Best of Hero Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail

In this soul-nourishing compilation episode from our Hero Highlight series, Chandler revisits her most meaningful conversations with Reverend Lizzie McManus-Dail, a priest who has helped many people (including her over 67k TikTok followers) reframe their understanding of faith, community, and healing. 

Whether you're rethinking religion, feeling disconnected from your spiritual roots, or simply craving a deeper sense of meaning, Lizzie’s guidance invites you to reimagine your relationship with the divine. Together, Chandler and Lizzie explore the intersection of motherhood, grief, ritual, and embodied faith — with honesty, humor, and deep reverence for mystery. 

What You Will Learn

• [00:07:06] How spiritual experiences often feel strange, wild, or chaotic — and why that’s okay.
• [00:08:40] The difference between spirituality and religion, and how they can work together.
• [00:11:50] What ancient prayers can teach us about vulnerability and safety.
• [00:14:27] Why spiritual community is essential, even when it feels uncomfortable.
• [00:16:55] How sacred stories connect us to something greater than ourselves.
• [00:18:19] The harm caused by the belief that “God hates us” — and how to reframe it.
• [00:20:15] Practical advice for exploring or re-entering a spiritual community.
• [00:24:18] How prayer can model accountability and repair in everyday life.
• [00:26:30] A powerful devotion for anyone struggling with forgiveness.
• [00:28:50] What it means to live a “wounded and whole” life.

Want to Hear More from Hero Lizzie? Check Out These Episodes!

• Spirituality, Religion, and the Rhythm of Our Lives
• Finding Spiritual Connection and Healing Through Community
• Spirituality for Emotional Resilience and Cultivating Hope
• Forgiveness is Part of the Healing Journey

Resources Mentioned

• God Didn’t Make Us to Hate Us by Rev. Lizzie McManus Dale (Book)

Let’s Connect!
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Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail

Website | TikTok | Instagram | Podcast

Chandler Stroud

Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

Mixing and editing provided by Next Day Podcast.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Chandler Stroud: Hey guys, it's Chandler and welcome to The Healing Heroes.

I'm Chandler Stroud, an executive wife and busy mom of two who after years of living with anxiety. Health struggles and an unshakeable feeling like I should be happier, made a profound discovery that changed everything. Join me on a journey where unexpected paths lead to healing and more happiness. On this show, we will explore [00:00:30] unconventional ways to unlock more joy in your own life with the help of my very own healers.

And trusted advisors, the Healing Heroes.

Hey everyone, and welcome back to the show. I am Chandler, your host, and I'm so excited to be with you all today for our special hero highlight series. Yes, today and throughout the next several weeks, we will be launching. A single [00:01:00] episode each week dedicated to one of our healing heroes so that you can get to know him or her a little bit better, the work they do, and get a CliffNotes version of all the conversations that I've had with them over the course of the last year, which you can get any 30 minutes snack size episode without having to go back and listen to all of our previous conversations together, though I highly recommend you do that because these conversations are so.

Good. [00:01:30] And so for today's episode, we are featuring the best of the Reverend Lizzie McManus Dale, our spirituality and religion hero, who has made such an impact on my life. It's honestly immeasurable and I have had so many soul touching conversations with her. I cannot recommend our conversations highly enough, and I am going to plug her new book.

God Didn't Make [00:02:00] Us To Hate Us, which is such an incredible book of devotions. And whether you're religious or not, I think it's just beautifully written and would recommend it to anyone interested in learning more about their own spirituality and religion, if that's something that you're into.

Spirituality has played. An enormous role, not just in my healing journey, but in my life, and while I gave up on my religion for a little [00:02:30] while, a few years there, which I go into detail into why during my first conversation with Lizzie, rediscovering my faith and strengthening my belief in something bigger than myself has had enormous impact on my ability.

To practice gratitude, to find joy every day, and to give back and feel more involved in my community and my conversations with Reverend Lizzie have left an [00:03:00] indelible mark on how I think about spirituality and religion. In fact, if you go back in every single interview I do with Lizzie, I ask her. In your opinion, Lizzie, what is the difference between spirituality and religion?

Because on this show, while I am all for religion, what we're really focused on is the spiritual aspects of healing. Believing in something bigger than yourself, feeling connected to something meaningful, not focused on the [00:03:30] rituals and rules that come along with practicing a religion, but really getting to the heart of the matter and spirituality can take.

So many different forms. It can be a meditation, it can be a walk in nature. It can be a sacred pause in the middle of your day, whatever that looks like for you. Being quiet with yourself and knowing that you're just a small part of something so much bigger, and that you do have not just everything you need within you, [00:04:00] but the help you need outside of you as well.

You are not alone. You are always being supported, and that is what spirituality has given me. The gift of trust, the gift of trusting in something bigger than myself of relinquishing my grasp for control. I mean, it has done wonders for my anxiety. It has done wonders for my ability to connect and love others.

And I want that for other [00:04:30] women and for you listeners, to really connect with yourself and your surroundings in a totally different way. In fact, I became even more grateful for my friendship and a working relationship with Lizzie because she was the first hero. I interviewed after my father passed away last fall, and I should have known it was gonna be an emotional conversation to begin with, but especially a priest in the months following my father's [00:05:00] passing.

And it really made me even more grateful to have a spiritual practice and for me, my religion as well, our conversation really touched me and helped me gain perspective. On some of the events that happened his last week of life in ways that hadn't occurred to me, until I opened up to her and talked through my faith, my religious practices and rituals that keep me [00:05:30] grounded every day, like prayer and meditation, all of those things were such helpful tools and having that kind of meaningful conversation coming out of such a life-changing experience.

Really helped me and shed new light on a really tough part of my experiences and in my life that I will forever be grateful for. And so with that, I would love to introduce. [00:06:00] The Reverend and my hero, Lizzie McManus Dale. Enjoy.

[00:06:09] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: I'm a big fan of keeping church weird, you know what I mean? Like I think sometimes 

[00:06:15] Chandler Stroud: I support that. That should be your new motto. Thank 

[00:06:17] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: you. Put it on a bumper Sugar. Keep church weird. Seriously, I think there's so much stuff that I learned in divinity school, which is like. Pastor school that I've learned by reading the mystics and the Saints and these like super [00:06:30] wacky medieval women who loved God and wrote about God.

And I read them and I'm like, this is incredible. And then I think sometimes the church as an institution is very tempted to sanitize those stories 'cause we don't wanna scare people or we think they're too strange. And I don't know, I'm out here living a life where I'm like, yeah, it's not too strange.

Parenting a toddler makes everything seem less strange. 

[00:06:53] Chandler Stroud: Yeah, I think that's right. Strange and unpredictable and messy. [00:07:00] Sometimes so messy. It's not all so perfect and rigid, and sometimes there's chaos. Yeah, 

[00:07:06] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: and I think every single person at some point, maybe once a day, maybe once a week, maybe once in their lifetime, has this moment of.

Am I crazy? Like this is just so wild. There's no template for this. This feels so strange. And, and, and if we don't give ourselves permission to name the sort of wildness of our spiritual lives in religious spaces, then religious spaces are not allowing the fullness of our wild [00:07:30] and enormous and unimaginable God to express godself, nor are they allowing us to fully tap into all that we can be as spiritual beings.

[00:07:38] Chandler Stroud: I agree. I think that's really. Important to keep in mind. So Lizzie, I think what you said is really important, and I do feel like we all, I think a lot of listeners probably imagine these spiritual gatherings as perhaps obvious places to connect and find community with like-minded people who maybe [00:08:00] possess similar.

Beliefs or backgrounds as it relates to spiritual practice and religion. But are there ways spirituality, you think help people from different backgrounds or belief systems celebrate their differences in a way that fosters a deeper connection and sense of community? 

[00:08:19] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: Yes. Yes. I mean, in my heart and hope and in my experience, that is the best of what churches and the best of what spiritual communities do.[00:08:30] 

[00:08:33] Chandler Stroud: I would love to hear your perspective on what spirituality is and how you think it differs from religion. 

[00:08:40] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: The place that I've most come to with this is spirituality is. This kind of innate sense that all of us, I really believe are born with a sense of God or the divine or something bigger than ourselves, and that is actually the fact that we're born with it is something.

I became a mom two and a half years ago and [00:09:00] I had been a hospice chaplain, and so I had seen very much at the end of life people who. Had no real cognitive function left, who didn't know their name, who didn't recognize their children, who still seemed to have this like divine sense of peace as they were entering the sort of twilight years or days of their life.

And then to see that sort of in its. Infancy, literally in a newborn who just has such a sense of wonder and bigness of the world. I, I really was like, oh, we're really born [00:09:30] knowing God. I mean, that's the language I use. I invite all of your listeners to use the language that is meaningful to them. But as a Christian and as an Episcopal priest, and I'm gonna speak from my context 'cause it's the context I can authentically speak to, so that's like the spirituality is sort of this organic fluid natural.

Thing and religion is a structure and there's lots of different religions throughout all of history and time. But speaking specifically to Christianity and my training and background and sociology, religion is the structure by [00:10:00] which we can not only start to express this sort of innate sense of who God is and how we connect with God and structure that gives us.

Patterns and places and ways to pray because sometimes, you know, I sort of think it's a, it's not a perfect metaphor, but like if you're born with sort of a natural athletic talent or natural athleticism, learning a sport, you learn discipline. You learn how to play with a team, you learn how to hone those skills.

You learn how to develop those skills. You learn from people who [00:10:30] know how to do this and have been doing it a lot longer than you have, and who can draw out the best in you. And I think. At its best, certainly knowing there's been lots of exploitation and versions of religion that are not its best 

but, 

[00:10:43] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: but at its best religious community, religious practice, religious institutions are like that.

There. There're a place where you, you connect with community. You connect with other people, some of whom are like-minded, and certainly in Christianity, many of whom are not. Jesus says over and over to [00:11:00] love your enemies. And I think sometimes we think that's some sort of far off thing, when more often than not, your enemy might be the person on the church committee you're with who drives you up the freaking wall.

Right. Or, or the parents of that kid who was mean to your kid in Sunday school, right. Or whatever. But religious communities at their best are a place where we learn how to do this as a team sport, where we learn from each other, we grow together, and we reach out to serve this world that God has made.[00:11:30] 

We have a, a prayer in the Episcopal church that I have said every night for 10 years. This prayer service, it's very simple. It's called Coplan. So it, it comes from a really ancient history all the way back to monks and nuns, to the desert, mothers and fathers, to people praying and keeping the hours of every day, praying at certain times every day.

And Coplan is night prayers or right before you go to bed. And these prayers have a lot of intercessions or like. Pleading to protect us from the [00:12:00] perils of night, which for years I was sort of like, yeah, sure, okay, God, please protect me from the perils of this night. And I had like kind of an academic like intellectual grasp that these are prayers from a time before electricity, right?

Or you know, even from a time when people were like genuinely afraid of lions coming in and eating them, which is like, you know, still a reality in parts of the world, right? So there, there's sort of this like kind of. Almost like primal urgency. This like very ancient fear of the night that's in these prayers that I did not have as someone with 21st century [00:12:30] American comforts who can flip on a switch.

And then, and then, and then I had a baby and I had that wave of. Hormonal panic of falling in love as a mother. This like tidal wave of, I have never known love like this. This is so powerful. This is so consuming, and oh my. God, my heart is now outside of my body and I suddenly realized that this night is full of peril.

This [00:13:00] night is full of terrors and especially for me, I didn't sleep the whole time I was in the hospital after giving birth 'cause I was so afraid to close my eyes and take my eyes off of my daughter. In part because I'd had a very traumatic birth and she wasn't breathing when she was born, and so they couldn't give her to me right away.

They had to, they had to save her life, right? They were doing what they needed to do. But, but that moment of not being able to hold her like the first time in her life, we'd been separated. I couldn't be there for her, haunted me. And so all of a [00:13:30] sudden in this moment, that wasn't like the deepest grief of my life.

I've, I've had losses, but was sort of the greatest terror in realizing. My own vulnerability and loving her so fiercely outside of my body and realizing, oh my God, I have given birth. I have helped create the person who is going to be in my undoing if something happens to her. Right? All of a sudden I was like, God protect.

Her save me from the perils of this night. I know that there are enemies, like a roaring and [00:14:00] ravaging lion. Protect her, protect her, protect her, and give me the assurance that you are God and I am not so that I as an exhausted mother can take a sleep. 

[00:14:11] Chandler Stroud: Oh, Lizzie. That I'm sure resonates with so many women out there.

Can I ask, why do you believe community is so important in maintaining and deepening one's spirituality? What are some of the key benefits people might experience 

[00:14:27] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: speaking as a Christian? [00:14:30] I actually really deeply believe, and this is a very ancient, old, traditional way of thinking about Christianity that I don't often hear talked about quite so explicitly, but the way to be a Christian is not to do so in isolation.

We, in in the Bible, in the life of faith in church services talk a lot about being the body of Christ. And there's a lot of things we mean when we say that. But one of the things we mean is that our individual bodies. Our souls and [00:15:00] bodies are connected. We are somatic beings, right? What we think and what we do is not divorced from how we physically see, smell, touch, taste, interact with the world.

[00:15:10] Chandler Stroud: Amen. That 

[00:15:11] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: right? Right. That's like so much of what you're doing with this podcast, and so our individual bodies. Together form a body. And we talk about this like in other spaces, like the whole audience, you know, the way we sort of somatically link up to people when we are watching a movie together, right?

You go in a movie theater and it's a really emotional [00:15:30] movie and there's lots of people crying and you may not know the person three seats over from you, but you're having this shared emotional experience. Well that in a, in a. Religious space and specifically in a Christian space is us saying, we together, our individual bodies make up the body of Christ.

And that also means that in our diversity, in our difference, in our different life experiences, in the different way our bodies look and our different ages, and also to get really like theological about it. Our experiences and bodies [00:16:00] across time. So all of our ancestors and all of the people who will come after us in the communion of saints, we are connected into this greater body and this greater community.

And there's so much that that means. But one thing that I think is really important for me is it helps me be a little bit less self-absorbed in that. Sure. Sometimes it's like, oh my gosh, I'm so selfish or whatever. And you know, it's nice to remember that there are other people who have other problems, but I think the bigger temptation is I sometimes think I have to [00:16:30] fix it all myself or when we are in grief, and this is the thing that I see a lot.

It's very tempting because it's such a lonely and terrible thing to lose someone or to have a horrible diagnosis or to be in a deep depressive episode. We're very tempted to think I am the only person ever who has felt this way, because in that moment I. You feel alone. You feel like you're the only person who's ever been through that.

But actually, actually you're not. And you're never [00:17:00] alone. You're never alone in what you're suffering because God is with you. But also you're never alone in what you're suffering because millions of people are also suffering without right now and have suffered with it before. And that's what we hear when we go to church.

If you go to temple or synagogue, you know, wherever you hear stories, ancient sacred stories. And part of why these stories were preserved and passed down, it's not because every single person in the Bible's a great person. In fact, many of them are like super reprehensible, gross people. [00:17:30] But you know, we're like in lectionary preaching right now, which is like the sort of season of stories we're hearing in church.

There's all these stories about David in the Old Testament, and David can be a great guy. He can also. It sucks sometimes. I mean, thanks for your honesty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. David Bathsheba. Yeah. Ooh. Rough, rough story to put it lightly. And so we hear these stories to remind us like one other people have messed up and still been worthy of love and dignity and belonging, and [00:18:00] other people have messed up and still found reconciliation and forgiveness with God and other people have suffered, and this is how they made sense of it.

And you were not alone. And here is maybe not a blueprint, like an exact map to follow, but here's a companion to walk with you in this journey.

This is just so like salient, just how, how much there is this. Idea this, this, this, imagining that God hates us, that God only made us to have this like barely [00:18:30] contained wrath for us. And I think that seed germinates into all kinds of distrust within ourselves, which leads to not having emotional resilience.

That leads to fear that when we. Are struggling when we don't have emotional resilience, when we're scared, when we're sad, when we're mad that we must be unfaithful inherently, or that we're not grieving correctly, or that we're not, you know, being, we're not following God faithfully, when in fact God did not make us to hate us.

God made us out of God's [00:19:00] propagate, extravagant, gorgeous over the top Joy. Because God wanted to, God did not need to make human beings. God chose to. And that is such a fundamental and simple shift in thinking. But when you shift that tectonic plate to pull on your metaphor from earlier, everything, suddenly it's like, it's like clouds part.

And also we go deeper into the cloud at the same time, it's like come into the deep mystery. That's a very apathetic thing. And Christian theology is like apathetic, [00:19:30] meaning sort of these two. Opposites that are held together. We go deep into the mystery of God, of like God hating us, gives us a nice little template for how the world is supposed to work, and it's nice and orderly and we get to be in control.

And when in fact God's like, I just desire to make you, it's like, wait a minute. This world is so big and complicated and full of pain, like how do we navigate that? And so that's the entrance into mystery, but also the entrance into, okay, if the original seed, if the original like intention [00:20:00] is also the final intention, which is love and joy and companionship and community.

How does that rewrite everything? 

[00:20:08] Chandler Stroud: It's a big question. It's a very big question.

What advice would you give to someone looking to deepen their spiritual connection through community? 

[00:20:19] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: Okay, so I'm going to assume this is someone who's not regularly participating in a spiritual community. Is that, 

[00:20:26] Chandler Stroud: let's make that a fair assumption. Okay. We can, you should [00:20:30] answer the question from the perspective of someone who is not engaging in a community today.

[00:20:35] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: I commend it. I commend a community to you and, and here's why. I, I know people who are so traumatized from certain church experiences that stepping into a community is triggering for them. So I'm not saying that you need to put yourself in a, in a, a place that is going to do you psychological harm.

And if, if you are in a place where you're like, well, that feels uncomfortable, which is different than psychological harm, [00:21:00] let's just be very clear, right? That feels like scary. That feels like kind of a new thing. Like I may not know anybody there. I would challenge you to try and there are a few practical tips and a few spiritual tips.

So practically it really matters to me. Obviously that communities be L-G-B-T-Q affirming and not just sort of passively affirming but deeply committed to that. And any church that is affirming of women in ministry and affirming of L-G-B-T-Q folks should say so on their website. I mean, this is the digital age, so [00:21:30] pull up Google Maps, see what churches or spiritual communities are around you and check out their websites.

Have mercy on them if their websites look like they were made in 1995, 'cause they probably were. I will say internally I'm working on it. I'm trying to convince my people to do better, but just have a little mercy and, and, and don't be afraid to check it out. And, and honestly, if you see, I'll pull a plug for the home team, the Episcopal church.

If you see an Episcopal church and you send an email to the priest, [00:22:00] which is probably called rector or Vicar, the head, head, you know, person in charge, say, Hey, I'm kind of curious. But I'm nervous. Can you tell me what to expect or can you have someone there who will sit with me? We would love to do that for you.

I will share it. Jubilee, my team of people my lay team, we are on the lookout every Sunday for new folks. I. And we try not to like overwhelm and be like, oh my God, you're new. We're so excited. Right. You know, like I try to have some chill, but like we're excited and we we have a little [00:22:30] gift to welcome people.

We have these handmade candles that a friend of ours makes. They smell incredible 'cause she's a sommelier. She was actually Beyonce sommelier. I'm getting down in rabbit holes here. I know, I know. 

[00:22:39] Chandler Stroud: Amazing. I will, I mean, I'm coming either way, but I will definitely look for a candle. 

[00:22:45] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: Yep. You're so great.

But we're so excited to have you and like I get emails like this all the time of people being like, I'm really curious and like, I am happy to meet with people before to like answer any questions. And also, I've really worked hard on our website so that it tries to sort of lay out what can you expect?

[00:23:00] Lots and lots of churches are live streaming their worship now, so you can even just wash the whole service from home and just sort of scope it out. That's sort of the practical pieces. But I think the biggest thing is, is just make the leap and, and, and give it, give it a chance, right? Like as the person who is writing the sermons every week and standing up on the pulpit, not every sermon is a 10 out of 10.

Not every Sunday goes off without a hitch. But, but trust your good. I'm gonna 

[00:23:27] Chandler Stroud: say yours are Livy. Oh God. 

[00:23:28] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: They, I promise you they're not, I [00:23:30] promise you they're, that's really sweet of you to say, but I'll be the first to say, look, some of them are better than others, and that's just part of it, you know, that's just part of the creative life.

And, but just give it, give it a try and, and be open-minded and open-hearted to it. And, and if it. If it's new and different, not new and toxic, right, new and different, that's okay. Let that teach you. Let that lead you and see what unfolds. Because even if you just try a place out. A couple times, you know, that [00:24:00] might open up new doors for you.

And it's also kind of like finding a therapist sometimes you have to try one church and be like, okay, this wasn't for me back to the drawing board, but like, don't be daunted, you know? And, and there's all sorts of reasons for that because churches are also places full of people.

Praying to God to ask for forgiveness has helped me be better about asking for forgiveness from my kids and from my spouse and from the people around me because it makes me less afraid. You know? It makes me less afraid that they're gonna be like, oh, actually you're a [00:24:30] terrible person and I hate you.

It's more like, oh, I messed up. And actually, like, that's actually my, my resolution for this year is like, say sorry more. Which, you know, and be, it's a great resolution. It's great, it's great. It's be more unapologetic about the things that I'm not actually sorry about, right? Yep. My gifts, my skills, my abilities, the things, you know, like a, a really great feminist, like, yeah, I can do this, but also I want to model for my children that we all mess up and I can say I'm sorry, and it doesn't have to be a huge thing.

[00:24:58] Chandler Stroud: We talk about that a [00:25:00] lot in our house, like boundaries are critically important, but so is accountability and responsibility When you make a mistake. Right? Mm-hmm. It's in the repair, and I think that's pretty much a good summary of what we talked about today. 

[00:25:13] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: Yeah. 

[00:25:14] Chandler Stroud: Yeah. Oh, Lizzie. I mean, this is just, well, let's put it this way.

I will never have another episode with you without a giant box of tissues to my left. So there's that. Thanks for that. But maybe I just needed a good cry today. I don't know. This [00:25:30] book is just so beautiful. I can't say enough good things about it. I obviously. How to sneak peek and I'm just so excited to read it straight through and thank you for birthing it and bringing it into the world.

And I think, you know, for me, who recently rediscovered spirituality and religion and, and not as familiar with the Bible and some of you know, the more formal aspects of our, of my [00:26:00] religion and Christianity. This type of work is so helpful and meaningful in bringing that meaning back to a lot of these rituals, these practices, what it means to have faith, what it means to be spiritual in a way that's so relevant and easy to understand.

Can you share a specific devotion from your book that you believe is particularly impactful for someone struggling with forgiveness today? [00:26:30] 

[00:26:30] Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail: I can, so I'm gonna share a little bit from chapter 33. So this is coming near the end of the book called Things We Cannot Heal. And Every Devotion like a good devotional, opens with a Bible verse.

And so this one opens with Psalm 69, verse three, which goes, I am weary with my crying. My throat is parched. My eyes grow, dim with waiting for my God. [00:27:00] We do not heal from everything. Some things are so horrific, so life altering that even though we keep living, our wounds remain open unhealed to say this, as a priest who offers healing liturgies, who follows Christ, our true physician, the one who restores sight and raises the dead may seem contradictory at best, but the thing is.

Christ himself is a wounded [00:27:30] healer whose very resurrected body still bears the wound in his side and the holes in his hands and feet. Wholeness after trauma does not mean unblemished. Ease. Bodies are changed. Lives are fundamentally never the same. Perhaps healing means learning to walk even without stability.

Perhaps it means adapting to life with a [00:28:00] wound, a chronic illness, a chronic despair that threatens to overwhelm us. And then I go on in the chapter and I wanna save some of that 'cause I want y'all to be able to read it. I talk about some of the things that I've been through in my life, but I come to this conclusion I.

Healing is essential, but it is not linear, and it is not about restoration to a mythic perfect state, [00:28:30] Christ defeats death, and he is still marked by its claws. The marks in his hands, his side, his feet, even God knows what it is to bear the absence of what once was for everyone to see. But God also shows us in this wounded healing you can.

You will still live a joy-filled and beautiful life. The thing that tried to kill you, that did kill a [00:29:00] part of you is not the end of the story. Your love is not a limited resource. Your love is not shortchanged by what was taken from you. God has wept with you and God will rejoice with you too. Beloveds, I know the shrapnel from trauma like this can cause as much harm as the event itself.

Be merciful with yourself. But also know this, the big [00:29:30] bad thing that happened there will be days it still brings you to your knees. But I know from experience that you will learn when you need to honor this grief by staying down and when you need to honor it by getting back up again. This healing and non-healing together has made me softer and more tender and more fragile.

This is part of my superpower. I can be completely broken and keep living and so can you [00:30:00] because Christ lives. I live you live. We live wounded and whole.