House of JerMar

The Bold Pivot: From Burnout to Breakthrough

• Jeanne Collins • Season 2 • Episode 61

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What happens when you abandon the corporate career you've spent decades building—with no backup plan? Leigh Burgess knows this territory intimately. After twenty years climbing the healthcare administration ladder at prestigious institutions like Duke and Dartmouth, she found herself sleeping just two hours a night, physically deteriorating, and completely disconnected from her authentic self.

In this raw and revealing conversation, Leigh shares the moment she realized the strategy that had always worked—taking on more responsibility—was now destroying her health and happiness. Her bold decision to quit without a plan led to co-founding a company with her daughter and creating the BOLD framework (Believe, Own, Learn, Design) that now guides individuals and organizations through meaningful transformation.

Leigh offers powerful insights about identity beyond title, challenging the stories we tell ourselves, and redefining success on deeply personal terms. "Your values are really the things that are the filter for your actions and, ultimately, your beliefs," she explains, pinpointing how misalignment in these areas inevitably leads to burnout.

The discussion explores practical exercises for discovering your true "why," techniques for silencing imposter syndrome, and why fear should be viewed as a signal rather than a stop sign. Leigh's vulnerability about her own journey—including how her brother's death when she was six shaped her need to make everyone happy—creates profound connection points for anyone questioning their current path.

Whether you're contemplating a career pivot, recovering from burnout, or simply seeking greater alignment between your values and daily life, this episode delivers both inspiration and tactical frameworks for taking that first bold step. As Leigh wisely notes, "You don't have to have it all figured out—you just need to know the next ten steps."

Ready to discover how choosing yourself might be the boldest and most rewarding move you'll ever make? Listen now and begin reimagining what's possible in your own life.

Leigh's Book Recommendation: The Ambition Trap by Amina AlTai

Leigh's Book: Be Bold Today: Unleash Your Potential, Master Your Mindset, and Achieve Success

More about Leigh:

Leigh Burgess is a visionary leader, dynamic connector, and catalyst for change, dedicated to empowering others to step into their boldness. After over 20 years in the corporate world, she launched Bold Industries Group, a platform that’s redefining what it means to live and lead with purpose. Through her Bold events, the Bold Leaders Collective community, The Bold Lounge Podcast and her impactful speaking and coaching, Leigh inspires changemakers to elevate, lead, and live their boldest and best life. 

https://leighburgess.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leighburgess23/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theleighaburgess
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@boldindustriesgroup
Leader-Decide-Matters-Deliver/dp/1394343477

House of JerMar: houseofjermar.com

Empowerment Fundamentals Course: https://members.houseofjermar.com/empowerment-course

Instagram: instagram.com/houseofjermar/
YouTube Channel: youtube.com/@Houseofjermar
Read Jeanne's Book: Two Feet In: Lessons From an All-In Life
WELCOME TO OUR HOUSE!

Speaker 1:

Your values are really the things that are the filter for your actions and, ultimately, your beliefs. So my values were, you know, very, very misaligned and that is why I became burnt out and I didn't know that when I was going through it. I think everyone around me probably knew it was burnt out, but I didn't. I was just working really hard and put my head down doing my job and couldn't figure out why. I couldn't figure it out. I think that was the most, you know, frustrating thing for me is like I had figured it out before and everything I'd done before fixed it, which was take on more responsibility, do more work, but it wasn't fixing it. And you know, obviously you get to a point where you just that's not the answer and it wasn't the answer before. But I think my values were family relationships, time off, like being, you know, being able to understand and be creative, like, because if you don't have any space for yourself, it's hard to think.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the House of Germar podcast, where wellness starts within. The House of Germar is a lifestyle brand, empowering women to live all in through interior design and personal wellness. We are a destination for women ready to reimagine what is possible in their homes and lives and then create it. We are honored to have you join us on our mission to empower 1 million women to live all in. I am your host, jean Collins, and I invite you to become inspired by this week's guest. I am your host, jean Collins, and I invite you to become inspired by this week's guest. Welcome to the House of Germar podcast, where wellness starts within. I'm your host, jean Collins, and today we are talking about being bold. I am so honored to have Leigh Burgess as our guest today.

Speaker 2:

She wrote a book. I loved it everybody. For those of you that can see here, it is Be Bold Today. Her journey is really fascinating. Her story is interesting, her book amazing. We're going to talk about it.

Speaker 2:

She's another one coming out and she just has a really interesting approach to how you can manifest and create your own life and design your own life, and she uses the word design as the D in bold and those of you who follow me know I'm a designer at heart. So, leigh, welcome to the show. Thank you very much for having me. It's great to meet you, thank you. So we are recording this on a Tuesday and I will say my landscapers have just arrived, everyone, so my dogs, I guarantee, are going to bark. So just bear with us. This is real life. So just bear with us. This is real life. So, leigh, talk to us about just at a high level, your journey in life, because I am sure you didn't start out saying I want to run this business that you have. You also have your daughter who works for you, your books, your coaching, everything that you're doing. So how did you get to where you are, to have the business that you have now?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so obviously the journey is a bit long, but I'll try to do my best here, just to give you a brief version, an overview.

Speaker 1:

So a lot of my career I was in the corporate setting. So, from a career perspective of the journey, you know, went to college, went to school, all that jazz and ended up in, you know, the place that I wanted to be, which was in corporate healthcare. So a lot of my time I was in large academic institutions and an operations role which I just, you know, really enjoy being in ops and got to a point in 2020 where I was burnt out, ran pretty hard at you know, incredible institutions, but just got to a point where I just kept taking on more responsibility to fix problems. And it just got to a point where I just kept taking on more responsibility to fix problems and it just got to a point where I just wore myself out in addition to kind of just an unhealthy place, and I ended up quitting my job without having a plan, which is not recommended nor what I normally would do on any level.

Speaker 2:

I love that. I love that, though.

Speaker 1:

That is bold, you go it was bold, but I think I had to choose myself. Really, my health was really, on every level, had deteriorated and you know, I gained weight, I wasn't moving, I was reactive. It was the middle of the beginning of the pandemic, whatever the heck you call August of 2020. And I just made the decision with my family that you know, we needed to make a change and tried all the normal stuff trying to get a job but that's a difficult time to do it in general and really knew that we could figure it out. So I had to really think about how to do that, with a short runway, with a little bit of savings, a little bit of retirement, and my daughter and I co-founded the company.

Speaker 1:

So she's actually a co-founder of my company. She had just finished her post-grad program at MIT and she also was impacted by, you know, the world shutting down. So she's 25 years younger than me, so a great way to also have a different vantage point. So that's how we kicked it off and I really needed something to follow to know what to do next, and I couldn't find anything. And that's how we kicked it off and I really needed something to follow to know what to do next, and I couldn't find anything and that's actually how the bold framework was created was just for me to figure out my what's next.

Speaker 2:

I love that and your daughter brings the younger generation. No offense to us, but you know she really does, which is amazing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely a different point of view, a way to look at things, certainly, and also just an incredible person to have, you know, insight into what we're doing, as well as you know, to give me feedback, because a lot of the times I think I have to do more to accomplish what we want to do, and at times she's very, you know, very straightforward and you know to the point and letting me know like no, that's the opposite of what we need to do. It's not always more.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I love that, I love that. So, when you started, was it you wanted to do coaching? You wanted a course, like, or you wanted a book, like where were you in terms of, oh, this is and where I'm getting at, this is like, this is my new identity. Like, where were you going with it? Because, as working moms and just as women in general, we tend to define part of our identity by our corporate job and our corporate career and what we do. And so when you make that big transition, in that pivot, where were you seeing? You know your identity as it was going to go with this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was 48. So I honestly felt like I had lost who I was. I didn't really know. I knew I was a very hard worker, really good at my job. I think there's a myth that when you're in burnout you're not good at your job, and that's not it. You may not be doing it like at the 100 percent level, but you're still doing a really good job, but you're just extremely unhealthy. I think one of the things that I wanted to do was actually be able to introduce myself without actually stating who I worked for and what my title was.

Speaker 2:

That's actually something I do. I love that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So like, please introduce yourself, but don't tell me where you work or tell me your title. I love that and this is like everyone kind of pauses. So I think I had done that. I didn't think that I really felt like my identity was part of that, but it truly was. I mean, it was a wonderful you know, there were wonderful places where I worked at Duke and at Dartmouth and very proud of those moments. But I wanted to actually figure out who I was and what my identity was.

Speaker 1:

For a little bit I didn't even think I'd be going back into healthcare because I was so burnt out and 20 plus years and just kind of, you know, just really worn out. I really want to explore. So we had kind of an idea of just like, don't limit yourself, let's just see what the possibilities are. We know that we have a little bit of a runway and let's just get healthy number one. And so I did take some time off, believe it or not, even though that's a very stressful time. You're like I got to get a job and I got to be able to do all this. I need a paycheck, yeah, but you can't do that if you're a nub. And so I really, for the first time, took a vacation without a phone. I took time off, I took time to be outside as silly as that sounds, but when you work in corporate you're not outside very often, just walking to and from the car and so I really did take time to do that.

Speaker 1:

And then I explored kind of what would be possible. One of them was events and interior design. Really I love both of those. One of them was around barbecue sauces and music. We love to grill out and I'm a big music fan, so we were going to name sauces and rubs and seasoning after songs.

Speaker 1:

And then there was consulting, which is where I ended up actually starting. So I ended up starting in consulting and creating a model for that. Actually, the D90D is designed in 90-90 days, because that was one of the things that I really felt was a challenge in organizations was just, we were doing a lot to get better but it was taking too long. So I wanted to work very pointedly and I think I wanted the organizations to radically prioritize what they wanted so that we could get stuff done in 90 days for strategic sprints. So I ended up starting off in consulting, never thought about being a coach, never wanted to have a podcast, never thought about having retreats, a membership or every now and then thought about books, but I didn't really know if I really felt that was the time to be doing that type of thing. So I think I was still figuring it out initially and I was looking for what I wanted to do and who I was at 48.

Speaker 2:

Ooh, which I love that I've had. I'm listening to you talk and you and I have such similar paths. I did mine. I did mine at 50. Okay.

Speaker 1:

So I just did mine two years.

Speaker 2:

I just did mine two years after you and I did it like eight months before you because I did it starting in January of 2020. And that whole, who am I?

Speaker 2:

And just being so burned out. And I want to just say one thing that you said that I love so much which phase of of questioning whether I really was good at that job, especially because I got fired. I didn't quit, I got fired and so, but I was just like you're talking, I'm like that was me. I was so burned out, I had no idea who I was. I just couldn't get excited about going back. It was killing every part of my life and I didn't realize it until I was forced to step away and then trying to figure out who I am and where do I want to go, and in my journey, just like yours, similar if I look back at the last five years, I would have never imagined five years ago I would be where I am today. Right, and same is probably true for you.

Speaker 2:

And what I find is interesting about that is, you know, coming from a corporate background, we sit down in corporate America and you're like, ok, what's the one year plan? What's the three year plan? What's the five year plan? You plan it all out, but then, once you start to get into a different flow and become open to the possibilities that the universe will bring to you, it's hard to come up with a five year plan Like do you think now, five years ahead, are you much more narrow?

Speaker 1:

I think if I have anything that's a five year, it's a general. I want to buy, meaning that you know I want to get to this place. I want to see this excel. I want to see this end and this begin within five years. Like you know, my five-year plan I'd love to have 20 acres. I'd love to be on a farm and be rescuing animals in some safer form.

Speaker 1:

You are like my soul sister, yes, so like that's like five years, I think, for me. I think you know one, you know milestone coming up is the end of the year. What do I want to do by the end of this year? And that's really close and, believe it or not, it's you know, five to six months away. And then you know for me, a year from now, like I think that's reasonable. But getting anything like farther out from that that is totally planned out to the T is challenging. But I think there are certain things within businesses that you have to do, but it is generally not like that five to 10 year plan is how we operate our lives anymore.

Speaker 1:

At least I don't think I can.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

I'm with you.

Speaker 2:

I'm with you, all right. So before we get into your book, I do have a question. You created this process, this method, this bold framework let's call it Right and you talked about how you started your consulting business and came up with a framework for businesses. How did you deal with the imposter syndrome that I am sure happened of why is anyone going to listen to what I have to say? And maybe you didn't have it, but I feel like all of us, as entrepreneurs, have had that, and I asked the question because I think a lot of people who are considering becoming entrepreneurs struggle with how do they move forward in that process.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I had never been introduced to even being an entrepreneur. It wasn't how I was raised. My parents were entrepreneurs. I didn't know any entrepreneurs, so doing it to me felt, you know, like 5x scary, because I really didn't even have anyone to ask and I think one of the biggest things I had to do was really be fueled by self-belief, which is why the B of bold is believe, and I had to believe I could do it. Everyone around me believed I could do it.

Speaker 1:

But it was interesting that I had never felt imposter syndrome until I was an entrepreneur. I honestly never had it in the corporate world. I was always like, very to the point outspoken, I was hired for getting things done. I mean, it was just, you know, I felt very much in my place there, but I felt as an entrepreneur, like I didn't know what I was doing and it was a very weird thing to be an expert or, you know, a C-suite executive. To now I'm running my own company but I don't feel like I know what I'm doing. So I think how I dealt with it was really just believing and understanding.

Speaker 1:

If I had some type of moment where I wasn't believing in myself, what was coming up Like if you know, I think for me there was a sense that I had to do it all, that I had to figure everything out, and that isn't the truth. You know, like in the sense of sure you need to know generally what you're doing and what you're about, but I wasn't like I quit and then what do I do? I'm sitting at my desk. I mean, when I gave my notice, I incorporated, so I started the paperwork with the state and that, to me, started to open up like I honestly feel like parts of my brain that had been shut down, the creative side, the thing that think about possibilities.

Speaker 1:

You know, I mentioned the four different businesses, but as silly as those may sound to someone else, those are things that I find joy in and I really the main thing I wanted to do was find my happy place again. You know inside me not going somewhere because I would be the beach, but I mean you know inside me where I want me to be, like, you know, a happy place, and so I was really looking for that. So I think for me, how I dealt with it was really to really do the work when it comes to belief and really ownership, which is the second letter, and for me I was owning way too much stuff that wasn't mine to own in the first place, and so that's where. That's where it all started, I think belief and ownership.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh well, good, I always feel like, at least for myself. It was like, even though it was totally scary and, just like you, I had no idea how to be an entrepreneur, no clue, and there was so much I didn't know. I always used to go back to like, tapping inward and being like okay, but you had all this success in corporate America and you could do that. You did that, you created that, you manifested that, you worked hard and you created it. So if I work hard now and I really believe that I have the capacity to create something great, even if I can't even define it or don't know how to do my books or all the other things, it can happen.

Speaker 2:

I can figure it out. I can figure it out. I'm smart, I can figure it out. And one of the other things that I learned was I learned how to ask for help, much more so than I think I would have had I been younger. And I always try to say to people as a lesson, like learn from us at this age, asking for help is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of intelligence, by being willing to ask for help with what you don't know how to do.

Speaker 1:

Right. Yeah, I agree with that. I think I'm getting better at that. But I also still get ticked off, I think, when I do finally get like the gumption up to ask for help and then someone's like nope, and so it happens, but it doesn't happen all the time. I think it's like one in 20 times, right, most of the time when you ask, someone will guide, provide or help you kind of figure it out. I think there's also the side of being an entrepreneur that, honestly, I'll just say for me, like I enjoy not knowing something and going and trying to figure it. I don't know about you, but like I don't want someone just to hand me the answers, like I want to be like okay, let me figure this out. So it's my path or the way that I would do it. And that's one of the greatest things I think you know I know every day who's in charge. It's me, right?

Speaker 1:

So I think, yeah, and I'm not using my energy to align with. You know the normal stuff that happens in any bureaucracy, the politics, the. You know somewhat. You know the relational things that can be all for stressing, or you know, just take energy within any type of organization, which is just normal, but you're using your energy for other things, and part of my energy was figuring it out For sure, which I love and you control your energy, and that's so important.

Speaker 2:

And you control the energy of the people that are around you and you can choose who comes into your universe as an entrepreneur and does their energy lift you up and do they inspire you and challenge you. And I loved how you talk about continual learning, which is the L right, so you talk about learning. So, before we give away the whole book in pieces that people don't understand, it's hard for me not to talk about it.

Speaker 2:

No, but I, and I was reading, I was like oh, my goodness, I do all these things, I love this. So let's talk about your book. So let's talk about BOLD. So, if you could, let's go backwards. Let's just explain what is bold, what does that mean, what are the acronyms, and then we'll start there. Sure.

Speaker 1:

So a way I've learned my entire life, really probably from middle school on, was to make everything an acronym. So I remember it, you know, if I'm studying for a test or or whatever. It seemed to have worked. So I did the same thing with this, and the reason that I chose the word bold was that I felt like I had made a pretty bold move, right? I think before then, the only time you ever would hear me say the word bold was with my team. I would say we're gonna take a big swing of bold here, we're going to do it anyway, but we're gonna learn regardless, right? We're not sure it's not guaranteed.

Speaker 1:

So for me, bold stands for believe, own, learn Design, and it really is a framework that you go through, you know, from beginning to end, at least initially, and then you may go back and revisit certain pieces or parts of it really throughout your entire life, because it isn't like you do it once check and then I move on. So your beliefs really do guide your actions, whether you know it or not. It's the foundation of everything, and really digging into that and believing in yourself really is what the B and the B section of the framework are all about, and understanding your beliefs. You know how do you talk to yourself, how do you set yourself up for success. Are some of those things like we were just talking about, imposter syndrome? Like I have an activity in the book where you just kind of write down, you know your thoughts or things that you're saying about yourself, and then it's like, is that really true? Like you were saying, it's like no, that's not so, like, let's, let's write that in our mind.

Speaker 1:

The ownership piece is really about owning what you should own and letting go of what you should not, which sounds a whole lot easier than it really is in real life. But you've really got to do the work here. And for me, I realized that I was never owning anything positive. I was always owning what was wrong, what was broken, what needed fixed, which is cool because I love to fix things. But it isn't cool when you don't ever celebrate, get happy about, take a moment and really realize all the things you've accomplished. I just really skipped over that continually and it was like, yeah, we did it. Okay, what do we need to do next?

Speaker 2:

Moving on.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think that's also how I ran my career was like what's next? What's the peak, let me get there. And I would get to it and I'd be like, wow, that one's taller over there, I'm going to go over there, right, okay, go over there, yeah.

Speaker 1:

You don't take a moment to pause and reflect on all that you've accomplished and the positives. Yeah, so that really digs into owning what you should and I think the other thing that comes along with this have you been ascribed, meaning you're to think a certain way, you're to be at a certain point? You know a certain type of expectation by just how you were raised, or maybe by your culture, or maybe by your parents, like you know my parents great parents but I was good to go to school, get a degree, get into corporate. Keep my head down. Don't make a lot of fuss, lee, which was, you know usually what my dad would tell me every Sunday dinner keep your head down. And that's just not me, but he knows me.

Speaker 2:

I've known you for all of 25 minutes. And I would say that does not sound like you at all.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, and then retire and then live your life. And I was like, well, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, right, you know we're supposed to be living while we're doing it, so you may have things that also. You know maybe someone's fearful of something, or maybe that they would never do it, so they've told you never to do it. So these are things that really have been ascribed, meaning you didn't subscribe to those types of beliefs they've been given to you, and I had to work through those too, about just even being an entrepreneur, not being in corporate.

Speaker 1:

I think the other thing that's just important to realize is not everyone's going to understand what you're doing, and that may hurt a little you know, when it comes to your friends or your colleagues or people you thought you had something in common with, and you're like whoa, like we only had whatever. Like maybe the strife or maybe the we didn't you know get along with a certain person, or we worked on a project, like that's the only thing we had in common. Because once you leave that place, which was a big piece of your identity and someone doesn't know you anymore, then that means they really didn't know you Right was a big piece of your identity and someone doesn't know you anymore, then that means they really didn't know you right. So that's a big piece of the ownership too, I think, in there. And then the learning is really about applying that growth mindset on a continual basis of you know the PDSA cycle on loop, like what are we doing? Why are we doing it? Let's figure it out, let's get some data, let's keep going.

Speaker 1:

Because, you know, I think my definition of being bold is really feeling the fear and doing it anyway, and I think that's just really important for people to understand. Fear is not a stop sign, it's a signal, something's very important, and I think that's one thing that I continued to learn through the process and every day, honestly, as an entrepreneur. And D is designed, and that really came from. You know me wanting to design my life, design my blueprint of what's my next step and my path, and realizing that I didn't have to have 500 steps figured out. I just needed the next 10, you know, and that's where we get into these, like if I don't have it all figured out by you know, equals I'm a failure or equals I don't know what I'm doing. And I think designing your life really is sometimes step by step.

Speaker 2:

Couldn't agree more, which is so important. And you talk in your book about beliefs versus values, which I thought was really fascinating, and you have exercises in your book as well.

Speaker 1:

Can you?

Speaker 2:

talk to us a little bit about the difference between a belief and a value.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so belief is really? You know, obviously, what you think and how you approach a particular, whether it's a subject or even how you think about yourself. Like I am strong, I am smart, I am intelligent, I can figure it out. You know those are things that are your beliefs, or I believe people should be honest, right? I believe that you know I should walk around the block today and be healthy. You know those are the types of things.

Speaker 1:

When it comes to your beliefs, your values are really the things that are the filter for your actions and, ultimately, your beliefs. So my values were, you know, very, very misaligned and that is why I became burnt out and I didn't know that when I was going through it. I think everyone around me probably knew I was burnt out, but I didn't. I was just working really hard and put my head down doing my job and couldn't figure out why I couldn't figure it out. I think that was the most, you know, frustrating thing for me is like I had figured it out before and everything I'd done before fixed it, which was take on more responsibility, do more work, but it wasn't fixing it.

Speaker 1:

And you know obviously you get to a point where you just that's not the answer and it wasn't the answer before, but I think my values were family relationships, time off, like being, you know, being able to understand and be creative.

Speaker 1:

Like, because if you don't have any space for yourself, it's hard to think, believe it or not. That sounds really silly, but I think in the sense of like being creative and being strategic, like strategy was, like, you know, on a Saturday night or Sunday morning, you know, instead of actually really being able to think through like what do I want to be doing, where am I and how am I going to like live my life and do the things that I want to do the way that I want to do them. And there was just really no time to think about that when I was in corporate because it was just go, go, go, go go. And on certain times, yeah, the adrenaline kicks in and that feels really good. But I think ultimately, being misaligned with your values and having beliefs that aren't supporting what you want to do, ultimately can just put you in a place where you need a reset or you need to rethink, kind of what you're doing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, which I love, and so you talked about something which will transition to something else that I really loved in your book. So, first of all, for anyone who hasn't bought a book, you have to actually buy the book because there are all these exercises in there. So it is very tactical of things that you walk people through. You explain a lot, it's easy to read, you put the key things in bold. You know, for people with a little ADHD, it's like you actually make it pretty simple to follow and you have all all these key exercises and I felt like I grabbed a pen and I was like, oh, let me do this you write the book, you, you, you need it, right, like that's what they say.

Speaker 1:

And yeah, for me, like there's so many great books out there and some of them are really dense and I, in my the way that I think, the way that I approach things, like it's hard for me to sit and read a book like that, so I wanted it to have space to breathe, to be pretty. I really wanted it to be pretty, it's beautiful.

Speaker 2:

Oh my goodness folks, it is beautiful.

Speaker 1:

And you know my publisher did an incredible job with my requests and also kind of dealing with kind of what I, you know, expected for it. And it is a gorgeous book in the sense of you're able to go through it. And someone said I appreciate you saying that if you do like activities because they said it's like a workshop in every chapter is what they said.

Speaker 2:

It is, and it's very, very well thought out. So, before I move on, because I have so many questions, but one I want to talk about, because you did such a good job of explaining this and you just it piggybacks off what you just said about finding the time to really think. So you have an exercise in there about understanding your why. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because I had no clue what mine was at that point. So you can honestly kind of like tap into what was Lee going through. If you read these chapter by chapter and if you've been burnt out, I bet you're like, oh yeah, that's me too, or I felt that way, and you feel less alone. I think when you read the book too. If you've ever kind of been in those spaces and places but I had not really thought about what I could be or what I wanted to do for a really long time, I feel like I didn't know what my purpose was.

Speaker 1:

And people will say what's your purpose? You know that's a big, heavy question and it isn't one you usually just rail off unless you've kind of aligned and you're in a great place and there is a percent of the population that probably can answer that pretty quickly. But I didn't know who I was. So I really wanted to understand what is my why? Why am I doing this? Why do I like health care? Why do I like solving problems that scare other people? You know that was for me something I didn't mind, you know, running into the burning building, but I wanted to know that we were never going to have a fire again and I was going to make sure that that happened right.

Speaker 1:

So I think you know, from that perspective, your why is really your compass, and I needed to sit down and figure that out. So in the book you kind of go through the pieces and parts to what makes up your why and then understanding for yourself, you know, maybe your why when you were 30 isn't the same as 40, certainly is not the same as 50. And just taking some space to actually sit down and think about it, because ultimately, if you don't know that, you know, just going through the motions, you're ultimately not really fulfilling your purpose. And I just needed to check myself in the sense of that, because I wasn't really sure Was I supposed to be doing something different or was I supposed to use everything that I've done to this point to do something new or to go back? I really was like that person standing in front of, like you know, the fork in the road that had like 10 forks, yeah, and I just wasn't sure and no one could tell me the answer I had to figure it out for me Comes from within.

Speaker 2:

You have to find it within yourself 100%.

Speaker 1:

But we look for answers from other people sometimes, especially when we're like, wow, this is a, this is really important, I don't want to get it wrong, right, and I think that where we also, that's where we also go back to, I think, the belief in ourselves and how we should start there, like, if you don't think you can figure it out, why do you think that? You know, and you know you have a runway Well, I know I can do that it's short, but, you know, does it mean I can't achieve it? And I think, just really digging into, like, how are you talking to yourself? Because I know that I had to, you know, retrain myself, how I spoke to myself.

Speaker 2:

Yes, very much so. Well, and something that I loved about your why exercise is it? When I first read it I was like, oh, that makes sense. And then you have some examples. And then I really thought about it and I was like what's so interesting about that is when you think about children and we both have daughters.

Speaker 2:

And I was like when they're like two and a half everything is why, why, why. And you give an answer, and then they're like but why? And then you give another answer, but why? And so your exercise is actually so fascinating because it forced me to sit down and really think like deeper and deeper and deeper, and this is like why, Right?

Speaker 1:

And it's like OK, we really know that.

Speaker 2:

Right, like, really, like, really, why, why are you fearful? And so it was set. So thank you for that. It was a really great exercise and it also taps into curiosity. Right, be curious about these new things, and that's part of the learning and the continual learning that you talk about a lot Like be curious, be interested, you know, open yourself up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's another thing. I think. When we're younger we do that all the time. We ask why, and we're curious about just about everything. Yeah, and somewhere along the way it gets knocked out of us or dimmed or muted, you know, or maybe all three, and you're not supposed to ask why. You're just supposed to do what I said and you know, or how I told you to do it, just don't even ask. And then curiosity is like, you know, for your off time it's not like to be, you know, during workouts. You know, and I'm being like harsh and you know, a little bit like black or white. But what I mean by that is like we seem to do less and less of that as we get older and I seriously was craving that.

Speaker 1:

I was seriously craving creativity, curiosity, just doing the stuff people aren't expecting of you, coloring outside the lines, all of that. Whatever I wanted to do, I just wanted to figure that out. And if it meant those things, ok, because I hadn't done that in a very long time and it felt very foreign. I'll just say, to start off to, to just, you know, be able to sleep was something. As silly as that sounds, cause like towards the end I was sleeping like just two hours a night, oh which is terrible.

Speaker 2:

That doesn't work. No, it's terrible. It's terrible so like silly.

Speaker 1:

Things like that sound. You know, things that sound silly are really, really important. How you eat, how you move, how you think about yourself Like I had to get those in shape before I could even think about jumping back into work.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then you start to become someone different. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And you talked about that you start to like, grow and become someone different.

Speaker 2:

And then, all of a sudden at least and I'm sure this happened to you because you just mentioned it also you look around and you're like, hmm, the people that are around me, they're not understanding the different me, but yet you're starting to feel more grounded within your side yourself, because you're doing the work and, like your confidence starts to build, because you feel like, no, that feels good, like, this feels good, right. And other people are looking at you like, no, that feels good, like this, this feels good Right and other people are looking at you like no, because they're still running that rat race.

Speaker 2:

They're still doing it differently than you are.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, or they think, because you left, you don't know the same thing that you knew when you had a particular title or were employed by a certain place.

Speaker 1:

And at first, like I said, I think it was very hurtful because I was like I'm the same person. Just because I have my own thing going on doesn't mean I'm any less qualified. And I think that you know, like the prove yourself kind of stuff, I had to be very careful that I wasn't getting back into that because I think that was part of my. My understanding of myself was that I was really driven by I'm not enough. I got to do more. I got added in. I got to do more. I got to add it in. I got to do 190%, not 110. That's low, you know like, and it's mathematically impossible too for everyone out there.

Speaker 2:

It is.

Speaker 1:

But like I was driven by that and I didn't know that until probably, you know, two years into even being an entrepreneur. I mean I was beginning to figure it out because I was making space to figure it out, but because of that I think I had really driven myself to the place I was at and in burnout. And so why did I think I wasn't enough? Where did that come from? And you know, I believe in therapy, I believe in coaching, and you know, one of the things that is a predominant piece of that for me, that I figured out just last year, honestly, at 52, was that when my brother passed away, he was 11 and I was 6.

Speaker 1:

And it was an accident, unexpected. Both would be bad, but I mean, it was totally just out of left field and you're six years old, in first grade, and your brother dies and I saw how hurt my parents were and I saw how sad they were and I was like I'm never going to make them cry. I'm always going to be the person that makes them happy. And so I just mentally just went into that at six and I think I carried that thread my entire life into just about everything. No one's going to be unhappy. I'm going to try and keep everybody safe. I'm going to try and keep everybody safe. I'm going to try to keep the bad things from happening and you know that wears you out and it's impossible to do?

Speaker 2:

most likely, at least for me, it was yeah, and that's your story. That's the story that you're putting everything up to. That's the mirror, is that story you've been telling yourself ever since you were six and learning that that is the story and learning how to rewrite that story as well as part, as part of your journey. Yeah, so I have a question L learning. I am always so curious. What do people like yourself? How do you keep continually learning?

Speaker 1:

I enjoy really soaking stuff up, so I read a lot. So we were talking in the green room a little bit at the beginning about books and I was like, oh, how do I pick one? In that sense, but I read a lot. I try to be around people who will stretch me. So you know, you don't want to be in places. I don't want to be in the room where I'm the smartest person in the room. I want to be the person that probably knows the least at times. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2:

I love it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's scary. And I think in the sense of like oh, you know, someone's going to know I don't know everything. Well, that's the whole point, right? Yeah, you know. So I think that's one of the things I do.

Speaker 1:

No-transcript five people you spend the most time with, it's true, and so yeah, do your inventory about who am I spending time with and think about is that a good ratio of how I want to be and what I want to be?

Speaker 1:

And I think the other thing that I do is and this is, I think at times you've got to remind yourself, even as an entrepreneur is taking time off and taking space to think, and what I mean by that is not having a plan, not having an agenda, not having a to-do list, and on days I'm really really bad at that, even recently, like I, it was our anniversary, our 29th wedding anniversary, and I was like trying to plan out the entire day oh, we'll go to a cooking class and we'll go to a baseball game, and then we'll. You know, I just want to show you how much I love you and we'll do all these things and we'll learn to sail. And this was like one day. And then I'm exhausted, right, I was getting worn out just planning it and I was like he doesn't really need all that. He doesn't really want all that, he just wants to hang out.

Speaker 2:

He just wants to spend time with you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so what do we do? We went to dinner and we walked around. We walked 10 miles in one day, so like that's that's an example of something that's probably approachable for people, but like you don't have to have it all figured out, and I think that's the thing that's most important for me now is just having some space and understanding my vision for where I wanna be and how I wanna get there. If you don't have a vision meaning what are my goals, how am I setting myself up for success? And you may need to. You know tune that I try to do that quarterly. It's not something that you know.

Speaker 1:

Whatever my goal was in January, it may change by March or April. That doesn't mean I'm a bad person. It doesn't mean I'm a failure. It means I'm paying attention to, kind of you know, the market of my life in a way. If you think of the stock market, it changes daily and there's some things you're never going to do just because of the change, meaning, oh, it went up or down. Oh, I'm not going to sell today. Right, I'm going to stay steady. Your life is like that too. With your goals, oh, I'm not going to change my goal. But then there are times that you need to like maybe something you started isn't doing as well as you thought. You have all the data that says you should probably stop doing it. Well, you should probably stop doing it. Stop doing it then.

Speaker 2:

So those are the types of things Because I think.

Speaker 1:

sometimes we have a goal and we think, oh, if I change my goal or if I make it lower, that means I've failed. At least in my mind, I don't know if that ever plays.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I'm the same. Oh yeah, change the goal. It means I failed. You moved the pin, so therefore you failed. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So, like the scorecard for myself, I needed to really retune that or change it in a sense of it is okay to change it as long as it makes sense for what you want to accomplish.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and did you find? Because I did this just recently, just this year, I redefined success for myself. Oh, for sure, and I found, I, because, coming from corporate America, success was so bound by numbers and metrics and smart goals.

Speaker 2:

And, and so I learned just this year it took me just this year to be five years how to change how I view success and incorporate some of success around new people that I meet, new things that I learn and sort of developing benchmarks for myself that are more than just the metrics of running a successful business as an entrepreneur. Did you do something similar, Because I found it was like an aha moment and I was like why did it take me so long to figure that out?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, 100%. I think we're trained that way, right, you know, even from grad school, like I've talked about. When you're in healthcare administration, which is like you get your MBA in healthcare, you even dress up in a suit for school, and I didn't even know that that's crazy. I, you know, I turned up the first day in a hoodie and jeans, and I may even had a rip in my jeans, I don't know, and everyone was in a two piece suit and we didn't have a lot of money. I was a young mom, I was in, you know, grad school and I was like how am I going to buy a suit? Like I don't, they're expensive. And so it was just kind of like it's ingrained in you, like how you're going to operate and what you're going to do, and I kind of get it.

Speaker 1:

But I do feel like you get into a place or space in any organization that you work and you start to assimilate, right, you start to fit in which, you know you don't always want to stand out, I guess, but you want to be you.

Speaker 1:

So, whatever that is, that's what you should be. But there is some sense of assimilation that has to happen within organizations and sometimes we assimilate too far back and we lose who we are right, and sometimes we assimilate too far back and we lose who we are Right. And I think success to me was always my title and was what I got paid, and for me that meant I could take care of my family ultimately, and that's what it was all about. And it's not what it's all about, you know like. To me, success now is like did I get outside? Am I walking? Am I, you know, playing with the dogs? Am I, you know, having conversations with my family? Because those were things that I couldn't do before, I wasn't doing like I should Believe it or not, those are success metrics for me now, totally.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it's a whole different definition. In maybe two or three years I'll redefine it. I bet I will, you know, because I think it should change. It isn't just one definition, it's not one dimension, because you're not one dimension.

Speaker 2:

Right, no, it shifts as you grow. Yeah, so you are an author and you have a second book coming out. Can we talk about your second book for a little bit Just? To give a plug to that. What's your second book about?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So, believe it or not, second book in two years. Two years, two books it's coming out on the same day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I've been in book. I think that's a little crazy too, so I don't recommend that. But I'm like, hey, why not? Yes, you know, because it was just an opportunity that came to me from Wiley and had the opportunity to take the bold framework really to the next level for organizations and leaders and, since I had been doing the consulting, really being able to talk about my model.

Speaker 1:

But why I wanted to write this particular book was because I couldn't understand, from a perspective of what keeps people from taking that bold move, that first step, which is the hardest step for people, what keeps them from that space? And a lot of the times it's fear. So I wanted to understand the neuroscience around making bold decisions. So it's really about your decision-making process and then really understanding and counting the things that measure boldness. These are new metrics for your dashboard versus, kind of some of the ones we always see.

Speaker 1:

But you know how many risks has your team taken? You know how many times have you, you know, had to you know, retool or reset or do something new within your you know your team or within your organization because of a change? And I think you know those are just two like little examples of things that we can measure. So the new book and I think you know those are just two like little examples of things that we can measure. So the new book really is around, you know, taking the model, the bold framework. And then really, how do you use that? You know in organizations Like what are the beliefs of our organization? What is my team owning that they shouldn't? You know who's not owning what they should, those types of things, how are we applying? What we learned Because I also find, at least in healthcare, and I bet this happens in other organizations is that our dysfunction is cyclical, meaning that we fix a problem a hundred times the same way you know that learning, they're missing the L of the learning Right.

Speaker 1:

And there was, like you know, a leadership change or or change in the budget or maybe a new regulation, and then we we seem to kind of, you know, do the, you know run around the fire drill and I really can't stand that. And you know, for me it was just trying to understand how do we not do that? How do we really, you know, maintain and understand what we're learning and not solve the same problem a hundred times? Maintain and understand what we're learning and not solve the same problem a hundred times? So that was a big part of it too, but it's really, for me, the evolution of the framework and seeing it pulled into this was very exciting. Writing for two years and I'm working on my dissertation another level for me.

Speaker 2:

And so I'm excited to have the book come out.

Speaker 1:

We're kind of in those final phases and excited it's out there for pre-order now if you'd want to get it. The Bold Leader.

Speaker 2:

The Bold Leader. We're going to link it in all the show notes. I love it, all right. So I have two more questions for you, with three actually, since we're on a podcast, I want you to talk about your podcast, because you also have a podcast and it's a great way for other people to tap in and listen to something else. So what made you start a podcast and tell everybody what your podcast is about?

Speaker 1:

The podcast again like wasn't something I thought I would ever be doing, had no idea how to do it or even you know where to begin. So we just celebrated our third year Congratulations, super excited about that, and a lot of the technical pieces again. My daughter she learned she's an incredible learner and she has a team as well. The podcast really came about when I was coaching started to coach people because organizations, as I was doing the consulting, asked me to coach the leaders on the plan that we had and coach really around some of the factors of being bold, because I think there's some myths around. You know, being bold, that people don't realize that you will have self-doubt. You know you won't always feel confident, those type of things.

Speaker 1:

You're still human folks, you're still a human being, not just being like a dive-in risk taker yeah just because you're bold, right, and so I think you know that was just really important.

Speaker 1:

But they were being bold and they didn't even know it, and I think that's that's really true, because I never went into a room like, oh I'm, I'm bold, I'm a this, I'm a that. No, I was doing things that help people be bold or understand failure or change or those types of things. So the podcast really is kind of runs the continuum of quiet moments of bold up to the bigger, larger moments of bold. It could be an athlete, it could be an author, it could be every day you and me be an author. It could be everyday, you and me.

Speaker 1:

And you know they're doing things that I never could think I could. You know whether it's, you know, surviving cancer or creating something for you know, my child who passed away, so that you know that never happens again. I mean, these are the types of things that you know. Oh, I'm not bold, I'm like, okay, you know, let's talk about that. So I think the bold lounge really was something that was born out really just wanting to amplify other people's bold moves that help people see themselves in others, meaning it's okay to not know or it's okay to figure it out or look what she did. You know she made it through and I'm not by myself and I have someone to look toward that you know really has done the things that I've done. So it's really meant to just hopefully inspire and help people see that being bold comes in all shapes and sizes?

Speaker 2:

Yes, and you have lots of quotes in your book from people who've been on your podcast. And they are so inspiring, oh incredible, just so inspiring and just some incredible words of wisdom, and an amazing quantity of words of wisdom as well, from your guests. So I encourage everybody go check out the podcast. We'll link it in the show notes also. Well, thank you. So you do a lot of things and I just personally am curious. You do so many things right Coaching, consulting, podcasts. You write all these things. Do you have a favorite?

Speaker 1:

I think I really enjoy the podcast. I always say this to the team I have the easy part you don't see me editing or doing anything like that because I know I could not and it's just at a deeper level. I really, really enjoy that. The other thing that I enjoy probably and it's a newer thing that I do is, you know, just having quality time with groups of people. So the mastermind is something that I do now. It's six months long. I really feel like you have opportunity to get to know each other and those types of things, and I really enjoy writing Like I. I think I want to take a little break after this one, you know, just a little breather, but I, you know, I really, really enjoy that and you know, I think that leads to so many things like meeting new people and traveling and talking to people and speaking and to me that's what it's all about is like just making a positive difference in the world, and I think through those things I can do that really well.

Speaker 2:

Oh, you are so inspiring, I love it. All right. Last question, which I ask all my guests, okay, especially since you're an author right, we talked about this before a huge proponent of books, and I love to have people recommend a book or multiple books that they think has a book has really impacted them, either personally or professionally, that they would recommend that the listeners go and read, yeah, so what book or books would you like to recommend?

Speaker 2:

And obviously we will link all of yours in the show notes. But what would you like to recommend?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm a big author proponent as well, so I appreciate this question. So the one that I looked at in my pile that is across from my desk is the Ambition Trap by Amina Altai. So it really takes ambition and redefines healthy ambition versus unhealthy ambition and I think to me it was eye opening in the sense of kind of how I looked at that word, just like anyone could look at the word bold and it could get a bad rap. Ambition, I think, can get a bad rap too, but it was really how to understand ambition then also how to apply it to your life. So the Ambition Trap by Amina Altai would be the one I would pick.

Speaker 2:

I love it. You're the first guest in a while who recommended a book that I've never heard of.

Speaker 1:

Okay, good, it's newer, so that's.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's newer from May, so that's maybe I love that and ironically I was out to dinner the other night and had a whole debate with my girlfriend about the word ambitious, yeah, oh very cool, which is very ironic.

Speaker 1:

You should have her on your podcast.

Speaker 2:

She was putting it in a negative tone and I was like what do you mean?

Speaker 1:

No, and so we had this whole debate about the word ambitious.

Speaker 2:

So that's sort of the universe talking to me that I'm supposed to read that book.

Speaker 1:

So that's fine yeah.

Speaker 2:

All right, before we go, is there anything that I did not ask you, that you want to make sure you communicate to the audience?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think the main thing is just start. Whether you know when you think about being bold, if that feels like a very overwhelming, you know idea, just start. Whether it's you know buying the book or you know going through the pieces of you know how are you talking to yourself, just some of the initial things that we talked about, and just realizing. You don't have to have it all figured out, don't let that keep you from who you want to be or how you want to be. Just take the first step, and I think that's sometimes, you know, challenging for people even to understand what that is, and sometimes it's just even writing it down. And so start today. Write your goals down or write where you want to be by the end of the year, and then start taking the steps towards it.

Speaker 2:

I love it One step at a time. Oh, thank you so much, lee, for making the time. I really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure to meet you. Your energy, your story is so inspiring and I see so many similarities in my own life to you, and one of the gifts I think that we have of having a public platform is being able to inspire people with our stories so they don't feel so alone, and your book does a great job of doing that.

Speaker 2:

Getting the chance to talk to you has really helped me do that, so thank you so much for your time and we will stay connected. Yeah, thank you so much. You're welcome. Good luck with your book launch too. Yeah, thanks. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the House of Jermar podcast, where wellness starts within. We appreciate you being a part of our community and hope you felt inspired and motivated by our guest. If you enjoyed this episode, please write us a review and share it with friends. Building our reach on YouTube and Apple Podcasts will help us get closer to our mission to empower 1 million women to live all in. You can also follow us on Instagram at House of Jermar and sign up to be a part of our monthly inspiration newsletter through our website, houseofjermarcom. If you or someone you know would be a good guest on the show, please reach out to us at podcast at houseofgermarcom. This has been a House of Germar production with your host, jean Collins. Thank you for joining our house.