Insights from the Couch - Real Talk for Women at Midlife

Ep.59: Zero Fucks: 10 Things to Stop Caring About at Midlife

• Colette Fehr, Laura Bowman • Season 5 • Episode 59

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Ready to reclaim your energy, sanity, and self-worth? In this episode, we’re diving into the unapologetic, liberating mindset of giving zero fucks—specifically, the 10 things we’ve learned to stop caring about at midlife. From good girl conditioning to comparison culture, we unpack the beliefs and behaviors that no longer serve us and explore what it means to live more freely, authentically, and powerfully in this season of life.

 

Episode Highlights:

[0:03] – Reclaiming your time and energy with a zero-fucks midlife mindset
 [0:40] – Why being nice instead of honest keeps us stuck
 [4:25] – Letting go of comparison and honoring your own path
 [7:04] – Releasing outdated visions of what life "should" look like
 [11:52] – Caring less about what others think—spotlight effect and all
 [16:40] – Ditching the scale: body image, aging, and radical acceptance
 [21:55] – No more default caretaker role—how to share the labor
 [26:04] – Redefining beauty: aging with grace, or not
 [30:49] – Hustling for approval: letting go of external validation
 [36:23] – Playing small to keep others comfortable? Not anymore
 [41:16] – Letting go of expectations for other people’s lives

 

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Colette Fehr:

All right, today we're going to be talking about zero fucks, 10 Things to stop caring about at midlife. This is all about reclaiming your time, your energy, your sanity, and I'm so excited to get into this with you guys, because Laura and I had a lot of fun and some great discussions as we prepared for this episode and realized we were on the same page in many ways, but what we don't care about anymore, now that we're at midlife, that we want to share with you, and as always, we can't wait to hear your feedback too. So join our chat at insights from the couch.org, Laura, let's get right into it with number

Laura Bowman:

one, let's go being nice instead of honest. How does that one hit you? I

Colette Fehr:

mean, I think this is a lifelong thing, right? Good girl conditioning. I call it in my book and in life, good girl itis like it's an infection that women have for too long, been valued for being kind and sweet and nurturing. And I'm not saying there isn't room for that, but often it comes at our own expense, and it's suffocating.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, I mean, I definitely have suffered with this in my day for sure. Like, I love the Gone Girl passage on cool girl, and cool girl is just like, down for anything, and she flattens herself out and sands off the edges to make herself so palatable to whoever she's around. And for somebody like me, where I talk about I have, like, that reflexive sort of agreeableness that I've talked about in other episodes, like getting out of that reflexive, let me just be nice. Let me keep it an emotional 72 degrees at all times. Has been a huge shift over the years to getting a lot more honest, a lot more in the moment, and saying, like, how I feel now. I think honest can be a little rough. I think some people think that it's a binary, like, either I'm nice or I'm honest, right? And and I think some older people are just like, I'm just being honest, and they can be end up being

Colette Fehr:

cruel, right? Let's be clear that honest isn't mean it's healthy, and honest can be and should be delivered with tact and diplomacy. That's also being a mature adult, but we're talking about not not being nice. I mean, I do like to think that I am kind, which a lot of people will differentiate from Nice. We're talking about being nice when it's betraying yourself, and that is the pathway to resentment. Swallowing your feelings and needs is the fastest way to get sick, medically and physically sick, and also to be a miserable human. So I think the beauty of midlife is that as women, especially as our estrogen goes down, and we're not as obsessed or wired to caretake everyone around us emotionally, that finally we can say, You know what, I actually don't want to do that. You know what? I'm not available, or just the full stop sentence, which is a full paragraph, no, no, without explanation. And this requires the ability to tolerate people having their reactions, letting them have whatever they their reaction is, whatever their feelings, and learning to sit through the discomfort of not always making people happy. There's no way to do it except to go through and to get more and more comfortable.

Laura Bowman:

That's it. That's it being that bad guy, saying the true thing, that what other people are not happy with you, and you tolerating that and still kind of going on your way and doing what's right

Colette Fehr:

for you. Yeah. And before we move on. Classic low level example, a bunch of women who are all like trying to be agreeable, right? We don't even think about it. We do it naturally. It's like, where do you want to go to lunch? Everyone's like, I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. You know what? Care? Say your preference. If someone hates say, I'd love Thai food. If someone doesn't like Thai food, let them say I hate Thai food. Okay, fine. Then what do you want to do? Right? Like, just start to assert your actual opinion. You're not being difficult. Society has fucked us over by making us think, having an opinion and expressing it makes us difficult or too much. So let's get rid of that one at midlife. Yeah,

Laura Bowman:

and that's a great point too. Like, just start on those low level things and start building you want to go on the next

Colette Fehr:

one here. Sure, I love this one, measuring yourself against other people. We all know Comparison is the thief of joy. It's a waste of time. And midlife is really a season that is not about competing with other people. It's about realizing you run your own race, you should be growing, but you should be competing with old you versus you now and where you want to go with future you. There's always going to be someone if we have a victim mentality. First of all, our brains are naturally wired for comparison, so it's not like you're doing anything wrong, but we. Have to recognize that and override it by instead of seeing ourselves as, oh, they're doing better than me, or I'm not where I'm supposed to be. I hear clients say this all the time. Instead, it's like, look how far I've come, and where do I want to go?

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, yeah. And I just want to normalize like comparison. I mean, they've done studies on this, on like, like apes, where it's like, if you are, like, at the low end of your group, it's like, it's physically painful, like, it's like, it like your life is at date in danger, really, if you're the low level of the herd. So it's like, very painful to be in, like, a comparative situation where you feel like you're not doing well. It's a horrible feeling,

Colette Fehr:

right? And that's why we naturally compare, because the person who's doing the best in a herd has the most access is to resources and lives the longest now that we're hijacked, right? And that's why it is a biologically wired imperative. So again, it's normal that we're all going to be prone to some comparison and social media, as we've talked about in other episodes, does not help, because we're subjected to a ridiculously wide lens of comparables, but we've got to try to find a way to drown that out and keep our focus on, am I doing better than I was yesterday? What are my small goals? What am I getting right and like, how do I want to grow? How do I want to look back in six months a year, five years, and look at Wow, old me was there, and look where I am now. That's the comparison that matters.

Laura Bowman:

And like, just building a life of your own values, it's so easy to get, like, sidetracked by what everybody else is doing and beginning to like, fill in the blanks with like, this is what other people care about. Maybe this is what I should care about. And really just saying, No, this is kind of what I care about. And the other stuff, I need to sort of put some blinders on to

Colette Fehr:

right now that you should be doing what other people are doing, because if they're doing it, it should be important. You know what's important to you? Who are you? What do you want? Exactly? Amen, Okay, you go for number three,

Laura Bowman:

okay, living up to a life you thought you'd have by now.

Colette Fehr:

I mean, I don't know about you, but I see this a ton in therapy.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, I do too. I I see it a ton. I think that it's easy to like, if anything goes wrong, to feel like you're not on pace. This can happen with kids and jobs and romantic relationships, if you're not like, hitting these developmental milestones, like it's just like, I've fucked the whole thing up, and now it's not worth having.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah. And also, I think for a lot of people, when something hard happens, you lose a job, you go through a divorce, maybe you see everyone around you. Back to the comparison piece, too, seems to have more affluence or more access, or an easier job, or like I was talking to somebody recently, all their friends are retiring, and they're not in a position to retire. So those comparative things can can bring this to life inside of you. But I think sometimes we just look around and go, This isn't what I thought it was going to be. And I think this is a malaise that can set in at midlife, because in many ways, we've been striving until now, and there's a feeling of, okay, now I'm arriving right? This is the culmination of all my hard work, and if you feel like you're not where you envisioned, even, even if it's not comparative to other people, that can be painful to come to terms with. I just think the big thing is, if we stay there, then we can really slip into victim mentality and miss the gratitude piece and all of the promise and potential of this season.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah. I mean, I think that life sometimes is like the game of Candy Land. Do you remember Candyland, of course, where you're like, right about to get to, like the Candy Castle, and all of a sudden you end up in like, the Gumdrop swamp, yeah? Like, what? Like, I was on pace for this, and now I'm here. And I think a lot of life is like that it is and, like, normalizing that everybody has some version of this in their life, and we have to be able to, like, cope our way through this, yes,

Colette Fehr:

and what I see, I was just thinking it's also Chutes and Ladders is the same, and realizing how those games are the same, exact game which is different motifs. This is only occurring to me. Candy Land way better. Yeah, me too. Me too, because I like candy better than playgrounds. But that is what life is like, and again, we're seeing everybody else's highlight reel so they seem like they're only moving ahead on the board. Yeah. Meanwhile, trust us, everyone is just as miserable, if not more miserable than you at least a good percentage of the time. Everyone's stressed, everyone's scared. You know, everyone struggles behind the scenes. Means, but you're right that we have to be able to cope with what is, I think this is such a hugely important ability and capacity to develop at midlife, because otherwise you just sort of give up and and you do slip into that paralysis of victim mentality. Yeah. So I think the coping comes from saying, like, a little bit of humor, a little bit of right, like, okay, so, you know, my bank account has$40 in it. This is not what let me just out myself at some times right now, when I'm in this entrepreneurial season, you know, this isn't where I thought I was gonna be exactly, but in some ways, I'm also in places that are more exciting and different, and there's always the option to pivot, to grow. It's never too late. One thing we know for sure is that things will always change. That's the only thing that's guaranteed.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, and it's so funny, I did this whole thing on resilience with, like, the women. What was there was a couple men in the group at the University Club. And so everybody there is, like, almost, like, 75 years or older, and everybody was talking about their resilience journey. And these people were amazing. And they just, like, sharply, gave me a new perspective. One woman, you know, her, like, had grown up in like, two world wars, and so her family had gone through these, these wars and kidnapping. I mean, just crazy stories, and it makes you go like, Oh. So I think on top of the coping with humor is a little bit of perspective, cultivating gratitude, being able to be in the moment and realize how many things are working. I think we get such a negative bias on what isn't working that you can just get hyper fixated on that. But all of those things help pull you out and help you cope with this.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Okay, let's go on to number four, what other people think of you? You know, we all say that. That's probably the most cliched one, I think this is on a spectrum and a continuum. And speaking for myself, first of all, this is another thing that's survivally wired right? Doing well and thriving and living long means you have to fit into the herd. So that comes with some degree of caring what people think about you. So let's just normalize that. Unless you're a sociopath, you probably do care, and probably will continue to care. It's certainly appropriate to care about your inner circle and how you impact them and those relationships. But beyond that, I think midlife is an opportunity to shed a lot of the obsessing of how you sounded or, you know, men don't go through this as much Some do, some do, but women, we tend to be so relational, so conscientious, so worried about, were we not nice? Were we this? Did we look that? Are we being too show offy about our success? Were we too assertive? Did we not consider others? Did we force our opinion and great all the Gook. And the reality is a lot of people aren't going to like us. People are jerks. Most of how they respond to you is about their own capacity and their own inner templates. And freedom from this really allows you to go after the life you want to live, however big or small. Yeah, yeah,

Laura Bowman:

that's true. I love what Martha Beck says about how we all have what she calls the our everybody, like everybody thinks this or whatever. And she says, If you really dig down into your everybody, it's like three to five people that we live in our imaginary audience of who is watching us and what they think of us, to realize that, like these, people are so much more focused on themselves, and that nobody is really watching your life with like a

Colette Fehr:

microscope, right? I mean, the reality is, though people do have judgments, and it can be painful to bump up against that, but I also think that we can get stuck in that. And your Martha Beck thing is amazing, because it's really, it may even be smaller than three to five. Could be like two people, yeah, or for some people, it's one. You know, it's that critical parent that is still shaming them on the inside that they're now projecting into whoever else in society. So I think, notice who those voices are, and acknowledge that it is painful. If you heard overheard someone saying something negative about you, it would hurt, and you'd also survive, because you're a mature, healthy adult, and like you said people aren't paying as much. It's the spotlight effect, where we think the spotlight is a psychological term, as you well know Laura about it feels like everybody's watching, especially, you know, I do all this social media, these videos, and I've gotten some nasty little comments about my physical appearance, and I. Uh, other things, like my big forehead, my boobs being visible, that I'm like, Man hating that I'm, you know, for excusing men. You name it. Everybody. What is it that expression everybody has an asshole and an opinion? Yeah, I love that. Yeah. So it's like, okay, yeah. You know, it's toughened me up a little. And if I'm honest, it still hurts. And at the same time it's also like, okay, next

Laura Bowman:

it's a little bit of the cost of admission. I think that people it is, I sort of expect that people have negative things to say about everybody, but I also understand that it comes from a place within self, yes, where like, they're reacting to something in a person that's like being pulled up for them? Yes, I have gotten, like, a perspective that I think there is negativity out there, and it's just something we have to be able to move through

Colette Fehr:

exactly and hurt people. Hurt people mean. People are angry and unhappy in their own lives, some people have something negative to say about anyone, and the truth is, if you're thriving, there are going to be those miserable souls that can't handle it and want to tear you down. So the more we develop a little bit of a buffer and a better relationship within ourselves to validate that. You know, hey, this person, as they say, about 80% of some how someone treats you, and sometimes it could be more is about them. Very little is about you. I think reminding ourselves of that can help us build the muscle to let go of what other people think of us. More and more, I agree. All right, you hit number five,

Laura Bowman:

the number on the scale or the size on the tag. I know some women who have not gotten past this. Oh, I think a lot of people, yeah, we just did an episode on that. And I mean, I, I don't know if I'm like, over this entirely, but I definitely am not going to like, live my life based on on those things anymore, like I and I will not be one of these women like that. Will shove their shoe, their foot, into a size shoe that doesn't fit, or a dress that doesn't fit, because, damn it, there is size four, right? I know people like

Colette Fehr:

that. Yeah, I used to do that. I used to get very upset if I wasn't a certain size. I didn't want to buy the bigger sizes, as someone whose weights fluctuated. And I was just writing about this on sub stack a little where I do my little vim life newsletter that you know, one of the things that's changed for me as I was thinking about this episode, one of the things that's changed is being willing to, like, be up and about in a bathing suit. Now, arguably, even though I've lost weight on these diet shots, arguably, my body does not look the best. I mean, it's not the worst it's ever looked, but it's definitely really far from the best. Things are sad, saggy and droopy and so on and so forth. All the things that happen, not for everyone, but for a lot of us. And I think back to earlier times in life where I was in objectively, really good shape, and I looked great in a bikini, and I still felt all this shame and consternation. So I won't pretend that it's all gone. What I wrote about in sub stack is that I've been as a Gen X woman. I'm too conditioned by the misogyny and the patriarchy and the long term objectification of women, to have shed this completely, we'll see where I am by 70. But for now, what's amazing to me is that I'm not gonna, like, cover myself up. I'm gonna stand up. And if you look at my body and you're some dude and you're judging me. I actually don't give a fuck.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, I agree. I'm a Gen X woman too, in the J Crew mag, like, magazine, what was it? Catalog did a number on me, like, I still my beauty standards are like, like, I don't know. The J

Colette Fehr:

Crew catalog, the J Crew catalog. God, this woman had no fucking figure,

Laura Bowman:

but I did, and I would look at that and I would be like, Oh, my God, that's what I should look like. And I gotta pick three toys. Secret from the 90s, really, like, I couldn't even get into the idea that, like, having a butt was a good thing. I've had younger clients tell me that having a butt is a good thing. And I just can't get

Colette Fehr:

into but it's a certain kind of butt. It's not like a wide, flat ass, yeah? It's, it's like, bubbly, yeah, juicy bottom. I know, I know, but it's just like, it never clicks. I want to be in the J Crew catalog, yeah, because Kate Moss was our age, and you're a little younger than I am, but it was like looking starved and being a wave, and you can never be too thin or too rich. I mean, that was the mantra,

Laura Bowman:

yeah. And so I'm shedding it, but it's I'm gonna function. And I care more about living life than I care about what my the size of, you know, my rear end, or my dress sizes. But like, you know, I think that we're all this. Is a work in progress.

Colette Fehr:

I agree, and I think we have to acknowledge that it's really tough if you are somebody who's been relatively effortlessly thin your whole life according to a societal standard, you may not necessarily, but you may have less struggle with this, like I have one friend like that who was rail thin. Our nickname for her was bone in college. She does not. There's no noise about this, but that's about the only friend I can think of, of 40 or 50 people that I've been friends with over the year that hasn't had some of it. And I think what we're suggesting is, let's accept ourselves with a little more grace. It's mainly, maybe it's not perfect. Maybe there's still some inner critic or some striving. But I notice now, whatever size I am, I am, I notice, like, oh, I look a little chubby in a picture. It's not flattering. You know, sometimes I want to re shoot it. Sometimes I'm like, It's fine. It's good enough. You know, it's just a little more accepting. And also, let's just say this is a number that's been done on all of us, because guys go around with their gut out, and for the most part, they don't care, and nobody shames them for it. It's so true, not on the level that we have been all right, okay, you want to hit number six, yes, being the default caretaker. So this is a big one. You know, the person who holds it all together carries all the emotional labor at home, at work, and the relationships and so many women have been carrying this burden, if not entirely on their own, carrying most of it throughout most of their life. But that doesn't mean we should continue. You know, now's the time to learn how to ask for help and accept it when it's imperfect, and to really delegate tasks to other people and to say, no,

Laura Bowman:

yeah. I mean, I've certainly been the default caretaker in raising my kids, and I would say, in the last several years, like, my husband has really, like, stepped in to do a lot of things, and because I've been working more, and it just, I'm okay with that. I'm like, there's just certain things I can't be around to do, and I don't think I should be around to do. And so just fading out of that role a little bit is really appropriate for everybody. I like being a caretaker, just to be clear, like I that's a natural part of my personality. I kind of, I kind of do default to that. But I I've stepped out of it a little bit to where I don't need to be the person rushing in to have, like, the deep conversation. I can let my kids sort of figure things out on their own. I can let a little space set up between me and a problem with with my family. I can let other people do the dishes. Let other people move the wash from the the, you know, the washer to the dryer. For years, I was always the point person on these things, and I think fade out, see what it's like to sort of loosen the reins on this.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, because a lot of times in therapy, and I know you see this too, we talk about this a lot that people get very especially type a women, one of the strings that binds you to this that's self imposed, is the idea that it has to be done just right and Okay, well, they won't do it the way I want it done, which is a control mechanism, so then I have to do it. And that just you've got to recognize that that's a trap you're setting for yourself. And I hope by the time you hit your late 30s, your mid 40s, sometime in there, you let that go, because that is an anxiety mechanism at play that keeps you on the hook for more than you should be doing. We're not saying don't be a caretaker. It's wonderful to nurture your family, your friends, your partner, yourself. Being caring and giving to others is a positive attribute, but it shouldn't come at the expense of your essential self. And if you're the only one doing it, you're not accepting help. You have outdated scripts you still run that relying on help makes you weak. You should have to do it all. You're the only one who can do it, just so I'm challenging we're challenging you to, like, hold that lightly and look at those beliefs a little. And like you said, just see if you can sit with even a little. Let someone unload the dishwasher that's hard for you. Yeah, and let them. Let them do it wrong. Let them do it wrong. Let the forks be mixed with the spoons. It really doesn't matter. And

Laura Bowman:

just noticing that, like if you are the point person in a family system who does a lot of the caregiving. No one's gonna let you out of that role. No one's gonna write a hand written invitation and say, you know, Mom, I think you should really take a step back and let other people participate. They will keep heaping on responsibility. So until you begin to pull yourself out. Of the role, no one's going to recognize you as like a your own being.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah. And this is one thing that comes up in a lot in couples systems, is women are so sick of carrying all the household and domestic labor and doing many cases, women are working and they still feel like they're doing because they are. Studies have shown women are still doing 70 75% of the tasks at home. But I also think what I encourage people to do as a couples therapist, that someone will say, Well, I don't want to have to I disagree with that. I think you should ask, and you should make it clear, hey, I need you to do this. And if you want your partner to think about those things more naturally. That's great. But if it's not likely to happen, then assert yourself already and say, You know what would be helpful if you do X, Y, Z, and I didn't have to tell you how to do it, figure it out. But then you have to let it be flawed and imperfect. There you go. All right. You have all right. Number

Laura Bowman:

seven. Seven looking ageless. It's

Unknown:

hard.

Laura Bowman:

No, I mean, I'm comfortable looking however I look from age. I want to look good for my age. We did a whole episode on this. I think we've done a few. I want to just look like I'm pulled together for my age. I'm not willing to do crazy things to look younger. Some women definitely are, but I know in these next 10 to 1520 I mean, it's not getting better from here. You know what? I mean, it's gonna be like, it's gonna be kind of like a slow degrade, yeah, of youth. And so I think making some sort of peace with that,

Colette Fehr:

yeah, accepting and being able to allow some version of aging. And I just want to say, because everybody's different, we talked about in our episode the midlife mirror, we really drilled in on vanity and how vanity can get toxic and hold us back and even lead to mental health issues. But I want to say, you know, if you're someone who getting stuff done to your face is super important to you, and you don't want to have wrinkles here, you want to get Botox, or you want to get whatever that eye lift thing is that I probably really need already go for it, like upper bleph. Or is that? What is that? Yeah, I don't know, but I know I probably want to get it eventually. Even though I'm really scared of doing procedures. I don't want to be. I don't want to turn this into some like, moralistic like, okay, because I'm comfortable with getting old. You should be too No, I what I want to say is, you do you, and maybe we don't have to as women, look like Christy Brinkley at 70, because most of us aren't going to, even if we subject ourselves, like, I'll never look that good, even if I was operated and on every day, all day, like there's and never ate food again. Like, it's just not in the cards for me. So giving yourself a little bit of grace and coming to terms with okay, what, what things really make me feel good, and what things are like I am so terrified of aging that I can't tolerate when I look in the mirror, anything that doesn't look like I'm 25

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, I have a lot of compassion for people that are at that place, because I think it's really torturous. I agree with you. I'm not here to, like, judge anybody for whatever they do. I don't know if, like, you know, 10 years from now, I'm talking about a facelift. I don't know where I'll be with it. I don't know what I'll get occupied either. But I'm hoping that I can move through these stages like with you, with grace. That's it, exactly the word, the word of life, Grace,

Colette Fehr:

yeah, and that it's okay to look good, but look your age. Yeah. You know, I think that we're seeing people go gray more again. I'm not saying that's for everyone. I know, I've cut back on my Botox. I've cut my Botox in half, both in the amount of Botox and the frequency that's been to date. The only thing I've done is Botox. My what social media followers like to tell me is my enormous forehead,

Laura Bowman:

and it is big. Really tell you that

Colette Fehr:

online I've had multiple comments. One guy the other day goes, Wow, I even go in the comments. It's still, it's the forehead, I know. But you know what? It shows me how much I have grown. Because I really wasn't like that bothered. I mean, I do have a big forehead. When I first saw it was a little hurtful and shocked. It's shocking. And then I was like, All right, whatever, come at me. You're probably some nasty little like troll, gross troll hiding in a bat cave somewhere, like, Fuck off, right? It's

Laura Bowman:

never good, a good sign if you're trolling the comments on somebody else, creating some my

Colette Fehr:

big forehead has surely been an asset in. Some way. But anyway, I think it's just giving I'm at 52 going on 52 Any moment now, having to really, I see a big shift, even since I was your age, and like having gone through menopause, like things start to change even more. And I think being able to take some of it with a grain of salt and then decide, okay, what things really make me feel good, make me feel confident, and everybody's probably got a different place. But let's not, let's like, shed the idea that women are supposed to look 30 forever. Yeah, it's not realistic. No, yeah. And again, it's something other people are imposing on us.

Unknown:

Okay, am

Colette Fehr:

I hustling for approval? You take it away.

Laura Bowman:

I don't feel like I've ever hustled for approval. So I don't know if I can relate to this one. I just don't I don't really hustle for approval. I mean, I'm trying to think, if I do

Colette Fehr:

okay, well, I can say that I have hustled for approval in some areas of my life, and I know that a lot of our clients do. This is something that a lot of people struggle with, like feeling that your validation, your worth, your value, comes from the outside, that people giving you positive feedback, telling you you're pretty telling you You did a good job, reinforcing your value without that, a lot of people feel empty, and they feel down on themselves. And I think for me, where I used to hustle for approval was in the relational space, probably more than anything. I think I was well validated by my parents as a child, so that didn't, I don't. I've never felt like worthless or that I don't have value or worth. But I think if you don't have people, particularly when you're young, giving you those messages, both implicitly and explicitly, this becomes the thing that can chase you into adulthood. But I would struggle to find it in my romantic relationships where I would want to be I would need a lot of feedback, that I look good, that I was still loved, that I was giving enough, doing enough, keeping someone's attention, looking hot enough, whatever these old ideas I had about a woman having to like continue to captivate a man, and my first marriage fed into All of that. It was that kind of relationship. So it was, I was insecurely attached, but I don't feel that way now. I do feel a little bit of the need to hustle for approval when I'm delving into something totally new, where I don't have a lot of confidence. I mean, I felt like I really hustled for approval for my agent, my book agent, you did my book editors, you know, it's something I've never done before. So I didn't have confidence that I am a writer or that it was good enough unless they told me so. And even that's shifted now. But I think there are different areas this can pop up in life. I

Laura Bowman:

think that's right. I as you're talking, it's it becomes really evident to me that I'm a little bit allergic to this. And I think it's just, it's the same feeling, but an opposite approach, whereas, like, if I feel the tension that I'm hustling for approval, I take myself out very quickly. And I'm not saying that's a good thing, because, like with the book thing, you have to stay in that tense place to get somewhere sometimes where you don't feel adequate, and you do have to kind of work your way through it. And I have a pattern. I'm just outing myself, of like, if I feel this in a relationship, or in anything where I feel driven into like, I find myself searching for external validation, to feel okay, I like, take my ball and my bat and I go to another playground.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, yeah. So it's so in some senses, it can also be a form of protecting yourself from, like I protect myself rejection and maybe right, and that can also lead us to avoid some things that are worthy struggles. Total thing that has for you,

Laura Bowman:

but it probably has, well, capacities. I'm sure it has, but that's another that you know, whether you're whatever end of this you're on, you've got to be able to know when to hold them and when to fold them, you know, right? See, is it worth a game, worth playing, or is it one that it's just not worth it and you don't want to be in that trap?

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, and what I'm just thinking, as you're saying this, is that I think it's be willing to hustle at times for something you want. Yeah, but don't make the whole thing about approval. So I didn't write a book and put myself through all that torture because I wanted to feel worthy. I did it because I wanted to share my message with the world. Because it's always been a goal for me to be an author since I was a little girl. Those are the reasons I did it. I found myself along the way, feeling insecure and at times, falling into being a little more needy of external validation than I normally am. And so sometimes you just have to kind of notice that that pops up. But I think at this stage of life, if you're still feeling an emptiness or questioning your worth or value, which a lot of people are, and again, a lot of this is conditioned in childhood without other people's validation, then that's something to really work on, because we all deserve to feel whole and worthy just by virtue of breathing,

Laura Bowman:

yes, and I think there's a lot of people that have never gotten there, or they've just been so used to getting so much approval from other people that they become like approval addicted. And it's like, tell me I'm good, tell me I'm pretty tell me you love me. Tell me you like my work. It's like they just they don't know how to sort of self soothe, and they don't know how to self validate. And that's what we're saying in midlife, pull that locus of control in and be able to have a conversation where you add some of that for yourself.

Colette Fehr:

Exactly. That's what I was going to say, like, give this to yourself. Because I used to say, even though the love languages isn't a real thing, I used to always say, my love language is words of affirmation. It's really not anymore. It's not the way it used to be. I feel like I give myself more validation and need that less from others. Sometimes it still feels good to have somebody see you and recognize you. Of course, we're human, but, you know, I think this, this, there's a lot more space here than to feel addicted to needing that feed to feel good enough. That's what we're talking about, okay, we got two more, playing small to make others comfortable. I love this one, me too. I mean, I think that just what we're doing, like even this podcast, is, I mean, or the way you show up on social media, you've done a lot of big things. How is it? Are you playing Are you? Do you care about playing small to make other people comfortable at this point? No, no. I mean, I don't think I'm playing small on any level, on any level. I don't think it would have ever shown up for me as the narrative is like, oh, I need to play small. I think there was, like, a little bit of I think the thing that maybe held me back in the past was self consciousness. I get easily embarrassed. I do feel a lot of spotlight effect, I think, also a sense of imposter syndrome that we know we're going to do an episode on this. So stay tuned for that one me too, a feeling like, who am I to do that? You know, needing 8000 trainings and titles to feel like I'm finally qualified. And I think what's happened on this because I am at a stage of life where I'm trying to, I mean, I am playing big now, I don't know what the outcome is yet, but I am not playing small anymore in any area of life, even if it means being uncomfortable, embarrassing myself, failing, I'm still putting it out there, and I think it's really, really freeing. I just think the only way, if that's a struggle for you personally, what I would share is that the only way through that is by exposure. Is by repeatedly doing it. We have to get comfortable being uncomfortable, or we're going to keep playing small.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, and I think a big piece of this is playing small to make other people comfortable. Like it's that idea that if I reduce myself, somehow that's a service to other people, and it's so the opposite, like you doing everything you're doing. Colette gives everybody a model for the fact that, like, some of that can be done

Colette Fehr:

right by anyone,

Laura Bowman:

by anyone who wants to do it right. And I think that the we need more of that in the world. So I don't think you do anything for anybody playing small. I think all of us women need examples of people who went after things, tried things. And so I'm I don't do that anymore either. About like, how is so and so going to think about this? Yes? Like, I don't have that narrative now. I'm somebody who, just naturally, personality wise, I will default to sort of like, flying under the radar, because I just, I kind of like that, yeah, but it's nothing wrong with our other people. It's probably for my own nervous system.

Colette Fehr:

Well, I'm glad you're bringing up that point, because playing big doesn't look the same for everybody like we just recommended to our community the chat that we have at our website, insights from the couch.org. Come join us, because this is where we talk about the podcast a little bit after the episodes, and have you guys ask questions. And stuff, but we recommended the book fired up that just came out, and it's another take on what's that other one? I love Elizabeth Gilbert's book. What is it like? Big Magic. I loved that book. I loved that book because she really narrated a lot of the the challenges that come up within our minds. But playing big can look so different for everyone. I like to think of it as if there's something that you're curious about or that feels passionate, mission, driven, purposeful to you, and you're not doing it. Then ask yourself, why? And go do it and drown out the what ifs and the noise of how people will see you, because it does get more comfortable, yeah, as you do the thing. Yeah. There was a time that putting myself on social media for a video, I would have thought, and probably some people do think this, oh, look at her. She's so full of herself. Every post is like a picture of her, this and that, like I have that I'm at my age like that seems so and you know what? I'm over it. This is part of the way people do business now. And if people want to think that of me, so be it. I know my reasons. I know what I'm doing and why, and it's part of the deal. And like, so be

Laura Bowman:

it. I love that. Okay, I love the last one. I'm sort of bombed its last because this is one of the areas of growth I've had, is having expect or not having expectations for other people's lives. Yep, like, this is something I have like, really let go in the last couple of years. It's really especially like my kids have to do a certain thing, or date a certain person, or go to a certain job, have a certain job, or my husband has to grow at a certain rate,

Colette Fehr:

or handle his job a certain way, or talk to his boss. Or, yeah,

Laura Bowman:

I am not up in people's lives anymore. And you know what? I think this is the best thing, because people need this freedom to feel close to you. I we should do a whole other show about how critical family systems or high expectation family systems, like they make people just leave like you will not get like you will not get closeness with these people you say you care about because they feel so judged and so controlled and so vicariously lived through and by like, letting by stepping back and going, I'm going to give everybody in my family their life back. They are going to run their own

Colette Fehr:

life. They are responsible. You are responsible for your life. I think this is huge. And this is one that I can also say I have done, if not a 180 let's say a 170 maybe I'm like 90% of the way there, that math probably doesn't add up, because having good math skills is not on my midlife growth list. I don't care leave someone else to that I used to be so preoccupied with, Oh, but I can see what they're doing, and they need help, and if I could only get them to do this, and all of it is a bunch of bullshit where you're managing other people to avoid discomfort and to avoid taking responsibility for your own fucking life. So if you're gonna give no fucks about one thing, it's about letting other people choose their course, even if you don't like it, even if you wish they'd do something different, pour your energy into you and let everybody else do them.

Laura Bowman:

And it's not selfish this. It's paradoxically the thing that saves the whole damn system. And I just can't preach that enough from the rooftops. And I think that we control other people, or we get mucked up in the lives of our children. I don't I think partly because we think it's what we're supposed to do, and that that's our value or our legacy. And then another part is because we just don't have any clue as to what we want to do, and so it becomes the default

Colette Fehr:

placement, yeah, and also anxiety. I mean, let's face it, a lot of women have some level of anxiety. A lot of people have anxiety, and it can produce a lot of anxiety to see people doing things like your kids or even your spouse, and some of it is connected to image these people reflect on us, and if we don't like what they're doing, then what does it say about us? So all of these things, these 10 Things to stop giving a fuck about it midlife, are tied together, because once you let go of caring so much what other people think getting your value in managing other people, and you can really stop trying to write the story for somebody else's life, then you're actually free to step into what you are responsible for, which is creating your own story. Because we're all going to be dead in about a hot second, yes, and that is the one thing I think about all the time from that Top Five Regrets of the Dying, that the number one regret was, I wish I had lived my life for me. I wish I had done more of what I wanted to do. It's not a binary choice to be supportive and caring to other people and to take. Responsibility for life. In fact, you do both of those things best organically. When you focus on yourself, you put your oxygen mask on first. That's why that's a cliche.

Laura Bowman:

Yep, and guys, if like, what we're talking about here is like hitting for you. This is what we do in our midlife master class. And we take these principles and we move into our own action. So if you need help around this, jump on our wait list. Check it out. It's on our website now.

Colette Fehr:

Insights from the couch.org, Laura, this was a great episode, and it makes me think of like three more things I want to do a whole podcast episode on. So also, you guys email us, let us know, or join our chat. It's on our website as well, and give us questions, ideas for upcoming episodes. We'd love to hear from you, and we hope you got today some valuable insights from our couch. We'll see you next time. Bye, guys. You.