Beyond the Record: Justice, Grace & Starting Over with Sheena Meade

This week on Working Girl, Rachel sits down with Sheena Meade, CEO of The Clean Slate Initiative, for a powerful conversation about second chances, systemic barriers, and what it really means to move forward after a criminal record.

Sheena shares her own deeply personal experience navigating the justice system, why automated record sealing matters, and how outdated laws continue to impact millions of people long after a sentence ends. Together, they unpack the emotional weight of stigma, the realities women face after incarceration, and why this work is about far more than policy.

They also discuss burnout, empathy, motherhood, community care, and how to stay engaged in a world that often feels overwhelming.

Under Sheena’s leadership, The Clean Slate Initiative has helped pass clean slate legislation in 14 states and Washington, D.C., opening pathways to housing, employment, education, and dignity for millions of Americans.

This episode is a reminder that people are more than the worst thing they’ve ever done and that second chances should not be a privilege.

Listen now and subscribe.

Check out the show notes for ways to get involved, learn more, and support the work.

Transcript

Welcome And Why This Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Working Girl, the podcast where we pull back the curtain on the real work of building a more just world. I'm your host, Rachel Mpala. Each episode, I sit down with women who are on the front lines of change, organizing, advocating, healing, and challenging the systems that shape our lives. Together we talk honestly about the victories, the setbacks, and the deeply human stories behind the fight for justice. Because in a world where change can feel painfully slow, these are the women who refuse to give up. Welcome to today's episode. This is going to be such a fascinating conversation. I am joined today by Sheena Mead, CEO of the Clean Slate Initiative, who is leading a groundbreaking bipartisan effort to automate the sealing of eligible arrest and conviction records across the country. Under her leadership, CSI has helped pass legislation in 13 states and Washington, D.C., opening the door for more than 18 million people to move forward with their lives. She's a nationally recognized leader. She's taken the stage at TED, South by Southwest, and the Milken Institute, and her work has been featured everywhere from Forbes to CNN. Before CSI, she played a pivotal role in restoring voting rights to 1.4 million Floridians through Amendment 4. She's collaborated with cultural icons, policymakers, and advocates alike, all while staying grounded in her role as a wife, mother of five, and community leader. Despite this extraordinary list of accomplishments, if you ask her what drives her, she'll tell you simply, I'm just Sheena. Which I love because this is going to be a very casual conversation. And I want to get the real deal, the truth. And I'm so excited to dive in. Welcome, Sheena. Thank you, Rachel.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

I'm really excited to be here. And yeah, I only think I know how to do is get the real deal. And actually, speaking of the real deal, since the last time we talked, actually, it's 14 states that have been passed. And so I'm so excited that Missouri recently passed legislation. I know we'll get more into it a little bit later, but looking forward to the governor hopefully signing this into legislation, into act.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Wow. Okay, that's amazing. That is so exciting. I love that. For listeners who may not be familiar with your work yet, or as I read your intro, were like, what does this mean? Can you explain what the Clean Slate Initiative actually is and what automated record sealing really

What Clean Slate Automation Actually Is

SPEAKER_00 2:36

means?

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yes, so the Clean Slate Initiative, we're bipartisan, and you know, I'm just gonna break it down like folks just don't know. Bipartisan organization, meaning we work with people across all political persuasions, no matter which of political preferences. We're a national organization that's focused on automatic record clearance. So in the country, we have a problem, Rachel. There's 70 to 100 million people, one in three adults, that have an arrest or conviction on the record. That's a lot of your listeners. That's a lot of people in this podcast today. And if folks just take a moment, if they're like, oh no, I don't know anybody. You may do know somebody. Maybe they just have not highlighted that they might have a blemished past. But when you have a record, it's harder to get access to opportunities like jobs, housing, education. Um, there's so many statistics that we'll get into in this conversation about that. But the thing that actually gives me kind of heartburn is that out of the 7,200 million people who have a record, 30 million people are eligible to get their record cleared today because they remain crime-free. They're eligible based off their offense, and their state law says that. The problem is it's just it's crazy. It's bureaucratic, it's a lot of red tape, you might need an attorney, a lot of lawyer language, I like to call it, that helped makes it hard for someone to navigate it. So with the clean slate, that we have automated that process. And I tell people to think about the credit report. Everyone kind of knows. I don't know, we don't get taught this. It's just like family legend, it's like after seven years, that thing will drop off your credit no matter what. Because that's what the law says that after seven years, you are no longer responsible for that debt. It comes off. And so that's kind of essentially what the Clean Slate Initiative is doing. It's saying, once you remain crime-free, once you're made eligible, that after a certain amount of time, your record will automatically be cleared for people who have eligible offenses.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

And I'm glad you also touched on the bipartisan part because I think that a lot of people assume that it's just a certain party that's trying to get work done or that really cares, but maybe they forget that this is a very large country. We need a lot of people and support for these issues to actually have any change or progress happen. And it's really important for organizations like yours to remain bipartisan, to be speaking to both parties, all the people that are outliers from those parties. Because while it may feel very divisive, technically we need everyone to make real change happen.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Maybe I need to figure out. Maybe it was on the Rachel show I figured out that we don't say bipartisan, we get something else. Because, you know, just in a few days, I'm keynote at the Libertarian Convention, right? And I'm not the two major parties, and there are people, again, across all political persuasions who understand that second chances are something that's a foundation of our like American like history. So, but yeah, it takes all of us. And this issue is not political. And I think this is one that continues to go above that political frame where we're not making it political, it's people over politics. And when it's impacting one out of three people, it is impacting people, no matter your political persuasion.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Absolutely. So

Sheena’s Story And The Turning Point

SPEAKER_00 5:44

I know you've described this work as deeply personal. What first pulled you into this advocacy and the social justice work that you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Yeah. Well, I grew up in a very much social justice-minded family. I grew up with my mother who's a union worker. She was a Duzpan New Jersey state worker who worked at a psychiatric hospital. And she really instilled the points of working families and making sure that people have access to, you know, benefits and all the things. I tell people, my family field trips were like union conferences. And like my mom taking me out out of school wasn't to go to the ice cream shop, it was to pick it around like the state house on like workers' rights. So this was something that was ingrained in me early on. So I grew up in a very much social justice-minded family and household. And then in my younger, like teenage years, you know, my sister did a lot of uh advocacy on voter rights, and I engaged with an organization called Black Youth Vote, where you know, getting the youth out to vote, and that was where I kind of engaged hip-hop artists around and people, hip-hop and culture into us going to the polls. And then personally, you know, I my first state state job uh was working at a prison, uh, a maximum security prison. And I always tell people I didn't understand then, like, why did I land this job? I feel like everything is for purpose, but I really got to understand not just how the incarceral system worked from the inside, but I saw the impact of when someone was not able to move on from the outside. I remember working and I worked in the classification department, and I remember one of our orderlies, that's what we call them, that's someone who's incarcerated, who gets builds the trust, who is allowed to like work with the staff, right? And so you get to work with the staff in projects and stuff. And we had an orderly who was so excited and will count down a days, will come down machine and I got two more months, one more month, and talk about all the aspirations that he had when he got home. And he got released, and I remember telling him good luck. And his experience wasn't one that ended well. And I remember a few months later, someone came back and like dropped a newspaper on my desk and showing where he had died. And what it was at that time, he recidivated, meaning he went back to a life to you know, he he tried to steal something out of a store that led to him losing his life. And I didn't understand him, but I was remembering Rachel that moment, I was like, but he was so encouraged to do all the things, to get a house, to get a job, to get married. Like, he didn't go home saying, I want to come back here. He his his his last thing was like, I want to do better. I understand that a little bit better when 2004, when myself, when I was just trying to make ends to meet, trying to feed my children, I had a check that bounced. The check was $87.26. It bounced and it got returned, and then in this the Florida law, a check on the during that time, a check on their $150 was a crime. And I had two cops that arrest me in front of my four kids at that time for that offense. And at that time I thought my sentence was over, it was done, I went to court, I paid the bond, the bell, and all the things, and I thought I could move on until I tried to apply for different homes or try to apply for a job or try to go on a field trip that I realized that I was banned. And so I understand how the system wasn't kind of like wasn't set up that way to welcome me back into what we say, into society, even though I didn't do incarcerated at the time, but I had an arrest or conviction on my record. So I can only imagine what it was for this young man that I that comes back to memory when you ask me that. So it is personal, it's deeply personal in my experiences, um, whether it's family members or my community or even myself.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah, it's really heartbreaking. I've I've known people who were incarcerated and some who were very motivated to change their life when they came out, some not so much. And either way, it just seemed like the system was built against them, you know, with all of the requirements and the limitations and all the things that they have to live up to will set anyone up to fail in that position. I think so many people like to sit on their high horse and think like that would never be me, or I would never do this or that. And they don't realize that a lot of these systems that they never think about are actively holding people back and making their lives so much harder from being able to move forward and do something with their life that they aspire to.

The Long Shadow Of Background Checks

SPEAKER_00 10:21

So you talked a little bit about this in your story and in your own personal background. I I feel like when people hear criminal record, they just stop thinking beyond that phrase, right? They're like, ugh, you know. And I would love to hear a little more from you on what you think the invisible ways are that a record will continue to impact someone's life long after their sentence.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

The thing that impacts someone who has uh arrest or conviction on the records or have uh, you know, been in touch with the legal system, are things like just engaging with your family. Like one out of two children have a parent who has an arrest or conviction in the United States. One out of two. And then we start looking at our education system when we think about the parents who feel like they're not engaged in a child's education, but there are people who have been never invited, they've been locked out. We have um it's hard to get access to employment or housing or universities because over 90% of university, uh 90% of landlords, over 90% of employers use background checks to screen out people, and over 74% of colleges and universities. So you hear a lot of people say, well, if this person has a record, they should pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get back to work. They should find housing for their families, but not realizing the reality of it is that people are blocked out. And so there is a lot of reality to having. I mean, it's the stigma, the emotional, mental burden of knowing that you can walk into a room and someone is defining you by something, your worst mistake you made in your past, but not who you are presently. And if like people just think about do you want to be defined by your worst moment or a mistake that you made? Like, that is what having a record is like. And I think that's what we're trying to change. We're not just changing policy, we're changing narratives how people talk about people with records as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, it's like the ultimate scarlet letter that you have to wear around every day. What do you think surprises people the most when they hear how difficult it is to move forward after a criminal record?

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Well, people most surprised. I mean, when I worked on that work on Amendment 4, people could not believe. I think that's why we got such overwhelming support. Over five million people voted yes on four, because when you educate someone about it, and I think even now when we educate people around clean slate, people are like, wait, yo, why are you still being judged by something that happened 10, 7, 5 years ago? They think that's they just can't unimaginable. People think like, what does voting have to do with you? A mistake you've made in the past, or why are you still being barred from housing? I think that's the thing. Over 42,000 occupational licenses and certifications are banned from people who have an arrest or conviction. So let me just break it down to you, Rachel. Your hair looks great today on this call. In the places like Oklahoma, I think they recently changed the law. But to have a hair washing license, because you need to have a license to wash hair in cosmetology. There was a moment where you were banned from getting that license if you had a record. You had to go through a lot of hoops. These are the same jobs, though, that folks who are incarcerated are doing while they're incarcerated and getting time, gain time and all the things. But like stuff like that, you would think like this is not something that we should be holding people back from like living their dreams of being a cosmetologist or a barber, but these types of licenses. If you had a conviction, maybe you had a felony conviction, which in Florida, if you catch a lobster the wrong size, uh fish and wildlife is a felony offense. You don't throw it back. That could ban you from getting a license to drive a truck. Like, you know, so so many like other implications, like outdated laws that really don't apply today. So I think these are the things that surprise people the most. Another thing that's probably the most shocking recently, we have some research is over over $420 billion of lost wages and income are lost every year. That's $1.2 billion a day that are lost for people who have arrest or convictions on the record from our economy. So that is like when I think about that number, like we're always we're here. A lot of the stuff we're talking about is better schools, better education, better parks, better opportunities, better tax base. We're leaving out a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Yeah, and I mean, like you touched on, there's so much that people are trying to do to just get their lives together, take care of their families, their kids, their parents, partners, whoever. There's so much to do. There's so much at stake, especially in this society, in this economy. I imagine that's exactly why you guys fight so hard for the record ceiling to be automated versus putting that burden on the people themselves, because people are just trying to get their lives going and keep their head above water, and then they've got to worry about this whole other process that will be really beneficial to them, but I think that probably average person doesn't realize has a lot to it.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yes, less than 10% of the people that are eligible actually initiate to get their record cleared. And then one thing is like, you know, these are folks who I just talked about have all these barriers faced against them. They're not thinking, like, oh, I gotta go get my record clear until something major may come right in front of them. And then like, you're only able to get this opportunity if you had a clear record. I'm sorry, your record's going back. And it's sometimes like punk people because for the most part, people like, you know, if they paid their debt to society, if they paid their fines and fees back, if they've done the time, they're like, why is this thing still following me?

SPEAKER_00 15:44

I truly can't imagine. Life is hard enough. We're all just trying to get by, and you make a mistake and suddenly it's the scarlet letter on your chest. It's what makes me so grateful for organizations like yours that are trying to help people not only educate them on what their rights are and what the possibilities are, but also in helping them do it. I know certainly people in my life and past would have greatly benefited from your organization over the years.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

And they can still benefit, Rachel. Like it's happening. We've passed it in 14 states in DC. A lot of those states are going into implementation. Maybe some of your loved ones, some of your friends or colleagues that you know actually live in one of those states, they're able to go to our website, cleanslateinitiative.org, and check it out. But we I have people that I meet every day who's like, you know, I wish I had this when I was like, you may be impacted by this. And so we're trying to work on how we actually notify people around you may be eligible, you may have a clean record now. You don't have to live your life as you are still living with this scarlet shame, you know, scarlet letter of shame around your neck.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yeah. Yeah.

Why Women Feel These Barriers Differently

SPEAKER_00 16:50

I'm curious. You know, this podcast is about women, audiences, primarily women. How does this issue affect women specifically and especially women of color?

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, first of all, I appreciate you lifting up women because I think sometimes when we talk about the system of just as impact the folks, we automatically go to men. Over 18 million women have a record nationwide. Many of the women are involved, kind of like my story, could be poverty, it could be survival abuse, addiction, unstable circumstances. And then when it comes to black women, I think, you know, disproportionately black people are impacted by the system. Um, and so there may be a lot higher rates there. I don't have numbers on that, but there's a lot of times sometimes in our communities where the woman could be the head of the household uh for many different reasons, and it's also a monopoly effect on the families and stuff like that. So this doesn't just impact one person, it could impact generations, it can impact families, you know. But yeah, it does impact women, and I think sometimes because of the misconception and like some of the roles that women play historically, they're left out in some of the positions, like you know, when you think about the healthcare system, where there's eight home health aids, CNA, nursing, these are pathways that you see women take. And in many states, there are barriers for folks to get these types of positions because of a pastor eviction that may not have anything to do with the role that you're trying to take on, right? And I just wanted for your listeners to understand like there's so many crazy laws that allow you to get an erection or even a felony case. In Florida, if you drove on a suspended license more than once, you could become a habitual offender dependent on, and now you have a felony. Now, if I want to be a healthcare worker and I'm not driving my patient, but I'm working in a facility, that felony could keep me from getting a position. You understand what I'm saying? So, yeah, I think that is one of the issues, you know, um, being absent from, you know, as women, I think we in we try to engage more in our kids' education system. We want to be there at all the PTAs and all the things. And most recently, I had a cousin who record from years ago crept up on her. Went to my goddaughter, wanted to go to her my goddaughter's kindergarten, like it was like a graduation or something like that. She's been involved, but now they had to fill out a form. She didn't want to lie. She was like, Oh, yeah, I had a rest, and she's thinking this thing's 20 years ago. Her child is five. And it was like, Oh, I'm so sorry. We need you to like fill out this paperwork and maybe go through HR. And she is a nurse, she is a professional. This old record propped up on her, and when she was digging through it, she was like, Sheena, the reason why it's overwhelming me so much, this was a case that was dismissed. And it was like I was a victim of a crime then, right? I was defending myself. This case got dismissed because of me defending myself, so it's being re-traumatized sometimes by a trauma of our case and all the things. Yeah, so I think we don't always have the easy pathway, especially black women, to redemption the way most folks do when we're trying to redeem ourself, you know, publicly.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Yeah, I get that.

How She Builds Community For Women

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Hearing you talk about women, obviously you care a great deal about supporting women in all areas of your life. And I'm curious what that looks like in practice for you, even beyond clean slate.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

I love women. We just some badasses. We take a lot, we give a lot, but we produce so much. I mean, we produce life, we produce babies, you know, we produce milk. I mean, come on, like we're always giving. And I just believe like when women are able to pour into each other, we're just so much stronger. I think about the women who poured into me, who poured into me when nothing in my future felt like I was gonna be a leader of a movement, but they saw something greater in me. And I think that's the beautiful beautiful thing about women. We can see, we could we could see the greater in somebody, right? We can see where someone's going. And so I think what I've done, I've tried to create spaces for other women for us to come together. I'm always trying to create space um for women at a table, other leaders. To be honest, the majority of my team are women. Um, I'm not biased, but most of my team are women. My leadership team is fully women right now. And my outside life, though, I also have an organization called Women and Girls of Excellence. I named it after my daughter Excellence, and I have some young women that are from Ghana, that live in Cape Coast, that I support going to schools for the education, particularly focused on teen mothers because I was a teen mother. I was blessed enough to have the resources and support to continue school, to continue my education. I had a village around me, and I'm like, how can I pay that forward to create a village around another woman so they could do the same thing? And so right now I have about nine girls who I send a school in Ghana. I'm half of them on their way to a university now, and I have young mothers that I I support them going to school and I support their children going to daycare so they're able to go to school. I've done that, I put on women retreats. You know, I always say that I believe if we want women to show up in this space, civically engaged, getting out there, that they have to go through their own personal healing first. And so I've created women's retreats like that as well. Um Always willing to share my stories, and my stories go deeper than probably what we'll go into today. But I understand that the pain points that I've endured in my life was for a purpose. And I hope that the sharing of what I call my testimony and my endurance and perseverance will hopefully help someone not to go on the same pathway, or if they already got a similar path, that they will find hope knowing that you could come out of this on the other end just as bright. So yeah, so I appreciate that question because that is where my heartbeat of my work is at. Clean Slate is is what I love as well. Love really centering women and and children is was speaks to my heart.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yeah, I mean, women are the root of literally all life, all things, in my opinion. I love how much you are supporting and uplifting women. I, you know, myself had a really traumatic upbringing and background, and I know when I was going through it, the things that really helped motivate me or see the light at the end of the tunnel was seeing women who had had similar struggles, who had been in poverty and were able to make something of themselves. You know, those like random pep talks from people who didn't have any clue what it was like were always really annoying. You know, I think young girls need to see women who are thriving and just doing amazing and even their struggles, you know, to see that it's all possible.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

My life experiences allows me to relate to people in all different levels. Like I've I've couch surfed, I've been unhoused with my children, living with other people. I've been on Section 8. I've also lived in a big house since they had to pay a lot of big property taxes too. So I know other things. I've known how I felt to be denied rental applications or biases because I have children. I'm a single like I've I lived so many different lived experiences, and you know, when you're going through it, Rachel, you're like, why the hell am I going through this? But now I understand why it's for a greater need, and I'm I'm okay that I was a person picked to do that now. And I I live in my truth. But yeah, like, you know, you can't come talk to me about being broke if you've never been broke, you know, or you you can't tell someone who has a record, like just pull yourself up when I know when I personally know all the barriers. Rather, like, how can I support you navigating through this system? Uh and that's why I believe that lived experience and advocacy, no matter what part of advocacy it is, is so important. Listening to the people closest to the pain is closest to the solution. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah.

Protecting Your Heart In Justice Work

SPEAKER_00 24:28

And you know, I will say from personal experience, I know that when you do carry those lived experiences in that background, it can make doing the work in advocacy in any subject matter that much heavier, right? Because you see people in pain, you see people struggling or suffering, and you really feel for them. It's not just a sympathy, it's a true empathy because you can comprehend what they're going through. I want to know how you protect your kind of sense of self while constantly having to carry that emotional weight.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah, that's a great question. How do I protect self and care for self? It's not easy. I think, you know, I don't want to get anywhere in line, like, oh, I do all these things. It is a lot of weight, especially when in leadership, holding on to the folks who are waiting for their records to be cleared, and they know that you are the one leading this movement and like, where am I at? Or you hear the stories of people who are like, it's hard for me to find a job, to feed my family. Like, I get emails constantly, Rachel. I I got a I remember this one email I got from this young lady, and I try to respond to everybody. And if I can't help, at least give a glimmer of hope and praying for you or connect you with someone. But a woman who reached out to me, it was about two years ago, her daughter was graduating from the military. And you know, at the military base, you have to get tapped out. I don't know why, I don't want to get in trouble with the army folks about this, but you have or the military view, but you had to be tapped out by a loved one before you could, I guess, come off the line. And she said, Can you please help me? My daughter is graduating in a couple of weeks, and I've talked to you're my last glimmer of hope on this. Like you're the last person I'm reaching out to. Can you please reach out to the military base? Can you reach out to somebody? They're saying a record that my record from 17 years ago is prohibiting me from coming on base. My daughter should not have to pay for my record. My daughter should not have to pay for my mistake. I am not who I was 17 years ago. I'm so proud of my daughter that she's she's serving in the military. She's gonna serve our country. And I don't want her to be alone. There's nobody else to tap her out. I just want to be able to like that was an emotional pull because now I got the weight of how can I make this happen for this woman? I'm her last cryout. And so, you know, it's not always easy. I find myself being grounded in family, friends. It's just as a mom and a woman. Let me just take the leadership out of it. We gotta find time for ourselves. I did a solo trip a few months ago for the first time. No kids, no husband, no girlfriends, nobody but me, and just took care of myself. And I went away. And I just sat by the beach and became one with myself. I cried, I laughed. They probably thought I was crazy from the beach, but it was like something I just needed to just reground like what I want for the next, whereas the next few weeks, the next year, who is Sheena outside of the leadership head? Who is Sheena outside of being a mom and a wife? Who am I like trying to reground myself in that? But I I think trying to find time is self, which is hard, but it is also family. I have a new grandbaby now, his name is Kasai, and I find so much joy. Matter of fact, I pulled over on the side of the road yesterday because I heard he was crawling. I parked my car and FaceTime him so I can see if he could crawl to the phone. So I found my joy in in family. That's how I find self.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Yeah, it's important to pour back into yourself because you can only give so much of yourself, no matter how passionate you are about your cause or the people you're helping. And like I had mentioned earlier, it's even harder when you can relate to people's struggles and when people are feeling like they've been robbed of their dignity. You want to just help everyone. And it's really good to hear that you're also taking care of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

That's right. Self-care. I believe in self-care. If nothing else, I'm gonna have these nails and these brows done just because everything else is looking crazy. And I do try to do my facials and take care of the skin and drink my water, but uh trying to take care of self is important. Like we I tell people you can't put the oxygen, like they always say, put the oxygen masks on yourself before you can save anybody else. And I think a lot of times, especially in leadership, we try to put oxygen masks on everybody and we're running out of breath. And I had to learn the hard way that way. So I try to say, I'm not any good if I'm depleted. I cannot pour into people if I have nothing in my cup.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Absolutely.

Staying Engaged When The World Is Loud

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Let's switch gears a little bit. I know we've talked off this recording about kind of the political and social climate that's going on and how divisive everything is. Why do you think so many people emotionally disengage when the world feels really overwhelming?

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Why do we engage when we overwhelmed anyway? I think just a natural mechanism of being human. Like we just want to like hide and just like I hope it goes past, you know? It makes me think of storms. When it's a thunderstorm, what do we do? At least what I do. Cuddle up in a blanket, hoping, like, let's just settle down till the storm passes, right? Like, why be up all frantic every time the lightning strikes or the thunder rumbles? Like, just get in a place and cuddle up. Yeah, I just think that we just disengage, I mean, just out of a moment of omen wellness or just not knowing what to do, or having clarity of what to tackle. Like today, in today's world, things could feel so enormous, and they are. There's a lot of things happening. And that's why I take good kind of little pride in the work that we're doing at Clean Slate, right? We're a focused, one-issue organization, and we're able to continue to just be laser focused on the work of getting impacted people who are who need the record cleared, who need barriers removed and opportunities uh in front of them. I feel like in this work, there could be a lot of noise and a lot of things going around us, but when I think about the work that we're doing at Clean Slate, we can stay focused on that and knowing that we're chipping away little by little at this one piece, our our piece, that could make a difference in this world, in this country.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Yeah, and I think for people listening or just anyone in general who feels overwhelmed by just the sheer amount of struggles that are happening, maybe that is a way that you can kind of get through the overwhelm is finding that one cause that really does mean something to you or to your loved ones and digging into that because you cannot do everything despite how many of us try. And even if you dig into one cause, I like personally, I'll feel like I'm letting everyone else down that I'm not focusing on, but you could also just be helping change one life. And that one life is really valuable.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

And I think in this moment, like we also, when it's so much going on, we take focus on all the noise and the disruption and don't focus on the progress that we're making. Like there's a lot of progress happening in different places, in different verticals within our country and then in our world, but there's so much noise that keeps us distracting from the good, you know, the good that's happening. But I would just say, like, you know, folks should not disengage when things feel hard. It's like having a big disagreement with a loved one or a partner, right? Do you just like disengage and go their way and let them have their bit? Like, no, like in order to get to kind of like you engage, you like you talk through it, you you move through it to get to a place of uh, you know, of progress. Um, and change is not possible unless people engage, right? And so I think having your voice heard, making yourself heard is really important. I always tell people it's better to be at the table than on the menu. And that's why I'm making sure that our conversations heard, you know, the work of Clean Slate is everywhere, and that I pull up a chair to any table that allows me. And sometimes I bring my own table, my own chair. Sometimes I gotta build my own table, but show up, make sure you're not on the menu. That you're at the table.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Did you are you the first person to say that, or is that a famous quote?

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Uh well, I think Shirley Chisholm did something about this and pull up to the table, but I'm gonna add a little Sheen of Razzle Dazzle in there that could be mine. Find out, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

So you talked a bit about being engaged. What about the people who are feeling so completely consumed? How do they stay informed and engaged?

SPEAKER_01 32:27

How do they stay informed and engaged? There's no harm, Rachel. And I'm gonna tell an uncomfortable, an uncomfortable stance that I'm probably gonna make. Talking to people who you usually don't talk to, who you may shy away, you may say, you know what, I'm going into the family dinner with my uncle who don't see have political views the way I see it, or may have a different stance. And actually just hearing each other. Like, can we have a just a dialogue, learn about each other, engage on what other people's worldviews are or why they look at it that way, or like perspective. Perspective matters. And I think it's a way to, when I say a way to engage, understanding where people are coming from about just maybe an issue or a stance. And it's not to get like argumentative or that you need to move your stance, but just understand the way the world is looking at things. I think that's one way to engage. Um, plugging into organizations that are valued aligned with you, things that you cared about. You know, you don't have to do all the research on your own, which people should always research on their own, but you know, being engaged with organizations who could well inform you based on research, based off data, based off facts is very important. Clean Slate does all those things. I can tell you our stuff is research-backed, how are factual. So I think that's important. And yeah, find things that give you joy, stay in in line with things that give you joy that want you to stay engaged. Do not engage in things that's gonna drain you. So be engaged in areas that gives you joy and purpose, or where you feel like you can make an impact in one way or another, but don't engage. I feel like sometimes folks get into these fights where they're so drained out, they're burnt out, and that's we're not gonna get anywhere with people are burnt out. So yeah.

Grace Second Chances And Real Allyship

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Yeah, I think that's all very true. As we come to a close, I would love to hear from you uh what you wish more people understood about justice and grace and second chances.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

That we all want one. We've all asked for a second chance once or probably more than once in our life, whether it was from our loved ones, our kids, our parents, our teachers, our workplace, that second chances just come in different forms, right? I wish more people understood that when we talk about second chances, it's the same chance that we're talking about. I also think that carrying the stories that I can't that we can't tell, there's a million of people who have stories like mine that are just as impacted or have a blemished record from being poor for a system that wasn't necessarily set up for them to be successful, and that this issue is just not about the person, this is about a community of people. If one person is felling behind, our whole community is falling behind. And so we're only as strong as the weakest link. And so those are things that we want to leave people with that, you know, we could be the change. My grandma used to say, charity starts at home. I never knew what my grandma meant by that. She used to say it all the time. Now I understand. Charity starts at home, that means give grace to your family member who might have made mistakes, who need a second chance, the cousin that's up the road that you haven't wrote or haven't talked to, or the cousin that might have had a brush with the system. Like, give charity starts at home before you could go out there advocating for everybody's, learn how to love, embrace, and advocate for the people closest to home first.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

So you've touched on how people can learn from Clean Slate and all of the data and information you guys provide. So I imagine if someone is feeling overwhelmed, I mean, that's where you start. You just go to Clean Slate's website for people who really want to be, this is their cause, right? They they want to get invested. What does meaningful allyship, what would that look like in this space for you?

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Yeah, well, one of you want to like be in a space and volunteer, please reach out to the cleanslateinitiative.org. We have partners across the country in different states, maybe one of your states where we could plug you in because we do work with partners on the ground. And good allyship is like reaching out to us and like, how can I talk about this? We don't want people just talking off the whims off of it. We want you to be able to use informed language on how we talk about this, how we talk about people impact or records, because we know we have research that shows the best way to message this. Just being in good partnership, plugging in, tapping into our resources. We have toolkits on our website, you can reach out to our organization. We would love to plug you in which way we can. If you have your own story to tell, I would love to hear your story. I would love to meet with you. We have a lived experience summit that we host in September with all Justice Impacted folks where we just pour into people. And so, yeah, just plug in. We'll find a way how to get you plugged in.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Awesome.

What’s Next For Clean Slate

SPEAKER_00 37:16

What is next for Clean Slate that you're excited about?

SPEAKER_01 37:19

I'm excited about coming to the South. We have a lot of opportunity to come to the South to do some work. Well, you know, when six years ago, actually, six years ago, today is when I actually started at Clean Slate. So today's my 16th anniversary. And when I started, you know, I came in at that time as a managing director, and this was just a two-year project. And the South was never in the vision. It was like, oh no, we couldn't go down there. Like, that's too hard. But now, six years later, I'm talking about bringing this work to the South. And hopefully, in the next, not only will I be able to get a clean slate, but millions of others in the South will be able to get a clean slate. So I'm excited about that. I'm excited about the work that we're about to like venture off in into the tech world as technology is happening so quickly. Like, how are we not getting left behind in that making record clearance more accessible for people using technology? So I'm excited about that as well. And our narratives change, like how we talk about people and letting people know that their records are clearing. So we got some states that are quickly implementing next year. So I'm excited about that as well.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Well, on behalf of the South, I will happily welcome you. Having grown up in Arkansas and now living in Texas, we definitely need women like you. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

I'll let you know about Arkansas and my team.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Okay, okay, okay. All right. I ask every guest this at the end of each episode: what does hope look like for you right now?

SPEAKER_01 38:37

What hope looks like for me right now is that my beautiful grandson, Kasai, will grow up in a world where second chances rolls off people like a tongue that is not even a you don't have to put extra thought into second chances. Where people understand that if they made a mistake, that it's not a lifetime sentence. That is my hope that my grandson grows up in a world that way, and that this would be something that will feel like dinosaur work to people in my son, my grandson's generation. Like, what do you mean? Like, yeah, we all believe in second chances. That is just the norm. The second chances is the norm for real.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on. I'm really excited for people to hear this.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Thank you for having me, Rachel.

Final Hope And Listener Takeaway

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Thank you for listening to Working Girl. If this conversation resonated with you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with someone who cares about building a more just world. You can learn more about today's guests and find additional resources in the show notes. Until next time, stay curious, stay compassionate, and keep doing the work.