Insights from the Couch - Real Talk for Women at Midlife

Ep.70: The New Rules of Parenting and Grandparenting Toddlers with Devon Kuntzman

• Colette Fehr, Laura Bowman • Season 6 • Episode 70

Share episode

Ever feel like your toddler is trying to break you? You’re not alone. In this episode, we’re joined by the incredible Devon Kuntzman—toddler parenting expert and author of the brand new book Transforming Toddlerhood: How to Handle Tantrums and Power Struggles and Raise Resilient Kids Without Losing Your Mind. We dive into the real talk about toddler behavior, emotional regulation, and how we as parents can stay sane and connected in the chaos.

Whether you’re in the thick of toddlerhood yourself, preparing for grandparenting, or just love understanding the "why" behind those tiny tornadoes, this conversation is packed with empathy, science-backed strategies, and hope. Devon gives us a totally refreshing reframe on discipline, tantrums, and screen time—and we also explore how much has changed (and how much hasn’t) in parenting over the decades.

 

Episode Highlights:

[0:00] Meet Devon and her just-launched book on toddlerhood
 [3:06] Redefining what “toddler” really means
 [4:33] What’s changed in the way we understand toddler behavior
 [7:48] Why toddler meltdowns aren’t bad behavior—they’re communication
 [9:47] Parenting styles: from controlling commander to confident guide
 [12:49] Real-world scenario: what to do when your toddler hits you
 [15:24] Teaching kids to cope with emotions instead of just punishing behavior
 [17:19] The importance of reparenting yourself while raising your child
 [18:24] How to avoid permissiveness while still setting healthy limits
 [21:08] It’s okay to be overwhelmed—and why repair is more powerful than perfection
 [25:00] Devon’s 4-step process for repairing relationships after a parenting slip
 [27:27] Generational gaps: parenting now vs. then
 [29:53] Navigating boundaries with your child and your parents
[32:04] Real talk: toddlers and restaurants are not always a match
[33:53] What’s the deal with screens? Devon breaks down screen time and brain health
[35:32] Parenting isn’t passive—it’s the hardest job you’ll ever love
[37:56] Self-compassion, strong-willed toddlers, and hilarious parenting fails
[39:44] Final takeaways: discipline that connects, teaches, and sets limits

 

Links and Resources: 

🍼 Transforming Toddlerhood by Devon Kuntzman: https://www.transformingtoddlerhood.com/book/

📲 Follow Devon on Instagram: @transformingtoddlerhood

 

If today's discussion resonated with you or sparked curiosity, please rate, follow,

Pre-order The Cost of Quiet now! Colette’s new book, The Cost of Quiet: How to Have the Hard Conversations that Create Secure, Lasting Love, launches February 3rd. Secure your copy today and get VIP bonuses available only before launch day. https://www.colettejanefehr.com/new-book

🎙️ Love the podcast? Come talk about episodes with us inside The Midlife Chat. It’s a free, private community just for women at midlife who want to keep these conversations going. We’ve created this space for real talk, fresh resources, and honest connection—where you can share ideas and resources, ask questions, and get support from women navigating the same season. Come join us—we’d love to have you!

👉 Join The Midlife Chat here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/795863256460970/

Pre-order The Cost of Quiet now! Colette’s new book, The Cost of Quiet: How to Have the Hard Conversations that Create Secure, Lasting Love, launches February 3rd. Secure your copy today and get VIP bonuses available only before launch day.

Colette Fehr:

Marc, welcome to insights from the couch, where real conversations meet real

Laura Bowman:

life. At midlife, we're Colette and Laura, two therapists and best friends, walking through the journey right alongside you, whether you're feeling stuck, restless or just unsure of what's next. This is a space for honest conversations, messy truths and meaningful change.

Colette Fehr:

And our midlife master class is now open. If you're looking to level up, get into action and make midlife the best season yet. Go to insights from the couch.org and join our wait list. Now let's dive in. Welcome back to insights from the couch. I'm so excited to introduce another friend and talented author, Devin and is it? Clint Smith, am I saying it right? I got that right. Okay, I remember and your book is coming out. Actually, it just came out yesterday, as of this episode dropping transforming toddlerhood, how to handle tantrums and power struggles and raise resilient kids without losing your mind, which is the key there. I wish I had known you and had this book back when my kids were young. Devin, welcome. I can't wait to dive into your book and all of your subject matter expertise today.

Devon Kuntzman:

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me in here. Hot off the press. Here it is for everyone watching

Colette Fehr:

love it. It's so good. It's so well done. Thank you. I really

Devon Kuntzman:

wanted to write a book that was accessible for parents, especially if you're a parent of a young child, or even if you're a grandparent. It's, you know, a lot of parenting books are long chapters that you have to read 12 to 20 pages to get through, and that can be a lot whenever you're experiencing what feels like 100 mini crises a day with your toddler's behavior. So I created a book that's really a comprehensive quick reference guide that allows you to flip to whatever challenge you're having. There's a mini chapter on it there for you with scripts and tips and exactly what you need to do to get

Colette Fehr:

through it. Oh my gosh, that's so helpful. And like we were saying, Devin and I met in the green room at a news station in Washington, DC. We were on the same program together, talking about different things. She was talking about her book, and I was talking about, I think Gray, divorce and sleep divorce. I can't keep track of these. You were I loved it. Yeah, it was really fun. So we were chatting about our books and our book journey. And I had first said to Devon, it's just kind of funny. I'm like, Oh, well, you know, our podcast is really geared toward women at midlife, or women in their 40s and 50s. And you know, Laura and I both had our kids young, which is so rare these days, and also theoretically not advisable. Devon's like, well, I'm in my 40s, and I have a three year old. And it really is true. You know, whether you you may be my age, 52 and have toddlers, which you define as zero to five years old, right? Something I actually hadn't thought about either. I thought of toddlers like two or three,

Devon Kuntzman:

yeah, one, I usually say one to five. But what's interesting is toddler who can start as early as nine months, where you're starting to see your child start of like, pushing back on like, things you're trying to do, like change their diaper or get them to eat and things like this. And so some people are surprised when they're nine month old. They're like, Oh my gosh, what's happening? Are we already at toddlerhood? And it's like, yes, it's coming

Colette Fehr:

fast. So thank you for reframing that, because it doesn't obviously start at birth. The whole idea, as you say in the book, is it's like, the term comes from when you begin to toddle right, and you can you have a personality you can resist. You're starting to assert yourself and make your needs known, yeah,

Devon Kuntzman:

kind of like, as a separate like, you start to realize that you're not an extension of your parent and caregivers, that you're your own individual, and that can start so early. It's surprising, right, that a nine month old, like, all of a sudden they're refusing at their diaper change. You're like, what happened here? Where is my like, sweet, little, cuddly

Laura Bowman:

baby? So I haven't had a toddler in like, 15 years. They Yeah, by this definition, like 15 years almost. But what has changed? Like, what's this like, dealing with these power struggles like an emergent toddler like, what are some of the things that are shifting in the zeitgeist on how to deal with little ones that, like I might not even be aware

Devon Kuntzman:

of? Sure? Well, what's so interesting is that in the last 15 to 20 years, we just have so much more information in research on the brain development of young children, right, and to understand what's actually happening. So for a long time, we thought, if your child was like refusing to do something or having a tantrum, that they were having bad behavior, that they were being bad, they need to get it together and. You know, we need to move on with life. And now what we understand is that a lot is happening in the brain during this time, and the brain is very immature during this period of life. And not to mention toddlers just don't have a lot of life experience and skills they rely on, right? Like there's not they have so much more to learn. So what we realize is, I think the biggest reframe that has come from all this research is that behavior is not good or bad, it's communication. And whether you have a toddler or you have a school aged child or a tween or a teenager, even a college student, all behavior is communication. This is true for every, every human being, if you really think about it. And so this idea that we would think that a young child was being bad if they were didn't want to go take a bath, or didn't want to go to bed, or something like this, and like understanding that, okay, this is developmentally appropriate behavior because they're becoming their own person, which, spoiler alert, happens again in the teen years, right? Like you guys, I've already experienced that, like the second toddlerhood is the teen years, and so that's why all of the things I talk about my book, like, yes, it's framed at toddlerhood, but we're talking like relationship skills and parenting skills that like cross the lifespan,

Colette Fehr:

right? And in my office, I'm seeing that adults really can't communicate, right, that it's so hard to put and I'm not really kidding, that it's so hard when you're feeling emotions and you're needing something. It's really hard for high functioning, mature adults in their 40s, 50s and 60s, to put their words together, to communicate calmly and clearly. So the fact that we even remotely think or ever thought a toddler would be developmentally capable of that is actually insane. So when they're having a meltdown, as difficult as is, I have to say, even delving into this topic, I have like flashbacks to like darkness, because it's just such a hard period of time. And depending on your personality, you know, I'm not like the sitting in a rocking chair kind of person. I don't have any patience. It's a major flaw of mine, and I was extremely challenged during the toddler phase, I made a lot of I lost my temper a lot. I got frustrated. I felt like I had no time. And I love how, in your book, you're very normalizing and forgiving of that, that we parents, even good parents, we are gonna not always be at our best. We are human. So, you know, take us into some of what the crux of what you're sharing with people about this new approach to understanding our toddlers and handling them,

Devon Kuntzman:

yeah, well, the first part is, I want to comment on, like, this idea of being human. This is why I dedicate a whole section of the book to the to the toddler parent. But really, could just be named to about the parent, parenting, like understanding your role, understanding your triggers, knowing how to calm yourself, what to do in your parenting partner, is like, not even in the same page, but in a whole different book. You know, what do you do here? Because these are challenges all parents face. All good parents face that because we are all human beings. And I think that's one of the biggest points about my book, that I want people to understand, your child is human. You are human too. You all have feelings, needs and emotions, and that does not make anyone bad or wrong, right there. So I think so important, so important, right? And it starts to change everything when we accept that right isn't a big part of life, just like refusing to accept like feelings and emotions and like the

Colette Fehr:

reality, yes, but if that weren't the case, I wouldn't have a job. So I'm grateful that people struggle.

Laura Bowman:

But as you say that like, I'm like, just reflecting on my own parenting and like, I'm definitely from a generation where it was like, the parent had to be sort of like, assert authority and make children behave. Like my mom used the word all the time, I'm non negotiable, which meant, like, we like, like, conversation is shut down. I'm in charge. You know, I heard enough a lot like, no and like, there was some,

Colette Fehr:

I think children and not her, yeah,

Laura Bowman:

I think she thought she was like a new wave parent in some ways. But like, there was still this idea of like a parent is asserting control, which is like, when I'm hearing this other piece from you, like, we're human, let's normalize it. Everything's communication. It's a different mindset of like maintaining control.

Devon Kuntzman:

It is and, you know, I have a chapter dedicated to parenting roles, because it's actually really important to understand what is your role as a parent, just as much as it's important to understand what to do after you yell, right? How do you repair the relationship? But we need to also understand, like, what actually is our role, and so I like to say we have the controlling commander on one side and the permissive pushover on the other side. And these are two opposite ends of the spectrum. And when we're being the controlling commander, it's like the my way or the highway mentality, where we're not taking the child's feelings, emotions or needs into account at all. That's just about obedience and compliance. On the other end of the spectrum is a permissive pushover, where we're placating our kids, giving in, walking on eggshells, trying not to like, you know, trying to keep them happy at all costs, basically, where that means the child is in control. And guess what? When each side of the relationship is like, has too much control, or there's the middle and Aggie negotiator, where you're vying for control, that's not really what a healthy relationship is built on, even with young children, where we've been taught like, oh, we have to control our kids, but this idea of control is such an illusion, you can't control another human being. I mean, right? Even a toddler, yeah, especially a toddler, right? You're like, we can't control you can't control them. And so, you know, the thing is, is that when you realize control is an illusion, and you start to accept that you can't control someone else. Now you've got to get more creative here, right? Because if you're commit, if you're demanding this compliance at all costs, what is, what is the cost of that, either your child is like, you're degrading your relationship, or your child's becoming a people pleaser, like pushing down their feelings and emotions to like, you know, serve the needs of others. So that's where you really want to try to be in charge, which is being the, what I call the confident leader and guide. Where you're in charge. You're setting the container. You're setting limits, creating the container, but your child has some freedom, and can, you know, make choices inside of that container. So it's really about taking your child's feelings, emotions and needs into account while creating that safe container with limits.

Unknown:

So, yeah, that's so huge. Yeah,

Colette Fehr:

you're shifting from, you know, compliance at any cost control, you will submit to My authority, like, right? I'm the parent, and you will do what I say, and I'll make you do it to like you're this confident leader and guide. You're in charge, you're the adult. But this is a complete reframe of the relationship you have with a toddler. Can you give us an example of something like a scenario? What this would look like, whether it's like a tantrum, your child refusing to do something like, how does this go down? And again, I just wish to God I knew this stuff back in the day. Yeah, you

Devon Kuntzman:

know, it's, it's, it's, we've all do the best with what we have when we have it. And that is, that is the truth. And repair is a beautiful thing to have it. You know, being able to repair the relationship. And what I just want to say is that, um, let's like, let's take the example of hitting. So say your child hits you because they're upset. Most parents would be like, bad behavior, time out, punishment, no screens, no dessert. Go to time out, you know, whatever, all the things in reality, what is your kid learning through these punishments? They're learning to be afraid of you. They're learning to like, not maybe tell you things for fear of getting in trouble, but like taking away dessert or screens or not going to the park, isn't really related to the behavior. And you're sure not teaching your child what to do next time. That's the biggest difference. It's not what punishment Does my child need to, like, learn their lesson, it's what skill Does my child need to learn to be successful here and do it differently. So in this new model, what we're doing is you might say something like, I won't let you hit. It's important to set limits, right? And so you move back from your child, you put them down, something like that. And then you can say something like, I said, it's time to take a bath. So you do the connection piece. Say, you said, was time take a bath. I told you it was time to take a bath. And then you hit me. It seems like you don't want

Colette Fehr:

to take a bath. You're helping them make sense of what they're trying to exactly.

Devon Kuntzman:

You're creating connection and helping them make sense of it. And then you set the limit. So you create the connection, you set the limit. This is the recipe for effective discipline. Create the limit, or, sorry, create the connection. Set the limit. So then you might say, hitting hurts. It's unsafe. I will not let you hit me. And then you say something like, what can you do when you feel upset and you want to hit you don't want to go to the teaching skills piece when your child's really upset. So you may have to wait a little bit of time, but ideally, once your child's not upset anymore, you talk about what they can do next time when they feel frustrated, when they feel mad, you. Because we want to teach our child skills, coping skills, relationship skills, communication skills, not punish them, and have them always looking outside themselves at like for an authority figure to draw the line, we want them to learn how to regulate themselves. That's what really success looks like, and that's requires a different approach,

Laura Bowman:

but you're also validating emotion, right? Like, it makes sense, there's times where it's like, I don't want to take a bath. And, like, it makes sense that you wouldn't want to take a bath,

Devon Kuntzman:

especially if you're having a fun play. Yeah, so, and that's

Laura Bowman:

I didn't get that piece in my generation, like my parenting, it was sort of like, you're not feeling that, that that's that doesn't matter. You're over that.

Colette Fehr:

But nobody gave a shit about emotions. Like, right? No, yeah. It's like, you're fine. You're fine. That's nobody talked about emotions at all.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, yeah. So it's a different model,

Devon Kuntzman:

and it's so important, though, because when we think about raising an emotionally healthy child, right? Because you're on the other end of that, like all the years later, and like thinking about relationships, because, like, parenting is really the first relationship your child's ever going to be in, right? It's kind of like it's the model for other relationships moving forward.

Colette Fehr:

Really, it's got a profound impact. I mean, that is really, that's what we go back to when I do couples therapy, I do an individual adult attachment interview with each partner, and we go back, and I always explain, it's not about blaming your parents. I agree we all did the best we could, and some people were really harmed by some of what happened. And none of us gets through parenting perfectly. Every child will have something they can say about you in therapy one day, I promise you that. But we're looking at what was modeled. How did adults respond to your emotions? And I always say loosely, around 40, maybe even 35 if you're older than that, you just, I just don't get people in my office who were emotionally attuned to meaning that somebody leaned into their feelings, validated, connected with them in that place. And it does have an impact, because then you don't know how to do that for yourself, and you certainly don't know how to do that for a partner,

Devon Kuntzman:

yeah, and for a child, and that's why switching your way of parenting. And I think there's so many parents out there that are like, Okay, I don't want to parent the way that maybe I was raised, but then they go too far the other direction, and they're like, I don't know what to do, so I'm not setting limits because I don't want to mess them up. Oh, now my child's crying. Did I go too far? Am I wearing them emotionally, right? It's like this whole rabbit hole, and that's why, you know, it can be so challenging, but it's so important to know that, you know, just taking feelings, emotions and needs into consideration, even if it's not perfect, because it doesn't need to be perfect, because in the imperfect moments in the humanness is where all the learning happens. We're allowed to repair the relationship. We're allowed to learn alongside our kids, but when we're asked to re parent ourselves alongside our toddlers. So it's, it's a lot of work, right? And so, yeah, it's, it's really a commitment to to being a cycle breaker and changing, changing the direction and the ripple effect for the future.

Colette Fehr:

Yes, and you're giving people an actual solution, like a way to this is how we can do this, where we're not creating enabled permissiveness that's actually really shooting your child's chances of relational and functioning in the foot. Can we speak to that just for a second? Because I am horrified by what I see out in the world where kids are like running the show. Parents don't say no. The whole family system operates out of the kid kid. I know I sound like an old person, an old crabby person, but when I am in public, kids are running around screaming. There's no consideration. It feels like there's no adult. And the kids just like, what's whatever the kid wants. And you just look at it and go like, Oh my God, this cannot be the answer. So what have? What do you see happening with that? And how much of a problem is that?

Devon Kuntzman:

Yeah, it's super challenging, because there's all these terms, like positive parenting, gentle parenting, that people actually misconstrue, right? Because they don't have like, a hard and fast definition. And so then people are like, misconstruing, like, being gentle, but then they are like, Okay, I'm gentle with emotions, but then they're also like, gentle with the limits. And it's like, oh no, we need limits. That's why I created this recipe for effective discipline. We need to create connection where we're taking feelings, emotions, needs into account. We need to set limits and follow through on them, because that is very healthy. And we need to teach skills, because that's important for success later in life. But there's a big. Difference between normalizing allowing toddlers to take up space in this world, right? Because you're going to have a toddler who does not like being restrained on an airplane, because toddlers are developmentally wired to experiment and explore, and they do that through movement, and on an airplane, they can't move. So you're going to have toddlers having a meltdown. So that's important to normalize toddlers taking up space in this world and with typical toddler behavior. However, that's different than, you know, having kids that are, you know, running around with like, zero limits that don't have, or like, you know, parents are constantly, like, bowing to the child's wishes to avoid a tantrum or a meltdown. And that's that permissiveness, that permissive pushover, which we all go there sometimes, but it's about when that becomes consistent. Yeah, that that's when it becomes a problem. Because we might think that we're like saving our kids emotions, right, because they didn't get upset, but we're truly not setting them up for success with emotional resilience or the relationship skills that they need to be successful.

Laura Bowman:

Let's be like, really real. It did. It takes a lot of distress tolerance on the behalf of the parent. You have to be talking to yourself, patient, and again, I go back to, like, understanding your role, that you're there to be this, like, steady guide, and that you're going to be in it with your kid. So, I mean, just because, you know they're not going to always listen, they could scream the whole plane flight. They could try to, like, get to the aisle, yeah, the whole and you have to experience that. I've experienced it too, and,

Colette Fehr:

yeah, it's grueling, it's awful. It's so rough on your nervous system. I remember flying Charlotte to Hawaii when she was her her grandparents and aunt lived there, and she was maybe 15 months old, and it seemed like she screamed the whole way every flight, because I forced her to be in the car seat. I was afraid of turbulence, like causing an accident, and the stress I felt as a parent between people in the cabin. We were in first class. So you can imagine, everybody hated me, and they were you here? Why are you here? And I didn't blame them. And then, like seeing my kids so distressed. I mean, you can really have a panic attack in these moments. Oh, it

Devon Kuntzman:

is so hard. I mean, that's why this is the hardest work we'll ever do. Is that re parenting piece right alongside it is truly the hardest work we'll ever do. It won't look perfect, it won't be perfect, and we'll be doing the rest of our lives, and that's okay, right? But it is true, and you're not always going to have the bandwidth or the emotional resilience or the frustration tolerance, and that's okay too. And so that's where this idea of repairing the relationship is so important, because we are never going to be perfect parents. We're never going to be robots, and our kids actually don't need that, because when our kids experience challenges in life, but then there's repair, and they learn how to navigate it, it's going to help. But why? But when I think about repair, I think about it in four steps so, and I actually like to share that, because repair is more than just an apology. To me, it's taking ownership for your side of the street. Something like, wow, I felt really frustrated, and I lost control of myself, and I yelled. And then you might say, how was that for you, or what was your experience? So then you also check in on the impact. That's the second step, and you see, and then you validate whatever your child says. If you have a young toddler, one or two, they might not be able to tell you that's okay. You just the fact that you're asking, you're setting up they understand, and you're setting up that habit for when they are able to actually respond. And then you can apologize. You can say, I'm really sorry I yelled at you. That's not that was not my intention, and I apologize for the impact. And then you can do the fourth step, which I think is the most important, which is the redo. Next time this happens, I'm going to blank. Next time I feel like this, I'm going to blink, because to me, that's the important part. Is the intention you're setting to do it differently. You're starting to rewire your brain, and you're practicing it, practice right there, and then do it, do a redo. And that's what really starts to create the momentum and create the change and rebuild that trust with your child. And guess what? When you have this 567, year old, they're gonna be like a hi, mom, hi. Remember you said next time this happens, you're going to blank, blank, blank, and that's okay. You don't have to feel embarrassed about that, like it's it's part of the human experience. It's actually helpful when your kids. Like, you know, but

Laura Bowman:

it also models for your child how to repair as well and take responsibility and begin. It's a beautiful opportunity. Yeah, it's like to iterate on their relationship so seamlessly, is you modeling that

Devon Kuntzman:

it's, it's so important that that's the relationship skills. Like, how cool is it that we don't have to be perfect, and we don't have to know all the answers, and we can still be teaching those skills, as long as we're willing to be human and vulnerable, which is a big ask. It takes

Colette Fehr:

practice, yeah, but so important, and I love that we're in this model you have. We're teaching kids how to cope, because that is the big missing piece for people who grew up with this old school parenting, right? This like authoritarian and at times, a lot of what I hear from people that used to be normalized was downright abusive, whether they define it that way or not, physically, emotionally horrible. Some of the stuff that went on, you know, even my own father, who had really loving, great parents, and it was born in the 40s, you know, just caveat, you know, some of the stuff, he was put on a train and sent to sleep away camp, out of New York City, out of Harlem at five years old, and sent to camp for two and a half months. Didn't see his parents. And those were, you know, that was not, at the time, thought to be now we understand from an attachment perspective like that is super fucked up on every level, so we've come a long way. But I think the fact that not only are we being human with our kids and we're teaching them, we're really helping them learn to cope with their own emotions and to find constructive ways of dealing with these things from the youngest age, instead of waiting till somebody's 45 and they lose their temper and their marriage and they don't know how to handle that frustration, you're teaching them from the beginning like we're baking it in,

Devon Kuntzman:

yeah, I mean, and it's not going to be it's not going to be perfect, But we're giving kids like these skills early on, and the ability for them to practice them early on is going to make such a huge difference. Because, you know, as we all know, our brains have neuroplasticity. You know, our brains can change. We can learn new things, new habits, which is beautiful and amazing. But of course, it's easier in the first five years of life than it is later on, because all those neuro pathways and connections are forming for the first time.

Colette Fehr:

Get it on the first round. I

Laura Bowman:

think we're getting better. We're getting better at teaching this stuff. I the parenting advice is getting better, even from my like, when I was raising kids. I mean, what do you what is the common thing you see? Or do you see? Like the the clash between generations. Like, I would say, in the next five to 10 years, I'll probably be a grandmother. Like, what it, what is, what is the mismatch between the generations?

Devon Kuntzman:

Well, I think, like, one thing that is happening is, like, this idea of is like, well, if I was so bad, then, you know, so it's a lot of like grandparents, like feeling almost attacked because, like things have changed, and feeling like defensive about how they parented, right? And, gosh, my heart goes out because, like everyone, as I, as I already said, everyone does the best with what they have in that moment, and that is nothing to be ashamed about, right? And so, like, I just think that that's that's challenging as like, the times have changed to, like, kind of be faced with, like, oh gosh, maybe I could have done this differently, or could have done this better, but, you know, you can't spend your life looking through the rear view mirror, as I call it, right? And what it coulda shoulda land, right? You gotta, like, look out the the windshield at the horizon. And so I think that's just one of the things to like that comes up a lot. And then I just think, like, this other idea of, like, the still, this idea of, like, control versus being in charge. It's like, oh, you need to get control of your child where more so it's saying something like, I'm I'm uncomfortable with my grandson jumping on the couch. That's really what I think like, maybe a grandparent wants to, like, say in that moment, but then it becomes like, you need to control your child. No, he's a toddler. He, you know, I'm not going to, you know. And so it becomes like this thing where, so I think it's hard, because actually, everyone wants to get to the same goal, but they maybe don't have a shared language to get to the same goal. Because in the end, like, Yeah, we should set a limit about, you know, a kid jumping on the couch. You know, everyone can agree that kids probably shouldn't be jumping on the couch. It's not good for the couch. They could fall off. Blah, blah, blah, but it's about how to have, like, a shared common language, or how to, like, talk about a shared goal. And I think sometimes that gets

Colette Fehr:

lost. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm just thinking about it, right. You're You're right. We have to the key. Is the parent does need to be in charge. We do need to set limits, but we need to find a way to connect the behavior that's happening with what else can you do? What's our common goal here, right? Really teaching and guiding the child to learn experientially for themselves. And I think as grandparents, you know, going into grandparent land, hopefully, for any of you listening who are more like Laura and I, which I'm definitely not ready to be a grandparent yet, just because I don't think my kids should be parents yet, I want them to enjoy their their 20s for a little longer. But it's it'll come soon, and that we can also, even if we didn't do it all, we did it the best we could, or whatever. I mean, we, when my kids were little, there weren't even screens. You had a TV. There was no, yeah. I mean, my kids were born in 2001 and 2003 we had the wiggles. Yeah, it was a very, exactly, a very, and whatever, those, maybe those Teletubbies were out. I can't remember if that was out, but yeah, but I was playing VCR VHS tapes of Disney movies. That's how long ago I was doing this so, but I've already accepted that I made a lot of mistakes, and I went through a divorce when my kids were toddlers, and so there was a lot pressing down on me to amplify my stress and make my bandwidth that much less. But I can be supporting my kids when they have their kids with, first of all, respecting their autonomy to raise their kids as they see fit, because I think that's really important. And also having this approach when I'm watching the kids or, you know, they come to stay with me, or I'm out with them to lunch, and it's not appropriate to run around the restaurant screaming, because you're impacting other diners that, you know, I can take this, make the connection and set the limit and help the kid what you're saying, like, what do you want to do? Like, what can you do when you're feeling this way and be supportive.

Devon Kuntzman:

And that scenario might mean, I mean, gosh, so I have a table in my book of attention span, and so, you know, a three year old's attention span. Wait, what is it? Oh, it's pretty love. It's under 10 minutes. Oh, wow, I thought a three and four year old. So if we're going to a restaurant, and a, we have a hungry kid, and B, we're asking them to sit like our adult like restaurant experiences are not set up for toddlers. So what we might have to do is adjust how we do things to help our child succeed, which might mean, you know, before food comes, like having a little, like, pre appetizer snack already there, or ordering for the child right away, maybe getting the child up going on, like a little, you know, walk in, like, the lobby of the restaurant, or something like, or if I try to sit on patios with toddlers as much as possible, or in more informal Dining environments, maybe, like, you know, a brewery or something where it's just not quite as formal. So your kid can, like, get up and walk around and stuff, because you might have to take them on a little trip come back. You might have to pull out a surprise toy from your bag that they've never seen before to keep them to re engage them again. And so it's all about like, how do we take their feelings and needs and emotions into account, as well as, like, you know, our needs and stuff, right? Because you can't have your toddler running a muck in a restaurant, and restaurants are really hard for toddlers because they're expected to sit for an hour and a half when 10 minutes is already way too much. Yeah, it's insane.

Colette Fehr:

We're setting them up for failure. Okay, I have a question too, before we wrap up, do you take any kind of stance, or what's your view, even if you don't on technology limits with technology, what all of this screen time is doing to kids brains?

Devon Kuntzman:

Yes, I love this question, and I have a really great chapter in my book that covers everything screen time. It's actually a little bit longer of a chapter, because there's a lot of research to talk about. Talk about a lot of research in there. Talk about a lot of things. And really what I want parents to do is to create healthy habits around screens. And you need to take your unique child in their development into account, so that it might mean, you know, you have a child who's very sensitive to screen time, and they're going to do better without screen time, but regardless, you should stay within the limits of what's recommended, because we know that excessive screen time period is very bad for development at this age, less is more when it comes to screen time, and you need to know your own child's impact of screens and their threshold, because screens oftentimes activate the reward pathways in the brain, releases dopamine, makes them addictive. So if you're going to give screen time to a young child, the type of screen you use. Life and what you have your child watch matters because it can increase the addictive qualities in the dopamine or decrease that. And so I give a lot of guidance in my book about how to actually go through and look at what is low stimulation. How do you know if a show is low stimulation and better for your child's brain. But in the end, we have to create habits that are supportive for where your child is at developmentally and excessive screen time is always a bad idea.

Laura Bowman:

You know, what I hear in all this is just like, I mean, long gone is the day where it's like, parenting is this passive process, where, I mean, like, even these parents who, like, you know, they think their kids are going to do something for them, emotionally like, oh my god, I have something that's going to love me or, and, and it's just, it's like, parenting is a really intensive job. It's emotionally demanding. There's a lot to learn. You're always a student, and I hope that people are going into parenting more intentionally. I feel like they are,

Devon Kuntzman:

yeah, and just knowing it's not a one size fits all approach, right? I think that's like, the other thing I hear you saying is, like, it's not just the one size fits all approach, and it's it's physically grueling as well these early years, and a lot of toddler parents have a toddler and a baby. They're have a toddler and they're postpartum, or they're pregnant, and it's tough. It is tough. So you've really gotta go easy on yourself and just know that all of these moments where you're feeling a sense of urgency, like you have to have it all figured out right now, or you have to respond right now. That's your stress response trying to trick you into reacting, and that it's more about creating that physical safety and emotional safety and then responding. Because if your child is physically safe, you respond right now, or you respond in five minutes or 10 minutes, 15 minutes, it doesn't matter they're physically safe. No one's going to the hospital. It's going to be okay. Take time to ground yourself, get out of that urgency so you can think clearly. Because if you're on your own emotional roller coaster, you're not going to be able to think clearly. And so I think that that's like, just a really important thing is like, when you start feeling that sense of urgency bubble up, it's a signal to slow down

Laura Bowman:

and have tons of self compassion like, especially like and not all kids. And I have three kids, and every one of them needs different parenting, and some kids are really highly demanding and really push parents to the edge. So it's like having a ton of self compassion for how hard and grueling it can be is. I mean, we talk about that all the time in pretty much every challenge that we face. But I think parenting is a huge place where self compassion has to come in, because that critic of like, you're not doing it right, other women are doing it better. We know it connect, yeah,

Colette Fehr:

yeah, or the fear that you're going to somehow damage your child. I'll just tell one quick little funny tidbit before we wrap up that I'm thinking of and I'll out myself. You can all judge me. Feel free. It's okay. I can handle it. My younger daughter, Curran, who is an amazing human both of my daughters, of course, but I have two daughters with very strong personalities, not that I wonder where they got that from. And one day, I was at my wit's end with them. They were fighting in the back seat, in their car seats. They're just over two years apart, and I was trying to pump gas. I don't remember what was happening, but I was starting to lose it. And I was never spanked as a kid, and I was not a spanker, but I got to a point where I couldn't get them to do what I wanted, or shut the hell up, or whatever it was. And so I said, current, I'm gonna spank you. And I told her I was gonna spank her, and the spanking wasn't hard, but I gave her like what felt it felt shocking to me, because I'm not a spanker. I was just so desperate. And she looked at me, she was three years old, and she said, Is that the best you can do? And I was like, Holy shit, I am screwed with this kid. She is gonna be a wild child. She actually ended up being she was so hard as a toddler, but she was really easy later in life. But I thought, Oh my God. Like, here I was so guilt ridden and desperate, and I thought, I'm spanking my child. And she just looked at me steely eyed, and was like, Is that the best you can do? That's hilarious. I know, I know we laugh about it to this day, so I agree. I think we've got to have a lot of grace for ourselves the way we parented, the way we were parented, the way we're going to grandparent. And it does sound like we're doing a lot better, though, in this generation, with being intentional and aware of the impact we have.

Devon Kuntzman:

Absolutely Yep, it's just all just remember the the recipe for effective discipline that we need to create connection and teach skills just as much as we need to set limits and follow through on them, that they all work together to create that developmentally smart, healthy discipline.

Colette Fehr:

That's it. It. That's a great takeaway. And Devin, before you go tell everybody where they can find you, I know you have huge social media presence where they can get your book, because your book is out now. It just launched yesterday. So let everyone know how they can find you and connect with you and get the book

Devon Kuntzman:

absolutely so you can find my book on Amazon, Target, Walmart, Barnes and Noble, all the normal places you might get your book or you can go to transforming toddlerhood.com. Backslash book, and my website and and my Instagram are all transforming toddlerhood. I kept it easy. You just put transforming toddlerhood in and you'll find me everywhere,

Colette Fehr:

wonderful. And I'm so excited for all of our listeners to get a hold of your book. I mean, I think even if you're not in this phase, this is fascinating stuff, and it's so interesting to see how much it's changed. So everyone go grab a copy of Devon's book and check her out. I'm sure you're gonna see her all over the media this week, as she's promoting the book too. And we really appreciate your time and sharing your knowledge with us today. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun, and we'll have all the links to everything in our show notes as well. We're so grateful to you guys for listening to another episode of insights from the couch, and hope you got some great insights from our couch today. We'll see you next time.

Unknown:

Bye guys. You.