Insights from the Couch - Real Talk for Women at Midlife

Ep.75: Thanksgiving Episode: How to Deal with Difficult Family Dynamics

• Colette Fehr, Laura Bowman • Season 6 • Episode 75

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In this Thanksgiving episode, we’re settling in together—just like we would the night before a big holiday—to talk about the messy, heartfelt, complicated world of family dynamics. Even though both of us are having quieter Thanksgivings this year, we’re deep in our own real-life family seasons, and this conversation comes straight from the thick of it. We explore why the holidays stir up so much, why cut-offs have become so common, and how we can show up for ourselves without losing connection to the people we care about.

We also dive into emotional tolerance, boundaries that actually work in real life, and the surprising ways expectations shape our holiday experience. If you’ve ever found yourself caretaking, peace-keeping, bracing for a “difficult someone,” or wondering how to handle the big personalities at the table—this episode will meet you right where you are.

 

Episode Highlights:

 [0:03] – Opening the Thanksgiving conversation and why this episode feels especially timely
 [1:16] – How our own holiday plans are shaping the way we’re thinking about family this year
 [2:49] – The pressure to perform during the holidays and why “doing less” may feel better
 [3:31] – Colette’s recent family gatherings and the emotional residue they stirred up
 [4:17] – Real stories from reunions and why so many adults are dealing with family cut-offs
 [5:34] – How cut-offs impact entire family systems and why they rarely bring relief
 [7:21] – Understanding emotional bandwidth and the “dial” approach to relationships
 [9:46] – Avoidance, repair, and why making the first move feels so vulnerable
 [11:46] – When someone can’t meet you emotionally—and how to interpret that
 [14:51] – The painful power dynamics created by the least emotionally developed family member
 [16:29] – Caring for everyone but yourself: preparing meals, hosting, and old relational wounds
 [17:22] – The essential role of expectations and how they can make or break a holiday
 [18:46] – Triangulation, family cliques, and protecting your emotional space
 [20:00] – Setting boundaries without being pulled into old patterns
 [21:58] – Self-care strategies when staying with—or hosting—challenging family members
 [23:20] – The nuance of “don’t abandon yourself” and holding two truths at once
 [25:56] – Choosing what’s worth addressing—and what you can let go for your own peace
 [28:09] – Why cut-offs are increasing and the need for a deeper cultural conversation
 [29:45] – Setting limits, protecting yourself, and managing difficult personalities
 [30:55] – Releasing holiday perfectionism and letting the day be what it is
 [33:14] – The power of intention-setting and micro-gratitudes to shape your mindset
 [34:23] – How to soo

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Pre-order The Cost of Quiet now! Colette’s new book, The Cost of Quiet: How to Have the Hard Conversations that Create Secure, Lasting Love, launches February 3rd. Secure your copy today and get VIP bonuses available only before launch day.

Colette Fehr:

Marc, welcome to insights from the couch, where real conversations meet real

Laura Bowman:

life. At midlife, we're Colette and Laura, two therapists and best friends, walking through the journey right alongside you, whether you're feeling stuck, restless or just unsure of what's next. This is a space for honest conversations, messy truths and meaningful change.

Colette Fehr:

And our midlife master class is now open. If you're looking to level up, get into action and make midlife the best season yet. Go to insights from the couch.org and join our wait list. Now let's dive in. Welcome back to insights from the couch. Hi guys. This is our Thanksgiving episode coming to you the day before and Thanksgiving Eve. We're going to get into some family dynamic stuff, because God knows if anything's going to stir the pot with your family dynamics. It'll be Thanksgiving and the holiday season. But we're also kind of excited to be doing this episode really, really close to the time it drops. A lot of times we have to, like, record in advance, and yeah, so we're in the heart of all of this. We're in the throes of all of these family dynamics ourselves.

Laura Bowman:

You know, it's funny though I have nobody coming down for Thanksgiving. It's literally my nuclear family has a week off, and we're gonna decorate for Christmas and chill. So, I mean, I'm gonna have to channel like celebrations past yield family Thanksgiving. But trust me, I can conjure it, no.

Colette Fehr:

And also, I think this could be a good thing, so I too, am not having anybody come. I'm doing a big Christmas in Hawaii with both of my daughters my husband, and ironically, or maybe not ironically, like the Alanis Morissette none of those things were the Alanis Morissette song. None of those things were actually ironic. They were just like, bad luck. Good luck. I am staying we are staying at my ex husband's parents house and celebrating Christmas day with my former sister in law and her husband, which actually will be, should be lovely. So all the family dynamics of that are getting shunted off till Christmas for Thanksgiving Day, my dad, Steve and I ordered Fresh Market. Oh, I love that. And we're having turkey dinner at my house. It's gonna be super chill. I might steal that idea, honestly, yeah. And actually, fresh market, and this is like, a local thing, although you guys, some of you where you live, you probably have fresh market too. Of all the places, I actually like their food.

Laura Bowman:

My family doesn't like Turkey. I mean, my son's like, can we give up the idea of Turkey? Like, no one likes it. And I was like, okay, yeah, we can move on from Turkey.

Colette Fehr:

I like it, I like it, I like stuffing, I like gravy, but I don't really care. I don't have time for Thanksgiving. This year, I'm recording my audio book the three days of the week, the same week. So to me, Thanksgiving is like a forced day of relaxation where I'm going to attempt to rest. I don't want to cook, I don't want to clean, and I'm thrilled I don't have to do a big thing, but I just had super finance family dynamics because I celebrated my dad's 80th birthday party, so I saw my whole extended family on that side. And then right before that, I was in California, where my mom now lives with my brother and his partner, and all of those family dynamics. I

Laura Bowman:

didn't even get a chance to unpack that. I can't wait to

Colette Fehr:

Yes, I know, and I'm like, and I probably shouldn't do all of that on this podcast,

Laura Bowman:

probably not like, maybe we like take the generalized version. Yeah,

Colette Fehr:

I've, I've already gotten in trouble for some of you know how non private and open I am about everything in my life. But you know, just in general terms, as we talk about the holidays, I was at my college reunion last weekend, the Tulane 30th reunion in New Orleans. And I was, it was amazing. First of all, even though I really didn't have time for it, it was so nostalgic and fun. And everybody, even the people who weren't like that nice back in the day, were like, nice. Like, everybody was happy to see everybody 30

Laura Bowman:

years like, sand, some edges off, right? Yeah. And some

Colette Fehr:

people, you know, once you're an asshole, maybe still you're an asshole, but in this case, everybody was lovely and it was just a joyful experience. But I did have a lot of conversations with people about family dynamics, and one thing that struck me is how many people I got into deep conversation with have cut offs in their family. This is when family members no longer there's a rift, and instead of repairing it or agreeing to disagree, they no longer have any communication with a parent a child or somebody in their family is going through that. And, you know, I have some of that in my own families,

Laura Bowman:

yeah. And, you know, I do and, and I was do. An event at the University Club. I run a group with one of my colleagues periodically with some of the and it's an old a group of older people, yeah. And I was shocked by how many people also said that, like, one of their greatest challenges, that they weren't talking to a child or a sibling. And I was like, Wow, this has become, I do not remember this from my childhood. Do you remember it for me years I feel like we endured people, like, I remember certain relatives that you're just like, ah, and you sort of put up with it, but like, we don't do that anymore. No.

Colette Fehr:

And you know, there's been a backlash against therapists for encouraging this. I'm sure you're well aware, in some cases, encouraging younger generation like Gen Z ers to stop talking to their parents. And you know, I just I wrote about this a little bit on my sub stack, secrets from a therapist a couple weeks ago when I went to my dad's party, which was also a lovely event. But it got me thinking about this, that the research shows that family cut offs really don't bring any relief. They actually replace one kind of pain with another, and most people will not feel better having cut somebody off. Now I want to lay out there that there are certain situations where a relationship is really toxic, detrimental, abusive, it's compromising your mental health. There are cases where somebody is better off, and if this is something that's been right for you, you know you and your story. So I'm not trying to say cut offs across the board are bad or that they don't have a place, but I do think what's happened is that many things that could be handled differently if not resolved, worked with in a way that allows you to honor yourself and have boundaries have turned into cut offs when they don't need to, and a lot of the time it's not going to serve

Laura Bowman:

you. And I know you and I kind of agree on this, that relationships are like a dial that you turn up and down that that you don't need to be there's a lot of people you don't need to be in a cut off situation with. You can just sort of mute them or fade out or be less available. But you don't have to be totally removed, because being totally removed is so injurious not only to you, but to the person,

Colette Fehr:

yep, so the rest of the family, yeah. It's just, it's like

Laura Bowman:

the this thing that just sits there. I have one on both sides of my family, my husband's side, we have a cut off that is impacts the whole family. And then we have a cut off on my side too. And it's just, you know, it's just like this dead space that lives inside of the family, and in both cases, I would say that both of these individuals, I would want to call them difficult, but at the same time, I want to call them highly sensitive, like they are so sensitive to other people in the family system, they're so easily aggrieved their expectations are so often not met. So it's like they've had to, like, take in themselves. They've taken themselves out, but it's not good for the family. And I think there's another way. I think it's the

Colette Fehr:

dial most of the time there is. And I think what really and then I want to segue into not just a cut off, but like, what you can do around difficult or challenging family dynamics, because most of the time, this is the answer, not all the time, but most of the time, a lot of it in one particular situation. I was listening to a friend describe over the weekend, it's a parent and a sibling, and this person feels caught in between. And I think this case is really exemplifies what often happens there was like an unfortunate incident where someone's feelings were hurt, the parents feelings were hurt, and we don't know what that parent was thinking or feeling in their head, but they had an outburst, and then nobody has spoken since, and the child, In this case, the sibling of my friend has not reached out to the parent, and the parent has not reached out to the child. And of course, the more time goes on without repair, the harder it is. And a lot of what fuels This is avoidance, right? This is what I write about in my book, the cost of quiet. Even though I'm talking about romantic relationships, it's the same thing that we're avoiding, what feels uncomfortable, or we don't know what to do or how to repair, or we feel aggrieved, and that it's really not on us we're owed an apology, but then when nothing happens, we don't make the first move. And I just want to say, as we segue into this, that I have a lot of empathy for that, because I think it's very difficult to know how to handle yourself and extend an olive branch if you don't have a muscle memory for that, or to even put yourself out there to say, hey, this really bothered me, but I think we should talk about it. And I have a situation in my family that I wouldn't have handled. This way, had I not become a therapist? And that's why I'm bringing this up without getting into too many details that could anger somebody potentially opening my big mouth in a way that's insensitive. You know, something happened where I felt that I was wronged genuinely, and I was pissed off about it, and I was going to let it go for the greater good, but then I was approached in a way that felt like an attack. So I said my piece. I wasn't disrespectful, but I stood my ground, and as a result, I've been iced out. I decided, again, for the greater good, to extend an olive branch. It was very, very I thought generous and tactful. I didn't I didn't apologize. I expressed regret that the interaction had gone the way it did, a willingness to talk about it, a desire to move forward, an openness to hearing this other person's side of the story. And I got nothing, nothing back, not even an acknowledgement, not a heart. You know, I feel like hurting someone's text is about the most bullshit response you can do. I don't like it, but I didn't even get a heart. So I feel like I did all I could there, and I was very intentional about my choice that it wasn't going to cost me my own self. It wasn't a self abandonment gesture. It was a gesture that I felt okay making. But I think we need more of that, that you don't have to say somebody's behavior is okay if there's been a rupture, even just reaching out to somebody to say, Hey, I hate that this happened. I don't really know what to say or do, but I don't want this to turn into like a war of silence that lasts on for years. Are you open to talking? You know, it doesn't cost that much, although,

Laura Bowman:

I mean, it presupposes that the person on the other end is emotionally equipped to have the conversation. No, no, no, I'm no, I'm not. I'm saying you can have the conversation. I've had conversations where I've done much of what you just described, where it's like, can we talk about this, and you hope that the person on the end you your hope is that the person will meet you there, but they had, they may not, they may not, right? And then, and then you're like, that's your information, as we would say, and you kind of have to deal with it, but, but I do feel as though, because I have the same type of situation in my family where I've had really deep process conversations where I thought I was maybe even getting somewhere with this person, only for it to result in, like, dead silence and like, really not wanting anything to do with me. And I have to be okay with that, but I also have to realize that the level of emotional tolerance on the other side is just not well developed, right? Like, for nuance, or to be able to have like, that dialectical thinking, like it's just not there, like they're they feel aggrieved, they feel convicted, they don't they're not good at dealing with their own feelings, and so they just want to shut it

Colette Fehr:

down, right, right, right, absolutely. And that dialectical thinking being the ability to hold multiple truths at the same time, to see things in shades of gray, to realize that one person has their own experience of the event or the wound, and you may have had a very different experience, you're absolutely right. I think the point I'm making is that you can ask yourself, What can I do on my end that doesn't come at the expense of my essential self? Too often, people die on the Hill of pride, right or I wasn't wrong. So I'm not going to reach out, and I'm just trying to encourage people not to let that be the thing. In my case, I extended an olive branch that I felt was very true to myself, but a real opportunity for a repair to happen. And I didn't necessarily want to re legislate the whole incident, because I even said in my message, I think it's very clear that we're not going to agree on what transpired, and that's okay, sometimes that's the case, but my relationship with you is important to me, and I would like to repair this. So I made myself vulnerable, I put myself out there, and I got nothing, and did it hurt? Was it disappointing? Sure, and I'm an adult, I can handle it, and now what I know is that I've done what I can do, and I've made a decision about how I'm going to behave moving forward if I'm around this person, decision that feels right, balancing all the pieces of the equation, honoring myself, thinking about other family members. And it is what it is. So I think the first piece of feedback we want to give everybody is what you already said. Meet people where they are. We are not going to get repair always. We're not going to get people who have the emotional bandwidth to have these conversations in a good way.

Laura Bowman:

And I just want to acknowledge like, I think it because I see this all the time in therapy, where I'm like, helping people navigate these, like, sticky situations in their family and. The sad reality what you described is such a beautiful bit of process. But the sad reality that I just keep coming back to again and again is that the most difficult, most underdeveloped person often gets to sort of hijack

Unknown:

the family they have more control.

Laura Bowman:

Yes, and I just, I'm always like, Oh, like that just seems like so unjust,

Colette Fehr:

and that's what's happened in this case. You know that's what's happened. Now there's a ripple effect into the family. Other people are upset, other people feel uncomfortable. I've done all that I can do, and it's really it is the least developed, the most immature, the most petty, the least communicative, that person has a lot of power, so we do what we can to minimize that. And I think just for people, whether there's a major rift in your family or you're just dealing with a lot of personalities, you know, I even went into my dad's party. It's been a long time now since I've been around like the entire family system and thanking God. Are people going to be like, nice, or is this going to be a lot, or I was mostly excited to see people, but you just don't know. It's a lot of personalities coming together, and so many people are going to spend the holiday really care, taking and preparing a meal and cleaning up, and in some cases, for people you don't even feel like like you or treat you well, it's it's difficult thing to be in,

Laura Bowman:

I know, and you know, that brings me back to the women in my family, and one of the biggest realizations that I've had over the years is to level, set your expectations. I think that is what has sunk every holiday I've ever had since I've been a child, is that my mother and my grandmother had these really unrealistic expectations for like we were gonna have, you know, like a Hallmark movie, Christmas, and it was gonna go a certain way, and everybody was gonna pave a certain way. And it always gets like, it's never that so I am. I've finally gotten to the point where it's like, I realize it's a bunch of messy personalities. I know what kind of show it's gonna be. I have no expectations of how it's gonna go. And that is one thing that really inoculates me from being disappointed. I'm trying to get my mom there. I might never get her there. But,

Colette Fehr:

yeah, I think that's a huge thing. What you said, I think both in terms of that pertains to meeting people where they are, yeah, not having high expectations of the event, of how it's going to go, of how people are going to behave if, like, Uncle Johnny's been a dick since year one, he's probably going to be a dick again, and you know you can control, to some degree, how you let it affect you. It doesn't mean that it all feels good or you're okay with everything this figurative character says or does, but how you internalize it and how you react, you can always choose to respond or not respond, rather than to get reactive or let someone keep you from an event or ruin your day, right? People, other people don't have to have that much power over us. We do have more control than we think,

Laura Bowman:

although, and I think you know, Mel Robbins just actually did a great episode on difficult people. So if people want to do a deeper dive, I actually thought a lot of what she said in that episode was really good. And she said, remember, like, most people are like, overgrown eight year olds, and I think there's some truth to that. And I think that when you're around family, it's so easy, like you've been so sensitized to body language, and like, you know, little schisms have happened. And, you know, people have little little what am I trying to say? I can't find the word.

Colette Fehr:

I don't know. I have menopause. I have no idea what's

Laura Bowman:

the word. People couple off and they like you feel triangulated, or little clicks. There's little clicks in a family. There's all sorts of ways of, like, getting your feelings hurt in a family, Oh, yeah. Or like, why is that person moody? Or like, so it is, like, kind of incumbent on us to, like, make sure we don't get, like, pulled in in old ways,

Colette Fehr:

yeah, and always not to, this came up a lot over the weekend, not to get triangulated. You know, if two people, yes, have beef. You got to stay out of it, and you can let those people know. You know, this is really hard for me. I care about my relationship with you, and I care about my relationship with this person, and so as a result, I am going to choose to and you can set boundaries. I'd rather if you not share about your feelings. I'm not going to communicate as a go between, between the two of you. If you have something that you need to say to her, you'll have to say that to yourself, or find somebody else who isn't as psychologically healed and is willing to unhealthfully do your dirty work. So I think this is where it's I mean, it's true, right?

Laura Bowman:

Oh, that's a mouthful. You have to find somebody who is not as psychologically healed

Colette Fehr:

say that, but you can say what you will and will not do. And I think this whole expectation thing is really the heart of it. I have rolled into all of these events. I mean, I've had weeks now, like a month, when I think about it, the California trip, my dad's birthday, my reunion, and, oh, and then I'm going into Hawaii, right? Three big events with a lot, where I'm staying with a lot of people. And each time, I've kind of centered myself first on what might I need during these things? What do I expect? Nothing, right. I'm going to just make myself. I'm going to take care of myself within the context of whatever's happening. So if you're traveling and you have to stay with family, and one of those family members is really obnoxious to you or mistreats you, and let's not forget, a lot of times there's a lot of history of being wounded by this person. So we don't mean to suggest it's so easy, but maybe in advance, think through what can I do to make this a little more palatable? Maybe it's going out every day for a long walk, or having an escape plan, getting some alone time, having one family member in this system that's really supportive, that you can say, hey, in advance, I feel like this week might be kind of hard on me. Can I reach out to you if I'm struggling? You know, can we talk about it? See if there's somebody you can lean on a little whatever will help you get through because sometimes we do feel trapped by these dynamics, and even just having to suffer through somebody, especially someone who's hurt you. You know, in some cases, people are dealing with people who have abused them, and there's never been accountability. It's it's hard,

Laura Bowman:

yeah, I do a lot of this. When I have people in my house, I like, I told you, I always go for my workout and I always let myself go to bed when I'm done, like, I just, I don't explain bedtime. I'm just like, I'm I'm done, like, bye, you know. And oftentimes the expectation is we're gonna sit up and talk and like, No, we're not like, I'm going to bed, and I'm going to do my workout every day, and I and you're going to understand that that's going to happen. So I have to have little places to make space in order to take care of myself. And this is the thing that I think gets lost with, like, so much therapy talk and where, you know, I think in what is we talk about it all the time. So maybe we're part of the problem is, like, this whole, like, this whole like, Don't abandon yourself. Like, you know, the worst thing you can do is like, abandon yourself. And I think you got to have nuance when you're thinking about that. You can value spending time with family and take care of yourself. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. But I think a lot of people in present day like, don't, don't know how to do two things at once. And so it's like, either I am here and I cater to people and I hate every minute of it, or I choose me, yeah. And it's like, go a level deeper.

Colette Fehr:

Well, and you I think that we don't want to abandon ourselves, but I think to your point, it's getting conflated with this, like, right with this middle ground. And it's so funny you say this because this came up at the reunion with so many people. We were talking about, like, with my close friends, actually, we were sitting around talking about how this great thing in society that we have now of like you do you and you got to put yourself first, and it's not selfish. It's self care that's great, and that doesn't mean we trample over other people. We don't consider them. We don't prioritize our relationships too. It isn't just like my way or the highway. I'm going to do whatever I want, and I don't really give you know, whatever it's really like. I have to make sure I'm not compromising myself in some way that's bad for my mental health, putting myself in a situation that's abusive, silencing myself around something that's perfectly reasonable to express, and when I take care of myself, I have to also keep in mind that we live in a society and that our actions have impact on other people, and we can take into account how we affect those other people with our delivery. It's never wrong to say, You know what? I'm so sorry. You guys want to stay up and talk, and you said you don't explain. That's fine. I'm just using this as an example, but, like, I really have to go to bed. It's been a great day. See you tomorrow, and let people be disappointed, right? But you don't have to go. I don't want to have this conversation. I'm leaving right and storm upstairs. So I think people think that you're either taking care of yourself or, like you said, or you're being this people pleasing doormat, and the truth is that both things are compatible,

Laura Bowman:

yeah, and I think a lot of it is on the front end of these, these trips or these get togethers. Like, be really realistic with yourself, how long you can be your best self? Like, you know, like, I cannot be my best self for 10 days. I have learned that the hard way. Who I cannot, but I can be my best self for 72 hours. We did this then another episode. I don't do we say three or four days was about the max, but I can be my best self for a couple of days with most people, yeah, beyond that, I start to fray. So it's like, be realistic, and maybe you can only handle, like, dinner for a couple of hours. That's like, all you can handle, but, but be realistic about that. Yeah.

Colette Fehr:

And I think part of this too, with people, especially if there's a difficult history, is really deciding, and this is where you have to be tuned in to yourself and get honest with yourself. It starts there. What things you can get let go of that aren't really a self abandonment, but they're just not worth it. They're not costing you anything. Yeah, you know, getting into a huge debate about politics, even if you feel strongly, if it's with someone who's so opposed, they are not going to change their mind, and you're probably just going to become infuriated, and perhaps it could even turn into some kind of a lasting rift. You know, instead, you can say, I really don't want to get into that. This is a day of celebration and fun. Let's focus on that, right? You don't have if somebody's baiting you, and if they're making comments that really rub you the wrong way politically, you know, I'm just using that as an example, but maybe that's something that you can let go of. If somebody does something that really crosses a line, really offends you, is mean to your child, is inappropriate with you, right over steps, then that's something that probably has to get addressed. And unfortunately, in a lot of these families, there's so much avoidance, or there's a lot of pressure to not rock the boat or to not upset a fragile, delicate balance of some of these relationships. And I think this is where we have to go inward to decide what really what really matters, and am I willing and able to speak up if something does cross that line?

Laura Bowman:

Amen to all of that. I agree with everything you said, and yet, I think these cut offs that we're seeing so much of, and I mean, I'm sure everybody listening can think of somebody they know that has a cut off and let even there's probably one in your own family are here to stay. And I think we need to do a deeper dive, maybe on this podcast, about why, like, cut offs are happening at the rate they're happening. Well, let's do a whole episode on cut offs. Let's do a whole episode on the cut off and let's do our own difficult people episode. Yeah. Oh, I know difficult people. You know what? That was a good one, if you I mean, you know how I feel about

Colette Fehr:

her podcast. I'm not gonna listen to it, but I'm sure it was good, yeah. But

Laura Bowman:

if somebody's, like, really, you know, wants to go a level deeper, or, like, wants to listen to an hour and a half on it, oh, that was a good one.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah. I mean, I think one thing is for sure, whether it's a family member, we all have difficult people in our lives, we will interact with them, clients, co workers, family members, friends, siblings, right? I mean, partners. There are some people who haven't done the work. Lots of people never will and never will, and this is where we really have to make peace with that, but also make sure we set our own limits that don't allow ourselves to be totally trampled by those people. And I just think that is sometimes something we say explicitly, and sometimes it's something we do, like what you're describing, where we just carve out some time, we set a limit on how much time we're going to spend with these people, or there are as an alternative to cutting someone out of your life completely. You know, it's saying, hey, I really wasn't okay with this, what you did or what you said, and if that continues to happen, then I'm just going to stop spending time with you because it causes me to feel hurt or shamed or embarrassed or whatever the case, right? We can set some boundaries and give somebody a chance to know where our line is, but certain people are going to continue to be jerks, right? This is like the name of a book. Certain people are going to continue to be jerks, right? Yeah, that's just a fact,

Laura Bowman:

and they get too much control, and that's not fair, right?

Colette Fehr:

And let's not to borrow a phrase from Liz Phillips, who's an if I O, expert, right? And you know this, don't let yourself be hitched to someone else's speed. But. It now you don't want to be dragged around by somebody drowning swallowing water. You know, you are the one who sets the course of your own life. And I do think it's up to us not to have a victim story about it, to realize that we do have some power. We have the ability to speak up about what bothers us in a way that's assertive, but kind to set boundaries, to set limits, to not say yes when we really mean No, especially if

Laura Bowman:

you haven't done it, if you haven't done it, you're going to have to practice, practice, practice, and start and realize that not everybody's going to be so thrilled to hear you having limits and boundaries, right? And those people don't roll out the red carpet and say, oh my gosh, I'm so happy you finally reached this point.

Colette Fehr:

Thank you no to what I really want I was

Laura Bowman:

waiting for that. Yeah. And you know,

Colette Fehr:

I also think, Laura, that when the expectation is low and not in this way of, you know, trying to force yourself to think something you don't think. But I think it's more reminding yourself, you know what? I don't know how this is going to go, and maybe it's going to be amazing, but maybe it's not. And if it's not, that's okay. It's really seeding the need to control the holiday Yes, and the dynamic, and that can be really, especially for women,

Laura Bowman:

that's really a seeding the need to have control, because you don't, anyway, you don't, you know, you know, you get to control when you leave. Yes, this has been so fun, but I'm gonna go, yeah,

Colette Fehr:

yeah, you know, I think the nice thing to me, one of the nice things about I mean, I wish family was all together, my family's kind of spread out. I also, in some ways, miss those days of, like, the fun of Christmas for young children. But on the flip side, one thing that's nice about empty nest is that I don't feel pressure, you know? I don't care if a holiday is like, I'm in my pajamas and hanging out, like I don't feel I'm not even doing a tree this year, although I haven't told anyone else that tough cookies. Like

Laura Bowman:

there's no performance, right? Like the performance piece starts to go a little bit,

Colette Fehr:

yeah, yeah. And I think that's really freeing. And I think if there's a year next year, I may do it to the nines, because I have the time in the space. But this year, I don't, and I'm content instead, to just be grateful that I have so many wonderful, wonderful people in my family and in my life, and like, whatever we do or don't do is is good enough for me? Yeah,

Laura Bowman:

it's a great place to be. I think life can kind of move through you in that

Colette Fehr:

place, yeah, yeah. So on that note, I hope Thanksgiving tomorrow is really good for you guys, yeah, whether you're doing it up or doing nothing, you know, whether your family's amazing or super difficult, you know, really remember that this is an opportunity to take good care of yourself, let a lot of things go,

Laura Bowman:

go into be present to the life you have like, just be present to what's there.

Colette Fehr:

Yep, and think about it a little bit before you go into it. You know, setting an intention is a really powerful way to direct and focus your mindset on what you can control, what's good about the day. I mean, I know it's a cliche, because Thanksgiving is all about gratitudes, but I've started this new little habit. I think I told you this microing everything, but the new habit is like waking up in the morning and, you know, I do my BD fog today is gonna be a great day. Yeah, I've been doing that for a long time, and sometimes it's not a great day, but it sets a good mindset from the beginning, and then I say one thing out loud that I'm grateful for. Yeah, instead of having to write in the journal, I don't even have time for that right now. I don't have time for five gratitudes. I mean, theoretically, I do, but I'm not doing that. I'm doing one thing, and that just shifts my mind into, Wow, there's so much that's good, and it's a great way to start the day. So

Laura Bowman:

even when so much feels like incomplete, or you're still reaching for it, or it's like, not quite right. There still is so much that works. Yeah.

Colette Fehr:

And one last reminder, I want to say, if somebody is really triggering because of your history with them, you know, take a pause. Go breathe, self soothe, treat yourself with compassion. I mean, there are things that can happen that are really, really, really hurtful and can be quite activating. Reach out to a friend or another family member for support. You know, you're not an island, and this stuff can be very, very hard to deal with, but you can soothe yourself and talk to yourself like you would a best friend and really not allow this person who's hurting you to totally hide. Back your mind and your heart. Yeah,

Laura Bowman:

and I it was mentioned in Mel's podcast, but I'll bring it in here. Is that she said, like, and I agree with this. There are times in certain relationships where things have happened that it's like, just not the right season. It's not the right time to be around that person. So depending on if somebody's really recently hurt you. You know, it may not be, this may not be the moment, especially the holiday season, to try to, you know, mend fences, that maybe another time would be better. So be a good judge of like, if you can handle a holiday experience, if certain things are really fresh,

Colette Fehr:

agreed. Okay, that is the perfect note to end on. I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday. Yeah, hope this episode gave you some great insights from our couch, and we will be back next

Laura Bowman:

week. Yep, Happy Thanksgiving. Bye. You.