Insights from the Couch - Real Talk for Women at Midlife

Ep.68: Disappointing Affirmations: The Sarcastic Self-Help You Didn't Know You Needed with Dave Tarnowski

• Colette Fehr, Laura Bowman • Season 6 • Episode 68

Share episode

 We’re thrilled to bring you this heartfelt and hilarious conversation with Dave Tarnowski—author, creative force behind the Instagram phenomenon Disappointing Affirmations, and the man redefining self-help with a dose of sharp wit and raw honesty. With over 2.5 million followers, Dave’s take on mental health, neurodivergence, grief, and healing resonates deeply—and this episode is no exception.

Together, we explore Dave’s late-in-life diagnoses of bipolar disorder and ADHD, his journey through therapy, sobriety, and grief, and how humor became his lifeline. We dive into the making of his newest book, Sorry in Advance for Making Things Weird, and talk about what it means to “do the work”—even when it sucks. If you’ve ever felt like you’re falling apart while still managing to laugh, this episode will make you feel seen, heard, and a little more okay with not being okay.

 

Episode Highlights:

[1:19] – Dave shares the origin story of Disappointing Affirmations and how his mental health journey shaped his work.
[3:04] – Getting diagnosed with bipolar disorder and ADHD later in life.
[5:03] – The neurodivergent mind: creativity, sensitivity, and deep knowing.
[7:43] – Using humor to bring healing to heavy emotions.
[9:52] – Why negative thoughts deserve affirmation too.
[13:04] – Medication trials, missteps, and finally finding a fit.
[15:31] – From unfinished novels to viral memes: how the Instagram page was born.
[21:26] – The power of dark humor, cynicism, and embracing absurdity.
[23:00] – Creating a safe space for all—why Dave stays out of divisive commentary.
[26:17] – Generational therapy gaps and shifting the mental health narrative.
[29:19] – What it means to actually do the work in therapy.
[33:38] – Sibling trauma, family hierarchy, and navigating long-standing dynamics.
[38:35] – Grief, loss, and finally facing what we try to avoid.
[42:22] – What's inside the new book—and why it goes deeper than the first.
[46:13] – Where to find Dave’s books, cards, and more.
[48:13] – The importance of men accessing therapy and emotional healing.

 

Links and Resources: 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/disappointingaffirmations 

Dave Tarnowski’s book Disappointing Affirmations 

Dave Tarnowski’s book

Pre-order The Cost of Quiet now! Colette’s new book, The Cost of Quiet: How to Have the Hard Conversations that Create Secure, Lasting Love, launches February 3rd. Secure your copy today and get VIP bonuses available only before launch day. https://www.colettejanefehr.com/new-book

🎙️ Love the podcast? Come talk about episodes with us inside The Midlife Chat. It’s a free, private community just for women at midlife who want to keep these conversations going. We’ve created this space for real talk, fresh resources, and honest connection—where you can share ideas and resources, ask questions, and get support from women navigating the same season. Come join us—we’d love to have you!

👉 Join The Midlife Chat here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/795863256460970/

Pre-order The Cost of Quiet now! Colette’s new book, The Cost of Quiet: How to Have the Hard Conversations that Create Secure, Lasting Love, launches February 3rd. Secure your copy today and get VIP bonuses available only before launch day.

Colette Fehr:

Marc, welcome to insights from the couch, where real conversations meet real

Laura Bowman:

life. At midlife, we're Colette and Laura, two therapists and best friends, walking through the journey right alongside you, whether you're feeling stuck, restless or just unsure of what's next. This is a space for honest conversations, messy truths and meaningful change.

Colette Fehr:

And our midlife master class is now open. If you're looking to level up, get into action and make midlife the best season yet. Go to insights from the couch.org and join our wait list. Now let's dive in. All right, you guys, we are so excited today I feel like I have to hold up this book as I say hello to Dave turnowski, the renowned author of disappointing affirmations and just out now, sorry in advance for making things weird, which is also a collection of even more disappointing affirmations and some fan favorites. And of course, he's a huge Instagram sensation, 2.5 million followers. Your stuff is so popular because it resonates with the human experience. So we are thrilled to have you here today, and can't wait to dig in.

Dave Tarnowski:

I so appreciate being invited. Thank you so much. Colette and Laura.

Colette Fehr:

Appreciate. This is going to be so great. So one of the things I loved when in addition to how funny you are and how spot on everything, is you write a very vulnerable intro in your book about your own experience with mental health, and you know that you're kind of your mantras, it's okay to not be okay, which I think is so important. Can you start out just by telling us a little bit about your story and your journey?

Dave Tarnowski:

Oh, man, it's, it's been, it's been quite the journey. And it just, it continues. You know, it's never ending. Thing I just actually, today I'm two months sober, so congratulations. Thank you huge. And this, it's a big part of this journey, because I had, you know, I deal with bipolar disorder and ADHD, so those are my two crosses to bear, and with that, you know, I also have tendency to drink, and so sure, I just had to get that out of my life. But no, it's, it's been, my mental health journey has been quite interesting, you know, so something that I always knew that there was something there, you know, I just couldn't put my finger on it. When I finally got diagnosed as bipolar. This was late in life. This was I was 42 Wow, yeah.

Colette Fehr:

This was not when you were young, not when you were in early 20s, or,

Dave Tarnowski:

no, we're talking five years ago. And, wow, yeah, I mean literally during the pandemic, I was just like, oh, okay, great. You know it's it's good to know that

Laura Bowman:

piece of information I might have wanted earlier.

Dave Tarnowski:

But you know it was good to know, like, when I got the diagnosis, I just remember reading up on it and just being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. I could totally see those things. And then what I found interesting, and this is part of what I talk about in the second book, The Internet basically diagnosed me with ADHD. So I would make different posts. I can't think of one offhand right now, but and someone would comment like, ADHD vibes. And so I spoke to my therapist, and I was like, you know, I know I've got this one thing, but is it possible to have, you know, several things, of course. So I took the test and scored off the charts. And so, like, yeah, okay, so, so now it's like, which is, which it's and that's one, one of the hardest things to tell with the the journey of, you know, and neuro divergence, and those are the people who I really speak to the most. I think with this, I kind of have found my tribe, and then a long time ago, you know, I love my neuro divergence, you know, I I think a lot of what I write speaks to that totally.

Laura Bowman:

I mean, I'm somebody who works a lot with neuro divergent groups and just the OCD, ADHD, ASD, bipolar. I mean, there's all those things dance together, but the other piece of of individuals like that is they often come with, like wildly creative and like sensitive souls and intelligence. Yeah. Yeah, so has that been your own experience, too?

Dave Tarnowski:

Um, in a way, you know, it's like, it's, it's hard for me to speak of myself on those terms for like, you know, it's like, regardless of how good I might feel about what it is that I do, I'm just like, I'm always just sort of like, bashful about it, like, I'm happy that it's resonated with so many people the way that it has. I always walk a fine line with these things, though, because it's like you could go from, you know, satire, because the way I the way I look at what I do with the with the disappointing affirmation, is it's kind of like positive affirmations will just tell you something to just make you feel, whatever, like everything's gonna be okay, right? I always like to add that second part, you know, that second layer that smack in the face of, like, Yeah, but it's really gonna suck also, and, and so you kind of look at it, and it reframes it, I think, in a different way. And I think so much about how we think about ourselves, you know, reframing can help in so many different ways. You know, like you, it's I, I hate using terms of like you're a piece of shit, you know? I I use that for a comical effect more than anything, you know. I mean, there are pieces of shit out there, but, you know, but you know, if they say you're being a piece of shit, mainly, I'm calling myself out on that too, because all of these are like, however I'm feeling at the time. It gives the reader or gives the viewer something to sort of SNAP themselves out of whatever they might be in. You know? If, if you are wanting to give up, and someone tells you, Well, then just give up, you'd be like, Well, no, I'm not gonna do that, you know, right? So it's yeah. It's reverse psychology in a lot of ways. It's yeah, yeah.

Laura Bowman:

You know, my Colette, like, introduced me to your book, and I opened it up, and I read the first, the first few of them, and I just, I just, like, laughed on, like, a deep, sort of guttural level, like, of that knowing. And it it paradoxically just made space, like it made space for me to be like, I feel so like, that's exactly what like part of my brain was gonna say next. And it's that sort of absurdity that, like lets you into yourself on a in a deeper way. So I think it's just a genius little bit.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, it's the truth with the humor that I think is so healing and restorative. I mean, I just want to give an example for anyone who hasn't seen your stuff yet, yeah, like, here's one stop, and if you can, we can see it, because this is a lot of people watch, right? Stop. So I'll read it, and then I'll show it. Stop overthinking you are the only one who cares. I mean, it's so true, right? And then I love just be yourself, but not your real self. No one wants to see that shit.

Unknown:

Yes, you know

Colette Fehr:

it's and the whole book is filled with, Okay, here's one more. I could read the whole book on the podcast. It's not imposter syndrome. You really do suck at everything, right? And it's just like, you know, I think I love that you say in both the intro of this and I saw it also in the intro for the new book that like negative thoughts, negative feelings need affirmation too. This is part of the human experience, and I think this is what a lot of people get wrong, because we laugh about no one wants to see that shit or stop making people uncomfortable with your painful emotions. But what we notice as therapists, when Laura and I get together, we sit in a restaurant, we cry, we talk about all our painful shit, right? We're so comfortable in the messy feelings, but most people aren't. People want to avoid all of that, and when you're suffering and struggling, you get a lot of messages from society. You even mentioned, you know, telling people who are depressed, oh, just go exercise like it's just so tone deaf. Not that exercise isn't good, but it's so tone deaf for where that person is. And we're so averse and afraid of painful feelings, but we've really got to embrace it and when we can be honest about it, but also laugh about how absurd and hard and sometimes filled with suffering life is, it's actually very healing.

Dave Tarnowski:

Thank you. Yeah, it's, it's, it's about meeting people where they are, not where they want to be, not where everybody tells you that. You should be, you know, I always, you know, and I will totally credit my ex for putting this into my vocabulary. But I, you know, she made me very anti should, you know, she's like, take that should word right out, you know, shoulding all over yourself. Yes, exactly, exactly. And so, you know, I jokingly, you know, I, I, I referred to the disappointing affirmation set as a lot of things. But one of the things is, I take my 10 years of therapy and I pass the savings on to you, like, I like, whatever nuggets that I can get, you know, out of that. And I mean, I, I love therapy. I mean, I, I would not be talking to you right now, were it not for the many therapists I've had over the past 10 years. You know, of just being vulnerable because I was always a sensitive kid. I remember it was when I was growing up. It was a derogatory term, Oh, you're so sensitive, you know, and just be like, oh, you know, something wrong with me there. There's something wrong with me, you know, I'm bad for being sensitive. It took me many, many years of, you know, really like doing the work, and, you know, understanding that it's like, yeah, I'm glad I am that person. I'm glad that if I didn't have that sensitivity, I don't think I would have gone down the path towards self awareness and, you know, self acceptance. And I mean, I still can't accept a lot of things about myself, but, you know, I've certainly come a long way as far as being like, you know what it's like those those moments when I'm going out of my head, because I sort of feel like, Oh my God, I need to do something. I have to remind myself in those moments, give yourself some grace. You know, it's like you don't need to do everything at the same time. You know, when you give yourself a break, it'll be there when you get back to it.

Colette Fehr:

I'm so glad you said, No, not at all. I think actually, that's something our listeners and all of us really need to hear over and over again. So much of it is a process of just reminding ourselves, you know, it's okay, it's okay not to get it all done. You're doing a good job. You know, like giving ourselves grace, self compassion, those things are so healing. It's some of the simple daily practices that we all need to implement more, right? So what I'm curious to Dave, like when you said you all these years you maybe you knew there was something with the bipolar disorder symptoms, and then, of course, you had ADHD and that hadn't been diagnosed. So how did you cope with those things before you even knew that those diagnoses were there.

Dave Tarnowski:

I was getting Xanax from friends, and it was like, I can remember clearly my first Xanax. And it was just like, it immediately fixed something for a moment. Yeah, you know, and yeah, it was just sort of like, okay, so let me go to my doctor and, you know, talk to my doctor about it. But my doctor, my I went to my primary at the time she and this was 2019, she said, Well, I can't diagnose, but I can prescribe. So what do you want?

Laura Bowman:

Oh, no, that was not the right answer, not

Dave Tarnowski:

the right answer. But I was like, Well, I've heard of Prozac, so maybe we can start on that. And I was on that for a year, and it was just terrible. It was just not, not what I needed. And it was many, many trial and error years. I don't think I got to my final round of treatment, where I am now, where I feel comfortable, you know, with this treatment, just just over the last couple of years. So it was, it was a good three year trial and error thing that's that's another thing to speak to, just as far as the audience goes, if you're going through medication after medication and it's just not working for you, don't stop, you know, like, certainly stop medications that you know aren't working, But there's so many you just have to find that right combination that works for you.

Colette Fehr:

It's so true, and it can be a long journey. In fact, it is for most people to figure out the right combination that works for your brain and your wiring, and you also went through a divorce during the midst of all this.

Dave Tarnowski:

Yeah, yeah, it was my, my second divorce. Actually, I don't feel so bad about it, too. People thought I was worth, you know, marrying So, yeah, I prefer to look at it like that, yeah. See, so I'm not that much of a piece of shit, but

Laura Bowman:

you know that much so tell me, like, how you got started with like, this, this Instagram page. Like, what was the first thing you started to do with these affirmations?

Dave Tarnowski:

It was a long road to this. From when I was 14 years old, I was going to be a novelist, and that's all I was ever going to be. And I started writing my first novel, and I kept writing that first novel, I kept writing my first novel, and that 10 unfinished novels later, and my 30s, and I'm just like, What the hell am I doing? And this was 2014 memes were just starting to really be a thing in, you know, pop culture. And I thought, let me try my hand at them. I was getting really tired of doing things that were very, uh, niche, like they were, you know, they were really popular amongst a very select group of people, you know, and I was looking towards, you know, maybe getting into something that could become something larger, like I had something in the back of my mind, and I wasn't sure what it was. All I knew was I was tired of what I had been doing. So I'm up in New York, and I decided to go upstate New York, which is very, very beautiful love, and the, I don't know if you've ever heard of the Hudson Valley up there, yeah, Westchester. Okay, great, excellent. So there was this, it's like, it's sort of a meditation treat retreat. It's kind of like just a very spiritual kind of place. And so I went there for a week, and it was wonderful. I took my phone, I put it in the drawer of the room, and I only looked at it to check what time it was. I refused to go on. I took books with me. I just sat, I read, I meditated. It's on this nice little campus, and there's a clubhouse, and there's a bookstore, and I spent hours a day in that bookstore just enjoying the place and browsing. And one thing that must have seeped into me was the affirmations, because there were a lot of like positive affirmation stuff in that bookstore. And so after that vacation, something just clicked, you know, and I just sort of found this thing and what really made it happen. So all of the memes that I had made before this, I was using other people's work, so it's like, you know, regular meme is just somebody else's photo, and then you put your words on top of it. I wanted to make this completely my own. My ex and I went on seven vacations, eight vacations during our time together, and I took photos on all of them. And so I was just like, I have the scenic backgrounds for these things, and so I started using them, and that just became disappointing. Affirmations from there just, and it was crazy, because I remember the page, and I was just, I was just trying something out. It started in July of 2022 can't believe it's been three years now. I think in August of 2022 I had, like, my first big viral hit, and the page just sort of started exploding, and it was like nothing I had ever experienced. And and then suddenly I have a book deal. And it was just like, just insane,

Colette Fehr:

absolutely, yeah, you have all kinds of not only do you have that, but you have a game, you have postcards,

Dave Tarnowski:

stickers, so much stuff, so much my my publisher, and that's that's part of why I went with them, so when it was so funny. So if I could just go back and just tell you, like, a little bit about the story, because I'm just sort of like, it's been a while since I talked about this. So I started the page in July, had that first big thing in August, and then I got this message from someone at a small like an independent publisher in England, and they were offer. Ring book deal, right? And it was for nothing, you know. And I remember looking at this and being like, whatever, I don't know, but it was a start. And there was a friend that had at the time that I reached out to, and I was just like, Do you know any literary agents? And she's like, I'll introduce you to mine. And so, like, literally, October 1 I signed with my agent, so it was just like, bing, bing, bing. And then we had an option for the book and Chronicle Books who I ended up going with. What I really loved about them was, and, you know, I'm sure you've noticed from from their stuff, it's good quality. I mean, like, they really put their all into a pretty

Colette Fehr:

product. Yeah, it's, it's, it's really nicely done, yeah, yeah.

Dave Tarnowski:

And that's one, one of the things that I love about this is Book Two comes in, yeah, it's over here. It's a heftier book. It's nice. It's, yeah, I will, I will save that for later. I'm jumping ahead.

Colette Fehr:

That's okay, no, and I'm glad you're showing the book, because ours are on our copies are on their way. Oh, still haven't got them. Okay, yeah, yeah. But we have the digital, we have the digital, yeah, but I'll be putting your new book on my coffee table too. Yeah?

Laura Bowman:

I want it right, actually, on my nightstand, because I need that sort of, like, boost. I mean, your work reminds me of, I remember when my kids were little.

Dave Tarnowski:

Did you ever guys watch SpongeBob? I did not know. I don't want to make the

Laura Bowman:

reference if you don't know, but like, SpongeBob it's a very like adult tone comedy. SpongeBob is your toxic positivity character, so happy everything's gonna be great. And then Squidward is like the cynical everything sucks, but it's so funny. Like, I mean, it's so funny. And I remember, like, parents of kids my age were like, we don't let our kids watch SpongeBob because it's so cynical. And I'm like, I don't even want to know people like you, like I I just like, if, like, that absurd piece of life is the thing that is that that humor is the thing that, like helps you to keep going. I think that's why I want it on my nightstand.

Dave Tarnowski:

I appreciate that. Yeah, I think we need a bit of cynicism in our lives. I mean, especially, you know, in this day and age, you know, the way things have been going have been weird. I'm trying not to pay attention much, you know, it's, you know, so you just

Colette Fehr:

kind of have to block some of it out, because there's, it's so it can be so overwhelming and so depressing and scary even, yeah, you know,

Dave Tarnowski:

yeah, that's, that's why one of the things I always skirt the issue, because it's like, it's something that I know some people want me to talk about. But one of the things that I look at my page as is, it's a safe haven for people who need it. And I don't want to start saying, you know, oh, I'm, you know, just for one or the other, you know, it's like, I kind of want it to be, yeah, because we all need a safe space, you know, regardless of what we're going through. I mean, maybe now more than ever, you know. And, yeah, one of the things that frustrates me the most is getting through to the older generation. Yeah, because my generation is probably one of the first generations where therapy was okay, you know, it's it's stud, it's suddenly like the stigma was less, you know, and more and more people, and plus, it was just healthcare started taking it more seriously. And so it kind of reached this, this critical mass over what, maybe the last decade or two, you know, where really, I think

Colette Fehr:

there's a big shift, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Dave Tarnowski:

but like my parents, oh, my God, I would love for them to go talk to people. It would be so amazing if they would. But that's just not

Colette Fehr:

when I decided to become a therapist after my divorce, 20 years ago, my whole family was like, why would you do that? Go be a lawyer. That's what you because the world needs another one of those, right? Well, I mean, my mom's an attorney, and I think they thought some of my skill sets would be good for that job, that I would make more money or and of course, I had no interest in being a lawyer. Whatsoever. No offense to lawyers, just it isn't for me, but their their faces, their look like, why would you want to be in mental health, you know? And I just grew up in one of those people.

Dave Tarnowski:

Yeah, it's not even a thought, right, right?

Colette Fehr:

And I think there was a thought that I grew up with. Like I said, I grew up in Westchester County, and I'm going to be 52 here. Actually, when this episode drops, I will be 52 Happy birthday. Thank you. Thank you. October 3, so and very proud of it. But when I was young, I didn't know anybody who went to therapy. Nobody in my family went to therapy. I thought of therapy as something you did if you were like crazy. That was my initial thought. So I do think those older generations, it's very much grin and bear it, you know, just muscle your way through, shove your feelings down, keep on trucking. And fortunately, now we're realizing that we do need to talk about things. We do need each other. People need help. That's okay. It's normal. It's actually a very positive thing, and that's one of the changes in the world I'm so grateful for.

Dave Tarnowski:

Yeah, me too. It's like, as long as there are enough people who have a willingness to show up, you know, to, I don't want to say, preach the gospel of therapy, but, you know, it's just it did so much for me, you know. And I mean, I how I really look, look at it, and I think I touched upon this and the intro to the first book, it's funny. It's like dealing with with the new one now. It's like the old one is so foreign to me at this point. But, yeah, but what one thing that I always look at, you know, therapy as is, it's just excavation, right? And so each time you you have a meeting, you till the ground. You, you know, you till that soil a little bit. And then, oh, look, I found this thing, or, you know, and suddenly you're crying. And you don't know why you're crying, but it was just that thing that was just like holding this it was holding this space in you that suddenly released, you know, and you don't know what to do with that emotion. And I mean, it's those moments that make therapy for me, you know, it's, it's like to go back to the older generation, like my mother loves to do paint by number stuff, right? Like, that is the way that she relaxes, right? Because she's, God bless her. She's in her mid 70s, but she'll say things like, that's my therapy. And I'm like, yeah, yeah,

Laura Bowman:

it's not the same. It's beautifully put though, like, I love that. You really appreciate the process of therapy, because I think so many people that if they don't do well with therapy, it's because they're looking for like a really tangible outcome, and they just don't ever get in, they don't ever really settle into the process. And it is a process,

Dave Tarnowski:

I think, for me, what it really was, and my first couple of therapists will probably definitely, definitely attest to it not probably, is I was very much a blah kind of patient. I came in and I just unloaded whatever was going on in my head during that day, or whatever I was going through, and then sort through the shit, you know, like one of them she she was like, literally, every day you come in here and you just, like, you fill up this bag of things, and then you just leave, you know, and I'm here, like, holding this bag of shit. She didn't say that, but, you know, it took me a while to go from that kind of patient to, you know, now I'm getting into the groove. And, you know, not that there are levels. You know, you don't get, like, black belt patient. You know, that that would be really cool, though, if, if that were something, you know,

Laura Bowman:

I think there are levels, though, yeah. I mean, I do think that Well, yeah, when people have enough experience with therapy, they know themselves well enough they can tolerate like, different levels of things. Even as a Therap therapist, when I train like, there's certain modalities that are harder for me to access, you know, and like, I have to build almost like I have to build capacity to get into those modalities. And I just, I think that everybody has to build that pro, you know, that capacity within

Colette Fehr:

what I notice is people come in, and some people, you know, depending on what you're accustomed to, how you've grown up, where your own comfort level is with introspect. And your own inner life and your own emotions, some people come in and they really are at the surface. They want to be here. They just haven't gone deeper. So they don't they're not resistant. They just not there yet. And, you know, we're always hoping to try to go deeper, because that's where, and getting into the body and getting a little more experiential, because that's where so much change and transformation, and, as you beautifully say, excavation, where you find those little nuggets that are so transformative. I think it's a perfect metaphor. And other people, you know, I mostly work with couples, so sometimes I'll get couples that come in and I can tell that they've both done therapy, you know, they're already ready to work at a level of inner work, because they've been excavating, and they've been doing that some other people, you know, they want to come in and just talk about the surface level of the argument, and that's they haven't gone deeper yet. So it is, I think there are levels. We're just not giving people designation.

Dave Tarnowski:

Yeah, yeah, no, totally like i You made me think of one moment, and this was fairly early on. So, so my, my ex, she, she was the one who convinced me to go to therapy, because she had been going to therapy for over a decade, I think, before we met and and then she and I did couples therapy together. It was just so much therapy, so I learned a lot. But, you know, at one point I was in the couple's therapy, and they kept talking about doing the work, doing the work, and I just yelled out. I was like, what is the work? Because before and that story, are we talking about? But that's the weird thing about doing the work is you don't know what the work is until you're doing the work. It's like, you know the first rule about fight club is you do not talk about, you do not talk about the work. The work finds you. And there is a moment where all of a sudden it's just like, oh, shit, we're doing the work. Oh, that's why I'm like this, you know. And then bing, bing, bing, bing, you know, and and then I think there's, there's, there are, like you were saying that you're there are levels, Laura, when you get to a certain level where you're okay with yourself, and then you can start to really work on, yeah, how you are in relationship to others, particularly to others Who trigger you, you know people who you grew up with, people you know your parents, your grandparents, your siblings. You know I've got two brothers. They're older than I am. I've got a lot of trauma from those years. And so you know, even now, as you know, they're in their early 50s, I'm in my late 40s, that dynamic still lives in a way, you know, it doesn't matter how old you get, there's still gonna be that sort of friction, that sort of, you know, hierarchy.

Laura Bowman:

That's so funny that you say that Dave, I've been recently doing a lot of like brother work in therapy, like with grown men that have brothers like their their idea of who they are as men is very defined by like who they were in relationship to their brothers. So I find that sibling work so interesting that, just as an aside, but

Dave Tarnowski:

it's, it's a strange thing. It's a strange thing, you know, because we get along, you know, there, there are moments. I mean, we're, we're very different people, where it's at the point now where the age just doesn't really matter. But yet, you've got, like, those buttons that people push, but then you've got the people who installed them in the first place, right? And so, how the do you deal with that now, you know? How do you somehow subvert that and get around that, you know? And so there are levels, different levels, you know. And it's, it's almost like how they have a defensive driving course, you should almost have a defensive therapy course. And how, you

Colette Fehr:

know, for dealing with your family of origin? Yeah, totally.

Dave Tarnowski:

You know, you throw up a jump scare and you're like, how are you going to react to this go?

Colette Fehr:

Because it's really true with family stuff, whether it's siblings, parents, you know, I'll think, Oh, I've evolved beyond that, or that won't bother me anymore. And you go home and you're right back. It's the same argument. I'm 16 years old. My mom's annoying me in the same way, you know, it's just, it's so it changes. And we. Grow, but those dynamics are so entrenched, and they can come right back up for you, even when you think you've transformed beyond

Dave Tarnowski:

Yeah, yeah, it's like, that's why. So there's this book out called let them or the

Unknown:

Yeah,

Dave Tarnowski:

yeah, and I'm just like, easier said than done. Mel, like, it's great in theory, but sometimes it's more like, Fuck them, you know, I

Colette Fehr:

think that should be your next book, Dave. You know,

Laura Bowman:

it's so funny that you said that, Dave, because, like, I heard her on an interview, and she said that the let them is almost for the person to get to the fuck them. She said it's almost like a it's like it gives you that little boost of like, self righteous energy, of like, let them, let them, not invite me, but it's to sort of fire you up. Yeah, take care. I've heard her say that about your book, but I agree. It's so much easier said than done. Yeah?

Dave Tarnowski:

It's like, I mean, I'm not gonna say her book is antithetical to mine. We're definitely, we're in a Venn diagram somewhere, yeah, yeah. Like, I did a little project with Gretchen Rubin not too long ago. So talk about, you know, somebody who, like, we couldn't be more polar opposite, happiness, happiness. But it's, it's, it's fun getting to know people in different areas, you know, and seeing how you know. You know, we're all trying to, we're all just trying to help. To help in different ways. I think, right,

Colette Fehr:

right? Yeah. And I think a lot of people pull from what's worked for them. I know one of the challenges I see in therapy about the positive focus, it's a fine line. Of course, it's important. You know, there's a lot about positive psychology that I really appreciate, and I actually think I'm a pretty optimistic person, but I'm also the first to be like, Oh my God, everything is shit, and, like, kind of self deprecatingly laugh at it. And that's part of what enables me to be positive. And I think it's there's a difference when there's a wall up to I have to be positive. I have to be positive because if anything negative gets in, I'm going to kind of fall apart. It's going to consume me. And I see that a lot as a therapist, that some people have lived their whole life that way because of trauma or difficult people in their lives when they were younger, they had to build those kind of defense mechanisms. You had a client say to me the other day, a male client, well, the minute my wife starts getting upset, I just want to get away and focus on something positive. And I thought that was the kind of the poster child statement for what I hear from a lot of in particular, men and couples therapy, that that's a long standing coping mechanism, and certainly nobody you nor us as therapists, is saying, Let's just all swim and like miserable shit forever and let it drown us. But that feelings are designed to be their energy. They we have to allow it to move through our body and then find ways to cope and redirect without blocking and stuffing and repressing, because that's what makes us sick and what makes our mental health conditions worsen.

Dave Tarnowski:

Yeah, and there's, there's one thing I think the most important emotion that there is to deal with is grief, you know, and it's something that, yeah, we all go through in our lives, and you know, for many different ways, you grieve someone who passed a relationship that you know that is now over. And I think that's that's something that a lot of people don't have. I don't want to say they don't have the armor for it. They don't know that they need to armor up for it. It's a roller coaster. Anyone who's been through it, it'll come it'll be here on Monday, and then it'll disappear and it'll show up out of the blue on Friday. And, you know, that's, that's one thing that I also, you know, focus on, and a lot of my work. And I think I feel like I'm a survivor of it. You know, I went through a lot of I forgot if I mentioned so I gave up booze two months ago, and that was after a very, very long period of just a lot of binge drinking, you know. And I really wasn't happy with my life. I wasn't happy with myself. There were a lot of feelings from over the years that I had been postponing, as opposed to dealing with in the moment, you know. And a lot of that would turn out to be, you know, these moments of I would listen to the wrong song, and suddenly I'd be at a puddle of tears. You know, it's it's been a hard several years. I've had several losses in my life, including, might sound small or silly or whatever, but my my dog passed, and she had been around for two marriages. She had been there, you know, like, I mean, she died. She was 19 years old. She lived a nice, long life, wow. But being without her, it's just sort of like this. You don't replace something like that, you know, you don't replace, yeah, so, so

Colette Fehr:

significant relationship that was with you through your whole kind of adult life.

Dave Tarnowski:

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so anyone out there listening who's been through, uh, pet passing, you're not

Laura Bowman:

people come undone. I've seen people come undone from this.

Colette Fehr:

I'm still not over it, and spent three years for me with my dog, and I still could cry about it. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. You know it's just, I think it's a relationship. It's a primary attachment figure. It's not just a dog. Our dogs love us unconditionally, and I think a relationship with a dog is one of the best relationships that's out there. So but you know, I'm glad you're talking about grief, because I think it's we can't avoid it, but it's understandable that at times we want to avoid it because it's so painful while you're on that roller coaster. It's just it can subsume you at times, how heavy it is.

Laura Bowman:

So, so is the book like a like, a nod towards the grief? Like, is this like, oh, you working that out in the new book.

Dave Tarnowski:

No What, what the new book is and how it differs from from the first book, which was just a collection of of the affirmations. I had tried with the first book to string them together to make a sort of story. But with Book Two, it's in sections. There's 104 affirmations and the new book, some of them are from the page. A lot of them are new. And it's split up amongst eight chapters. So there's daily motivation, mental health, love and relationships, which is my favorite, because I think the entire chapter is new, or, like most of it is new like never before seen, because that stuff that I don't usually like write on the main page about is love and relationships. But so then after that, it's other people, work, success, self improvement, and then grief and regret. And so it's these different sections. And each section, I start off with the short essays. And the essay is basically, it opens that section. I love that. And so it's, it's, I'm a lot happier with this book. I was able to actually write a book this time, yeah, like that, that first time around, it was sort of like, you know, it was an overnight success. I mean, I, you know, I can't call it anything other than what it was. And so that that first book grew up with the page, you know, it's like, right? It was three months in between when I started the page, and when, you know, when the contract was signed, you know, so all of a sudden it was just like, Okay, gotta throw this together within the next few months. But the second book, I was able to really be more of myself, to show more of myself in it, you know, and not just have these pithy sayings you know, that you can flip through and be like, you know? It's like, there's more context there, you know? So it's like taking that initial essay that I wrote for the first book, which was like I had pushed for more writing in that first book, yeah, but I couldn't quite get it in, so I wanted to get as much as I. Could into that first essay. But now, you know, I was able to split my my attention amongst eight different, you know, areas of living. You know, it

Colette Fehr:

sounds like there's going to be so much in this that people really get a lot out of and I think that's, I think so. Other point of all this is that it's entertaining. It makes us laugh, right? Why people love your page every time? I'm not even kidding, since I got your book a couple months ago and put it on my coffee table in the waiting room, every time I open my door, someone's leaping through it and they're laughing. They're smiling. They're like, Oh my god, I love this. So I think there's that piece that helps people. But I also think when you share about these difficult topics and you're vulnerable about your own experiences, it's so connecting, so powerful. You're going to help so many people. So the book just came out yesterday, as of this episode. So tell all our listeners, in case they haven't already found you or gotten the book, how they can find you on Instagram website where your book is all that good stuff.

Dave Tarnowski:

So you could find me on Instagram at disappointing affirmations. You could also go to disappointing affirmations.com and that will lead you to a portal where you can order, I think, all nine of my current items for for sale,

Colette Fehr:

because I've been on there. Yeah,

Dave Tarnowski:

it's we've there quite a lot of stuff, but yeah, and I'm very excited, so I was able to show off the book here. But also, at the same time, the these affirmation cards are coming out, and these are, they're really, really beautiful, little like Tarot esque kind of you, you, you, you pick your card for the day, and that's your that's how you know, how your days.

Colette Fehr:

And that's a great gift to give people. That's a great gift

Dave Tarnowski:

to that too. You know, it's, it's, it's so giftable. Everybody can think of at least one person in their life that would like this sort of stuff.

Colette Fehr:

So and we're gonna have all the links to order your book, to your website, your Instagram handle will also be in our show notes. And I can't wait to get my hard copy of your book, and

Dave Tarnowski:

I'm sad it was it I wasn't able to get you, but we did set this up pretty quick. So yes,

Colette Fehr:

yes, and it's in transit. It's in transit. So all good. And I think us meeting with you before will make reading it that much richer. So I'm excited.

Laura Bowman:

And I think that your work, your work is like, you know, we talk about like, these levels in therapy, you know, maybe people pick up your book who aren't ready to go to therapy, but you're letting them into themselves on a level, right?

Colette Fehr:

Like you're establishing one level, and you're modeling something for men, yeah, for

Laura Bowman:

sure, for sure,

Dave Tarnowski:

and that that is huge. You know, it's like, worth it, because, you know, if we could go, we could talk about generations, like we did earlier, but getting men to therapy, that is, that is a tough thing, and it was tough getting me there,

Colette Fehr:

but like you said, it was so powerful for you. And when men do come to therapy, they get so much out of it. So let that be our parting message to everyone. Men, come to therapy,

Dave Tarnowski:

go to therapy, do it. Do the work, and eventually, one day you will understand what that means, even especially if it sucks.

Colette Fehr:

Well, thank you for being here, Dave. We're so excited. And this, our listeners are going to get so much from this. Everyone loves your book, and I know they're going to love your second book too. Just again, it's sorry in advance for making things weird. Great title. So everyone go grab a copy, and thank you all for listening. We will see you next time on insights from the couch,

Dave Tarnowski:

bye guys, thank you so much. You.