House of JerMar

The 9 Enneagram Types Explained: A Framework for Personal Growth

• Jeanne Collins • Season 2 • Episode 73

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This week we dig into the Enneagram with coach and podcaster Jennifer Stanley to trace behavior back to core motivation, revealing how nine types, three centers of intelligence, and one core need organize the choices we make—often without noticing. That clarity opens a door: once you see the engine driving your habits, you can steer toward a life that feels aligned rather than reactive.

Jennifer breaks down the differences between surface behavior and inner motive, showing how a room-reading Type Three and a power-protecting Type Eight can look similar from the outside but live from very different “whys.” We talk blind spots—like a Two’s pride in being needed or an Eight’s pull toward intensity—and how naming them turns autopilot into awareness. From there we get practical: why online tests can only narrow your type, how to spot your center of intelligence (head, heart, or gut), and simple questions that create space between urge and action.

Midlife takes center stage as Jennifer shares Intermission, her cohort that blends deeper Enneagram work, retreat, purpose statements, and private coaching to help women co-author Act Two. We honor Act One for what it taught, make peace with changing relationships, and set boundaries that let us care for aging parents without losing ourselves. Wellness stays grounded in real life—seasonal, personal, and type-aware—whether that means CrossFit, yoga, long walks, or protecting unstructured weekends. If you’re craving a clearer map, kinder relationships, and a next chapter that fits, this conversation offers both language and tools to start now.

Jennifer's Book Recommendation: “The Road Back to You" by Suzanne Stabile

More about Jennifer:

Jennifer Stanley is a life coach and Enneagram expert who helps people see the hidden patterns shaping their lives and relationships. Drawing on years of experience guiding teams and individuals, she brings fresh insights and practical tools that spark “aha” moments and lasting growth. 

Whether in private coaching, leading a workshop, cohort, or keynote, Jennifer weaves wisdom and story to inspire authentic leadership, connection, and change. As a former theater performer turned coach, she loves helping others step into their own second act with clarity and confidence.

Jennifer lives in Indiana with her husband and has two grown children. She enjoys skiing, travel, long dinner conversations with friends, community theatre, and volunteerism — always bringing creativity and connection into every part of her life.

www.livingwellbyjen.com

https://www.instagram.com/livingwellbyjen/

https://www.facebook.com/LivingWellByJen

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-stanley-68337613b/

https://www.youtube.com/@LivingWellbyJen

House of JerMar: houseofjermar.com

Empowerment Fundamentals Course: https://members.houseofjermar.com/empowerment-course

Instagram: instagram.com/houseofjermar/
YouTube Channel: youtube.com/@Houseofjermar
Read Jeanne's Book: Two Feet In: Lessons From an All-In Life
WELCOME TO OUR HOUSE!

SPEAKER_01:

What the Enneagram is, is I will say it is a framework for understanding human motivation and behavior. And it is also a wisdom for how to chart a path of personal growth. So, to break that down just a little bit, the Enneagram looks at the subconscious. It taps into the subconscious. And so it really is not just talking about the behavior of people. It's really getting underneath the behavior as to why we behave the way we do.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to the House of Germar podcast, where wellness starts within. The House of Germar is a lifestyle brand empowering women to live all in through interior design and personal wellness. We are a destination for women ready to reimagine what is possible in their homes and lives and then create it. We are honored to have you join us on our mission to empower one million women to live all in. I am your host, Gene Collins, and I invite you to become inspired by this week's guest. Hello, everybody, and welcome to the show. I am Gene Collins, and this week we are going to talk to a dear friend of mine, Jennifer Stanley, and I am so excited that she is taking the time to be on the show. We are in a life coaching program together, so that's how I know her. And she is the queen of Enneagram, of which I knew nothing about. I know just a smidge, so she's here to share it with you. And she also is a life coach, just like me. And one of the things that I think is so important that I want to share, which is one of the reasons why I want her on here, is that so many of us are life coaches, but we all have unique niches and we all have unique specialties. And so we can all actually really play really well in the same sandbox and support each other because we all kind of help different people at different times and our backgrounds impact who we are as life coaches. So I really want to share what she's working on because I think for some of the people that listen in, it is really impactful. Plus, Enneagram, so cool, guys. So, Jennifer, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I love your show. So it's an honor to be here. Oh, well, thank you. And I will note, I'm gonna put this in the show notes, but Jennifer also has her own podcast, everybody, Living Well with Jen. And I give her so much credit because she does that show all by herself and just talks. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's uh the podcast I run, speaking of the Enneagram, is just it's all about the Enneagram. And I try to do nine minute or less episodes. So to be fair, it they're very short episodes.

SPEAKER_02:

Still, it's still work, and you like do a lot of them. So it's still work, and we're gonna touch on that. All right, before we get started, can you give us a little bit of background about you, who you are, how you got to be a life coach, how you got into Enneagram, where you live, a little about who you are so that people can understand some context behind you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. So I come to you from Indiana, born and raised here. And I have an interesting history with the Enneagram because, you know, it just kind of showed up in the United States. It was developed in Europe. It showed up in the United States in the 70s. Okay. Well, my parents actually learned the Enneagram in 1989 and brought it home. And I'm like, you know, 15 years old at the time, and I think my parents know nothing cool, of course. But then they come home and they're like, we have learned about this really interesting framework for understanding humans, and it's called the Enneagram, and they like showed it to us, and I was so enthralled with it, even way back at 15 years old. And that was really before it was before it was cool, I guess. You know, before it was memes on Instagram and all the things. My parents happened to be studying with a spiritual formation group and somebody from California. Anyway, it's just so cool how it got to me at such a young age. Now, fast forward 30 years, when I was in my mid-40s, I really found myself in a season of just kind of feeling a little lost in my identity, in my purpose. You know, I had poured myself into a career, I had poured myself into being a mom. I had poured myself into some ministry work. And all of a sudden, as I have found happens with most women in midlife, there was kind of a moment where I was like, now who am I again? Like, what am I doing here? What is my what is my purpose in this world? And so I really had to take some time to reflect on all of that. And one of the first things that I did was go back to the Enneagram. You know, I had not been studying it in my, you know, 30s and 40s, but it was just kind of always floating around there, just kind of the knowledge I had. And it wasn't a very deep knowledge. It was very shallow knowledge at that time. But I thought, you know, I'm gonna go back to this tool that I know can be effective for helping me understand myself in a deeper way. And so that was actually the first part of my personal intermission and becoming, you know, really getting really intentional about what I wanted to create in the second part of my life. And so that's just a brief overview of like how I kind of reconnected with the Enneagram and why it has been just a really impactful tool in my life.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Okay, so for people who don't know, what is it? Because I will be honest, I had absolutely no idea I joined this coaching cohort with you and you started talking about it, and everybody knew what you were talking about, and I had absolutely no idea. And I was like, wow, I kind of feel like I'm sort of connected in the personal wellness and all the tests and all that. I kind of felt like I knew what I was talking about with most things. And this one I had absolutely no idea. So I'm gonna assume that a lot of the people listening have absolutely no idea what it is. So what is it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and that's totally fair because as I said, it really hasn't even been a framework that people have used for, you know, for very long in the United States in its current form. So, what the Enneagram is, is I will say it is a framework for understanding human motivation and behavior. And it is also a wisdom for how to chart a path of personal growth. So, to break that down just a little bit, the Enneagram looks at the subconscious, it taps into the subconscious. And so it really is not just talking about the behavior of people, it's really getting underneath the behavior as to why we behave the way we do. So I love tools and assessments and I love all the things. Like if it if it can give me more insight into my life, like I'm here for it. It's it's they're great tools. So many of them are actually more focused on the behavior of the person or okay, you're really motivated to be successful and I'm really motivated to be successful. But those motivations might be very, very different underneath the surface. The reason why we are driving to be a successful person could come from a multitude of different places. And so that's what I love about it. So I'll say, like, well, okay, who in the room is a people pleaser? And you know, almost everybody, the women will raise their hands. And I'll say, so does that mean we're all the same? We're all people pleasers. And it's like, no, like the reason why someone else is a people pleaser and this person is a people pleaser is because we're all motivated and trying to find something that is different. And so I love it so much because it goes to the subconscious. It's actually not a great idea to take an online test. I know a lot of people do. And maybe what the online testing can do is help you narrow your number down. There are nine numbers. The test can help you like narrow them down, but only you can know what your actual inner motivations are. And so that's where the coaching piece comes in really handy to have someone to kind of help you walk through how you truly identify your number. I can meet with somebody and I can get to know them, but I actually can't tell them their number because that's something that only they really have access to is that inner motivation.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. And you and I did meet. And at the end, you were like, okay, you're either this number or that number. And I can't remember, I'm either a three or an eight or a three or a five or a five or eight. It's one of those, one of those three numbers. And you're like, I don't know which one you are. So you need, you know, and you sent me all this research and stuff to read, which I'm a terrible student at the time. You sound out. I was so busy that I didn't read it, but I will, I will. Before this comes out, I will. And so it was interesting because you did say that same thing that it is up to me because they were similar and the descriptions of them were similar. And even some of the other numbers, I was like, oh yeah, I can I can see myself being like that. Yes. But then it was, and correct me if I'm wrong about this, it was really like, okay, but what is the strongest? Like, what feels the strongest in terms of innately why you are the way you are?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And I love thinking about the numbers as colors. And so I'm a very visual teacher and a very visual learner. And so when I think about the colors with the numbers as if they are colors, I think about the way that all the colors kind of blend together. And you could be looking at purple, but you know that purple has so many components of other colors in it. And this is the way the Enneagram works within us. Like we're gonna relate to lots of numbers because we actually have a touch of everything within us. The key is to go deeply into what is the motivation and is it coming, which center of intelligence is it coming from? So, you know, I don't know how deep you want to wanna go on this particular, you know, interview. If I don't want to bore anybody out of the room, but you know, the numbers come from the three areas of intelligence. So they come from the thinking center. So are you processing the world through thinking? Are you responding to the world with that thinking lens on as the strongest? They also come through the heart center. So are you heart centered taking in the world through emotional and relational connection and responding to the world in that way? There's numbers that come from that center, and then there's numbers that come from the gut center, which is instinct, which is doing, which is activation on every level. Like you don't need to think about it or feel about it. You just do it. You know, you just know it and do it. So, you know, we kind of start there and then we branch out into, okay, well, if you feel like you are primarily thinking your way through life, then, you know, let's look at these three numbers. And we can do it in a hundred ways. We can look at the human essential need that is within a number. And those would range from safety and security, affection and esteem, and power and control. So I say to people all the time, we all want all three things. Like we all want to be safe and secure, have power and control, have affection and esteem. It's not that we don't want all of them, it's just that there's one that is the engine of the bus. Like it is the one that is just it's it's the engine in the bus of life that's really driving. And so somebody's striving for success to go back to that example, could be coming from a place of this is what makes them feel powerful and in control. Another person's could be success is a result of wanting to feel really safe and secure. And then another person's motivation towards success could be this is how I feel worthy and esteemed. And so you cannot just look at, oh, every successful person out there is this, because what's driving it is that that childhood story, the way we want and need what we're out there looking for.

SPEAKER_02:

Which is so fascinating.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so the three and the eight, where do they fall? Where do the three and eight fall?

SPEAKER_01:

So the three is gonna fall in that emotional heart center. So the three is gonna be able to, they're gonna see relational connection first and foremost. They're gonna be able to read a room really well. And what happens with the three is as soon as they read the room, they can shape into what they need in that environment to be successful. What do I need to talk about? What do I need to make sure they know that I know about? What do I maybe I need to look a particular way? Maybe I need to. You can basically chameleon as a three to be what the situation requires. And that's how you end up feeling it's a relational and an emotional center. So it's basically kind of trying to prove that I'm worthy that that underlying drive. For the eight, it comes from a place of really wanting power and control. And the eight can walk into a room and they will say, when they walk into a room, they will say, okay, who's in control here? And they'll they'll figure it out, and then they'll decide whether or not that person is allowed to be in control of them. And they may be in the room and and look like they're following along, but inside they're saying, you know, you're not the boss of me. I am the boss of me at all times. And it's because that's how they feel a lot of power and control. So I can usually ask a three and an eight, do you care what other people think about you? And I'm not talking about your innermost circle of people you love the most. I'm talking about, do you kind of care that the Uber driver likes you on the drive or the checkout cashier? Because I'm a three and I could say, yeah, okay, deep down, I do kind of just want everybody in the world, you know, to like me because it's that relational center. The eight is like I could care less.

SPEAKER_02:

Like I am a screaming eight if those are the two moments.

SPEAKER_01:

I want my people to love me and I care what they think, but do I care what a random? No, I do not. And so that's a really fun way to kind of look at the two numbers. It's a perfect example.

SPEAKER_02:

It's an absolutely perfect example because I'm listening to you talk and a three, and I was like, okay, like maybe sort of. And then you get to the eight, and I was like, oh yeah, no, that is like that is so much more me. Just that is that is just more me and how I behave. So then let's we'll just use me as an example. Let's say, you know, we determine I'm an eight. Then what how do you help people with that knowledge? What do they do with that information?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh man, Gene, I love, I love that you thought to ask this question because there are so many accounts on Instagram that are absolutely adorable. I love them, I follow them that have all the fun Instagram memes, like, you know, if I were a sweater, this is what I'd be, and like all the numbers, you know, or if I was a Starbucks drink, or it just there's so many fun, silly ones. But as with any tool or framework, if it isn't helping you live a better life, become a better version of yourself, if it isn't serving as a guide or a map to accessing like the most authentic parts of you, then it's like, well, okay, it's really interesting, but like, what's the actual point? So the first thing that we do in Enneagram work is that we really get we uncover the motivation and the blind spots, the things that are tripping us up within our own number. And so it's it's a kind of a self-awareness first type of thing. If I know what is kind of trying to sabotage me in the background, then when it happens, I can see it, I can address it. But most people, this is crazy to me, but most people actually have no idea what's going on in the subconscious. But all we have to do is bring it to the light just a couple of times. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, I see it now. It's like when you get the red car and then you see all the red cars. So, you know, I'm gonna go to a different number. I'm I'm gonna go to the Enneagram two. So, what the Enneagram Two is known as a helper. They're always jumping in, helping everybody else, usually at the expense of their own needs and taking care of themselves. And so when we illuminate to the Enneagram two, that it is actually pride that is driving this constant need to make everybody else happy. It's a need to feel important, it's a need to be needed, the need to be needed. Like when we illuminate that, yeah, it's a little painful at first, but usually, you know, we kind of we like to call it like the we're letting people in on the on the joke. Like, so we try to we try to laugh a lot and just go, I mean, do you see it? And then it's like, oh my gosh, yeah, I see it. You know? And so once you see it, then the next time you're jumping in to do something that is over the line, no one's asked you to do, and you will go, oh, oh shoot, pride is here. What am I wanting? And then you ask a few self-aware questions. Is this mine to do? How do I know they want my help? Like those are some of the questions then we equip you with to make sure that there's not something running in the subconscious that's literally, especially for the Enneagram too, literally almost killing them because they're doing so much. And we can go, wait, hold on. This isn't the best, this isn't the highest use of your gifts of who you were made to be, of who you're capable of being. Pride is trying to sabotage you. So that's just like one example. And you're probably curious for uh the eight, right? Yeah, sure. Why not? So the eight, that little monster that is kind of trying to self-sabotage the eight is called lust for intensity. And so it is a need to experience in an intense kind of way. And so we know we'll play that out, we'll show it, and then all of a sudden it's like, wait, why am I this project actually requires a six? Why am I going at it at an 11 out of 10? You know, yeah. And it's it's just that constant drive for intensity, and it often causes you to maybe push away people that are trying to come close to you. So that's an example.

SPEAKER_02:

Couldn't be more true to me personally.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And I kind of can twist that to be like, okay, sort of like an overachiever. It's like, okay, why at one point in time do I feel like I need to redo my profile on LinkedIn and redo my profile on Instagram and oh, update my entire website, and oh, change the about page. And like I very quickly get myself down this like rabbit hole of work that is not necessarily the best use of my time at that point in time to be driving forward the initiatives that I have. And I have to have a very serious awareness of that, given an entrepreneur, because I very quickly can be like, oh my God, I love this. I want to write a book. I'm gonna spend all this time. I'm gonna write a book, I'm gonna self-publish a book. And now, you know, it's like I get myself down these little paths, and everything has to be like big too. There it is.

SPEAKER_01:

Everything has to be big.

SPEAKER_02:

Everything has to be big. That's everything has to be big.

SPEAKER_01:

That's it right there.

SPEAKER_02:

Everything has to be big. Everything has to be big. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so fascinating. Yeah. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So it's really insightful when you can just start to like peel back the layers. And it's not just the things that are sabotaged. I mean, it's also the things that you're gifted to do and the ways to utilize your number and and make it work for you and not against you. So like those are really, really good things. Do you think it would be helpful if I just said the sort of the title of each of the nine numbers? Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely, you know, is obviously wait. Okay, I don't think I'm the three or the eight. They're kind of talking. Yes. So in a word, the number one is called the reformer. And the number one is constantly looking out into the world and within themselves, seeing what could be reformed, seeing what could be improved, seeing what could be better, and then feeling a sense of responsibility to fix it. Yeah. The number two is called the helper. And they are looking for relational connection through helping and serving. So do they love helping and serving? Yes, they totally do. What is the actual driver for that help and serve is they want to be connected to people. They need people and connection and they sense that the only way they're allowed to have that is if they can be super helpful or serve somebody. The three is called the achiever. And the three is looking to perform and achieve efficiently and successfully. And, you know, the three avoids failure. And so what makes me really sad about my experience as a three and what I'll often talk with other threes about is, you know, a three will look like they have a lot going on. They can get so much done and they do things that they're very successful at because that's a very that's how they're proving their worth in the world, right? Like, well, if I'm successful, then I'm worthy. Okay. How many things does the three really want deep down to do, but they're too afraid to try because they're afraid they will fail? So my favorite question to a three is like, what are you not doing?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I see that you've done all this successful stuff, but like, what's on your heart that you're not doing? Because you're so afraid you're gonna fail.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's a powerful question.

SPEAKER_01:

The big thing for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

The uh four is called the individualist, and the four wants to be seen and known. They are the most emotional of the nine numbers on the on the Enneagram scale, and they will they want to be known so authentically and so uniquely, but they also believe that everyone else is equally as unique and they want to know them in an authentic way too. The five is called the investigator. This is our deep thinker. This person can, they're looking for safety and security. They're in that that thinking space. And so they are going to be able to take lots of information and analyze it and make it make sense. And the five is constantly searching to be very competent and be very independent through their knowledge. The six is called the loyalist. The loyalist, they want to do their responsibility, their duties, their obligations. They are always scanning for risks. They are able to do worst-case scenario thinking better than anybody. And uh, they sometimes struggle to trust themselves, but they are out there looking for safety and security through being prepared, being responsible, having seven backup plans. Like that's their that's their way of being very safe and secure. The seven is called the enthusiast, and they want to avoid pain. So the enthusiast is like, let's just have a good time. I they want to have a ton of options out there because if anything gets too painful, they want to move on to the next one. They're so fun to have around. However, they're so quick to avoid pain, and that's the pain of being bored, the pain of mundane things, and pain in relationship or you know, parenting. I mean, it it's a it's a blessing and a curse, really. It is so that's the seven.

SPEAKER_02:

The eight I know some of those.

SPEAKER_01:

You do. Okay. Oh, yeah. The uh the eight we call the challenger, and this is just the I'm gonna exert enough energy so that nobody will will try to control me. The eight just simply does not want to be controlled. They don't have to be in control all the time, but they will not be controlled by someone else. And then the nine we call the mediator. They are the one that is looking to kind of control the world around them by making sure everybody on out here is okay and not rocking any boats. Their favorite phrase is like, let's not rock the boat. Oh, that would take too much energy to enter that conflict. It's easier to just stay quiet, go with the flow, and don't rock the boat.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that because as you're talking, there's some of them where I'm like, Yeah, I could see how I could be like that in certain situations. And others, I'm like, there's absolutely none of that in my personality at all. Yeah. So it's so fascinating. It is. All right. So, how do you then take that and apply that in the coaching world? I think I know how you do that because I understand what you do as a coach, but how does that transition happen and how are you using that tool to help you as a life coach?

SPEAKER_01:

As a life coach, I have clients that are highly familiar with the Enneagram because maybe they've gone through one of my classes or maybe they've self-taught themselves through, you know, books and podcasts and all the things. I also have clients who don't know the Enneagram, don't know their number. And to be honest, because the Enneagram is my specialty, I was a little nervous, like, well, am I going to be able to coach well somebody who doesn't speak this same language? And the truth of the matter is I'm able to use my lens and my knowledge to maybe see some gaps where where I don't have to label it in the Enneagram words in order to maybe ask or kind of talk, explore, bringing out, like, hey, do you think fear is at play here? And I might know in my mind, like why I've chosen fear because of the way it fits into this framework of the Enneagram, but don't necessarily have to have the framework in order or the same language with the client in order to work with them. Now, I love, love working with cohorts of women who have gone through a deep dive with the Enneagram and then kind of putting that together. And that's that's what I was mentioning earlier before we got on this call here was that I have a new programming and it's called Intermission. And so it actually blends this deeper Enneagram work with community and with private coaching, and it works beautifully. So it's sort of all of it together.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. So share what that is because I think intermission and I think like midpoint in life, maybe at a pause, maybe at a break. You tell me what does that mean to you and to the people, you know, who are the people that joined such a thing and such a cohort? And I'm gonna do what we're taught not to do in coaching. I'm gonna ask you two questions at once because I know you can remember. Like, what does it mean to mean? Who are the type of people to join? And then what is a cohort? Like, what is entailed in that? What does that even mean? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So we've been friends for about, I don't know, all of 2025, at least, anyway. Yes, in our in our coaching world. I don't know if you know this about me, but I am a musical theater girl. So I I studied musical theater in college. I worked on cruise ships after college was over. I've done a lot of musical theater. I love the storytelling that happens in musical theater. I'm drawn to stories, I'm drawn to transformation. I love the way that theater can bring those things to life. Okay. So fast forward then to that moment in my life when I was in my mid-40s and going, who am I? Why am I here? What am I doing? I was approaching that empty nest timing. I could see it like very clearly right in front of me. About to happen. And I just thought, what? Is it over? Like, is my is are the best years of my life behind me? Because these two children that I love more than anything. I mean, like, they're gonna fly. And what does that mean to me? And I just I needed an intermission. I needed a pause in my story. And so what I have found is that most women at some point in the middle of the story in the midlife, which I mean, technically, is it right in the middle? I hope so. I hope we all live to be 90 or 100 years old. But somewhere between like 45 and 55-ish, there comes this point when it's like, okay, act one feels like the story is it was really good. And, or maybe it was really hard, or maybe it was really inspiring. But what in the world? What does act two look like? Do I have to just sit back and watch it happen? Do I just wait and see and go, well, I guess time will tell, or do I get to actually be an active co-writer and co-author of Act Two of Life? Yes. And so Intermission asks this question and women, it's limited. I do three cohorts a year. It's limited to 12 women. And we kick off with the deeper Enneagram work. We start that first. We we kind of get to know each other through doing some private little Enneagram. Classes where we figure out everybody's number and then I teach, you know, some of those big concepts with Enneagram. Then we go on a retreat. This is my favorite part because we just did one in the most beautiful area of Indiana in the fall. It was just gorgeous in southern Indiana. In the spring, when it's snowing here, we are going to head to Arizona and do the retreat in sunny Arizona. So we we travel, we go on a retreat together, and that's where we get, we write our purpose statements. We applaud Act One. We take what have we learned? What does Act One give us that we would not have if we had not lived through what we have lived through? Wherever we are now, whether that's brink of that's recovering from divorce or whether that's widowhood or emptiness, whatever it is where we are now, what have we been given from Act One? And how can we applaud that and be grateful for it? And then how can we get really intentional about act two? So we take the work and we go, I know who I am now, I know how I'm wired. I I know how I'm wired, and I know my unique purpose statement. That's a huge piece of the intermission experience. Sure. Yes. And then we go on the retreat, we bond, we have monthly cohort meeting and then private coaching to really customize that co-authoring of Act Two to the individual. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. That sounds so powerful. It's been really fun. Do you change every time you do it? Do you feel like you sort of evolve in like a tiny little way? You learn something new about yourself too. 100%.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. 100%.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. It's one of the gifts of coaching, is that I feel like we we grow as our clients grow, we grow too. I learn from my clients every day. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's one of the gifts of self-awareness too, and of being willing to like go there and learn more about yourself.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

You value that. I know that about you. And I think you said on a recent podcast, like sometimes you grow and you grow and you become self-aware. And then all of a sudden you look around and you're like, oh, wait, the people I'm with didn't also grow.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That can be really hard. But it's, you know, it's it's the reality of if if there are people that are investing in knowing themselves and their purpose and their life better, and those that aren't, there's gonna be a natural, a natural separation.

SPEAKER_02:

It is. I love how you phrase it as an act one and an act two, because I also try to look at it as some of those relationships, like they served a purpose at that time, that stage that you were in in life, or or that act, if we want to use the same terminology, is like those people served a role in that act. And just because they're not part of the next act doesn't diminish the role that they played in the first act. It just means that that character just is not part of the story anymore. And I think coming to that realization helps us get, at least for me, it helped me find peace in the people that had sort of moved out. And then you need that peace because then you can start to recognize the people that move in for act two. And yeah, they look different. And that's cool, and that's okay. You know, it's like that they're serving a purpose. And many times the people I look at right now that are in my act two, they wouldn't have fit in act one. Like they just they probably wouldn't have actually fit with me and that person that I was in act one. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Like you weren't ready for each other at that point, right? Both yeah, yeah. And the beauty of it is everyone is invited to grow. Like growth, awareness, it's not a club that's close. Like anybody can do it. It just takes it's a little scary, and it's you know, it's super humbling to be willing to like look in the shadows and go, ugh, yeah, I don't love that about myself, but I'm willing to look at it because I know that I can grow and and shift and change. But yeah, I love that what you said about the characters in Act One serving a role, and I think that's why it's important to be grateful.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Because it might not have felt like a gift at the time, but our development, the way that we become who we are, is a result of all the chapters before us.

SPEAKER_02:

All of them, right, yes, and with so many different players as well. I think there are a lot of people that are in that age group of the intermission, like you talked about, who are going through a divorce. And that's really hard too, or changing careers, or having parents become people that they are now caregivers of, which is like a whole new role as a human being. And those are just different times and require a lot of inner reflection and growth work and a lot of soul searching to figure out who am I now, because my role has potentially changed as well. My identity has changed.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And, you know, I think a big caution to anybody that's in this stage of life of you're not fully raising your kids anymore. I mean, you'll always be their parent, but you know, maybe you've you've empty nested or they're they're young adults. If you don't get clear on, again, who you are and why you walk the planet, then that same, that raising the kids energy that kind of got maybe kind of got you sucked in, it will just transfer to taking care of your elders. And you have to be able to care for your loved ones in a way that honors them without diminishing who you are this time. Yes. Like you get to you get to be who you are, and you get to have ownership of that and take care of others because that's the cycle of life, but without sacrificing your whole self.

SPEAKER_02:

Agreed. You get to matter.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you. You get to matter.

SPEAKER_02:

That is absolutely you get to matter, yes. And I just saw you into Greece recently, and that is definitely a I matter kind of trip. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Wait, my husband and I celebrated 25 years of marriage. We fested this fall. I turned 50. So, like, we had all kinds of little celebrations like piled up, and so we we celebrated on that trip, and it was wonderful.

SPEAKER_02:

It looked amazing. Highly recommend. It looked so incredible. Yeah. So let's switch gears. I want to just talk about wellness for a little bit because, like you said, the the club is not closed for people who want to do some personal growth work. And I think there's a very common trait among people who are in this club, which is wellness matters. However, they want to define wellness, wellness, mind, body, spirit matters. And some people are much stronger on one of those mind, body, spirit spectrums, or one is like much stronger in their lives than the other. But wellness matters to most of the people that I've met and to every podcast guest I have. So if you wouldn't mind, what does wellness look like in your life? And how do you keep those things being a priority in life?

SPEAKER_01:

What a great question, coach. Wellness to me is a lot about the balance of priority. So, and I know there is no such thing as perfect balance. Like you're not, you're not 33% balanced in spirit, 33% body, 33% in mind. Like I understand that. When I am out of balance, I feel unwell. And so I could be rocking it in my physical health. But if my spiritual health is in the tank, I don't feel well, you know? And so that's the game, right? Of trying to figure out how do I create enough margin to care for this one body and one life and one soul that I get to have while I walk the planet. So on a more practical level, it's just being very mindful of what I how I nurture myself. So water, walks, reading, taking some time off on the weekends. I I used to never take a day off. I do a lot better at taking a day off now. So it's like what is filling me up? Because it's just those little small steps that make the biggest difference for me. They do. They do.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. And as you said, for you, and it's important for everyone to find the thing for them. And I feel like one of the things that we are both fortunate to do as coaches and as podcast hosts and all the other things we do is just to expose people to the things that are out there. And you need to figure out and find the thing that's right for you and to bring it back full circle to Enneagram. You know, based on your number, there might be some things that are going to resonate more strongly with you than others. And and lean into that as opposed to trying to be like round circle square peg. You know, everybody else says I have to go to the gym and uh sweat and run and do a marathon. And that might not be your jam. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And how often I think seasons change too. You know, I used to be really, I used to really love CrossFit. And like that was like my thing for a while. And now I just really like yoga and walks. And I sometimes I'm like, is something wrong with me that I don't want to like do that? And it's like, no, it's just a new season for me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Uh that's true.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. I actually did a whole series on health and wellness, like around your number. And again, you just take the same framework and you filter it when you look at your fitness or your wellness or your weight loss or your spirituality, whatever, and you go, Oh, okay. Yep, that's motivating to me. That's a draining. This is uh gonna be rewarding, and that I'm not gonna care about. You know, it so you're totally right that in the world of the Enneagram, it can be so beneficial for all matters, parenting, friendship, stress, relief, all of it.

SPEAKER_02:

Do you use chat? This is a total side subject, but something that just occurred to me. Do you use chat GPT to help or tell your clients to use chat GPT to help them understand their number and how it applies to life? Or no, because chat is just such a broad algorithm of pulling data together.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I was just having this conversation yesterday and I would say no. So I will use it to help me start to brainstorm, like for podcast episodes or something like that. And so I find it a healthy brainstorming tool for me. But when I go through it and I actually am looking at what it's suggesting, it's not, it's not accurate enough in my mind. So not yet. I don't think it's accurate enough yet to really. That's why I'm asking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

That's why I'm asking. Because I'm a huge, I use chat, but I feel like it has a time and a place. And I think sometimes in some situations, people tend to rely on it too much.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And it doesn't personalize things enough for them. You know, like there are people out there that could say, What do I need a life coach for? I have Chat GPT.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, and I'm like, it's kind of not exactly the same thing. It's not, it's not, it's not customized, it's not taken into account. Yeah, there's just, it's just not deep enough yet. So like you could learn at a very high level. You could learn about yourself. But there'd probably be a few things that are like, yeah, no, that's not really a thing. And there'd probably be, you know, it'd be an okay place to start, but it's definitely, I would, I would rather somebody go to podcasts with, you know, Enneagram people that spend their time studying and coaching. The thing with the Enneagram that's so cool is when you study it in a community and you can have such a blast of no of learning from the other numbers. Because I think there's basically three relationships that the Enneagram really helps you nail. That is the relationship with yourself, yes, relationship with other human beings. So your family members, your coworkers, just your community, but then also your relationship to your, you know, to God or the universe or however you want to, you know, word that it's like because we are relational human beings and we are created in relationship and for relationship, it just seems to me like it is such a high-value relationship tool. And so when you're studying it together, I have had more times than I could count. Somebody will say that they're having a really hard time with either a best friend or a husband or somebody. Then someone in our cohort is the same number as that said best friend or said husband. And they go, Oh, well, like here's the way I think about it. And then the person is like, What? That's what they're thinking. Oh my gosh. And then their compassion and their it's like the disconnect kind of goes away because they have a just a better understanding. So all of that to say that was a long answer to say chat is not human. So I really think having a human teaching it is is best. So podcasts, books, classes, cohorts, things like that.

SPEAKER_02:

I love it. All right. So you mentioned podcasts. So we're gonna come back to where we started. Okay. What made you decide that you wanted to do your own podcast?

SPEAKER_01:

Two two two primary things. First, people ask me a lot of questions about the Enneagram. You know, they they kind of know that that's that's my thing. And so they'd say, well, what about like this? And so I thought to myself, you know, that would be a fun thing for me to just talk about and just have out there for people to consume. It's something they could access for free. They don't have to sign up for anything. So I just thought, I think it would be nice to be able to have my own voice in the Enneagram conversation out there.

unknown:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

And then the second reason is frankly, because I it's so important to me as a tool that has transformed my life and many of the people that then I work with. And I also just there's not too much out there. I mean, there's a lot if you really go down the rabbit hole, but I just really want more people to know it from a practical standpoint, which is why I only do nine-minute episodes. I'm like just a little dose of Enneagram wisdom for the day, you know. And so I do like an intro episode, and then I'll just do one episode per number, nine minutes or less, and just a little, little Enneagram bite, bite-sized pieces, I guess.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's just a great way for people to get exposed to what it means. How do you apply it? What do you do with it? See if your interest is peaked to then take it to another level. It's practical. I want it to be practical. Practical. It's very practical. And so Living Well by Jen, everybody. Yeah. Everywhere people can find podcasts? Everywhere. Yep. YouTube and all the platforms. I love it. We will put it in the show notes as well. Thank you. Okay. So before we run out of time, I'd love to ask every one of my guests if they have a book that they would like to recommend that has impacted them personally or professionally. I am a true believer that books change lives. So what book or books? Some people can't narrow it down to one. What book or books would you like to recommend to the listeners?

SPEAKER_01:

I think I'll recommend the first book I ever read about the Enneagram when I was coming back to it in my mid-40s. Uh, and it's called The Road Back to You by Suzanne Swabiel. And it's a book. You do have it?

SPEAKER_02:

I no, I don't have it, but I've heard of it. And I didn't know it was about the Enneagram. It is about the Enneagram.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's very digestible. So it is for like the Enneagram beginner, which is why it's one of the ones I recommend when people are first getting started.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. I'm gonna have to get that one because I do try to buy all the books that everybody recommends and read them as well. Ah, all right. Before we sign off, how can people get in touch with you? What's the best way to find you? And I will put this in the show notes too, but some people don't go to the show notes. So how can people get in touch with you, follow you, find you?

SPEAKER_01:

So Living Well by Jen on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and LinkedIn. And, you know, I read all my DMs every single day. So if you just message me, I promise it's me and not a chat bot on the other side. Um, I'm not that, you know, not that cool yet or something. I don't know. I I love having conversations with people that are actually listening to the podcast and such. So the best way to, if you have a question for me is simply just shoot me a message. I'll reply back to you.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. And I do, I'm with you. I I handle all my own social media and I respond to everything. And I think it's it's just a part of my business that I don't want to give up because that personal connection with the people on the other side is so nice. And it's just nice for them to know that there's actually a real human being and not a robot or not an admin that is responding to their questions or whatever they have to say. So thank you for that. Uh, Jen, you are a dear friend. Thank you so much for explaining Enneagram to everybody. Your coaching program is so unique. I put it all in the show notes. I really encourage people to reach out to Jen, whether you're interested in learning about Enneagram or you're interested in her cohorts, is she's doing some really amazing work. And I thank you for that. And everybody, stay tuned until next week. Have a beautiful day. Thank you. Bye. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the House of Germar podcast, where wellness starts within. We appreciate you being a part of our community and hope you felt inspired and motivated by our guest. If you enjoyed this episode, please write us a review and share it with friends. Building our reach on YouTube and Apple Podcasts will help us get closer to our mission to empower one million women to live all in. You can also follow us on Instagram at House of Germar and sign up to be a part of our monthly inspiration newsletter through our website, houseofgermar.com. If you or someone you know would be a good guest on the show, please reach out to us at podcast at houseofgermar.com. This has been House of Germar Production with your host, Gene Collins. Thank you for joining our house.