Ep.43: How to Parent Tweens and Teens Without Losing Your Mind

Buckle up. In this episode, we get real about what it's like to raise kids between the ages of 10 to 18 in a world that looks nothing like the one we grew up in. From the emotional rollercoaster of middle school years to navigating social media, anxiety, and the constant pressure to be “on,” we break down the mental load parents are carrying—and what actually helps. Spoiler: It’s not control, and it’s definitely not panic.

Join us as we unpack what long-leash parenting really looks like, why emotional regulation (yours and theirs) is key, and how to create that solid, secure attachment your kids need—without micromanaging them into dysfunction. Whether you’re dealing with defiance, withdrawal, or just trying to keep your cool through the chaos, this episode will leave you feeling seen, supported, and maybe even a little more sane.

Episode Highlights:

[0:03] - Why parenting tweens and teens feels harder than ever.
 [1:43] - Understanding adolescent brain development and modern challenges.
 [4:35] - Colette shares her anxious “blue dot” tracking phase and why it’s so relatable.
 [6:13] - The “long leash, large corral” approach to parenting.
 [10:29] - Replacing lectures with Socratic conversations to foster trust and independence.
 [13:49] - Colette’s unforgettable car ride convo and why staying calm matters.
 [16:50] - How to view misbehavior as a lack of skills—not a reason to punish.
 [17:33] - Why regulating your emotions is the parenting superpower.
[19:50] - The horse whisperer metaphor that’ll change how you parent forever.
[24:32] - Parenting the “Polaroid” child: Navigating confusing or unclear behavior.
[26:35] - Laura’s Life360 obsession and the new realities of teen safety.
[30:18] - Why social kids might actually fare better than isolated ones.
[33:41] - The dangerous rise of incel ideology and digital radicalization.
[34:50] - The case for no phones in schools and delayed access to social media.
[36:13] - Rejection in the age of Instagram: why it hits harder now.
[38:59] - Talking to your teen about the long game and giving them vision.
[40:50] - The crushing pressure of college admissions and why it’s unsustainable.
[41:41] - Final takeaways: connection over control, collaboration over lecturing.
[44:32] - Letting go: Adolescence as labor and the importance of separation.
[44:57] - One last reminder: regulate your emotions and help them learn to do the same.

Resources:

📝 Download the Parenting Tweens & Teens Worksheet: insightsfromthecouch.org

📺 Watch “The Horse Whisperer” 

📚 The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt

📺 The Netflix series “Adolescence” 

📱 Life360 (for those who love a little tracking reassurance)

💌 Reach out to us anytime at: info@insightsfromthecouch.org

Make sure to visit the “Resources” page on our website www.insightsfromthecouch.org to download the worksheet and take ways that accompany each episode. This is hugely important as we are now creating a download that is unique to each episode and working hard to create an email list to support our programming offerings moving forward.

Transcript

Colette Fehr: 0:03

Welcome back to insights from the couch. Today we're diving into raising and surviving tweens and teens. So if you're a parent and you've got kids in that age, God knows what it really is now, even maybe 1110, or 11 to 18, this episode is for you. We're going to explore how to discern when you should intervene, what the best parenting strategies are for keeping your sanity, because this is a difficult stage of parenting, especially in today's world. And don't forget to go to our website, insights from the couch.org, to download a worksheet that will help you with tips to survive this phase of life. Let's dive in, Laura. We've got a lot to say about this.

Laura Bowman: 0:50

Oh my god. I guess I first want to say, like, not all tweens and teens are the same. So I think that this exists on a continuum with some really, really tough problems that parents face in this phase. I mean, you can run in headlong into addiction in this age. You can have eating disorders you're dealing with. You can have bullying. You can have really complex learning issues. You can have mental health concerns that are burgeoning, that you don't really understand what you're seeing. So and then some kids are really, I mean, God, I hate to use the word normal, typical. And parents are like, I don't know. This was not that hard. And even in families, if you have enough kids, you're going to get a little bit of everything. So I just want to be compassionate to people who really are pushed

Colette Fehr: 1:44

to their wits end at this phase. Yeah. And maybe also, we could begin by two things come to mind to me. First of all, developmentally, what this phase is with the brain? Even, you know, many people have heard, I'm sure, that the brain is not fully developed, but it's really true. And this is supposed to be a stage where kids try things, make mistakes and learn, and that's really consistent with the development of the brain. Kids don't have a fully formed prefrontal cortex during this time. In fact, it's not fully formed until the early to mid 20s, so kids still need parental guidance, but they also need some space to make mistakes and learn on their own, and that is really the best thing parents can do during this phase, is to focus on guidance rather than control. The second thing I want to highlight before we dive in completely is that this is a very different time from when we as Gen X women were growing up. Back then, it used to be that kids went through almost the teenage rebellion, the teenage equivalent of a midlife crisis, when developmentally kids were separating from parents, and for many of us with boomer parents, this was just a total rejection of our parents, outright everything they thought they knew their culture. We wanted nothing to do with them. We were, you know, sneaking out of the house, making out with boys or girls or whatever else, experimented with drugs and alcohol, sometimes telling our parents to fuck off. Or maybe I'm just speaking for myself, because I was definitely my most rambunctious and rebellious during the tween years. But in today's world, the landscape has changed, and kids, in fact, one of the bigger struggles is that kids don't really know how to connect. They lack social skills. They're anxious. We know from Jonathan hates book, the anxious generation. This is one of the biggest problems. So it's not kids, you know, racing off and rejecting their parents anymore, a stage that was difficult for parents, but we knew would end, and kids would kind of even out for most kids. Now it's this anxiety, this lack of social development, and then also the world we live in is scarier than ever, and the problems are really complex and different with AI, with a lack of connection, right? I mean, it's social media. You're

Laura Bowman: 4:21

like, depressing me as you're talking. I'm like, there are so many issues. It's like, squirrel, squirrel. Like, right? I mean, as parents, it's so easy to live in, like, such a heightened state of anxiety, of like, what am I supposed to be doing? Absolutely,

Colette Fehr: 4:36

and I don't know about you, but during my kids are now 21 and Charlotte will be 24 on Wednesday, which blows my mind. But the tween years were harder for me, in a way. The middle school years, just like I was, were harder for me with my girls, than the teen years, but I did feel in a constant state of anxiety, whether it was they were going to their first party and what was going to go on. Her worries about sexual assault. As a mother of two daughters when they first started driving, and I've laughed with you about this a million times, I would follow because Charlotte was the first her blue dot down, I four and literally think I was having a panic attack picturing cars smashing into her at every at every mile I know. So there's a lot just even in the normal realm. Not to mention, how do we help kids navigate social media that is hijacking brains for the worse?

Laura Bowman: 5:31

Okay, there's so much to talk about. Like, where do we start? I mean, I I want to start. I love the the term, and I say this a lot in therapy is like, I subscribe, and I think you do too. I feel like we're aligned on this, yes to the long leash, large corral, theory of parenting, laissez faire, yeah. Like, I see it as, like, a huge I've got, there's guardrails. They're like, I'm watching. I'm paying attention. But they are playing at the swimming pool. I'm like checking to make sure no one's drowning, but I am very much allowing all of my kids to be who they are. Yeah, are you the same on that?

Colette Fehr: 6:13

Oh my gosh, absolutely. I think that this is one of the tragedies of this time, is that's what's getting lost, and we talked about this before in our episode on like helicopter and lawn mower parenting. Yeah, parents who not only hover but the lawn mower phenomenon being remove every obstacle. It's really actually dangerous for your child in the long term, because they don't develop any problem solving skills and they can't navigate the world. In fact, let me give one example. Charlotte's going to be 24 okay? So I believe in this mentality that we're talking about, and yet, as a mom who the thing I care about most in this world is my kids, and I think every parent would would relate to that, right? Nothing else really matters to me at the end of the day, and in my head, I believe in this, in my heart and in my nervous system, I sometimes struggle with it, even little things like I'm trying to Charlotte's coming to meet me for something this weekend. I've bought her a plane ticket. She has to switch planes. She's 24 I got married at 24 Okay, yeah, but Charlotte also has dyslexia and ADHD, and I'm not making excuses, but there are things where I worry about her getting to the airport not seeing the wrong time on the ticket. So I found myself yesterday going like, Oh my God, I've got to, like, figure out all her flights and download her boarding pass. And then I was like, What the hell am I doing? Like, I need to help her, give her a little bit of information, give her some guidance on what to do, because again, this will be harder for her than it might be for some other 24 year old. And then, you know what? If she misses the flight, she misses the flight, she's got to learn. And probably, if she heard this, which she never will. She'd be like, Are you kidding me, Mom, I can download my own boarding pass, right? This is less her lack of capability than my worry. Yeah. And that's the thing, you know, like, I remember, like, when I was growing up, my mom would always, like, as soon as you had, like, a scratchy throat, she's like, you need an antibiotic. I mean, I think my mom thinks, like, you need an antibiotic for literally every bag for everything. She's like, well, better to know what you lived from than what you died from, you know, like, you know, just, like, she just thinks the investor was the thing, yeah? And, like, I always did this thing, and she just couldn't stand me doing this with the kids, where I'd like, see that they were getting a little, like, under the weather, and I would take this wait and see approach, yeah. Like, will this resolve? Like, is this like a virus, see thing, or, like, do I really need to take them to the doctor because they've got like, a raging fever, and it's like, my metaphor is, can you do the same thing with your kids in these in this phase of life? Can you watch? Can you take a beat and go. I'm not sure which direction this is going to go, but I'm going to stay attuned to it and have some instincts around what to do next without flooding the zone with like antibiotic or rescue or, you know, preempt, right, right? And I think part of it is training yourself, because really at this stage. And we want to give you guys some things to focus on as women who are sort of through this phase for the most part, both of us, even though you're a little bit maybe 17, yeah, so you're almost there, then you're, in a way, really out of the worst time. But we want to give you a couple things to really think about and focus on things I wish I knew during that phase that would have helped me, and also just kind of synthesize a couple points, and one of them, I think, is really not to confuse control with guidance. I hear so many parents as a therapist and even out in the world really micromanaging. Children, and what we really want to do in this phase is equip them with a good value system and help them support them in learning how to make good decisions. And if we rush in and make all the decisions for them, whether it's whisking them off to the doctor or setting such hard, rigid rules around things that perhaps don't matter that much, we're going to really, like, clip our kids and hamper their ability to navigate the adult world.

Laura Bowman: 10:30

Yeah, and I think the how on that is, like, really this, like, Socratic collaboration method, right? It's not like you, because I think that you can get into this cycle with your kids when your anxiety is high, stakes are high sometimes at kids of lecturing, teaching, preaching, you know, instructing in this. Like, what you really need to do now is you need to do this. So you need to do that. And I can't believe you haven't thought about this, you will get, like, strong, armed by your kid at a certain point, they will tune you out. They will keep you out of their life if they if they feel too much of this coming

Colette Fehr: 11:05

to towards and they won't turn to you in times of need, no,

Laura Bowman: 11:09

because it's to this. It's too much, it's too hard. You know, they know that your anxiety is going to get triggered, and then they're just going to be dealing with that.

Colette Fehr: 11:18

Or they know they're going to get lectured, yeah, yeah, so instead of like because I said so or this is what you need to do, I'm telling you I know more than you. Let's talk about why this matters, right? Let's talk about Teach them why something is important and like anything. I love your point about the Socratic method, it's a great way. That's where you ask questions, and then you ask questions about the questions for those people who may not be familiar with that term, and you really help somebody get to their own truth. It's so much more powerful than dictating something the brain just doesn't engage the same way. How amazing if you could empower your children to come to some kind of fundamental truth on their own while you're providing those guardrails, and your best friend in these moments is going to be your ability to listen with non judgmental curiosity.

Laura Bowman: 12:15

You are going to just keep your mouth shut. You're going to ask a well placed question, and then you're just gonna fall back and listen with interest. Let

Colette Fehr: 12:23

me tell you something. I have one little quickie story you've probably heard. I will not say which daughter to protect the privacy, but one time during I don't remember exactly how old she she was, but I was in New York with one of my daughters in the car. I have no idea where we were going, and I was driving on the West Side Highway. I will never forget it. And this daughter was at an age where I think I wasn't prepared to have this kind of conversation, but I was navigating a conversation about this daughter becoming sexually active with a long time boy. Remember that? Yeah. And so I started asking questions because I wanted to see what was going on make sure there was safety. And I got a lot more than I bargained for. I mean, I heard about, like, orgasms, positions, and I'm driving, and my daughter said these things with such trust and faith and nonchalance. And on the one hand, I'm going, This is so great, ripping the steering wheel, gripping the wheel like this. I'm in the left lane. People are passing me, which, if you know me, I would never allow to happen. And I'm just like, Uh huh, uh huh. I'm like, Okay, well, so that orgasm wasn't so great, or you haven't had one yet, and I'm just thinking, in a million years, my mother, until she hears this podcast, still doesn't know I have sex and I have two kids. What is happening?

Laura Bowman: 13:50

You're the Virgin Mary. I'm the brightest next

Colette Fehr: 13:53

Immaculate Conception. You know, like, it's just not generationally as common. I think. Yeah, to give explicit details about such intimacies, but you want your kid to come to you with that stuff, because you do know more than them, and you are able to discern for safety, that's what's most important.

Laura Bowman: 14:15

No, I mean, and you can't, like fake or you, you can't construct a relationship that isn't there. So, like, that's such a testament to the everything that came before it, yeah, that she knew she could be so honest with you, yeah? Because a lot of kids, by this phase, are hiding their life, yeah. Mom can't handle this. Mom won't know to do with this. I would be so embarrassed to say this in front of her, yeah? So I think it's, you know, go back and listen to our good mother episode, because that's where the foundation of this is. Do you provide safety for your kids? Are you? Are you interested in them? Do they know that you have their back,

Colette Fehr: 14:54

right? And can you? This is where I think the non judgmental curiosity is key. And let me be clear. Earlier, and I know this is true for you too. We're not advocating when we talk about long leash, laissez faire, and it's nothing left no and it's not a lack of consequences when children make a mistake. This is not to say don't discipline. In fact, one of the problems in today's world is that there's probably too little discipline, but you want to create a space where kids feel comfortable opening up, and if there are consequences, they understand why, as much as possible, and they have some agency in their own lives. If I heard something where my kids were breaking a rule, then there would have to be some kind of consequence for that. But I do think because I managed, even though I'm the most expressive person without a poker face, I've listened to some shit that, like, I can't believe I kept kept a straight face where I was thinking, Oh my God, I want to, like, take my kid, lock them in the basement, even though we don't have basements in Florida, and not let them out till They're 27

Laura Bowman: 16:00

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just back to, like, consequences. I think a lot of times when, when there's a need to punish, quote, unquote, it's really that like a kid has a lack of skills. You know, I have a son that can sometimes get really angry and like it cues to me, like he does not know how to regulate his emotions around certain things and like he's got to get out of my house with some skills, you know, and that's to me, like, what I'm always trying to instill in my kids is when I see these deficits, or when I see like something that maybe another parent would have an instinct to punish. It's cueing me like, What do I still need to help them learn, help cultivate, yeah, and not in a preachy way, because it's not going to go in that way, but in a way, like, Okay, this is still a thing, and in a collaborative

Colette Fehr: 16:51

way. And I'm collaborative, yeah, yeah. And I'm so right. You're the executive subsystem. You're the parent. This isn't like equal we're besties, but you're there providing guidance, teaching this kid and their developing brain how they're going to start to navigate the adult world. This is what adolescence is supposed to be about, and I'm so glad you used that example, because I was going to say I was thinking about this, if I could tell a parent of a tween or teen, what I think one of the most important things you could do for your children is it would be to learn to regulate your freaking emotions and teach them how to do it, and

Laura Bowman: 17:33

then, of course, that you lead by example, like there is nothing like if you can't regulate your emotions. I mean, I have a kid right now that I work with where he can't regulate his emotions, and his father can't regulate his emotions, and the two of them are just like banging up against each other, but it's like, how can you teach something that you don't have right now in that system, it's just two angry, dysregulated people, yeah,

Colette Fehr: 17:59

yeah. And I feel like I'm so passionate about this for a couple of reasons. One, as a couple's therapist, the lack of ability to regulate emotions causes so much chaos. In fact, most of the chaos and it's hard because couples, right, are constantly pushing on each other's fight or flight systems. But regardless, the primary task, in my opinion of emotional maturity and being an adult is knowing how to regulate your emotions. And I say this with a soft spot for any of you who struggle with that, because I struggle with that. I am a very passionate, emotional person in my younger years. I mean, I'm quick to get over stuff, but I feel everything intensely. I used to throw shit, freak out, scream, say things. I mean, there are moments, but I have really learned to manage my emotions to a degree that sometimes even I'm shocked by even though I was yelling at my microphone as we got onto this podcast. That doesn't count. But yes, and I feel like this is the best skill. And to your point, kids learn the most, in a way, by what's modeled for them. So if you're lashing out in anger, your kid is learning, and they may also be genetically predisposed to this, if it's a trait, form of anger instead of a state form of anger. You know they're gonna say, Okay, I guess this is okay. And not only might they do that to others in their lives as an adult, but they may seek partners and friends who treat them badly and think it's okay because of how mom or dad acted.

Laura Bowman: 19:39

Yeah. I mean, you know what it reminds me of, like this whole emotional regulation, if you back to my long leash, large corral, let's use another horse metaphor. Have you seen the horse whisperer? No, wait,

Colette Fehr: 19:50

the movie from a million years ago? Yeah. I read the book. Yes. Okay with Robert Redford.

Laura Bowman: 19:55

The scene where the, you know, the horse is traumatized, the horse is freaking out. Out the Kristen Scott Thomas character is, like, eager to get the horse under control, right? It breaks free from this, like, wherever it is, and like, runs off into the field. And this is, you know, in this example, that's like the adolescent, like, ah, and the Robert Redford character, just like, walks into the field and, like, sits there and just stays, like all day, till that horse decides, like, you're steady enough that I can trust you, I'm gonna follow you. And then to me, that's the parent. Can you steady yourself in these storms enough that, like, the that child is, like, you got me, it's making you emotional. It is because, like,

Colette Fehr: 20:46

it's everything I know, and it's hard to do,

Laura Bowman: 20:49

and it's like, so few people get that. So few people get a person who can stay that calm and that steady in such emotional moments. The norm is that it we ricochet off of each other, and then the parents all frazzled, and then the kid feels like, oh geez. And it's like, I think everybody should watch that movie, that scene, if they would like to know how you're really going to, you know, steady your kid. You gotta steady

Colette Fehr: 21:18

yourself. I am not surprised to see tears in your eyes when you say this, because it is the greatest gift of adolescence to be that steady, consistent presence and to allow your child with that developing brain what comes with it, that emotional ability. They're going to be all over the place, their affect, they lack emotional regulation at that place, and some kids more than others. But if you can be there, and instead of being reactive and getting into a negative cycle where every argument escalates, if you can be the steady presence, you have your lines, you're not going to compromise on but because they're freaking out, you don't freak out back. You're both modeling and creating that safety and that trust, and you're you're setting, not setting an example. You are creating the heart of secure attachment that children will then look for in their adult relationships.

Laura Bowman: 22:15

Yes, ah, it's everything. It's everything, everything you want to be an effective parent, right there? Yes. And

Colette Fehr: 22:23

if you are having trouble regulating your emotions, go to therapy. Like, yeah. It's worth it,

Laura Bowman: 22:29

because some parents and kids are not great fits. We've talked about this before, but like, there will be some kids that just push you, push on vulnerable parts of you, undeveloped parts of you, old parts of you, and it's just like you're you're pulled into activation so much quicker than you'd want to be, and that's where and I have, I have clients that have come to therapy for that reason, and they're amazing for getting ahead of that.

Colette Fehr: 22:56

I've struggled with one child more than the other in terms of my own regulation. Ironically, the kid who's more like me is the one. It's always like that, right? Oh, we can escalate so we're super close, but it is just, she pushes my buttons. I push her buttons. Oh, yeah, it's challenging. I mean, I

Laura Bowman: 23:16

want to talk about like also that it's really confusing sometimes, as even as a person who's really attuned to their kids, like, I feel like children develop like Polaroids, you know, like the polaroid photo where it's like, you don't know quite what you're looking at as it's drying, as it's setting up. And I see this even, like, I've had clients where they've missed like that their child had a real serious anxiety disorder, and the kid was very, very angry, like, you didn't catch this. And the parents were like, we didn't know what we were looking at. And it's very easy as these developmental stages go along to go, oh, this is just this phase, or this just these friends, or it's just this weird school, or they didn't feel this way there. And then after you see 25 years of the chain laid out, you're finally able to go, oh, this is what it is. And so I think we have to have compassion for ourselves, watching these Polaroids develop and and like going, Okay, I I only had the information I had at the time, and I had to make the best decision at the time, and and that we know more as more time goes on, about what the core issues are with our kids, strengths, weaknesses, everything.

Colette Fehr: 24:32

Yeah, that's so true. And I think the Polaroid metaphor is perfect. It's beautiful. It really brings it to life. But you know what I'm also thinking as you say, this is that one of the dangers, you know, we're therapists, so we're more aware of some of what the issues might be. It doesn't make it any easier to parent. I'm not saying we have a leg up, just more information about some of the things that some people might so let's say our kids struggling with anxiety. We might be more prone to spot that and know what it is diagnostically and seek help for it, even potentially. But one of the dangers is that you're in a vacuum with your own kids, and you don't really know, especially if you have one child or the other is younger, you don't really have a lot to compare against in terms of what's normal. I don't mean from a like an okay about personality, but I mean about is your child struggling with something that they really need additional help and resources? And I would say err on the side of caution, and even if it's something like where you go talk to a therapist for one session, or do research or something, talk to somebody who is an expert in that field if you do suspect something, because getting a child help earlier can make such a huge difference in the trajectory of their life.

Laura Bowman: 25:57

Yeah, and I think there are certain situations that you have to, like, really get active in. I mean, I'm thinking anything with, like, addiction setting up. I'm thinking certain learning issues that really require parenting, health, safety,

Colette Fehr: 26:15

safety and health being first and foremost, right? Those are not the place to go. Sure. You know, back in the day, I'm thinking about it, my parents still don't know half the stuff that I went running around doing because I'd lie about where I was. There was no way to track anyone. And, you know, I'm dancing on the bar at a club doing shots at 16. Parents

Laura Bowman: 26:35

live without, like, life 360 well, like, I refresh that. Like I'm always looking like, oh, where? Oh, this one's driving, Okay, this one's still at school. Like, yeah, that has given me so much peace of mind, yeah. Well, I feel so sorry for

Colette Fehr: 26:49

our parents. Me too, especially since I was constantly like, I'm sleeping at so and so's house, and then I was in the city lying and saying I was eight years older than I was engaging in, really what I look back on. You know, I felt very savvy and mature, but I was doing I wasn't doing anything that bad. I wasn't sleeping with anyone. I wasn't doing drugs. I was just like wanting to be mischievous and exercise my budding personality. But I was putting myself into situations that as a parent. Now I'm like, oh my god,

Laura Bowman: 27:24

I could have, would you have intervened on you? Yes, oh my god, yes, I would like, what would you have done with you as a parent? Oh,

Colette Fehr: 27:34

it's so hard because So the approach of like, we're gonna lock you down kind of thing or talk about fit with parenting. If I had a stern parent who was like my way, I would not I would have just been rebelled more. And I saw that in my first Catholic school experience, where, when I went to a different Catholic school, where they understood my spirit and they didn't try to crush it, but they did hold guardrails. I really thrived in that. So I think my parents did a really pretty good job, because they did confront things, what they knew about, but they didn't. They never crushed my spirit. However, I think that, you know, I can't really fault them. They just didn't know what they didn't know. And I was hard to stop, you know, you'd say one consequence, and then I find a way around it. And almost, it wasn't really like, Oh, I'm gonna just break the rules. It was just, I just wanted to, like, try things. You know, my mom went away and she said, the one thing you cannot be here while I'm gone stay with your dad. I didn't like that, and she would lock the house up like Fort Knox. There was no way in. I mean, it was bull. She wouldn't give me the key, and that pissed me off. So before she left, I went through this elaborate ruse with friends, and I pushed a screen out of the second floor window so that and I left it unlocked. And after she left, we took a ladder, brought over to the house in someone else's truck, propped it up. My friend Jimmy crawled through the window, and then we had people over. It was supposed to just be 20 people, but of course, what happens to a teenage party? And then the police were called, and it turned into a whole big thing. But if my mom had just she, did she find

Laura Bowman: 29:31

out? And like, Oh yeah, yeah. So what was that conversation? Like

Colette Fehr: 29:36

them yelling at me and beat me, being like, well, that's what you get for not trusting me.

Laura Bowman: 29:44

But the problem is, and I just is where I have, like, empathy for all parents, myself included, is like, you just don't know which way some of these behaviors go, right? Like, obviously you've turned out just fine, right? Like, you're an incredible adult, but you worry. Like, is this the kind of stuff that foreshadows like, this could be it like, having real problems, you know, breaking society's rules, getting into, like, a dangerous situation, right? You don't know. You don't know. And that's the Polaroid of it all. Like, what am I watching right

Colette Fehr: 30:18

now? So true. And you know what the ski this is where I think the reality of today's world comes into play too, because not that there weren't serious consequences then, I mean, I could have been raped and killed a million times over. It really some of the stuff I was doing wasn't good. And again, I was a straight A student. I didn't do drugs. I drank, but socially, never in excess. I drank more as an adult than I drank as a kid. So in a way, I wasn't really that bad, but I was definitely testing the waters. And you didn't know, in fact, a lot of my friend's parents, I think, thought I was like a wild child during that time, and might have wondered if I would turn out to be such a responsible, conscientious adult, and the stakes now feel even higher, like it feels so dangerous to let your kid roam and do and part of it is back then, we didn't have a choice. We didn't have life 360 you know, we weren't so involved in college and all of these stages. So now we know a lot, and it feels like our kids can be ruined if we're not on top of everything. That's what I think is so terrifying for people.

Laura Bowman: 31:33

It is, but also what I'm I don't know if you've heard some of this, one of those guys that I follow is talking about how, like, kids don't drink anymore, yes, and that it's not that's not like they smoke pot, but like they're numbing out, but they're not connecting. Like, drinking is a little bit different social, more social, and so like, in some ways, you had, like, it's almost a protective factor that you were so social, and then you were like, also, like, so capable in school, yeah, and, and so in some ways, you weren't as risky as you seemed, right, right? And some of the scarier things these days, it's like, the withdrawing, the isolation, the lack of like, feeling like you're viable on any front. What is

Colette Fehr: 32:18

that? I totally agree with you, Laura. And of course, because look at how great I turned out. No, I'm kidding. But like, what's that term I just learned for a kid who sits in the room all day and plays on an INCEL No, no, no, but let's talk about that briefly. But no, there's another term. It's something for a kid who's in the room all day on video games, which we know is a thing. And then let's talk about the INCEL thing for a moment, because the show adolescence came out on Netflix not long ago. Oh my gosh. And that is a real one of many, not to mention fentanyl trafficking, right? All of the big, scary things that can happen that we we really can't troubleshoot for. I mean, you can't be on top of your kid and walk them like a dog on a leash, but adolescence, and I don't want to give any spoilers, but shows this kid. It's a four part show that was shot in continuous form. It's so powerful. The acting is amazing, and it shows this little boy. He's Tiny, he's 13 years old. He's so vulnerable, and he's accused of killing a classmate, a female classmate, in a rage. And what we come to find is that there was some bullying going on by this girl, and he really was developing in that INCEL, that radicalized, angry INCEL mindset. And you see this kid the

Laura Bowman: 33:41

manosphere? Yes, yes. So scary red

Colette Fehr: 33:45

pill stuff and all the it's really scary that this is happening to and so many of this these kids. They're not sociopaths. They're being their brains, their fragile, spongy brains, are being inculcated with radicalized ideas that justify violence and anger, and a lot of it is coming from disconnection and technology, yeah,

Laura Bowman: 34:10

and this is, it's so good that you brought this up because I I'm not heavy handed on almost anything, as we know, large leash, large, yeah, you know, long leash, large corral. But I think the social media thing, I think we're just about ready to get this right by taking phones out of schools, not letting social kids have social media till 16. I agree. I actually think that's brilliant. I think we've really fucked with, like, a whole generation of kids brains. I agree, and I do not know where that's headed but I think we've got this is like a public health emergency. And I to, you know, to make adolescents healthier, we have to get social media into its

Colette Fehr: 34:51

proper place. I completely agree. I think it's difficult to put the toothpaste back in the tube as a society, but we have to try. And I'm wholeheartedly for the no phones in schools. I mean, I think this should be enforced more strictly than anything, because we know what it does to the forming brain, much less even our brains, right? My god, yeah, hijacks your attention span. And that's just the beginning. That's the very tip of the iceberg. But it's really almost abusive to subject kids to the kind of conditioning and the emotional experiences they have as a result of social media when they do not have the developmental capacity to handle those emotions, the rejection, the betrayal, the ostracization, the bullying. I mean, think about it. When we were young, you did not have droves of 10 year olds, nine and 10 year olds dying by suicide. That is insane and that is coming from social media, because the influence is so pervasive and so deep. Yeah,

Laura Bowman: 35:54

it's so potent coming toward you at that age. I mean, I remember, like, as a kid, even going to school when, like, friends would be mad at friends would be mad at you. Yes, but can you imagine if that was like the whole world on online, yeah, like being gassed up online, where that's all coming at you? Or

Colette Fehr: 36:13

imagine if you go, you pulled up a screen and you saw everyone's at the party and you weren't invited, not only do you find out Monday, like we did, oh, they had a sleepover and didn't include me, and they talked about you the whole time, right? Which that actually happened to me in the 70s. Yeah, that's happened to me too. Oh, and I went to school and I was like, fuck you. You're gonna regret the day that you ostracized me. But it was deep. I

Laura Bowman: 36:41

wish I had taken that approach. It took me a couple days to get

Colette Fehr: 36:44

there, but and then, of course, they apologized and blah, blah, blah, and I took that. I'm still friends with a lot of them to this day, right? It happens, but imagine that's happening and you see pictures that hits you on a much deeper level. And what if, like this boy in adolescence, what if everybody, not only are you being bullied by one girl, but what if everybody's going on social media calling you a loser, calling you names, this kid who was adorable, came to believe he was the ugliest kid in school, and that No girl would ever like him, because that's what he was told in droves on social media. So we have to find some parameters for this. And

Laura Bowman: 37:26

that's just, like, cute another a quick other thought, yeah, I don't think kids realize, and especially in that, like, tunnel vision of like, you know, early adolescence on social media, it just feels like your life is over. Obviously, that 13 year old kids life is not, you know, was just beginning, and he didn't realize that. And that's, you know, conversation I even had with my 17 year old recently where he was, like, lamenting certain things about his life, and, like, worried about certain things. And I was like, you just don't realize how much runway you have you don't realize that you're here at 17, but you have no idea where this is gonna go when you're 30. Like, do you remember that whole campaign that they ran for gay kids called the It Gets Better campaign? Yes, yes, of course, yeah. It was based on the fact that, like, a lot of like, gay kids feel like, Oh, my God, what's the point? Like, I don't even, I can't even steal life for myself. So these older people who had, like, you know, who are gay, like, did these little voice to camera things where it was like, Look, it gets better. And let me tell you about my life. And I think that kids in these stages lack vision, yeah, I mean, and this is where we can serve a little bit as their prefrontal cortex bring them some perspective. And I gave my son, like, a good bit of perspective. I was like, let me just tell you what this looks like 10 years from now. I love 10 years from now. And you know what he said? He's like, he's like, Thank you, because he couldn't come up with that.

Colette Fehr: 38:59

Yeah. You know, that really helps me as I'm thinking about this, because I see I'm seeing my daughters go through anxiety about getting jobs and careers and this poor generation. I mean, even Gen X, I was reading an article yesterday that like, we're sort of, we've sort of gotten screwed by the current market economy and the dire state of the world in our retirement. But these kids are in this generation where jobs are drying up. It's more expensive than ever. You know, unless you're the elite coming out of these Ivy League schools or you had a career path from birth, it's, it's, there's a lot of

Laura Bowman: 39:37

super savvy with your digital video, you know, media issues, yeah, some of these kids are gonna Right. And,

Colette Fehr: 39:43

you know, I didn't figure out what I wanted to do until my mid 30s, and I tried lots of careers and lots of things. And, you know, I try to tell my kids, but I'm gonna circle back to this, like it's okay, it's okay not to know. You don't have to have your life figured out. Out in one second. You know, it's okay to try something and it's not the thing. I think there's so much fear of making mistakes with these kids, and maybe that's another polar opposite of how it used to be. We messed up a lot. I mean, I did have some consequences. I got kicked out of a school like, some stuff happened that was not ideal for me. Yeah, I mean, I learned

Laura Bowman: 40:27

the college situation, like kids getting into college, it's so competitive right now awful. Like my, like, my 17 year old again, like trying to get this SAT score that's like, astronomical, and you're like, Laura, I got like, I don't know what you got on your SAT, but you're like, I got into every college I applied for back in the day, right? I do. And so it's like the noose is tightening on these kids. I agree every angle.

Colette Fehr: 40:50

And I took the SAT once, like hung over and didn't have and I was like, it's good enough for wherever I want to go. Like the stress on these kids at a young age, it's not healthy. So okay, let's like summarize this with some takeaways, and also remember to go to insights from the couch.org because we're going to have a little worksheet of some of these top line points that can help you if you're in this phase of life with your kids. But I think one of the major takeaways is that connection is your greatest influence. Build a good relationship with your kid. Listen, ask questions, engage, be present, because if you have a strong connection, they're going to come to you, and then you're going to be able to troubleshoot for the things that really matter, like when it has to do with health or safety,

Laura Bowman: 41:41

I totally agree. Stay collaborative. If you're teaching and preaching, you are just, like, on the wrong track. I mean, and even, like, if you've really messed this up, like, try to reset by just spending some time doing something enjoyable with your kids. Like, yes, especially if younger kids just see if you can, like, get on their level. I have a client who started playing Pokemon Go with their teenage son, and it's been like so bonding. That's awesome. And get out of that power struggle and get out of that teaching mode, because it'll pay dividends, because they will come to

Colette Fehr: 42:14

you later agreed, and then use discernment pick your battles. Really,

Laura Bowman: 42:21

everything needs an antibiotic, right, right? And not

Colette Fehr: 42:24

everything needs rigid rules and control, yeah, right. It doesn't all have to go the way you want it to. But when it comes to safety, health or your core values, if you're afraid that your kid is at risk, that's when you need to intervene. And sometimes we do need to say no, and you may not understand why. I might try to explain to you, but you might not understand or agree, and sometimes I'm the parent and I have to intercede for reasons you don't yet understand. But for other things, let kids have that big corral and that long leash, and let them make some mistakes and help them to learn to develop their own judgment by asking questions and guiding them to the place where they can figure it out for themselves. Yeah,

Laura Bowman: 43:10

it's their life at the end of the day, you are a guide. You are a Sherpa. It is not your second shot at life your kids, right?

Colette Fehr: 43:19

It's not about you. It's not about you. And you know, that's a great point to end on, Laura, is that adolescence is as much for a child to separate from the parent as a parent to start to separate from the child. Your child is not a mini you. I actually hate that whole thing where parents there's this whole thing about parents living vicariously through their children that also didn't exist in previous generations the way it does today. Your children are independent people, and if your whole identity is wrapped up in your kid and their achievements, you need to seriously check yourself.

Laura Bowman: 43:55

Yeah, and, and just on that note too, is like when you start that, like, because kids can get really aggravating and difficult towards the end, like, in the 17, 1819, year old phase, it can, it can get annoying around here. I think I've mentioned it on the podcast before, but that is the natural pulling away of, like, I've had enough of this dynamic. I'm ready to be my own person. I'm not quite there, but it's like, it's like, that kid is being born into the world. It's like, labor, yeah? But, you know, at this phase and, and really, it's our job to be able to let them go when they're ready. Yep,

Colette Fehr: 44:33

you're the OB, deliver the baby into the world. Yeah, right, deliver your teenager. You're ushering them into the world. You're not going along for the ride,

Laura Bowman: 44:43

and you're staying steady like the horse whisperer. If they come back, you're there, yeah? And they can, and if you're there, they can move back and forth. You're the secure base exactly in and out of it, yeah? But you're not clinging, right? And one,

Colette Fehr: 44:57

I'm gonna Google that scene, but one final. Point again that we want to make is regulate your emotions. Learn to regulate your emotions. Your kids learn by what you model. Help them learn to regulate theirs, their future relationships, well, thank you, because I see the consequence. I know you do too, but my God and couples therapy, that's all I see. Lack of ability to regulate emotions and handle conflict. So help kids with that. There are real things we need to be doing as parents, and it's not get your kid into the apex college, because, guess what, none of that shit really matters that much anymore. Your kid's gonna be successful if they're gonna be successful for other reasons, not because they have like, an Ivy League or whatever. Meanwhile, those schools are all imploding. Okay, on that note, another show, another show. Yes, why? The Ivy League is now irrelevant. So we, again, we are going to have a download on the website that pertains to this episode, insights from the couch.org. We are so grateful to all of you for listening. We hope you found value in this, and if you did, please take a second to go on Apple podcasts and give us a five star review, or whatever stars you think we deserve. Leave a comment that helps our podcast get into the hands of many more people who might benefit from this advice. And

Laura Bowman: 46:17

yeah. And final note, like we could talk about this all day. And if there's a part that you want us to zoom in on on this conversation, drop us a line. If you want us to say more. I know we could go deep on any one of these things in adolescence. Yeah,

Colette Fehr: 46:32

if you have questions, yeah, you can message us through our website or send us an email to info at insights from the couch.org, thank you so much for being here, and we'll be back next week with another great episode and more insights from our couch.

Unknown: 46:48

Bye, guys. You.