So they can talk about that and really express that and also have their other group members say, you know what, I think about that too. And then they feel less alone and it doesn't seem like such a worry that doesn't make sense because it does make sense. And of course they're worried and they can have that kind of affirmation and sense of belonging in a group setting. so.

It's amazing to watch the healing and the transformation that can come when they have this time in group.

Sue: That's so amazing. As you were speaking, was going back to the time when my first husband died, my son was young, 15 months old. Late 80s early 90s and into the 90s. So not a lot of support not really sure what I was supposed to be doing.  And my reaction was not to talk about it because I didn't want to upset, you know, I don't want to upset him Which because that's what I thought I should do, you know, not really talk about not cry, you know not do all that.  Do you find that parents still might have that same kind of feeling? Are they a little bit more aware or open? Or what's your experience with the parents?

Erin: (22:47.054)

You know, sometimes we don't really know because it's not something that's modeled oftentimes in families. And how do we grieve and how do we grieve in front of our children? So much of like what we talk about Jessica's house is, you know, express it as you feel it. And if your children are there and you're like, should I let this out right now because they're here? But we always just try to say, your modeling grief for your child. 

And so anytime you if you're feeling those tears come or whatever that might be to allow that to move through you and to cry and then it gives them permission to cry as well. We had a family who once told us that she didn't know that her mom actually really cared as much about her dad's death because she didn't see her cry. And later on, she learned that her mom was crying more in her car and in her bedroom. And so, and she was so surprised to learn that there were so many tears happening, but her mom wasn't really crying in front of her. And the daughter was feeling like she really wanted to cry even more than the mom. And so you just never know how everything's expressed, but to find comfort in expressing more as you feel it because that energy of grief, sometimes once you feel it and if you suppress it, sometimes you don't get that opportunity to let it move through you the way it needs to more organically. So being able to really allow it to flow is so important.

Sue (24:47.598)

Do you have families or children that have gone through the program and then come back to volunteer?

Erin: We do. have several. One child who was one of the very first in our program as one of our youth ambassadors. She'll be a guest on our podcast When Grief Comes Home in the next few weeks. And she is at Boston College right now and pursuing child psychology and applied psychology and I know is interested in becoming doing something in this field. 

And it's so encouraging to watch healing happen and watch post-traumatic growth where children, you know, when you think about them and experiencing trauma, if they have support, they are more likely to go into helping fields and to want to make a difference and watching kids like Audrey start to pursue that. And she's been on staff with us even in the summer. And it's so wonderful and inspiring to watch her.

Sue: Yeah, yeah. Are there particular differences between the way that children grieve and adults grieve?

Erin: (26:20.686)

You know, we talk sometimes about dosing and how you never feel the full weight of your loss all at one time. You know, when I think about my husband, Tyler, you know, he died in June and in October, it started getting cooler outside and I'll never forget being outside with the kids one night and realizing, my goodness, like, I think it's time to have our first fire. And...

I realized in that moment that he was our fire builder. He always built the first fire. And, you know, I didn't know in June that I would be missing my fire builder in October. You can't feel the full weight of the grief all at once. And so we talk about how we kind of dose ourselves with our grief and we grieve in bits and pieces. 

I think children are so good at grieving in bits and pieces. We watch them kind of come in and touch in with their caregiver and then go out and play. They may come and ask some questions and cry a little bit, be angry and have emotions and then give themselves a natural break from their grief. And I think that natural kind of organic way of a child grieving really shows us so much as adults on kind of just that cadence of how grief comes. 

We've heard, I know so many times that it can come in waves. And it really does have this, you know, this building peaking and receding kind of nature. And children will really show us the way in that, in that aspect of really noticing that in them. And they really integrate in that way and can express.

Sue: Another question that I wanted to ask you about working with the children is  when they go into these different rooms. So as part of our training that I did with you and others that were facilitating, we had these different trays. So one was like a sand tray, one was you've got to pick that was like animals or people, or there was these little bins and you picked things and then you, I believe you set them up in this kind of like a diorama sort of thing. And then as the facilitator, so we were being the child, the person that was greeting, and as the facilitator, you would ask, you know, what? what is that figure or something, you would have a question and then the person would answer and then you'd repeat the answer back to them. What is the significance of that? I think that's so interesting instead of saying like, that's your dad. What do you think about your dad? You know, like going off on this conversation where instead of that, it's like you're keeping it to what they said.

Erin (28:36.738)

Yeah, we talk a lot about reflection and I think we just had a volunteer training over the weekend and I think that's one of the main parts of what we do here at Jessica's house and that is just reflecting and when you're talking here about the sand try, we can notice and we call it “sportscasting” where we're saying, you're, you're going to get the dinosaur and now you're putting it in the sand. Okay, now it's going into the corner. And so you're just kind of watching and reflecting what you're seeing. And then they might tell you, which a child did recently said, that's the bad dinosaur. And then went and got some more dinosaurs and they were in a little pod and they said, now they're safe because they're together with their family.

And I got to just be curious and say, they're together with their family. And they can deepen that conversation and tell a little bit more about why and how the bad dinosaur could try to get them. But they're with their family, so we can't hurt them. And so it's just a lot about curiosity and not trying to find the answers and just being with them in that moment and reflecting what they're saying. And also noticing and being curious and just reflecting what you're seeing.

Erin: (30:46.41)

It's amazing what can happen when a child has someone who is present and curious and not trying to lead them in any way, but just kind of being with what is and how much they are finding insight into their own grief because someone is just with them. Because so much of what they're needing to express is inside of them and they can do that so naturally if we give them the space and the chance to do that.

Sue: You just made a comment saying about, you know, not trying to solve the problem. I think as adults, that's what we want to do. Even when with our own grief, we're trying to figure out, okay, how do I fix this? What do I, you know, what tell me what to do? Yeah, and I'll do it so I can, you know, not feel like this. And of course, we know that You have to feel it.

Erin (31:55.148)

Yeah.

You have to feel it. just as we, as grieving adults know, our grief is unfixable. And when someone sits with us and is just there present and their presence is giving us strength and they don't have to move us along, they can just be right beside us and let us be where we are and trust the grief process.

And I think just as I've gone on and after the death of my husband and then my mom in 2019, we also experienced the death of our son Carter to a car accident. I remarried to my husband Brian and we had two other kids. So we had our first two, which is Cassie and Cody whose dad died. And then we had Carter and Camille.

And in 2019, when Carter was 20 years old, he died in a car accident. And so through that grief, I think, you know, as I've noticed, it's really, you know, it's, it's something that I just have to be in and have this very raw and, you know, just, it's, there's nothing anyone can do, but I can feel the strength of others surrounding me and being with me and my grief and trust that I really trust that grief process. 

And what I've learned is if I allow it to be what it needs to be and be with whatever it is that I'm feeling in the moment, letting it move through me, then I can get to the other side of that moment. And sometimes we say, know, just we use the analogy of like a storm, you know, and where, you know, if I'm, you may have heard that a buffalo gets through the storm because he turns around and faces it. And that's how he gets to the other side of it. And I think when we trust the grief process, we learn to kind of face it and not try to run from it. 

Erin: (34:18.314)

And it, what I know is that the storm never lasts forever. And it does when you are with it, as you are with the building peaking, it will recede, whatever that strong emotion is, whatever that kind of feeling of desperation and chaos and turmoil, it will, it will recede. And we can, we can really trust that. And so as we grieve really profound deaths, just trusting that process and that as we do that, as we do the work of it, that we will integrate over time.

Sue: You are reminding me of readings by people, like books, I'm sorry, by people like Tich Nhat Hanh that advocating just, you know, breathing and staying with it, and maybe even just repeating a mantra that's breathing, allow yourself to feel so you can come to the other side and it's not easy, and it's scary. But you will release some of that grief. And so the next time that thought comes up, the intensity of the emotion is a little bit less because you've been able to, to release some to let it go.

Erin (35:48.6)

Absolutely, that's so true Sue. That's definitely been my experience as well. it gives you hope to know that it does lessen in its intensity. And yeah, that's very helpful. Yeah.

Sue: Yeah. So congratulations on your book that was released in February and I wrote down the title because it has a subtitle that I wanted to make sure I also acknowledged. So the book is called When Grief Comes Home, a Gentle Guide for Living Through Loss While Supporting Your Child. And it came out in February. It's on Amazon. It's a Kindle book, correct? Or is it?

Erin: Yes, it can be. it's in where anywhere books are sold in different forms.

Sue: Okay, good. So tell me why you decided to write the book.

Erin: (36:48.962)

You know, this book has been in my heart since Tyler died, really. I remember listening to a woman who had lost her husband. And back then it was like a show on the radio and she had written a book and I just immediately literally got in my car and drove and bought the book. And it was a lifeline to me. I just felt like I didn't know anybody in my real life who had experienced the death of a husband. And I just held onto her words, and I wanted to feel less alone. 

So this book has been in my heart. I always have wanted to help other people who experience losses and also realizing that what we do at Jessica's house every day is that we can actually share so much of what we've learned from the parents who have been in our program these past several years and we wanted to pass along their wisdom. So it's a little bit memoir. And I have a wonderful co-author Colleen Montague who's the marriage and family therapist and she is our Program Director here at Jessica's house and so we teamed up to write this book as a resource for parents who have experienced the death of either a child or their spouse or partner, and they're raising children who are grieving the death of their sibling or their parent. And we wanted just to give them some practical ideas on how to support their children, but also really take good care of their heart as well.

Sue: Yeah, great. Great. I'm going to download it to my Kindle so I can take a read. And you also have a podcast that's of the same name, correct?

Erin: (38:35.192)

Thank you.

Erin: (38:40.216)

We have a podcast again, very much geared towards parents. And we just try to talk about common topics from parents who are grieving and just really stay with that. And we've been having some guests. We're going into season two and really grateful to have some guests this season and just continue to be a resource for parents.

Sue: That's great. That's great. At the airing of this episode, you know, we're close to the holiday season. Are there any specific things that you would like to share with our listeners about? You know, if you're if you and your child are grieving a loss or maybe point us to some resources on the website that would be helpful.

Erin: Yeah, you know, this time of year, I think we really feel it in our bodies that the holidays are coming and facing the holidays without your loved one is really, really tough. You know, as parents think about how they want to spend the holidays and what traditions they want to carry forward or what ones just don't feel possible right now. I think being able to get together with their children and really talk about what's important to every person. To know that no decision is final, even if they try to plan something, they can always change their mind according to their energy level. I mean, when I think about the holidays, it's a lot of energy when you're not grieving. 

Erin: (40:33.23)

So adding grief alongside is really tough. You know, sometimes you just want to get through it the very best you can and whatever it is that you need to do to, it's okay to change your traditions, it's okay to add something, but to remember the person, you know, we do in our family, we will light a candle for our son Carter and do that through the holiday season. And we invite other people to do the same. We like to say his name. We like to do a toast when we're together.  And we always want to remember him. Sometimes we'll just gather in a circle and hold hands and include him in a prayer. So thinking about, you know, how do you want to include that person? Because, you know, their absence is on everybody's shoulders. You feel it, you know, you feel it and want to honor them and also honor yourself and be really, really gentle with yourself during this season.

Sue: Thank you for that great advice. Any last parting words you'd like to share?

Erin: Well, Sue, I just want to say thank you for all the good work you do, and especially just for the yoga and all of the embodied practices that really heal us. And so you're doing wonderful work, and I've been such a grateful recipient of the good work that you do. So I just want to say thank you and thank you for what you do in the world. And I'm really grateful for you, really glad to know you and that we got connected through grief support in that training.

Sue (42:11.756)

Yeah, thank you. And thank you listeners for joining us in this episode. I hope you have a great rest of your day and we'll see you again soon.

Erin: Thank you