Insights from the Couch - Mental Health at Midlife

Ep.46: The People-Pleasing Trap: Why It’s Holding You Back and How to Stop

• Colette Fehr, Laura Bowman • Season 4 • Episode 46

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Do you find yourself saying “yes” when you really want to say “no”? Do you feel responsible for keeping the peace, even at your own expense? If any of that sounds familiar, this episode is for you. From childhood conditioning and gender expectations to how this behavior shows up in our adult relationships—romantic, professional, and personal—we’re talking about it all.

In this episode, we get real about our own struggles and growth around people pleasing. We explore the line between kindness and self-abandonment, how saying “no” can actually strengthen relationships, and the subtle (and not-so-subtle) ways we’ve learned to reclaim our voices. If you’ve ever wrestled with resentment, vagueness, or fear of being “the bad guy,” you’re not alone—and there’s a way out. Tune in as we share stories, insights, and actionable strategies for building healthier boundaries without losing your sense of connection.

 

Episode Highlights:

[0:00] - Why people pleasing hits so close to home for both of us.
[1:14] - The difference between being genuinely kind vs. being "nice" to your own detriment.
[3:49] - Laura's story: Growing up flanked by strong personalities and learning to placate.
[6:46] - How family patterns condition our conflict tolerance in adulthood.
[8:32] - Colette’s evolution in romantic relationships and the fear of losing love.
[10:11] - Assertiveness is a muscle: why it takes time and practice to break the habit.
[11:02] - People pleasing ≠ being confident and kind. It often leads to resentment.
[12:51] - Key signs of people pleasing from Psychology Today’s checklist.
[13:31] - Natural boundaries: how structure and routine can minimize people pleasing.
[15:25] - Boundaries at work: why therapy helped us develop clear limits.
[17:21] - Practicing assertiveness in safe relationships and why that matters.
[22:08] - The real cost of people pleasing on your mental and emotional health.
[23:17] - Gabor Maté and the connection between chronic niceness and physical illness.
[26:06] - Practical tips: writing out your thoughts, using scripts, and buying time.
[30:38] - Parenting and people pleasing: where we still struggle (and how we’re working on it).
[33:59] - The importance of learning to self-define, and why assertiveness isn’t aggressiveness.
[34:33] - The Giving Tree metaphor and recognizing when you’ve become the stump.
[36:05] - Final tips: Practice, write it out, externalize, and invest in safe relationships.
[37:12] - Where to take the “Are You a People Pleaser?” test and how to connect with us.

 

Resources:

Make sure to visit the “Resources” page on our website www.insightsfromthecouch.org to download the worksheet and take ways that accompany each episode. This is hugely important as we are now creating a download that is unique to each episode and working hard to create an email list to support our programming offerings moving forward.

Colette Fehr:

Laura, welcome back to another episode of insights from the couch. We're tackling people pleasing today. This is a big one. Laura and I both relate, and maybe you can too. Are you a people pleaser, a reformed people pleaser, or somebody who's trying to stop people pleasing, we're going to get into it all and some tips for you on what you can do to break free, because it can really destroy your life. Welcome back, everyone, and thanks for listening. I'm here with Laura again this morning, and we can't wait to dig in. Yeah, people

Laura Bowman:

pleasing, I like I have such an ick relationship with that. And these personality traits that, on one hand, are really nice to have, like agreeableness and likability and being easy going, these are, Oh, you're so nice. I've gotten this kind of feedback my whole life, and I now they're like my least favorite compliments of all time. Like, I just, I'm like, oh god, that's the part of me you like, like, that's the part of me I'm desperately trying to shake off because it's very much in me. Well,

Colette Fehr:

let's face it, women have always been valued and conditioned to be nice. In fact, there was a study not long ago that said the two attributes this will come as zero surprise to anyone listening, but the two attributes that women are most valued for are their looks and their niceness. Let's all throw up in unison. Yeah. So I think I've always been told I'm warm and friendly, which I think is true, and that's very different from Nice. Yeah, there's a big difference between being kind, genuinely kind, and niceness. And there's a plague that I talk about in my book that I call good girl. Itis where, you know, we don't want to rock the boat and and this sort of niceness that we're valued for can come at our own expense, and it's particularly insidious, because it's not really about being kind to other people. It's really about avoiding the discomfort you feel inside when you have to say no, make someone upset or have a moment of conflict. Yes,

Laura Bowman:

that is exactly it. It's it's the idea that you're going to get smiled down in like the Drama Triangle, unless and until you're willing to step into being the bad guy or being perceived as the bad guy, because it's the only way out. And that is the worst feeling for some people. It certainly is a really uncomfortable feeling for me, I do not like being the bad guy. Yeah, I

Colette Fehr:

mean, I think you have to risk being seen potentially as the bad guy. Doesn't mean you always will be, but somebody might not like what you have to say, or the fact that you're saying no or you're disagreeing, you know? Okay, so let's just break this down for a minute. The classic example is a bunch of women are going out to lunch, and everyone's like, what do you feel like? Oh, I don't care. What do you feel like? Well, I don't care either. You pick no, you pick no, you pick Oh, I don't care. Everyone's trying to, like, do backwards somersaults to be so easy peasy, where I'm like, You know what? I want, sushi. Let's go. If no one else is going to throw in an opinion, I'll happily say, I mean, I do also say sometimes I don't care. But the point is, say you don't care if you really don't care. But it's also okay to have an opinion. Trust that people will say, you know, I don't really feel like sushi today because I just had it five times this week. Can we go somewhere else?

Laura Bowman:

Yep. So like having a having your own opinion, saying no being disagreeable, or being perceived as disagreeable, like really running against the grain of what everybody else wants. Like, that's just hard. I mean, I I'll just speak for myself, like I grew up, um, flanked by two very, very strong personalities, very alpha, my mother and my brother were just strong and, like, competing against each other for, like, what was the way things were going to go? And I was like, the person in the middle who would be like, you know, pulled from side to side. And I learned really early that, like, my power in my family was to sort of flatten myself out and, like, work surreptitiously in order to placate these strong personalities and mostly hid in my room like mostly lived in my head and in my room. So

Colette Fehr:

what was the reward of pancaking and placating these personalities

Laura Bowman:

that they were never for? Particularly happy with one another, but they were happy with me, and I could, like, move them or calm them in order to have the whole situation. And I'm probably overrating my power. If they were listening to this, they'd probably be like, Oh, shut up, Laura, but like, No, I think that I was, my perception was that my role made like it was like I was like a lubrication for this difficult system, and that was my role,

Colette Fehr:

right? And then the reward, though, for you is by moving them or calming them or earning their favor. Yeah, right, appeasement, then you feel better inside. Things are less tense, there's peace, and you feel more comfortable,

Laura Bowman:

yes. And I'm like, Okay, can I go now? Can I go now? And I'm going to go to my room, and that's where I can kind of really be alone with my own thoughts, because this is really hectic, and that pattern, you know, is something I've had to shake my whole life and not recreate in my own family, yeah, and to this day, like it's very hard for me to not be in that role with my mother. And I've become more and more direct over the years, far more direct, but I still people pleasing still shows up for me in like, vagueness, like, I'll I know what I want. I know how long I want the Christmas break to be. I know how long I want the vacate, the visit to be. But I'm like, um, let's, well, let's figure it out. Let's, uh, let's talk about it later. Let's like, I punt, kick the can. I kick the can. That's people pleasing for me in this day and age, right?

Colette Fehr:

And then that comes from being conditioned. If you have these two personalities that are so chaotic and they can get antagonistic with each other, that comes from the conditioning of okay, kicking the can and avoiding it avoids all that unpleasantness that will surely ensue. Yes, whereas for me, as I reflect on what you're saying in my family, everyone had very strong opinions and expressed them, and people weren't threatened by it. It didn't lead to problems. So we'd all want something different for dinner, and we'd just all eat something different for dinner, but everyone would say it, you know, it just was a culture of a lot of permission to have opinions, to debate things, without it leading to a problem in the relationship or leading to any kind of animosity. So I grew up feeling very free and comfortable to state my opinion. However, in romantic relationships, I would still state my opinion, but if I sensed that it would jeopardize the relationship by causing a fight, or I might lose someone's love and approval because I pushed back on something they cared about, then I would silence myself, and I did not want conflict with a romantic partner or with close friends. I had no problem with conflict in my family, pushing back with my parents, anyone like that, or even really with strangers. I'm pretty like, willing to go there and your Your face tells me you've seen that in action.

Laura Bowman:

But I'm exactly the opposite. Like, yeah, I am most of able to express myself with close others and like strangers is where I will drop the rope so fast because I just want to get away from

Colette Fehr:

it. Yeah. I mean, I don't struggle to express my opinion in close relationships or push back when it feels safe, yeah, when I sense that I could lose or imperil a relationship, whether it's true or not, you know, that's the fear of conflict. I talk about my book, and I'm always talking about in couples therapy, that's the place that it's still hurt for me. However, one of the reasons I wanted to do this episode so much, and I know you too, is that I've evolved so much in this area, and I'm someone who no one probably would have ever described if you only knew me from the outside as a people pleaser, but again, in there that desire to like, Oh, let me just keep my partner happy so you don't ever want to leave me or, you know, abandon or reject me was in there really strongly, and it's a muscle that gets conditioned being more assertive. So I think there are some things we can give to you guys listening that may help you to break free of people pleasing. Because ultimately, again, the cost of this is self abandonment. You are abandoning yourself to keep the peace, and it doesn't do you or that other person any favors. Really, as adults, we're supposed to be differentiated, meaning we have our own identity, and we can say, hey, you know what? That's a great suggestion, but I'd really rather go have pizza. Does that work? For you. Yeah, we can be kind and tactful while we're still clear, direct and true to ourselves

Laura Bowman:

absolutely and I this is an area that I've gotten so much better in over the years as well I'm still like in process with with certain pieces of it being direct with my needs right away up front, like I said, I kick the can sometimes. Yep, that's still something I'm getting better at, but it's you have to pendulate into it. It is not it. You have to, like, start in the most innocuous area and build the muscle. It is not like, you're not going to just like, face plant into this curve, especially if this is an area where you have lots of people pleasing parts where you can't say no, right, where you're like, you don't know how to, like, say a strong opinion. You mean, there it, there's, this is obviously a huge continuum, yeah, and,

Colette Fehr:

you know, depending on the situation, maybe there, there are always times when it doesn't make any sense to give your opinion. You know, you can be confident in your opinion, and you don't have to say it out loud. It's not about, you know, walking around like swinging your dick around. This is, yeah, this is not the point of this. No, the point of this is having good boundaries, so you don't let people trample all over you. The point of this is taking care of yourself so that you preserve your energy, you protect your mental health. And one of the biggest features I see as a therapist and personally with friends and loved ones, one of the biggest problems with people pleasing is that people pleasers end up miserable and stuck in resentment. And resentment is really a sign that you're angry at yourself, but you're misplacing it toward another. If you resent someone else, it means you haven't drawn a boundary or said no to behaviors that you should have, and you failed to show up for yourself. So before we get into the solutions, I just wanted to read a couple things. And I think we should, we should link to this on our website, insights from the couch.org, so if you guys want to take the full Are you a people pleaser test? We'll have that in there. I want to read a couple of the the behaviors they highlight here in Psychology Today, okay, I agree with others just to keep the peace. I'm afraid to say no. I rarely share my opinions because I don't want to upset anyone. I don't like to make decisions if it will make other people unhappy. I often take on responsibilities that are not mine. I make compromises for other people, huh? I tend to go with the flow, even if it makes me uneasy. Just to name a few, yeah,

Laura Bowman:

yep. As you're reading them, though, I'm thinking, you know, one of the things that has helped me over the years is, like building my own life that has, like, naturally occurring boundaries, you know, so I'm less I'm less available for people pleasing, or to be like in other people's on other people's agreeable. I don't know, clouds like, it's like, I go to work, I work out. This is my time. I work out. This is the time I go to bed, like my life is a little bit of a buffer between my my availability to be a tool for other people, yeah,

Colette Fehr:

but that's not not being a people pleaser. That's just not being available for it, exactly,

Laura Bowman:

but that's like that has been a strategy, is what I'm saying. This is, like my modern day strategy, like I'm going to my room and locking the door. I've had to have natural boundaries around myself because of how permeable I sometimes feel. So

Colette Fehr:

what's helped me that makes sense to me, Laura, and what's helped me the most is being a therapist, because I realized early on, you know, I'm now what, 12 years into my private practice and my brief, limited career before this in sales, where you're just agreeable all over the place, because your job is to make your clients happy, and that's Yeah money, and that strategy doesn't work. As a therapist, I love my clients, I care about them, and I try to be warm and accessible, which is my genuine self. But I learned early on that I had to have really strict boundaries, or I was going to get dragged all over the place, not to mention honoring the law and ethics and clients don't understand, you know, all the rules behind the scenes that sound crazy to clients, where they're like, I don't care if the world knows you're my therapist, right, but I have to protect that. They want to email you stuff, and I can't allow that, because it has to go on the record. And some of this stuff, you know, charging, charging no show sessions, I had to get good at sitting. Through discomfort, fear of losing clients, and just like you're saying with conditioning the muscle as you do it, and you know what, sometimes the worst does happen. Sometimes somebody freaks out and they're upset with you, but the more you do it, the more you just say, okay, it is what it is, and I'm doing the right thing, and I'm expressing it clearly and kindly, and I'm going to let what happens happens. I find

Laura Bowman:

that like that work is the one of the first places where people start to, like, get can get really good boundaries, in fact, like work situations, I I've watched it with a bunch of clients where they don't quite have it down in their personal life, but they start to master it in their work lives, and then as they like feel comfortable, it starts to progress to their personal life.

Colette Fehr:

I totally agree. I think that's what happened to a degree for both of us. Yeah, you know, the other thing that helps is practicing it in a relationship that's more secure. So for me, my relationship with Steve, my husband, has been very secure in that way that I don't fear losing his love for pushing back, whereas in my first marriage, there was such a bad response to my emotions around things my ex husband cared about that I felt like if I didn't stay that agreeable, smiling, little, sparkling blonde, he wanted that I would be punished by losing love and I would compromise myself. So I think being in something healthy is great if you don't have a relationship with a partner like that, pick the relationship that you feel the most comfortable and confident and practice there. And one thing that helps me, that I used to do with clients around the no show fee that you can use for these contacts is to name the fear and discomfort. Hey, you know this is not super easy for me to do these things. I know I have to, but it's hard for me to push back or to say no or to charge you for a missed session, even though you signed eight papers knowing that that would happen, and I warned you last time. Yeah, let people know, because when you date name, your discomfort, it begins to dissipate a little.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, that's a great piece of advice. And I would also echo that having great relationships, you know, I think our relationship has helped me a lot. Like having being friends with you and you are so clear about what you need and what it is you can do and can't do, and it makes it much safer for me to say what I can and can't do. No, I'm so glad. No, it has

Colette Fehr:

been so helpful. Oh, that makes me so happy. And I feel like we do do that with each other, yeah,

Laura Bowman:

and it's okay, right? Like, do you ever like, you can say to me, like, I can't make it this afternoon, or, like, we can't I gotta reschedule this. And it's, it's fine, right? There's no like, like, we work with each other and we respect each other's time in our space. And there's no subtext of like, well, well, fuck you. Know, never, never. You had to, like, do this for me, and like, you didn't, really, you didn't show up for me. Like, there's none of that. It's so like accepting. And I hope that our listeners have at least one of those relationships in their lives. I have a couple good ones

Colette Fehr:

me too, and you're right, the safety that comes from knowing so it's bi directional, what you're describing, and that's a big part of why it works. I mean, I'm we're arguing that you have to do it, even when people aren't cool about it, but when you have it, like we do, where you're right, we can, first of all, I trust you that I don't, because the relationship's secure. I don't ever feel like you're blowing me off or you wouldn't be there for me, you know. So when you tell me your boundaries, I respect them anyway, but I know that you're my true friend. So it's easy to see that there's it's easy to believe the best always, and what you might say yes or no to now, I think this is very funny coming after yesterday, when I basically pulled you into booking a spontaneous trip to Nantucket and did not let you say, No,

Laura Bowman:

you know what? Though, like, I need you for that. Because I would have sat and stared at it, and then I would have done the vagueness thing. I'd have been like, well, let's see, like I want to, but I don't really, I don't know, and then it would never happen. And that's how I become like, very often, snagged in my own bullshit is when I just don't like state what I need clearly or the but in that situation, I needed a

Colette Fehr:

push. Yeah, and you know what? I trust I'm kind of joking, because if you couldn't do it or didn't want to, you would have said, so yeah,

Laura Bowman:

no, that's a long standing thing that we've wanted to do. So, yeah, yeah.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, we're going on a little podcast retreat to Nantucket this coming September, and it's going to be while the neighborhood project, the Nantucket project, we did the neighborhood project. Yes, we've been shocking the Nantucket project for, I don't know, a decade, and planning to go to Nantucket together, one of our favorite places. So it's going to be so fun. And basically, we were sitting there working on the podcast and our upcoming episodes for you guys, and it came up, and I was like, let this is the year. Let's go. Let's just do it. And so we looked at a hotel that I stayed at before, when I went a while ago with my husband, and it was available, and we looked at plane tickets, and I'm like, let's just book it and we're doing it. Yeah, yeah. And it was so fun, and I'm so excited. But I think it is another example of something where, if you had said no, even though I really wanted to go, I would have respected it, and I believe you would have felt comfortable to do that, and

Laura Bowman:

I would have like, yeah. I mean, I think where I get snagged is when I know the answer that I want to express, but I get vague. And that is that wasn't the feeling I've wanted to do this forever. So that was a clear yes, and I need that

Colette Fehr:

push, yeah. You just needed me to be like, we're doing it right now.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, we're gonna do it now.

Colette Fehr:

I know I think this stuff is hard, but what we're trying to tell you guys is just start small if this is challenging for you, because people pleasing ultimately doesn't make you happy. And again, it's not really about being nice. It's really about avoiding discomfort. And it's one of those things that the more you push back a little and learn to tolerate a little discomfort, and that the worst doesn't happen, or that the worst happens and you're still standing the easier it becomes and then the more you feel clean in your relationships, the more confidence you build, the healthier and happier you'll be.

Laura Bowman:

And I think Gabor Mate writes about this in his book, but he talks about how like agreeableness and people pleasing like literally kills you, and that they have this. This is like, I don't know how scientific this is, but he writes about it in the book, that people who end up getting diagnosed with like ALS, they'll go in to do a consult, like a neurological consult, and the nurse will come out and say, like, I don't think they have ALS. They're not nice enough that there's this short hand in that diagnostic world that patients, and this, like I said, is very unscientific, who get als ultimately are like the most highly agreeable people. So they don't know nice, they're too nice, they're too nice, and they like, are not bound, like they're just allow, they allow the world to, and I don't know what, and that's for a lot of illnesses where people do not express themselves, and all of this energy gets just trapped inside the body.

Colette Fehr:

I 100% believe that it's going to manifest itself in some way in the body, because you're disowning, disowning, disowning, disowning, build resentment, and it builds into a whole kind of victim thing, where you're mad at the world, but you really only have yourself to blame. And I guess the bottom line is, part of being an adult is self defining and letting people know where you begin and end, and you can do it kindly. I think this is a big piece that I talk about a lot on just about every platform. The more you use the muscle, the easier it gets, and the more you see that you can be clear and direct and kind at the same time. So you can say to someone, oh, you know, I wish I could help with that, but I can't. I'm swamped right now. You don't have to give an excuse, but there's nothing wrong with that. Or, you know, I'd love to help, but I'm not available. Just a simple, right, simple, clear. It's so funny to me too, when people say, Oh, as a therapist, you must have people constantly, like all your friends, must come to you for everything, and they don't. If someone really has a struggle, they may turn to me, but I'm not available. 24/7, for free advice. I mean, I'd never sleep. Same thing with clients, right? If we don't have boundaries as therapists, we wouldn't be able to protect our energy for the therapy room. I could be emailing, texting, on phone calls with clients all day and night, and so could you, yeah, yeah. So it's really, it's your health. But it's also, it's just, it's your emotional and physical health, and it is you don't have to be mean. I think that's what people think like that they they'll or underdeveloped people will get mean. That's the only time they can say that about is when they're angry. And what I do that a lot. Yes, me too, and I've experienced that a lot from other people. What I'm saying is take some time. And this is when I want to get into a little bit of tips. If you're struggling with something, write it out first, take some time to prepare. Have some empathy for the other person's position. Work through all of that, write it down, and then have some empathy from the outside for your position. Yeah, you know, imagine somebody in your life that you love dearly, maybe even your child if you have children, because you'd probably want your child to be able to say no to you and not feel guilty and think about yourself that way. Externalize a

Laura Bowman:

little, you know, that I love that tip, yeah, I think

Colette Fehr:

it really helps and prepare your answer. I mean, I used to write this stuff out with the assertiveness formula, you know, when you I feel because yes, yes, I can or can't. And that stuff can really help. And

Laura Bowman:

another thing, because I have, like, that reflexive agreeableness, like this is like agreeableness is almost like a defensive strategy for me, like I'm gonna agree, I'm gonna agree because I just want to get through. I want to get sometimes I want to get away from people. So I think sometimes agreeing is the quickest way to get through this is just my own pathology, right? And and so sometimes, like, the agreeableness is coming out of my mouth before my brain has time to, like, even think it through, yeah. And what I've had to do is buy myself time where I'm like, can I get that? Can I get back to you? Like, I gotta look at my schedule. I'm not sure what's going on. Let me circle back because I can't in the moment. I haven't even been able to check in with me because I usually have to get a loan for that. Like, I don't even know my answer yet, yes. So if you find yourself doing what I do, like make sure you just buy yourself some time. I

Colette Fehr:

love that tip. I think that's really, really helpful, because I'm thinking about social situations where someone throws something out and you're right before you even know it, you're saying yes, and you may not amazing Yeah, and I you don't want to not I don't want to not honor my word, and like you're saying, you might not know whether it works for you or not. So get in the habit of slowing that whole roll down and telling people, though, thanks for the offer. Let me look at my schedule and or let me think about it and get back to you, right? And you know, I, what I have found is that most of the time when you say no or you can't do something, or you get better at not people pleasing, people are actually pretty conciliatory and respect it. Yes, it's really not so bad. It's the anticipation of all of this yuck that often doesn't come.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, yeah, I agree. And as you sit down, like what I was talking about with our relationship, as you say no, within relationships, it gives the other person permission to have their No, yeah, yeah. And so I actually reject the idea that it makes relationships weaker. I think it makes relationships, oh, far safer and stronger.

Colette Fehr:

Oh, I agree, it does. I think it's just our perception. And, you know, there are those people in our lives, and this is how most people have come by this, that they've had someone close who isn't great about it, yeah, and does make it feel as though the relationship is threatened and or if you've ever been rewarded like you were describing in your childhood, role for being the agreeable one, being the one who makes people happy. You know, I look at my father and everybody says how nice my dad is, and it's true, and yet it's got a pathological component he has, in many ways, become The Giving Tree, sacrificed himself way too much to take care of others. And yeah, you know, it's not totally altruistic. He thinks it is. The conscious brain thinks it is. But the secondary gain, which is really the primary reward is feeling good, the good feeling you have when you make somebody else happy. Of course, we want to take care of other people to a degree, and be helpers. There's a positive quality to that, but if it's coming at the expense of your essential self, it's too far. Are, and that's when I think it's worth looking in the mirror and saying, Okay, how can I self define a little more? How could I protect myself, my health, my peace? Can I just flex this muscle a little and show myself I can do it? I

Laura Bowman:

love that self define a little more. Yeah, I love that, I love that, I love that. Now tell me, as I was thinking, as you're talking about your dad, do you have any more complicated issues, not people pleasing your kids?

Colette Fehr:

Wait, do I have? Yeah, like,

Laura Bowman:

do you run into any, like, stickiness, not like doing people pleasing? Yeah, actually,

Colette Fehr:

that's and I'm surprising that I haven't said this sooner. That's probably the place that I've been the worst. Yeah, and now I've pushed back quite a bit, and one of the things that's helped is saying this very saying this very explicitly to my girls. You know, I think I have been too much of an enabler. I think I've been too much of a coddler in certain ways. I think I had divorce guilt, yeah, for a long time, and I think that was part of it for my dad too, you know. And we're not doing our kids any favors. So my daughters get it. One of them's a little better about accepting my pushback. The other will really push and push and push and push and push. And you know, that's another thing we haven't mentioned, as I'm kind of rambling here, some people will, will really keep pushing. They won't accept your no and that's tough.

Laura Bowman:

That's really tough. I have a couple places in my life where that occurs, and it's really hard on me, and it pisses me off. Yeah, it feels really unfair.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, I agree. I feel that way too. I have, I can think of two places in my life I have that and I feel that same way. It's like, Shut the up. I said, No,

Laura Bowman:

kind of like, How dare you, like, I wouldn't ask this of you, or I wouldn't put this crap on you, yeah,

Colette Fehr:

or just people want their own agenda, and they're going to get needling. Now I will say I think I was that person who would like keep going, Oh, come on, but what about this? Or what about that? Or, and I've tried to get better about that now, and accepting someone's no when they say no, because I know the value of it and the importance of it, and I know what it's like to be on the other side. I think it's really important to respect that. And you know, Laura, to your point about agreeableness. I mean, I don't think there are many people who would probably describe me as, like, easy going, fun loving, but probably not easy going, because I'm intense, and I have my things that I don't like, and I'm vocal about it, but there are a lot of things I actually am easygoing about. I just don't care, and I'm happy to be like, okay, whatever. It's not that you never do that. It's just if I say, You know what, I don't care you pick. Then you can trust that I mean that, yes,

Laura Bowman:

that it's not just you push stuff

Colette Fehr:

right, right? If you say, hey, like, whenever we meet for like, food, you'll be like, I don't feel like that. Or I'm like, No. Or I'll be like, I don't care you pick. And then I really mean that I don't care if I cared or I had a craving or an opinion, I would tell you

Laura Bowman:

I don't have any problem having my own opinions. That's one thing that's like, really clear to me,

Colette Fehr:

right? But I think for a lot of people, the unconscious, automatic idea, especially in a group, especially for women, because we're still thought of, if a woman goes after what she wants, there's still all of this. She's a bitch. She's aggressive. And assertiveness is not aggressiveness. It's just being clear and direct but still being diplomatic at the same time. Yeah, so yes, these muscles, yeah,

Laura Bowman:

it's a great thing to get good at. I think your life gets cleaned up pretty nicely when this is an area you get good at, yes and and I've just watched clients who are strong in people pleasing and agreeableness and all of this, they get just loaded down like a desert camel with, like, all kinds of baggage. Yes, and they like, just plod through life carrying things that do not belong to them. Yes, and it's, it's heartbreaking to watch,

Colette Fehr:

or you become the shell Silverstein giving tree. You become the stump, which, if you have not read that book, or if you have read it again, it is such a good book, you know, the tree gives and gives and gives to this little boy until it has absolutely nothing left, and still the boy is asking for more. You are going to have those people in your life who don't care. They don't have a con. Anxious about it. They're narcissistic, they're selfish, whatever the case may be, but it is up to you. It is not up to other people. You can't rely on other people to make this easier for you. So let's review the tips again before we wrap up here that first start practicing on people is easier with pick your most accepting friend, let that or your spouse, your partner, your mother or father, if you have a close relationship with them, and let that person know. Hey, I'm really working on this. Can I practice with you? Laugh about it right? Lighten it up, but get that muscle going. Just do a couple bicep curls

Laura Bowman:

and write about it if you don't know how you feel, which I think a lot of people who are high in people pleasing aren't connected to self, right? So spend some time going how to get your feelings. Wheel out. How do I really feel about this? What do I really think about this? Write it out. Rehearse, yeah, and then distill it down into something that's like, warm and that the other person can hear, but really does state your true feeling, right,

Colette Fehr:

warm and firm. And your tip, which I absolutely love, is buy yourself some time in the moment. Get in the habit of saying, oh, you know, I'll get back to you. I need to think about that so that you do have time to process. Yep, and what I said about externalizing practice putting your situation into, like, the shoes of your child or someone you really care about, who you would want to be able to honor themselves and say no, and that'll give you some empathy for yourself as you're doing this. Yeah. And

Laura Bowman:

finally, like, cultivate the relationships where you have safety and you're allowed to say no, and there's reciprocity and it and it feels really like good and safe, like we don't. You don't need to bog yourself down in relationships where people are pushing on you all of the time, exactly.

Colette Fehr:

Really spend your time investing in the ones that are safe enough to say no, or I don't want to, or my opinion, is different from yours, like us,

Unknown:

yes,

Colette Fehr:

and if you guys want to take the are you a people pleaser test from Psychology Today, go to our website, insights from the couch.org. And you can download it there, and please leave us some comments. Send us an email with your questions. We would love to hear from you. We're grateful to you all for listening. Oh, and don't forget to write us a review if you haven't already. That would be so helpful. And we're so glad you listened to another episode of insights from the couch. We hope you got some good insights from

Laura Bowman:

our couch. I'll see you next time bye, guys bye. You.