Healing After Child Loss with Mindset Coaching: Jodi's Story | Healing Heroines

Our Healing Heroine series continues with Jodi, joined by Hero and Mindset Coach Katie Wee. Jodi opens up about her son, Pao, and her experience helping him navigate his mental health struggles. In this heartfelt conversation we discuss his passions, the community that loved him, and her journey of navigating life after his suicide learning to carry her grief while still honoring his story.

Almost a year after Pao’s passing, Jodi attended Katie’s Happy Camp retreat, where she began to discover that healing isn’t about “moving on,” but about finding small ways to move forward—sometimes just one moment at a time. From creating safe spaces at home to finding supportive spaces in your community, to healing modalities like meditation and grief counseling, Jodi reflects on what has helped her keep going in moments when it felt impossible.

This conversation is a reminder that while grief has no ending, you can still find joy again. 

What You Will Learn

•  [00:13:30] The transition process for teens after crisis care, including partial hospitalization and IOP
•  [00:15:00] Creating a “safe house” with no sharps, weapons, or medications — and the social limits that can come with it for a teenager
•  [00:16:30] Jodi’s son’s passions, including his for Japanese culture and anime
•  [00:19:30] Why it’s so difficult to distinguish crisis from “normal teenage” behavior
•  [00:36:15] The importance of surrounding yourself with a community during grief
•  [00:38:30] How hitting rock bottom pushed Jodi to try every possible healing practice
•  [00:40:30] Taking the leap to attend Katie’s Happy Camp as a major turning point in Jodi's healing
•  [00:45:00] The power of Katie’s guided meditation and why it was life-changing for Jodi
•  [01:05:45] A grief truth: “Grief has a beginning. It has a middle, but it doesn’t have an end.” 

Let’s Connect!
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Jodi 

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Katie Wee

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Chandler Stroud

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Mixing and editing provided by Next Day Podcast.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Chandler Stroud: Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Healing Heroes Podcast. I'm your host Chandler, and today we are featuring another Healing Heroine episode, which is a format where I will interview one of my very own heroes, but will do so alongside a female client of theirs who they've helped heal and move through hardship or tragedy.

Today's episode is going to take us into the heart of healing through loss. Through [00:00:30] trauma, through the quiet decision to keep going, you'll hear from Jodi, a woman who I now call a friend. Thanks to our time spent together at Katie's Happy Camps, both in Sedona and Mexico, Jodi has walked through unthinkable grief and is here to share her story.

First, let me tell you a little bit more about Jodi before we begin. Jodi first pursued a career in forensic science at the FBI's DNA [00:01:00] analysis unit and later international operations, which she later departed to earn her master's in business from UVA's Darden School of Business. Her career path has included stops through forensics, strategy, consulting and bank risk management, as well as acting and modeling.

As a mom of three, her newest adventure is CEO and founder of Aroma Wellness Boutique, a shower and bath aroma therapy company, a business [00:01:30] she created following the tragic passing of her son as a channel for grief and healing. Over the last two years, therapy and mindset coaching have been huge focus points of her life, and she has worked to raise awareness and funds for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.

You'll also hear from our very own hero and mindset coach, Katie, we, who has supported Jodi through a truly transformative journey. [00:02:00] You all know Katie and her work by now, but for new listeners out there, she's a hero on the show and my mindset coach, which essentially means she guides individuals to rewire old beliefs and meet their future selves with compassion and clarity.

She's also a speaker, writer, actress, survivor, and founder of Happy Camp. You may have seen Katie on TV shows such as Modern Family, Hawaii, five Oh New Girl or General [00:02:30] Hospital, or have read her writing in Newsweek or the Huffington Post at Happy Camp. She teaches others how to love themselves on the deepest level and to use manifestation to create what they want in their lives all while Blissing out in Paradise.

Sounds pretty amazing, right? Well, today we're going to see that work come to life in a very real and powerful way, thanks to Jodi's willingness to share and help those listeners who may be struggling with similar experiences. [00:03:00] So with that, welcome ladies. I am so happy you are both here with us today and cannot thank you enough for your willingness to share your wisdom, your stories, and of course for offering your time today.

Thank you for being here. 

[00:03:16] Katie Wee: Thank you. So happy to be here. Yes. 

[00:03:19] Chandler Stroud: I'm really excited to get into the meat of the conversation today, ladies, but to start, let's just begin with a light warmup question for everyone so they can get to know you and kind of what you're [00:03:30] thinking about present day. So Katie, before we get into some of the deeper conversation, what's something bringing you peace this week?

[00:03:37] Katie Wee: Hmm. I am six months pregnant and enjoying the journey though also at the stage where I'm feeling like it's all closing in, like it's, we're getting close to birth, you know something giving me peace is that Billy, my husband and I took a birth class over the weekend where we learned a lot about Empowered Birth and Billy went from what he said was a level three outta 10 of preparedness [00:04:00] to a level nine out of 10.

So that's giving me a lot, makes an accomplished gimme a lot piece. Yeah. Billy feels great about all of it, and I, I feel really good too. Yeah, 

[00:04:08] Chandler Stroud: that's great. That's, I love hearing that those birth classes can be so exciting and so energizing. When you're expecting. 

[00:04:14] Katie Wee: Yeah, it was. It was good to be there together.

[00:04:18] Chandler Stroud: Well, thanks for sharing, Katie. Jody, what's a simple joy that's been anchoring you lately? 

[00:04:23] Jodi: I. So I actually, I shared this with Katie in our last session together. Something I've been doing and, [00:04:30] and it really takes you back to something that Katie had said at our first happy camp in Sedona, which is like doing things that are gifts to your future self.

Something that kind of helped me overcome some procrastination and things like that. But this one is like a very fun little ritual and I sort of think of it as someone coming to my hotel room and giving me turn down service. And I just do it to myself basically. So I go in my room about an hour and a half before I wanna go to bed, and I turn on like an extra cold air conditioner [00:05:00] in there and I turn on the air purifier and I light a candle and I like pull the covers back and I start like toasting it up with a little like foot heater and yeah.

And then by the time I get in there an hour and a half later, it's like just amazing little blissful place to go to sleep. 

[00:05:17] Chandler Stroud: That sounds amazing. So good. I need to revamp my bedtime routine clearly. Yeah. 

[00:05:23] Katie Wee: Turn down service. Love it. 

[00:05:25] Chandler Stroud: I mean, I love that. It's like the simplest stuff. I mean, I've really tried to do more [00:05:30] hot baths before bed.

'cause like obviously I, my both kids had colic and the thing was to like give them a hot bath before bed because it calms them and it have your, you know, body temperature drops. You go into like hibernation mode. Like there is truly nothing better than a hot bath before you get into bed. Mm 

[00:05:45] Jodi: mm-hmm. It's awesome.

[00:05:46] Chandler Stroud: So you're inspiring me to do that this evening. 

[00:05:48] Jodi: Nice. Mm-hmm. Excellent. 

[00:05:50] Chandler Stroud: Little extra self-care. 

[00:05:51] Jodi: Yeah, that's right. 

[00:05:52] Chandler Stroud: Right. All right, well thank you for sharing that guys. So. Jody, before we get into the specifics of mindset [00:06:00] coaching, specifically in the work you've done with Katie, can I ask you to walk us through your story for listeners in your own words to the extent that you're comfortable sharing it?

[00:06:09] Jodi: Yes absolutely. And you know, I come from a childhood with an absent father and my mother was, you know, out working and trying to make everything work. And I was the oldest sibling and responsible for a lot of the things, right? Packing up the lunch, getting to the school, getting back home, all of the things.

At a certain point my parents [00:06:30] officially divorced and my mother moved us to the east coast in with my grandparents, who became a very anchoring force. They're German immigrants. I'm first generation in America, and they had a pretty strict household, but it created a lot of structure and it was, it was a really great thing in progressing through that.

You know, my mother remarried a couple of years after we moved there and my. Stepdad had passed away in a airline airplane crash at a local airport. He was a tow pilot and the [00:07:00] glider behind him made some errors, so he did not get enough lift and crashed to the ground. And my mother was away on a ski trip, right?

So I had just seen him a few hours before because I was homesick from school. So when he went back down to the airport, it was very close to our home. We could see the runway, like from our, our house. So that was tough. From there, it was my first experience with real grief, I would say, and working through what that meant.

You know, the next time you got on the school bus and you know, [00:07:30] you and your sister are waiting to get on. You know, people who weren't normally nice to you or suddenly nice to you and like, do you wanna sit here or do you wanna do, you know, it was like, oh, this is really weird. Right. And, and just kind of working through some of those experiences.

And then of course, having a mom who, you know, was grieving herself as well. You know, ultimately she moved on, she remarried they're still married today. Just saw them. Oh, love this weekend. Love that. Yeah, they left this morning and as I continue to grow and experience [00:08:00] relationships, I got married in my late twenties and that proved to be a very difficult relationship.

It was very emotionally abusive relationship. Relationship. I knew it fairly early on, but we had had a child and, you know, we're thinking more and was kind of in that place of, well, I'm, I'm not seeing cheating and I'm not seeing addiction and maybe this is something I should be, you know, just. Grinning and bearing.

So my children have their parents together [00:08:30] and ultimately that relationship ended with him having an affair and, you know. Put it on a lighter note. Right. I often joked, you know, a couple years later I thought, man, I gotta send that lady a muffin basket because, you know, like you look back at, at what you know, you were taking and dealing with.

And, and I'll tell you, you know, when we separated, my third baby was two weeks old. You know, that is, wow, Jodi. So I had a 4-year-old, a 2-year-old, and a [00:09:00] newborn when he left the house. So it was, it was tough. You know, I was on maternity leave. I had all the emotions right of do I keep my family together?

Do I move past this? What do I do? But it became clear that a affair was an ending. So ultimately, you know, I, I did choose to move on, but there's just so much I don't remember, like from my children's early years, because you really do just try to make it through each day. It, it really is a survival.

Thing. And you're [00:09:30] protective. And our separation was difficult. Our divorce was difficult. Our relationship post-divorce was difficult. So it's been something I, I truly had to navigate, you know, along the way, you know, as I. Moved through that relationship and I'd gotten my MBA and you know, I'm, I was working and felt more independent and my kids were getting a little bit older, right.

And, and ultimately, you know, was able to co-parent well enough, right? Mm-hmm. My kids now live with [00:10:00] me, but, and we're building a better relationship with their father which we appreciate, but it was really tough on my son. I did everything I felt like was in my power to work through that very difficult circumstance for him and try to get him more stability specifically.

But he started experiencing feelings of suicide of self-harm right around sixth, seventh grade. So he was pretty young. And it was, the first time was after a well [00:10:30] it was while he was away on vacation with my ex-husband, and he was really struggling with that. So. He had expressed it to friends and God bless, you know, the friends were being taught all the right things by their parents even by the schools, by guidance counselors, et cetera, that they need to tell an adult if a child is expressing feelings and thoughts like that.

So they did. And and it eventually made it back to me. But of course, you know, he's away with his father. So I tried to communicate with his [00:11:00] father. It was very difficult. So when they did arrive back home, we immediately, you know, I took him to the pediatrician. We talked through it, we did, you know, the initial evaluation for depression and things like that, and ultimately sought family therapy.

It started as therapy just for my son, but, you know, ultimately it really needed to be inclusive of, of his father. So we tried that for several years, and when we didn't see improvement in that relationship, my [00:11:30] son moved on with it just for individual. Therapy. 

[00:11:34] Chandler Stroud: Okay. 

[00:11:34] Jodi: So it was tough years and you know, my son.

Struggled most significantly with COVID. So COVID hit mm-hmm. When he was in ninth grade. So he was just starting the high school experience and all of a sudden they're home. And, you know, already he was more anxious, more on the depressive side, you know, no cameras were required, right? There were check-ins [00:12:00] that were required and he wasn't meeting those demands.

We really struggled through freshman year. By sophomore year, we were starting to see a little bit more of a degradation of his mental health. And that's when we pursued a psychiatrist to start antidepressants. When all of the other avenues, right of let's try exercise, let's try you know, managing devices and limiting electronics and having more time with friends and all these things, they did [00:12:30] not bring about an improvement.

So ultimately we started medication but not too long after that, he made his first attempt. He was then hospitalized in the adolescent mental health facility at, at our local hospital. He was there for 10 days. It was a tough 10 days. Yeah. For everybody, right? I think in some ways. Emotionally, those might've been the easiest days for me because I knew he was safe.[00:13:00] 

I knew he was in a place where, you know, there were no weapons, sharp things, you know, anything of the like, and he was receiving daily psychiatric care, daily psychology lessons, daily group discussions, all of which I, you know, I really felt like could help him so much. And, and he can only have one visitor a day for one hour.

So it was Wow, tough. It was very tough that way. When he was discharged, he came in and stayed with me full time at that point. Okay. It had been recommended [00:13:30] by his psychiatrist that going back and forth would be too much of a trigger, so he stayed with me full time and that was, I felt a big win. But we had a lot to get through after that.

When an adolescent is released from that hospital, there are programs that they must go through step down programs and. The first one is called partial hospitalization program. He went through that. That's a shorter program. It's about three weeks, but you go several days a week and you're there most of the [00:14:00] day.

You do all of this instead of school or anything else. It's a lot of group discussion, psychiatric care, things like that every day that they're there and parental involvement. So they would have meetings, you know parent meetings. We'd all meet each other. We'd have a group discussion on topics and things like that.

And then the next program is IOP. So that is an outpatient hospitalization program where they're still required to go several times a week. It's about seven weeks long. So we did [00:14:30] that as the follow up, was real. So proud of how he did through all of that, you know, they could apply to become leaders in there, you know, to help lead discussion or help the, you know, doctors and things there.

And he would apply, and I still have one of his applications on the refrigerator right from 2022. But we were just so proud of him and he was so proud of himself. It was, it was really positive momentum for him, surely. And. When he did return home, there are rules around, it's called the safe house. [00:15:00] So if the child is discharged back home, you have to certify that there's no sharps.

There's no weapons, no medications. Like we purchased a safe and you placed everything in the safe. And anytime we needed scissors, like we went to the safe Wow. And I had to get them for a child and put them back and, mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:15:18] Chandler Stroud: I had no idea. 

[00:15:19] Jodi: It's, it's a lot. And it's, you know, for their best wellbeing, of course it also limits them socially.

So I think he. Really needed to see [00:15:30] friends, but he, through that program, you can't go to someone's house that's not a safe house. Right. You know, that way. And we don't want them picking up scissors or a box gutter or who knows what, and, and bringing that back home or pills so they can only have, you know, visitors at your home.

Which, you know, he was highly uncomfortable about, you know, he didn't wanna feel watched and at home and mom's there and, you know, the privacy all went away. There was no, you can close your door and hang out or hang out in the basement and go play video games like. [00:16:00] He had to be visible at all times. If, you know, I went to go play tennis, he came with me.

We couldn't leave him at home alone. You know, there's, there's a lot that goes into just the aftercare, I would say, to ensure that, you know, they're on the right path and the journey's going well. So he ended that program in August of 2022. He started a job that he was so excited about. He was a dishwasher at a Japanese sushi restaurant.

Love that. [00:16:30] He he had an absolute obsession over Japan, the Japanese language. He taught it to himself. He is, he was brilliant. Wow. Brilliant kid. Yeah. Taught it himself by listening to music and watching anime and things like that. And also took a book out from the library and would actually text on my phone with a Japanese friend of mine in, you know, characters.

So, oh my gosh. We would be on, you know, my capabilities. That's where sheriff. But yeah, he absolutely loved Japan. So he got that job, [00:17:00] loved it, absolutely loved it. Everyone there just adored him. So that was a fantastic experience. And a couple of weeks later he started back to school and we'd had a checkup with his psychiatrist and, you know, it seemed that the drugs were working well.

He was on an antidepressant and, you know, was indicating that it was still helpful. He was excited to go back to school and see friends. So there really seemed to be a lot of optimism. We went away for what turned out to be our last family vacation over [00:17:30] that Labor Day. We went down to the beach in North Carolina took pictures, did all the things, went mini golfing.

My parents came. It was like a great experience. And then I started to see some different signs that. I, I noticed, but in all honesty, I'm like, whoa, there's so much he's been through. Like there's so much work he's done to make so much of his mental health better and he's learned so much about how to talk about it, how to just give me a number from one to [00:18:00] 10 of how you're feeling.

That doesn't even start a conversation. It just, you know, indicates to me what's going on. 

[00:18:06] Chandler Stroud: Yeah. 

[00:18:07] Jodi: And, and I started to see his room was really messy and that had been like an earlier issue when okay. When he was really struggling and I thought, Hmm, this room's really messy. It's sort of weird. And he was just starting some group therapy for like a DD kind of stuff and like helping with how to do stay on top of your homework at school.

But I was [00:18:30] already seeing he was well ahead in classes he really liked and he was well behind already in the classes. He didn't really so much like. And you know, I think any person who's raising a tween or a teenager listens to this, they're like, yeah. Messy room. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Behind in the classes they don't like Yeah.

You know, working on the stuff they do, like Yeah. You know, and so you, you sit in the space all the time of weighing, is this a flag that something is wrong or [00:19:00] is this because he's 16 and this is 16 and sixteen's, you know, it's hard and it's messy and you know, if, if you don't have attention, you know, perfect attention and, you know, you get behind on things and it's hard to catch up.

And, you know, it happens to adults. I know it happens to kids. I know. And it's really hard to, to see. You know, looking back like what were indicators and, and what were just normal teenage behaviors and it is difficult to know the difference. [00:19:30] So I, I just wanna emphasize that because I know, you know, I beat myself up for a very long time as Katie knows.

And I mean, still do at times, but so many parents that have experienced a loss from suicide, particularly of children, they go through that blame stage. And it is really hard to know when a teen is struggling versus when a teen is just going through teenage years. It's really difficult. And if you have a child that isn't a sharer [00:20:00] naturally and a lot of boys aren't right.

It's hard to know what's really happening. And about two weeks later is when he took his life and it was a Friday morning and I was, I had started a new job about two months before that. So I was sitting and I was kind of getting on a Zoom call and, and then I got an email from the school, like an auto email in text and, and an email.

And, and it said that he [00:20:30] wasn't at school today. You know, your child's not at school and you know, these kids, they walk to school themselves. If they don't really wanna go, those kids are late, you know, just gonna be late. It's how teenager's role, right. And and I just thought, well, today though he left in time, he should have been there.

I thought, this is, this is kind of weird. And I immediately. Emailed his counselor and I, and I, she knew, you know what, he'd gone through the previous [00:21:00] school year and I said, Hey, I really need somebody to get eyes on Palo. I, I just need eyes on him to know that he's actually there. So can somebody please go find him?

'cause he should be there. And then I, after I sent the email, while I'm in my meeting, I thought, God, I don't, she could be in a meeting. She might not see this for an hour, you know? And, and that, yeah, started to panic me. And so my call ended at 10 30 in the morning and that's when I just, I said, okay, I'm gonna call the school.

I called the school and. Talked to a woman [00:21:30] there who also knew, you know, about his situation. She was in the office and I was like, can you please just go find him? Like, I need somebody to go find him, make sure he is there. And I, you know, I'm kind of like, sort of waiting and I'm like, why are you waiting?

You know, I, you should probably just like, go try to figure this out. And I just got in my car and I drove to a place where I knew he had made a previous attempt and the police were already there. And that is like, that's the feeling and the pity of your stomach. Like you just, [00:22:00] you don't forget, you know, and they were already putting up caution tape there.

So, you know, I approached, you know, the officer and I had said, Hey I think that might be my son. And it wasn't in an area where I could directly see, which I'm so, so grateful for. And he said, no, it's a, it's a girl. It's a girl. I said, no, I. I think it's my son. I said, he has long brown hair, you know, it's big, long, curly, [00:22:30] like beautiful thick hair.

I said, said and that's when he started asking more questions. And and he said, why, you know, how did you know to come here? Why would you come here? And I'm trying to explain this to him. And then I was held like at my car, I, I just had to sit there. Oh, totally. Yeah. So detectives came and nobody would share anything my.

Partner is former law enforcement detective. And I immediately called him, you know, in a panic and said, they won't tell me anything. I don't know why they won't tell me anything. And I'm [00:23:00] sure, like he was piecing it all together quite more quickly than I was. And, and so I waited and waited for probably a good hour just in my car.

Just, you know, being babysat, you know, appropriately. So you know, I don't think they want anyone kind of screaming and running to the scene and all this stuff. So I I was being babysat and I just sat in my car and I was just like, cried to God. I just said over and over, you know don't give this to me.

I please, like, I can't [00:23:30] handle this. Please don't give this to me. You know, I, I just had enough really difficult things in my life already, so I can't, I can't handle this one. Please don't give it to me. But ultimately, the detective from the crash reconstruction crew did come. To the car and, and he delivered the news.

And I don't wanna be him either, that's for sure. But that was the, that was the day. And, and oddly, you know, they're like, oh, do you wanna ride back to your house? I'm like, I [00:24:00] guess not. I, I, I guess I'm, I guess I'll drive. And I drove back home and the first person I called in my car was my best friend.

And I said, Hey, I need you not to freak out because I am freaking out. Said there was an accident and Pilot didn't make it, and I just need you to come to my house. She said, okay. I said. I just hung up and then, you know, then things just unfolded, you know, the [00:24:30] day from there between, you know, the police being involved in having to round up the other two kids from school 'cause news was already spreading around his school.

Somehow I ended up having a lot of trauma around my car and I wasn't able to drive for several months. I started like kind of exposure therapy to it about like three months after he passed away and I would just stay in it. And then I, once I got like too freaked out, I'd get out and I started cleaning it, you know, [00:25:00] on the inside.

I'm like, okay, I can do this. I'm like, okay, no. And then we'd move to like starting the engine and just sitting there and then I'd get too scared and I'd stop. So it took probably about six months for me to. Drive a car again. And you know, I'm just so thankful for the community of friends that I had around me who would pick me up and take me places and carpool my children, you know, and things like that, you know?

And my partner who helped you know tremendously through all that as well. So there was just [00:25:30] all kinds of interesting, immediate fallout and, and it was all so different. I mean, my youngest daughter that they both wanted to go right back to school that day. And it was homecoming weekend and it was, my oldest daughter was an all star cheerleader, still is.

And she had made the varsity team as a freshman for Cheer at school. And that was the homecoming game night. And the parade was happening and the cheerleaders were in the parade and [00:26:00] she just wanted to go back. And then the littlest one, she just wanted to go back. So I sent them back to school feeling real weird about that.

But that's what I did well. And that's what they needed. 

[00:26:11] Chandler Stroud: Jody, I have so many feelings and so many things I wanna say to you after hearing you walk through your story and everything that you and your family have been through. I first just wanna say thank you for sharing all of that. While you were talking, my heart, I felt beating everywhere in my body.

I can't [00:26:30] imagine going through what you went through that day, and I'm just so sorry. I really am. Thank you. I'm so sorry. 

[00:26:35] Jodi: Thank you. 

[00:26:36] Chandler Stroud: I also, you and I had talked about this at Happy Camp, so it's not, you know, I had known that you had lived through this, but I don't think I had a clear understanding of. The work and the level of vigilance that you had to live with and through for so long leading up to this.

I mean, [00:27:00] it's just really incredible what you did for your son and how much you supported him through that. And just listening to you, I was just in awe. And I wanna say that to you because I mean, he really had to have felt your love, he had to have in everything that you did. That was, that's a lot for any parent.

[00:27:19] Jodi: Yeah, thank you. He had journaled and left that, you know, with his backpack and things that morning at the scene and. The detectives [00:27:30] held the journal for a long time and I was originally told, you know, well it's evidence for this, for that. And I thought sort of weird. And I got back the other things, you know, that I could have back.

And then, you know, maybe it was probably around the six month mark or so, I, I just, I wanted to finally know a little bit more about what had happened and what they knew. It took me a long time to, to kind of want that. And that's when they finally released that to me [00:28:00] and they were just really cautioning, cautioning me about reading it and, and just really understanding that words on, you know, words on a paper are true for the moment you wrote them.

They are not representative always of how we. Truly feel deep in our heart when you, you know, look at your life over a decade or over a week. Right? We've all said things that we regret almost right after [00:28:30] writing them. Right? I have cards from an ex-boyfriend professing his love. It's not a thing anymore, right?

It's you know, we write things and often it's especially in a journaling way, right? It's to get them out of us. And sometimes they're the ugliest thoughts we have and they're not necessarily meant for anybody else. They're meant to just be gone from the inside of our brain. And maybe it's to never think about them again, or maybe it's to help process them.[00:29:00] 

But you know, in reading that, you know, he had a lot of anger towards me and I understood immediately I. What writing in a journal was for him, because I had been so closely involved with his post hospitalization programs. 

[00:29:19] Chandler Stroud: Hmm. 

[00:29:19] Jodi: That they encouraged so much of that. Like, let it out. Just if you don't feel like telling anybody, just write it down, you know?

Yeah. And I understood like, yeah, it, it's gonna be the meanest [00:29:30] stuff that he writes down. If I look back at my diary when I was, when I was 9, 10, 11, you know, I read, I look back at that sometimes when I'm at home I go, holy hell. Like I was, I was an angry little kid. And then I think like that's because, you know, I sort of remember that day That's because mom did this or mom 

[00:29:50] Chandler Stroud: did, you know?

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:29:51] Jodi: And, and in all reality, I was very much controlling his environment. And he didn't like that for lots of reasons. Right. [00:30:00] You know, first of all, 'cause he is 16 and 16 year olds don't like that. They really don't like that. But especially if you're gonna tell them you can't go to your friend's house, you can only hang out here.

Well, here is the least cool place in like their, you know, vocabulary. Right. So they don't wanna do that. And you know, there was a lot of, you can't do that or you have to come with me or, you know, all the things. Or occasionally, like I would still find a pair of scissors in his room 'cause I was still having to, you know, toss his room on a regular basis to [00:30:30] make sure there wasn't anything in there that shouldn't be in there.

You know? 'cause maybe like he was somewhere and went to CVS and, you know, bought aspirin or bought like, who knows, right? Like what turns into a weapon against yourself. The list is really, really, really long and it's not. Truly controllable. 

[00:30:47] Chandler Stroud: Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I think it's such an important point that you're making and I am really glad that you bring that up and are sharing a little bit of kind of what you learned after the fact.[00:31:00] 

I have to ask Jodi, like when you think about yourself before you started a lot of the healing work that you've since done in the months that followed your son's death, like how, what was your inner world like? Like how did you get through each day? What were you doing? Can you kind of share a little bit more about that?

[00:31:22] Jodi: Yeah, yeah. I. Well first my best friend that the very next morning we already [00:31:30] had an appointment to go see our mutual primary care physician. She said, you're gonna need some medication. You are gonna need something quickly or you will never sleep. She had a lot of experience with loss in her family and sudden loss.

And I, I was a puddle, so I'm like, you just, you know, I basically got stuffed in a car, you know, 'cause the, the day that he passed away, like that afternoon, he had, he wasn't eating really well. He had been diagnosed with arfid. So [00:32:00] Arfid is a an eating disorder. I'm sure it can affect adults as well.

It affects kids and it really has nothing to do with your body awareness or body consciousness or how you feel you look or I wanna be thinner. It's not bad. It's actually a kind of an all an alternative. Way that your brain processes being hungry and what food is, and it is more common in children on the spectrum.

Pelo hadn't been diagnosed on the spectrum. It [00:32:30] could have been though. I, you know, I don't know. But the texture or the smell or the, this, and they, early on they just look like picky eaters. But in reality, you know, there's something much more complicated happening. So we were really working through putting some weight on him with a nutritionist.

And she had prescribed for him like a heavy duty protein supplement drinks that I ordered right away. I ordered it, you know, the day we had the meeting with her, we'd had a couple meetings with [00:33:00] her, ordered it, and it arrived like that afternoon. And that just. That was a thing that just put me over the edge like immediately because I thought, oh my God, like this is here.

Because I was parenting him. 'cause I'm his mom and he's not here for me to parent anymore. Like, what do I do with this? What? What do I do with this package of nutritional enhancements? And I just like held it in my arms. I like hugged it [00:33:30] for hours and I just cried. And then I got stuffed in a car and I got taken to the doctor and I got an antidepressant.

Prescription. And I also got a Valium prescription so I could sleep and, you know, medication's, not for everybody, but it was a tremendous, tremendous help for me. So that's, you know, that was the first thing like that happened. And, and then the second thing that happened, and it was the second day I found a grief counselor and I was no stranger to therapy.

I'd been through it [00:34:00] with my ex-husband, I'd been through it, just over everything I experienced, you know, growing up. And I'd been through it with, you know, the partner that, that I have. So I I found one pretty quickly and we really gelled and she had fantastic advice like very early on. 'cause it was really at that point trying to get through the service.

I mean, you're talking about like, how, how do I plan this event for my child who. [00:34:30] Should be here. And how on earth do I honor him to the extent of how full my heart is for him. Like, it, it was, it was a task or a thought that was so overwhelming. It was crushing. It was absolutely crushing. And again, like my best friend and the people around me really rallied and they planned it all.

And they came to me every day and they'd say, okay, we need one decision. Here's the decision we need. And [00:35:00] that's all I could take. Everything was in bite sizes. I made one decision a day for about, you know, 12 days. By the time we had everything together and they created something I could, I, I certainly wasn't capable of creating myself and more than I ever could have dreamed of to honor my son in so many different ways from the music that was playing to Japanese, Ikebana, you know, flowers there and, you [00:35:30] know they had people in the neighborhood and kids paint rocks for him and all of the rocks were there.

They lined, you know, my garden now. And anyhow, it, it was, it was tremendous. But getting through that first two weeks, you need support. You can't get through that alone. I just don't think you can. I had the grief counselor being very prescriptive, I would say about, here's what you should do next. For the service.

You need a friend. You need someone [00:36:00] to identify when you're overwhelmed and you need a break away. And, and I, I appointed my best friend for that. And POW's services, there were over a thousand people that attended his memorial. 

[00:36:15] Chandler Stroud: Wow. Jodi, 

[00:36:16] Jodi: it was, the funeral home was very overwhelmed. They ended up opening up every room they had, and they televised from the main room that I was in.

And then it was standing room only through every hallway. So you wanna talk about [00:36:30] overwhelming, like, I, I didn't see more than maybe a quarter of the people that were there, you know? It was, it was very extensive. They had. Like a secret room for me to go sit in. They had a secret passageway that they had me go through, so I could, I wouldn't have to walk through a crowd.

It was overwhelming. And if I hadn't been told, Hey, appoint someone to decide when you need a break and they're going to push you into the break room. And I was so grateful I [00:37:00] had that, I needed that really badly. So getting through that, I was talking to the grief counselor every day at that point, and a lot of her coaching was around really taking the day, sometimes only five minutes at a time.

So it is just like, okay, I'm, I'm just gonna breathe. I'm just gonna sit here right now. I'm not gonna think about any of the minutes after the next five. I'm just gonna think about these five and I'm gonna put on the real housewives of [00:37:30] wherever and drain my brain and try to sit and, and for a long time, like I could only last five minutes before.

You know, just a break. Another breakdown. Another breakdown. And I had like busted blood vessels in my eyes and I had bruises on the backs of my eyelids from all the crying. And it was, it was an intense, very intense, you know, first month for sure. 

[00:37:58] Chandler Stroud: Was there a [00:38:00] moment that, whether weeks, months, even years later, that you decided you wanted to go on a more intensive healing journey?

Or was that a slow process for you? 

[00:38:11] Jodi: I'd say it was a slow burn. It was, it took. Probably about nine months for me. And that's of, I continued, I did the grief counseling twice a week. I joined a support group for parents who have lost children in all different ways. And that's a monthly group. [00:38:30] So I was doing some things like that.

I was doing sound baths. You know, when you hit that kind of bottom, you're like, I will try absolutely anything. And things I had previously been afraid to try, I'm like, I don't care. Like, take me, take me. If it kills me, take me. I, I just you get to that place where you, it's not that you yourself are considering self harm, it's more that, okay, if a car hit me, I'm okay with that today.

Like, I'm okay. Like if it, if something took me out. [00:39:00] It's fine. And I had these, you know, two other little kids, right, that wanted Christmas and wanted Halloween and wanted, you know, wanted all the things and, and I was just trying to make things as normal for them. So honestly, like those first nine months were such survival months.

A lot of people in my shoes say they can't remember a lot of the first year at all. I imagine. I can remember it. But it was, you know, I crawled through it. I definitely crawled through it and I would say [00:39:30] around the nine month mark, I was starting to have feelings of like, okay, I think there's more for me to try than the things I've been trying.

Right. And I happened to run across, honestly, you know. I say habitudes, not a coincidence. I, you know, I don't believe anymore. All of these things most definitely happen on purpose. And I became aware of Katie's happy camp and, and I'm like, what is [00:40:00] this thing? And who's she? 

[00:40:03] Chandler Stroud: You know? 

[00:40:04] Jodi: And so I had heard it like on a podcast, you know, it was through Teddy, Teddy Camp who I know Chandler, you know, you were connected with as well.

And I had heard her talking about it and I thought, Hmm, that might be a thing. And I Googled it and I'm like, whoa, this is like an amazing thing. And, and I thought, okay, could I do this? All of a sudden, like when you're [00:40:30] really at that point of like that depth, the support system you have really gets big around you.

And, and maybe three years before that, I never would've been comfortable saying to even my partner right at the time, Hey I'm gonna take off for four days and can you just watch my kids and take them to every activity and make sure they do their homework and make sure they take their medication.

Like I never even would've thought about doing it. And then that was the first time where I thought, I'm outta here, like I'm gonna go do this thing. [00:41:00] I, and I signed up pretty quickly thereafter. And I just decided to go along 

[00:41:06] Chandler Stroud: one. I'm very impressed you did that because I do think that that's probably a hurdle for a lot of people in general to just go on a vacation by themselves where they know there'll be other people they haven't met.

So especially given the place you were in, I think it's really commendable that you made that leap of faith and signed up. Obviously, so [00:41:30] much Good has come from that first visit to happy camp. Yeah. But I'm curious, what struck you right away? What was different about working with Katie and maybe surprised you about the process?

Oh God. Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:43] Jodi: There was just so many beautiful, beautiful things. I would say the depth of meditation and the power of Katie's meditation and what she walks you through, and then how the follow on exercises. [00:42:00] Right. Blew my mind. Most definitely were absolutely life changing for me, coming out of that very first happy camp.

So we're there for, you know what, Katie, three and a half days, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Three and a half days. And I, first, I, I was happy to be alone. I, I didn't like being around people anymore. It really changed me socially, this loss. And I avoided most of the places I was. I used to [00:42:30] go. I didn't wanna be around others, not because I didn't care for them.

It, it was like, I don't, I didn't have the tolerance for weird, neutral chitchat and people complaining about things that were not even on my radar to complain about anymore. That was hard. I didn't feel like I had a tolerance that much. Overhearing thing. Conversations about other people's kids would make me cry.

I just didn't wanna be around other people. So it was kind of the most beautiful thing that I'm like, wait a minute, I can go on this thing. I can go completely [00:43:00] by myself. Which means if I just wanna be the asshole sitting in the absolute back of the room that talks to absolutely nobody, and everybody says, gosh, he seems like a real asshole.

Like, what's the story with that girl? Didn't care. Like even better, because that meant you weren't gonna ever try to talk to me. That would be fantastic, right? Better for my plan. And it had a full agenda. It told me everywhere I was gonna be. It told me when I was eating it told me when I was going to bed, and I'm like, [00:43:30] this is the best thing ever.

I made zero decisions. I don't know anybody. I don't have to chitchat with anybody if I don't wanna, if I don't wanna sit in a room and eat with a group, I could go eat my food in my hotel room. I did not have to be with anyone ever. And I just, I loved the idea that I could be completely anonymous. Which I mean I'm sure Katie freaking laughs at now 'cause I'm practically the mascot of Of Happy camp.

Yeah. 

[00:43:54] Chandler Stroud: Truly. And I can actually advocate for that too, or support that because every time I have been [00:44:00] happy camp in the last two, you are literally side by side with Katie handing out your aroma wellness. Products, the room smells like lavender and beautiful things and you're standing up and talking about your business.

I mean, you are like the second face of Happy camp. 

[00:44:15] Jodi: Yes, 100%. Yeah. It really went from zero to 60 for me on that. So yeah, I expected to be totally anonymous and, and honestly, Katie, I'm gonna blame your parents for my journey because the first meal we [00:44:30] had as a group, I ended up sitting at their table and I was just chitchatting with them before I realized they were Katie's parents.

And they were just so lovely and they asked so many questions and they were inquisitive and like so thoughtful about their answers. I'm like, oh, these people are actually very lovely to talk to. And so I talked to them. And then after that it's like, you know, we started to feel more and more like family.

It was really funny. And now I'm like, they are my family. Yeah. And I get jealous when they go places without me. Like I'm supposed to be there, like the adopted adults, you know, they're [00:45:00] always 

[00:45:00] Katie Wee: asking about Jody, how's Jody? How's Jody? You're like their other daughter. I will love it. I'll take it too. Oh yes, I'll take it.

[00:45:08] Jodi: But yes, when I think about like the biggest impact coming out, it was 100% the meditations that Katie creates and what she has you walk through. And then the follow up exercises of being asked deeper questions, right? Beyond what you experienced in your meditation. And part of it [00:45:30] also is feeling it for yourself that when you really get to the depth that she's guiding you to, if, if you are there to be open, 'cause you have nothing else to lose like I did, your consciousness does answer you and.

It's freaky when it starts to happen. And you know, she guides you through that, like to listen for it. And part of what I think opened me to that and why it was successful for me pretty [00:46:00] quickly was because I had already learned how to do that with my son after he passed away. Hmm. Chandler, I know, you know, you've got lots of other heroes who specialize in a lot of these things as well and you know, mediums, et cetera, who are very connected to the spiritual world.

And when you have a deep like kinetic loss like that, there really is something in the universal energy that shifts around you and you learn at truly a soul [00:46:30] level that. He is not here physically, so I don't get to hug him and mess with his hair or whatever. But he is so still here. There's like, you know, through these other dimensions of energy that we live within.

He is so here and we are still very connected. And I would ask him things and he would tell me, he would tell me things and, and the things he couldn't tell me, he would show me and they would come to me in dreams and things. So I arrived at [00:47:00] Happy Camp, having experiences with asking and listening and actually getting answers and feeling really comforted, but also like a depth of integrity in what I was hearing.

Like it really, it never felt like my own subconscious, like parroting something to me that I just wanted to hear it. It always felt different. And when I got into meditations with Katie, I just felt. I could fall into them pretty quickly [00:47:30] and be guided, you know, really effectively by her, through her amazing techniques.

And, and that really got me to depths of questions for myself to really unearth, you know, some of the dirt, dirt, 

[00:47:44] Chandler Stroud: Jodi, that's so beautifully said, and such an incredible way to understand healing after loss through that kind of energy that continues to exist. Mm-hmm. Like, it's really so profound and [00:48:00] such an incredible way to think about how your day-to-day felt after that and what you learned to do in terms of dropping within and really asking those questions and hearing answers.

So, I mean, just, wow. Thank you for sharing that. I have to kind of turn the mic over to Katie for a second. Katie. Hi. Hi. And ask you. What, I'm just curious, what did you notice about Jodi early on that you [00:48:30] wanted to help her reconnect with based on just, you know, maybe the limited interaction you had had at that first happy camp, for example.

I'm just very intrigued to hear more about your first impression. 

[00:48:40] Katie Wee: Yeah, I'm too, I can't wait to hear this. Oh, well, not surprisingly to anyone listening or viewing. If you're watching the video, Jodi is a light. Jodi enters the room and she just lights it up. There are certain people who just carry that energy and you can't, it's funny to be that you [00:49:00] wanted to come and be anonymous because I'm like, fat chance, like Jodi is tall and blonde and beautiful, and there's this luminescence, this joy that exudes out of you despite everything you've been through.

There is just this inc. Incredible power coming through Jodi. The first time you really shared extensively was after we did a meditation about our future, envisioning our future. 

[00:49:23] Jodi: Oh, I remember that meditation. Oh, you remember? 

[00:49:25] Katie Wee: Yeah. 

[00:49:26] Jodi: It's a haunting one. 

[00:49:27] Katie Wee: Yeah. And you've done it so many times [00:49:30] since and had different experiences and it, but the first time it needed to be that it needed to be what it was.

And it it allowed Jodi, Jodi was, if I'm, you can correct me if I'm misrepresenting what you felt, but what I remember is that you were envisioning your future and it was so sad for you because P wasn't there. Yeah. And you were crying when you were sharing about how you, you were letting your grief out.

And we were in a room of 47 women and men, and something happened in the room where [00:50:00] everything went quiet and everything got still, and everyone, it was like they extended their heart to you and, i'm sure you had felt that at different times, but I'm sure the service was so overwhelming and support comes in waves and sometimes you're not ready for it and sometimes you're not open.

So you, your receiving of it is limited. But in this case, your heart was wide open and you were feeling what you were feeling [00:50:30] and everyone's heart went to you and everyone gave their compassion to you. And it was, to this day, one of the most beautiful things that's ever happened at Happy Camp because I truly believe, and this is a huge reason why I created Happy Camp, that we have to heal collectively that so much healing work can be done individually.

I've done a lot of that too, but at a certain point, you need to be witnessed. You need to have your pain witnessed and you need to feel heart to heart. That [00:51:00] feeling. You can feel that you're not alone. And those experiences in my life have been tremendously healing for me and had helped me see myself differently.

And I'm hoping that even in this conversation, as you're hearing yourself talk, you're kind of going, whoa. Because as any listener can hear, and Chandler knows, just from knowing Jodi, you're incredibly strong. And every time I meet a woman, I am so impressed by how much we bear [00:51:30] and how much we get through, and often how little credit we give ourselves.

Women can be so hard on ourselves. I'm right there with all of us. You know, we are, we can be just like, so, like we give ourselves a C when we deserve an a plus and we don't count all the extra credit points, and we go above and beyond and think it's the bare minimum. And there was just this incredible power coming through you of like, this is a powerful woman.[00:52:00] 

And. Also this feeling that I could feel that you were in the phase of your healing at that first happy camp where it was so perfect that you were there and it was so perfect. I hate to say that you were triggered in that way because some people would say like, you should never be triggered. But I think triggers are a part of life and like that, that opened you up and that you could receive that.

'cause I wanted you to feel and the love and support you deserved. And I think sometimes from my own personal experience and noticing this with clients, [00:52:30] we cannot move on to heal ourselves until we felt everything we need to feel. And healing goes in waves and it's circular, not linear. It's like an upward spiral.

So some we're back, we're like, I was just here three years ago. What happened? I thought it was passes like, but you needed to. Let all of that grief out and it needed to be held by the room. And you needed to feel this community of people that were there for you, even though they were total [00:53:00] strangers. Because I do believe that we are all one, we are all connected.

And that when one of us hurts, all of us hurt. And when one of us heals, all of us heal. And you bringing that into the space allowed everyone to be along your, your journey and for them to feel open and welcome to feel what they were feeling. And it opened up a whole new level of vulnerability and intimacy in, in the weekend.

And I just was blown away by you and [00:53:30] wanted to do everything I could do to be a healing force in your life. 

[00:53:34] Jodi: Hmm. Thank you Katie. 

[00:53:39] Chandler Stroud: That was also so beautiful. And I feel like even though I wasn't present at that happy camp, having been to Sedona and Mexico, now I can absolutely. Feel what it was like to be in that room and visualize that moment.

And Jody, I think you just, what a gift that must have been for everyone to have you open up like that Aw. And share [00:54:00] and help everyone else kind of be there with you. So, yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. 

[00:54:06] Jodi: Thanks. Yeah. I when I look back on that moment and that experience, right, of that meditation coming out of it and crying through the meditation, and then just not being able to, you know, hold it in ultimately.

And sharing it with the group.

I guess how, what my soul kind of [00:54:30] took from that was that when, when you have this immense grief, like what I was experiencing, it's like. The universe tells you this isn't meant for you to just shoulder with you and maybe your, you know, spouse and maybe your best friend and maybe your mom, right? Like, this is a thing and, and this thing probably means a room of 50 for [00:55:00] you to let it out and, and let it have a soft fall if, 

[00:55:05] Chandler Stroud: if 

[00:55:05] Jodi: that makes 

[00:55:06] Chandler Stroud: sense.

Mm-hmm. It absolutely makes sense. And I love that you're making that point because even on the show, we've talked with Reverend Lizzie before about how grief needs community. That was a lesson that Candace in our previous episode also shared and felt really transformed her journey was letting others in.

Yes. And sharing the pain. So I think it's a really [00:55:30] important through line and piece of advice for anyone else that has grief. So much grief, they don't know what to do with it all. So thank you for sharing that. How, Katie, one one. One more question for you and then I would love to hand it over so you can ask Jodi one or two questions that you may have.

But was there a shift in language or thought that you think made the biggest impact for Jodi as you guys were working together? 

[00:55:58] Katie Wee: Hmm. [00:56:00] This is kind of like a shift in thought, shift in way of thinking and feeling, but we started coaching together one-on-one after Happy Camp, and it's always been such a joy.

Every time I have Jodi on my schedule, I'm like, yay. Get to see Jodi. And Jodi came into our sessions right away with these things. She wanted to create, she wanted to create her business. She wanted to get it off the ground. And I knew I could feel that putting this energy into aroma wellness, out of love for P because so much of the product, the products that you create were the same types of [00:56:30] products that helped you in those deep moments of grief when you couldn't imagine getting into the shower.

Yeah. When you couldn't imagine getting outta bed. Yeah. But aromatherapy, the idea of having it smell good, of have, be able to find that moment of peace. You wanted to share that with other people. You wanted to give that. Peace to those who needed it the most. And it was so beautiful. It was so born out of just pure love and desire to share and desire to help.

And I could feel, yes, let's go. Let's do this. Let's get this going. [00:57:00] And we always, were working on, you know, moving aroma forward and now Aroma exists out in the world and has all these incredible partnerships and people love it. I love it. It's absolutely incredible. And so that's one gigantic accomplishment.

But along the way of pushing Aroma Forward, we also ended up getting into how we feel, how we think, how we are living our life day to day, what is driving our behavior. And I think that for so long, life had been survival mode for you, understandably so, surviving. You [00:57:30] were getting through so much of your childhood, you were getting through being a single parent you were getting through.

Managing the aftermath of your son's suicide. You were, you've been getting through so much of life. You had been living in survival mode for so long that it didn't feel like there was another alternative. And I think a lot of us end up in this place for various reasons, whether it's, you know, a series of many traumatic events, or [00:58:00] it is constant stress and just being addicted to it.

Our fast-paced culture really encourages that. And I think that that's very counter intuitive to the female body. We are cyclical in nature. We need rest. We go in spurts. We are tremendously powerful, but we are not meant to be on overdrive all the time. Living on survival mode means that you're living with cortisol, pumping through your system.

You're living in a hormonal state that's meant to last an hour, not years, not decades. [00:58:30] And at a certain point, I can't really pinpoint exactly when it happened. I feel like we started going from okay, rather than just surviving. What about really living? Because like you mentioned that time when you felt like if a bus just took me out, it would be okay.

There are times, and I've been there too, in the depths of depression, when you just feel like I'm just barely living. I'm just getting through. I am just trying to [00:59:00] get to the next five minutes. And then once you've done a little bit more healing work and you've come, come out of the deepest part of the dark cave, you start to realize that there's other ways to live.

And that if you're gonna be here, if you're gonna do this thing, you might as well make it what you want it to be. And you started to realize that there's choice. There's choice in how we create our life. There's choice in how you live and when you started to realize the choices you had and how you think, how you live.[00:59:30] 

Oh my gosh. To see where your life is now compared to a few years ago. Yeah. It's like, Jodi, you've opened up so different. So much joy. Yeah. So much fulfillment. So much happiness. We're never fully healed. We, we never will. That's not the goal. We're not gonna get enlightened and be like done with problems.

I'm post problems, you know, but, but can we in the meantime, while we're living, choose the life we wanna live and you have chosen the life you wanna live, and you've done it consciously by rewiring your [01:00:00] mindset, by changing your patterns, your behaviors, you've made also big shifts in your life. And to, to watch you come back into your joy and to come back into feeling alive and motivated and purposeful.

And that doesn't mean that's how it is, 24 7, but watching that for you has been. Such a blessing for me, so inspiring. And it's just, it's like I've watched you bloom. Yeah, I feel like that. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:00:28] Chandler Stroud: I love hearing that, [01:00:30] Jody, on that note, what does life feel like now for you? How does day, how do you feel day to day, longer term?

If you take a step back and look at where you are versus where you were? 

[01:00:40] Jodi: I feel very free. And free doesn't mean without fear. Right. You know, there, there's always a little bit of fear with taking next big steps with any, you know, risks you might take. So being free doesn't mean free from all the negative feelings and emotions.

Right. But I am, I feel very free [01:01:00] to live in flow and that is something that Katie has taught me so much about. And, i, I go to the beach a lot. That's sort of my safe, happy place. And I used to joke with people how much I love being down there because the only thing that set my schedule was the tide.

Whether it was high tide or low tide. That's how I planned my day because I wanted to go shelling or I wanted to go kite surfing. And you know, certain tides mean that's what I can do at that time. And the rest of the day just unfolded. And I loved [01:01:30] that. And I really feel like I live that every day now.

And sometimes that means I'm having a really difficult low day. And from Katie's coaching, I've really learned like, that's okay, except that and feel it. Don't try to wish it away. My grief counselor talks through the same thing, you know. Just let it be and it just, it's going to be for that day and that's okay.

And the flow will come back and it does. But it took me [01:02:00] a while, maybe a full year, you know, and that's assuming I'm there. I'm not fully there yet. But it took me a long time to really trust that the flow will return. Because when it would go, I'd fall back into that old mindset of like, well, here it is.

Right here it is. End of the road. You know, I was all happy and things are going great and now I have no energy and I just slept off the day and I'm depressed and this and that and I'm crying. And I felt like, well, okay, start over again. Right. And, and it [01:02:30] really isn't that, it's so just moving with the flow and letting the emotions come and go, and knowing when to ask for help.

Right. Emotionally as well. Knowing when I needed an extra session with my grief counselor or when I needed to talk to Katie a little sooner or when I needed to talk to my spouse or whatever it might be. So I think there was a big. Piece of that as well. But really feeling free to experience the flow in my life.

And I see how much different my productivity [01:03:00] is in what comes out of me, because I'm doing it when I'm feeling it. It's like, yeah, stuff that if I had forced it for five, you know, five hours and when I, when it's really ready to come out, it comes out in an hour. Right. And that experience has been very transformative as well.

But it does require, it requires the trust. 

[01:03:22] Chandler Stroud: Yeah, trust is obviously Katie. We've talked a lot about that on the show too. It's a big deal. It's a big deal and it's required. [01:03:30] Katie, I wanna give you a chance to ask Jodi any questions you might have. Is there anything you're curious about as you're listening to her talk?

[01:03:37] Katie Wee: Yeah, I mean, I'm so amazed by you, Jodi, to just hear you speak the way you're speaking. I'm really seeing even from another dimension how much you have really taken this healing and run with it. And what are some of the things that you learned through me or your grief counselor or happy camp or life that have helped you [01:04:00] get from where you were to where you are?

Like how did you become this incredible human being that you are and how did you overcome so much of what was really, really hard for you? 

[01:04:12] Jodi: Oh, yeah, that there's a few things, you know, that come to mind. The meditations that you've. Worked with me have been really instrumental. You know, when you coach with Katie, they're all tailored to you.

She's not reading something off the internet. She, she has this [01:04:30] incredible gift that I really didn't believe at first. I'm like, she Googled that she did that, but no, like, it's inside Katie and it's completely tailored to the conversation that, that you, you just had and whatnot, and what you're struggling with.

So I would say those types of guided meditations and follow-up questions were hugely helpful. Hugely. I think working through grief with a grief counselor is [01:05:00] huge. The way I describe what I get from Katie to people, because I'll tell them and they're like, I don't know how you're doing it. I'm like, well, a, I don't have a choice.

I have two other kids. I gotta be here. I said, b. I got, you know, my heroes like Chandler, right? So I have, you know, an amazing grief counselor. I said, but I also, I do mindset coaching every, every month and people will say, you know, well, what do you do there? Like, what's different? What do you do there that you're not doing in grief [01:05:30] counseling or other counseling?

Like, no, I said, the grief counseling is really guiding me on this grief specific journey of how do I get through certain days or certain situations, and how do I process some of the feelings? Said this mindset coaching has taught me how to feel joy again. So that is very different. So when you think about grief counseling, it is a hand that is holding you through the grief journey that you have to go through.

That [01:06:00] never ends. You know what, what we say in our group is, you know, grief has a beginning. It has a middle, but it doesn't have an end. And, and when I think about the work that I do through mindset coaching specifically, it has helped me convince myself again, that life can be joyful and life can be worth living and not just existing.

And it took a while to get there, but that's what this type of one-on-one [01:06:30] coaching or happy camp and those types of experiences will bring. For you. They're hugely important. And not to minimize the sound baths, 'cause I do those and I do the hot yoga. You know, I, I follow my prescription, right? Like I exercise, I do the things.

[01:06:44] Chandler Stroud: But yes, Jody, we love all of those things here. 

[01:06:48] Jodi: Yes, the hot yoga, I love it. But when I think about what really created the step change, you know, I would say it's for sure. The guided meditations and the [01:07:00] exercise work after that, prioritizing joy and understanding that it's an attainable thing again, like it, it, it is a thing I can once again experience.

And I'll tell you, I did not believe that to be true for at least a year after meeting Katie and working with Katie and going to probably three Happy Camps at that point, I think by the third Happy Camp, I started to believe it, that it could maybe possibly be true, that I could be happy, you know, while carrying grief.

Because you will, you know, you're [01:07:30] gonna carry it forever. 

[01:07:30] Katie Wee: So. Beautiful. Thank you, Jody. I think that's so, 

[01:07:33] Jodi: yeah. 

[01:07:34] Katie Wee: Incredible because like we know everything exists, every emotion exists. The polarity is what creates life, and grief and joy can coexist. It seems so weird. Yes. To feel that and to know that, but they sort of have to, because like you said, grief will never fully be gone.

But that doesn't mean that joy can't also be there. And that they're, they're two sides of the same coin. They're, they're bedfellows. They might seem like opposites, but [01:08:00] the deeper we feel, the grief. The higher we're able to really experience the joy. It's like the, those little moments, like after your first happy camp when you checked into that hotel and Yeah.

Will you tell, will you just tell some of the signs that Oh, that the joy you felt from them? 

[01:08:18] Jodi: Crazy. So, yeah. Another part of the childhood story, right? Dad was married before Dad was married to my mom and dad had two other children and they were older than my sister and [01:08:30] I by about 15 years and didn't know about us, but we had, so I've learned, but we knew about them and I had kind of always been curious and eventually ended up with a DNA match, right on Ancestry.

And don't, you know, one of them lived in Phoenix. So I went out to Sedona for Happy Camp and that exact same visit, I met my half-sister, one of them for the first time. And I therefore was staying in a hotel overnight in Phoenix. And I got there and they're like. [01:09:00] You know what, you were the lucky winner that was drawn that you're a Marriott, you know, rewards person, and now you get bumped up to a suite with a snack and I'm like.

Well, okay. That doesn't happen to me. Said, and you just said earlier that day, I 

[01:09:14] Katie Wee: never win things. I never win anything I 

[01:09:17] Jodi: had. And the T-shirt. Yes. Yes. So, so yes. So I get to my room, it's gorgeous. There's this humongous platter of like amazing Mexican food. I'm like, oh, this is my snack. Like I'm golden.

And, and then yeah, I go out [01:09:30] to dinner with my half-sister and she is wearing a purple T-shirt, which is my son's favorite color and also my branding color for aroma wellness boutique because of him. And it had the Van Gogh starry night on her t-shirt, which is the poster that hangs over his bed.

And I just said, whoa, like that's crazy. And then I'm sitting and she has her back against the wall and I look, 'cause she chose a sushi [01:10:00] restaurant. Of all things. So we end up at the sushi restaurant and behind her is a painting of Mount Fuji as, whoa, like, this is really crazy. And they were just so many of these little things that were adding up.

And I did, I think I texted you, Katie, or I emailed you after Happy Camp. I'm like, the craziest things have been happening to me, you know, since then. And look at what this beautiful universe like brought to me just in the 24 hours since I've left [01:10:30] Sedona. So. Mm-hmm. It's amazing. 

[01:10:32] Katie Wee: Yeah. It's like the capacity to feel joy and the capacity to feel grief, like they go hand in hand and watching you experience the low lows and the high highs over the past few years has been beautiful.

And I'm just so, so proud of you. 

[01:10:46] Jodi: Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I wouldn't have done it without my supportive collective. Mm-hmm. Of which you are so key. So I am so grateful. The universe, you know, brought me to, to both of you. It's been amazing. 

[01:10:59] Chandler Stroud: [01:11:00] I second that to be second. That Katie, before we end, for anyone listening who feels stuck in their grief or even just self-doubt, what's one mindset shift that they can start practicing today to feel better?

[01:11:15] Katie Wee: To listen, to listen to yourself? Like Jodi was saying, that so much of her healing came from the meditations where you learn how to tap into the voice of your soul and you're, your, the voice of your soul is always talking to [01:11:30] you. It's just a matter of if we can get quiet enough to hear it, and you have a force of intelligence inside of you that is so much more powerful, more brilliant, more capable than anything outside of you.

And when you learn how to just listen, just listen to yourself. Just get quiet, just hear the whispers of your heart. Just go in the direction that you're feeling intuitively called. When you do that, you open up unlimited possibility within [01:12:00] yourself. I don't think I, I never thought I would be where I am right now in terms of my own healing journey.

I think both of you would probably say there were times in your past you thought you didn't know you could be this version of you. Mm-hmm. That intelligence within you is always guiding you towards the highest manifestation of you, the most aligned version, the version that's free of the, the doubt, the fear, the, the energetic clutter that you may have picked up along the way.

And that version of you is, [01:12:30] is waiting to birth itself, but it, it wants you to just listen. So wherever you are in your journey, if you've been used to kind of shutting off that voice, if you've been used to ignoring it, looking outside yourself to everyone else for all the answers, like, just tune in because you know.

Everything. And you have all the keys for your own healing, your own happiness, and ultimately your own success. Personal success can only be defined by, by you, by what you deeply want, and you [01:13:00] can be where you want to be. I think all three of us are a testament to that, always a work in progress. But my gosh, do we all have a lot to be proud of in terms of where we were and where we are.

So just truly an honor to be, to be with both of you and to get to work with both of you and be a part of your lives so deeply inspired by your, your power and your beauty. 

[01:13:24] Chandler Stroud: Thank you for saying that, Katie. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Right back at you, by the way. 

[01:13:27] Katie Wee: Yeah. Thank you. [01:13:30] 

[01:13:31] Chandler Stroud: Jody, let's end on you. What's, what would you say to someone who feels maybe broken beyond repair right now?

Is there, or even a truth or mantra that carried you through some of your darkest days? 

[01:13:42] Jodi: Yeah. Well, let's see. I'd say there's probably two things. First, you know, change is the only constant, right? And so it's hard to believe it when you're that low, but it's not going to last forever. It will lighten up.

It will. [01:14:00] And it's something I said in my eulogy for my son, 'cause I was speaking to all the teenagers that were there that day of listen, you know, there's not a single person in the room who can say they don't regret something in their life that they did, that maybe they didn't feel good about. And that's not a reason.

You know, to, to beat yourself down to such a place that you might not wanna be here anymore. You know, we've all, [01:14:30] we've all done things we didn't like, but there's always a next chapter. There's always a next chapter, and it's just sometimes need help turning that page. That's all. It's all it is. You just sometimes need help.

And even when you don't care if the page gets turned, the people around you will help you turn it. And sometimes it's just having to say that it's like, God, please just turn this page for me because I don't even have the will. You know, just help me get to the place where I have the will. [01:15:00] And, and sometimes it's a hard place to get to depending on what you're processing and what you've been through, you know?

It's tough. So, but it won't last forever. You know? The highs come and go, but the lows come and go too. So, that's one thing to always, to always cherish, I suppose you won't be in either place forever. 

[01:15:22] Chandler Stroud: Thank you both for your honesty, your courage, and your willingness to let us witness this part of your [01:15:30] story, something that's so raw and so personal.

For those listening today. If something in you stirred during this episode, please don't ignore it. Let it open you. That would be my ask. Healing may not be linear, but it is possible and to Jodi's beautiful point that she made earlier, you never have to do it alone. There are so many ways to do it in community with others and to find that support and so encourage you to think [01:16:00] about it that way to the extent you can.

But thank you both for being here. I really appreciate it. 

[01:16:04] Jodi: Thank you, Chandler. 

[01:16:06] Chandler Stroud: Before we close out this episode, I do want to make a quick plug for Jodi's amazing company, aroma Wellness Boutique. She donates 5% of all her profits to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and is offering our listeners 20% off through Columbus Day weekend with the Code Heroes [01:16:30] 20.

You can learn more about Aroma Wellness and shop@aromawellnessboutique.com or give her a count of follow on Instagram at Aroma Wellness Boutique, all one word. Thanks for listening, everyone, and as always, remember, be curious, be courageous, and be kind to yourself. You've got this.