Insights from the Couch - Real Talk for Women at Midlife

Ep.65: Overcoming Imposter Syndrome at Midlife

• Colette Fehr, Laura Bowman • Season 6 • Episode 65

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In this episode of Insights from the Couch, we're diving into one of the most talked-about but least understood challenges many women face at midlife: imposter syndrome. We're Colette and Laura, two therapists and best friends, and we're getting real about the self-doubt that shows up right when we're trying to level up in life, work, and relationships.

We unpack why imposter syndrome hits so hard in midlife, how it keeps you stuck in comparison and perfectionism, and why it's time to ditch the stilettos and stop shrinking. We also share our personal stories of growth, setbacks, vulnerability, and what it actually looks like to push through imposter feelings and get back in the arena. This one is heartfelt, funny, and packed with real tools you can use to build confidence, reframe your inner dialogue, and reclaim your space—because your worth is not up for debate.

 

Episode Highlights:

[0:00] - Kicking off with why imposter syndrome is so real for women in midlife
 [1:10] - Defining imposter syndrome and the mental trap it creates
 [2:34] - The impact of shifting identity and risk-taking at midlife
 [7:06] - Laura's story: inherited privilege and narrative excuses
 [15:08] - Perfectionism, performance pressure, and playing small
 [16:45] - The shift to embracing grit and a growth mindset
 [19:57] - Naming the struggle and the power of vulnerability
 [23:24] - Building a stack of evidence: celebrating micro wins
 [24:41] - Taking messy action and staying in the arena
 [26:35] - Rewriting the inner dialogue with self-compassion
 [27:12] - Recommended reads to help rewire imposter thinking
 [28:35] - Feeling fear means you're growing: normalizing discomfort
 [30:36] - Growing into big roles and owning your worth
 [32:01] - Ego strength vs. anxiety and visibility fears
 [33:43] - From cringe to confident: the social media journey
 [34:30] - Reflecting on each other's strengths and sharing the love

 

Links and Resources: 

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Colette Fehr:

Marc, welcome to insights from the couch, where real conversations meet real

Laura Bowman:

life. At midlife, we're Colette and Laura, two therapists and best friends, walking through the journey right alongside you, whether you're feeling stuck, restless or just unsure of what's next. This is a space for honest conversations, messy truths and meaningful change.

Colette Fehr:

And our midlife master class is now open. If you're looking to level up, get into action and make midlife the best season yet. Go to insights from the couch.org and join our wait list. Now let's dive in. Welcome back to insights from the couch. We're so glad you're here listening today as we're going to talk about imposter syndrome and overcoming it at midlife. This is something we women are so saddled with, and men never seem to struggle with, so unfair. But we're going to define it. We're going to talk about why it pops up even more now than ever, and how you can get it out of your life for God, let's dive in. Laura, what do you think this is such an important topic?

Laura Bowman:

It is an important topic. And I, I have so many clients that report this like, this is something that people, like women, literally come to therapy about, or it comes up in therapy all the time. And I guess for me, I was thinking about it because I knew we're going to talk about it. And I sort of break it into two, like large, like, roughly, large camps. And I feel like it's the women that are trapped outside the arena. Like, if you go back to Brene Brown's quote, where she said at the end of her second TED talk, I was gonna go in the arena when I was perfect, when I was bulletproof. But that day never comes. So it's like these women that are like, I'll go in when, you know, I'll but there's they're in their head constantly about, like they don't have the credential, or they never went to school for that, or who are they to want the thing? So they're outside the arena, and then they're the women that get inside the arena, and then they're saddled with a whole other like it never ends, because now it's like, I'm not as good as am I? Am I good enough? Should I be here? Is somebody going to tap me on the shoulder and ask me to leave. Yeah, I mean, so I see it as like, it just doesn't. It doesn't seem to get better, whether you're on the outside or the inside. It's something that can it's a mindset and a way of being that can hold, carry you

Colette Fehr:

through. Yes, and it can be overcome. So first of all, I feel like I have to mention that some estimates show as much as 75% of executive women who are super educated and qualified suffer from imposter syndrome. And let me just define it for a second. Imposter syndrome specifically is doubting your abilities, feeling like you're not good enough, feeling like what many women report psychologically, you're about to be discovered any day now. People are going to realize that you don't belong there. You're not really good enough. You're going to be outed, you're going to be humiliated, and you're going to be cast out. And this is not commensurate with the actual level of experience. So it's this sense that people have overestimated you, that you've somehow ended up in this position by luck. Men, on the other hand, tend to feel, even if they have no qualifications, you know, they sit with their legs spread, they take up space. They're like, I'm here. I know my shit. I have the most important voice in the room. We have five PhDs, like an MD, PhD, and we're like, I don't know if I should say something, because someone else might think differently. It's I'm exaggerating, but only slightly. I mean, whatever

Laura Bowman:

your political leanings, this just comes to mind of like Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. You know here Hillary Clinton is, like, her whole life is one calculated, intentional step after another, and like, Donald Trump's like, I'm here. I've got

Colette Fehr:

ideas. Show guy, I'm qualified to be president, which is such

Laura Bowman:

the way it is, because men will have literally one qualification or half a qualification, and they throw another hat in the ring.

Colette Fehr:

We're not yeah or none, and we're not saying men don't deserve to be in positions. We're not man haters here, or that men aren't often really qualified. This is just about women reclaiming our power and believing in ourselves. And you don't have to have five PhDs and an MD, PhD or whatever the hell to be qualified to be in the room. It's really about believing in your worth and your voice. And I think this does rear up a lot at midlife one, because many of us have been people pleasers, doubting ourselves, or, as you say, outside of the arena, for fear of not being perfect, not starting until we're perfect for so many years. But. Also at midlife, our identity is shifting. And if we're gonna take risks, we're gonna be putting ourselves in that arena and feeling like, all right, am I too old? You know, maybe some people feel like my looks aren't where they once were. Or maybe some women feel like, oh, all these other women have been in the career world forever. Who am I to do this? Who am I to take on a new role? Yeah, who am I? So what we want to do with today's episode is say all of us can struggle with this from time to time, and maybe we can share a little bit about how this has popped up in our own life, but also all of us can overcome this. There are some steps we're going to give you guys in this episode that will help make this a thing of the past, because we all deserve to do absolutely anything we want, and we're good enough by virtue of breathing,

Laura Bowman:

you know. And I that's one of the things that I think all of this, like podcasting and social media stuff, has sort of blown the lid off of, is this realization of like, oh, you really can do whatever you want. I mean, and you get to see so many different types of people doing different types of things. So it begins to percolate this idea of like, oh, wait, they're doing it, you know? And it's giving permission. I think it's giving, like a collective permission, like, if you want to take a shot, take a shot.

Colette Fehr:

I like that way of looking at it, because I think it can also work conversely, where you see so many examples that we get into that social comparison theory trap, which is that we're kind of wired to compare ourselves to others and focus on our deficiencies. So you see somebody looking flawless with their filters on in a leadership position, and you read people's bios. I mean, even if I read my own bio, I'm like, Who's that, right? Like, I sound way better. I'm like, That's not me. You read other people's bios, or you see what you're doing, and you feel less than and I think it can also shut you down.

Laura Bowman:

Oh, it, for sure can. But I think there's enough. I think everybody has popped online and seen somebody and they're like, what,

Colette Fehr:

yeah,

Laura Bowman:

you're doing it. I think I can do it. And, I mean, in my own life, I think I've just my version of this has been a lot of time outside the arena going, I'll go in when, you know, I have a lot I had when what like? When you tell yourself, when I have enough credentials, when I've had enough education, when I've done enough training,

Colette Fehr:

letters behind my name,

Laura Bowman:

you will never get enough training. And you'll go to these trainings, and you'll just find people who have done more training. I'm like, trained to death, right? Like, and you go there and you're like, Oh my God. I don't even know if I belong at the training, because everybody's done so much training. So it never ends. There's no end point to this. So I spent a lot of time, like, I'll go in when I have enough. I think even before that, like, I grew up, I guess, with, like, a lot of advantages and a lot of I guess I, you know, inherited wealth for a lack of better way to put it, and that shut me down, whereas that might boost some people up. I was like, who am I to? Like, go for this. Like, am I try? Like, I'm not even I don't know where that narrative came from, but it made me feel like I shouldn't be, that I shouldn't even be going for this, like that's so like

Colette Fehr:

wealth, what about being given advantages made you feel like you shouldn't go for it,

Laura Bowman:

like other people need it more than I do. I should just really like, I should just really be grateful for what I have and occupy my role and like and then, and also, I think it just was also another thing of like, what, yeah, like, maybe like, this is, am I even meant for that like, and isn't that so I'm asking for too much if I go for that. And also, I think it became a convenient excuse pattern for like, I don't need to, so I'm just gonna sit here and I'll just do and then I felt like a dilettante. And then that felt terrible. So it was like I was bouncing between, I need more. I'm not enough. Do I even deserve to so it was like me fighting me outside the arena.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, and, you know, you bring up a great point, because even though the story, in your case, might have particular narrative points around inherited wealth, the real heart of it, underneath it, is this self doubt that allows you to generate narrative excuses. Narrative excuses, yes, and I think what I want to emphasize to people is that when it's your narrative, it feels so true, because I grew up really motivated and excited to have a career and do things. 90s, and all through college, I wanted to be in the magazine business, and I wanted to be a writer, and I did these internships, and I got great internships, and I was super into it. I didn't really care how much money I made. I wanted to do something that I where I felt fulfilled, and I had a lot of energy around going for it and putting myself out there. But then whenever I'd get a job, I would very quickly feel like, oh my gosh, I'm like, so lucky to be here, and how did I get this job? And oh my gosh, I can't believe it. And I have to prove myself and prove myself and overly prove myself. And then, of course, my career ended only a few years in, and I became like a board rich housewife, I mean, a stay at home mom. And I'm not trying to devalue that job, but it wasn't really right for me, personally, not to have some kind of career and intellectual stimulation. And I learned that the hard way. And so I was then at war with myself, because I had no push factor to go do anything. There's things I could have done. I could have pushed I don't want to blame anyone else. I made that choice, but I then started to feel like, well, what would I do? Or I couldn't justify the amount of money I would make to Yes, so that's yeah,

Laura Bowman:

start

Colette Fehr:

right, and I couldn't figure out what it would be. And of course, the landscape has changed a lot. But for me, once, I had all those years out of the workplace when I got divorced and I had no money and I had to start a career from strat from scratch, because working a couple years right out of college, at that point, eight years out of the workforce, I was sort of unhireable. You know, my first job was in I took as an English teacher for 11th and 12th grade at a huge public school here where I operated more like a prison warden than a teacher. It was actually like that. Yeah, it was really intense. I got paid$25,000 a year to teach 11th and 12th grade English at a large public school

Laura Bowman:

here in Florida. We haven't talked enough about that phase.

Colette Fehr:

Oh God, it was, it's it was grim. And I was 31 so the students were really inappropriate with me. I had 160 students. I didn't have, you know, the IB or AP classes. It was wild. It was a great experience, but I didn't feel qualified for anything in particular, and yet, I did have skills, I did have an education, I did have talent. Sure, I needed to be back in the workforce. But I think my when I look back, my feeling about myself, even though there were some real obstacles that it took a little while to overcome, was not really the reality of what I had to offer in terms of talent, intelligence, capability. I was well educated even before I went back to grad school, so I sort of succeeded a bit despite myself, and I think that's the hard part, is that there are so many women even at the top, and even Oprah Winfrey has said, I have it too. Like, you see me this multi gazillionaire, but like, we're all it's what's going on in the mind.

Laura Bowman:

And I want to say is, like, it's the people that are at the top that feel this sometimes the worst most. Yeah, yeah. It's most acute in those like, high powered roles, especially where women are working around mostly men, there's a gender factor of like, I'm the only woman, or I'm one of a few women in the room, and am I being underestimated. Are people unhappy that I'm here? Yeah. So there's that whole layer too,

Colette Fehr:

yeah. And, you know, becoming therapist. I remember when I first, and I've shared this story with a lot of people, when I first became a therapist, you know, I was in grad school, we went through the same program. It took me four years because my kids were young and I was a single mom. It should have been a three year program. It was gruelingly intense, right? So much work. It's so experiential. I got a dual license. You know, you sit for these exams. It's ridiculously difficult to become a therapist. I think. I got certified in the EMDR, certified in Emotionally Focused couples therapy, which are like additional graduate programs. Yeah, I had all these letters behind my name, and I remember when I started my practice coming home and crying and being like, I can't believe people are coming to me. I don't feel like I know what to do. I don't know if I'm helping them, and I was just so St. Part of it was conscientiousness of wanting to do a good job and being new, but I really struggled. And, you know, other people just kind of go in and they don't really care. They feel like, Alright, whatever, however I show up is good enough. So I think some of this tends to connect to a little bit. Of anxiousness, conscientiousness, neuroticism, neuroticism. That was my next one. Exactly, exactly.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think where you grow up, too, I've talked a lot about on the podcast, but I had a very My mother was a performer when she was little, and she had a performance lens for us, like, she was like, kind of a child prodigy. So she was looking at her children going, like, what are you so good at? And it was a very it ended up being a very critical lens for me, where I realized that if I wasn't the best at something, I was kind of disappointing her. And it made me not want to play. It made me be like, if I'm not going to be like, super good at this, I don't want to play. And I stayed very tight to the things that I thought I was good at. And it just it showed up for me later in life, where it was like, if I wasn't certain I was good, I wasn't sure I was really willing to do the things that it took to get good, and that's been a major shift. Is that me too, that shift from like I've come fully baked, I am just so good at this thing. I'm such a natural to I'm willing to grow in something. And honestly, I'll tell you what it was. It was all three of my kids have learning issues. It was watching my kids learn how to learn that, like, flipped a complete switch in me, and I was like, Oh my God. I was like, they have overcome stuff and become like. Some of them have become, like, quite exceptional at what they do. But it was like they clawed their way there, they grew their way there.

Colette Fehr:

And that's the grit. We know. Grit is what it takes to succeed. You know, it's so fascinating because I didn't have that message for my parents and I had the same thing you did. The message for my parents is like, you're great at everything, like I suck at sports, and my dad would be like, You did a great job. Like, you almost hit the baseball and, like, I have no hand eye coordination. So I was so encouraged. Like, even if I was at a D level, my parents were like, Yay, Colette, she scooped in the toilet. Yes, like, everything I did was great. I felt very supported and really not criticized, but I think I absorbed it from the environment around me, that there was so much wherever I got it from. There was so much seeming perfection around me. And I got the idea too, that unless you are stellar, you don't don't play baseball, right? Don't embarrass yourself. Do the things you're good at, and this is what kept me from writing for 20 years. You know that, in part, and my life falling apart because I was in grad school for writing at the time, I got divorced, and I had to drop out when I got divorced, so I was trying to take action, you know? Because what you're talking about, the grit that you see in your kids. Confidence isn't the absence of insecurity or self doubt. It's taking action in the face of insecurity and self doubt. That's how you build your confidence. And I think what we've both learned that we're sharing with you guys is that most people, not all of us, are inner Olympians, or have you know, I don't have some oh my gosh, blinding light talent in something. And I always wished I remember when I said to you, I have no talents at all, because I thought unless I was like an opera singer or or something, that I could just be like, This is my thing, and I'm at this level that I shouldn't do any of it. And I think what we've both learned that we want to share with you all is just go do the thing, be a hot mess, don't have a credential, don't care, do things that put you in the arena. Some of them aren't going to work out, and in part, because you're going to discover you don't really want to do them, you're probably going to have a little bit of imposter syndrome. If you're stretching and growing, it's it's normal,

Laura Bowman:

totally. And, you know, the other thing that occurs to me is that the people who I think feel imposter syndrome the most are the people that are like most uncomfortable with their own vulnerability. They're what they there's that I heard somebody say this morning, and I wrote

Colette Fehr:

it. I don't know Laura, that I'm so different from that, and I feel like I've struggled with this, and I'm so comfortable,

Laura Bowman:

but you struggle, but you struggle openly, and you tend to, like, get through it, yeah, like, I mean, I feel like you struggle openly. That's one of the things that's helped me, is watch you just be so real about it. I think it's the people that go, I'm struggling. But it says perfectionism is fear and stilettos. That's a Liz Gilbert quote. I love that. And I think the more you're trying to, like, armor up and being like, I'm so good, I'm fine. Yeah, your experience is even

Colette Fehr:

worse. Well, and this is one of our. Top Tips, right? That we came up with these tools is to name it to your point. I do talk about and sometimes you can some, maybe some people will judge you. I don't know. I don't care. I feel like I am open about it the whole first year of my book contract. I mean, I'll see some people and they're like, remember how much you were falling apart at the beginning. It's like, a little bit annoying, like, try walking in my shoes for a minute. You know, out of nowhere, I get this huge six figure book deal with the biggest publisher in the world. After years of being like, I'm not a good enough writer, it was super overwhelming, and I had to shut down my business not make any money. I didn't know what I was doing. Nobody was explaining things to me. I mean, I think it was pretty normal to have imposter syndrome, but I did really get through it because I was open about it. I was like, You're right, I'm freaked out. I don't know what I'm doing. I was crying every day. I almost couldn't even be excited at first, because I was so afraid that I wasn't going to be able to deliver here. These people had said, your book is good enough to be published. We're going to pay you even though you have no platform. And I was like, Yes, I'm going for it. I'm going for it. And the minute I got it, there was an oh shit moment. Now what now? How am I going to deliver? And what if they all discover that I'm really not that good of a writer, or my books not good enough? Or what if my peers in the field judge me? They don't agree? I mean, all those thoughts popped up, but I got you

Laura Bowman:

engaged. You stayed engaged in the fear. And I guess I'm suggesting is worse. You talked about it. The only worst version of that is the person who's feeling all of that and trying to still right wobble around in their stilettos. I agree. Yeah, that's then they come to therapy and they're like, I'm a mess, but I can't even let anybody know I'm a mess,

Colette Fehr:

right? And that's where perfectionism can couple up with imposter syndrome and really shut you down. Then you're in your stilettos and you're kind of trapped in your stilettos, in the air.

Laura Bowman:

You've got a nasty blister in your stilettos, but she can't take them off.

Colette Fehr:

So I think what we're saying here is one of the keys to overcoming this is Get real. Be in dialog, open up to your friends or a friend or a therapist, at least one safe person, because you're going to discover most likely that other women in your life, some of whom you may look at and think, oh, they don't feel this way. If you're vulnerable first, that tends to invite vulnerability. And you'll find that people you know, who seem like they don't have imposter syndrome do, and it can be so bonding and healing, just to get it out loud, yeah.

Laura Bowman:

And then there's another thing that I was when I was researching imposter syndrome, it's the attribution bias. Were you getting this? Like, where people, even, when they when they do something, well, they can't take credit for it, yeah. But when they do make a mistake, they that's disproportionate over identify, yeah. So it's that, it's like, can you take your your wins? Can you celebrate yourself? You know, when even it's just these micro wins. Can you just be present with those?

Colette Fehr:

And I think we have to force ourselves to look at those wins. Write them down, keep track of all the things you've done, right, even things. It doesn't have to be career, you know? It can be you redecorated a room like anything you've done. You were a good listening ear for a friend. You helped your kid fill out an apple. I mean, it could be anything and everything, but we're we're so multi faceted and multi talented, and we're so wired for negativity, just as a human species, that I think we have to be more intentional in listing out and focusing on what we've done.

Laura Bowman:

Well, yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. I mean, and there's Alex hermosi, who's like a business guy, always says that the only way you're going to feel good is if you build a stack of irrefutable evidence, which sounds very harsh, right? But he's right to some extent, and I am always like somebody who loves a little bit of evidence, but I think what we're saying is get on the field and play, even if you have to be in that learning, growing phase for a long while. That's the only way you get to build a stack of irrefutable evidence, right?

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, yeah. And the only way you build your confidence and you start to really quash imposter syndrome, I think, is getting in the arena, taking risks, yes, getting more comfortable with failure and learning that you don't have to be the most talented. You don't have to be the smartest. You don't have to have the degrees. You really don't. You have to be willing to willing. That's a mess. Yeah, and that's what I remember. That's a big part of my TEDx talk. Obviously, in that I'm talking about the relationship context, speaking up. But it's the same thing, feel the fear as Susan Jeffrey is my favorite psychology book from 30 years ago, feel the fear and do it anyway. That's how we get out of this. If 75% of us are struggling with imposter syndrome, there's something to this that's just foundational to the human experience and how society has treated women, but we can help each other out of it. And I think another great tip is the work of Kristen Neff, and I think we're going to do an episode on this, eventually too self compassion, but really changing the way you talk to yourself, first, normalizing that self doubt, insecurity, fear, feeling like a fraud. To some degree, this is just so normal, so allow it to be there. But then how do you talk back to it? Do you talk back to yourself and say, I got to get in my stilettos and hide this because this is shameful. Or suck it up, Laura, get your shit together and get out there and prove to people that they should have hired you. Or do you say this is a moment of suffering. Other women in the world are struggling with imposter syndrome right now too. Let me be connected to those people and know my feelings are normal and that I can do this. Yeah, gentle and tender.

Laura Bowman:

I love that gentleness is always the way to go. And finally, I think if you need to reboot your mindset, because I've had to reboot mine several times throughout the years. Read Carol Dweck growth mindset book. I just think, get out of that fixed mindset that either you're good or you're not right, and get into like, falling in love with the process. It's the only way, it's the only way. It's the only way to have joy. Because this can the grit component, but also the like, every day there's like, you're kind of doing the thing,

Colette Fehr:

yes, and I'm looking up right now as you're talking, I want to recommend when I got my book contract and I realized I hadn't felt I'm trying to find it while we're on the pod here, I have two books I want to recommend. If I don't find it quickly, I'll just put it we'll put it in the show notes. But I realized I hadn't felt imposter syndrome in a while, and suddenly I was feeling it again. And so of course, I decided to like read whatever I could to help me overcome and it actually did really help. I think in part, these books helped because I just felt so connected to the fact that so many other people are going through the same thing, and that it's okay. That is so comforting, that universality. And I also want to say that a lot of times, if you're feeling imposter syndrome, it means you're taking a risk, you're putting yourself into a new experience, you are stepping in the arena, and that is such a win. If you're not growing, you're probably going to feel perfectly content, right? But that voice that says, Oh no, you don't know what you're doing, or you're not ready, or I'll do that when that's just trying to protect you from this uncomfortable soup of emotions that you can totally get through with willingness,

Laura Bowman:

yes, and I completely agree. I would rather feel any feeling Other than that, like stew of on we and I'll do it when. And I don't know if I'm that of standing outside of the arena, like fretting and or or doing nothing, hunting and going, I'll do it when. I'll do it later, or I'll do it after. I get this thing. I don't ever want to feel that. I'd rather be a mess in the arena.

Colette Fehr:

I agree, and I found the books, okay, good. All right, the imposter cure and then the other one. Thanks for the feedback, the science and art of receiving feedback. Well, by Douglas stone and Sheila hen, they helped me so much just to read the normalcy and understand it and know that it meant I'm in the arena. Yep. So whatever it is you want to do, get in the arena and know that if some imposter syndrome pops up for you, especially at midlife, it's really normal. As we're taking new risks. Our identities are shifting, and some of us may have been feeling certain insecurities that we haven't challenged because we've been hiding and narrating ourselves away from them, and now is the time to step into those things and know you don't have to be perfect. You just have to be willing to do it. And you have the grit to persevere, yeah?

Laura Bowman:

And I think I watched clients. I watched one client, who's a little younger, get a job that was probably a little outside of her zone of tolerance. It was a big job. It was a great job for her, and she has had to take the last two years to grow into that job, yeah, but that's the coolest thing in that that's when imposter syndrome will show up the most is when you're a little you're in a big arena, when you get a six figure book deal, when you get a job that you like, you're not sure, like, why'd they hire me, right? But how cool you get to grow into

Colette Fehr:

that? And you're right. I did grow into it. Now it just feels normal to me? Yeah, I feel like I do deserve to be here. I feel like I wrote a great book. I feel like I deserved my contract. But I didn't start out that way. I had a lot of fretting, a lot of anxiety, a lot of panic, and a lot of fears hijacking my mind with worst case scenarios among them, the fear that I was going to humiliate myself in front of the world because I would be discovered to be insufficient. And, you know, I'm not the only one who's felt that way, but by staying in the arena, I got to the other side.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, and I it's funny, I was thinking just pinging as we're talking about it, and I know we're going to land the plane early today, but I do a lot of this work with young people. Like I have a lot of people that are training to be lawyers and that I work with, and so it's like a lot of building ego strength. You know, it's these gifted kids that are now going to get their ass kicked on like a cur a class curve or and I do this with young people all the time, but I think it applies just as much to us. Is like, I'm always talking to my young people about building ego strength, and I want to talk to women our age about, you're always working on building that ego strength and that ego flexibility, yeah, and that's the coolest thing

Colette Fehr:

it is. And I think sometimes it because I feel like I have ego strength. So I think sometimes it's a lack of ego strength, and sometimes, at least for me, it was really more neuroticism and anxiety, because I do feel, I don't feel like, really truly in my core, I don't feel like I feel not good enough. I think it's it's getting into that place of visibility that gave me tremendous anxiety, or gave a part of me tremendous anxiety, yeah, feeling like the spotlight effect, feeling like all eyes are are on you, when really nobody gives a shit. Go get muddy and play in the sandbox. Nobody's watching as much as you think. Yeah, you know, that's another thing with imposter syndrome. I'm on social media, whoring myself out every day on these videos. I don't even give it two thoughts anymore. I really think in the beginning, I felt so self conscious, I felt so awkward. I felt like everyone was watching. You know, even what you said to me yesterday, Oh, are we annoying people? I don't even think about that anymore. I don't care if I'm annoying people. Don't watch me. I just I got through it at the beginning, it felt painfully self conscious, and I felt like everybody was going, why is this woman on here again? Who does she think she is? She must be a narcissist. That's what I thought. I feared everyone would think of me. Now I'm like, Look, I'm doing this is the way it goes these days. This is what you have to be and do if you want to promote yourself, sell books, sell courses. You know, it's just

Laura Bowman:

the way it works. So you can't get anywhere if you're not willing to be cringe, right? Like cringe is the cost of admission,

Colette Fehr:

okay, but I don't feel cringe at all, okay, but that's what a lot of people do initially raise I did at the beginning, yeah, but that's my point. Is that it doesn't whatever. The thing is, it's not gonna feel cringe. It's not gonna eventually you're gonna feel like you deserve your seat, so don't let it turn you away just because it feels bad or you have imposter syndrome. And I think that's what so many women are doing, right? They're out there killing it, going after their dreams, but inside, we all feel a little is today, the day I get

Laura Bowman:

found out, and so talk to somebody like, talk to steal, like, don't, don't, stay stuck in your stilettos. Like, talk to somebody about it and express

Colette Fehr:

it, whether it's a good friend that you feel comfortable with, a family member, a therapist, find at least one person that you can say, I'm really struggling with this. Because also, if you hear from somebody how they see you, you know that can be really affirming, too. Yeah, oh, for sure, for sure, right? We see each other's strengths and can validate them more easily than we can.

Laura Bowman:

This is why we do groups, right? This is why women in groups are so powerful, because we can. I wrote about this on. Social media this weekend is we can see the strengths in other people more quickly than we can see them in ourselves.

Colette Fehr:

This is why we have our midlife master class. Yeah, part of it is over the magic of that imposter syndrome and working in the group modality. Okay, this is so good to revisit and so important for us to be talking about. So thanks for listening, you guys. We'll link these books in the show notes for you, the one Laura mentioned, the ones I mentioned, and check out our website, insights from the couch.org, where we have lots of resources for you. We have our seven skills to master midlife. That'll get you started on whatever journey you're on. And come join our online community, the chat you can find that on our website too, insights from the couch.org. We want to hear from you know, your questions, your thoughts, so reach out to us and we will see you next time.

Unknown:

Bye, guys. You.