Ep.61: 7 Skills You Need to Master Midlife

In this episode, we’re discussing the real, raw, and essential skills that every woman needs to navigate midlife with grace, grit, and a whole lot of self-compassion. We’ve been through the highs, the lows, the chutes and ladders of this season, and today we’re pulling back the curtain to share the seven foundational skills we believe every woman should know to not just survive, but thrive. These are the skills we teach in our Midlife Master Class, and the ones that have held us up through the toughest times. From boundary-setting and assertive communication to frustration tolerance, inner parts work, and energy protection—this conversation is packed with insights we’ve lived, taught, and continue to practice ourselves. 

Episode Highlights:

[0:02] - Why midlife is so hard—and why these 7 skills matter
 [2:46] - The highlight reel isn’t the whole story (and why we cry behind the scenes)
 [6:12] - Boundaries: not just with others, but with yourself
 [9:03] - When your kid is in a toxic relationship (and you want to break up with them yourself)
 [13:44] - Self-care as a boundary: what it really looks like
 [14:00] - Assertive communication: the misunderstood superpower
 [21:10] - Frustration tolerance: why it belongs in your skillset
 [22:10] - What self-connected communication actually looks like
 [29:43] - Understanding and befriending your inner critic
 [31:10] - Why self-compassion isn’t fluffy—it’s essential
 [33:08] - Protecting your energy: from giving tree to grounded goddess
 [39:39] - The dance between being needed and being free
 [41:31] - Redefining resilience as a learned, practiced skill
 [46:02] - How changing your self-talk becomes your superpower
 [47:39] - Why doing this work in a group is so powerful (and how you can join us)

If today's discussion resonated with you or sparked curiosity, please rate, follow, and share "Insights from the Couch" with others. Your support helps us reach more people and continue providing valuable insights. Here’s to finding our purposes and living a life full of meaning and joy. Stay tuned for more!

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Transcript

Laura Bowman: 0:02

Marc, Hi guys, today we are talking about a big thing. We're talking about the seven skills you need to master midlife. These are the skills that we think are the things that are going to make midlife manageable, help you get your goals. These are the things that we really work with in our midlife master class, and we want to just dig really deep in that to them today, right? Yeah, this is kind of the foundation that you need at this stage of life to live your best life. And Laura and I were chatting before we got on just about how, you know, we redid our website, and we love it, and we had so much fun doing it. And the pictures show us so happy and laughing. And it's not that we're not like, happy, but it's the highlight reel, right? It looks so sunny and like life is so great. And I know I'm like, we look so damn good. We're cute, right? And first of all, we're not always that cute. And second of all, life is really hard for all of us, I think, in so many different ways. We've all got our different challenges that we're dealing with, but there's a universality to it, which I always find so comforting. So many of us are going through so many of the same things. We're taking care of aging parents. We're experiencing loss. We're parenting children. Our children have issues of some kind that break our heart. We're worried for them. We're busy. We're managing careers. We're navigating relationships. I mean, I hear from so many people because of how active I am on social media, and how much I open up about my own marital struggles, my own divorce. You know, then people know I'm a couples therapist. So many people message me privately and say, oh my god, I'm going through exactly this right now. You know, there's just so much at midlife. Then we haven't even mentioned, of course, perimenopause and menopause and those enormous changes. So I think it's it's tough for all of us, but these are the skills that Laura and I have curated that we teach in the midlife master class. And we actually have a freebie on our website too, insights from the couch.org where you can download this exact like the document to go back over all of this, but we want to dive deep and give you some value today that you can use right away on how these skills can help you. It's not going to make the challenges go away, but it can make them a little easier, yeah. And just like to the to your point. I mean, there are so many times that you and I sit together and just cry, just to be real. I mean, just cry and and I mean, life is so much a game of like chutes and ladders in Candy Land, and sometimes you just cannot believe where you are in moments. And you and I definitely are always grappling with those things. Our lives are not perfect, and I just one of the things that has helped me so much is doing therapy people. People often say to me, and I don't know if they say this to you, how do you do this all day? How do you sit here and listen to people all day? Is this exhausting for you? And I'm thinking, No, it's not exhausting, and it's a reminder. And I wish everybody could come in with me and just sit and witness the human experience and what people go through, because it's so normalizing, and you realize, oh, everybody is struggling with some version of the same, some of this? Yes, yes, so, and I think what we're saying with this episode today is that some of the skills we've learned as being therapists are the things it's like the scaffolding that's made us able to cope

Colette Fehr: 3:55

with hard, yep, beautifully said. It's so true. I'm thinking about it. You know, one of the biggest benefits, other than the fact that being a therapist is such a rewarding job, it can be such a challenging job, and I'm not going to pretend it's all sunshine and roses, but it is rewarding to know you're doing something where you're really impacting people and helping them, and it can be so gratifying in that sense, like I feel like we couldn't have a more meaningful, purposeful job. So I love that. But the other thing is that by becoming a therapist, the training we go through in graduate school and just sitting with people, not only the normalization, but the skills you need as a therapist, some of what we're going to talk about today to be able to communicate assertively, to be able to hold boundaries. It was becoming a therapist that helped me develop a lot of these skills. And if not for that, I'm not sure I would have them all. So as you guys listen to these seven, some of these you may already have pretty locked down. Maybe all of them are still a struggle, but just be listening for. Where you are and what you could improve on, because we're all a work in progress, and even though I've gotten so much better at boundaries and I'm a recovering people pleaser, which some people literally don't believe that I could be a people pleaser, because I have such a strong part that gives zero fucks and is like, I'm doing what I want, but it depends on the context, and in places where I feel vulnerable, or I could lose a relationship, or I'm afraid to offend or disappoint, I used to have a very hard time holding boundaries. I'm pretty good at it now, but it's still a struggle. It's always a struggle. It's always a struggle, right? And we're still up against good girl conditioning that I call good girl, itis. I don't care how powerful you are at work, no one wants to be the bitch, right? And that's the problem. Often as women, we're seen as a total bitch, if we're just a normal, assertive human being who isn't constantly, like, rolling over on our bellies for the world, right? So let's get into it. Yeah, let's get into it. Okay, all right, so I don't know, we don't have to go in order necessarily. Let's talk about boundaries first, since we're on it.

Laura Bowman: 6:12

Okay? I mean, we talk so much about boundaries. But as I was thinking about this today, I was thinking about our Drama Triangle episode, and I was thinking that the part of boundaries that we don't talk enough about is a part where we understand what's on our side of the fence or our side of the I just I envision, I envision my relationships with other people, like a tennis court, okay, right? And what's on my side of the net is really mine, and what's on their side of the net is really theirs. And I see so many people when they come into therapy like completely tangled in the net, because they're like, over the net into their into other people's space. And so so much when we talk about boundaries, we're always like, what do we need? Where do we need to set boundaries? But part of boundaries that we don't talk enough about is recognizing the autonomy of other people and knowing where to step back from other people and let people make their own choices do. I talked about this a lot in the Drama Triangle, but it's it's a place where where people just get really messed up, yeah. And it was, what was the thing you said in our Drama Triangle episode? I wrote it down because it was one of our reels, and I was like, I love this. I love this.

Colette Fehr: 7:29

I have no idea. I can't remember what I said five minutes.

Laura Bowman: 7:32

Oh, my God, people have a foundationally distorted perception of what they're responsible for with the people that they care

Colette Fehr: 7:39

about. Oh, it gave me chills. My own words, yeah, the mic it's so true, right? Mic drop. And you know, I love your metaphor. First of all, I just gave a talk to a tennis team about the mental game of tennis. So tennis has been on my mind. Oh, good. And also, I think it's such a great visual metaphor, because, you know, you're whether you play tennis or not, I pictured somebody like in the net, and then I also pictured somebody, from a boundary perspective, serving the ball and then running to the other side to try to hit the ball back, and like, elbowing the person out of the way so they can return the shot, then running back over. This is metaphorically what a lot of people are trying to do in life. They're trying to manage everyone. So we're talking about not only having boundaries with other people, but self imposed boundaries, recognizing when you feel an urge to get involved that maybe you don't have to. Like I went to I won't even say which child, so that way. I keep it a little bit anonymous, but I was with one of my children yesterday and hearing about her plans and what's going on in her relationship. She is an adult, and when I heard the details of the current relationship, and I just wanted to pull every hair out of my head and scream,

Laura Bowman: 9:01

he wanted to climb over the net run

Colette Fehr: 9:03

like this dude sounds like Bad News Bears like I just, oh my god, from the apartment the animal he has the she's never gonna listen to this episode. So thank God. My kids are like, I have no interest in your podcast, mom. Yeah, they're like, that podcast for old people, but I just this guy also has, like, already has a track record of not being super honest, like, it's just awful. And then she said to me, you know, I know it's kind of toxic, but, like, I just can't get out of it. And I mean, Ah, right? So I was like, yes, you can you. She goes, see, I don't really know how to do it. I said, you say, this isn't working for me. Goodbye, right? So, and she's like, well, that's real easy for you to say, mom. But my point in this is that every fiber of my soul, we're walking around home goods, and I'm hearing this. And you know how expressive My face is, and I know how expressive My face is, so I'm trying to keep my face neutral and impassive, but I wanted to take her and just say, No, you have to leave this relationship. Now. This isn't good for you. It's only gonna get worse. You're gonna get hurt. I don't even know if this guy is like, safe to be around. What the fuck are you doing? And we're ending this now, like, I literally want to call the guy and break up with him for her. So anyway, my point as I go on and on here is that, you know, it may seem super obvious that that's where I shouldn't be involved, but I'm a relationship therapist. My kid is suffering. I've had phone calls from her sobbing over this guy. He doesn't sound like a great guy. And you know, I had to have that moment where I said, okay, all I can do is offer like a tidbit or two if I'm invited to to be here and to be supportive, to give some feedback. And she, at one point, she was like, Mom, I really don't want to hear it like I'm not. I really don't want to hear it like I already know. I don't want to hear it from you. And I'm like, Okay, it's right. Oh, how many times have I been in a toxic really? I've been in a toxic relationship, like at twice her age, so I need to let her figure it out, even if she gets hurt more, instead of running onto the other side of the tennis court,

Laura Bowman: 11:20

stealing the racket? Yes, yes, yeah. You gotta let people have their own growth experiences and and to that end, I think, and maybe we'll talk about it more in other areas today, but it's about some people just don't know what to do on their side of the court,

Colette Fehr: 11:38

right? You know? They just because they're so busy with the other side of the corner, they're so busy

Laura Bowman: 11:41

and they just don't know what to do, and they don't know how to redirect their energy back to themselves. But so when I think of boundaries, yes, we do have to learn that no is a complete sentence. We don't have to over explain the amount of people that love to over explain to me. I mean, my God, like you get good at saying really simple things, like, I have a conflict. This isn't going to work for me. Can we come up with something else I don't want to, I'm exhausted, whatever that's available.

Colette Fehr: 12:09

Yeah, right, and I agree. I think there are some context where an explanation is warranted or helpful, but over explaining, no, and we tend to think we need to, and you're right, just saying, you know, unfortunately, that won't work for me. Can we do X, Y, Z, like you don't have to. You don't really owe people anything?

Laura Bowman: 12:31

Yeah, and we've done a lot of episodes on boundaries, right?

Colette Fehr: 12:35

But it just as a reminder having boundaries with yourself too, not just with over extending with other people, but I think part of boundaries also is self care. Like, directed at self care, you know, I'm not going to have I would eat like, Krispy, Kreme donuts all day, every day, even on GLP one shots. I would silly, yes, yes. Like,

Laura Bowman: 12:59

that's so you have a boundary that says, like, I'm not going to eat. Like, yeah, it could

Colette Fehr: 13:03

probably better. But like, I just, I don't I like junky food that's like, what I like. It's been that way since I'm a kid. You know, I'm going to be 52 years old, and I'd still rather eat that than salads. But yes, a boundary, a self imposed boundary. And you know for other people that one most women eat far healthier than I do, I think so maybe that's just an example that pertains to me, but you know, making sure you're taking care of yourself is holding a boundary, that you're drinking enough water, that you're getting enough sleep. Like those are part of self care, taking care of inner parts of self that we have to implement on a regular basis,

Laura Bowman: 13:44

knowing how much exercise you need, how much sleep you need, how much alcohol you can tolerate, all those things are self imposed boundaries, right? Not from a punishing standpoint, but from a self loving, an awareness of this is me. This is how I work best,

Colette Fehr: 13:59

exactly. And I think from here, as we're talking about these seven skills to master midlife that we teach in the midlife master class, let's go into assertive communication for a minute, since we're on boundaries, because that's another one of the skills, if you haven't learned how to communicate assertively. And this is like my whole career, my whole book that's coming out. It's so misunderstood, I think it's very important to be diplomatic. And as women, my hope for every woman is at this season of life, we come into our own, we find our voice, and we can be direct and clear, but still diplomatic, still kind. We don't have to be nice and caving, but it's exactly what you're saying. Laura, you know, I can't do that. I'm not comfortable with that. No, here's when I'm available. Here's when I'm not available. What I will tell you as somebody who or and not to mention bringing up what bothers you. You in your relationship and being able to communicate clearly what you need, but I will tell you as someone who really struggled to be assertive, I was passive aggressive. I would just say yes to things that I didn't want to do because I felt like I should, because I felt like I would be judged, or I would be seen to this or that, and then I feel resentful and frustrated and all of that stuff. Once you start exercising this muscle and seeing how well most people respond to kind clear, direct communication, it becomes so easy.

Laura Bowman: 15:39

Yeah, and I, and I also think this is, this is an area that's been hard for me. I've developed asymmetrically on this. I think most people do develop asymmetrically, and meaning that there's areas where you can get really good. I'm really good at this in certain areas with close others, and who's good at this with my inner circle, my inner circle, like, it's very real here in our house, right? Nothing, nothing is left unsaid, right? So it's, you know, it's very easy for me to say, like that hurt my feelings, that wasn't helpful. That's not okay with me. You know, I can say the real thing with close others. I've also gotten pretty good at it with work, because it had to, yep, me too. I think where I struggle the most with it is where I know, where I just I go. I don't know if it's worth it. You know, if it's there's somebody that I think I could say that that hurt my feelings, or I could say that that bothered me, but I don't know if it's worth it. Like, I don't know if I really want to deal with that, and sometimes I'll inhibit still on moments like that and with strangers, I do not like conflict with strangers. Me neither. Like if somebody gets aggressive with me in the car. I just like pretend I don't see them. If somebody's like, I do not fight back. I am like, I'm like, a how quickly can we get through this without having to have conflict? But, but I'm much better in situations where I have to send food back or ask for what exactly that what I need. I don't sit there and eat a meal I didn't order.

Colette Fehr: 17:19

Oh, my God. I find that insane. And also what I think is missing is you can do it nicely. I will always send food back or explain what isn't right in food, but I'm always nice about it, you know? And I think that's the part to me, that's the part that's missing for a lot of people, because some people will only assert themselves when they're relying on a burst of emotion or anger to propel them, and so then it can sometimes come out sideways. Now hopefully, part of our skill here is the emotional regulation of being able to sometimes you are angry and you still have to regulate yourself enough. But the beauty of assertiveness is it saying the thing without relying on anger to make you like to make it easy, because when you're angry, you don't care, you're just say the thing, right? You fire it off. But usually it doesn't come out best. And I think what you're saying about sometimes it's not worth it. I actually think that's part of the process that we should be having for everything. I don't think we have to say everything. Yeah, sometimes it isn't worth it. But I think the problem is so many women that we see in our office as therapists, friends we have, and I know how we both used to be more is that we're not saying things that need to be said, like you're okay. Maybe we're saying in our households, nothing goes unsaid. But let's say it's a particularly stressful time in our husband's job, or we've been fighting a lot lately, and there's something that needs to be said, but it feels like, oh my god, this is going to lead to another freaking fight. I'm exhausted. I'm not even sure I'm going to be heard. Why bother? Those are the things that we're saying. You know what? That's where you probably need to push yourself to say it anyway. It doesn't have to be that second, but it needs to be said, because otherwise, when it comes to close relationships or work, if we start to swallow things that matter, and we rationalize them away. We end up so filled with resentment, and this is the foundation of my book, the cost of quiet, why these things have to be said? Because in the long run, it isn't worth the cost of keeping it in but you have a friend that you don't know that well. You know, you don't see her that often. She said something that hurt your feelings. Maybe the relationship isn't close enough. It's not worth it to be like, hey, yeah, when we went to lunch on Thursday, what you said really hurt my feeling. You know, maybe it is if you're gonna like, if she's important to you and you're gonna resent. And it's going to affect the friendship. Maybe it is, but if you don't care that much, you let it go,

Laura Bowman: 20:05

right, right, right. So discernment is a huge piece of it, but I definitely agree with close people like your partner. I think when you let those things fester, it people end up pulling away from each other and just living in their like Silent little encampments. And you never get your needs met anyway. So figuring out how to say the real thing in a warm and appropriate way that's assertive, yes, like is a chef's kiss skill that everybody needs at

Colette Fehr: 20:35

this Yes. And let me add one more thing before we move on, because I know we have a lot more to get to that part of this is learning to tolerate the frustration that comes with knowing sometimes you will disappoint someone. There are people who won't have a good reaction, you know, and that's okay. The more you do that, the more you realize, oh, it's really, actually not that bad. There's no way to feel for it, to feel more comfortable

Laura Bowman: 21:01

than to you know, when you say that, I feel like that skill needs to be in here is like the frustration tolerance, the negativity tolerance. Let's make that on here. That needs to be

Colette Fehr: 21:10

one, and because we do teach that in the midlife master, yeah, yeah, it's tolerating

Laura Bowman: 21:15

disappointing people tolerated, tolerating being disappointed. Frustration tolerance, yeah, frustration tolerance is a skill, man, so that's just pinging for me that we've got to go right to self connected communication. Because to me, this is the skill of my lifetime. This has been one of the biggest breakthroughs I've made. And I think me too huge shift when people make this this shift, and I I've learned it mainly from internal family systems. And if you don't know what internal family systems, it's Dick Schwartz's work out of Harvard. And he talks about how within all of us, we have an internal family, just like a whole group of people living inside of us that are different parts, the the critic, the small, younger children, perfectionists, the angry part. There are all sorts of

Colette Fehr: 22:10

scared little kids, scared

Laura Bowman: 22:12

little kids, all of it is inside. And so many people walk around the world just hijacked into a part all the time. They live through their angry part. They live through their critic, they live through their perfectionist, and they're not what we call self LED. And being led by the self is a totally different vibe. It's where you're calm, you're confident, you're connected, you're compassionate, you're creative. It's this you're curious, or source you're curious. Yeah, it's, it's a totally different energy source. And when you have a part that's leading you around, as opposed to having the self lead those parts, oh, man, it's totally different. And it's been a huge shift I've made. I have a hell of an angry part. I mean, my my angry part, I seem so chill, right? Yeah, chill. People tend to have very intense, angry parts. So true. I have to have like somebody to defend the castle, right,

Colette Fehr: 23:09

right? So, right. It's a protective part of very protective Yeah. And in ifs therapy, they call these parts firefighters or managers, where a manager is a part that comes out and tries to, just like a manager at a company, right, like, make sure everything goes a certain way. A firefighter is a part that comes out, from a scientific standpoint, when your nervous system is at max capacity, and that part just comes out right and to make whatever's happening stop so the nervous system can cool down. And the problem with being hijacked by a firefighter part of self is that that part has one goal and one goal only, and that's to put out the fire so it doesn't care who's hurt and what the consequences are in the process. And I'm with you that this has been a life changing thing for me. It's the foundation of what I do in couples therapy, because fight or flight is when we get into these parts. And emotional regulation is so much of a part of relationship struggle. And I learned to do parts work, because Dick Schwartz is wonderful, and I love ifs, but he didn't come up with this either. You know, there's other versions of it around, yeah, well, and ego state therapy, yeah, and going all the way back to object relations, but anyway, not to get too psycho babbling that when I became an EMDR therapist, which is the eye movement trauma therapy, for you guys who aren't familiar with it, we do a ton of ego state and parts work because it helps you to have a relationship like we all have these parts of self, and they're going to pop out in different moments. But I think a big foundation of our work as therapists and our work in the midlife masterclass is helping all of us get in touch with our own internal family, our. Own internal team, to know all of these parts, to accept them and to listen to them. But like you said, Laura, to put the wisest, most grounded adult self driving the bus leading the system. I call that the sage self, and that is the you, you know, I always picture my sage self as, like I for some reason, I have brown hair. I'm wearing no makeup. I mean, I am a brunette, but, like, I hate how I look with brown hair. But anyway, in this image, I have brown hair, no makeup, wearing these ratty pants that have like a hole in them, these old yoga pants I lost and miss and I'm barefoot. That is the image that comes to me for my sage self, and why this is such a skill. And another one of the skills we talk about is having a good relationship with your inner critic. Is because anytime I feel lost or I feel overwhelmed or I'm getting rattled, I can check in with I can close my eyes, I put my hand on my heart, and I can check in with that sage self, that girl with the brown hair that looks terrible, but she's so like calm and happy. It's like your intuition. You know it's your wisest self, but having the relationship established as an ongoing practice, and a skill is what enables you to have access to that part in a difficult moment. Yeah,

Laura Bowman: 26:28

I mean, this is like half of what I do when I walk. You know that my meditative walks, I am talking to parts, and I let them come up. They come up anyway. I mean, they, when I get into my body, my parts kind of soften and rise, and so knowing them, when they come up, I'm ahead of them. I can feel in my body when that anger piece is getting going, it's it's got a very cyclical energy in my system, and I can get ahead of it and go, I'm here, like, I'm going to handle this. I don't fly off the handle any in the same way I used to when I was younger, when I was so unconscious. Me too. Now it's, I go to that part. I listen to that part. I'm like, Okay, what do you I got this? I'm going to handle it. My wise adults, going to handle it right, and just that, that slowing down, that being mindful of those parts, it's a game changer in how you function.

Colette Fehr: 27:30

I agree, and it's really, it's not an intellectual I mean, it's hard to again. This is something we do experientially in our group, and we do experientially as therapists all the time. It's a process. It's really not enough to know, oh, this is, this is, I have that part of me intellectually felt sense, right? You have to actually connect to it. So what I would say, if you're listening to this episode and you're not doing our class, we're seeing a therapist who does this kind of work, is just start by closing your eyes for 30 seconds and notice what parts pop up. Notice what voice you hear. I'm very visual. I see everything like a movie, something I can't visualize at all. So don't force anything. But images may come to you, and if not, you'll hear a voice like one of our other skills, like I mentioned, is the inner critic. You will often hear an inner critic part. Mine is named Jane, and that's my middle name. It's also my mom's name, but it has nothing to do with that. And mom, I know you're probably listening, so please don't take it that way. It's just more Alter Ego, and she's in a suit, and she's very polished, but she's very exacting, and she's very quick to be like, Oh God, Colette, really like, we're still doing this. This isn't good enough. Like, how could you make that same mistake? Now she has her value. She's trying to protect me and help me, but that I have a whole relationship with that part of me where I try to thank her for her feedback. But again, come back to my yoga pants girl and let her drive the bus. So it is so important because the brain runs negative and it's a survival imperative. We all have an inner critic, and some of ours are harsher than others. If you grew up in an environment where parents were very critical, your school environment was critical. It may be even stronger. Just start to notice that voice. Close your eyes for a minute and see if you can get curious. Part of what we do is to speak to these parts directly, like you're talking about Laura, asking them, hey, what do you want me to know? What are

Laura Bowman: 29:37

you afraid of? Yes, what are you afraid? They're usually very afraid of things. Yeah, they don't step in, and they're

Colette Fehr: 29:43

very afraid that the worst will happen if they don't do what they're doing. So sometimes, when we can hear those messages and from that sage self say, hey, that makes sense. And like, I've got you I'm here, that adult self is here now, and I can handle it. It's very. Very grounding. It's very calming, and this really helps us know ourselves, then sometimes how we're polarized, where one part of us wants one thing and one part of us wants another. So if we can develop relationships, we can get answers from the self.

Laura Bowman: 30:18

Yes, it's so it's it's such a game changer. And obviously you can imagine how it's a game changer in relationships, because you're not pulled as quickly into the fight or flight, or if you are, you have a way of slowing it down. I obviously, you know my inner critic, bons, she's an interject of like my mother and my grandmothers, and she is a pill. She can be harsh. She comes like, that's what you're wearing. Like, Oh, really. Like you're doing that. Like, what? Why are you doing that?

Colette Fehr: 30:48

Yeah, we've talked about the fact that, like, we both grew up in kind of, like, elitist environment, so we both have, like, our inner critics have a little hottie side. They're

Laura Bowman: 30:58

hottie and, yeah, breathing, and you have to Yeah,

Colette Fehr: 31:01

and that is not who I am at all. But no, we internalize our environment. So there's a part of self that can come out like that,

Laura Bowman: 31:10

and this is the seat, as you can imagine, of self compassion, yes, like when people are like, I have no self compassion. I can't be I can't forgive myself. I can't be be compassionate towards self. When you have relationships with the inner, the inner system, self, compassion becomes obvious. All right, let's go to the next one, because we're we're running

Colette Fehr: 31:31

long, okay, I want to talk about two more that I think we need to talk about, since we're adapting this as we go protecting energy and resilience, let's touch on those two.

Laura Bowman: 31:43

Yeah, I mean protecting energy, I find that it's just understanding I'm one of these people that my energy goes out the door. I've been parenting for 24 years almost. I am a therapist, so I hold space for people. Professionally, I my energy perks up when there's somebody to listen to or take care of. And then when I am with myself, I can sometimes deflate like a balloon and be like, Oh, finally, I'm like, by myself and so and then I perk up again when there's somebody to attend to. And I see that a lot, that people don't even know how to be with themselves or how to even sit with their own energy. And for a long time, I said to you, how many years did I say to you? I feel like I'm stuck in, like, literally, the foreground of my life. I go to the store, I do another load of laundry, I pick up another kid from school, like it's rinse and repeat. I felt like I was living in a circle and that nothing ever really came back to me that I wasn't ever really building anything, and it really running saved me in this in this regard, because it was the one ritual I had where I did come home to myself, yeah, and it's only been in the last five to seven years, I think, where I've Really mindfully taken a good deal more for myself, Yes, and built my own, my own side of my court. Yes, my own identity.

Colette Fehr: 33:08

Exactly, exactly. Building the tennis court that you want and dream of mine would be all pink. Yeah, I'm just picturing. That's what came to me, like a pink tennis court. I'm such a feels very clueless. That's okay. I'm down with that. But you know, I as you're talking and we're so different in terms of our energy sources, so we're sort of like a yin and yang energetically, and when I come alive around people, but when it's like light and social and intellectually stimulating. And, you know, my favorite thing to do would be to spend 24 hours in a cafe and like a European sidewalk, just engaging with people having conversations. The old version of this would be with cigarettes and copious amounts of wine. I'll still take

Unknown: 34:00

it pop in for an hour. Yes, yeah, be there for 24

Colette Fehr: 34:04

Yes. Like, I would be so alive and engaged and excited, because people bring me energy. But I also think whether it's needing time alone, needing time with people, the idea of protecting your energy is that it really is a way that we're parenting ourselves. All these skills are about parenting yourself, that inner child is still in there, and we have to be a good steward of our whole system. We have to be good leaders. We have to take care of ourselves, and we have to make sure there's time and space for whatever energizes us. So to me, also, it's a matter of protecting my energy and my life is a matter of making sure, because I'm in a very busy work season, that it isn't all work, work, work, work, work, like I have a strong ID part, you know that I call fuck it girl, and she's the one who wants to go dance and drink and smoke. Cigarettes and talk and have fun, and she doesn't care about work or anything serious, and that's also a super fun part of me. So I need to make sure that that part gets some space and still gets to breathe and live, because otherwise my energy will get depleted if I'm all responsibility, all serious Colette, all psychology, all work, then I start to get out of balance. And that can happen so easily,

Laura Bowman: 35:29

yeah, and my version of this is very Martha Stewart, like, I need to be like around my house. I need to be creative. I need to be able to sort of wander. I love to be with myself, yeah. I just feel as though, as women and maybe as I'm sort of more of a caregiver type, that I my energy sort of perks to attention when I'm needed, and I can get a lot more. I don't know that on we when I'm not needed, yeah, so I think learning how to master your energy and reclaim your energy and say, like, This is mine. I'm actually putting time into building my own energy source. Like, I see women that can come alive for their children in ways that is, like, so incredible. Like, they're they've got like, a five point plan for the college essay process. And you know, they're booking trips all over the country for themselves, but they cannot find a shred of energy for themselves, right?

Colette Fehr: 36:30

And if that is even remotely resonating with you, you don't have to change your whole paradigm. But like think about claiming back 20% like we've said before, 20% of your energy for you. You know, in our first episode, when we talked about meaning and purpose, which is, I still love that episode. If you haven't listened to it, check it out. Literally, episode number one, we talk a lot about that, about how much time and energy should go toward you. And you know, there's different theories, but some should be going just to you, if you're giving it all away to other people, right? That is going to that is going to blow up in your face eventually, if it hasn't already, we're not designed as human beings to run our life like I always say to people, you're not a human vending machine. You're not just there waiting for people to push your buttons and eat all your snacks. I love that. I mean,

Laura Bowman: 37:25

these are the same people who are caught in the net, right? You know, right? They're caught in the net. They're over the other side of the court. And if you don't learn that, to, like, really invest in your side of the court. Yep, you people will take from you, and you'll be the point person for all the ages, you'll be the fucking giving tree, and you will and and you probably have unrealistic expectations of what other people are supposed to be doing for you, so you're resentful, yeah, and it's just a mess.

Colette Fehr: 37:53

It's a mess. You know, it's so interesting to just random, quick side note. And then let's touch on resilience. I don't really derive anything from being needed. Like, I don't that's not like a thing for me. It's so interesting. And I do feel like I'm needed. Maybe I just feel needed, so I don't think about it, but in a way, when I think about no one needing me, I feel a surge of like, joy, like, I don't think that that is maybe it's just I'm not. I know I'm in the helping profession, and I'm care deeply about people, but I don't get anything out of that role or wanting to be needed. Like, to me, I feel great when I see my kids don't need me. They're thriving without me like I like the autonomous and I don't I'm not saying you feel it in a healthy way. I'm just musing about a difference, that I feel the most free when, like you, I love being with myself, but when no one is expecting anything of me or wanting anything for me, and I can just like, be in the world like a little free bird?

Laura Bowman: 39:04

Yeah, I feel like I'm more ambivalent about it. I love that book, The Unbearable Lightness of Being.

Colette Fehr: 39:09

That's my Milan Kundra. I've read it four times. It's one of my all time favorite books.

Laura Bowman: 39:15

But I love, I like, I think there's always this struggle between wanting weight in my life. This is for me, like wanting weight, meaning that I'm tied, like an anchor to sort certain priorities, and then, like, fighting for lightness, like I kind of want to be, but I don't want to be too light, like and maybe that's the difference here. But I just, I need some I need that tension to be just right for me. I agree

Colette Fehr: 39:40

with that, and I think that's a separate thing, even though, right? I mean, that's the point of the book. It's a philosophy, philosophy book, but with lots of story in it, yeah, that like, right? It's if nothing means anything, you blow away, right? So there does have to be enough grounding, like, sometimes. I think, Oh, my God, if I were like a billionaire, and I could just travel and chat with people and try food and go to museums and read books, but no, I actually wouldn't want that. I mean, I'm not gonna, like, turn it away, but I would need. I need, and I think most of us need, it's back to purpose and meaning. Everything can't be fun, or it just becomes meaningless. It becomes pointless. And then we get into on we so I think we need the like gravitas, and we do need people. Maybe I don't want to be needed, but I want to be tethered. I want to have meaning.

Laura Bowman: 40:37

I would suggest a really distinct difference, but it's important. I want to be tethered. I don't want to be clung to.

Colette Fehr: 40:43

No, okay, amen to that. Oh, I just got goosebumps every time it's like, so true, your body just responds exactly. You don't want to be you want to be tethered, but we don't want to be like tangled or suffocated or smothered. Yeah, right. So all of these skills we're talking about, and as we round out and again, you guys can download this. It's a free resource on our website, insights from the couch.org. Seven skills to master midlife, and we give you some little tidbits to get you thinking and practicing, it's totally free. So check that out. But the last one, resilience, I do really see this as a skill more than it is an innate capacity,

Laura Bowman: 41:31

yeah, and I think it just is what we're talking about. You know, the idea of like that life would be so easy, and how great that would be. I've, I've had really easy parts of my life, and they didn't they didn't feel great.

Colette Fehr: 41:46

No, I actually the time in my life that it was the easiest. I was miserable. I was really miserable, the time in life that I had the most money, the most resources, the least pushing on me, the fewest cares. Now, part of that is like I wasn't happy in my relationship. Maybe I would have experienced it differently if I was, but regardless, I felt like I had parts of myself that weren't developed, things I wanted to do but I didn't know what the hell they were. There was nothing pushing me to have to do anything. So I couldn't really get started. And I did have this sense of on we and then also a worse sense of like I should be happy. Why aren't I happy? I have everything. I was fucking miserable. I'm way now that my life is messy and filled with struggle,

Laura Bowman: 42:34

I have to agree. You know, I have to agree, because my life in the last couple of years has not been like the easiest for multiple reasons that I'm happy to get into it another time, because I don't want to be turn this into my therapy, but I will say that this has been such a powerful season of growth for me, and even though it hasn't been easy, it's been satisfying. Yes, okay, that's it. Yeah, so and the other parts were easy, but they

Colette Fehr: 43:03

weren't satisfying,

Laura Bowman: 43:04

exactly. So I wouldn't take anything from the struggle. I mean, maybe take a

Colette Fehr: 43:10

little bit from I was I was gonna say I could think of a couple things I'll give back, but I still got something out of them. And you know what? I think even we should do a whole episode on resilience, because I think it's a big topic, although we mentioned it as a skill, and it's foundational, again, to our work as therapists, and the midlife master class where we do the group coaching, because it's kind of a blanket thing, but I want to say two things about it. One is that there are people who have endured unbelievable hardships and tragedies and traumas. And I know a lot of clients I've worked with really resent this whole resilience, like they resent the fact that they're so resilient because they've had to be. And that's a whole nother level and category. So I don't want to, you know, short thrift that at all that no, the amount of loss some people have had, the amount of like, like assaults, and, you know, without deep, diving into it, what we see and hear, and I was an EMDR therapist for many years, like, sometimes what we go through to become resilient, like, it just isn't fair and it isn't right. But there's also, and I think what we're talking about here, the resilience, the skill of specifically being able to bounce back after mistakes, after failures, and let go of what you can't control. That's how I see resilience as a midlife skill, is that, and it goes along with frustration tolerance and all of these other skills, is okay. This isn't how I pictured my life to turn out, the resilience is just saying, Okay, this is what is, and I accept it, and I find my joy within it, and I focus on what I can control, and I understand that, like life, many parts of life are not going to be what we want. What we see as therapists is that people are most stuck when they're. Trying to force things to be the way they think they should be, instead of being able to tolerate what is and even if you don't love it, to be able to accept and focus on the places that you have agency. So I see that as instrumental to resilience.

Laura Bowman: 45:15

This is like the backbone of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, which I love, act therapy, if you want to look it up, is one of the most beautiful concepts. But I agree. But I too, have gotten so much better at this, and it to me, it's how I talk to myself through the hard yep, I can. I am narrating things in such a better way, in a way that is like more helpful, and I know when I'm getting off track, and I'm able to sort of pull myself back, find perspective, find gratitude, you know, figure out what the next right move is. It's not perfect. I sit with, sitting with a lot of stuff that's messy, but I'm narrating it differently. That's and that's huge. That's

Colette Fehr: 46:02

huge because, as you're saying that that's probably the biggest shift I've seen in me, too. And I think this is one of the best things that could come out of therapy, or like a good coaching experience, is learning to talk to yourself differently because it's so hard wired. I used to be very berating and hard on myself and critical of mistake, even things like I'll tell clients, you know, even stubbing your toe and saying like, you idiot, your psyche, your subconscious hears that. So when things don't go the right way or you make a mistake, it is important to take accountability and to look at what can I learn from this? But we don't have to do it in this hateful, self loathing way. So many of us think we have to be hard on ourselves or we won't perform. But what the research shows is that we actually perform and succeed far better when we're loving and encouraging in this tennis talk I did, I said, you know, when you're on the court, talk to yourself, coach yourself inside, because that's your self talk like you would a five year old tennis prodigy. I love it. This kid has everything she needs to be like in Wimbledon, and you want to help her get better. You don't want to blow smoke and gloss over the mistakes, but you don't want to crush your confidence and crush your spirit. You want to nurture her talent. So I think that's how maybe this is a good note to end on, that the changing the way you talk to yourself, and maybe that's something you need some help with, but that is your superpower. That's the game changer.

Laura Bowman: 47:39

Yeah, because things are going to be hard. Yes, life is just hard. And you know, if any of this stuff is resonating with you, all this stuff comes alive in a group. You can go to therapy and you can talk to one of us, and you can live inside your bell jar and swirl around inside your own head. But when you're in a group, these concepts come alive in surround sound in a way that it's like, oh, other women are here too. Or I see we're always able to see things in other people, where we're like, she could totally do this, or she could totally do that, where we're not able to see it in ourselves. And so it's that bouncing of energy off of each other that becomes takes these learnings to another

Colette Fehr: 48:24

level. Yep. So if any of this resonates, in addition to our freebie seven skills to master midlife, which you can get it in insights from the couch.org, we also have a midlife master class we do, which is a 12 week group coaching program online, so it's available to anyone, anywhere in the world, if you want to join us. We're doing these groups in an ongoing basis. Our next one's coming up soon, but we'll have one after that. So head to our website, insights from the couch.org, and get on the wait list if you're interested. If you have any questions for us, join us in the chat. You can also find that on our website, that's where we keep the conversation going. Answer questions about the podcast, and if you have questions for future guests, because we have some fantastic guests coming up on here, let us know in the chat. We'd love to hear from you. And as always, we hope you got some great insights from our couch today, and we'll see you next week.

Laura Bowman: 49:22

Bye guys, you.