Outpacing Your Partner's Growth: Human Design and Relationships

Human Design Coach and Hero Zach Carlsen returns to explore a common but rarely discussed dynamic: what happens when one partner is deeply committed to personal growth while the other moves at a different pace (and that pace could be slower or completely static)? Zach and Chandler unpack how human design can offer language, clarity, and compassion around emotional intelligence, energy differences, and relationship tension, all without blame or force. 

If you've been experiencing transformative growth and healing but feel like your partner is "falling behind," Zach explains how learning to invite your partner to grow rather than demand it can make all the difference in your relationship.

What You Will Learn

• [08:32] How emotional, spiritual, and mental growth can create an unspoken imbalance in long-term relationships
• [09:27] Why many women begin craving deeper emotional intelligence as they progress in their healing work
• [12:03] The common misconception that outgrowing a partner automatically means a relationship is broken
• [14:27] How human design offers a practical framework for understanding energy differences without resentment
• [16:54] Why knowing your partner’s design can soften frustration around rest, consistency, and follow-through
• [18:27] The importance of giving yourself permission to grow without shrinking for relational comfort
• [30:07] The difference between inviting a partner into growth and unconsciously trying to force change
• [42:00] Why your healing journey belongs to you—and how leading by example can be more powerful than persuasion

Let’s Connect!

Zach Carlsen

Website | Instagram

Chandler Stroud

Website | Instagram | LinkedIn 

Mixing, editing, and show notes provided by Next Day Podcast.

Transcript

Chandler Stroud: [00:00:00] Hey guys, it's Chandler and welcome to The Healing Heroes. I promise you.

I'm Chandler Stroud, an executive wife and busy mom of two who after years of living with anxiety. Health struggles and an unshakeable feeling like I should be happier, made a profound discovery that changed everything. Join me on a journey where unexpected paths lead to [00:00:30] healing and more happiness. On this show, we will explore unconventional ways to unlock more joy in your own life with the help of my very own healers.

And trusted advisors, the healing heroes.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Healing Heroes podcast. I'm your host Chandler, and I am so happy to be joined again by our hero and human design expert, Zach [00:01:00] Carlson. Today we are talking about something. I know so many women in this community are navigating what it looks like to stay committed to your own growth.

When your partner may be on a different timeline, and how human design can help bring understanding, compassion, and clarity to those dynamics without force or blame. Before we dive in, here's a quick refresher on Zach's background for our new listeners joining us [00:01:30] today. Zach Carlson has been coaching and educating professionally for the last decade.

The core and foundation of his work is human design, a modern science containing ancient systems for exploring the nature of being. He holds advanced academic degrees in pedagogy, literature, and French, as well as CER certifications from Gallup, Inc. In Clifton Strengths coaching and SSC in human design coaching.

In 2021, he obtained his [00:02:00] master coach certification from Elementum Coaching Institute. Zach, it is so good to have you back on the show with us today. Thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited to dive into this topic with you. 

Zach Carlsen: I've been looking forward to this for weeks, Chandler. 

Chandler Stroud: I love hearing that.

And you know, I'm gonna be really transparent with our audience for a second. Like often I feel like we brainstorm ideas or I'll go off and brainstorm ideas and send them through to the heroes and be like, how are you feeling about this? Are you passionate about this? But this [00:02:30] idea today came from Zach.

He proactively emailed me and was like. I think we need to talk about this. It's so important. I see this happening across so many of the clients I'm working with in my own day-to-day work, so can we do an episode on it? And I was like, yes, yes, yes. I love this topic first off, and secondly, I love your passion around it.

So I know today's gonna be a great conversation and thank you, Zach, for bringing this one to everyone's attention. 

Zach Carlsen: Yeah, yeah. Honored and I. [00:03:00] Come with this because I would say about half of the clients who I work with who are women experience exactly what we're geared up to explore today, which is this phenomena where they're.

Outgrowing emotionally, spiritually, mentally, in some ways their partner. And it creates this real dilemma. And so a chance to unpack that and explore it here with you, because even though it's pretty pervasive, I don't see a lot of [00:03:30] conversations happening specifically around this. 

Chandler Stroud: Yeah, no, I'm sure.

Because it's like, I think to initiate that conversation, you have to admit. Displeasure discomfort. Like something is wrong in my relationship. And I think it's really hard to admit that to ourselves sometimes, let alone another person you can talk it through with. 

Zach Carlsen: Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's nuances of it too, like this feeling of like, if we're outgrowing our partner, like we might feel [00:04:00] guilty about it or feel wrong, or like we're gonna be punished for doing this deep in our work.

And it just gets messy and confusing fast. 

Chandler Stroud: Yeah. Yeah, I can see how it would, I really could. Zach, for listeners who are newer or missed our earlier episodes together, can you just give a quick, again, brief overview of what human design is and how it's typically used? Just so that everyone has the same level of understanding as we talk about how this can apply to personal growth and the topic at hand today.[00:04:30] 

Zach Carlsen: Absolutely. Human design is an astrology based blueprint that's specific to you, meaning if there's 8 billion people on our planet, there's 8 billion different designs, and that blueprint is simply a roadmap and how to live your life. In alignment. We hear that word alignment a lot in healing circles, and I sometimes ask myself like, what does it mean?

And human design helps [00:05:00] us see how we can live in alignment with our natural energy flow, both physical, but mental and emotional, and how we can make decisions like from an inner authority in a way that is. Reliable, sustainable, and consistent in terms of bringing our life and bringing the experiences into our life that we want most 

Chandler Stroud: beautifully explained.

Zach, thank you so much for grounding the audience in that definition. Before we dive into the conversation today, when someone [00:05:30] first starts exploring human design, what kinds of questions are they usually hoping it will answer? 

Zach Carlsen: People often come to human design first because they're curious about purpose.

They're curious about whether or not they're on the right path. They're aware that there's like something invisible in the universe or in the world that can be measured somehow, that can be [00:06:00] experimented with, but they don't know how to access that. And that invisible force, I think is the electromagnetic phenomenon that creates, like our auras.

It's filled with information, but it's not like gigabytes of information. It's in, it's in an electromagnetic field. And if you're rolling your eyes at that, I totally get it. I was such a skeptic. I was such a like, straightforward, kind of macho dummy, and [00:06:30] because I, my mind was closed to anything that, that I couldn't.

Kind of prove with a Western scientific mind and human design. I mean, I think people also come to it just 'cause they're curious. This system has so many different aspects to it that are just fascinating to explore. But what I'm most interested in is the application. How can we take the data that we learn and apply it to our lives, to better ourselves, our relationships, our communities?

Chandler Stroud: Well, I know you've done that for yourself and so many others in [00:07:00] spades. My, again, myself and even my husband included, like we've loved learning our designs and you can go so deep. I mean, we've only scratched the surface on ours, but it's such a cool, really. Relevant and applicable way to understand yourself on a deeper level.

To your point, I think you can really integrate the learnings into your day-to-day, which I know you're super passionate about in your work. And what we're actually is a great segue into what we're talking about today. So, Zach. [00:07:30] In your coaching work, how often do you see situations where one partner is perhaps actively doing inner work and the other is not, or perhaps just isn't doing it in the same way as your client?

Zach Carlsen: I work with 10 people at a time throughout the year, and I would say on any given day, 50% of the clients that I'm working with are experiencing or dealing with exactly what we're talking about today. Them being. In [00:08:00] a way kind of moving beyond emotionally the capacity of their partner. It's not common that someone will come to me specifically to work on that, but inside of the first call or two, it gets revealed that like there's this unsatisfying dynamic playing out for them that maybe didn't have a name, and together we name it first.

Without judgment, without pointing a finger, without, I'm better. They're worse, but we just [00:08:30] name that there's this unsatisfying dynamic playing out. In the relationship where questions like, I wonder if this is all there is come up. Couples been together for 20 years and things kind of plateau and this question, and for a lot of my clients, it's terrifying.

Like they look around at their relationship at their life and they think, did we peak like. Is, is this all we get to do in our relationship? And [00:09:00] this hunger develops where it's like, I want more. I don't wanna leave this relationship. I want more inside of this relationship. I want my partner to know how to show up for me in these new ways.

'cause as we heal, as we integrate, as we kind of come into our own new era, right? What lights us up might be different. What? Satisfies a lot of people who get into this work. They crave depth, like depth, deep conversations, something that goes a little below the surface. [00:09:30] And for almost all of my clients who are women, they're looking for a.

Emotional intelligence. When that line gets crossed and they want more, nine times outta 10, what we kind of explore and discover is what's missing is this felt sense that there's a peer emotional intelligence in the relationship. 

Chandler Stroud: Got it. Okay. That's really helpful to understand. I mean, to the degree, how widespread it is, how it [00:10:00] gets named and how women are articulating they feel about it, which I think, I think it's really cool that you can kind of pick up on that in the conversations.

And you're seeing this red thread, this commonality across a lot of the conversations you're happening and realizing that this is something that a lot of women are facing and dealing with. And it is a real problem when you wake up in your life like that and you want more, but you don't know how to go get it.

Zach Carlsen: Yeah, yeah. And I wanna give a little [00:10:30] love to the men of the world too, who in this scenario are often the ones who are lagging behind. And I just wanna acknowledge that. We aren't conditioned to seek emotional development so much as we're conditioned to seek like intellectual, rational, logical development.

And so every word I say in this interview, I'm acknowledging the fact that both sides have forces [00:11:00] playing into the dynamic that are. Societal, cultural, they're, they're part of the program and this isn't my opportunity to bag on any one person or another, but instead to inform and to offer light in a way to folks who are like legitimately suffering with this right now.

Chandler Stroud: I think that's really important and a really good way for. If it is predominantly men for [00:11:30] them to understand that there are larger forces at play here. And I totally agree that men are not conditioned to go looking for emotional development. I mean, that's just not how anyone, any of us were really brought up.

So I see that play out in my day to day, certainly not even within the depths of healing work. Zach, what's the biggest misunderstanding people tend to have when they start feeling like they're outgrowing their partner? I 

Zach Carlsen: mean, right on the surface, I think it's that the [00:12:00] relationship is broken or that they're outgrowing and it's a permanent thing.

This person will never change. It's a lot of dread. It's a lot of what, what I eventually see as like an overcorrection. It comes from a sincere place like, I don't know how familiar this experience was for you, but that initial year or two of growth and discovery and healing, where it's just like our minds are being blown, we're connecting dots.

We're able to go back into our past and [00:12:30] kind of find a new frame for our experiences. I mean, it is like intoxicating in a way than to almost use that against someone. In a way or to think that, oh my gosh, like I'm gonna be growing like this forever and I don't know if I'll be able to relate to anyone ever again.

I mean, it just, it just has so many different facets to it. The energy that I bring today is one of solidarity and, but belief that, you know, couples need to work through [00:13:00] these things together. But then also there's, there's times when it's, it's just. Like a rite of passage. Someone gets into their healing journey and they're in a new season and their partner actually doesn't catch up.

Chandler Stroud: Yeah, I can imagine those cases exist too, but I think it's important that you called out the distinction between them. You don't have to go straight to that scenario just because you have this feeling of. They're not caught up. They don't care. I'm not feeling supported in this. [00:13:30] Like there's a lot you can peel back there before you go straight to I'm out.

So I think it's a really good distinction. You're making 

Zach Carlsen: absolutely 

Chandler Stroud: really good distinction. How can human design help reframe that feeling for women, especially before it turns into frustration or worse resentment with their partner? 

Zach Carlsen: Have you ever had that experience, and I ask this to your listeners where when you just.

Learn intellectually some details about a situation. It changes [00:14:00] everything. You learn the name for something, you learn like the, the kind of step by steps of how a process works. I know that for me it's like if I have a toothache and I can discover, you know, the source of that toothache, the pain actually goes away.

Or it lessens just by knowing what the source of something is, it softens. It might open us up to greater bandwidth for dealing with it as a problem. Human design can do that for us [00:14:30] in the sense that it can name kind of big energetic themes in our lives. For example, I'm a manifesting generator. My girlfriend is a projector.

We have very different kind of paces that we're designed to move through life at. And if I didn't know that about her, I would wonder like why is our energy different? Human design, it gives like a, in a lot of ways, a broad stroke so that we can accept people literally for who they are. [00:15:00] And we don't just have to take it on words.

We can actually then observe them. Being who they truly are and and noticing how consistent that is. I'm also friends with some pure manifesters who are constantly saying things that trigger me. If I didn't know that about the manifester, that that's kind of their thing that they do best sometimes. Like I, I don't know that I would have [00:15:30] any compassion for them.

I would think that they're just, they don't know how to read a room. They're being jerks, blah, blah, blah. My ego is hurt, but because I have this frame. That then I can literally test the data with my interactions with this person. It opens me up for acceptance. And so with couples, when there's tension and I do couples readings, which are one of my favorite things to do, and it's like getting a chance to put [00:16:00] together some conversations around energy and difference and, and sameness.

With language that we can actually point to these things that are hard to get at. Consistency, follow through energy bandwidth, how self-motivating we are. Are we more of a leader or a guide or a mentor? Like I think we use those words interchangeably, but if we're expecting someone to be a leader and they're really designed to be more of a mentor or a guide, like someone who works maybe one-on-one with people or someone who [00:16:30] works like behind the scenes.

That person will disappoint us forever because we're expecting them to be this way. And human design reveals to us, no, they're actually designed, their sweet spot is in this other realm. And so again, having a, just a mental framework for these people in our lives, I think does a lot of the heavy lifting.

Chandler Stroud: Yeah, I can attest to that. I've said this in past episodes with you. I have been very fortunate in that my partner, my husband, has been super supportive in my healing [00:17:00] journey and has dabbled in a lot of the modalities that I have tried at this point, including getting a reading with you. And we learned he's a projector just like your girlfriend, and it used to drive me crazy, the resentment I would feel when I would see him take these little naps throughout the day all the time, and I'd be like.

Come on, dude. Like there's dishes, there's laundry, like I'm running around doing all this stuff and you're napping, like what is happening? There was so much resentment, and then I found out he's a projector. And guess what? Projectors have to [00:17:30] reset their energy throughout the day. They're not like they.

Generators, manifesting generators who like expend their energy and then sleep hard at night and then do do it all again the same day. And that simple reframing has completely washed away the resentment I feel when I see him resting because I know I'm getting the best version of him when he gets off the couch.

Zach Carlsen: Amazing. Yes. That's, that's a perfect example. 

Chandler Stroud: I had to share it. I have shared it before, but like, that was like such a breakthrough for us, I feel like, and I was just, I was really grateful [00:18:00] he had that time with you. 

Zach Carlsen: Yeah. 

Chandler Stroud: He's funny about it. He like all the time he'll be like, I'm a projector babe. Like, this is what I do.

Or like, he's like, I'm guiding today, don't you feel me? Guiding, you know, like he'll have fun with it. And it's actually been, it's been really fun. Yeah, it's good. So thank you for that, Zach. You've fused even more humor into our relationship. Zach, you mentioned the importance of giving ourselves full permission to grow, even if a partner is in a different place.

Why is that such a critical [00:18:30] starting point, do you think? 

Zach Carlsen: I think it's crucial because it's so easy not to do it, and if we sort of tune into like what is the ultimate kind of message that we get from. Culture. I see it as being twofold. One is yolo. You only live once. Like do it big, go hard. And the other is don't rock the boat.

It's the opposite of it. Don't rock the boat. You might get kicked out, you might get murdered, you might get exiled. Like be safe, be calm, be quiet. And it's these two messages that I think we get [00:19:00] simultaneously that just sort of wrap up like. Turn us up in circles, and that permission is stepping outside of that weird binary that no one really consented to in the first place.

And it's giving us our birthright, which is to be who we truly are and to do what we need to do to discover who we truly are. Because I don't think we can just sit with a journal and find that out. We actually need to immerse ourselves in experiences. And that doesn't mean with other [00:19:30] people necessarily, but it means going out into the world and interacting with form, interacting with matter, and then taking that back and seeing how does that affect us?

And in order to do that wholeheartedly, I think we need to be a hundred percent on board for it ourselves first. 

Chandler Stroud: Yeah, no, I think you're right in that, and I also liked that you called out the flip of that, like either way you're holding yourself back if you aren't giving yourself permission to grow, or [00:20:00] you are kind of taming yourself to fit the relationship as it is and not fully expressing that growth, like that is another whole situation in which you're not living into.

Your alignment with, you know, why you're here and what you're meant to learn and all of that. So I think that was a really good thing that you called that out too. 

Zach Carlsen: Yeah. And anyone who's listening, who has experienced real growth that other people can see, it can freak people out. [00:20:30] The people around us, because we're changing and it's like.

Unconsciously, maybe consciously sometimes too. They're like, who is this person? They're not the same size, the same shape as I'm used to. I've taken it personally before when people have changed, like is can I keep up with this person? I mean, I'm not outside of this dynamic either of feeling kind of the.

Pressure, the urgency to change and to keep up with the people in my life and to make that [00:21:00] authentic. 

Chandler Stroud: That's cool to hear it. From that perspective. I feel like we often talk to like healers in this space who are feeling like they're outgrowing old relationships, but to feel like you're surrounding yourself with people who.

Make you question and the relationship and make you feel a little self-conscious about that. I think it's just a really good reminder that we're all living our own version of these stories we tell ourselves. 

Zach Carlsen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And as a coach, I don't claim to be at a mountaintop saying, I [00:21:30] found the way, it's this way, follow me.

But instead to just be shoulder to shoulder with people. Walking through the forest together, like finding these things out and not then having to put on a mask of perfection. 'cause I mean that's probably a heavy mask to wear all the time. 

Chandler Stroud: How can understanding your own design help you better accept a partner whose approach to growth, emotions, or decision making looks very different than your own?

Zach Carlsen: I mean, [00:22:00] we are each the common denominator in our lives. And I think that when that truly lands, we can see how consistent we are in our own patterns and how consistent we are in our own resistance and how consistent we are in the ways that we might sabotage, but also in the ways that we might fill our own cup.

And so human design can one, give us validation. I give about five human design readings every week right now. [00:22:30] I had to cap it off because I mean, so many people are interested in this work today. And yeah, I love it too. And oftentimes in those readings, one of two things happens. Revelation like, oh my gosh, this mind blowing dot gets connected or validation, like, I always knew that, but I'd never.

Been able to confirm it or affirm it. 

Chandler Stroud: Mm. 

Zach Carlsen: And some of those dots that connect are like kind of what you [00:23:00] shared about your husband, Ryan, like that taking naps and resetting his energy throughout the day is so healthy for him. 

Chandler Stroud: Yeah. 

Zach Carlsen: We live in a culture that's been created and designed by generators where it's like, I'm gonna take a me, I'm gonna take a power nap.

Mm-hmm. Like once a week for 20 minutes so that I can get up and do more. And so when projectors, for example, are held to that standard, no naps. No rest, no resetting your energy. [00:23:30] It's hard for like, that's foundational. That's baseline. And so I. Without that awareness, that permission, that validation, that suggestion from the design, like, Hey, your energy is wired to be a little different than the mainstream.

Without that, as a foundation, we're just playing catch up all the time. And so putting that into the context of couples, again, if we can know such things about our partners, it can help us, one, prevent that resentment from ever brewing in the first [00:24:00] place, both toward the partner and toward ourselves.

Because I work with a lot of people who feel stuck, like they're full of this awareness. They've read all these books, like they're so intelligent and yet stuck, and human design can help us figure out those sorts of blocks as well. And the stuckness is sometimes like I'm stuck because of my partner. I'm stuck because of.

This, this relationship that I'm in, and human design would [00:24:30] say, no, you're stuck because you do X, Y, or Z. Maybe address that in yourself first, and then revisit the conversation about if this has anything to do with your relationship at all. 

Chandler Stroud: Are there certain human design types or authorities where you see this tension show up more clearly or maybe more frequently in relationships?

Zach Carlsen: I'm not one of those human design readers. Does that because I think that the. [00:25:00] There's more harm than good that can come from that, like saying, oh, projectors and manifesters, those are incompatible types or two generators to get together. But what I will say is that each type does have kind of an energy vibe.

And generators and manifesting generators were considered the energy types, and so we're designed to have kind of a rechargeable battery. And then the other three types, manifestors, projectors and reflectors are considered non-energy [00:25:30] types. And so again, their energy comes in a different form. It's not just a steady on tap.

Piece. And so knowing those kind of big moving parts in a chart too can be really helpful. If you're an energy type like me, and you're with a non-energy type, and that's, that's you and Ryan, you're, you're an energy type, he's non energy type. Just knowing that, again, back to a mental framework, it's like, okay, can, can I accept this in this person?

And usually the answer is [00:26:00] yes, I will try. But sometimes it's like, no. Again, it's like, no, I can't accept this in this and, and then you're at least working with some real data. 

Chandler Stroud: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can accept it, Ryan. I promise. It's great. I've learned to love it. I have. We're such different people. No, but I will tell you, I mean, I say that a lot when I'm talking to anyone about our relationship.

We are so different. 

Zach Carlsen: Hmm. 

Chandler Stroud: That it is, it works so well because [00:26:30] he helps me see different perspectives from my own in everything. Work. Love, friendship, community, and I think I do the same for him. And so we celebrate those differences and that means a lot to both of us. But that's not to say every couple does.

So I totally understand what you're saying, but I wanna acknowledge that in case he hears this episode, that I am very accepting of his projector ways. And you know, I love that he challenges me to be [00:27:00] a more expansive version of myself. 

Zach Carlsen: Yeah. Oh, I love that you brought it there. 'cause one of my favorite quotes is that other people aren't failed attempts at becoming us.

Chandler Stroud: Mm. 

Zach Carlsen: Other people are not failed attempts at becoming us. And in relationships too. Here's another thing, and it might be a reason why this like it disconnect happens, is that we generally are drawn to people for their differences. I don't know many people who, when they're out dating, they're [00:27:30] like, I wanna find someone who's just like me.

I hear people saying, I wanna find someone who's got similar interests in me, but say that that interest is hiking, or the movies or something. The juice or the spark in that relationship is that that other person can bring a different perspective to that same thing. Right? Passion, I think, generally grows when there's polarity, like there's this kind of dance that's happening, and the dance is the otherness in that person.

It's what makes them different from us, and then slowly as the relationship goes [00:28:00] on, if that otherness is seen at some point as threatening and it kind of gets weeded out, then it's creating this neutrality. And in that neutrality, nothing really moves. And so again, I think human design gives us like language to appreciate what is different in other people.

Chandler Stroud: I love that. And actually it reminds me of a podcast episode I listened to recently with, it was a diary of a CEO episode with Tony Robbins and he talks about like the five. [00:28:30] Basic underlying foundational human needs, and one is certainty and the other is uncertainty. And he explains that in the episode, and I was fascinated by this, but it speaks to what you're saying.

Like we look for people with similar interests, right? Like that's the certainty to a degree, but the uncertainty is like. If we knew what was gonna happen next, if I could read your mind, like life would be pretty boring. We need a little bit of that uncertainty, and that's what bringing a partner, looking for qualities in a partner that are different from [00:29:00] you, that's the uncertainty.

So that's where it all comes together, and I think it's a critical piece of the puzzle according to Tony Robbins, who, you know, look him up. He's done everything that you can do as a human on this earth, so, mm-hmm. But I, that's immediately what came to mind as you were speaking about that, and I just thought I would share that 'cause I found that fascinating.

Zach Carlsen: Yep. And Tony Robbins a great example of a manifesting generator living in alignment. 

Chandler Stroud: Oh my gosh, that's a whole episode. I wanna like sit down with [00:29:30] you and be like, Taylor Swift. Go Tony Robbins. Go. Like, let's just do celebrity human designs for an hour, and I think that would be a lot of fun. Well, we, I would love that.

Do at some point. Yeah, it's a lot of work for you, so I won't, you know, we'll talk it through, can do it organically. We'll look through who you've already looked at in the past from an energetic perspective. Zach, what's the difference between inviting a partner into growth versus unconsciously trying to pull them along [00:30:00] forcibly.

Zach Carlsen: Yeah. Yeah, the direct approach. Having the hard conversation up front is what I invite folks to do all day long. Like that is, it is so important. If this is resonating with you right now and you notice that there's been like this unconscious frustration or this dissatisfaction or fear, bringing it up directly, I think is absolutely the first thing to try because.

[00:30:30] Personal development, self-work, healing with a gun to your head doesn't work like. Being, feeling like you're forced to change. Forced to grow, right. Panic is not a great place to be creative from, and I mean like creating new frequencies in ourselves, creating new versions of ourself. And so yeah, being direct about it and also roping in a third party I think is really helpful too in the beginning.

[00:31:00] Because another thing that happens is like that resentment that you talk about that. Knowledge can help prevent. It's like, okay, my partner is a reflector, and just by knowing that I like this thing that I was resenting kind of goes away or I have a context for understanding it, but roping in a third party, and that could be a couples therapist.

Like I said, I give readings to couples and those are really fun because it's like a whole new language. We're talking like woo woo kind of terms, chakras, energy [00:31:30] frequencies, and it brings a lightness to it that I think if that's not there in the beginning, it's hard to cultivate that lightness later.

And so if you're listening to this, this is resonating and you're like, oh my gosh, this is me. I would say that that kind of how this topic gets introduced into a relationship. The how of that matters, and if it can be brought with lightness and curiosity, deep respect and love, it can sow these seeds of passion that like do light things [00:32:00] back up again.

But again, going into it without the resentment, without the, you know, the force, the dragging someone into it and with as much awareness of how that person is wired. Maybe human design isn't your thing, but Enneagram is or love languages. Having some system where you can appreciate what's different in them first, I think gives this navigating this dynamic.

The fuel that it truly needs. 

Chandler Stroud: Well said. What are some ways you've seen people successfully [00:32:30] introduce this kind of work to a partner without the pressure 

Zach Carlsen: talking about it as a couple. Right. Addressing it, naming it, doing so like I just mentioned without. Judgment. Without demand, without shame, and then figuring out individually what is that person's path to growth.

My path, for example, was doing a lot of men's work. I was in five men's groups at one point. It was like my second job doing that work with men. Super vulnerable. [00:33:00] Super satisfying, very multidimensional, but doing my own work in the relationship. This was a previous relationship I was in so that my girlfriend at the time could do her own work in her own way.

But not thinking that like growing together means we're both talking to the same coach. We're both reading the same books, we're both listening to the same podcast. It's like, name the thing, and then figure out what are your tools. Are they similar? Are they different from your partner? Name it first and then figure out what your tools are [00:33:30] gonna be.

Because again, what What happens a lot of times is when I'm working with a client whose partner is a man and they're feeling like they're outgrowing that man, that guy doesn't know what to do. He's hoping it'll just go away by itself. He doesn't do anything. And that's kind of the kiss of death. It's like doing something.

But that something. Allowing it, giving ourselves permission to be what will work for us. Some people, some guys in my life, men's groups [00:34:00] would definitely have not worked for them. They needed that one-on-one or they needed something maybe a little more social. And so again, human design can help us figure out, like it helps trim down the list of things to try or experiment with first.

Chandler Stroud: That makes sense. I understand what you mean by that. Thanks for sharing, Zach. For listeners who may feel discouraged or afraid that their partner may never quote unquote, get there, what would you want them to hear? 

Zach Carlsen: First thing [00:34:30] is don't let that disparity slow you down. And there's a whole suite of emotions I think that comes with just thinking about that.

Like, I don't wanna leave them behind. I don't wanna abandon them. And those are all thoughts. Those aren't facts. And I also think that. We are inspired by real people and that living our best lives in our relationships, it can [00:35:00] be inspiring. It can motivate that person to say, oh my gosh, they're doing it.

Look at the results they're having. I want those too. But then I would, I, I would, beyond that, I would say lead by example. And then I think from my side of things too, I've seen how bringing a little intention. A little bit of directness to this issue. It can make these couples blossom. I mean, [00:35:30] if you're unsatisfied and you haven't actually talked about this with your partner, you're still at the very, very beginning.

Chandler Stroud: I think that's great advice, Zach. I think those on those conversations can be incredibly uncomfortable, which is always my indication for me personally that I need to have them. If that makes sense. I feel like you, I always know like if something feels uncomfortable, it means it's probably the way I should go.

That's just [00:36:00] like general a gen. It doesn't apply to everything, but generally speaking, I have found if I'm scared to do something, it means it's probably the right thing with, you know, some exceptions trumping off a bridge being one of them, for example. Like that's different, but you know. As it comes to like interpersonal communications and relationships, I feel that that has served me really well.

So, mm-hmm. For whatever that's worth to anyone listening, if that's a conversation that scares you, I think there's probably a lot of [00:36:30] richness that will come from having it both for you personally, in terms of your own growth, and you never know. To your point, you never know what can bloom within that relationship as a result of being that honest, vulnerable, and forthcoming with your feelings.

Zach Carlsen: Yeah. And 

Chandler Stroud: so important 

Zach Carlsen: that touches on like a kind of a core wound that I often meet with women on this topic is they're, they don't wanna lead in the relationship on every front. [00:37:00] They're tired of leading. They're tired of leading logistically and emotionally. And so another piece too would be figure out what your role is.

Where do you wanna be leading in this? And it can't be in every single position. And so I. Figuring out, are you more the one that cultivates intimacy, connection, loving a loving flow and circulation of energy? Are you the one who's better at the calendar and getting things done and crossing things off the list?

Which [00:37:30] elements from each camp maybe get separated from one to another, but not pigeonholing ourselves into just one place? That's the number one thing is with the women I work with is like, they're like, I am so. Tired of leading this relationship and it doesn't feel good. And then it brings up that question from the beginning is like, where's this relationship going?

You know, we've been together for this long and like, are we done? Are we done growing? And it, it requires [00:38:00] co-leadership, I think, to navigate through. 

Chandler Stroud: Yeah. Yeah, I would imagine it for sure. It does. What, or maybe I should phrase it this way. Are there signs that suggest that different pacing in growth is workable versus needing those deeper conversations?

Zach Carlsen: I mean, I think that's determined from person to person. 'cause I definitely am a depth person like. I'm sitting next, next to someone on a plane and I'm trying to clock how quick can we get out of [00:38:30] small talk and into some more interesting pocket of the 

Chandler Stroud: Yeah. 

Zach Carlsen: And I've sat next to people and they're just not gonna do that.

They, they're not having it. Mm-hmm. They, and there's nothing wrong with them. It's just not interesting to them. And so, again, like human design can give us a snapshot. Of how that might go. Is someone better at playing a long game? Slow and steady wins the race. Is someone more inclined to cultivate these quantum leaps?

And we've [00:39:00] all seen these people in our lives where it's like from one week to the next, they're like a different person. If that's authentic to that person, wonderful. But if that's the pressure that's applied to everyone, we need to change in this specific way. I know that that just doesn't work, and so I think getting clear on your own pace first, how do you want to grow?

How do you want to move through this without considering anyone else, not your partner, not your kids, not your job. If you had your say, [00:39:30] what kind of growth is most interesting to you starting there and then maybe helping your partner figure out the answer to that question too. Because if you're the one leading the charge, they, they're probably not just gonna ask themself that question on their own.

And so inviting that. Piece into the conversation as well. And also knowing that some people, they're not gonna wanna process it verbally talk about it to death. They might need, you know, a season to get into [00:40:00] gear. And so again, not forcing somebody to change, but instead offering these sort of motivational, inspirational invitations.

Chandler Stroud: Love that. I think that's great advice. Zach, for women listening who are actively on a growth or healing journey, what's one practical way they can use human design to stay centered in themselves? 

Zach Carlsen: What I love about human design is that there's nothing that we need to believe. There's nothing that we need to [00:40:30] just accept as a fact, but instead it gives us legitimately endless opportunities.

For ways that we can go out and test and explore and gather data points on our very own through interacting with the world, interacting with other people, and then interacting with ourselves as well. And so having a cornucopia of a. Practices that we can try that don't require belief, they don't require taking anything on faith.

'cause those are elements for another part [00:41:00] of the healing journey, the more deeply spiritual pieces, maybe more mindfulness. But when it comes to like transformation, I don't think that that happens. From journaling. I don't think that happens from a kind of half-hearted breath work practice. I think getting into the world and figuring out what moves the dial for us requires engagement and so people, anyone out there who is I.

Concerned that maybe things won't change or concerned that like this [00:41:30] relationship is stuck. The invitation that human design would offer would be aligned action and aligned action for me is gonna look different for the other. 7.9 repeating billion people on the planet. And so it's a cheat code in a way.

Chandler Stroud: Human design is the cheat code. You heard it here first, folks. Zach, if listeners take away one mindset shift from this conversation today, what would you hope it is? 

Zach Carlsen: Your growth is yours. It's yours to [00:42:00] manage. It's yours to implement. It's yours to enjoy. And I think the person who's first and foremost.

Benefiting from your healing is you. And so we can get wrapped around the axle thinking about our partners and our past relationships, but when it comes down to it, it's you. And giving yourself that permission that we talked about earlier, to heal at your pace, to seize the day, like when you're on. And you know it.

Not [00:42:30] watering yourself down, not making yourself small for the comfort of anybody else. I just saw a post today and it's like. This successful entrepreneur and they're like, who are you trying to impress? And then he flashes to a picture of himself when he is six years old. And it just made me weepy because that's true.

Like most of us out there who are bringing our influence to new levels and offering our gifts in service. It's like the person we're competing with is who we were [00:43:00] yesterday and the person we're trying to impress and become is the person who we needed when we were a child. 

Chandler Stroud: Mic drop, Zach. That one's gonna stay with me for the rest of the day.

That's a whole new like layer to how I think about this work and everything I'm doing. That's like I'm gonna have to peel back that onion later in a journal. Ironically. Zach, thank you so much for being here today. As always, I had so much fun with you. I learned from you, you pushed me to [00:43:30] think about my own healing and experiences in new ways, and I'm so grateful for that and for you.

So thank you for being here. 

Zach Carlsen: And Chandler, I am humbled, honored every time we get to have one of these conversations. So thank you to you and to everyone who's listening. 

Chandler Stroud: Well, we are very lucky to have you. Zach, you're back. Welcome back Anytime truly. I really do have so much fun with you. 

Zach Carlsen: Mm-hmm. 

Chandler Stroud: And to everyone listening, if today's episode resonated with you, please [00:44:00] share it with a friend who might need this reminder.

You can also visit Healing Heroes Podcast. Dot com to meet our heroes, explore resources, and share your ideas for future episodes. Thanks for listening, everyone, and until next time, remember, be curious, be courageous, and be kind to yourself. You've got [00:44:30] this.