How Moms Demand Action Is Building a Safer Future with Angela Ferrell-Zabala

Gun violence is the leading cause of death for children and teens in America. Yet for many people, the issue can feel overwhelming, political, or impossible to solve.

This week on Working Girl, Rachel sits down with Angela Ferrell-Zabala, the first-ever Executive Director of Moms Demand Action, the nation's largest grassroots movement dedicated to ending gun violence.

Angela shares her journey from lifelong community organizer to leading a movement of more than 11 million supporters across all 50 states. Together, they discuss what effective gun violence prevention actually looks like, why common ground is more achievable than we think, and how everyday people can make a difference in their own communities.

They also explore the emotional reality of advocacy work, the role of joy in sustaining change, and why leadership is often about bringing people together rather than having all the answers.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• What Moms Demand Action does and how the movement has grown nationwide
• Why gun violence prevention is a public health issue
• How secure firearm storage can save lives
• The power of grassroots organizing and community action
• How Angela navigates burnout, grief, and hope while leading a national movement
• Simple ways anyone can get involved, even if they don't see themselves as an activist

Whether you're a parent, community member, advocate, or simply someone looking for a way to help, this conversation offers practical steps and a hopeful path forward.

Listen now and subscribe.

Check out the show notes for ways to get involved, learn more, and support the work.

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Angela

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Working Girl, the podcast where we pull back the curtain on the real work of building a more just world. I'm your host, Rachel and Paula. Each episode, I sit down with women who are on the front lines of change, organizing, advocating, healing, and challenging the systems that shape our lives. Together we talk honestly about the victories, the setbacks, and the deeply human stories behind the fight for justice. Because in a world where change can feel painfully slow, these are the women who refuse to give up. Welcome back to Working Girl. Today I have an incredible guest. One that I have wanted for quite a while. So I'm really glad that we got both the woman and the organization on the pod. Today I am interviewing Angela Pharrell Zabala. She is serving as the first ever executive director of Moms Demand Action. You've probably heard of it. She's responsible for leading and growing the largest grassroots network in the gun violence prevention space. Angela has been with the organization since 2019, leading its movement building work, overseeing grassroots organizing, external, cultural, and corporate engagement, and national partnerships and programming. As a lifelong organizer, Angela is passionate about movement building, uplifting and centering often marginalized voices, and empowering the next generation of leaders. She's a mother of four and a lover of music, art, dance, and theater. A creative like myself. I love that. Welcome, Angela.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Hi, Rachel. So good to be on. And yes, we need that creative energy, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

We do. It's like it's truly the best outlet when things are stressful. It really is.

What Moms Demand Action Does

SPEAKER_00 1:51

So even though I've known of Moms Demand Action for a very long time, for listeners who may not be as familiar, can you tell us about the organization and the work you guys are doing?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Sure. Really happy to do so. So Moms Demand Action over 13 years, it's been around. And this organization actually has all 50 states. We have volunteers in all 50 states. It's over 11 million supporters. And really our mission is to make sure we're educating folks about gun violence prevention and all the ways, just gun violence generally, and all the ways that we can actually address it. We do advocacy. And my role in it is really to make sure that I'm helping to sustain and bring in new energy and broaden our movement because, as you know, this crisis impacts all of us, regardless of where you live, who you are. It's a public health crisis. And so it's my job to make sure that we're keeping that energy moving, that we're keeping that strategy focused on our legislative priorities, our electoral priorities, and also building cultural competency about this issue and how we might be able to change it to make sure that we're keeping our communities safe.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Yeah. And like you said, I think it touches so many different aspects of our society. I think some people probably focus more on schools. Other people think about their communities. It touches every aspect of America these days. I don't know what the count is up to for this far in the year in terms of gun violence, but I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah, more than the days in the calendar, unfortunately. It's one of those things you never get used to.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Well, as I had mentioned, you're the first ever executive director, but let's take it back a

From Introvert To Lifelong Organizer

SPEAKER_00 3:32

little bit. I want to hear more about your story, what first got you into advocacy and community organizing.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yes, you know, it's so interesting. Whenever I get asked this question, is for me, I feel like I was just born this way. But really, I think it goes back to just modeling after my mother and grandmother who did a lot in their communities just to make sure folks were okay. My mom, one of the things she would always tell me is like, we're not okay if everyone else isn't okay. So, right? Like if if someone is suffering across the street, then we there's no way we can just put our heads down at night and act as if nothing is going on. So that spirit of collective responsibility was kind of born into me and and nurtured into me. I was also named after Angela Davis. So I think my mom put that fire in my belly, but that's really where the roots of it came from. I just always felt like a need to stand up for the underdog. And let me just be clear, I am an introvert. I was always kind of that shyer kid. And so to match that fire in my belly with the fact that my voice was squeaking was really not an easy thing. But you know, there were times where I just I'd feel moved to do something or say something, and then I couldn't believe I did it. I'm like, I just did that, I just said that. Yeah, I just think it's always been in me. I just don't like to see suffering. I never like to see it. And so I was always finding myself either trying to balance something or see both sides of something, bring people together, even friends. If there was a disagreement, an argument, I wanted to be the one to help repair that rupture. So yeah, it's just kind of the way I came to this earth.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah. You know, I find that a lot of people in activism and advocacy are introverts, and you would assume the opposite. Isn't that funny? Yeah, I maybe it's just like because we're so introverted, we have more time to think about all of the uh unfair things happening around us.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

It is. Maybe that's what it is. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Because I remember when I first started getting into activism, my friends were kind of surprised because they were like, but you don't do anything. Like you don't like to go out, you don't like to like talk to people, you don't have a lot of friends. I'm like, I know, but for me it was so different. It was like a different thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

It's different. I think it's also the way you sustain yourself. It's it's like when I think about the role that I play, oftentimes I'm having conversations with folks, meeting people, traveling. And so you have to be on, I have to be ready, I have to receive. And then when you think about the topic that we're talking about, gun violence, it means I'm interacting with survivors and all kinds of folks. So you're absorbing the emotional piece, you're taking it all in. And so when I get home, I like to like just curl up on that nice little comfortable and the and when you have a little L-shaped sofa, that's where I like to be and have my kiddos next to me snuggled and just like either in a book or like a mindless background TV show or just coloring or doing something with the kiddos. So, yeah, that's what my introversion looks like.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah, I know we'll get into it a little bit later, but I can only imagine as an introvert how much harder it is to absorb all of that and fill back into yourself. So I know in researching you that you have actually been across so many issues in your career from reproductive rights to racial justice to civic engagement, now gun violence prevention. I'm thinking maybe it's what you kind of just touched on when it talks you talked about community, but what threads are connecting all of the work for you?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Yeah, I think for me, what I've always, I guess my pie in the sky, I would call it, are that kind of like where my focus has been is that people should be able to thrive. That's it. It's that simple. Should be able to thrive. And so you mean think about all the issues. So many things are related to that. You mentioned reproductive health, rights, and justice. I worked at a large repro rights organization. I also worked and was on boards of reproductive justice organizations. And where I see those intersections is your ability, especially when we think about children. I have four. I'm a mom of four. And part of reproductive justice says the right to have my children grow up in safe places. And so I think that intersects when I think about economic issues or racial justice, all that is like the right to not have to kind of look over your shoulder, worry about your safety, worry about all these things is really important to me. And I think there's those kind of little, those pieces in all of them. And so it's really natural for me. I see things in very intersectional ways. And so this was a very natural landing for me, especially again as a mother of four children, knowing this is a leading cause of death for children in our country. I had to jump into it.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Yeah, I was actually gonna ask, what led to that final push into mom's demand action then?

SPEAKER_01 8:08

When I jumped in, I really thought about all the times I would turn on the news or hear about things happening in my local community. I'm right here in the District of Columbia. Uh, gun violence was so upsetting. I was always kind of shaking my head and say, that's a shame. We need to do more, we need to do more. And then when I started to notice and see survivors of gun violence right here in my community stepping up and doing the work, I said, I've got to do more about this. I have to get off the sidelines. It's not enough to just feel that this doesn't make sense or feel bad or feel scared or all the myriad of feelings you might have related to this issue. But I said, where do I jump in? Where do I join in? And so I think that's what got me really excited about stepping up and working at every town for gun violence and then eventually leading moms to man action. But it was just that that sense that there's something that I can lend to this movement and that I have to, especially being a mom of four kids.

Stepping Into A New Leadership Role

SPEAKER_00 9:04

What was it like stepping into a leadership role that had not existed before?

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Oh my gosh. Like, let me tell you about stepping up into something and really thinking about having imposter syndrome, frankly. It's not the first time I have, but I think part of it is I am a person that is a bit of perfectionist with myself. I also hold this is I take this very seriously. I have a very high standard about how I want to show up in this work. And so it's a big deal. It's a big deal to lead part of a large movement fighting to end gun violence in this country. It's a big deal to stand up alongside survivors of gun violence, put themselves out there every single day to make sure that no other person, no other community has to feel the kind of devastation that they're feeling. And I felt like I took that so seriously that it was a little bit nerve-wracking, frankly. I was overthinking a lot. And then it just occurred to me. I'm a person of deep faith. So I sat with myself, I did a little meditation, a little prayer. And what came to me was like, no one's asking you to do this alone. You're joining people that are already doing this. Your role is to bring everything that you have to this movement to help it. And what I know I have is an ability to help bring people together, an ability to help motivate, inspire, lift up stories, use my voice to make sure folks that would otherwise not have a place or a voice, they have that space. And so then it became more of a mission and a duty than something that I was overthinking. And so I don't do this alone. And that was the reason I could step into this role because I know that I'm doing this in partnership with so many incredible leaders that are getting up every single day to also roll up their sleeves to get to work on this issue.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yeah, it was no longer about you having to figure out the one perfect vision and instead bringing the collective vision together and being the kind of core for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

That's right. Uh, Rachel, I also think oftentimes about past movements in this country, and I just thought, you know, it's this is what happens in my brain. That's why I'm so tired and I'm introvert and I go and sit down because everything is spinning and moving. But I think about times in this country where there were things that we had to overcome or had to fight for when people didn't have rights and access to things, and there was no necessarily a court system fighting for them, there was no policy paper that was written, or even people that were stepping alongside them, but they had to believe in something bigger and greater than that moment, and they had to like use everything they had. And so I also kind of look back to that and say, there have been places and times in this country where we had to jump over mountains, literally, to achieve something so folks could, like I said, thrive, survive, live. And so who am I to overthink it when there's so many people have done bigger things? And so I think that really helps me, just the motivation of thinking about all the folks that have come before me.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Yeah, I can imagine.

Movement Building At Massive Scale

SPEAKER_00 12:08

So you take that motivation and now you're meant to be building this community and keeping people engaged at such a large scale. I mean, you mentioned having people in every single state, but how do you uh manage that scale of the people you need to build that community for and keep them engaged?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

I think the most important thing that I do in this role to keep everything, keep myself kind of grounded, but also keep the movement so authentic is that it's you don't look at it as managing all of this. It's one story, one person at a time. If I see this as a collection of individuals, individual survivors, individual students, individual community leaders, individual lawmakers, individual, then it helps me to see person to person. Because I also think that's the way that we effectively engage each other, especially if we may not be on the same page about this issue, or we may not understand it, or we're not joiners of things. Not everybody raises their hand to join a thing. They might be balancing a hundred other things at home, and it's like, how do I even become what am I doing? I just I'm trying to put food on the table or get my kids a soccer practice. I totally understand what that's like. And so I think it's about looking at the individuals that make up this movement and looking at the people that actually could help to expand it. The more we expand, the more we uncover other ways, other solutions and remedies. And so I think that's how I look at it and that's how I sustain myself because there are so many incredible people that I get to meet every single day that I either hear their story or they, you know, even if we're having a conversation, they don't quite understand what we're doing, we can come to some common ground. I think that is how I manage it. I just remember that we are a collection of individuals, we're a collection of parents, we're a collection of students. Where, and if you look at it from that, there's no other way to do this but to kind of really make sure I'm grounded with everyone and make sure that I'm appreciating what everyone is bringing to this movement. I think that's what makes it work for me. If I was looking at managing a big thing, I think I would be a little more distant from it, right? I think this makes me feel like I'm in it, I'm part of it because I am. Then I don't forget why I'm here and I get up every day with that same mission in mind just because of all the folks that are in it with me.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Well, speaking of the people who are in the movement with you, you know, I imagine they all look at you with so much admiration and, you know, aspire to be like your level within a grassroots movement. But what if those grassroots organizer organizers taught you about leadership?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Oh my gosh. You know, the biggest thing is making a way out of no way sometimes. I get to travel to states that are so innovative and ahead of the game on so many ways. You can imagine those states are many of them are some of our bluer states, we tend to call them blue states. And then we have states that might be more challenging. And what is really incredible and what I learned is that it does like there is no stopping. There is no giving up or throwing up your arms and saying this is hard or this is impossible, we're never gonna do it. If we just look at it on paper and we see what's already kind of lined up, like who's in power or these folks don't agree, or this person, then we could really, we might as well give up. But I love that they bring every single thing to it. It doesn't matter. Every single conversation makes a difference, every little moment makes a difference. I think that keeps me moving. Honestly, it's like really impressive to see the work that happens in places that you don't believe we could move the needle, but we've made some really incredible progress. Even in some of the southern states, there have been some laws that we've been able to pass that ban a glock switch, or basically a switch, a conversion device that will take a pistol from its regular operation, operational functions to making it more like a machine gun. And we have southern states that have banned those devices. So it's not impossible to do that in all kinds of ways. So we've had states, health departments that have actually adopted some of our secure storage programming to make sure that every home in within their um kind of region or where they the governance, they're able to get them that information so that they can keep their community safe, their home safe, their community safe, therefore, children safe. So it happens all over. I so I learned that we just got to be creative and we got to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Yeah. Well, speaking of gun violence, let's dive a little more into gun violence prevention.

Why Prevention Is Not Controversial

SPEAKER_00 16:37

I think probably a lot of listeners, a lot of people in this country, we've almost become numb to it. I'm sure that's a challenge you guys often struggle with, is people have become so numb to it because it's so common now. But I think there are still people who really care, right? They don't numb themselves to it. What do you wish people better understood about gun violence in America that makes them should make them want to keep staying engaged and not just sigh and move on?

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Yeah. Well, that's a really good question. Before I get to what people should know, I would just say what I understand about people that may not be jumping in or um think that nothing can be it's just exhausting. People are exhausted. Let's just like pan out. So much is going on. Like just I just said earlier, I can think about myself. Like this morning, I had to get the kids. We were running late, by the way. That's happened sometimes because my youngest wouldn't get out of bed. And then me helping to pack lunches because I'm not always that responsible parent that does things the night before. Like I'm a human being, and sometimes we're tired and we decided we're gonna watch a movie instead of doing this and go to bed late. And so we got up, scrambling, packing lunches, getting everyone dressed, trying to get them to their concert. This is usually what is on people's mind, and there's a bit of inertia, and so they disconnect from like it feels so big. So they disconnect from. And I think when people learn that there is something that they can do about it, then we're we're able to move them on it. So I was talking about why people may not always engage, and it's not because they don't agree. But what I want them to understand about gun violence is it's not controversial of gun violence prevention. It's not something radical. I have the great privilege of traveling all across this country, red states, blue states, purple, all in between, right? And the thing, the common denominator is people do not want this to be the leading cause of death for killed children. They definitely want us to have responsible, common sense policies in place, whether they're parents, our gun owners, our military veterans, our faith leaders, it doesn't matter who I talk to. It's similar. It's not controversial. And so I think if we believe like the talking points or the bumper stickers, we would think that this is something that we can't solve, or that there's either you're either here or you're here. And that's just simply not true. Most people have so many things going on that they can't get into the weeds of a policy. But when I sit down with them and just have a regular human-to-human conversation, then we find out that we have a lot in common. And so I would say don't be afraid to, especially if you want to have conversations with other folks about this, don't be afraid to like sit down with a friend or a neighbor and just ask a simple question. Even here's an opportunity. You have your kids going to a sleepover, a play date, and you would ask that family, is your firearm secured? I want to make sure. And there's an assumption, like this way, we're not saying, Do you have a gun? What are you doing? Because who cares? Are you a gun owner? That's not my point. The point isn't whether or not you're a gun owner. The point is, is it being responsibly carried out? Like, are you storing it securely? So someone that shouldn't have access, like a child, does not have access to it. That opens up so many conversations, right? So I think I would say it's not as difficult as it seems when it comes to the day-to-day person. Really, what we are fighting is lawmakers that sometimes don't have the courage to step up because they're in the pockets or the hands of a gun industry that brings in a lot of money on fear and other things. But the average American is where we are in some way, shape, or form. The polling shows over and over again. They want to figure out a common sense way to make sure that our communities are safe and that people that should not have access to a firearm do not have access to a firearm.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Right. And you mentioned policy. I mean, I think people get so overwhelmed by legislation, right?

Secure Storage Talks With Other Parents

SPEAKER_00 20:30

And to your point, it's not controversial. Other than talking to the people around them, what are some other ways that communities can create safer environments?

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah, I think you can start in many different ways. You can think about your school. What kinds of safety measures do they have at the school? How are they making sure whether it's the drills that your children may go through, whether it's what literature or materials they might hand out to parents around secure stores? There's so many opportunities at that level, whether it's convert having conversations with PTA members or other community members around the school, it they can talk to their pediatrician. I did this actually recently with my kids' pediatrician. I asked her, I said, when you're talking to other parents here, what kinds of information are you giving them about keeping their kids safe? Because I know, and you know this, pediatricians will say, When you have your baby, put them on their back to sleep. Make sure you're covering the outlets, all the things don't they can't have honey or peanut butter or eggs before the age of one, and there needs to be like all this stuff that you get around keeping your kids safe. Do you ask or do you tell people how to securely store a firearm? Like it shouldn't even be a controversial conversation. It's like safety. And so I talked to my pediatrician. She's like, you know, it's interesting. I used to do that a long time ago, but this is great. So there's so many ways that you can do it. And if you don't know where to begin, which is totally normal, you can step in with Mom's Demand Action. We have chat. All over the place, right in your local community, where you can actually join a group and figure out like what it is that you may want to do, what your talent, my expertise, or your interest may be to help to move us when we think about gun violence prevention in this country.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

I love that. I think a lot of people think about it only in terms of their children's health and safety, mostly in terms of what they themselves can just physically do with that child, right? It's not necessarily the external dangers that they may think of until they get to school and the kid is no longer physically in front of them and they can protect them. But there are still so many things. I think, especially me being based in Texas, it's safe to assume most people will have a firearm in their home. You don't even have to ask. I think even just asking those kinds of questions, it really does help open that dialogue so much easier. Like you said, you don't have to quiz people, and if they have one, the important fact is is it secure?

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Is it securely stored? And if you start from that, you're not even asking because then people are on the defense. If you're like, hey, I was, you know, Bobby is going to come over and play today. We're so excited. What can we bring? My kid has food allergies, or does your child, whatever that is, and then is your are your firearms securely stored? I just want to make sure that there's no that simple. And they might say, Oh, we don't have any. Or they might say, Oh, yeah, they are. Great. It's that simple. And you just and you have the conversation in a way that is not controversial. We're not coming to finger wag. Who cares? I have gun owners in my family. That is not the point. The point is that we are all responsible for making sure our children are safe. And we can miss something. We can miss a critical piece if we don't ask, if we're afraid to ask these questions, we have to. We have to start doing it. There's just too many stories about kids that have gained access to a firearm that should not have had one.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Small tangent, but I remember like in middle school, we had an entire display set up for a young boy who had gotten access to his father's gun and he did end up dying. And I remember like the display had been there for so long that the kids didn't pay any mind to it, right? It was just like, oh yeah, that was that kid that died. Looking back, I do wonder, like when the parents saw it, did it ever to sit with them or resonate, you know, and make them wonder about it? Because I was raised in Arkansas. Guns are hugely prevalent because of hunting, especially. And so probably easier than people think to prevent those catastrophes by paying attention to those details and asking those questions.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah. And I think to your point, you know, you really what I found in organizing around this issue is that you've got to give people a place to actually be responsible and to join in on this. And it may not be through Moms of Man Action. I love it if it is, because we are we'd love to have you. But, you know, even if it is just having those simple conversations, even if it's thinking about, oh, here, I'm a firearm owner and I'm gonna make sure my stuff is locked. I've talked to so many military veterans and other folks that are gun owners and know a lot about firearms, and that's one thing that they're serious about. It's like there's no way in the world that my kid or someone else should have access to this. You know, one of the growing things that's happening, Rachel, in this country are like thefts in automobiles because people put them in their glove box and it's not locked up. And then they're found on crime scenes. Those simple things, those simple things, lock it up, would save lives. So it's not, it doesn't even have to start like big policy. It's behavior, right? What we're doing, how we're making sure that it's a privilege to own it. It's then it's a responsibility to also own it. And so I think that's where we have to have those conversations. So people don't think that we have to just start by passing laws. Those are important. But passing laws without behavior change, without cultural change literally doesn't move us as far and as fast and save as many lives.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Yeah.

Resilience Joy And Emotional Weight

SPEAKER_00 26:04

So let's talk a little bit about the survivors and families and even like students and volunteers that have come into your orbit. What have they taught you about resilience in this movement?

SPEAKER_01 26:20

You know, it is absolutely uh, it's sometimes I get choked up thinking about it. I mean, there's so many stories I could tell you, but I think the biggest thing I would say is that they remind me, even the times where it feels difficult, even the times where it's frustrating, even the times where it's exhausting, that is for a reason that we have people that have been their lives have been stolen because of the crisis of gun violence in this country that is not inevitable, it is preventable. And so that is something that it reminds me. It reminds me of like just the resilience that people have. It reminds me to have gratitude and appreciate the fact that when I'm having, like today, when I was like my youngest daughter that had to tell three or four times, get your shoes. It's like that third time when I said it, I said, get your shoes. And I remember it's like, I'm so glad I can say get your shoes to her. I'm so glad I can have an upside down morning some days with them, or I can have a great night when I'm coloring or watching a movie or eating popcorn or giggling or doing. We were doing the moonwalk the other day because they're they're now into like Michael Jackson because that movie came out. So every morning it's like doing a new dance. And I re I just think about um slowing down, slowing down, appreciating what we have, breathing, resting, doing all the things that feel like it it's like a given. It's not a given. It's not a given. People have had to bury their loved ones in this country. And so it reminds me that so I can show up ready to go, ready to roll up my sleeves and do everything in my power to prevent the next tragedy from happening.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Well, speaking of slowing down, obviously gun violence prevention is deeply emotional, as you were just touching on. How do you personally carry the weight of it while continuing to lead?

SPEAKER_01 28:11

That's a really good question. I've had gotten better at it. I wasn't always good at this. I think I definitely take the time and build it into my schedule to do whether it's a Pilates class or go for a good walk with my dogs or just put in my AirPods and blast some music, read a good book. I just do anything that gets me to be fully embodied. Because oftentimes, in order to do this work, I can only speak for myself, but it's almost like you have to compartmentalize the trauma from the action. And there are people that don't have the privilege of doing that. If you're a survivor of gun violence, like to be able, you you just this your action is because of your trauma, oftentimes. But for me, I can slow down and take that time so that I can come refreshed and ready to go. Because this is a marathon, not a sprint. So I think that's really important. You have to have a good support system to lean on. There are some days where I'm just exhausted. And I remember going to an advocacy day in Oregon, I think it was last year, and I had one of those days when everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. Plus, on top of it, sometimes when I'm traveling, I'm so used to doing it, but there's some days where it hits me like, I miss my kids, where are my kids? All that goes together. And I was literally walking with a knot in my throat into that advocacy day. Like I didn't know what would happen that would make me feel like I was just gonna melt into a puddle, but I felt like I had a responsibility, a responsibility to do this. And you know the beauty of a movement like Moms and Man Action is that we're all doing this together. Again, like I said earlier, I'm not doing this alone. And because I showed up, a minute I walked in that door, there was a volunteer that came to me and was like, We're so happy to see you. Gave me the biggest hug and it's like, here, I have this for you. And she gave me a quote by Gandhi. Oh, I could have melted. It was literally what I needed to hear that day. And so I remember that there's like I say, the little earth angels that show up every single day that keep you moving forward when you want to just sit down or throw up your hands and just be done. But it's also okay to say it's hard. It's also okay to sit down and cry. It is really difficult to hear about the loss of life or lives being stolen by gun violence. All lives, and in particular, it lands so hard with me with children. And so there are times when those things happen that I'm moving and moving and moving at work, and then I get home, and when I finally sit down, I literally collapse. I remember that happened after Lavalde's shooting. We went into rapid response as we always do. We did everything, we're reaching out to the community. What do you need? What do we need to do to make sure that this doesn't happen again? I did all that all day long. Like you're in the adrenaline goes through your body. And then I sat down that evening and I just cried because it's just unbearable to think about as a parent, as a human. Like you don't even have to be a parent to understand how horrific that is. So I think giving yourself that permission, you don't have to be a superhero. You just have to show up with heart and show up with drive and and all those things. And so I think that's what's important to me. And that's how I stay in the fight.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Yeah. And you've also spoken a lot in your career about the importance of finding joy in difficult work. Why is joy in particular such an essential part of sustaining a movement to you?

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Joy is important because without it, we don't realize the gifts and the opportunities we have around us. And like joy to me is linked to gratitude. I think you have to start with that in order to find joy. Because sometimes we could turn around and say, especially if if there has been a loss or life has been stolen, or even if you're expanding out, looking at the world and the state that it is, you can totally go into a place of like, oh my God, everything is on fire and upside down. But if you slow down and just look, like just focus on one or two things a day that you have joy about or you feel that you have gratitude for. And I would say two things for me, like if I were to just practice this right now, it's like me walking outside this morning, the weather wasn't too hot and humid yet. And I saw this beautiful blue jay that just like flew in front of me and landed on that bush. And I was like, wow, that was beautiful. Like, thank you, blue jay. You gave me something to focus on, even if it was just for 30 seconds, so that I can like it just gave me that extra breath I needed to take. I'm also grateful that I got to sit down and listen to all of these elementary schoolers sing this morning at the top of their little lungs, and they were singing things about unity and all kinds of things. They were they they had some local because we're near a base here. So they had local some of the troops come in and they were saluting them. It was just like a beautiful show of young people and their resilience and their like innocence. And that's what I because I can have gratitude for that, I can have some joy. I can have when I can have some joy, it can expand my worldview. I can see bigger, I can see bigger than myself and then my and bigger than my circumstance. So I think it's really important to have that because it allows you the space for creativity, allows you the space to see other people for who they are and not stiff arm them or say, Oh, I don't know, I don't recognize you're not like me, you're not talking like me, you don't look like me, we don't agree. Like it gives me a breath to say, Hi, my name is Angela. How are you? That's simple. That's where it all starts. That's where change begins, not with a long list and talking points. All that is part of it, but it starts there. And so I think that's what how joy makes it and such that we can continue to expand this movement and grow and actually make the change that we seek to make.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Yeah, I love that. On a very random side note, I'm still trying to grapple with your comment about it not being too hot or humid yet because Texas, it's like already a boiling pot.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

I know. Listen, I'm a summer girl. So I try not to complain too much, but it's like gonna be in the 90s here today, and it the humidity is here. But for me, when we're getting in that July-August time is when it's just like, ugh. And you have that humidity there, right? Where you are, like we do.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

So it's humid here, but having grown up in the Ozark Mountains, it's nothing compared to there. Uh so I'd rather be here, but I'd also just maybe rather be somewhere that isn't humid in general. But anyway, I digress. It's all relative, right? It is, it is. So obviously, you're a very busy woman. You're leading and inspiring and motivating. What protects you from burnout?

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Ooh, what protects me from burnout? Look, I this is something I'm still practicing. I tell you, because it's not work that I feel you can just sit down and just some, you know, I feel it's really hard to take a break from it. But I think what protects me from burnout is knowing that we have incredible leaders doing this work all over the place. And so we can like tap in and out. We can, we're here. We need this ecosystem of people to keep it moving, right? I think about ecosystems generally, like how things work, how we keep things moving, even if we think about environment. The same thing goes for a movement. You need to have people that can step in and people can that can sit down, people that show up at different times because this is a marathon. I keep saying that because it really is. And we can't depend on just any one person because you will burn out. So I think that's important. And I think taking the time, again, it goes back to the the things that I plug into that help me to for a moment take a beat. I love, I like to kind of physical body movement. So Pilates or like weight training, I do like with F-45 sometimes or dancing. I love a good dance. I love a good dance. Put on some music and you got me bopping around. Those are the things they seem like it's like, well, what is that? No, it's a big deal because it gives you the space to come back to yourself. I think if you can recharge, come back to self, reground, you're back in your purpose, then you're coming in fresh again and you're not burned out. So I think that's what does it. And of course, when I get to take a couple days off to just put up my feet, journal, read a good book. Like I'm planting things in the garden. We have blueberries all over the place right now that my daughter, every time I go to go outside to pick them, she's already gotten ahead of me and she's she doesn't pick them and put them in the little basket, she picks them and puts them in her mouth. And so I'm like, there were blueberries somewhere. She's like, oh yeah, they were delicious. So things like that really helped me.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

All right.

How To Join And Take Action

SPEAKER_00 36:42

So as we start to wrap up, for anyone listening who wants to make a difference, they've they've heard all the uh suggestions and advice you've shared. Maybe they don't see themselves as an activist. What would you tell them?

SPEAKER_01 36:56

I would say there's a lot to be done when it comes to tackling this crisis. I would urge you, you don't have to come and jump in. We're so good about meeting people where they are. I think you should start by like getting in touch with us, if not looking at the website, which can be really overwhelming, to be honest. You don't know what you're looking for. We have great information. Please look at the website. But I know that some people, it's like that's not the thing they're gonna do. I think you really should reach out to us and and just ask, like, what's going on in my community? No one's gonna rope you in and all of a sudden you're up speaking to a lawmaker. It's really interesting because you get to get together with parents of all stripes, community leaders of all stripes that are really trying to figure this out together. And it's really hyper-local, which makes it great. It's not just a big national piece. It's like that's important, but really it starts with our local. It starts with my neighborhood, my school board, it starts with my health department, it starts with all of that. And so I think you should reach out to us. That's what I say goes would go first because you could figure out where you fit in. And if you want to do that, you can text ready to 6443 and someone will be right in touch with you. It's not just a back and forth text. We like pick up the phone, we're like old school analog, the way I love it, where you're like, hey, hey, what's going on, Mary Joe? I see that you're interested. Where are you? What can you do? You want to have some coffee and we can chat about what's going on and what you might. So it's really like community-based. It's not no pressure, and you don't have to know everything. So I think you can start there. The second thing I'd say is what I said earlier is just those simple conversations. The next time you take your kid to a play date, a sleepover, anything, just say, Hey, are your firearms securely stored? Just want to make sure to keep our kiddos safe. Something that simple can open up a whole conversation and you could really save lives.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Yeah, you really can. For moms demand action, is there any big progress or initiatives you guys have got going on that's really exciting you right now?

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Oh my gosh, so much progress. I mean, we like to talk about the fight that we have ahead because it's a marathon, like I keep saying, you're gonna be so tired of that word marathon. But it is like a it's because it's so big, it's so pervasive, it's so multifaceted. When we think about gun violence in this country, most people think about like gun homicide. But we're talking about gun suicide, we're talking about domestic violence and intimate partner violence. We're talking about, you know, when we have unsecure firearms that are not properly secured, it's we have tragedy that comes from there. So some of the things that we're looking at is like industry accountability is a big one. We've had some real innovation in some places like California, Maryland, Connecticut, New York, where we are looking at do-it-yourself machine guns, like where there's conversion devices that take a pistol and to make it effectively a machine gun. So we've had great legislation there. We've passed some good stuff there. We're looking at 3D printers, like that's another thing. We have to stay with technology to be able to print components or to make a firearm or to alter them in any way that would make them more deadly. That's something we need to get ahead of. Those printers, by the way, are even at your kids' some of your kids' schools. So this is really important. I mean, they're unserialized, not traceable. So I'm really proud of the work that we're doing, like on some of the technology and industry work is absolutely incredible. And I oftentimes talk about, and I've said it a hundred times already here, is the work, even the community spaces around secure storage that's really important because that's that's like a low-hanging fruit, easy lift to make sure that we're keeping ourselves safe. And then the very last thing is anything that we're doing to support commercial community violence intervention organizations that are on the ground stopping the next tragedy from happening is so important, especially since a lot of their funding has been taken away. That's important to us to make sure that we are helping wherever we can.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

I always like to end with this question What does hope look like to you right now?

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Wow. Hope is the next generation or this current generation of incredible leaders getting up, like young people going to testify, even if they're a voice shake, the survivors that get up every single day and carry that picture of their loved one around, and they know that their mission is every day to carry out something that's going to make sure that their loved one is not forgotten and that there's not another tragedy like the one that they face. Those are just two examples of the hope that I have. But also we're passing incredible legislation across this country and we're electing incredible leaders from our own movement that are stepping up to run and lead with courage and make sure we're keeping this community safe. That's what gives me hope.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

I love it.

Hope Progress And Closing

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Everyone, I hope you agree. This has been a truly inspiring, amazing conversation with Angela. I sincerely hope you will go to momsdemandaction.org to learn more, whether you're ready to fully dive in and do the big work, or you just want to have that cup of coffee, like she said, and figure out what's going on in your community and what little things can you do every day to, or not every day, to get involved and learn more about gun violence prevention in your community. As she also mentioned, you can text join to 64433 and get started on that as well. Thank you so much, Angela. It was truly an honor.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Thank you, Rachel. This is a great conversation.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Thank you for listening to Working Girl. If this conversation resonated with you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with someone who cares about building a more just world. You can learn more about today's guest and find additional resources in the show notes. Until next time, stay curious, stay compassionate, and keep doing the work.