Wellness Unplugged
Wellness isn't just about counting calories or hitting the gym. It's a holistic journey that encompasses mind, body, and spirit.
Join me on "Wellness Unplugged" as we go off the beaten path and explore the multi-faceted world of well-being.
With a rotating cast of expert hosts, we'll dive deep into the latest research, trends, and philosophies surrounding overall wellness.
From nutrition and fitness to mental health, spirituality, and everything in between, no stone will be left unturned.
Prepare to have your perspectives challenged and your mind opened as we unplug from the conventional narratives and tap into the raw, unfiltered truths about what it really means to live your best life.
Equal parts informative and thought-provoking, "Wellness Unplugged" is your gateway to a more vibrant, fulfilling existence.
Tune in and join the revolution - it's time to redefine wellness on your own terms.
Wellness Unplugged
Embracing Your Past to Heal Your Present
What if the trauma you've been avoiding is silently shaping your everyday life? Join me, Brittany Ramuno, and my insightful guest Katie on this raw and real episode of Wellness Unplugged as we strip away the facades and tackle the complex topic of trauma. From generational pain to personal scars, we discuss why many avoid confronting their traumatic experiences and how this reluctance impacts healing. Katie opens up about her own journey, sharing how trauma has affected her and the uncomfortable yet essential work of addressing it.
We dive into coping strategies that can make a real difference, from EMDR therapy to self-soothing mechanisms. Hear Katie's candid revelations about her personal methods, such as nervous fidgeting and leg-crossing, and learn the importance of rewiring our brains to find healthier ways to manage trauma. Whether you're dealing with your past or grappling with generational issues, this episode is packed with valuable insights and practical advice to guide you on your healing journey. Get ready to unplug, get real, and start the conversation about trauma that we all need to have.
Hey y'all, I'm your host, Brittany Ramuno. Now, before you get too excited, thinking this is just another podcast about tracking macros and learning which new hot workout will finally make you love yourself, let me stop you there. This podcast exists to rip off the bandaid and go well beyond the superficial eat better, move more advice. Because, honestly, who really has their life together after nailing their macros? No one. That's who, and that's why Wellness Unplugged. I'm here throwing open the curtains of all the gnarly cringeworthy stuff we usually keep behind closed doors. So buckle up and get ready to get real. My friends, Whether you're tuning in during a workout or hiding in your bedroom calling it a self-renewal break, I'm here with you. Let's unplug from the highlight reels and dive into the glorious, messy scope of adulthood. Welcome to Wellness Unplugged. I'm so glad you're here. We're talking about trauma today and, with that being said, Katie, I'm going to ask first off how are you?
Speaker 2:Oh, you know, I'm living the dream Every day, all day.
Speaker 1:That's my favorite line Stop it. It might be genetic. Maybe it is All right. So today's hot topic trauma. Obviously it runs deep in our blood, it runs deep in our generations. We've had to overcome and assess a lot of things, right. So what do you feel is the most important thing to know about trauma and how it affects a person?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I don't know if I can get it all into one sentence, but I do think in a lot of ways, trauma is often it's overlooked and people mostly don't want to talk about it because they feel like it turns them into a victim or they're being victimized. The cat is immediately going to start going bananas next to me. Oh my gosh, talking about trauma, these damn cats Anyway. Um, so trauma affects pretty much every aspect of our lives, and then you spend a decent portion of your life trying to undo the trauma. Some people choose not to, because we sit in what's comfortable and it's not always comfortable to work on it. Um, but trauma does greatly affect us. Even if we ignore it, it is still there. Um, I know the typical phrase is that, like your body, what is that your body like? Remembers or keep your body, keeps score?
Speaker 2:Yes, um and a lot of ways it does, it really does. It doesn't matter if it was mental. It has the same hold, regardless of the type of abuse that you may have endured, or neglect or abandonment. There's a lot, and some people had very happy childhoods but are still trying to overcome generational trauma that, in dealing and communicating with relatives who maybe are going through it like you, are actively having to. You know work on things with them while they may be choosing not to so. Trauma affects people in everyday life and it is not an easy thing to talk about or even want to.
Speaker 1:It's uncomfortable for especially. I mean, I've it's taken me a really long time for me to be okay with what has happened in the past and me to really talk about it. Right, because, like you said, no one wants to talk about it, because then you feel victim, you feel like you're, you know, singing a sad tune and you really don't want it to come across that way. You're just trying to process it the best way you know how to, what would be, I guess, your favorite coping strategies to move through any traumatic experiences and trying to like relive, to reprocess, to kind of like put it to bed.
Speaker 2:So everybody can deal with this in different ways. Obviously, there's like EMDR therapy experiences and trying to like, relive, to reprocess, to kind of like put it to bed. So everybody can deal with this in different ways. Obviously there's like EMDR therapy. There are ways to learn to self-soothe. Like fidgeting is a big thing that your nervous system will cause you to do, like one thing I found myself doing. I'm one of those that have to cross their legs every five minutes or I'll mess with my hair. Like these are all responses of your nervous system having developed their own self-soothing mechanisms and you either can lean into those or you can find new methods.
Speaker 2:You almost have to rewire your brain. So, like, for my experience, I often feel like I'm very invalidated in things that I might be going through or feeling. So then I'll find myself in this cycle of oh well, what just happened to me? I'm being dramatic if I think about it. So instead I have to. Then you know kind of battle within myself of like no, this is real. This is like you're valid in your feeling. We're all valid in our feelings.
Speaker 2:No one experiences things the way that we do, um, and therefore you really need to look in on yourself and not get not give too much into other people's opinions when they are giving what they want to share of your experience. But I think that really finding out what helps you to rewire your brain whether that's like the physicalness of tapping or noises or rocking like it just depends Talking through it works better for others than it may for someone who prefers physical. It's just you really have to start understanding what you feel like you need and what may help you. But you also have to address the issues in order to work through them and sometimes even that's hard. I mean you have memory blocking. That happens. You may not want to think about it, so it is a tough thing. I also think having a really good support system. I don't know about you, but like I need constant reassurance for certain things.
Speaker 1:So I'm I'm not a constant reassurance, Not not everybody. Yeah, even with like Joe, I was in the beginning of like our relationship right, because I was rock bottom broken several times. I was kind of glued back together and kind of shattered a few times. I definitely needed, we had to learn our love languages, for sure. Yeah, because it was important for me to understand how I received love and how I gave love because of everything that I've been through as a kid, a teen, an adult, right. Yeah, that was huge for us and I did need. It's not that I needed verbal affirmation like verbal. I needed verbal affirmation like verbal. I needed to be touched like I needed to be hugged and like kind of told like you're okay, you're safe, type of thing.
Speaker 2:So for sure, a closeness connection with that, like the physical touch, especially if you didn't get that a lot from your own parents, like I, my family did. Family did not grow up hugging I'm not a hugger Um. So with my kids, I actively make sure that I'm showing them affection in all different ways so that they learn that. So, like a few weeks ago, my children were like oh, you always make sure you kiss us before you go to bed and give us hugs, and like that to me reassures that they're getting that from me, when I didn't get that as a child, bro.
Speaker 2:Um, I think and maybe you can disagree with me, but I feel like this happened to a lot of our family members that monetary things, whoo uh, was what they would give in place of love, almost like it felt like if they bought you enough, um, it would forgive a mistake that they did or it would do that. So I think that manifests in like, if you feel you're a gift giver, it's because you're seeking. Well, if I did something wrong and I therefore buy them, it's because you've been wired to think monetary items equate to your value I you had for for our family.
Speaker 1:You absolutely fucking hit the nail on the head Because I get.
Speaker 2:I love giving gifts to people. I feel like it makes me feel better. It makes me in some dysfunctional way. I'm like, well, at least they're happy with me right now because I just made them happy and I'm not saying it's the healthiest thing.
Speaker 2:but you have to like re visit and understand that not everybody cares about what you present to them or put value on that okay, look, no qualms here, because my life was bought as a child I don't feel like I was on the receiving end of that, but I did witness it time and time again to where, like I know that myself, I I didn't receive things in order for, like a sense of forgiveness I witnessed it happen to other people but it manifested in me that I almost felt like I wasn't good enough, unless I could did that, because as a kid I was like when will I be good enough, that I will be the one to receive those items, and I also like don't want people to feel like that and how I felt. So I tried to overindulge and how I treat other people. So you know, it's a mishmash of emotions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me tell you, I, with my biological mom, I was bought. Yeah, because she was was bought, yeah, because she was never there.
Speaker 2:Right, I remember every time we would come to your house I was like Brittany has all the cool ass shit. Like this is boring, spend the night. I wouldn't get to it. I'm like right, I'll just go to my Harry Potter closet and like stay by myself and Lizzie's like we had so much fun. Harry Potter closet and like stay by myself and Lizzie's like we had so much fun.
Speaker 1:I'm like thank you so much. Yeah, thank you, dude. She bought the shit out of me as a child and you're right. I kind of think that it it carries on because I love to spoil people especially close to me and I didn't think necessarily that it was because of I was buying their happiness. But it makes me happy to see other people happy. Yeah, but it does stem from somewhere.
Speaker 2:I do think that there's genuine intent that you can buy things because you genuinely care about the feelings of others. But I do think it starts somewhere where you believe objects can maintain the relationship and once you take away the object, you're then kind of left of like, well, will they still like me, can I? Am I good enough of a person to continue making them happy if I take that object away? Yeah, like that's a tough thing for a lot of people, because maintaining relationships, even like you see all the time where people like the memes that say find yourself friends that don't require your constant attention, or like they're fine if they get a text a week, I think in today's day everybody assumes, with how far technology is that if you're not giving that attention, you're going to be there. So then you're like, oh well, I could buy them something, them something. And like.
Speaker 1:So, yes, it'll spark everything back up and we're good, and I'm that way now, like I have a few friends, that if I hear from them like once a week, just like, a life check like yo, you're alive, you're good, right, you're good, I'm good, like you don't need anything.
Speaker 1:But there are people like I do have friends that they have to text me every single day and it's I never thought about it, like you know, in the way that you put it, that they need that like validation, to make sure that we're okay and, yeah, I've got some.
Speaker 2:That's a whole other thing, like the, the validation of um, like feeling that you're um, like in the attachment styles that we talked about in like the anxious attachment. Often those people are the ones that are like oh, you haven't answered me in 30 seconds, are you okay? Do you hate me? Are you mad at me? Um, you've not responded so clearly. I did something wrong, so, and that's let's talk about that.
Speaker 1:The attachment theory because you taught me that and I have been. I ordered my own book. It's supposed to be here next week. I'm very excited. I'm very, very. I need to learn about my attachments. It's an interesting theory. Let's let's talk about that. So what types of theories are there?
Speaker 2:what types of theories are there are? Are there? So there's um anxious attachment theory, which centers all around the person being overly anxious in their relationship. You know, this could be extreme, as in like they're afraid their significant other might be cheating, so they will consistently drive around and be reassure themselves like, oh, my significant other is where they said they would be. Or it can be something that's just verbal, like um, I'm going to consistently ask them for reassurance that their text is what it was.
Speaker 2:Then there's avoidant attachment, which means you avoid everything like the plague, you want nothing to do with it. If you feel any ounce of threatened or like animosity, you will shut down and you'll just be like, ah, we'll get back to that tomorrow. Which also is like in that you'll see some stonewalling which is like, oh, you bring this up all the time, like not a big deal, so it's similar to gaslighting, but it's like that person who's trying to cut out any of the hard conversations. I know there's disorganized. I always forget if disorganized is its own or similar to. I know you and I have talked about this.
Speaker 1:I'm the disorganized avoidant?
Speaker 2:Yes, which is they all? In general, I think a lot. There can be some overlap in them, but with disorganized you kind of, I feel like it's a combination of the both. So it just depends on how it's manifesting, where you'll see exactly what they're avoiding, what they're anxious about, and then you have your favorite secure attachment, which you know they have their own issues, but they also know how to regulate themselves much better. They were given better tools in their childhood Life goals yes, literally.
Speaker 2:I read a quote somewhere that was like and I'm paraphrasing so I'm probably going to butcher this but something like you can develop a secure attachment in childhood if you are given 30% or 30% of your needs are met. If only 30% of your needs are met. As a child, I know it was mind blowing what the hell? Or did we get one or two? And right, and I was like wow, I have very I always say this, I have very low expectations for most people in my life. I have high expectations for myself, low expectations for others, um, and sometimes I'm disappointed, but like, overall, my childhood trauma has made me become a hyper fixated, like perfectionist in myself. Um, it's in our blood. I read that. I was like wow, I mean, it makes me feel better as a parent that I'm like I think I'm meeting 30% of my children's needs. Yeah, now I feel I feel like I'm meeting 30% of my children's needs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now I feel, I feel like I'm doing parenting right now I'm like no, you know if there's a reassurance in that. I did read that once and I was like damn, that's a low number. That is Holy yeah. So, um, you know, if you can at least meet the 30%, you're probably a rock star parent.
Speaker 1:I am going to put a star next to parenting. Moving forward, Because here I am.
Speaker 2:I'm like I knew where that quote. I know I saw it somewhere. I can't remember the who said it, so I apologize, but I did come across that and it was just like mind blowing to me because I constantly am like I think I yelled at my child too much. Today I am the worst person on the planet. I mean, every parent, I think, does that. But every little thing like I, because of childhood trauma, which I don't like blaming it all on that, but does stem from something from my own, my own things that made me feel better. Packing lunches seems like such a trivial thing, but I have to do it because it makes me feel better as a parent.
Speaker 1:Mine, mine is I. I cannot miss a single event. I don't care what time of the day, I don't know, I don't care what day it is, I don't care if it's blowing up. And that's because and I know it's because when I was a kid, you know, I didn't have anyone to go to, like my all state choir performances, like my field hockey games. Whatever I did, nobody was there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I understand packing lunches, and that's not to say I judge other parents who don't pack lunches. I, just as a kid, I packed all my own lunches. I cleaned my house. I felt like an adult at a very young age. So if my kids wanted to buy, they could, but they won't eat any of the school lunch food because they're picky AF. So in general I do not. I'm people would probably label me as like a parent who does too much. My kids do not have chores outside of like cleaning their room.
Speaker 1:Are you the type of parent that's going to pack me a star cucumber?
Speaker 2:I tried it for a little bit and it didn't last long. Honestly, I did Cause I was like this is super cute. I love the idea and I also do think that you can sometimes trick your kids into eating better. So from that standpoint, I agree with that. However, I have four kids. That's too much and at the end of the day they're not going to eat it.
Speaker 1:So I'm like no, thanks, I did try it. It didn't work. Work, so it did not last. Yeah, thaddeus, we packed Thaddeus's lunch, except two days a week, because he wants to be part of the cool kids that buy lunch. He, he came up to me, he came up to us and he was like mommy Jack buys lunch in school and we plan that we're gonna buy lunch tomorrow, so can you buy me lunch? And this is what we're getting.
Speaker 2:I wish if my kids would eat the food but like my one, son just wants the ice cream. I know he's not going to eat it.
Speaker 1:I have to put notes, so I have notes on like Aiden Aubrey and Sophia Cannot buy snacks. I love that. I don't think we can do that. I love that. Sophia, I have her. I'm like cause she never knows when she wants to pack versus when she wants to buy. I'm like, girlfriend, you have a lunch box, we have everything you need. You figure that out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, stop it yeah, listen to me something on the I don't.
Speaker 1:I'm not ready for that exactly yeah, see yours don't have super duper opinions yet.
Speaker 2:I can't wait for you, so they do, but not I'm like I don't think it's at to necessarily to the level that yours might, because yours it's not the yeah, it's not the team. Mine have opinions on like video games and like what consoles we have, or like Pokemon right All the time. I can't keep up. They're like you know what region this is from. I'm like I don't even know what region I'm from. Okay, I don't, I don't know. Yeah, Literally.
Speaker 1:Shit, yeah, totally. So here would be my. Here'd be my other question, right, because we both have deep traumatic experiences. Yeah, how has, since you're going through school for social work right now, right? Yes, how has that changed your perspective on everything, now that you're going to school and learning about all of these things, especially like the attachment disorder? How has that changed how you view your childhood?
Speaker 2:I mean, it certainly makes me look at things more critically, but I do feel like it's allowed me to view things and kind of be like oh, you know, that wasn't okay. I think often like I didn't realize how chaotic my childhood was until into adulthood. For a while I thought most things were normal and then, as I was like talking to people, I thought our childhood was normal. I listen, I did I. I was like in DolLulu land Now, that's not to say I didn't think my parents or anything like that we're not, we're not cuckoo there, we go, okay, and that they didn't have their own set of issues, but I was like everybody's got, got some, some things. And then, as I got older, I was like, wow, these are, this is adding up, this is, um, this is a lot of things. Uh, you know, and you start to like see things more. You know, you see the treatment between different siblings and like how things start manifesting.
Speaker 2:So I would say I was living in Dulu land for a good while and then I met zach and his family and in general I was just like, wow, like when zach and I first met homeboy I don't even know how he's, because I was just like all the time like you must hate me, god. When he used a period in a text message, I was like I feel like that's a good fuck, you like yes. And he was like I'm finishing a sentence and I was like that's a good fuck you, yes. And he was like I'm finishing a sentence and I was like that's unacceptable. Please get out of here. I grew up in a household where we didn't say I love you.
Speaker 1:It was always like love ya, like very shortened expressions of Even if, and that's if we said it at all yes, exactly, let's make that crystal clear.
Speaker 2:I, even to this day, I struggle with like, what does love mean? I love my husband, I love my kids, but like I still all the time I'm like, what is that? What is the word love actually feel like? Cause I don't, you don't have a good sense growing up with it. Um, yeah, so I did. I lived in it for a while and then I didn't start therapy until it was 2022.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say 30, I think is when I was like happy birthday to myself. Let me set up oh, by the way, for anyone listening, we have the same birthday guys we are both Aries, so we are spitfires.
Speaker 2:I apologize Same day same, everything Not we're a year apart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're a year. I'm turning 32. I'm turning 34. Yeah, so we're two Okay.
Speaker 2:You and Lizzie are the same year. We're the same day.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yes. So in general, hold on, I got to rein myself back in. This is what I'm talking about. This is what happens when I started going to school.
Speaker 2:A, I think I tapped into more of my empathetic side, because you do. I wish that everybody under the sun could take a not necessarily a social work class, but like a sociology class, because I think people really underestimate. It's so easy to make assumptions about a lot of people. Um, yeah, I actually understand that. Like, some generational curses are not just within the family, they are within race, they are within your own city, your own town, your own area. Um, a lot plays into it.
Speaker 2:Like I have many family members that are like, oh well, those people could just go up and get jobs or like, not sell drugs. I don't think people understand how hard it is to overcome an entire lifestyle. When you're brought up seeing that every single family member of yours is doing this, you begin to think it's normal. You don't think just like I didn't. I thought my family was normal. So you think that everybody are the outcasts and you are normal and it takes a lot of rewiring to be like hold up, this is not okay. So I didn't really acknowledge or even address anything until I was 30. I did not start setting boundaries until literally a year ago, so I've been in fight or flight for at least decades of my life.
Speaker 1:I didn't start really doing deep work until I met Joe.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So trust me, otherwise I'd still be in that fight or flight like sympathetic state fucking myself up completely.
Speaker 2:And I think I went from being an avoidant, attached person to an anxious attached and I'm like working myself out of it now. But for a while, like Zach, 100% knew of the family dynamics and things I was going through. But there's a lot that like I kept under wraps because I thought if I just forget about it and I'll get out, it won't, it does not affect me.
Speaker 1:Right, if we can just ignore, put it in Pandora. I like to like, I like to use it with my box. Put it in Pandora's box. But let me tell you that box is going to come unlocked when you least expect it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So going through social work, I know one of my professors immediately was like listen, you're going to start looking at yourself and your family in different ways. You're going to like be hypercritical and it's not that I don't tend to think that I'm critical of other people, but I do think that in healing journeys you find that you just might be more aware of what's going on and you have decided to take your blinders off and you have to make a disconnection of. Like you might feel like the black sheep or you know, the loner and super isolated for some time. But it is not your, it is not your burden If other people around you choose to not do what you want. Like you have to be willing to accept that for some time. You're going through it because you are deciding to be in a state where you are trying to better yourself. Yes, and it's hard.
Speaker 1:That's why people don't do it look, I am the black sheep of the family. I have always been the black sheep. I am very proud to be the back black sheep, yeah, but I mean I've had to go through some shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah To be the black sheep and you're also going to go through it while people are still invalidating and still those people who harmed and caused the harm on you are not willing to go through it. You're going to find yourself still having to dig yourself out while also not being validated.
Speaker 1:And I think that's huge to say, because I feel like most people are in therapy because other people won't fix themselves 100% you.
Speaker 2:I say to Zach all the time I'm in therapy for the people who will not go to therapy yes, exactly, I can't. So, like Zach, at the end of the day, I tell him this all the time Like I'll be like you. Him this all the time, like I'll be like you, thanks for being the best. He's like. I literally just woke up like I did nothing and I'm like, I love that. Uh, I'm like, but uh, you're dealing and picking up the pieces of like what other people have done, so like no, really the day, it's like he's the only one who will validate things and make me feel less crazy. I mean, I have very good friends who also do that, but Zach is like living in the day to day, like overwhelming emotions all the time. So he is the one that is front and center and having to deal with all of my family's wondrous, wondrous journeys.
Speaker 1:Now, now swinging into like marriage and how you know know child trauma affects that beyond. Zach is just amazing and he's like a needle in a haystack. Let's remove that for a second because, yeah, men are not like, like we don't have. Nobody has a Zach and a Joe like I. I use that interchangeably.
Speaker 2:I don't. I still, to this day, do not know how or why that everyone asks me like how did you get him?
Speaker 1:or I'm like I had every red flag in the book. Yeah, I came with a swarm of red flags. I have no clue. Like what do you what? I don't see that blinder. Yeah, he had. He must have had some huge what. He is almost legally blind, so maybe that that's what it is go to the eye doctors.
Speaker 2:People, that's all you need to find. Say who is? Listen, we need to work from here. Zach is legally blind without contacts. Yep, that's his old man status. That's what it is except for. Is no younger than you?
Speaker 1:yeah, okay there's an age difference. It's fine. You have a huge age difference. When, when you first met zach and I, you told me how old he was, I was like he'll say come on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will say so. A lot of people will dog him all the time for the fact that when I was 18 he was 26 and I understand that in most circumstances that's kind of well. I will say I was out of high school, because a lot of people are like what, um, I was out of high school, graduated and in general, at my state of 18, when I tell you I felt like a 45 year old woman who had graduated, I did because I felt like I was so, so my mom going through her own her own trauma and things of that nature, I, she, I was placed in the role that she was placed in, which is why I feel I give her more grace than maybe the other half of my parentage, because I do understand that my mom was put in a place where she was the mother figure, like if you ask any like aunt Annie, she will tell you that, like my mom was put in a place where she was the mother figure, like, if you ask any like aunt Annie, she will tell you that, like my mom helped raise her, she was the one that would like take her to things and my mom put me in that role. I don't think she did it with malicious intent, but I do think that she subconsciously just fell into that comfortableness and I was the one that was the one that had to take it.
Speaker 2:So in that, I became hyper fixated on trying to do anything to prove my worth, which included making sure I was available anytime there needed to be childcare, getting straight A's in school, working when I was eligible. So when I graduated high school, I felt like I had already been in my midlife crisis, yup, and I was like exhausted, like I didn't know what I wanted to do in life because I could never focus on myself to even to this day. I mean, I do really want to go for social work, but it's taken me a long time to pinpoint what I like, what my hobbies are, what I could see myself doing for the rest of my life, because I was constantly on other people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how has your trauma, your childhood trauma, affected Zach, if at all, and how has Zach helped you? You know, give you that space, give you that grace to like work through it as well.
Speaker 2:So I mean our marriage in general and I get a lot of slack for this all the time. This is one of my I don't want to say it's my favorite thing to say. I really don't like when people say marriage is hard work. I don't, because you know what's hard work Welding underwater for, like Exxon Mobil, that's hard work. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be in a marriage that's related. No, underwater welding in a marriage that's related. No, underwater welding okay, no.
Speaker 2:Hard work is where you realize you have to do your own work and then learning to communicate as two adults. That is is. I wouldn't say it's. It can be hard for yourself, um, but if you're open, communicating well, it shouldn't feel like work. You should want to do that in order to continue. I mean, you're going to you're essentially, when you get married, saying that you're going to live with this person for the rest of your life. You know that you guys are going to be changing, you're going to be evolving. So to think that you don't have to learn new ways of communicating and adapting is kind of asinine. But I don't at all like to say that marriage is hard work, because I don't. I wouldn't have gotten married if I thought that it was going to be hard.
Speaker 2:Do we have disagreements? Like of course we do, but we talk about them. I think you and I've talked. Maybe I'm wrong because I remember a lot of conversations, but um, in general, we have now realized that the way we communicate is different. Like, zach needs more time than I do to like process because he doesn't want to say something he's going to regret. So his brain is like constant. He's very analytical. Zach is very logical, analytical. Um, joe's just out. Joe is just out so that's me.
Speaker 2:I am like I need to resolve this immediately, it's fine. And if I, if I think of something later, I'll bring it up again. And he's like you should take some time. So, in general what I say we go to bed angry, no, but we will go to bed knowing like, if we don't resolve it immediately, that there's a plan to resolve it and discuss it at set date. So do we resolve it before you go to bed? Sometimes, not always, but we'll say let's think about this and we will discuss it tomorrow or when we're both in like a calm down state of mind. I'm not there yet. I mean, it's tough. It's taken us a lot of years to get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am. If we have a disagreement, which is very rare, because I still consider us in to be in in the honeymoon stage, to be seven years in and we haven't have we had to go through shit, Absolutely. But I am a firm believer of I don't ever want to go to bed mad at you and we'll do what. I don't care if it revolves. Take, you know, staying up till one, two o'clock in the morning to work it out, because we're going to figure this shit out Cause you're going to bed next to me. I'm not going to bed angry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get it. I mean, it's a. It's taken us a long time to get to where, like, because, for a while being, I always blame this on my Aries side You're very like, you're stubborn, stubborn. He is more stubborn, I will point it out. Tauruses are more stubborn than Aries, and that's what he is. Um, with me having to, like, resolve it super fast. It was then not being respectful of his desire to not, so we had to kind of come yeah, so it was not immediate, and for a while there he was doing what I wanted and resolving it, but we found that it wasn't working because he's immediately thinking things when, like, he needs time. So we've come to a middle ground and it doesn't happen often. Um, and we are not the kind of people like I grew up in a household where my parents hated each other, my children. We don't argue in front of them, we never. We don't yell in front of them, we don't do that.
Speaker 1:I read, going through, you know, psychology classes and parenting classes, that it's good for kids not to see. Yeah, okay, I was going to say they see us argue, but we're not like degrading each other in front of each other, and if they see us argue, we are making it a point to make sure that they see us make up too.
Speaker 2:Yes, so we will have conflict resolution in front of them, but we never raise our voices. We don't bash the other one. I grew up where parents constantly were like talking down on the other, um, um, when we're in a disagreement. If it's not that like, let's say, we have a disagreement, then one of us has to get the kids on the bus. Clearly it's not a good time to have that discussion. It's not like we're just gonna fake it till we make it, but it's not like we can't be respectful of one another and sure shit done um, but kids are still.
Speaker 2:You still gotta get the kids like, yes, our kids are always the priority. But one of my things was like I grew up watching my children, my parents, fight, and like they have to learn how to work through conflict. So I do agree with that. I just know that there are times where I try to acknowledge that he needs more time. But I do think that it's respectful, like if he is ready to have a conversation, then it's possible we can resolve it at one night. If he's like I need a night, let's talk tomorrow. That's the plan, then that is what we will agree to. But it took us a long time to get there. But it's just like you have to find what works best for your relationship and like the middle ground, because if one person feels they're getting left behind and that they're not being heard, you're going to have a whole other mess waterfall on top of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, jeez, totally yeah, um. So I guess here would be my other question for you what thinking about? Obviously, everything we've been through as kids and adults. What do you think was the most challenging part of your, your, like, healing process? Well, I'm still going through that.
Speaker 2:Um, it's, it's a lifelong process a lot of my thing is that I've realized a lot of I mean, I am not afraid to say that like I have I'm working on like low self-worth, low confidence issues, and that all stems from childhood things, and like, while Zach does the exact opposite, it's very hard.
Speaker 2:It's like if you get a thousand compliments but one negative thing is said, your way you're going to hone in on the one negative thing. So, as hard as that works, to try to resolve that, like I also need to put in the work and the efforts. Um, so a lot of my things on my healing journey I'm finding are things that I essentially need to do for myself. I need to acknowledge where they stem from and really try to overcome those. And I have in some ways at this point, like, if I know where something, once I acknowledge where it comes from, I then it's not that I necessarily forget it, but I stop allowing it to affect me in the same way, yeah, do I have good days on body positivity? I do, but I also have negative ones, but I don't have as many negative ones. I know that now I'm just human and I have days where I'm like, yeah, girl, you look good, and other days I'm like absolutely not.
Speaker 1:Every time I see that mirror selfie you take, I'm like damn girl. Oh, I like jeans girl.
Speaker 2:Whereas before it was like a constant negative thing, because in my childhood I was told things that gave me a negative outlook on myself girl, I think the biggest.
Speaker 1:If anyone wants to see me go from zero to a hundred, the quickest it's, tell me I look like my mother.
Speaker 2:I hate when I you want to see. Not that I'm saying that either of you are ugly. I'm saying I'm skeeving out just because I don't. I don't like when people compare me. No one likes to be compared to your traumas, essentially no absolutely not.
Speaker 1:And considering it's like her and I, we are V&A identical, you are, we are. And it's just like Sophia and I are identical, yes, everyone's, everyone's like. Oh my God, the jeans are so damn strong. I'm like I made Sophia in a Petri dish Um science Aiden. Looks like you, aiden. Yup, yes, thaddeus doesn't. I was a vessel for that. Um, aubrey doesn't either. I was just a vessel there too, so I got 50 shots.
Speaker 1:Yeah, listen, being compared to the person that has destroyed me time and time again, it is an is probably the biggest trigger and it's still the one thing that I haven't addressed. Yeah, cause I just I haven't.
Speaker 2:I hear it, and I'm not saying that there is any positive things to take away, but like one thing no matter what my mom and I's relationship is, my mom is always known for being very funny, so if someone's going to compare me.
Speaker 2:I wish that that's what they hone in on. Like, if you're going to tell me I remind you of my mom, I hope it's for her humor, I hope it's for like, when she is in that savior complex, like having a good-natured uh, but how I mean, look at mine and I literally don't know anything positive that I could say, that I could attach to that right.
Speaker 2:It could also be that you're not in the mindset to like even be there yet. Like I do think it takes some time to like really dissolve everything that you've been through in order to get to a place Like I think I talk and you can correct me if I'm wrong but I think I talk to my mom more than you probably do. I haven't talked to her in years. Yes, so, like in general, you are still in the thick. While you're not talking to her. You're still in the thick of like you have no closure, um, like no resolution. So it is very normal for you to be like I have nothing positive, because look how it ended, it's, it's big sense, whereas I talk to my mom like she's, she's present in my life to some degree and like is involved with my children, so I can, I can, see the positive things. Um, so now I would have similar feelings to you if someone compared me to my, my dad, because, like that is just like another. That's a whole other trauma thing that one doesn't even bother him.
Speaker 1:If someone said, hey, yo like you look just like joe or you act like joe, or anything that has to, I'm like yeah, I also think it comes down to who hurt you more so I I think you're right, because he was never around. I didn't meet him, him until I was eight.
Speaker 2:I mean I told you a long time ago. That one thing not to glorify because, listen, we both have the same feelings about your father Biological, yes, but like I was envious of you for the fact that he chose to walk away. Because I instead was left with a parent who was involved but never gave the appearance that he wanted to be involved. So I was left always feeling like I had to overproduce or I was never going to be good enough and I always had to meet some like unannounced meter to him and it's almost like I wish that was like me and my biological mom.
Speaker 1:Like I had to be the star student, I had to be on. I had my biological mom. Like I had to be the star student, I had to be on. I had to be president. I had to have straight A's. I had to go to all AP classes like I had to be top of the class and the nerd of the school and the best of the best of everything that I did.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I do think. I think you in general, it's like innate in our, in us, that you are going to. It's going to be hard to essentially take anything positive away from a relationship that hurt you more. Yeah, and if you're not going to be able to find the positive things in that which I mean it's hard, but it's one of those things that if you can at least accept that and try to let it go as best you can, um, then you don't necessarily have to hold on to those feelings. You can acknowledge like I'm not happy in this. And also, I think a lot of people put pressure on forgiveness and I think you don't have to forgive in order to get over it for your, for your own self.
Speaker 1:I, yeah, I, I don't think, I do think you there's to me, there's a degree that you have to forgive, not not, like you know, forgive to forget, type of thing. Yeah, you have to be able to understand like, okay, this has happened, you have to be with, okay with it, right, regardless? Yes, yeah, that I do think, because of the At the end of the day.
Speaker 2:She called you today and said I'm sorry, do you think you would take that genuinely? No, yes, so in like that's. I feel like a lot of people emphasize an apology and I'm like an apology only matters if it's met with accountability.
Speaker 1:And some type of change Like yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, and if it's not, then you have to understand that you are not the problem. It is not your problem to change, it is that person, so you need to forgive yourself for holding on to it. I think forgiveness for yourself is much more important than forgiveness from others right spent the last 14 years trying to build a relationship with my dad that essentially left me 14 years in the gutter. And I'm just like why did I do that? Like why?
Speaker 1:And that's kind of why I'm I'm ecstatic that I didn't put that effort with Joe. I, I I'm like, no, it's, it's not worth my time. Not husband Joe, not husband Joe. God Jesus, I'm surrounded by Joe's.
Speaker 2:So funny, I know not husband joe. Yeah, not husband joe. God jesus, I'm surrounded by joes. So funny, I know it's the same thing with steve's. So whenever we talk about steve's, yeah, differentiate which steve. I'm like girl.
Speaker 1:Girl, yeah, red flag just gotta stay away, but with you know I'm. I'm grateful that I I never felt the need to amend that relationship Like, okay, you've been gone 18 years, you were rejected. Maybe two or three years out of my 33 years of existence, I'm good, I don't need you. I don't want you. Toxicity I think kicking toxic people out of your life is a whole other ballgame that a lot of people need to do and they're afraid to do because you know it comes down to, blood is thicker than water and blah I've told my therapist countless times um, I think the term old school has become a trigger for me, because every person I know that says old school and like oh, that's your parent, you have to respect them, that's your grandparent.
Speaker 2:I'm like listen, that's my title. Yes, that's not how I choose to lead my life. If you, my energy, going to 2024 and with the help of my beautiful therapist, um, is that I will give energy where it is reciprocated. It doesn't mean it has to be 50, 50 and you need to be up my ass. It means if I'm giving, I can acknowledge when you may need 80% of me and you only have 20% to give, but when I need that 80 from you, you will give, and it doesn't mean I need constant anything from you. Again, I set the bar very low. I don't expect much.
Speaker 1:If you set the standards low. I've come to terms with setting the standards low. You can't be disappointed.
Speaker 2:So eventually and I will find myself where I like will start to edge the bar a little higher. And then I did that, yeah. So then I feel like I'm at ground zero. But you know, if you're giving me a little bit to work with, I tend to be a rather forgiving person with some people, if I at least see the minimal effort is being made or like accountability is being taken. Um, but I think it's hard for people to cut ties. I mean, it's uncomfortable, to say the least.
Speaker 1:No one wants to do it.
Speaker 2:Um, I just didn't. I'm already I go through. Every day is different. One day I'm like I'm very happy in my decision to do that. The next day I'm like, wow, I'm such a piece of shit.
Speaker 2:So it ebbs and flows, um, but for me, I feel like my stress has now manifested obviously in like becoming epileptic, um, and it was just like a wake up call, that that like I need to cut things out of my life that aren't serving me a positive purpose. Yeah, and it's a hard thing to even pinpoint and realize what it may be. But if I feel like I've given a lot of effort, now I'm just tired, I'm exhausted, I can't do it, and now my doctors have given me the go-ah, so I'm like sayonara, peace out. Yeah, I'm in my rest period now. I just was reading about this today.
Speaker 2:I took off my first semester of college for the past year and I mean, granted, my plan is to go back in the fall, but in general, I've looked at Zach and I'm like I just feel exhausted, like my body has been in the ringer for decades, and like now, like I'm just like I never feel like I've gotten enough rest. I feel like I can't get enough rest and I'm not physically tired. It's like my body is just like drained.
Speaker 1:Look, the body keeps score. We went earlier. That body's like girl, yeah, you need to chill. Yeah, now, if you could give, if you could go back in time and give yourself like one piece of advice, what would it be?
Speaker 2:it would have to do something with I. I don't want to say forgiveness, but maybe not necessarily expending so much like not giving so much of yourself away in every relationship, because I feel like I've spent a lot of time. Every time you compromise your own needs, you're giving yourself a piece away and, at the end of the day, if you don't get those pieces back, you are left an unfinished puzzle. Yeah, you don't get those pieces back. You are left an unfinished puzzle. Yeah, so I think I gave a lot of my time and energy very early on to many, many people and I did not stand up for myself nearly as much as I wish that I had done.
Speaker 2:Um, and looking back, I wish that that was different. I've started getting better. I've started trying to do boundaries, but at this point I think in like setting boundaries, I've gotten a lot of backlash. So, looking back, if I had said this early on, they would have hated me regardless. So why did I spend the last X amount of years of my life not having those boundaries with the same outcome?
Speaker 1:yep, nope, absolutely. Now here would be my other question right, because we've gone through hell and back. We have blossomed into what I consider perfect fucking. We are fucking badass. We are badass compared to what we were provided when we were brought into this world. Yep, if, when we think about long term and self-care because I feel like self-care takes a huge priority into healing what type of self-care practices have you found most helpful as you process through the different emotions and memories and things like that, beyond therapy or EDM or EDMR and tapping I mean even as simple as like actually showering, like we're going down to the bare minimum.
Speaker 2:For so many people that deal with anxiety and depression, brushing your teeth seems like a chore that you cannot accomplish when I was in. I realize this now, but when I was young, I was 100% an undiagnosed child with depression and anxiety, and it manifested in um, I wouldn't shower, I would, I would, just I'm like I don't want to do this. And instead of you know, looking at my surroundings, I was met with um, you know people who would say, while you're disgusting, like you're smelly and granted, to put it in perspective, I was probably like eight or nine years old. Yeah, I was given do you remember is it the American girl? Uh? Book of hygiene. Yes, okay, yeah, I was given that when I wouldn't shower and they were like you need to get yourself together and I'm like I mean I don't know why I don't want to shower. Now I know that like homegirl just did not care for herself, I was like I'm not worth it, I'm just so sad.
Speaker 2:Then we moved into high school. I went I look back at some of my pictures where my eyes literally look like sunken and black and I was not eating, not because I had an eating disorder. I never felt hungry. I didn't feel it's like. I always felt full. I felt like I was going through something. There was a refusal to take me to the doctors and then, when I went to the doctors, the doctor then told my mom how children always lie and they're probably just pregnant. And I was here. I am terrified because I'm like do you know my mother? Do you know my mother? You know my mother? Terrifying, and she's sitting over here, like you, pregnant. I'm like I don't even have a boyfriend, like I don't what is? I came here for stomach issues. I'm losing weight.
Speaker 1:Obviously it was anxiety and depression and you got your period really freaking early too. You were the first you were the first.
Speaker 2:I think lizzie did beat me, but we got them around the same time, okay, I I remember you.
Speaker 1:I thought you had it before lizzie because I was in sixth grade.
Speaker 2:No, yeah lizzie will always remind me that she got it first. Our family's very competitive in nature, even when it comes to periods. Okay, I'm over it, so she will get the win in where she can Okay.
Speaker 1:We'll have to bring her in too. Her side no.
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding. Duke it out. Who's period? Mine, no, no. So I know that I had a lot of physical ailments early on and even just like the small wins that you can get, take them wherever you can. Brushing your teeth may be difficult, but, like, just acknowledge the wins that you have for the day, I don't care how small it is.
Speaker 1:Getting out of bed, uh like, yes, it's for some outside to walk is one of my the ones I push on my clients the most because they don't want to leave the house.
Speaker 2:Well, most of that is probably cause. Then they have to sit alone in their thoughts, and they don't want it.
Speaker 1:That I am known I am so is my favorite thing to do, because I feel so strongly that women's brains, whether you're a mother or not, just genetically work DNA. Our mind is constantly on the go, and constantly on the go. You know what else it is.
Speaker 2:Childhood trauma. Yep, that's what it is. Yep, thank you, I appreciate you. I do think that women more like, understand it more, whereas men repress it more, right? Yes?
Speaker 1:They have to be thinking about it, whereas women will right it is childhood trauma but I literally every, every client that walks through my front door, the first thing I'm doing is I want you to sit in silence and I can't tell you how many people push. I can't do it, I can't do it. I can't do it. It has taken me. It has taken me years. I have three years three years. So far I can sit in silence for 15 minutes, and the other day I did it for 20.
Speaker 1:I literally it was pouring down rain the other night and I just opened the windows and I was so overstimulated what was that? I love the sound of brain. I do too, but I was so overstimulated for the day I just opened the windows and I laid flat on the ground and I sat there for 20 minutes. I feel like I probably fell asleep too in that, but sat the longest like no guided meditation. I just focused on my breathing and I think that's been probably one of the biggest game changers for me healing wise, as well as being able to sit with my own.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, I mean. Even I said to Zach last night that even something as simple, like I'm one of those who like the TV to be on when I'm sleeping. I can fall asleep with the TV on. But that stems from a fact of because I'm afraid, if I wake up and the TV is not on, I will then be stuck in my own thoughts and I won't be able to go back to sleep. But it's like this innate I sleep with the TV on. Is that why, too? I mean most people that constantly need something going on? Or if you're like I'm going to take a few minutes to rest but you're scrolling, it's because you have a fear of, like, actually having to think about, like, your stresses of that day, or you don't want to do scrolling.
Speaker 1:That's what I call it Doom scrolling.
Speaker 2:So if you do, it's not that you have like I mean, obviously there are certain things that can come in like you're procrastinating on doing something, but for a lot of people it is that you, if you have those moments, you don't want to spend it thinking about what maybe you could work through. You're just like I'm going to be here and then obviously time just gets away from you.
Speaker 1:And then you just keep scrolling, yeah, you just keep, you keep going. And then an hour, two hours are by and you're like, oh crap, it's time for bed.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you wonder why you can't fall asleep because you've been so overstimulated. Yeah, and then you get in a cycle. Yes, but I think for healing, like recognizing small wins is very, very important, and don't set yourself up for like major successes early on. I think when you you try to tackle too many things, you'll then find yourself where you're like oh well, I messed up on one, so like I'm just going to give up on the rest. But with someone who might be experiencing anxiety or depression or similar mental related things, small wins are easy to find them. Yup, yup it just so that's helped me. I I try to do a lot of self care things for myself, like I'm, I'm very into um, I wash my face like twice a day and like I take, I put effort into those because that's how what I like to do for myself. Yeah, zach will put the kids to bed, which is like an insane thought to many people when they're Especially men especially men.
Speaker 2:They're like, oh my God, he bathed them too. Like this is weird. Like look at the dad, so weird. But at the end of the day, like he will allow me to go take the time I need and I will go, like I'll say goodnight to the children, I will go sit in my room and do whatever, does not matter, or I'll go run an errand. I'll go run an errand, I'll go get my nails done, do whatever, and he'll put them to bed so that I can do whatever the hell I want to do with that time. Yeah, I don't have four kids going over me and sometimes, like I take advantage and I get a lot of stuff done, or other times I literally just sit on my bed and there's.
Speaker 1:It's the same for man, and I think that's one thing that has helped me the most especially with having Joe around is he has given me that time, yeah, and there's been days, like years ago, when my thyroid was messing up and I couldn't do anything because I was sleeping all the time. But he, he allowed me to just be and figure my shit out and gave me the grace that I needed, which now I'm just like yo let's go. Let's go Like you want to leave Great, I want to leave Great. Like it's been super helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, having supportive people around you definitely changes how you're going to manage the things in your life or what you want to accomplish or look into.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so here would be my. Here's my other question for you. If heaven forbid, someone's listening right now and they've gone through some shit like us and they need advice, what pieces of advice would you share with others working to overcome their childhood trauma would?
Speaker 2:you share with others working to overcome their childhood trauma. I mean I always I I hate to sound, I say this to everybody Um, I do think that there's a lot of value in therapy, or at least giving the chance now in saying that I do think you have to find a lot of people are very quick to like they'll do one session and be like it wasn't for me. But I think not only do you need to not go into these kind of things thinking you're going to get immediate results. I'm in a year and a half and, like my therapist will still call me out on shit and I'm like, come on, carry this, we're not doing this right now. And she'll be like let's sit in that. I'm like, let's not, we'll get that next week, it's fine.
Speaker 2:You can't expect immediate results when it comes to working through things. It's going to take time, it's going to feel uncomfortable, it doesn't mean you're not progressing and honestly, I feel like when you're sitting in it and feeling, your worst is when you are knowing that you are going to get where you want to be, but you have to allow yourself to get through that. I'm not a crier by any means. Listen. I get yelled at for all the time. I know it helps your nervous system. That's not how we were raised. We are raised emotions.
Speaker 1:Yep, we are to show and Joe makes fun of me all the time for this, because he is the only one that sees emotion from me. He is the only one that I've I've allowed to see that, yeah, and it's so very minimal, so very minimal, and he's like. You know you aren't always a bitch and you really he's like. You really need to let people know that. You know there's this blunt forward side to you, but you have a heart.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a protective shield, it is because weakness to me is I need to be. I was always right. You know, we were raised. You need to be strong, you can't show weakness and you have to be on top of your shit all of like all the time. So he's always on me saying how I need to show more emotion, because I have a lot of emotion and I love to love and I think it's because I wasn't shown love that I like to overwhelmingly love people and he's just. He's always like you need to let the wall down, let the world see what I see in you and it be a 180 and I'm like nah, nah, I like being blunt forward stop it let's not talk about my wall?
Speaker 2:stay up. My therapist said something. She's like you're very good at building walls. I was like is that why I love brick walls, though, like if I could have them all in my house? She's like, yeah, probably. And I'm like wow, I didn't think this would go to my interior decorating. But like, thank you so much for pointing that out. You love that for me.
Speaker 1:Yep it's why I like building with stone lately, because I'm telling you that's.
Speaker 2:I was like I never thought about it like that. And she's like you're great at building walls and I'm like thanks, okay, I guess you need to take that wallpaper down. I'm still. I'm just going to write you know, acceptance, just I can't, it's too much. I'm like this is, of course, my life, like therapists that will point out all the time. She'll just like look at me and I'm like I know what you're thinking and she'll tell me you know, most people that probably just told me what you told me would be sobbing right now and I'm like well, maybe one day I'll get there, that is not today. One day, maybe Zach is I don't mean granted, he could correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like he's probably seen me cry, maybe like five or six times, two of which when family members died, but it happens very seldom, because that is still I was gonna.
Speaker 1:I've seen Joe cry once in almost a decade and I've he's probably seen me cry three times. Yeah, Three, yeah. It does not happen very often.
Speaker 2:I will cry in the shower by myself, and usually when I say he's seen me, it's more like he's heard me, as I'm like under the covers, like nothing's going on, yeah, I lock myself in the bathroom, in the tub and I don't know I'm cutting onions. He's like you're, you're in the bathroom, though I'm like, yeah, so, yeah, yeah, it's not. I will hide that. But yet, like, I have other siblings who have no problem. But we all have our own childhoods and our own version of the parents that we grew up with.
Speaker 2:I feel like all of your siblings have gotten a different setup Absolutely, absolutely and like even now we can still compare notes and it can kind of I don't say it's to like anyone's fault. I always say we all have our own experiences. I never want to invalidate any of my siblings right um own childhoods that they went through, but there was unequal treatment between all of us and we all had different versions of our parents um. But it can be a very invalidating thing when someone experienced something or is then saying like, doesn't hold that belief, like instead they'll just challenge, like oh, that didn't happen to you, right than you were given. Whether that be good or bad, they have a different perception and like that's okay, you don't need to prove to them which is better, which is worse. Again, competition in our family makes me go.
Speaker 1:I'm very competitive man. Let me tell you, I am very it's competition is great.
Speaker 2:It's like never want to compare people is. I'm like when I'm telling you my childhood trauma, I'm not telling you so that you feel the need to over listen. If you want to win this one, go ahead. I don't I don't need you to beat me out on that, okay well, that's.
Speaker 1:that's like when. When my siblings and I get together, we're always shits and giggles who had the worst childhood? Because all of us got a different version of parents and we're like yo, I did this, but I experienced this. I'm like why are we competing with them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and my mom is in the chat as we're actively doing this. So I always think of the meme of Homer Homer Simpson, like backing into the bushes, oh, got to give it to Pam, she does. I mean, she takes it like a champ and she's just like, at least she takes it like a champ. Listen for anything. I always say my mom and I's relationship is complicated. There's love there. It's complicated. We're working through it. Was she the perfect parent? No, she was not.
Speaker 1:But I mean through it um was she the? Perfect parent? No, she was not, but I mean at least your mom wasn't compared to like and and taylor. Who is it who got married eight times? Um, we just talked about this and, yeah, we did.
Speaker 2:Elizabeth taylor, elizabeth, no, I think it is elizabeth taylor. Yeah, yeah, middle name is actually ann, but she shows up when she's needed and like that's, that's all I can ask. Again, bar set very low. If you show up when I need you most, that's a win for me. Yep, I don't need you to do anything else, but that's fine when I need you. Yes, and I don't like if I can't go on any dates until my children are like 18, that is fine with me. I don't like asking for help Again, childhood trauma I can't do it.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's Joe and I, we we don't have the support from his side or my side, so we didn't do a honeymoon and our dates are. You know, we have to take off of work to be able to go on dates.
Speaker 2:We'll do like when the kids are at school. We'll do like dates because then I don't have to ask anyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't ask nobody, for both of it's, both of us, which is really bad yeah it happens, I'm like yeah, no, like no, I I will figure this out on my own. I was putting this bless you a situation.
Speaker 2:I will figure I will find myself out of it but in general I don't think it's unhealthy to not like. I get why some people say you need to learn to rely on people, but I don't think it's unhealthy that you like have to go out and try to find people necessarily like if you guys feel comfortable doing things the way that you're doing like. I don't think it's unhealthy that you don't go on date nights at at dinner time and that it's only when it's convenient is our babysitter now.
Speaker 1:I love that Sophia babysits, like usually it's a weekend that Aiden's working and Aubrey's you know it's not Aubrey's weekend with us, but Sophia will watch, thaddeus will order them pizza. They do it like a brother, sister, dateister, date because they're literally inseparable. Oh, I love that. And Sophia's getting to the point of can you pay me now to watch him? You're like, come on, I'm like for real girl. You had the audacity, she's hustling.
Speaker 2:Listen, I understand it. I did the same thing at her age. I'm like you want me to watch the siblings. What do I get for it? That's what? It didn't always work out for me, but I did try.
Speaker 1:I'm like, we'll buy you dessert, we'll bring you dessert home fine.
Speaker 2:At this point is it like Sephora trip. She's like, how about an Ulta?
Speaker 1:and then like, it's fine, we'll call it even let's not even get into her skincare routine, because her skincare routine costs more than mine and I'm older.
Speaker 2:Okay, I can't. I told Zach I'm like just wait, just wait till Gemma's all ready, Wait till.
Speaker 1:Gemma wants Ulta trips and wants a full blown skincare routine. Okay, you're going to be fine, she's the only girl.
Speaker 2:So I did tell him he's lucky for that. He's lucky for that. He can thank me for that later.
Speaker 1:I mean he can thank himself. He's kind of the one that dictates chromatography.
Speaker 2:Well, I think I told you that I did do the ovulation trick with Gemma, so he calls her my science project. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it worked. So he says that she is all because of me, not because of him. He's like I showed up when you told me to I did what I needed. That was you, not me, yep.
Speaker 1:Yep, nope, I'm here for it, but yeah, um see, I have nothing else beyond. You know, trauma sucks, heal from trauma. It takes time, yes, and sometimes gives you seizures, so it's fine gives you seizures, so it's fine. Yeah, sometimes you get so extra, like you, that you just have to take it to a medical level. Oh, it's great. You just want to. You're competitive.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's what it is listen, if anyone wants to take my medical ailments. I say all the time because Tommy is like nothing, nothing can kill a Grosso. I'm like, listen, I'm the only Grosso that has been affected thus far and I need it to stop. I need I'm not saying I need you to take it on. It needs to cease. Okay, yeah, it's a lot, but again, this is what your body keeps score. And in general, both my therapist and neurologist have both said yeah, girl, stress is your big trigger. So, um, we need to eliminate that. My therapist still to this day cannot get over that. My neurologist said that, um, stress and sleep are my two biggest triggers. That's for everyone. Yeah, but um, my form of epilepsy typically manifests in early adulthood. When kids start going to college, they start to sleep and I know I was like is that what you got out of that?
Speaker 1:what you got, you had an ek 24 hour, ekg or eeg.
Speaker 2:No, no, I learned that before the eg. Oh shit, because of the like, the symptoms I was having were predominantly in the morning. They were like you have this um or this form of epilepsy, and essentially they were like most people. It manifests when they go to college. They start drinking, partying your dog's so cute and um, that's when it all occurs, because then you're putting more stress on the body, staying up late, not sleeping well, and I was having children at that age and I had a husband who was a very active parent, so like we both got adequate sleep. Yeah, you always made sure to help.
Speaker 2:So, and again, I was in fight or flight for years and so it did not manifest to me until after, um, um, after my cancer diagnosis.
Speaker 2:Um, because at that point I then, like that was probably one of the first times I think, I broke down and was like wow, cool it, zach lost a sister to thyroid cancer for my diagnosis, yep. So like the emotions were like I looked at my doctor, I was like you're going to tell my husband that I now have what his sister had that just passed away last month, right, and she's like you probably don't have cancer. And I'm like, no, I know my luck it's 100% going to be cancer, yep. And after that, I mean, I got it out pretty quickly and that was the tailspin Cause I think I finally started addressing, addressing all the things in my life. I started therapy within a I forget if it was the same year or that year, because it all starts to blend together. I've been through so much shit, but I would say more recently is when I finally was like I'm going to address everything that has come my way. It only took me 30 years.
Speaker 1:Better late than never. Better late than never Better late than never.
Speaker 2:So you know, I'm here Surviving, not thriving.
Speaker 1:That's my motto for life. No, you're thriving. You're moving the needle towards thriving.
Speaker 2:Oh, we're trying, little by little Listen, you know, just cutting people off and having fun great, that's all we we can do you know, now I'm just looking for silence, that's all every day, every day, every day.
Speaker 1:With four kids. How we do it, I don't know we'll get somewhere.
Speaker 2:But it is interesting. I would just say that everyone needs to acknowledge. I'm not saying you need to go cutting people out of your life or look for bad things. I know with my therapy and my therapist.
Speaker 1:She does not like diagnosing people with specific things because then you tend to rabbit hole yourself and then you want to Google everything and figure out all the symptoms and go down rabbit holes and it makes you worse.
Speaker 2:But it also, like she has always said, she feels strongly that a lot of things can be explained through our experiences throughout childhood, things that our families experienced, such through generational trauma. So, while you may be quick to be like I have ADD, really it could be that you're procrastinating because of how you learned to self-regulate as a child, or you grew up in a chaotic childhood so you don't know how to sit still and be bored or do nothing.
Speaker 1:Um, so I just I just read a study actually about kids and being bored, how kids don't like to be bored and how, if they don't, if they're not ever bored, that cuts off their creativity, it cuts off self-regulation, it cuts off exact everything that they're supposed to be as an adult. Yes, so kids have to be bored and they need to be bored.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good for them. It allows them to also feel independent and like they can choose what they want to do, like if my kids are bored, I'm like all right, well, you have X, y and Z crafts to do. You can take ownership of how you want to spend the next hour of your time. Now you get to make the decision about what you're going to do with that. If that means you just want to veg out on the couch, then like more power to you. I'm not going to stop you, but you now have the tools to go and do something for the next hour. So I don't want to. I don't want to hear you bored. Go draw, go read, go do something. I'm very happy that my children are book nerds. I will forever. They do love that. It costs me too much money. It does. It really is Second and Charles great. Take them there.
Speaker 1:I know it's like 45 minutes away. I always thought you were a PA and that store gives me anxiety because it is not. It's not the most organized. It is is organized Cause I immediately get anxiety, I get overwhelmed and I leave a meet. I just start right out the door.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me and my chaotic childhood. I tend to have more. I love things in order because of that, but HomeGoods brings me down to the roots of that chaos. So I'm like I feel almost like I'm thriving. I'm like, okay, once a week, this is fine. Wow, feels like mom's house. She knows, it's okay, it's all right. Okay, you know, I mean, technically, I'll give blame to both parents. So I'll take that back, pam. You know, I mean, technically, I'll give blame to both parents so I'll take that back.
Speaker 1:Pam and Tom, thank you so much. Both of you are just gems, yeah, works of art, but yeah, any last words that you could think of for anyone listening that could help inspire, transpire some healing, move the dial.
Speaker 2:Well, be gentle with yourself, Valid, validate yourself. Don't let others invalidate. What you're going through and what you're working through because essentially that is what you're trying to overcome is like you were told for many years that you were dramatic or that your childhood was fine. So in trying to work through it, you're going to have to constantly remind yourself that what you got through is what you went through and no one can tell you otherwise. Um, give yourself grace and try to have some empathy or understanding of what other people around you may have done.
Speaker 2:I don't think everybody. Now there are bad people in the world, but like not everybody necessarily has malicious intent. I think it's always good to remember, like I told you with my mom, like I know, that she herself just did not have the strength to necessarily overcome what it was. So I think it's important to remember how you were raised and how those that raised you were also raised and, at the end of the day, do what's best for yourself and then you can't go wrong. You know it's not going to feel comfortable all the time, but that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong because of that yeah, nope, I look 10 out of 10.
Speaker 1:We are both going through our our own journey. We are always gonna. I feel like we'll probably be able to be through it by the time we're 40. That's my goal, you know. I hope there's a hope for it. I'm like I'm doing pretty damn good at 33, considering I'm seven years deep on trying to do this and it's really only the last. Like three years I've put full force effort.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my therapist was like you've been here for 46 sessions. I'm like who's counting? Why are you counting? What are you are? Is there like a hard stop, like judging me? She's like I'm just I wanted to gauge where you're at. I'm like, okay, you could have led with that. Led with that, okay, thank you. I thought you were about to be like and abandoned, brought up some things.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much thanks for sending that childhood trauma again. Appreciate you therapy.
Speaker 2:I feel like so many people I hear so many people all the time are like I gave it a shot. No one, not everybody likes to divulge all of their shit in one go. No one.
Speaker 1:I, I have tried so many therapists and I've tried like dozens at this point and I have no shame in the shit that I've been through, but having to go through school with psychology I'm I'm like the worst patient ever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's because. I can tell you right now I'm not fully open. Whatever, I'm open in that I will talk about things. Oh, I am, that's, that's what I'll do. I'll talk about things. And the minute she's like well, let's sit with that, I'm like okay, next topic that I'm still not good at that.
Speaker 1:I will. I will lay out every single. I won't spare a detail. I've I've become very comfortable with what has happened to me, that I will talk about it oversharing is also childhood trauma.
Speaker 2:Thanks, I'm sorry, I'm listen.
Speaker 1:I don't have to call me out on my own podcast, okay.
Speaker 2:Oversharing is is a form of uh.
Speaker 1:I used to not talk about it at all Cause I used to be ashamed and yeah, so I'll take over sharing. Yeah, I'm a 180.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I think we overshare, and I do this too, so it's not just calling yourself out Cause I know, at least for myself, I will overshare sometimes because I'm looking for validation, whether it be for myself or an external person. I feel like if I talk about it more, I will like reiterate that what I went through was not okay.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for my therapy session today.
Speaker 2:I do the same. I do it so I know, speaking from personal experience, I feel the more I talk about it, I can convince myself like, yes, katie, that was traumatic, don't worry Like I'll I get. Talk about it. I can convince myself like, yes, katie, that was traumatic, don't worry, like I'll I get bad, to where I'm even like did I actually have cancer? Because I feel like that.
Speaker 2:A lot of people treat me like that wasn't even a valid thing I went through and so I will find myself being like, but was it really cancer? I don't know. I have it on paper but I don't know, so I will find oversharing. I think it's just our form of like trying to convince ourselves that what we went through is what we went through, Thank you. So I'm not necessarily saying it's bad, one day you will not necessarily do it as much, not saying you do it a lot, and I'm not saying I do. I do think it's healthy to talk about the shit. But you know, I think learning who you overshare to, like the initial conversation of, like nail salons, I think a lot of time. If you're an oversharer, what you learn to do is not giving every piece of yourself to every person on the street because you know you don't. You have to trust people. Learn. Learn to trust. Some people use it as a weapon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're not going to talk about my nail salons. We're not going to bring that on, cause that was if you are a nail tech, do not use your client as a therapeutic punching bag is all I will say. I do have it happen to everyone that comes near me. Everyone feels the need to tell me their entire life story. I am listening, I will just listen and not give any feedback, but if you're my nail tech, please don't talk to me. Sometimes I don't want to hear your knowledge.
Speaker 2:What mood are you in, and that is a big piece of advice I will tell you. I'll take that too. I don't know if you find this with Joe. I feel like there's a lot of men. Zach and I have talked about this a lot. If you're trying to discuss something of your childhood or something you need validation on, or just want to vent about, if you don't want that person's opinion, state that from the beginning, just like yes.
Speaker 1:I just like I need you to listen to this.
Speaker 2:I don't want you to save me. I don't need you to intervene, I just need you to let me vent because, zach, I found a lot of times I've been he's like, I'm so sorry, like, and then he immediately wants to fix it.
Speaker 1:I go into fix it mode.
Speaker 2:I'm very guilty of it. So I'm like I think as society, we need to be better at understanding what's. What do you want out of this conversation? What does this conversation serves? And yeah, I know that that was probably random as shit. I sorry it happens.
Speaker 1:I told you it just comes, comes okay, we are, we are okay, so it's okay.
Speaker 2:Learning how to communicate is very important. It is a staple in a lot of communication. Yeah, yeah, it's another podcast thing. There you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, we could go on all day, but to wrap things up, I one want to thank you for your time, as always, because you are one of my favorites.
Speaker 2:If you listen back to this and I make no sense, it is okay. This does not show up on your podcast, though.
Speaker 1:Oh no, it's going on.
Speaker 1:I have zero fucks given, okay, because somebody listened to this and was like, oh, maybe I should look into attachment theory or maybe I should not put things into Pandora's box.
Speaker 1:So I just want to thank you for coming on and, guys, that is a wrap on another powerful episode I will deem this one powerful of wellness unplugged, because I, just like I said, I want to thank Katie for joining me, sharing your journey, and you know, the vulnerability and authenticity are always inspiring and I do truly appreciate it. And for those of you tuning in, I hope this conversation has allowed you to feel seen, feel heard and a little bit less alone on your journey. Right, because, remember, we're all works in progress and we are doing the best that we can and we need to be gentle and if this has resonated with you and you need to feel you know, share with a friend who could use the same message, go ahead, leave a review, share the episode, and my DMs are always open. Other than that, guys, I'm grateful for spending the time with you today. Until next time, guys, have a great one Bye.