Chief's Chat #46: Community Policing and De-escalation in Action

A “safe public meetup” at a local restaurant still turned into a violent robbery, and the way it got solved says a lot about what community policing really means. Public Affairs Officer Lisa Greenberg and our new co-host, Officer Steven Klakowicz, asit down with Chief Anthony Sizemore to dig into how patrol officers working the same neighborhood every day build the kind of situational awareness that helps identify suspects fast, protect victims, and keep cases solid from the start.  

We break down the Facebook Marketplace setup, what robbery by sudden snatching looks like in real life, and why quick witness details matter. The Chief also explains constitutional policing in plain language, including how a Fourth Amendment “show-up” works. If you’ve ever wondered how police balance speed with civil rights, this conversation gives you the framework.  

Then we shift to a call that never made the news: multiple 911 reports of a man in a mental health crisis standing on a fourth-floor balcony with an AR-15 style rifle. We talk through modern police training since Columbine, de-escalation tactics, evacuations, shields, and how drones and a real-time crime center provide intelligence without forcing a dangerous confrontation. 

Transcript

Welcome And New Co-Host

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Welcome back to another episode of the Cape Cupcast Chiefs Chat Edition. I'm one of your hosts, Lisa Greenberg, and I am joined by my new co-host. This is Officer Steven Klackowitz. He's our new public affairs officer and new host of the pod, replacing Mercedes. And uh, how excited are you for your first Chiefs Chat?

SPEAKER_01 0:22

It's great. I'm really happy to be here. Good answer.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

It'll take some getting used to, but uh I know our boss is sitting right here, but I have a feeling he would say that either way. He's been really great. I hope so.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Yeah, he's been an awesome addition.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

He's been great. Um how are you doing, Chief? I'm doing good. We were kind of talking about how it's been one of those weeks that's like somehow gone by really fast, but it's been really busy and there's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

And felt like a really fast street fight. Yes. Went quick but beat up a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Exactly. It was one of those weeks. So um glad to be here. We had a few different situations that we wanted to touch on this week, a few different arrests that were made and things of that nature. And um, where should we start? Should we start with the news release we put out about two kids

Facebook Marketplace Robbery Call

SPEAKER_02 1:05

who uh were arrested, two juveniles arrested for robbery by sudden snatching and some really, really, really good police work that went into that one?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Yeah, definitely wouldn't want to talk about that. Not really like TMZ style. Right. You know, like uh celebrating or or dancing on the fact that two kids got arrested. The the way I'd like to look at this or frame it for the community is um we talk about community policing. You've heard that kind of buzzword for decades now, right? And when you think, the first thought that comes in your mind for community policing is community events and uh meet and greets and touch of trucks and coffee with a cop coffee with a cop, and all that is community policing. But another aspect of community policing really links up or dovetails with how we deploy and and street level policing with community policing in the DNA. And what the heck does that mean? Um, the way we deploy our people, we talked about it. We have four precincts that mirror the way the city's laid out northeast, northwest, southeast, southwest. Within each precinct is a subzone. So let's take Southeast where this happened. In the Southeast Cape, if your address is southeast something, you live in the southeast precinct. If you have named streets like down by the yacht club, you're in the southeast precinct. And in that uh geographical square or polygon, there are four distinct subzones. Now we have the Southeast Entertainment overlay, but in in that one zone where Orchid Boulevard is, we have officers that are deployed there. But they're deployed there every day. Right. They don't rotate, they don't move to northwest the next day or um Pine Island Road uh east the next day or out by surfside. They are in that that subzone within their precinct forever until they actually actually do an official transfer. And the reason for that is a community policing principle. How do you get to know your neighborhood if you move around all the time? Right. So if you're familiar, like your own neighborhood, if you leave your driveway and you're going to work, you usually do the same route every day. You know what looks normal, and something out of place jumps out. It's the same concept, right? So that becomes your home. That becomes your home neighborhood. So you get to know that business is never open on Saturday night at nine. Why are the lights on? Why, you know, let me go check it out. Well, maybe they're having an open house, maybe something's good, but maybe not. And you wouldn't know that if you don't work there all the time. And the same with people that live in the neighborhood. You know who your um uh I guess the term would be Karen's, right? You know who your Karen's are.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

I know who your Karen's are.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Um and they call about everything. And you know that there are certain people who are uh prone to have the police at their house, and you know people who are um always there to help, always there to wave, always walk their dog around that time. You just get to know your neighborhood, and that's what community policing is is the police make it their neighborhood too, right? We become one with the community. Well, it it takes a uh different form when you have a crime like we had earlier in the week, where somebody was gonna sell an item on Facebook Marketplace. Happens a million times uh across the country every day.

Community Policing In Daily Deployment

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Uh, but there is a percentage of people who will prey on people selling items and not want to pay for it and steal it or set them up to come rob them later or rob them right right then and there. Uh and that's what happened. So the guy was gonna sell, I believe, a cell phone. Cell phone. Yep. So he arranges a meet. Let's meet in a public place. The public place was the Waffle House on Del Prado, so they go, two individuals show up, the transaction was a ruse, they battered the guy, uh, took the phone and bolted. And he had the wherewithal to get the direction of where they went. We had some other witnesses say people went in that direction. But where the community policing component comes in, we had an officer that made contact with the victim to get the the who, what, when, where, what's going on, got a quick description of the two subjects out over the radio. And another officer, and I'm proud of this officer, he's a young guy that's that's new with us, but has already bought in to what you're supposed to do, developing situational awareness, developing some cop instincts, said, Well, I know because I work in this area, this is my neighborhood. I've been to a house before, and I've seen these older um older kids or young adults hanging out, they match that description. I'm gonna go over there and see. Goes over there, same description, same clothing, I mean to a T. And then we had talked about or the constitutionality and constitutional policing is kind of a buzzword. And I mentioned it before. Um, I, along with everybody else that works here, took an oath to defend the Constitution, but to defend it, you have to know it. And one of the things about constitutional policing is if you have this scenario and you make contact with those people, right? They are not under arrest. You want to have the victim look at them and go, those are the guys. If you move the people back to the scene, that is a the Fourth Amendment is triggered, that is a an arrest. You're depriving them of their freedoms to be able to do that. But the courts have have determined that you can detain them where they're at and bring the

Fourth Amendment Show-Up Explained

SPEAKER_00 6:55

victim to them. That's called a show-up in police terms. It also makes sure that you're in compliance with the Fourth Amendment, which is a big phrase these days, and we are. And the victim was brought to the scene. Those are the guys. Uh yeah, they just beat me up and took my phone and robbed me. So we were able to make the arrest. So it was a great example of what community policing looks like and maybe a different form that you never thought of.

unknown 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Definitely. It was so interesting, too, to see the officer's name because I was like, I was just at that guy swearing in. Like it happens quick where they buy in and they really put their training and uh and their experiences to work. True. It was important.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Trust the training.

unknown 7:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Definitely. When I first started on the road, I was on night shift, which this officer's on now. And one of my sergeants said, um, you know, when you have the ability, when we have that downtime, get in your neighborhoods and drive around. And that's good just for police presence to deter crime. If somebody's pulling on door handles or looking through mailboxes and they see a police car, they're usually going to stop. Or, you know, so just our police cars being in this neighborhood helps. But also you're driving through these neighborhoods and you you start to develop these patterns and see, right, you know, I there's usually a car in this driveway, or the the garage isn't usually open at 3 a.m. And uh you make contact with those people, and and that's how this officer was able to get that description and immediately know I've dealt with people that match that description right around here. They live right down the street. And, you know, when when all those coincidences start happening, it's not a coincidence anymore.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Right. So right. I had somebody um, a friend of mine um reached out and said, Hey, I just got a question. I mean, he they punched the guy. How come he wasn't charged with assault or battery? And I explained to him that that is a building block element of robbery. Robbery. Right. So robbery is basically two ingredients to the cupcake of robbery. You got the theft and the battery together, right? If they just took it, it's a theft. If they just punched them, it's a battery. If you punch somebody and take it, those are the robberies. So you don't you charge the robbery, you you charge the cupcake, not the eggs and the flour. Right. Right? Sure. Makes sense. That's what I told.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

You always have the best analogies.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

It's always food.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

The food-related ones are my personal favorite, of course. We had another situation uh this week.

Balcony AR-15 Mental Health Crisis

SPEAKER_02 9:20

We actually got a call about it, and this was something that didn't make the news. It's a little bit more of a sensitive type of topic when you involve mental health and things of that nature, but it definitely was something that was pretty big, especially for the people who lived in that area and what they experienced.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yeah, and it's um we we've said this on the podcast many times. We're the seventh largest city and the third biggest state in the country. If it's out there, it's in here.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

In here.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Absolutely. And unfortunately, one of the things that's out there that is in here as well is uh mental health combined with firearms. So we had an individual on uh Sunday night, right? Sunday night used to be Sunday night. Now, several Sundays in a row, we've had major priority ones and twos. And we've talked about the priority ones and twos. Those are your high priority when you think of an emergency, that's it. And over the last three years, we're up 33% in our ones and twos. So this was another example of that. So on a fourth floor of a condo building or an apartment building, I'm not sure if it was condo or apartment, um, and we got several 911 calls that there was a man out on the balcony with an AR-15 rifle. Scary. And I think we had I know one for sure nationally, uh, maybe even two, just this week of mental health crisis with a uh an AR rifle. You get a lot of tragedy that way. And that's why I say if it's out there, it's in here. So we had somebody that fit that mold. Mental health, obviously having a mental health crisis at the time, AR-15 rifle out on the balcony. So it's not a self-contained problem.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

This is a multi-resident problem. Yeah, didn't ask didn't ask for it. It's a lot of people in real close proximity. Absolutely. So um we get the 911 call. What makes it a little bit um challenging sometimes is there's an uptick in swatting calls. Yes. But you have to treat it real because for every swatting call, yeah, you got these, and it was legit. So we get there, and uh, we were talking before the show. Um, I've been a cop a long time, and I was a cop before Columbine. And Columbine, if for younger people who might be watching, is the if not the first, but the first highly publicized school shooting with a lot of victims, and it changed the game for how police respond, not only to school shootings, but any active threat, be it in a single family dwelling, all the way up to and including a school or a shopping center, a place with a lot of people. The old thinking and training that we actually got was patrol officers go assess, set up, contain, call SWAT, wait for SWAT. That's what they did in Columbine. Um it took real-time uh example, an example like that to go, that's probably not the best way because you have people that are getting actively killed. What are we doing? You know, sitting around. So that evolved into um, if you're the first officer there, you wait for you and you show up, let's go, we'll form like a triangle or a diamond, and then go uh attack the threat. Now that has evolved all the way to what is a class that we teach, and we actually subscribe to it here, single officer response to an active threat. And that's a fancy way of saying you're gonna earn your money today.

Why Police Training Evolved

SPEAKER_00 12:55

So if you're the SRO at a school, you're the first officer on scene at Target there or a shopping center or a call like this, you gotta act. So it this was not an active threat, so I'm not conflating the two, but that what I told that story for was to show the evolution of training and deployment and expectation. So, what does that mean for this call? We didn't arrive, surround, wait, call out SWAT, start negotiations, bullhorn, whole thing like that. Um, our officers on patrol receive high-level tactical training. They have high-level tactical equipment, shields, rifles. You meet and and meet fire with fire, threat with threat. So if the community or society is armed with AR-15 style rifles, then we have to be able to meet that that threat. There was a uh North Hollywood shootout proved that. So we have that type of equipment. We have that training. We have a world-class training facility with world-class trainers, and we train all the time. And the reason we do that is so speed and and precision can take hold. And on a case like this, we don't have to wait and call out SWAT. We have many SWAT operators that are on shift, but you don't have to be a SWAT operator to know how to tactically respond to an urban environment or an urban threat, which is what we have when you're the seventh and the third. I'll just shorten it, seventh and third. So we did that. We showed up, we had shields, rifles, contain, because it wasn't an active threat. Active threat means he's popping off rounds. He's popping off rounds, we're getting in there, going in there. And he wasn't doing that. You don't want to press the issue, you don't want to create or manufacture your own exigent circumstances, right? You don't start the emergency when there is one there, but you're prepared for it. And then we had technology where a real-time crime center and drone operators were able to use technology in real time. So he's up there pacing around with the AR in and out. Um, we have a team knocking on doors in the neighborhood, evacuating people in real time. We don't wait for him to start shooting. Hey, you need to get out of here in case this thing goes bad. And we start evacuating the neighborhood. We have it contained, and then we have a drone that goes up, doesn't have to go up the stairs, doesn't have to do a lot of things that humans have to do. It was able to go up and observe in real time. People on the ground seeing what's the apartment look like, anybody else in there, anybody dead in there? What else does he have? You know, just intel. And the more intel you have, um, we had a containment team, made contact with him, got him to come out, didn't have the AR with him, but he had a handgun with him. And as soon as he stepped out, we were able to safely take him into custody immediately. And all of that was a combination of people that are brave to do the job, first and foremost. Yep. Um, I'll back up people that called and said this ain't right, and called.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Um, we show up with the right kind of people, the right kind of training, right kind of attitude, deployment, frontline supervision was good. And you didn't hear about it on the news because it went well. That's not a shot at the news. Right. That is just telling you that there is so many different outcomes for these scenarios. Not to say that we got the special sauce

Drones Shields And Real-Time Intel

SPEAKER_00 16:30

that it won't happen. It could. But everything that we could do to resolve it without that was put into play and it worked. And that individual was taken into custody and hopefully can get the help he needs. Uh, there's other things in play, uh, such as uh uh what's commonly called a red flag law or a risk protection order to to uh take away the opportunity for that to happen again, and then maybe some court mandated mental health. Uh now the real work starts. But the important thing is we don't wing it. It's not what you think it is on TV or or techniques from the 90s or the 80s or even the mid-2000s. This is this is very um progressive, front-of-line, industry standard, industry leading technology training, deployment, and execution.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

I couldn't be prouder. Yeah. Anything that can be done to de-escalate a situation like that and have a uh nonviolent ending, a peaceful, for lack of a better word, ending. I mean, that training is so important. We've talked about it. I feel like every like year or so we come on the pod and we talk about a situation where this type of training and this type of uh situation occurs, and because of the training, it's able to end peacefully. Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

We don't you don't roll the dice and and see what or shake the magic eight ball and see what the outcome is going to be. These outcomes are intentional, and it's hard work and sacrifice and investment and dedication to get the result.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Definitely. And another example of the technology being so important.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yeah, that that stuff is so valuable. The the technology and the equipment that we have, uh, a lot of officers on patrol recently got issued shields. So and they can uh so most of the officers on the road have them in their cars. And uh in this situation, they can deploy those just for an extra safety measure for these types of situations. Right. Some of those officers have the um the drones that they can deploy. Um there's drones that don't even need the person carrying it around in their car, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah, there's uh that's a new um advent called uh

Drone As First Responder Debate

SPEAKER_00 18:45

DFR. Drone as first responder. And there are uh jurisdictions around the country that are live with DFR. Um we what's important, I think, for the community to know is that we are aware of emerging technology. Um we don't get things to keep up with the Joneses, right? Oh, they have that, or you know, my buddy Carmine's got that, I'm gonna get that just because he has it. If it works for our community, we're gonna investigate it, vet it, see if it's if it's the right move, and then deploy it. I will tell you that that is an evolution in policing is DFR. How would DFR work? You get a call like that on Sunday, the the they are are mounted on the roof of police headquarters or fire stations or strategically out throughout the building. Uh DFR could have responded to that scene before our officers even got there.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

With real-time visual of the subject, of the individual reporting back here so that we can adjust tactics in route. Right. Um, those are few and far between uh right now. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't be for the future. There's um there's a lot of different applications for DFR. The way that we are geographically laid out and not built out, socioeconomics, types of calls that we have, we have the stuff, obviously, but the frequency can push off that. And when you were able to push off technology, I'll give another analogy, big screen TVs. When they came out, if you had to have one right now, they're giant, they cutting edge at the time, very expensive. Now, if you could get one that's twice as big, flat, cheap, it breaks. They had TV repairmen. That's a throwback. They don't have TV repairmen. No, you just get a new one. Same thing here. Let's let the technology evolve. Let's let's see what the flat panel TV version of DFR is. Price comes down, capabilities go up to kind of jive with the need, but we are we are looking into that. And that's for any technology. Right. We don't just the the they got it, so we gotta get it is there are people who do that in even in our industry. I don't subscribe to that. I think it's silly to do that. Sure. Um it's it's not, in my opinion, the best stewardship of tax money, right? Or grant money or forfeiture money or bake sale money. It doesn't matter. You do the right, I think, research and and do what's right for our community. But DFR is pretty impressive in the communities where it fits. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

I think it's like what you said, nothing we do is knee-jerk. It's not there's so much thought and preparation and research and all of that that goes into anything that's deployed or any new technology or new tools that we get. So it's not like anything is just like, oh, they have that. Like you said, we're gonna get it.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

It's where I have to be dad a lot, right? Because I got really talented, forward-thinking people that are like, look at this, this is great, we gotta get it. Uh do some research and let me see a uh a white paper on it. Oh man, really? Yeah, do that and then get them to understand how I think and and now they think that way because it's so much more solid ground. And then you'll vet out or weed out things that you really don't need at the time. And and technology is in any industry, it's not just policing. If if whatever field you're in at home, there's a new thing. Go to a trade show, look out. Go to the same trade show the next year. Are they still in business? Have they been acquired? Did they go out of business? Was it junk? Take a beat and make sure it's really gonna

Back-To-School Weekend Safety

SPEAKER_00 22:55

be best for our community.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Definitely. All right. Anything else, Chief?

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Um, no. Uh kids, this is your final summer weekend. Crazy. Because school starts next week. Yeah, they got Monday off, so you got a three-day weekend. That's good. But ha ha ha. Yeah, it's over.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

This parents are back to school. His parents are itching to get back into that routine and those. Yeah. These.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Yeah. It's a take advantage of the last weekend, be safe, do something fun. Don't do anything crazy.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

No. Keep it cool.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

If you made it the whole summer, kids, without committing a crime, don't do it this weekend.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Yeah, it's a bad weekend to do it.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Yeah, exactly. We'll be out there. All right. Well, thank you, Chief.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Welcome to the pod. Thank you. You're great, buddy. Thank you. I appreciate it. We'll close it out. Have a good one. Stay safe.