The Truth About Immigration in America with Attorney Angelica Jimenez

Immigration is one of the most talked about issues in the U.S.
 It is also one of the most misunderstood.

In this episode, I sit down with immigration attorney Angelica Jimenez, Esq., Managing Attorney and Founder of the Law Offices of Angelica Jimenez, to break down what the system actually looks like for the people living it every day.

We talk about what “doing it the right way” really means, why immigration is far more complex than paperwork, and how politics directly impacts families trying to stay together.

This conversation is honest, eye-opening, and one I think everyone needs to hear.

Follow Angelica on Instagram at @Abogada_Angelica_Jimenez and @AttorneyAngelicaJimenez to stay informed and support her work.

Listen now and subscribe.

For resources, organizations mentioned, and ways to support immigrant communities, check out the show notes.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to Working Girl, the podcast where we pull back the curtain on the real work of building a more just world. I'm your host, Rachel and Paula. Each episode, I sit down with women who are on the front lines of change, organizing, advocating, healing, and challenging the systems that shape our lives. Together we talk honestly about the victories, the setbacks, and the deeply human stories behind the fight for justice. Because in a world where change can feel painfully slow, these are the women who refuse to give up. Welcome back to Working Girl. Today I have an incredible guest. I know you guys are going to learn so much. This is a subject that I have had so many people ask if I'm gonna touch on on the podcast, and I think we have the perfect guest to do that. Today I have Angelica Jimenez, who is a Florida immigration attorney and the founder of the law offices of Angelica Jimenez, a law firm based in Pembroke Pines, Florida. She is a practicing attorney for over 13 years, focusing primarily on U.S. immigration law, helping individuals, families, and businesses navigate immigration processes. That is a mouthful, and it is also like the Lord's work because, as we all know, no matter what time of the century you are listening to this, this is such a tough and complex subject in the US and a lot of other countries as well. So diving right in, Angelica, obviously, like I just said, it's a complex field, but a deeply personal field. And I'd really love to start by hearing about your kind of journey, getting into it. Like what first drew you to this work?

How Angelica Found Immigration Law

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much, Rachel. I absolutely am excited about shedding light on this very important, relevant topic. But yes, the way that I got started was actually I was in the midst of the fallout from the 2008 crash. I was practicing foreclosure law actually, and I had gone out on my own. And a client that actually had retained her services to help save their home, he said, you know what? I need to get my citizenship. And I said, okay. He's like, can you do it for me? And I thought, well, let me give this a go. You know, this was a subject that we had in law school. And I said, well, why not? And that's where I started. So I helped him. Then I had to help his wife get a green card. And it kind of just started from there. And I said, you know what, this is something positive. I mean, the privilege of uniting families, helping families, not being on, you know, the side of deporting families, you know, it's really rewarding work. So I said, you know what? I really started liking it. And I just kind of took off from there.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

I feel like sometimes we'll get stories that it's like, ever since I was five, like I knew this is what I wanted to do. And I love that it kind of fell into your lap, but then it just became your entire niche and passion.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yeah, absolutely. It's one of those things that I never thought that I would be practicing immigration law, but it just kind of sought me out, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

And maybe it's that same story, but was there a moment earlier in your career when you realized just how important this work would be for people's lives?

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Actually, there's not really like one moment that I specifically remember, but it just keeps happening. So as you start working on different cases, you meet different people. And you have to remember like the beautiful thing is that we're part of a community. So you start to meet members of your community, and you start to learn their stories, how they got to the United States, and then you start to learn everything that's on the line. The children that they have growing up here, the schools that they're going to, oh, the same school that I went to, things like that. So you really start to feel integrated in your community. You're like, you know what? What? That's the owner of the restaurant, that Mexican restaurant that I love, or you know, that Vietnamese place with the really good ph. You just really start hearing everyone's story and you start realizing that these are our neighbors. This is our community. These are the people that we care about. These are the people that your kids go to school with, you know, these are the people that you see day to day. So you want to do good work for them. You want to help them. You want to keep them here. You want to keep them safe.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

It's interesting. I think like no matter what field someone works in as a guest, the importance of community and that being a driving factor is the probably most common theme threat that ties social justice issues together. Whether it's the community is who you're helping, the community is who you need to make change happen, or educating the community on what's really going on in their streets and neighborhoods.

Community And What Lawyers Do

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Absolutely. And luckily, I get to work in a situation where I help the community, but also part of my job is to educate the community for those that don't understand what immigration law is or how it works, because you know, how we all know it's it's so highly politicized, and you hear so many people talking about it, but nobody really knows what it really entails or what it's like.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

And I'm curious, so what do you wish that people understood about immigration lawyers and the work you actually do day to day?

SPEAKER_01 5:41

The biggest thing is number one, as an immigration lawyer, a lot of times people think it's, oh, it's filling out forms. No, it's not filling out forms, it's advocacy at the end of the day. When we do actually have to do these forms, there's legal questions in there. There's things that a lot of people might miss. So it's kind of a delicate process. And the thing is, it's so highly political. So the process that we would have done for someone maybe three years ago looks completely different today. So the way you would answer questions might be completely different just going off the political climate. But something that I do want people to understand more than anything is when people say, Oh, why don't people do it the right way? That's something that you hear all the time. And I think when people are faced with the reality of what the right way actually means, we would be talking about a separation of family members for like years, you know, someone wanting to bring over a son or a daughter. We're talking, you know, five, six, seven years, you know. If you want to bring, let's say a brother, right? Let's say you came to the United States, let's say you came on a work visa and your brother or sister back home, they're going through a hard time, they have little kids and they want to get established in the United States. We're talking 17 years. So you have to look at it kind of like if you were to apply for a job, right? And you know that the likelihood of getting this job is like 1%. So that's what doing it the right way means in practice. It's not that, oh, that they didn't try to apply or that they didn't go about it through paperwork. No, it's pretty much a no. So, you know, the denial rates for these types of visas is just very, very high because there's just so many people applying.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

I remember my husband's immigration process was was pretty seamless and didn't take very long. And I remember my family at the time being like, wow, see, it's not that hard. And I had to point out to even my husband, like, the difference is that his father back in Zimbabwe had applied for the lottery, the immigration lottery, and had actually gotten it for his whole family. So it was really seamless for them. They came over when they were told they could come over. He studied for the exam, they all passed the tests, then they were citizens. And I also like really tried to educate my husband like you were really lucky to have that benefit of winning the lottery.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

That's extremely lucky. Not everybody wins that diversity lottery. So, yes, he was extremely lucky going through the system with that diversity visa.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Yeah, and like I pointed out to other people, it doesn't mean he did it the right way and everyone else did it the wrong way. There's just a different way of doing it, and that's what they did. I think like people will see just small cases like that and then assume they understand the whole system. Exactly. That happens a lot. For me, I don't.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Right. Yeah, it's true. And and here's the thing, too, it also depends what country you're from. There's a lot of countries that aren't even eligible for a diversity lottery visa. There are other countries that are so oversaturated that the likelihood that you'd I mean, you you're more likely to get hit by lightning, you know. Yeah. So it's, you know, he was very, very fortunate. And unfortunately, we deal with with something called confirmation bias, right? So when you have a certain idea that a system works a certain way, you hear one story and that's enough to confirm what you thought about it. But it doesn't work that way for many, many people. So yeah, he was very fortunate.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Well, and I think also the timing, right? I think back then we didn't have a president who thought Zimbabwe was one of the quote shithole countries in Africa. And, you know, now they don't even let people apply for visas from Zimbabwe. So I try to often remind him as well like you guys really got in at the perfect time.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yep, absolutely. That's another factor too. I mean, it's really unprecedented times. The things that we're seeing right now are really, really just insane. Having practiced, you know, immigration law for as long as I have. And even surviving Trump 1.0, that was a beast in of itself. And we thought, I mean, at least I thought, oh, this is going to be a continuation of the same thing. We faced this before. We'll be able to face it again. And the decisions that are coming from the Board of Immigration Appeals, I mean, have me with my jaw on the floor. This is really, really unprecedented times.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Yeah, and we'll get into that. I I can only imagine even like tidbits you told me off-air. I am so ready to learn from you, honestly. And I know just a little bit for people who have like no interaction or understanding of the immigration system. This is probably a really broad question, but how would you describe what the process actually looks like for people?

The Myth Of Doing It Right

SPEAKER_01 10:51

So there's different ways. So, like we talked about that there's a way where you're in your country and you apply, you know. The way that I like to look at it is that there's different categories. There's the humanitarian route, there's the employment route, and there's the family route. So the humanitarian route, a lot of times those are people that are already here most of the time, although it could be refugees that are fleeing, you know, from a situation in their country. Most of the people that are here have to go the humanitarian route just because they either cross the border at one point in their lives and have been here ever since. There's really not many options for them once they're here. So they usually go the humanitarian route. So we're talking victims of human trafficking. We're talking people seeking asylum, you know, so they're fleeing from their country because there's danger. They they fear for their lives. Okay. There's people that go through the route of a U visa. So a U visa is essentially that they are a victim of a crime in the United States. So we have this process for individuals because what would happen if they weren't eligible for a visa? They wouldn't report crimes. Because they would be scared. They'd be scared to call. And of course, any immigrant that you meet, they're scared to call the police because they're scared of their situation. They don't want what's actually happening right now, where if you do encounter the police, they call ICE right away. And that's the reality right now. That discourages people from reporting crimes. That basically encourages criminal behavior in our communities. So aside from that, so that is a humanitarian visa. Then there's the VAWA, which is Violence Against Women's Act, but it applies for men as well. So this is if you've had some abuse in your relationship, so like in a marriage with a US citizen or a green card holder. So that's the humanitarian route. Then there's the family route. So usually, you know, you have a spouse that can petition you, or you have a son or a daughter that's over 21 years of age that petitions you as a parent, or you know, you can have basically siblings petitioned, but like I said, you know, it could be 17, 18 years until you're you're reunited with your family. So there's the family route, and then there's within the family, there's different preference categories. Okay. So who has higher preference? It's going to be a US citizen spouse who's petitioning you. And there's different categories just according to that. So that's the family route, and then you have the business route, and those are work visas. Usually the work visas are people waiting abroad to have a work visa approved because once a person is here and they're undocumented, they're not eligible for any sort of business visa or student visa or anything like that. You know, a lot of doors are closed for them. So they typically go through the family or humanitarian route. But here's the thing what you know, what happens with a lot of cases is because a person entered undocumented, they need to get a waiver. So if even if they do have family here, they need to be forgiven for their entry into the United States. And only certain people can help them get that, what they call a waiver. Okay. It limits the people that can come. So for example, uh the word anchor baby, right? A lot of people who come in and have United States citizen children, they cannot help their parents apply for this waiver. So they're not considered qualifying relatives. So if your whole plan was, you know, that I'm gonna have kids in the United States and eventually they'll be able to petition, you need to they can put a petition, but they can't get a waiver for you. And if you don't get that waiver, you don't get the green card. So that's why you see a lot of cases of you know, people that have been here 30 plus years and they have no opportunity to get a green card, even though they've paid taxes, they've been working their whole lives, they don't have a single arrest. A lot of them don't even have a single traffic ticket, and there's no route for them. So that just kind of gives you an overview of how the immigration system works here in the United States, and that if you do end up coming undocumented and crossing the border, your options are very, very limited.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Yeah. You know, while you were talking, actually, when you touched on work visas, it made me remember just how many colleagues I've had over the years who were here on work visas and were working here long enough that they had built lives. And they had like both literal and metaphorical equity, right, in their life here. And for whatever reason, when their work visa was up or the company didn't need them anymore, they just had to go home. And it was always so devastating. I don't think I knew a single person who was like, well, I'm ready to go home. I think everyone was trying so hard at the last minute to make something else work or figure out another opportunity. And I think I just remember one in particular before he went home, he was so emotional and just disgust. Like he felt like he had finally gotten a hold of the opportunity and potential that he had seen his whole childhood on TV. And then now it was just being taken from him when he hadn't done anything wrong. And it was so heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Yeah, it is it's very heartbreaking in a lot of situations, especially, for example, H1B visas. The way that it kind of works is it's to the employer's advantage. So, you know, you can have very talented people work for your organization and you can give them this visa that's works three years at a time, right? So a lot of times they max it out, they're here like six years. And until that employer says, I'm going to petition you permanently, you're at their mercy. So yeah, so think about it. I mean, I think, you know, as adults, when we establish ourselves, it's when we get into the workforce, right? So it's when we make money for ourselves, where we're we're getting close to that self-actualization, right? Those goals that we had our whole lives. We're really putting down roots. And that's what happens. Exactly what you explained. Company takes advantage. I mean, it is what it is. You know, the obviously the worker is aware of the way that it works, but if they don't make that final petition, so in that final year that they're here with that H1B, if they don't petition for their green card, that's it. You got to go home. And part of that visa is that you're promising that once it's over, you're going back home.

Humanitarian Family And Work Paths

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Yeah. Well, speaking of people's actual experiences trying to get citizenship, I'm curious, what does the immigration system look like from the perspectives of the families that you're working with? And I'm cheating a little because I already know a story. So please feel free to share any story because I think people really need to hear. Like I think they see it on Instagram or they might see little things on the news, but they're not getting that day-to-day what it's really like for these people who are trying to fight for that life that they want.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

The biggest thing from their perspective is just having patience. And you really have to have a lot of patience. A lot of the cases that we work with families more than anything. And a lot of them are people that, you know, have overstayed or that entered undocumented, but they have a U.S. citizen spouse and they're looking to basically fix their situation. The waiting times have really, really grown over the last few years. That waiver that I was mentioning before, we do those a lot. Now, what used to take six months, it was six months that you would wait for that waiver, has gone up to four years. Now it's starting to speed up a little bit more again. But, you know, just think about that. Four years. And these people, they're not given a work permit, they're not given a social security number. In the state of Florida, they're not even eligible for a driver's license until that waiver is approved. And it's it's not their fault, it's just a long, long waiting list. So there's a lot of people ahead of them, and everything is just slowed down. You see different trends in different administrations. A lot of times they use the manpower to shift them over to, for example, asylum. You know, we gotta do the asylum cases, we gotta move these cases forward. And then you see that everything else has slowed down to a trickle. I've seen cases where, oh my gosh, yes, like the waivers approved, like that green card is so close. And people get tired. We had in the last administration, we had this parole in place program, and people were so excited. You know, they're like, oh, I'm going to apply for this. Basically, I could get, you know, paroled and wait, you know, basically accelerate my process, right? Not have to wait like these four years for this waiver. And it got struck down in the courts. So think about it. People who hired an attorney, they paid attorneys' fees, they paid immigration fees, they paid translations for their documents, all these things to just learn that the process just completely fell through the cracks, you know, in the courts. And so then when you're telling them, oh, but your waivers approved, like now, you know, we get to move forward with your green card process, you know, they start looking around and they're like, I don't want to, you know, pay for the immigration fees for the rest of the process. And you're thinking, like, I have so many clients that would kill to be in your position, you know, no, like you're almost there. And a lot of times, you know, when, you know, they're working with us or they're working with me, like I put it into perspective. But there's also a lot of, you know, a lot of people that don't understand that they may be really close or they don't have like that hope. So they a lot of times they they just kind of give up, you know. And and I get it because it's been so many years that they've been stuck in the system that it just feels like an impossibility. And a lot of life can happen. Yes. Yes, your situation changes, and and you say, you know what, I'm on to something else.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Oh man, I don't know how people do it. There's great lawyers like you, right? Who are really trying to help people. You're not trying to gouge them of all their money. But then I know there are cases too where there are people who are trying to do it the right way, quote unquote. And maybe they're with a lawyer who doesn't have good intentions or is just taking advantage of them for their money. And then that can be really defeating as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

There's a lot of heartbreaking things that we see. Yes, I've seen predatory firms. It really bothers me. I mean, I, you know, I have one client who is actually a friend, and he had a tough immigration situation. And when I asked, like, okay, well, you know, who was representing you? What was going on? And then he showed me the firm that was taking care of his case. And he said, like, he basically abandoned it. And I'm like, why would you abandon, you know, he had a human trafficking visa, you know, or they were working on it, right? And when I took a look, I mean, he told me that he had spent$10,000. I said,$10,000. And he said, yeah. And we got a request for evidence, and she wanted another$10,000. And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa. I mean, you know, and when I looked at it, to be frank with you, Rachel, I mean, I don't know how the attorney sent out the case the way that she did, because it was missing some essential documents. So it seemed like it was designed that way on purpose, so that she would get a request for evidence so that she could shake him down for more money. And listen, there's a lot of good attorneys out there. I mean, I know a lot of very good attorneys in the field. This is something that exists. It sadly exists. The other thing that we see a lot of is in the Latin world, you know, the word notario, right, in Latin countries means someone that's like an attorney or even above attorneys in their countries, right? So they think that a notary in the United States is someone who's like licensed to practice law and licensed to take care of their case. And a lot of times it's a scam. Or it's someone that, yes, they're a notary, but what does a notary do? You know, a notary is basically a witness to you being you and signing a document, right? They don't know that. So there's not a lot of education, and then maybe somebody in the community had, you know, some documents filled out and it worked out for them, and they bring their highly sensitive case to someone like them. That a lot of, I mean, in my experience, I've seen a lot of cases get ruined because they went to someone that just does not have a license to practice law. So that's what we see out there in the field.

Work Visas And Employer Power

SPEAKER_02 24:24

And then on top of all of that, they have to deal with this like taboo of being an immigrant in America and so many people judging them. Like I think, especially in states where we live, like Florida and Texas, the word immigrant is almost like a curse word. I mean, even sometimes like my shirt, which says immigrants make America great, like sometimes my husband will feel self-conscious about me wearing it in public because then he's like, well, people might think it's me. And it's not that he's not proud to be an immigrant. It's just you don't know how people will react to just finding that out. And I truly cannot imagine the pain and like how that impacts your identity and who you are, who you love, who you want to be and build a life. Like to have so many people look at you as if you're less than.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

To be frank with you, there is internalized racism, you know. I've seen it in communities, I've seen it not so much in South Florida, because South Florida is really a melting pot, you know. But when I visit other areas, you know, going to Chicago, places like that, that you see like Latin households, right? Where they'll be one, two generations in, no one speaks Spanish. And you're like, wait, how come the kids aren't speaking Spanish? How come your grandkids aren't speaking Spanish? Like, what's going on? And it's that internalized kind of like racism where they just, you know, the families wanted to integrate so much, and not only that, but just fly under the radar, right? Because to be an immigrant just feels, you know, the way society has made us feel is just icky about it, right? So that they don't even teach, you know, their own kids. They don't take the time to to teach them Spanish. They don't even want them to speak Spanish. The grandkids don't even speak Spanish. Look at when you go to Europe, people speak three, four languages, and that's so, you know, impressive. And that's something to be so proud of that you could speak several languages. But look at us as a country. I mean, I think not too long ago, Marco Rubio was speaking and he spoke Spanish, and then after that, oh, I speak American, I don't speak Spanish. Like as if it was a bad thing that he spoke Spanish, right? So we see that a lot, and it's because of you know, the narrative, because of the politics, right, in this country. And it's it's really, really sad because we should be proud. We're a nation of immigrants for crying out loud, you know? Literally.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Yeah, I mean, I'm only third generation. My great-grandparents immigrated during World War II. So sometimes when people are like, we've been here since whatever year, I'm like, whoa, don't say we're not including it in that. But yeah, it it boggles my mind. Maybe not in some places. I grew up in the Ozark Mountains in Arkansas. Certainly did not see a lot of diversity there. But for the most part, when you look around, you see so much diversity. And I just don't understand how people, when they say like make America great again, it's like, I would imagine if I was a person of color and I'm looking back to a time when America was, quote, great, right? According to white people, carding to the far right, I'm thinking like, wait, was it during slavery, right? Was it during the civil rights movement? Was it when women couldn't vote? Like, when was this so-called great era that was seemingly only great for white people? And it just completely ignores, also, not to mention the fact that most of this country was built by immigrants. Yeah, absolutely. And continues to be built by immigrants.

Waivers Backlogs And Losing Hope

SPEAKER_01 28:15

And continues to be built by immigrants. America's not that old. No, it's a baby. Right. So, I mean, it's not like we've been here for like thousands and thousands of years. No, no, that's actually not true. So we are a nation of immigrants. And the impact that immigrants have had, and I'm just going to undocumented immigrants, the way that they contribute to our economy, okay? They pay taxes. A lot of people want to say, oh, they live off the system, they don't pay taxes. No, they do. Most of them that I encounter, they pay taxes. And a lot of times, that's the way that we're able to defend their cases. That's the way that we're able to show that they've been here X amount of time, right? They contribute a lot. And they're responsible for at least a third of the economy, believe it or not. These are the numbers that I've seen out there. So I believe it. And we see it. And here's another thing: even though immigrant feels like an icky word, you would be shocked because we go to school with people that you find out later on in life. You're, wait a minute, you're DACA? I didn't know that. I thought you were a citizen. How many kids go to school, their parents don't say anything, and they assume that they were born here because they've been here since they were little. There's tons of people that I met like that, even in college, you know, people that I you would never guess. You would never guess. And you find out, wait a minute, what? Your mother crossed the border with you in her arms? Like that's so brave. And I had no idea you were undocumented, you know? And there are people that we're going to school with, that we grew up with. So you'd be shocked, but there's a lot of immigrants out there and a lot of undocumented immigrants, and they're part of America.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Yeah, I fully agree. Talking about the emotions of the people going through this process, obviously, this work itself is incredibly emotional and hard. And I want to know how you carry that weight of your clients' stories while still protecting your own well-being.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

So that's a tough one. It is very emotional. And sometimes a little bit of toxic positivity goes a long way. You know, because you have to be everyone's cheerleader. You really have to encourage them. You really, really got to show them that this is something attainable. And but you also have to give clients realistic expectations, you know. But I'm a firm believer that if there's a will, there's a way. And a deportation order in the end of the day is not the end of the world. It feels like the end of the world for a lot of people. A deportation to be separated from your family is really a horrible, horrible thing. But a lot of times we can overcome these things. I have plenty of cases that people come to me, they look, I have a deportation order. I've had a deportation order for the last five years, right? There's ways we could work around that. So a lot of times we petition the court to reopen the case, to revisit the case. The situation has changed since then. Maybe they've married since then, and we're able to kind of knock on the judge's door and say, hey, let's take another look at this case, because you know, my client has viable relief. And that's like a that's a beautiful thing, you know, to feel like there is a solution. The worst of the worst cases, you know, you have people who entered undocumented, maybe they entered more than once. They have to be separated from their families for 10 years. But that's the worst case scenario. And what does that mean? There will be eventually a reunification. So you really have to exhaust your remedies. Sometimes you have to get creative in order to find relief. You know, I've met with very few cases where there is nothing to do. A lot of people will come to me and they'll say, I was turned away, several offices, that there's nothing that I can do. I have a daughter who's a U.S. citizen. And a lot of times I say, let's start with a petition, okay? Of course, depending on the political climate, depending on the administration. Everything always depends. But we work with them in a way where I want you to have some sort of document, something that if you do have an ICE encounter, that would help you kind of advocate for yourself for it not to go further, right? What ICE doesn't like is someone who's living in the shadows, right? So if you a lot of times it helps to show that you've taken steps to kind of legalize, to fix your situation, right? So the way that I deal with it is just finding a way. And there's a lot of cases that I take home with me. There's a lot of things that I just have to talk out. You know, just yesterday I was dealing with a case, a client of mine who's in Alligator Alley, and he was telling me that he has a little two-year-old son, and that son is just so close to him. And every single day he waits for his dad to come home at the same time. And after he got detained, his son is every night like just waiting for him at the door, and then dad doesn't come home. And we're talking, you know, immigration detention. Keep in mind, these aren't criminals. This is civil. Immigration is civil. So you have people who are in detention, civil detention. This is not a punishment, this isn't a crime that they committed. You know, let's be very, very clear. So it's just heartbreaking, you know, when you hear that that there's a two-year-old boy at, you know, at home waiting on the other side of the door, waiting for his dad to come home, and he just doesn't come home and he doesn't know why. It's traumatic for these families to explain that to their kid. Dad's not coming home because he's been detained by ice. I mean, you can't explain that to a two-year-old. So it's really heartbreaking stuff. And the only solace I have is I'm gonna keep fighting, you know. And I I give him my word. I look him in the eyes and I say, I will do everything in my power to get you out of there and reunited with your family. As practitioners, that's all we could do is just know that we are giving 100%.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Yeah. I mean, I was gonna ask you what resilience looks like for you in this system, but I think she just answered it. And I think that's gotta be your way of resilience because it is a system that seems it's built to beat people down. And I don't think the lawyers and the practitioners and the advocates are immune from that.

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SPEAKER_01 35:17

Yeah, absolutely. And especially when you see an administration like this one right now, you know, when you have different administrations where look, everything, and mind you, this might be a little bit controversial because some administrations are, although they're pro-immigrant, very helpful, you don't see ICE doing the horrific things that they're doing right now, then you see the cases aren't moving along and this everything is just kind of stagnant because there's no urgency, there's no surprisingly, and this is not me defending the administration by any means, but surprisingly, we see things move a little bit quicker now that there's been such an emphasis on immigration, these waiver cases that are taking forever. We've seen like approvals after approval after approval come in. So there is a silver lining, and that's what you got to focus on. You have to focus on fighting. I mean, it's the nature of the beast, and yeah, you can't be discouraged. A lot of times there's strategy involved. We know what this administration looks like right now. So, how can I get you to survive these next four years? So a lot of times it's it's strategy, it's you have to find the way to advocate for your client and you cannot let them beat you down. And and maybe it's because I'm just, like I said, a victim of toxic positivity. But I, you know, that's how I feel about it. I say, okay, we're gonna figure out the strategy of how we could get your your case to stay in court for X amount of time, as much as we can, so that we could buy time for the next administration to come in and hope that we have some reprieve there.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

It's a really healthy way to look at it. And it's interesting to hear that it's moving faster. But like you said, I mean, I think it's because immigration is the hot topic these days and seems to be the buzzword out of everyone's mouth, whether they support it or don't support it. I've talked to a lot of women in social justice, and one thing that constantly gets brought up is the invisible labor that they carry, right? So, like the empathy, the emotional presence, the advocacy beyond just their job description.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Do you feel that in your work? I do feel that a lot in my work. There are some parts where you feel that there's certain expectations because you're a woman, you should be more available, more empathetic, it give more of your time, lend more of an ear. Things that are required of us that I know for sure that if I was a male practitioner, that wouldn't be expected of me. So it does make things a little bit challenging and you know, make that ability to look on the bright side and be very positive more important, right? Because if we let ourselves kind of be pulled down and get into a negative cycle of there's no point, or you know, just you know, these feedback loops of like, well, you know, why are we gonna put up a battle if the judges aren't finding in our favor? You really, as a woman, the client looks to you kind of to be more empathetic about their situation, to listen a little bit more, to explain things more to them, to be there more for them, to encourage them more. And that's why it's really important for you to stay positive and understand that that's something that we can't really escape. You know, what am I supposed to say to a client? Like, oh, well, if you went to Bill Bob over there and you gave him your case, you wouldn't be, you know, asking him to hold your hand like you're asking me. But at the end of the day, the way, you know, resilience, we were talking about resilience, is just accepting that, you know, accepting that and realizing that maybe God brought you this person because they needed to hear it from you. They needed you to be there. You have a special skill that maybe Bill Bob over there doesn't have, and you're able to guide someone, right? To guide their family and to just really be real with them, give them realistic expectations, but hold their hand along the way, you know, and tell them the truth and tell them what it's going to look like, you know, that you're a beacon of hope at the end of the day. And that's a big weight, but it's also a privilege.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Yeah, I can imagine. For people who are not immigrants but want to support immigrant communities, what do you think they can do?

Shame Language And Internalized Racism

SPEAKER_01 39:50

So there are a lot of organizations that do a lot of good work and actually a lot of work that helps support us as immigration attorneys. So ACLU, for example, has been pivotal in the Supreme Court, you know, basically opening the way, right? So they run so that, you know, we can walk, that sort of thing. Or I think I said it backwards. But regardless, they kind of open up the way for us to be able to be successful in our litigation. So organizations like that, Catholic charities, they do wonderful work. Basically, to support any of those organizations, because they really go in there and they advocate for change, things that us we can't do on the ground. These attorneys come together, they make class action lawsuits so that we then can seek relief for our clients and our communities.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Yeah. No, that's really interesting. I followed the ACLU for a long time, and it's always really motivating and inspiring to see the work they're doing. Because sometimes when you start going about your life, if you're not an immigration lawyer and you're not buried in it, you can kind of forget what is happening and what work is being done in the background. And I really encourage listeners to follow like you on social media, follow organizations like the ACLU because it will keep you up to date on not what's on the news, but what's actually being fought for on behalf of the people that you care about around you.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Yeah, absolutely. National Immigrant Justice Center, for example, there's a lot of organizations out there.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Yeah, definitely. All right, wrapping up, I would love to know what keeps you motivated to continue doing this work.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Families. Families. I mean, just like ours, that's what keeps me motivated when I see how happy a mom or a dad or a sibling is, you know, the sparkle in their eye of like, oh my gosh, you know, they got their green card, or oh my gosh, they got their citizenship, or, you know, we could finally be together. It's really, really rewarding work. And I'm really, really thankful that I get to be on this side. There's people that are deporting people for a living. And no shade to them, right? But it's so much nicer to go to sleep at night and know that you're doing something positive, that you're helping your community. When you help a family, you're helping your community. You help everyone around you, you know. It's a positive ripple effect, right? So that's the beautiful thing about it. That's what keeps me going. It's so rewarding when people just reach out and they're like, thank you so much. You know, you've really made a difference in our lives. It goes really far.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Not to mention how many future generations of those families you've now kind of helped secure an opportunity or potential for a better life for.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Absolutely, absolutely. And when you hear their stories, first of all, you know, let me say, because a lot of people say, Oh, I would do it the right way, you know, I would do this, I would do that. If you lived in a warrant, like let's say, and geez, you know, I don't I don't even want to put this in the universe, but what if we were in the middle of a war and we had a land, you know, uh invasion here, whatever it was, right? And we're fighting a war in our backyard. What wouldn't you do for your family? Let's say we had gangs that were out of control, that the police were even scared of them, right? That they don't have enough resources to protect us, to protect our communities, to protect our family. What wouldn't you do for your family? Are you gonna tell me that you're gonna sit there for 10 years and you're not gonna try and find the first flight out of here and go with your tourist visa to, you know, wherever and start? You know, do you think anyone wants to pick up and start over again in a new country? You know, not many people really want to do that. Most people that I meet, they were successful in their countries, they were doctors in their countries, they were lawyers in their country. And all of a sudden, things happen and they lost their country. And then they had to go start from zero in a new nation. Nobody wants to do that. These aren't people who just come over and just wanted to ruin your day. That's not how it works. Nobody wants to pick up and start from zero. And at the end of the day, we need to put ourselves in those people's shoes and understand that they're people just like us, their families just like us. They are community members, you know, and that can happen to us one day.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

100%. When you think about the future of immigration in the US, what gives you hope?

Support Paths Hope And Closing

SPEAKER_01 44:43

What gives me hope is really been the way people have just been amplifying our message, right? We see what's going on in Minnesota and that there's US citizens that are putting their theirselves in danger, right? Just going out as activists, speaking out. Even social media, even if you feel like, you know what, a march is too much for me, right? Go on social media, talk about it, talk about it. This is what you're doing, Rachel, what you're doing right now is so important because people don't understand the immigration. They think that, oh, I just filled out, you know, an application to come to the United States and be a green card holder, and why didn't you just apply for a green card? It doesn't work that way. So just shedding light on that, having these conversations, so important because we hear all this rhetoric, we hear all, you know, these politicians debating, but people don't understand how it works.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Yeah, no, it's completely true. I mean, I like to think I'm pretty educated and I've learned a wealth of things just on this episode. So I really hope that anyone listening also feels like their mind has been broadened a bit beyond even what they thought they knew, and that they feel encouraged to share with others. Because I think that, you know, going back to what you said about confirmation bias, there are just so many people that they just are stuck in their ways, they're closed-minded, or they just think they know already. And as I often like to point out when listening to news anchors, like we need to be listening to the actual experts and what they are saying is going on and what they are saying is happening, because that is the true look at what's going on in society and what could potentially even impact you, even though you may think that this particular issue doesn't impact you now. So highly encourage everyone listening to share this story, even be brave and maybe share it with someone who has a closed mind about immigration, because you never know whose mind you might open. Thank you so much, Angelica. This has been an amazing conversation. I feel so much more enlightened. I hope the listeners do too. Please, please let them know where they can follow you online or follow you on social media so they can keep up with the amazing work you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Absolutely. So you can find us in both languages on Instagram. I'm Attorney Angelica Jimenez and abogada Angelica Jimenez on Instagram. You can find us on TikTok as well, Facebook, and we try and keep the community updated with all immigration news because an informed community is a strong community. Absolutely. Thank you so much. No, thank you, Rachel. This has been really a privilege.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Thank you for listening to Working Girl. If this conversation resonated with you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with someone who cares about building a more just world. You can learn more about today's guest and find additional resources in the show notes. Until next time, stay curious, stay compassionate, and keep doing the work.