From Oil Town to Climate Justice with Ariana Akbari

What does climate justice actually look like when it’s happening in your own community?

This week, I’m joined by Ariana Akbari, Executive Director of Climate Justice Texas, an environmental advocacy and conservation education organization based on the petrochemical front lines of Southeast Texas.

We talk about why climate change often feels distant until it becomes personal, the challenges of getting people to care, and why starting the conversation might be the most powerful place to begin.

This one will shift how you think about climate justice and your role in it.

Follow Ariana and Climate Justice Texas on Instagram at @arianaakbari @arianaakbariart @climatejusticetexas

And as always, if you want to support the show, please share this episode, leave a review, or send it to someone who needs to hear it.

For resources, organizations mentioned, and ways to support climate justice, check out the show notes.

Transcript

Welcome To Working Girl

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Working Girl, the podcast where we pull back the curtain on the real work of building a more just world. I'm your host, Rachel Ampala. Each episode, I sit down with women who are on the front lines of change, organizing, advocating, healing, and challenging the systems that shape our lives. Together we talk honestly about the victories, the setbacks, and the deeply human stories behind the fight for justice. Because in a world where change can feel painfully slow, these are the women who refuse to give up. All right. This week we have Ariana Akbari, who is the founder and executive director of Climate Justice Texas, the only youth-focused environmental advocacy and conservation education organization based on the petrochemical frontlines of East Texas. She wants you to help her and her organization start and continue the conversation, just like we're doing today, about the changing climate and biodiversity loss. So no matter where you are, who you are, what background you come from, the conversation matters and it starts right here. Welcome, Ariana. I'm so excited to have you.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Thank you so much, Rachel. It's a pleasure to be here on the Working Go podcast.

Growing Up Where Oil Is Normal

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Yeah. I am especially enthusiastic about environmental work, especially because I also live in Texas. So I can't wait to dive into all the work you guys are doing. But first, I want to start with you. So I know you grew up and you were raised in Southeast Texas, surrounded by oil and gas. What shaped, or how did that shape, how you see climate justice today?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

So Southeast Texas is a really interesting place to be from. I would say growing up here, a little a little more background. You know, my dad is Iranian, my mom is Dutch American, and the town that I'm from is called Niederland originally. And my parents met at a festival called the Heritage Festival, the Niederland Heritage Festival, like a small town fair. So I grew up in this kind of very interesting mix, like a American dream cultural mix meets small town Texas. And for most of my childhood, that was the experience, right? And when you're growing up in Southeast Texas, the oil industry is more like an exposition to your story. So I remember all of my friends, like their parents are always wearing FRC, I think is what it's called, the flame-retardant industrial wear all the time. Like when you go over for like sleepovers, or you know, there's a ton of oil iconography. And like I did this pageant that's really popular around here called cavalcade, and it's like cav oil, emphasis on oil. And so there's just a way in which Southeast Texas has oil embedded into like a small-town Texas landscape. And from there, I went to college, right? And a lot of people, I went to college in Boston, and the dialogue in the Northeast is very different from in Texas generally, I think. And so they were talking about climate change, you know, they were talking about, oh, the climate is changing. And my background growing up again in Southeast Texas was that I wasn't taught about climate change, period. I was taught a lot of like kind of very strange things, like the hole in the ozone is the earth breathing. And, you know, I grew up in this small world where like oil is king, right? So to be exposed to this world where climate change is a real thing and this is really important, I felt really inspired to come back to my community and talk more about that and to have like an intervention in that area.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah, it's interesting because I think for a lot of causes and a lot of activists and people who work in social justice of all kinds, it can be sometimes more of an abstract thing for them that they discover and then get really invested into. But I think what's interesting about your experience was that you were surrounded by climate change and climate issues. And even though, like you mentioned, you weren't learning about climate justice and how we should be better helping our environment, you were still surrounded by it. Your life was molded by it. So I think, or I would imagine going from that experience, then going to the Northeast, learning more about those impacts, it was probably like a huge light bulb moment of like, oh my God, like realizing and connecting all those dots from how you grew up.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Well, honestly, that's a very keen observation because now that you say that, I think that that might also have impacted the way that we formulated some of Climate Justice Texas's programs. Because you're right, the experience of growing up in Southeast Texas and the impacts of things like climate change are very visceral, whether it's the hurricanes that I experienced growing up or the freezes that I'm experiencing now, or you know, the loss of coastlines, the loss of neighborhoods to pipelines, it's all very experiential. And I think maybe that is something that clicked.

Coming Home And Starting A Fight

SPEAKER_00 5:08

I am curious then, what led you from you come back home and suddenly your your eyes have been opened, and now you want to do something. So how did we get from there to climate justice, Texas?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Through a lot of tears and heartbreak, I would say is the genuine answer. You know, I loved my hometown for sure. I do love it still sometimes. But, you know, I had so much faith in how I was I grew up, right? I was a small town, we didn't have a ton of resources, but everybody was very supportive. There was a lot of optimism, I think. And as a result, I was very optimistic. So, you know, when I first came back to Texas, I did have these aspirations of, oh, I have all this great knowledge, and this is the forefront. This is like what people are talking about around the world. This is, you know, I'm starting to think about this at the time. Like Greta Thurnberg is starting her school strike for climate. Like, there's so much dialogue about climate at the time. And I'm like, great, what better place to help with the energy transition than my oil-based hometown? Like everybody is gonna want to be in on this. Like, this is great. So part of it was like that naivety. And then whenever I did come back to Texas, like I was hit immediately. It was like pandemic. Then I was like, my dad has cancer. And then it was like there's a pipeline coming through my neighborhood. So from there, it kind of shifted to a more personalized, I felt very personal about it, right? And so I was like, oh my gosh, like this is so tough. Like I should be able to fight a pipeline, right? Or like people are gonna want to hear about health impacts of chemical plants. And so I kind of found out the hard way, but I'm so I guess stubborn that at this point in my journey, now I have an organization and we're we're fighting the good fight through that.

What Climate Justice Texas Builds

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Yeah. You know, it's funny you touched on kind of the naivety and ignorance of hoping that people will care as much as you do. I feel like that's something that like every young activist or someone who's getting into some sort of activism experiences when they finally witnessed or experienced some great injustice. And then they think like, oh, once the people learn, like once my family knows, like people will get just as passionate. And in my experience, it almost never happens with any cause that I've ever been invested in. I think like there's always people who are like, oh, that's really bad. You know, yeah, like I hope someone's doing something about that. Like, we need to be doing something about it. So I hope people listening, if if you kind of feel that way, or maybe you've come to this podcast because you're feeling like you don't have the community or the people who care just know very much is real for anyone who cares about change in social justice. I think it's about finding your kind of like community and group of people that care, whether it's volunteering or finding like local groups or starting your own organization. So, speaking of climate justice Texas, give us a little more insight into what you guys do, what you guys are about, how you're helping people.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Absolutely. Thank you so much again. And an excellent point again about there needs to be more dialogue, I think, among activists in general about knowing that not everybody's gonna be on your side, even people that you thought were. But that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Or they might, they might believe in, like they might even buy in and be like, no, you're right, that sounds great, but not many people are willing to then like go the extra step and do something about it. And so it can feel really isolating.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Absolutely. More dialogue on that for sure. Important. And yeah, so Climate Justice Texas, we are an environmental advocacy and conservation education organization. And basically breaking that down is within the environmental movement, there's kind of two pillars. One is environmental advocacy, which or like environmental justice, which is more about seeing the discrepancies and injustice in the environment, right? Like there are usually specific, like poor black and brown neighborhoods that are targeted with like chemical outputs or you know, different stuff like that. That's more like the chemical base or like the laws and regulations that govern something like the chemicals, that kind of thing. And then on the other component is conservation. And conservation is about conserving the land. So that's gonna be like your national parks, your state parks, any kind of land trust. That is conservation. And these two pillars, traditionally, environmental justice has been kind of like the bread and butter of Democrats or liberals in the environmental movement, and conservation has been the bread and butter of Republicans and conservatives. So another thing that we're hoping to do is kind of like bridge the gap across the environmental movement through this one, through our approach to the environment, because we work in an area that is, you know, Jefferson County is a swing county in terms of its politics, but the surrounding areas are very, very red. And so we're definitely cognizant of who we're working with, where we're working, and how we want to work on it. And that being said, you know, at Climate Justice Texas, we have three different programs right now that we are piloting. The first is a arts and ecology zine. So we have just now closed our submissions for our zine, which we're going to release in the spring in a digital platform. We're also going to be building out our zine in conjunction with an organization called the Climate Justice Museum, which is based in Houston. And we're holding a collaborative installation for our zine work so people can come through and participate in it at their museum space during something called CERA Week, C-E-R-A week, which is there's a lot of protests that happen in Houston whenever they have a lot of oil, like an oil and gas conference, I think. I haven't been before personally. This will be my first year participating as an organization. But yeah, so we're excited to do that, and we're gonna have people who participate create their own. I think we'll do like original Earth Day posters, something like that, speaking to the original vernacular of what Earth Day was like. Because originally when Earth Day came out, a lot of the visual imagery was like gas masks, and like it was a lot more physical, right? Like the violence was really physical, and now it's more like planetary, which is great, but it's very greenwashed. So that's one of our programs because we do blend art and ecology. Our other programs, we have East Texas Landscape Legacy Project, which is a film-based project, and that is the way that we are working on starting the climate conversation in our region. Because in Texas, a lot, well, I believe in climate change, right? Climate change as a conversation starter is a really good way to get a door slammed in your face in most of Texas. And so we're hoping to introduce people to the concept that the climate is changing by having them share their own testimonies of how they've seen the landscape change in their lifetime. And so we are a youth-focused organization, but we also notice that the keepers of the knowledge of environmental stewardship, they tend to be in an older demographic of like 65 plus. So a lot of our testimonies are from the older, like our wise elders, so that we can see, you know, their account of how the landscape has changed and what we've missed because of the landscape changing and what we could have value in bringing back. And then our third program is we haven't done this yet. So previous to like this past year, we had been co-hosting events. So our third program is kind of a remnant of our original model. And so we're going to be hosting kind of like little environmental advocacy chats where we bring in like an expert to speak on a certain topic, whether that's permitting or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

I love hearing about all those programs, especially being a creator of myself. I love hearing about the zine and the work. I wish Dallas and Houston weren't four hours apart, or I would absolutely come see them. Yes. For our other listeners who are not based out of Houston or are in other countries, you mentioned it will be digital. So will they be able to see the work that's being done?

Houston And Climate Impacts Up Close

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yes. Thank you so much for saying that. Yes, they will be. And stay tuned, follow our website, which is www.climatejusticetexasallspelled out.org, and our social media at Climate Justice Texas, and we will post on there about whenever we have the zine out. Also, following our collaboration with the Climate Justice Museum for Sierra Week, if we're able to, you know, platform our zine first like digitally, then like hyperdigitally with that organization, we might open it to people globally to kind of submit their interpretation of that as well.

unknown 14:09

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

So you mentioned Houston. For those who are not in the US or maybe just don't know, Houston is towards the south of Texas, near the coast. I lived in Houston myself for a year, right out of college, and was overwhelmed by the presence of oil and gas. And I mean it's everywhere, like every building, every billboard. If you go to not the very ideal beach in Galveston, Texas, uh, that's very dirty, you'll see all the oil rigs like out in the water. And so for people who may not know that southern Texas, especially southeastern Texas, is so predominantly oil and gas, which you've touched on a bit. I think it's helpful in a good segue for one thing that I think is a big struggle with climate justice, which is that I think when people hear about a climate crisis or they imagine the climate change, they often picture really far away disasters. I'm curious for you to elaborate more on what it actually looks like where you live, and how is climate justice impacted by the actual climate change happening?

SPEAKER_01 15:21

I'm going to touch on two parts of your question. The first is kind of contextualizing Houston and the surrounding areas. You know, going back to this thing about how whenever you grow up in Southeast Texas or Houston, Greater Houston, you're right. Like oil and gas is so saturated, the visual iconography, whether it's like oil rigs or like you said, in Houston, that's where the headquarters of most major oil and gas companies are, just the buildings and the sheer number of them. It's when you're there and you grow up in it, it's just the background, right? But then if you have people who come in from outside, they're like you, you know, you came in and you were like, you're from Arkansas, correct? Originally, which is a beautiful state with lots of great foliage. And then you come into Houston and you see, like, oh wow, that's a lot of oil and gas. And it's kind of shocking. And so I think this duality is important to kind of like hold because it is strange that these two worlds exist simultaneously. Yeah, so I guess some contextualization there. I also want to rep Galveston because I think we have to start being nice to Galveston and her water, even if her water does frequently have E. coli, among other things. It is a running joke in Texas that like Galveston water is like just like dirty because it looks very brown.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Yeah, it's very brown, which I know is because of the sediment, right? But it doesn't look great.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yeah, it's because of the sediment. And I'd also like to maybe put into like the manifestation ether, which is that I would love to see a passenger train, a passenger train from Houston to Galveston, so that people can just like train it and then embrace the beach more, you know, embrace Galveston.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yeah, it's such a short trip. And I mean, I was always willing to drive it. Like I would just go by myself on like a Saturday and just chill out on the beach because that was the only option we had location-wise. But that would be great if there was like better. I mean, that speaks to a bigger issue in the US, which is that public transportation sucks here, especially if you're not in a major metropolitan city. So maybe if they had some incentive from for oil and gas to do it, I bet they would do it then.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Oh, I don't want to think like that, but you're right. Probably if they did. Yeah. But it would it probably wouldn't be a passenger rail.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Exactly. They would take it from the people. They'd be like, oh, we can move stuff from our warehouses easier? Great.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Yeah. And some might say that they have already done that. But yes. And then to your second question, of is it like how do we visualize climate change or how do we visualize climate justice locally?

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah.

Politics, Jobs, And The Taboo

SPEAKER_01 18:00

So again, our task is about just starting the conversation on climate. And so I think a lot of people now. So also important to say most people in Texas do not believe in climate change or the changing climate because it's pitched as a politicized concept, I think, for a lot of people. But if you ask them, like, oh, do you think that the climate is changing? A lot of people are already aware of that. And they'll be like, Yes, the climate is changing. We have had like more severe storms, right? And we have had the freeze is kind of strange that like took out our electric grid, and we, you know, had these kind of like disastrous semi-humanitarian kind of issues, right? And that's very shocking for people, even if they're used to them, I think. So, in terms of, you know, we talk about justice, and justice can mean so many things. And for us, I think we've really had to accept the inherent violence of the system in some ways. And so that's why a lot of our work, it's just about starting the climate conversation, right? It's about engaging youth, especially, because we do believe that young people are the ones who haven't been solidified into the systems of violence exactly just yet. So they do have more flexibility in their approach and their thinking. And also it's why it's important to talk to older people also who have been the stewards of this area for so long, so that we can see what exactly have we lost, like whether that's our coastline. You know, the coasts here along the coast of Texas have moved so far inland to the point that they've like washed out roads and stuff. So that's definitely something that you can see even in the course of my lifetime, right? So for us, what would justice look like? I think justice would look more extreme, right? For me, it would be a total energy transition from fossil fuels and the replacement of all of the biodiversity loss that we've had, including animal extinctions or something like that. But in a short term or like a more practical vision is that we just hope people start to talk about climate change and what that means for them. And we're open, we don't really want to push too much on people, right? We just want to start the dialogue. We want people to start talking, we want them to start thinking.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah. You mentioned how climate justice and climate change has become so political now. I think, especially in places like Texas, that is very, very true. It's almost like climate change is a taboo subject. I'm curious where you see the biggest disconnect between political decisions and then the real people's lives being impacted.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

I do understand for a lot of people in this area, climate change is a taboo, not because of like political or partially because of political things, but also because, you know, economic insecurity. Um, and like the oil and gas industry is the largest employer of people in Southeast Texas, or maybe I think in Texas, maybe in the nation. I don't know. I don't know the statistics. Um, but on a practical people-facing level, you know, we've had a very difficult time ever since the the new administration taking over. And also in conjunction with the existing Texas governance. I don't want to say too much because I also don't want to be a target. We already are a target because we have climate justice in our name. Regrettably, we didn't know that was going to be a target, right? We just had a name. Because, you know, the concept, a word itself is not political, or at least for us. We were just like, okay, we're interested in climate justice. So I guess the thing that we've really had to navigate is I think we had to find out that political decisions are not being made in our favor. They are definitely being made in the favor of large corporations. And I think that's something like most people find out in America at some point. And then from there, the question is then like, what can we do in this scenario, right? Where politicians don't make Decisions with the people in mind. Because, you know, we do try some civic engagement, like we are working on voters' guides and educating people about positions, especially in Texas, that do impact these kind of decisions, like the Texas Railroad Commissioner, which actually doesn't have to do anything with railroads because they actually deal with oil and pipelines, or you know, the agricultural commissioner, things like this, like more localized positions that people might have influence in. But we're not directly interacting with that because we are hoping to kind of like grow a new thought body.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Something that's interesting to me. That's why I think like the voting guys are great. I think it's great when organizations help provide those. Because I think a lot of people don't realize, A, I don't think they realize how many political decisions are made that they're not aware of. I started listening to a podcast called Progress Texas, and they literally will break down on a regular weekly cycle like all the legislation that was brought forward in Texas and like how it impacts the different parts of the state. And I think that that is a big issue that people don't even realize what's being decided on their behalf. And I think a lot of times people will also assume that whoever they voted for will always have their best interests, no matter what they're voting on. But there's a lot of issues and a lot of things that are brought forward in legislation. They're bound to not support something or vote for something that you would have wanted them to. Like I just think when we have local or regional or national elections, and there are so many propositions, right, that they'll ask you like, do you support? Do you not support? And A, I think it doesn't help that they word it in the most like legal jargon possible because people just don't know what it's talking about. And then B, there are so many, and people will just kind of vote on a whim and be like, oh, I think that sounds okay. Like, sure, not knowing the impact of it. Then I think you look at a broader lens, like the national lens, and you see how just in January, our government left the Paris climate agreement for a second time. And I think a lot of people probably hear that, and they probably think, even liberals probably hear that and think, oh, that's not great, but they don't actually know what that means, right? Does that impact us? Does that impact other countries? Like, how does that really affect anyone? That lack of transparency and lack of resources for people to understand what their governments are deciding on their behalf is really important to address.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yeah, I think that you've also touched on a really key point there. And I'm gonna have like a darker outlook on this a little bit, which is that I think there's two things that come to mind. First is that I think there is in America deliberate voter miseducation or non-education. I think it is like deliberately built into the system.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

I agree. Because you could just make it easier to understand.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Yeah, you could make it easier to understand. You could also, you know, I went to Texas public school and there's not a lot of like political literacy, right? Or in my classes. And even if you take something like the AP government exam, which is across the nation like a standard, there's not a lot on I don't I mean, like I took that exam, I did well, but I knew nothing, nothing about like the Texas legislative process, right? Right. Like nothing. And that's a problem. And it's a deliberate problem, in my opinion. And then on top of that, you're like a very driven person, right? And you're I think we talked previously about how you are an activist in your own right as well, whether or not you claim it all the time. I do claim it.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

I claim it. Okay. I just have so many issues I care about that it's a little like, ugh.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

That's okay. At least you care. And you care a lot. You're an extra activist. And you know, you've worked on your own methodologies, or maybe you naturally have like a higher capacity to deal with those kind of things because within the system, everybody is overwhelmed and people are overworked. They're overworked, they're overwhelmed, and the last thing that they want to do when they come home is figure out the Texas legislative process, right? Or the US legislative process. And so I do think that a lot of what has happened is like a deliberate disenfranchisement of the American people. That's yeah, am I off topic or is that the correct topic?

Reaching People Through Local Trust

SPEAKER_00 26:31

No, I actually think that's a really interesting point because I think the reason, like for me personally, that I have been able to kind of figure out my go-to methods for deciphering legislation or figuring out what's going on or understanding how I want to vote is because of how much activism I've done throughout my life and how much disenfranchisement, how many issues I've encountered with different organizations, how I've watched groups like your own struggle with getting things passed or just getting support here or there. I think when you work more closely within the system, you're able to really see the flaws. And when we're talking about people who, whether they are invested, you know, and care about these issues or they don't, we're talking about people who are working really hard to get food on the table, to keep a roof over their families' heads, to just pay their bills, keep up with this economy. And now they're being expected to pay attention to all the legislation that's going on and to know what's going on with climate issues in their area. Like if you were to go to your neighbor and say, you know, we need to care, this pipeline's being built. I can see someone who's really in the grind of just trying to survive every day, just saying, like, okay, but how does it actually impact? Just tell me how it impacts me. Like, I don't need all the jargon, I don't need all the mess. And like then having to decide, is it worth my time and energy and resources to care and to do something? And I truly understand why for a lot of people the answer is no, right? If they're already struggling so much, often because of the trickle-down effects of these very systems, but it's very easy and understandable by the normal citizen of any country would be like, I'm just trying to pay my bills, man. You know, like I don't care. The people that matter will take care of that. And they don't realize, like, they've convinced you that you're not the one that matters in the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Exactly. So I think you did bring up one of the biggest challenges that we do face, which is people are really it's surprised. It's another thing that's been surprising to me, actually, is like how easy people are willing to write off climate change.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

I feel like out of most of the social justice issues, climate change is always one that people are like, eh. You know, like they're like, it's fine. And maybe because it doesn't feel as tangible, because it's not like happening to them personally. Yeah. I don't know. It reminds me actually of that analogy you said to me once about the phone thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Yeah, it's like climate change is going to appear as like a series of disasters that you see on your phone until it's in your backyard.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Right. So it doesn't feel personal or like it matters to actual human beings until it literally is happening to you in your backyard.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Yeah. And, you know, I think we are seeing it happen more in people's backyards. Like I think the last time we talked about that, we talked about the massive storm and like the landslides in North Carolina, which were terrible.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

And yeah, and then the flooding that we had in Texas, that where a lot of those young kids died and disappeared.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Which time?

SPEAKER_00 29:43

At the camp.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Oh, that flooding, yes. And it's so, you know, like even you just said that we had that conversation not too long ago, and I was like, forgot.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

I know. And it's like how many environmental catastrophes have happened around the world since our last conversation. You know, I think it's so different for everyone depending on where they live and the type of environment and climate they live in. But people are experiencing climate change and climate crises every day, whether they know it or not.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Whether they know it or not, and increasingly they're feeling it. And going along with this barrier of you said, if I go to my neighbor and I try to talk to them about like, let's talk about climate change. Like I said, that is a very good way to get a door shut in your face or to get threatened to get shot in Texas again.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah. And again, a lot of places in the world can't contemplate that kind of environment as well, where you might knock on a neighbor's door and they threaten to they threaten your life.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Yeah, like the gun's already out and they're they're like, what are you doing here?

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Yeah, exactly. What are you doing here? And something that's been really amazing for me getting into climate work is especially in the Gulf South and the Texas, Louisiana corridor, where we are home to like Cancer Alley, Petrochemical Alley, like the largest exports in the nation, is just seeing how many different ways different groups or people have gone about their advocacy, their environmental advocacy. There is a woman named Rochetta Ozan who works with a group called the Vessel Project of Louisiana. They're based out of Lake Charles, and their approach to climate justice is mainly through mutual aid. So she's definitely like a pillar of her community. She does a lot of mutual aid, and that's how she's able to get in the door. But, you know, let me think about or Sharon Levine, very famous from Baton Rouge, she won the Goldman Prize a little while back. She used a tactic that I think you can't use so much anymore, which is like a it was a civil rights law which said something about like inequality in black communities, right? Like you can't poison black communities. But they actually recently the administration did away with that law, something like that. So you can't actually use that fight. But you learn from that.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

God forbid that the people show how any type of issue is impacting a minority group or community that already suffers greatly for other social justice issues. Like God forbid they cross over and we demonstrate it.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yeah, absolutely. They don't who the powers that be really didn't like that. Or let me think of other. You know, there's a lot of great groups, like Texas Campaign for the Environment is a bigger one. I really love the team out of Amanecer People's Project, which came out of the Sunrise Movement. Kind of, they branched off in an El Paso location. And I call them kids, they're young adults. Those kids are really tough out at Amanecer. Shout out to Miguel and Angel and their team because what they've done that's really revolutionary, that we kind of emulate in our own way, is their branding is like youth friendly, right? And a lot of their branding is also, you know, El Paso is a very predominantly Hispanic community, right? So they do a lot of Spanish and English dual language programming, and it's just fun. Like their work is more militant than ours, you know. Our approach is we're in the branch that we call like climate optimism a little bit. That's what we're pushing because like we're trying to be engaging and friendly. So it's just been really exciting to see like how different groups and learn about like how different groups kind of like go about their approach to get people to care.

Youth, Grief, And Climate Optimism

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Yeah, especially the young people now, you know, so many people are quick to judge them for different things. Or even myself, like, you know, my generation is like we were the generation where, you know, we didn't have technology the way that it is now, or social media until much, much later. Like, I don't think Facebook like properly was a thing until like my senior year of high school. And even then, I remember looking at it like, why would I do this? Like, this isn't gonna stick, this isn't gonna stay around. I I just imagine like one of the benefits of having all that technology was being able to grow up and actually know what was happening around you, around the world, what is going on, like even just, you know, when you looked at all the gun violence that's happened in schools, I was so inspired by the students who really stepped up and they didn't wait for adults to say something. So I'm not surprised to hear that their approach is a little more militant or a little different and more assertive because I think each generation has a different approach based on the lived experience that they had. And I think they've only ever seen all of it right in front of their face. So they're like, guys, why aren't we doing this? You know, why aren't we talking about it? And younger generations very much know that they will suffer the most from a lot of this environmental impact, even more than we are now. And so they're like, guys, we're still young. Y'all are all gonna be dead by the time that we're facing the ramifications of these decisions you're making.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yeah, and that's a great point as well, is about I think the mindset for older generations versus younger generations, and also informing our approach, which is decidedly more optimistic, or like we're trying to be fun, optimistic, right? Keep it upbeat. Climate change, the changing climate and natural disasters, but keep it upbeat. And a part of that is because whenever, well, first of all, Jefferson County, which is where we're based, does have like some of the highest rates of depression in the nation or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

I was just gonna say, you have to know your audience.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yeah. So we're depressed here, which is like it's something that you see, you know, when you see industry, you're going to see marginalized communities, you're going to see increased levels of violence, you're going to see prison complexes, you're usually going to see military infrastructure, and you're going to see depression and alcoholism. Like all of these things, they're kind of like sociologically demonstrated already. We know that these things all occur together, right? And one of my personal experiences seeing the young people in my hometown, even younger than me, is that I was noticing there were, you know, there's a lot of sadness and there is a lot of self-harm among the kids who are in high school now and a little older, right? And that was really worrisome for me as well. And talking to them about concepts like climate change within that context of their emotions, right? A lot of them, they are aware just because of what you said, growing up digitally integrated, right? They've seen the ice caps melting and they've seen like the polar bears dying, and they've seen images of famine, right? Which I think older generations saw, but it saw in a different way. And they're sad and they feel really powerless, right? And I think most people, when you think about something like climate change, maybe we talked about this as well, is like it's such an abstract, right? And part of the goal is making it like physical. Like, what is this? You know, and how could I, you know, I'm from Southeast Texas, and you want me to like fix the ice caps melting? Like it feels really difficult, right? And so that's why, again, a lot of our approach is it's just trying to engage people in the conversation because I think a lot of people, they already have the thoughts in their head about how the climate's changing and they feel really big emotions about it. But really, what they need is connection, right? They need to feel, like you said, to feel supported. They need to feel like they can talk about this.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

And they're not the only one who cares.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Yeah, and they're not the only one who cares. And so I think that's just part of the larger problem. It's just like bringing it into conversation and making it okay to talk about and not yelling at people, right? Who bring up things. So we don't yell at even people who yell at us.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

It can be hard in Texas, but uh yes. Mostly the crazy traffic on our highways, I do yell at those people.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

I'm glad you do. You've got to. I sometimes do have some road rage, but I'm not proud of it.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

And I have to, we have to be careful about that in Dallas because like the amount of fatalities due to road rage in Dallas every year is insane. But sometimes it'll get me like, and I I'll admit, like in Texas, we drive really fast. Okay, we do. Whenever my husband, who's from another country and his family visits or friends visit, and they're in the car and one of us is driving, they're like, Why are we going a hundred miles an hour? And I'm like, only a hundred. I I thought we were going faster. Yeah. And so when you then combine a ton of people doing that and they don't know how to drive and they're all insane, a weird tangent, but no, it's a good tangent. For those of you who get road rage, I understand and I empathize.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Well, you know, we're gonna we're gonna all tie it back to the way that our infrastructure has been built to not allow for conversations around the environment, the forced infrastructure expansions of the major highway system, the lack of regulation and education for drivers, and um one more plug for trains. We could be on trains.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

I swear I would, in a privileged world, move to Europe just for the train system. I would not drive. I understand. I would never drive.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

But it shouldn't have to be a thing about, oh, we have to move to Europe to have a train system. You know, theoretically, we love to say America is the greatest country in the world. So let's make America have trains again. Okay, that was too corny.

Coping, Team Care, And Fear

SPEAKER_00 39:17

You know, Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory would have loved it. He was obsessed with trains. Okay, so we talked a bit about the depression and the emotions that people are feeling. I actually want to dive into how this work makes you feel and the people in your organization and climate justice. Obviously, with everything we've talked about, anyone would feel overwhelmed or often discouraged. And I'm curious about what that experience is like and also what helps you keep going.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Also, a very great question. And, you know, the more you talk about this, I wish that there were more, you know, there are mental health advocacy organizations, right? And that's great unilaterally, but yeah, I wish that there were more organizations working on something like specific environmental mental health kind of dialogue, right? And maybe we'll have a program about that at some point. Yeah. So that is that is food for thought. But, you know, for me, I did it have to get a therapist, right? Which was really helpful. And I'm also a Reiki practitioner.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Oh my god, we're gonna have to talk about that outside of the recording because I am obsessed with Reiki.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Oh my gosh, I love that. I am very, very pro-Reiki. I think everybody should be Reiki certified. I think it's great.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

I made my husband do it and he thought it was the weirdest thing in the world, but I don't care. I loved it so much. I absolutely feel things happening. And anyway, another tangent, but I love that you do that.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Absolutely, yes. And, you know, all of these things. I guess my propensity for kind of like trying everything also stems from just how violent the system felt to me, right? And it yeah, had to have coping mechanisms, right? And if um, you know, therapy worked to some extent, and meditation worked to some extent, and affirmations worked to some extent, and like eating whole foods worked for some extent, like all of these kind of like self-care or wellness, well-being, they're all concepts I've definitely explored and continue to have within my own practice. And then I think, you know, for my team, part of it has been like the way that I built my team is I try to bring people onto the team who either they care about the environment or they care about arts or they care about Southeast Texas or they care about belonging, right? I think that's another big one. I tried to get people who will uplift you when you're down, right? So like people who are supportive, people who do engage, right, who show up. And I think that's a really important thing is like finding people who show up because one of the most tiring things I think about activism or environment is like when you show up and the people that you thought were gonna show up with you just do not. And then, you know, you're gonna break, right? It's already an uphill fight. And if you don't have support, then you're just not gonna make it. And so part of it is just surrounding yourself with people who have the ability to uplift others, and then also being cognizant, you know, the way in our team, I try to make sure that I'm not very rigid with how we like get our programs done because I also respect, you know, we're a team also of we're all women, all young women, but we do have supportive men in our lives, and we are hoping to have more men on the team in the future. Yeah, so we're very good at communicating, great. Things that women are so good at, right? Communicating or like being emotionally aware, right? Things that are unconventional in other group structures that allow us to keep tabs on each other and keep tabs on our organization.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Yeah, I think those soft skills really, really are critical in the nonprofit space and advocacy work because not just with needing to interact with people who are needing help, but for each other, especially, you know, you mentioned the showing up, I think. For organizations where that's not the person's full-time job, right? This is like a side project or something they're just really passionate about, or they or they just volunteer with the organization, you have to have a lot of emotional stamina to be able to maintain your kind of full-time life within this other side that really matters to you, especially if you're running the organization or you work in it. I think that having the right group and the right team is really important. And like you said, I think whether it's like they're invested in a certain part of it, whether it's Southeast Texas or its environment or whatever, I think as long as the bones are there, the people are passionate, they're invested, but they know how to take care of themselves. That's when kind of the real work can get pulled off.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Yeah, that's a great point. I think another thing that I've learned is like I did talk about oh, it's great to have people that you like on your team and have a Team, but it's also important to like not get your feelings hurt. Yeah. Or if people don't want to be on your team, right? Or like it's someone you really love. And I think that's something I've had to learn is like just to not get my feelings hurt so much. Like you kind of take everything personally, but it's good to not for a second. And then the other thing, you know, emotional stamina is really important. And that's an enduring process that I'm still having to work on.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

I think like that's a huge reason why I'm shifting season two to be about women working on the front lines of advocacy and activism, is because I think people really admire those who are doing that work and they themselves feel exhausted just watching everything on their phone or looking at the news or listening to NPR, tell them what's going on. But a lot of people, I think, don't think about the emotional toll that it takes on the people and the women who are on the front lines trying to make change happen. It's exhausting for all the reasons we've touched on, not just dealing with all the political figureheads or dealing with the massive corporations that will always have more resources than you, trying to get through to your communities and make them care. But just like the daily grind of all of it. And especially, I imagine, and such a huge issue, but an issue like climate justice, where as we've talked about, it gets kind of swept under the rug all the time. And I imagine pouring your whole like heart, body, mind, soul into something you are so passionate about and is so necessary, but that is for the most people not important, has to be so exhausting. And that emotional stamina really has to come through.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

You really got me in my heart there.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Yeah. I feeling really seen right now, maybe too seen. Sorry. No, it's good.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

I want people to hear it. And that was my whole goal for season two was I want people to, yes, hear about the organizations and the women doing great work, hear about what's actually going on in those subject matters or those social change issues, right? Like what's actually happening with environmental justice or immigration or whatever. But even just as important, what is going on for the women who are doing the work? How are they still managing to show up every day?

SPEAKER_01 46:20

You know, that's actually so brilliant because that's another area where there's just no dialogue, or at least in my circles, right? It's not the dialogue. I have, you know, I have been at a point where so many times, right, where I'm like, I just like I'm so mad at myself because like I feel like a failure, right? Like this is something I say a lot. I'm like, I'm such a failure. Like, I didn't get anything done. I accomplished nothing. And then recently someone sent me the like, you know what's bad whenever someone sends you, it was like Teddy Roosevelt's Man in the arena speech. Have you heard this?

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Yeah, I have. I know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Yeah, and it's something like it's so easy to like tear down the man who's in the arena, but it's a lot harder to be the man in the arena. And I was like, okay, I was like, word, word. I'm a man in the arena. And that's how I feel. And it is also interesting, like, I didn't know these terms like fighting the good fight, actually, before getting to climate justice. And it would be interesting because, like, I think this is also a term that's really used among men, maybe, because like I would get this like an external observation from like guys, right? Especially like guys my age, right? They would say these terms like, oh, you're fighting the good fight, and then they would not, right? They'd go work for Exxon. And it'd be like, okay. And then I had to like look at the definition of fighting the good fight. It was like, oh, you're doing something good, right? But then it'd be like, oh, it's interesting that they see me fighting the good fight, but then they're also actively working against it, but also do they support me? So that's been another like question I have.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Yeah, I imagine too, like whenever I talk about my activism with people, and I'll kind of get that same sort of apathetic response where it's like, oh, you're so brave. Oh, that's so noble. But then like they'll just continue on, like not doing it. And I think a lot of people do see the value in it, but I think a lot of people are terrified to do that kind of work because it's not easy. You're in the mud, you're dealing with so much struggle that it's like, I'd rather find the people who are doing it and donate to them or volunteer for them, right? Than be in the weeds. And I think, at least in my own experience, I think people really admire it for the most part. But I think they're like, ugh, you know, like I couldn't do it. Yeah. I couldn't do it. Yeah, it couldn't be me. And that's why I wanted to highlight it. Cause I'm like, okay, but there are people doing it. And that reason that you're not doing it, they likely have that reason too in the back of their head, but they still have to keep showing up because if they don't, they know that nobody else will.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Absolutely. Also, very to the point as well. You know, I'm afraid every day. Afraid every day, all the time. And, you know, there are figures that I think about a lot. Like, one of them is Karen Silkwood. Do you know who Karen Silkwood is by any chance? So she was actually the star of like an Oscar-winning film in the 80s or 90s, starring like Cher and Meryl Streep. And you have me at Cher. It's a great film that somehow like got lost in the generational transition at some point, but it's called Silkwood. And it's based on this woman named Karen Silquid.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

I'm writing that down.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Yeah, you're gonna love it for the most part, I think. So I first encountered Karen Silkwood at the Museum of the Gulf Coast, which is in Port Arthur, Texas. It's kind of like the history museum in this area. And there's like this poster in one of the archive areas, and it's like, who killed Karen Silkwood? Right? It's very provocative, right? And so I was like, who's Karen Silkwood? And she was a woman who was actually also from Southeast Texas, and she moved to Oklahoma and worked for, I don't want to mistake the company, I can't remember exactly the company name where I think I do, but I don't want to accidentally know. But she was working for like a nuclear facility working on nuclear reactors or something, but like small-scale ones, I think. And she reported unsafe work conditions and then was the head of like their union and then was slowly poisoned, like poisoned, and then like when she was going to talk to some kind of reporter, maybe it was like the New York Times or something, she was in a car accident. That was kind of suspicious. And so, like, I think about figures like this a lot, and I think if you talk to most people in the environment space, they will talk about feeling afraid, whether it's like direct threats from people or companies or governments. I think that's a really common thing. And it's something that I again like my naivety, it's both a blessing and a curse, I think, because I went into this, and even my memory will be like, I forget that people hate climate activists, right? I forget that people actually hate me in a lot of ways because I'm like, everybody wants to love each other. So I am afraid every day. I can't remember the original concept, but that is something that I definitely fear or feel in terms of like an emotional toll.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Yeah, I can imagine. You know, I think too, like we talked about like kind of the difference and approach from you guys being more like the optimistic, maybe versus a more militant style. I would imagine, especially in today's climate, culture, society, that the optimistic route is actually the harder route because you're up against not only your own doubts and insecurities, but also the general public who is just very unhappy and unimpressed with the way things are going for whatever reason, right, in their lives. And to try to present them with optimism or to have an optimistic approach with how you talk to them, I can see a lot of people being like, miss me with that. Like, I am good. But I think it's important for people to experience that optimism because for those who are more critically aware of actual climate change issues that are facing them and their communities, they desperately need it. And then even the people who aren't as clear and aware of what's going on around them in their environment, I think they need to know that, like if you're coming to them saying, hey, this is something you need to care about, but they're only hearing the negatives, I can see someone who's already struggling in their life to get by being like, Well, this doesn't sound very uh appealing, you know, to get involved in. Like I'm already having to care about this and that and the other thing, like, why should I care? And I think having a more hopeful, optimistic approach can help people understand that there is actually something that we're working towards that has hope at the end of the road.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Yeah, you've really caught on to it as well, which is we all need hope. And there's the famous story of like Pandora's box, right? Which is that once the box was opened, it was filled with like misery and war and terror and strife. But at the bottom of the box, there is hope. And it's like the consolation for humanity in a lot of ways. And that is to say, something that I say a lot with our organization is like it's supposed to be fun, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

Or that's just for our organization, right? Like most climate work is not fun, and we don't want to waste our time living in not fun, right? So that's an another part of it, is just kind of like, what do we like? Like, not every approach to activism has to be angry, right? And that doesn't mean like we're not angry, like we feel anger and we love anger as an emotion and we love sadness as an emotion, but we want to enjoy ourselves, right? And that's why we have like cute colored shirts, it's why we prioritize stickers, it's why we love to engage with other organizations, right? Because it's not just about the destination, right? It's about the journey as well. So we want to have a fun journey, right? We want snacks for the ride, we want good music. That's just how we want to live.

Concrete Ways To Help Today

SPEAKER_00 53:48

Yeah, and I think that helps make it more accessible for people, which is helpful. Yeah, and alleviate the mental health strain. Yeah, totally. Okay, my final question for people listening: what is one tangible thing they can do to support climate justice?

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Absolutely. So I'm gonna answer in terms of our organization, right? To support Climate Justice Texas, again, we would love to have you sign up for a newsletter on our website, which is www.climatejusticetexas.org. Sign up for our newsletter, please. Follow us on any platform you want. We have them all. Whether or not we're posting regularly on them remains to be seen, but eventually we will. So we have Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, Blue Sky. So that's a great way to support us. We also are about to officially start selling our merchandise. So by the time you watch this, we are officially selling our merchandise, which you can find again on our website, on the like support us or something tab. We have this shirt that I'm wearing today. Do you mind if I model these things really quickly? Oh, please. Okay, thank you so much for the shameless promotion. It has our whole logo on the back. We also have a long sleeve in black with our logo on the back, which is a barn swallow, and it says keeping the climate cool, which is our slogan. And then we also have an array of stickers for people to purchase. These are keeping the climate cool, and then we have like these cardinal stickers because cardinals are really important, especially in Southeast Texas. The mascot of the local university, Lamar, is the cardinal. So we wanted to pay tribute to that, and then we have our logo stickers people can get. And part of our organization is we want people to belong, right? And we want to foster this sense of like happiness and belonging. And so we feel really cool wearing our shirts also. And then, like, we hope that you might also feel like whether even you're in Texas or not, if you're in like Nevada, right? We want you to still feel like you have a connection to us, being here in the deep south where there's mosquitoes and alligators and petrochemical plants galore. So that's how you can stay connected with us as an organization and stay tuned also for our zine program that will probably open up to a larger audience. And then in terms of, I very much so believe in like a hyper-localized approach as well. So I think the best way, like us, the best way that we've found to go about climate justice or climate justice organizing is to start the conversation, right? If you want to have bigger goals, have those big goals. But they're really hard. And starting the conversation is just as important. And even before starting, I would say maybe observing. Like wherever you are right now, if you're listening to this, observe where you are. Like observe what plants and animals do you see? What do you not see? Do you see wildflowers? Do you see trees, or do you just see developments? You know, do you see highways or do you see forest, right? And then start to ask why. Why, if we don't see like the things that are natural to the landscape, why don't we? And just start to pay attention more. Like you said, if you can do a little research, get played. I think the best way, like doing self-research is really hard and can be very isolating. So I would say just trying to find local community organizations that are doing what you're interested in. I personally have had a lot better results with more locally based organizations than with state or national-based ones because they adhere to what we call like either the nonprofit industrial complex or the greed industrial complex to some extent. So find your local garden club, find your local Audubon, your local bird watchers. Those people are great way to segue into climate justice. That's all I have right now. I think the last time I told you, like a great way, a great thing to do is like plant native plants and also talk to your local state park rangers or like national park rangers because they're just so informed. So I think those are also very great things to do. Native plants.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

That's great. And we will make sure to list all of those ideas.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Yeah, I know that was a lot. Sorry.

Gratitude, Links, And Final Ask

SPEAKER_00 58:02

No, no, no, no. We'll make sure to list all of it with any links that we can provide. I personally am gonna be buying a shirt and sticker right after this interview. Very excited to support you guys and the work you're doing. Thank you so much. I was so excited to have you come on and I really enjoyed our conversation. I know without a doubt that many people around the world will feel very inspired by the work you and your organization are doing, even if it doesn't impact them because they're not in Southeast Texas. Perhaps someone listening, you can try to do the same thing where you live or reach out to them and learn about the work they're doing and how you can implement it in your own community. Or if you're in Texas, Southeast Texas, you have a direct connection to them and can learn about the work they're doing to help your communities be stronger and thrive despite climate change. So yeah, thank you so much, Ariana.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

I also just want to extend a note of gratitude to you really quickly as well, because you know. Yeah, like without you, you know, we just had a talk about how the other speakers that you're probably going to have on this season and whether it's in housing insecurity or immigration or climate justice, these are very disparate fields. And it is important to bring this dialogue together into a cohesive space and to increase this kind of like diversity of thought within, like in collaboration within these kind of fields. So thank you so much for taking the initiative to do that and just for supporting women as well.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

Yeah, I think the most important thing I can do, I actually, you know, I think a lot of people can have a broader look at what activism means, right? I think typically I've looked at my life and career in activism, and I've thought of it as like being on the front lines of protests and volunteering and donating. And I think it can also be putting a light on the people doing that work too, that the work you can't do, and making sure their voices are heard and their stories are being heard all around the world. So yeah, I'm honored to tell your story. Thank you. Thank you. We're honored to have you. All right, guys. As a reminder, you can go to climatejusticetexas.org to see what they are doing. Please go buy some merch and some stickers. They are super cute. I can't wait to get the purple and blue slogan one personally. And we'll see you next time. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to Working Girl. If this conversation resonated with you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with someone who cares about building a more just world. You can learn more about today's guests and find additional resources in the show notes. Until next time, stay curious, stay compassionate, and keep doing the work.