Ep.77: Why Holiday Burnout Hits Women Hardest and How to Fix It

The holidays are here, and if you’re already feeling that mix of excitement, pressure, and low-key dread, you’re in good company. In this episode, we dig into why holiday burnout hits women so disproportionately hard, how old expectations keep sneaking in, and what we can actually do to reclaim joy, presence, and a sense of sanity this season. From perfectionism and invisible labor to new traditions and deliciously low-effort holiday moments, we’re getting honest about what has to shift.

Together, we explore the inner work, the practical strategies, and the gentle permission slips that help us show up for the holidays in a way that feels good—without losing ourselves or burning out in the process. If you've ever felt torn between wanting magic and wanting a nap, this is your episode.

Episode Highlights:

[0:03] – Kicking off the convo: why holiday burnout hits women hardest
 [1:54] – Laura reflects on past years of over-functioning through the holidays
 [3:08] – The pressure of “perfect” holidays and the invisible mental load
 [4:52] – The struggle of asking for help and shedding generational conditioning
 [6:11] – Family-of-origin expectations and the identity tied to holiday perfection
 [9:03] – The emotional payoff vs. resentment check-in
 [10:08] – Letting go of perfect, simplifying, and knowing your “why”
 [12:22] – Delegation, releasing control, and tolerating the discomfort
 [14:11] – When your aesthetics get in the way of shared experiences
 [15:40] – Creating new rituals and letting go of traditions that no longer fit
 [18:18] – Low-effort connection and shared experiences that truly matter
 [20:03] – Embracing flexibility and shifting holiday dates without guilt
 [21:44] – Managing blended family holidays and redefining “the day”
 [22:22] – Avoiding consumer overwhelm and choosing experiences over stuff
 [23:52] – Gift ideas that foster connection (and zero clutter)
 [25:18] – Silent Book Clubs, parallel play, and refreshing social rituals
 [26:55] – Reclaiming meaningful ritual with creativity and openness
 [27:55] – The power of daily gratitude and shifting the emotional tone
 [28:15] – Preparing for others’ disappointment when you take things down a notch
 [28:40] – Emotional maturity, boundaries, and choosing what truly matters
 [30:01] – Final reminders for a holiday season rooted in joy, not pressure

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Transcript

Colette Fehr: 1:05

Marc, welcome to insights from the couch, where real conversations meet real life.

Laura Bowman: 1:09

At midlife, we're Colette and Laura, two therapists and best friends, walking through the journey right alongside you, whether you're feeling stuck, restless or just unsure of what's next. This is a space for honest conversations, messy truths and meaningful change.

Colette Fehr: 1:28

And our midlife master class is now open. If you're looking to level up, get into action and make midlife the best season yet. Go to insights from the couch.org and join our wait list. Now let's dive in. All right, let's dig right in. The holidays are upon us. I cannot believe how quick this year flew, and today we're going to talk about holiday burnout. Why it hits women the hardest. Makes me crazy how unfair this is, but it is, and then how do we fix it? How do we start to show up for our holidays in ways that we can be present and feel the joy and actually have a good time instead of rolling into January exhausted, depleted and like, if I never see another Christmas tree or menorah or whatever holiday you celebrate, it will be too soon. So let's dig in. This is a big issue. I think it's it's the burden falls disproportionately heavy on women. We already know women bear 71% of the mental load, which is the invisible labor and the cognitive load, which means that we are carrying the anticipation, the organizing, the planning, the reminders for everything it takes to make a household operate, 71% of that is on women. Then you roll into the holidays, and this whole thing is exacerbated. It's magnified and on steroids.

Laura Bowman: 2:55

Yeah, I'm thinking about my own life, and right? I'm in a season where I have older kids, so it's everybody's kind of collectively decided to take the holidays down a notch. But there were years that I'm remembering where I literally, I don't think I was working, but not really where I would spend most of the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas holidaying, me too, sending relatives gifts, buying the perfect amount, which for like, three kids, was always some sort of of trick of like, am I getting enough for this one? I've spent so many trips to the mall to target to buy stocking stuffers balanced do what? How many cookies do I need to make? Should I make dough? How much decorating Should we call somebody to put lights on the house? Should we what do we

Colette Fehr: 3:50

need to get the Christmas card, the family Christmas Oh, the family Christmas production.

Laura Bowman: 3:55

Did we do that soon enough to where we can actually get the picture and then get it out and who are we sending it to? Do we need 50 of them. Are we going to do a more curated set? I mean, it would be the entire month. I know I do none of that now. I do like none

Colette Fehr: 4:10

of Me too. Me too. And I think being a therapist has really helped me to let go of a lot of these things that we're going to share with you today, and this is why we want to share it, because a lot of it is let's just acknowledge, first of all, some of this is societally conditioned. Other people in our lives are still looking to us, for the most part, as women, as mothers, as wives, as women, period, to do these things, there's still that societal conditioning that we haven't been able to shed yet. And one of the big complaints I hear in therapy from women is, you know, and complaints in general, with the mental load is like, I don't want to have to spell out everything. I want you to think about the fact that Jimmy hasn't had his shots and be worrying about planning that while you're at work. That shouldn't fall to me. And, you know, the hard thing is that, in an ideal world, you're right, it shouldn't, but shoulds are also a lie. And so I think what I want to share today is there's a lot a lot of this being different comes from your own inner work, changing the way you narrate certain things. And I want to dive into this more deeply, but for now, again, I always talk about assertive communication, but you do have to ask for help. We have to make the invisible visible. We have to get specific. We have to list out and delegate. We have to let go of perfectionism. So there's a lot of things I want to talk about here, but in some ways, we're in our own way, because as women, we don't always want to have to ask for help, or we think we should do it right, and we've got to get rid of all that, or we're not going to ever enjoy ourselves during this season.

Laura Bowman: 5:53

Well, we have to want to get rid of that. I My biggest obstacle was, I come from a long line of women that like literally. Really were like a Good Housekeeping magazine. I mean, my my holidays growing up were fine china, silver that was polished every year. My grandmother had, like, everything staged out in courses she wore like an apron and flitted around totally. It was like Sinatra was on in the background, like everything was staged beautifully and perfectly. And to me, I've internalized that as the way, and it is really that is the limiter in me is, can I give up the perfectionism and the expectation? Do I want to? And for a long time, it felt like giving up a connection to my, my past, to tradition, to ritual, to say I wanted to give that up like it felt like a loss to ask for help. What No, no woman in my life ever asked for help. They did it. You know, when they hired so they hired a professional decorator. That's how they asked for help, but they didn't, they didn't ask their husband to, like, run to target, to go get lights, which I just did, by the way. Yeah.

Colette Fehr: 7:12

I mean, you're, you're right. I'm glad you're saying this, because I grew up with that too, and the invisible labor was invisible. I mean, my grandmother in particular, managed to take care of everyone in such beautiful style and with such panache. And you never saw her sweat, you know, it was a huge piece of her identity, I'm sure, now, but it created this beautiful, magical thing for all of us. My mom had all the things, the right gifts, the delicious food, the table set. You know, all of that was done, and I took it for granted. And I think we've got to recognize here, when we're describing this, that a lot of people do value that, that as women, we want to create magical memories for our families. So it doesn't have to be all or nothing. I think I'm at a point where I've become an extreme, and that maybe people wouldn't be surprised to hear this, but in my first marriage, I was very much embracing Holly homemaker. I wanted to be that I had seen it too. I had internalized it. I mean, even in the years that I was still working briefly before I had kids, I was very much. I spent a ridiculous amount of time decorating. I wanted every friend to have the perfect gift, every family member, the whole house, like every area of my house, had a little touch of Christmas. I remember being, I don't even know how pregnant, but very pregnant one Thanksgiving, and having my husband's family over, and, like, literally cooking for hours and hours to the point where I couldn't walk because my back hurts so much. And people kept saying, Colette, like, why don't you sit down? We'll help you. No, no, I've got it. I'm doing this. And I made these, like, five pies, and it's just over the top. So it can be beautiful to create a holiday experience for yourself, for your family, and there is some of this that still falls on us. So I don't think even I'm now at a point when I said the extreme where I've like, actually, this year I'm doing nothing because of my book launch coming up, my kids aren't going to be home. We're traveling for Christmas. So I bought a $20 Christmas ornament tree from the Publix grocery store flower department, and that is my only I love decoration this year, and that feels right, like I want my eyeballs to see something that says it's the holiday, because especially here in Florida, it could be July for all we know, right? So I need to know it's the holidays, but I've given myself permission to do nothing this year because that feels right to me. But a lot of us, we're going to want to decorate, we're going to want to do gifts and cook, and it's beautiful and wonderful, but let's do it in a way that we can also preserve our mental health, not exhaust ourselves, yeah,

Laura Bowman: 10:04

and ask check in with ourselves. Like, I think a lot of times it's dependent on a reaction that we get that like other people are so appreciative, or like, oh my gosh, Mom, you did the thing. And as our kids get older, you know, like, I'm not nobody's nobody is, like the cheering section, and, you know, like, I did all the Christmas stuff, and nobody's been like, oh, good mom.

Colette Fehr: 10:27

Wow. So it's nobody's gonna be at your eulogy going, Oh, my God, she did Christmas dinner.

Laura Bowman: 10:33

She could put a ribbon on a tree like no other I would. And I actually said to a friend that I cooked Thanksgiving dinner, and it was just the five of us, and even my family is like, you don't need to, like, do this. It's just the five of us. And I said, I want to, I want to, right? Because I feel connected to like my grandmother. I feel connected to my grandmother when I make her recipes. That was for me, right? That was a ritual for me. And so it fills me up. It doesn't really matter if everybody else is so thrilled about it, because beforehand, I knew it was for me,

Colette Fehr: 11:10

you know, love that yes or and maybe it's for somebody else. But then this is back to that, like, what are you gonna resent? Like, I think we've got to go inside, yeah, and figure out what. Let's get curious. Why are we doing this? Is this just something I've done every year, and now it feels like a to do when it's not, because our first tip is really, let's let go of perfect and simplify, right? So let's do a little gentle, inward inquiry about getting clear on why you're doing it. How important is it to you? Why is it important? What is the thing that you're going to get out of it? And you know, the yes or no to something is going to be very personal and unique to you. I don't care if I ever I have this beautiful Tiffany Christmas China I really do love it's just not a priority to me at this stage of life, and it may be again, you know, but right now, like the thought of hand washing all of those plates just for the 10 minute dinner and spending all day cooking like no thank you, I'd rather have Chinese food and go to the movies, and that's What's right for me at this stage of life, but if you want to pull out your Tiffany China and hand wash the dishes and cook a meal, okay, great. But know why is it? Because you're going to have this meaningful experience with your family, and you really want everyone to enjoy it and be together, and it's worth the effort, great. And then let's ask yourself, is there some part of this that I can delegate? I think that's really number two. When we say, make the invisible visible. Yes, sure, men, other people in our families should be thinking about these two, but they're not. So let's make it really clear and say, Hey, this year, I'm overwhelmed. I need you to do the gift wrapping, I need you to decorate the tree, and I need you to wash the Tiffany China, just to use the same thing, right? And can you agree to those things that would really help me a lot. And then this is the key. You have to let it be,

Laura Bowman: 13:23

yes, that is always the hardest thing, especially if you're a woman and you're the creator of magic and style in your home to watch the half assery of a partner, it's like, oh, like, I just can't and so you have to be Okay for that, you know, and or they

Colette Fehr: 13:43

whole asset, and it still doesn't look good.

Laura Bowman: 13:47

I mean, I honestly just to, like completely out myself. I still fold wash for five people, because I cannot stand the way anybody else but me folds wash, and I will be experimenting with giving that up. But I just am such a rigid perfectionist around the way I want things folded that it's like, I don't let people touch it, but then I can't be resentful that I'm doing the wash for five people.

Colette Fehr: 14:12

That's the perfect example. And I think that we're what we have to check in with ourselves on is, if I'm going to resent this, then that probably means I'm doing more. I'm crossing my own boundaries, and I probably need to find some way to give some of this up, and letting yourself be okay with that doesn't have to feel good. You know, some of this is going to feel uncomfortable, right? Like, if you let your kids decorate the tree and the tree looks like a shit show ornaments on one side, yeah, yeah. It's totally like, not even I can get very obsessed with esthetics of something same, you know. And I've been accused every year of like, I start out wanting everyone to do the decorations together, that we're all gonna have fun with it, and then I get bossy. I'm like, No, this isn't spaced out right? And this has too many balls and and by the time the trees done, everybody's gotten frustrated with me and been like, you do it. And then I'm happy, and then I'm happy.

Laura Bowman: 15:13

I'm like, I but be real with yourself. You know, maybe it is just you are happy with that,

Colette Fehr: 15:19

yes, and I would say that that's something, you know. Next year we're going to Hawaii this year, so when we're not doing a tree, there's no point when I'm leaving on the 20th I do not want to come home and spend hours dissembling the tree, you know, like right on the eve, a month before my book launches. So no tree. But the next time I do it, I think that would be something I could practice with a little bit like, Wouldn't it be more important to have a fun family experience than me being obsessed with how my tree that no one sees but us looks it's kind of pathological,

Laura Bowman: 15:57

it is. And another tip is that I think. In it, just to my point of pulling forward old family traditions from, like, the 1950s into the present day. You know, and my family like, sort of looks at me like, like, do we even like this particular food? It's like, yes, we like it because my grandmother liked it. You know, 60 years ago. Check in with people about what are some of the new rituals that you could practice? Because I bet that. I know my kids are like, let's go, like, rent a house in North Carolina when Thanksgiving, let's just, we don't even need to be here. Let's go do something different, yeah, and be open to creating new kinds of traditions and memories.

Colette Fehr: 16:41

I love that. I really, really love that, right? Some things we're doing just because they're on repeat, and maybe they're not serving you anymore, and there's an opportunity to do something really fun and irreverent, like this year for Thanksgiving, I wasn't going to have either of my kids, and I just had my dad and Steve and I, and we decided none of us felt like in past years when it's just us, we've gone out to dinner. I didn't even feel like doing that. We ordered the turkey dinner from fresh market. We heated it up. It was delicious, and we all like, I was in yoga pants, in a north face and we watched football all day, and it was like, so fun, you know? Yeah, we gave ourselves permission to just reinvent it and let it be what we wanted it to be, not what it should be. So and I want to give another tip along these lines, which is about low effort, family togetherness, that this is really I just wrote an article about this, which is why it's top of mind. And I think I'm thinking about this a lot this year, that at the end of the day, the best thing about the holidays is being the best thing in life is being with the people you love, whether that's family or friends, whoever your inner circle is, and enjoying quality time, feeling connected, laughing together, playing together, our soul, our spirit, needs this, right? This is what's going to nourish and nurture us. So there are a lot of ways, instead of obsessing over the table scape, the tree, the gifts, the Christmas card, you know, do what you want with those things that works for you, but make the priority being with the people you love. And there are things you can do that do not require a lot of effort or expense that you will remember, right? Like getting out board games. Get off your devices, play a game, play charades, you know, do, like, go to a farmer's market together on a Saturday and have everybody pick out one like, random food that's interesting, and then go on a family picnic, go try a new restaurant or a cuisine you've never tried, go look in a neighborhood, drive to another town and look at Christmas lights. I mean, you know, there's so many things you can do, even going on a walk in a new location, taking a hike. We need novelty and we need things that boost oxytocin, which is the bonding hormone and that often comes through shared experiences. I mean, you could even do, I'm going to pull from the Laura Bowman book and say, Get 1000 piece puzzle and put it together as a family.

Laura Bowman: 19:19

That's nobody ever helps me. They all look

Colette Fehr: 19:22

yeah, and I wouldn't help you either, but some families will enjoy that. Or make make vision boards. Like, decide that you're all gonna make vision boards and do it as get out there

Unknown: 19:33

rubber cement. Yes, yes, go old school. I'm getting

Laura Bowman: 19:36

excited now. I know right. I want to do that. No, you're right. Like, I think if you're laughing, it's a

Colette Fehr: 19:45

good holiday. Oh, my God, that's the whole thing. Yeah, that that was the perfect little tagline some ad, some companies should steal that from you for their average, if you're if you're laughing, it's a good holiday.

Laura Bowman: 19:59

Yeah, we used to play old maid. That was like a thing that we did as a kid. We have this, like, old we have a couple old maid decks from, like, way back in the day, and we would sit there and howl as, like, some we knew somebody got stuck with the old maid, and it was just so funny. Like, we're gonna do that again this year,

Colette Fehr: 20:17

yes, and like, we'll play. We have certain games that we like play every year or every so often that we played when my kids were little, like apples to apples. Yeah, you know where you come up with these zany definitions or headbands. They have a digital version, but where you put, we have the hard, the physical version. You put the thing on your head, and then you have to ask yes and no questions until you figure it out, or even the game, sorry, which really requires no strategy, but we all love these things are so easy and fun, and you laugh and you're silly and you're not on your devices and you're not stressing out running around like a chicken without a head about a bunch of. Stuff that nobody's gonna remember anyway, right?

Laura Bowman: 21:04

I completely agree. A couple other things I would say is, don't be afraid to add flexibility. And I mean, this Thanksgiving, I rescheduled Thanksgiving. We actually did it on a Wednesday, because my son worked Thursday, and my daughter was heading out of town. And I just was like, All right, we're gonna move it, you know, I'm not gonna sit there and be like, I can't believe you guys aren't gonna be here for Thanksgiving, you know. And, like, run a guilt trip or it's just like, No, we're gonna move it, and we're gonna still enjoy it, and we're gonna shift and just move with whatever's happening.

Colette Fehr: 21:36

And it's good. It was great. Yeah, it was great. I'm a big fan of that. And I've had to do this a long time because of being divorced being a blended family. You know, years ago, I decided that instead of feeling sad that I didn't have my kids on a given Christmas or splitting the Christmas, and no problem if that's what works for you. But we alternated here so I could go to New York with my kids the year that I had them for Christmas, and we could have a big New York Christmas, which is really fun, and that's where my family is. And then on the years I didn't, I'd have Christmas sometimes five days before, and that day was Christmas, and it felt like Christmas, and we did our presents and our things. And I had years that on Christmas day I was by myself, but I wasn't unhappy. I would read all day, or, you know, have the data myself, because I already had Christmas with my kids. So especially as a lot of you guys, you know, may not have young kids, and some of you may be at the point where your kids are getting married or having families of their own, you're gonna have to start being sharing, yeah, and let that be okay,

Laura Bowman: 22:45

and yeah. And actually, if you can be flexible, you're gonna retain the, you know, your kids around longer than if you are inflexible, because then they're gonna have to start setting boundaries with you. And, you know, saying, like, hey, look, it can't all be your way. So practice flexibility. And then I guess my next thing would be, don't get sucked into the spending. I don't know if you guys are already, I have tons of like, Black Friday holiday like, I'm just getting bombarded with offers. You do not have to go and spend a ton of money during this time of year. You can really see around the marketing on this. Yeah.

Colette Fehr: 23:23

And also, I want to add to that, that gifting experiences instead of stuff, we have such a problem with conspicuous consumption, especially in the United States. For those of you guys who are listening here, it's ridiculous. Who needs more stuff? I mean, if there's something really meaningful that this person wants great, but it can be so much more powerful to you know, I just recently, for example, heard of here where we live, that there's this new lipstick bar where you can go and, like, make custom we should go do it. It sounds kind of fun. It does sound and I thought, what a fun gift for a friend. Maybe we'll give that to each other and we'll go do it together, you know, like that would be so fun. And then we have a day where we can just hang out as friends. We have an experience, we'll laugh, and something like that is adult parallel play, which is also really healthy and fun, where you're side by side in an activity, but you don't even have to be that engaged, right? You bond through doing the activity together. It's something toddlers do that is still really healthy and useful for us as adults. So think about making your gifts this year an actual experience. It's so thoughtful when somebody opens a card and there's a gift certificate to go do something, or even just a note that says, you know, I'm taking you. You've always wanted to skydive, and I've planned it, and I'm taking you, and if we survive, we're going out to lunch afterwards.

Laura Bowman: 24:54

Please don't ever give me that gift. Don't worry, I don't I am too afraid for that

Colette Fehr: 24:58

well, and it's funny on our like, family thread with Steve and my daughters, we're all going to Hawaii. Steve's never been to Hawaii. Curran, my younger daughter, is now living there, and Charlotte is coming with and current started this thread about, like, let's do a helicopter ride. And I was like, Hell to the no, I've done it once in Hawaii. Yeah.

Laura Bowman: 25:22

How many helicopter accidents have you heard about? Too many, too

Colette Fehr: 25:25

many, too many. And you know, Charlotte and Kern were like, Well, Mom, you're the buzz kill. And nobody said you have to come. But we all want to go. And Steve will go. And Steve sending these memes of like helicopters crashing to the side of a mountain. I'm like, you guys, please don't ruin this trip for me, like I will be on land knowing you're all up there in that little bubble that isn't even, it isn't even scientifically able to fly, like I'll have a nervous breakdown. Yeah, no, it's that's not my kind of fun. No, my kind of fun is the lipstick bar of. Vision board, good meal. Yes, exactly. We're on the same Yes, a puzzle, exactly. Okay, so one, one final tip, a good book. Oh, and that's one other idea before I give this final tip, you know the silent book clubs have taken off. Have you heard about this?

Laura Bowman: 26:19

No, what's a silent book club? So it's

Colette Fehr: 26:22

so strange to me, in a way, as such a talker, extrovert, but people all over, especially in bigger cities, they've really taken off. There's a designated time and place, and it's meant to be, in particular, an introvert social activity. Even though I'm such a reader, right? I like to read home alone by myself, but in this you come with your book and you read, and you all read together. Oh, I know. And then you can have a little sticker on that says whether you want to chat at all, whether you're open to chatting a little, or whether you just want to be left alone and read. So it's an I know. So it's another idea, though, that you could even back to the parallel play in an activity, meet up with a friend, grab a coffee, and then, like, sit somewhere and read.

Laura Bowman: 27:16

Yeah, and finally, I would say, like, I just met with a friend who's reading a book, and I've got to get find the title, and I'll put it in the show notes, but it's all about the disappearance of ritual, and I think that that is a huge problem for us as a society right now, and I think that's what we're all trying to do with the holidays, is to infuse our life with a sense of ritual, and I think be creative with that process. Do it. I think we all need it as humans, yeah, but be flexible, be open, be creative, be irreverent. And yeah, yeah. We all want that.

Colette Fehr: 27:56

I love that. And one final thing is practice gratitude. This is low hanging fruit for your mental health. It's scientifically proven that people who have a daily practice of gratitude, whether you say it out loud or write it down, whether it's one thing you're grateful for every day or five, those people live longer. They enjoy better mental health. And it can really help to shift your brain out of the negativity bias, out of the chaos and the stress to remember what you're grateful for. Sometimes it's super specific and small. Sometimes it's big things, like this morning, my gratitudes were my family members, my health and the fact that there are opportunities and possibilities in life. Another day it might be I'm so grateful for this hot cup of coffee, but take the time it can. You could do this in 90 seconds to think about and notice what's good in your life. It's so important for your brain and your mental health.

Laura Bowman: 28:56

And I'm going to say one more thing, and then that will be it. But I feel like we say this on every podcast, but it bears repeating. If you're going to take the holidays down a notch, you may disappoint people. You know, if you don't send the Christmas card, you may get kicked off the list. I've officially have two, three cards that show up to the house now, because

Unknown: 29:17

I haven't sent a card into

Laura Bowman: 29:18

like, 10 years, right? But like, be prepared that if you're gonna take the holidays down a notch. There may be a like, Huh, oh, really, you're not. We're not doing like, 10 gifts a piece this year. Oh, okay. Or we're not yet like, that is there may be an adjustment period where you're looking into the face of some people who are like, really. Like, okay, this is what we're doing,

Colette Fehr: 29:41

and it's okay to disappoint people. I'm so glad you said this. I think it's the heart of it all. And if it doesn't feel okay to disappoint people, that's okay too, and it doesn't mean you shouldn't learn to do it, because taking good care of ourselves and becoming emotionally mature adults does mean that we learn how to tolerate other people's disappointment, we have to live our lives for us, which doesn't mean not being mindful of the impact we have on others, caring about others, it just means that it's our job to look after our health and our interests and not throw ourselves under the bus to avoid disappointing other people and their expectations. And truly. Final. Final, again, in your eulogy at your funeral, nobody is going to talk about how you did the tree, the food you made. They're really not. They're going to talk about how you made them feel, the moments that they laughed with you. So let's all really try. Laura and I are going to be doing this with you trying to really focus on what's important this holiday season. Ask for help when we need it. Tolerate the discomfort of disappointing somebody. Let it be messy. Start some new rituals. Be flexible, be creative, and let's try to have fun and really live in the joy of the moment.

Laura Bowman: 31:02

Amen. Amen. Holidays.

Colette Fehr: 31:04

All right, guys, good luck. Happy Holidays, and we will see you next week. We hope you got some great insights from our couch, and thanks for listening. You.