EP 78: The “Superwoman” Trap That Leads to Midlife Burnout with Nora Neiterman

In this deeply honest episode, we sit down with Nora Neiterman, creative director, brand strategist, and founder of Unsweetened New York, to talk about what happens when success comes at the cost of yourself. Nora shares how building a powerful, authentic brand while juggling motherhood, caregiving, and perfectionism eventually pushed her into full-blown burnout, and why ignoring the warning signs is so common for women in midlife.

Together, we explore the hidden toll of living in constant overdrive and why healing doesn’t start by doing more, but by slowing down. Nora opens up about perimenopause, grief, nervous system work, psychedelic therapy, and the surprising ways her creativity returned once she finally listened to her body. If you’re feeling exhausted, disconnected, or quietly wondering how long you can keep going like this, this conversation will land.

Episode Highlights:

 [2:01] – From fashion school to building Unsweetened New York
 [4:00] – The moment that sparked the brand and why authenticity resonated so deeply
 [7:35] – Why women connected so powerfully to unapologetic messaging
 [9:31] – Advice for women with an idea who feel “too busy” or “too late”
 [12:28] – Why midlife is actually the prime time to pivot and build something new
 [14:24] – When passion turns into pressure and the freight train won’t slow down
 [17:56] – Early warning signs of burnout that are easy to ignore
 [19:52] – Sleep deprivation, stimulants, and living in constant overdrive
 [22:08] – Perfectionism, resentment, and struggling to ask for help
 [25:46] – Perimenopause, grief, and the slow approach of the wall
 [31:21] – Starting over with micro-steps instead of more “stacking”
 [33:15] – Psychedelic therapy, intention setting, and unexpected healing
 [35:52] – Letting go of alcohol, stimulants, and old coping mechanisms
 [38:56] – Reconnecting with creativity by learning how to feel again
 [39:58] – Final reflections on authenticity, healing, and choosing yourself

Links & Resources:

Unsweetened New York Website: www.unsweetenednewyork.com

Unsweetened NY on Instagram: @unsweetenednewyork
Nora on Instagram: @noraneiterman

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Transcript

Colette Fehr  0:03  
Welcome to insights from the couch, where real conversations meet real life.

Laura Bowman  0:08  
At midlife, we're Colette and Laura, two therapists and best friends, walking through the journey right alongside you, whether you're feeling stuck, restless or just unsure of what's next. This is a space for honest conversations, messy truths and meaningful change.

Colette Fehr  0:26  
And our midlife master class is now open. If you're looking to level up, get into action and make midlife the best season yet. Go to insights from the couch.org and join our wait list. Now let's dive in.

Laura Bowman  0:40  
Welcome back to insights from the couch. We have a great guest today. We have Nora niederman. She is a creative director, brand strategist and spiritual badass, helping women reconnect with their identity, healing and creative expression. She is the founder of unsweetened New York, a fashion label born from motherhood and womanhood that grew into a movement known for its unapologetic storytelling and soulful edge. After years of building a wildly successful brand while juggling motherhood, caregiving and perfectionism, Nora hit burnout and began a powerful journey of healing through psychedelic therapy, nervous system work and radical authenticity. Today, she's merging creativity and consciousness, helping women design lives and brands that feel as good as they look. Yay. I love that.

Nora Neiterman  1:40  
I love hearing it back, right? Yeah, she's pretty awesome. Now, who is that? Well, thank you guys. Thank you so much, Laura and Colette for having me. Thanks for being here. Yeah, I love this conversation, and I'm ready to get into it. Let's, let's dive

Laura Bowman  2:01  
deep, yeah, let's take us back to the beginning. Like, how did it start? I mean, your job has always been a brand strategist. Like, what was the career for you here?

Nora Neiterman  2:10  
Yeah, the career for me. So I went to fit so I went to the Fashion Institute, and, you know, that was my design was always my thing. I was, for sure, an undiagnosed ADHD dyslexic child. So what I really sunk into was art. So I always just had the I always wove it in. I my first job out of college was working for Macy's doing the windows, which was, sounds so glamorous, right? It was not. It was hammers, ladders. I'll never forget when my mom came in and she was like, Oh my God, my daughter, and she saw me with the hammer and the nails and the ladder. She's like, What are you doing? I was like, This is what it is. It's grit. And then I worked in textiles for home furnishings, and then I started my own company and in design and color, which I did, all home furnishings, product development packages for Target, Walmart, bye, bye. Baby. Babies are us. That was like a big industry for me, restoration, hardware, Pottery Barn. So when that industry started, started shifting, did I just say sharded? Oh, my God,

Laura Bowman  3:21  
but that's funny. That's, that's perfect and slim, yes,

Nora Neiterman  3:27  
when that started, okay, ignore it. Get back to it for me. Okay, when that's,

Unknown Speaker  3:39  
usually does, my

Nora Neiterman  3:41  
boys are gonna love this. They're gonna be like, Oh my god. Okay. So when the industry started shifting, I was in the dressing room in the they were maybe five and seven at the time, and it was chaos. It was wrestle arena. It was they were, you know, two boys in the dressing room trying to find a shirt. The shirts that I were trying on were just terribly cut. My gut was hanging out. My boob, side boob. It was just like, where is the where's the tea and the tank designed for, like, real women who have had kids who aren't a size two, and and then the messaging. That was the biggest thing for me, the messaging was all about stay calm. Do yoga. Stay calm, carry on. And I was like, this is the biggest

Colette Fehr  4:28  
bullshit ever. Keep calm and carry

Nora Neiterman  4:31  
on, calm. And there was no carrying on. And I was like, What about the real women that are dealing with this bullshit in the dressing room? Like there's got to be more of us. So that was where the aha moment started. And then it was just like, wildly enough. I just, I had never started a fashion brand, and one thing happened, and I was like, Okay, I'm going to design 10 designs. I want to make it in the US, because everything else that I. Ever done was all manufactured overseas. We'd have to strip the details out for an opening price point product. And I wanted to do the opposite of that. I wanted to have a high quality, really bad ass for, you know, a higher end product for women that really wanted to be edgy and sexy and wanted to wear their messaging like a mood ring on their body and owning all of all of it. So one of the first designs was psycho mother. That was, I love it seller, because it was like, you know, we all have those moments. And you guys as therapists, I don't need to tell you is that, you know, we all try our best to do the gentle parenting of like, okay, guys, come on, you know. And then you try your best, and then all of a sudden, it's like a snap, you're screaming. It's like you turn into an absolute monster. And so it was, but then the other side of that shirt was, there was a shirt that said, Love my boys, which I think was one of the top sellers. And so, yes, there's psycho mother, but there's love my boys, and there's come to crazy. And it was, it was a shirt of what you were feeling in that day that you could walk out and go drop the kids off at school and wear the psycho mother. And it was like, everyone was like, oh shit. She's don't mess with her today. Like, I get you sister. So it really started with this, this very small vision. I never thought, oh, I want to take this thing and grow this and be it was not that. It was very simple and it was really just to a side hustle to pay for my son's school for dyslexia, and that's all it was, because I was still working on my other job. And I never, I never thought beyond just, you know what it was, and it was that was beautiful, because it was so organic, and it was so there was no outcome. It was just like, let me do and get my message out and let me connect with women. So it wasn't like I set out to build this business. My business plan was on a piece of like, copy paper. Then those 10 TS just became they were tank tops, and they were designed, they were made in LA and they were just great. They fit great. And the messaging was great, and then it just grew from there, the next collection, and it just carried on the moods and the this vibration of women and and honesty and authenticity of all the things so that, and that's

Colette Fehr  7:35  
why it took off, right? Yeah, because you were speaking the truth and people related, you weren't trying to build an empire. No, you were trying to give women a quality product that said out loud what they were feeling inside. And that's why people loved

Nora Neiterman  7:50  
and that's why people loved it. And it was an awesome it was an awesome body. It's an I designed the best t shirt, all of the things, the fabric, but the messaging is what really grew the brand. And so I just loved when I was designing. It was just like it would flow out of me effortlessly, you know, you knew what was going on in my life by what I was designing. And the most important thing, it really resonated with other women. You know, I would get emails in saying I wore the I done, I'm done shirt to my divorce.

Laura Bowman  8:25  
I need that. Oh, I need that one. Yeah, well, that, that's our tagline,

Nora Neiterman  8:29  
is I Oh, I need that. So the I'm done, I got a thing from a woman an email, and she said I just wanted to tell you I wore the I'm done, Blaze, I'm done T under a Veronica beard blazer to my divorce settlement, and I felt so empowered, and I was like and that is why I did it, because I wanted to be in service of a way to let women know you're not alone, like when you're feeling your absolute worst, or you're feeling like the kids are driving you crazy, or you're a bad mom, or you lost your shit this morning, like you're okay, we got you. We're all together in this and in this sea of perfectionism, which we live in, in Instagram. And you know, it's so hard to just go on your phone and you're like, Oh, everybody is crushing it. And the this was a a like flag to all the women of saying, You know what, you're not alone.

Colette Fehr  9:31  
Oh, it's so I can see why it resonated so much. I want every single t shirt I know I was mentioning the I'm done one definitely the I'm done, I want to wear that every day. So tell me this. There's so many different directions here. But for a woman who's got an idea, I love how you're describing that this just came to you in this very real, organic moment. It would have been so easy to say, Oh, that's a cool idea. But, like, whatever I don't have. Time for it. I'm too busy. I got a job. I'm a mom. So what would you say to somebody who has an idea about starting their own business or taking a chance?

Nora Neiterman  10:10  
I love this question, and it's so simple, and it's just, just start. Just start, start. Messy. I think, yeah, just get into it. And the most important thing, I think Colette, is, like, if you have a pat, you have to, it has to be in here. You know, my and I'm no business coach, I'm just speaking from what I feel, if it's not in here, it can't be out here, like it has to be in your heart. And if it's in your heart, you know, just start and, and if you can, just start and worry about perfecting later, because so many times we as women, we get hung up with all of the details and the and the, you know, the self doubt and the the limiting beliefs and all of those things, or, or, or, or also limiting beliefs of others, right? You know, even the people that we love the most, you share, and I Oh, hey, I have an idea, they're like, No, six, six people will

Colette Fehr  11:10  
rain on your party, and it can get in there and get shut us down.

Nora Neiterman  11:15  
Yes, it can get in there. And so my, my biggest takeaway from all of that would be, just start and just try and surrender the outcome of what it's going to be. Because, yes, look, business plans are great and all of that. But, you know, I think it's good to get scrappy. I think you got to learn every if you want to go in your business, learn the shit out of everything. Like, you know, such good advice. Bootstrap it. Don't go out and, you know, get a bunch of money from like, just be in the trenches of this passion, and then you're going to find out quick. Hey, do I really want to do this? Like, this is, you know, you're gonna find out if you're in the trenches, if you're getting scrappy with your idea, it's gonna tell you whether you're gonna continue or not. And until, I feel like, until you really get into it, you don't really know. So that would be my advice.

Laura Bowman  12:16  
I totally agree. And but I'm assuming that this side hustle, like took off. Like, did this now become like your Do you quit your job, and this becomes the business front and center.

Nora Neiterman  12:28  
It then starts picking up, which was fantastic. And then, you know, like any freight train. And just give you a frame of reference, I think I was probably 42 when I started this job. And this is another thing that I want women to know is like, you know what? Let's say you've been something for the last 25 years, and you don't want to be that anymore, or you want to pivot. It's okay, you can. And we are at the most, unbelievably smartest, wisest time of our life as mid, late, middle aged women, like we're, we could fucking do anything, you know, with whatever it's, it's, we could do anything. So if you are listening and you're like, Oh, I'm in my 40s, I feel this. It is like, now you are, like, at the absolute best time, because this is the prize. This is the prime one. We don't take any shit, and it's like we're just like, finding our voice and power. So anyway, we'll get back to you're

Laura Bowman  13:28  
just as far in as you'll ever be out. You know, like you're half a like you're in the middle, like you got all the wisdom and energy. That's such a good time.

Colette Fehr  13:36  
Yeah, right. We're primed at this age to really follow the passion and do something with that that can help so many other people and be such a source of fulfillment, because we are more confident. We do know who we are. We're not going to take shit the way we might have in our 20s and 30s. We finally shed a lot of that. So it is the perfect time to do something. And I really love that you're saying, Don't focus on the outcome. I always talk about that too. Detaching from outcome dependence, yeah, just follow the passion. Follow the idea. Do it? Let it unfold organically. And as you're steeped in it and it's messy, you're going to know if this is what you really want and if it's right. And there's no way to know till you're in the mud. Yeah, get in there, yeah. And just get

Nora Neiterman  14:24  
going, yeah. And don't, and don't go throwing a bunch of money into it right away. Like, just, just, just get into it so that. So, yeah, that's definitely a big, big thing. So things started picking up, which was amazing. And I then, you know, started from one collection to multi collections, two seasons a year, then three seasons a year. And so as I'm now, I'm going into my mid 40s, and I'm still raising the kids, and I'm growing the brand and taking on, you know, to. Showrooms and people out in LA and all of the things. And I used to travel every other month to LA to do production and sampling. And I love that it was so creative and and so amazing. And it was a beautiful love story, because when it was right, it was so right, when you're in flow, when things are coming to you as a creative person, it is like magic. Yes, you grow the business. The more you grow, the more money you put in. You know, it's not just like, Oh, I'm just taking money, taking money. You have to then start putting money into the business photo shoots, you know this that samples all the things that cost money. So now you start investing into this business, though, the brand started really taking off, getting into amazing boutiques, lots of them higher end boutiques that sold like designer denim, like mother denim frame, and it became a piece that a real statement piece, the shirts that you would wear under a nice blazer or leather jacket, day to night, women were wearing it to the gym, and yet they were wearing it like dressed up at night. So as I kept getting more, what do you what happens when you kept keep getting more, you want more, right? So it's like, Okay, let me on a treadmill. Yeah, yes, let me, let me do another collection. And then the pressure starts coming from, you know, the showrooms like and, and believe me, all fabulous, but nobody really prepares you for starting a company that was like, Oh, this is fun, you know, let me put my heart and my creativity and my soul into this, and then from there, like all of the things, I didn't have the tools to kind of navigate all of it, including, that's just the business side of it, but including the home side at home, my Boys things that they were struggling with. My mom was dying, being her death doula, and you just keep piling it on, right? Like Us women, we're like, oh, let me just because we don't know it when we're in it. And part of me sharing this story Laura and Colette is that I want to help women before they get to the place where they're under the desk and they feel like the walls have caved in. Because, yes, because they're looking back, there were signs, and I avoided them, because we're told as women that we can have it all. You can have it all and you can, but you can have it all at the same time.

Colette Fehr  17:44  
Yeah, right. And you have to take care of yourself if you're really going to have it all. So wait before we get into that part, what were some of the signs? Because I think this is what people really need to hear as you look back. Yeah.

Nora Neiterman  17:56  
So the signs for me were, I was taking Vyvanse at the time. And if I being completely honest, I took Vyvanse, yes, to make me more focused, but it really turned me into like super worker, like I would crush shit.

Colette Fehr  18:16  
You could just go 100 miles an hour and not stop and not stop.

Nora Neiterman  18:20  
And it was like that limitless. You ever see that movie Limitless with Bradley Cooper? So, yes, it was prescribed. And I'm a big believer of medicine. I've had been on different medicines in my life, and I'm a big believer of mental health. And, you know, but, but the ADHD medicine for me was like, that was the first thing. I was not abusing it, but I definitely used it to turbo turbo myself,

Colette Fehr  18:49  
maybe pushing pushing too hard,

Nora Neiterman  18:52  
to pushing too hard, and then with that came the lack of sleep. The lack of sleep was, and I'm not talking about a few nights. I'm talking about a few years of just,

Laura Bowman  19:03  
yeah, is that stimulant use? I mean, do you think that's like, Vyvanse usage, like extended release, where it's like, you just can't fall asleep? Yeah, I feel like stimulants are such a jagged edge for sleep.

Nora Neiterman  19:15  
But I also worked on, I started this schedule of like, I'd get the kids to bed, I'd be mom, and then around 10 o'clock, I would go back down to my office, and I would work until like, two in the morning, and then I would have couple of glasses of wine, you know. So these, I'm talking about some of the things that interloped into like, what are the signs so lack of sleep, drinking. And I'm not talking about drinking that you're getting drunk, but I'm talking about couple of glasses of wine every night that you don't even think about it, right? Like it's like nothing,

Laura Bowman  19:52  
just taking the little self medication, little self self medication, little

Nora Neiterman  19:56  
self medication. And then the just. The lack of presence. I was really never present fully. You know, I remember, even if I was doing stuff with my kids, I was always like thinking, Oh, my God, I have this like it was this overhang of responsibility of the business and and, by the way, I haven't mentioned this, but I have a husband in there too. So, you know, he got Colette as a couples therapist. I mean, he got like, the fucking scraps of me, you know, like, yeah, you just come withered in, like, and we're still married, and he's great. But, you know, it's just like the way I was showing up was so scattered, and not in my work, though, my work was like I was sharp, and

Colette Fehr  20:46  
you're into it, and you're you're an entrepreneurship,

Nora Neiterman  20:50  
and then you start right because you've invested now, time, money yourself, like you've there's no, no option of any type of failure like you are into this thing. So the freight train keeps going. Yeah, it just keeps going.

Colette Fehr  21:07  
You know, this is so relatable. I relate to a lot of what you're saying, even I'm in a bit of a season like that right now myself, where it's hard to know how to pull back from some of that, because it just feels necessary for what's happening in life, yeah, but you can see in retrospect, okay, these were signs that I was maybe headed for burnout, or what we describe as super woman syndrome, which we're so susceptible to. It's this belief that we have to do it all, that we can do it all, that we don't even need help, that we don't really need that much damn sleep anyway, that we can be a mom, a wife like a total insane CEO who knocks it out of the park. So were you during this time before the wall comes? Are you feeling like perfectionism is pulling at you, are you struggling to ask for help? Like looking back, was some of that at play for you during this time?

Nora Neiterman  22:08  
Oh, 100% both of those things, definitely struggling for asking for help in my business and in my personal life. I think that was a big piece. I I certainly didn't ask for help from my husband. I kind of juggled all of the things and, you know? And what happens then is you resent it's because you don't open your mouth, because you're super woman, right? And you're like, I can take on everything. I've got my cape on, and I'm going to do everything, and I'm so good and badass, and then so and you look over and you're like, oh my god, you I don't have the same playing field as you. You know I if I ever needed to go on a business trip, it's like the move mountains to logistically plan for me to leave town. Them so true. My husband, who, by the way, I adore and love. This is no, this is no like, shock to him. He would pack his bag, his carry on. He's like, okay, bye, bye, I'm going to China for two weeks. And out he would go. And, you know, that's just how our life always operates and

Colette Fehr  23:16  
and that's how society has conditioned and it, yeah, male and female roles for years.

Laura Bowman  23:21  
Yes, they're like, a belief that, like, our lives aren't designed for me to have a big like, a big business or a big footprint like, basically that my first job is to hold down this family and these kids, and if my mom is sick, like, that's my my job. And this business is kind of extra

Nora Neiterman  23:40  
that could make me cry, Laura, because, you know, with with hindsight, you know, you can really look back at stuff, right? And I think as women somewhere, somewhere along the line, there is this piece of us that thinks that doing those things, supporting our family, being a present mom, being a present wife, being all those things is not good enough, or we need to be doing all of these things. And it's the it's just the furthest thing from the truth, right? Because the most important thing is, first of all, us, right? How we are as women, our mental health, our physical health. You know, if we build on those pillars, then we can build healthy pillars on top of that, our family, our children, our business. But I think it's we're in reverse. We're in reverse, and that's why I think it's so important to talk about this. And believe me, I am all for women going after their dreams and crushing it and being entrepreneurs like I love that, but there will come a time when all of these things come at you, and how do you juggle it? What do you put down? There's got to be things that we put down. I didn't put anything down. I just kept taking them.

Colette Fehr  24:59  
I. And your own belief system is what prevents us right? The beliefs that we have to do it all, that we shouldn't really ask for help, that we can just keep piling on more and more, is part of what prevents us from putting things down or raising the flag to say, Hey, I'm not okay. I need help. We need to do this differently. Our family needs to restructure whatever it is.

Laura Bowman  25:24  
Yeah, so Nora, where's the wall? Because, like, because I always say, like, nobody ever gives, like, comes to you and gives you a permission slip and is like, Hey, you're struggling. Like, I really need, we need to restructure this from the ground up. Like, I feel like that moment never comes from people in our lives. It's, it's like, we have to claim it, yeah, oh, yeah.

Nora Neiterman  25:46  
And, you know, when you claim it, it's not tied up in a bow, you know, it's right on your knees, right? So intertwined. Remember, I started this business in my early 40s. So intertwined there, you know, we had this other party that entered my life, Perry, Perry menopause, which was unspoken at the time. Now we're talking about it. You guys are talking about everyone, thank God. But at the time, it was like, oh shit. Like, I'm losing my mind. I'm literally cognitively, I felt like pieces were taken from me, and just those little Inklings start trickling in, and you're like, something's not right. I don't know what it is. Is it burnout? Is it? Is it do? I do I want it to I hate my husband. Like, what is it? What's happening here? It starts percolating, right? So I think the perimenopause piece is very important to talk about here, because that was definitely, that was part of the wall hitting for sure. But then it was, I think, my mother's death that was really, really hard. She was sick for a few years, and I was with her, and I she her and I were the best of friends, like she was my person. And when she was in her last week of life, I think that really kind of it. This was not when I hit the wall, but it's it started chipping away at the wall because I was the most Turbo version of myself ever. And I didn't just go to the hospital and sit with my mother. I was making, it was February before Valentine's Day. I was making the most insane emoji heart cookies with custom fucking I mean, you it was, like, the most insane thing you'd ever imagine, two days before my mother's got dead. I'm like, oh my god, I have to, I have to bring in the cookies. And, you know, would it have occurred to me to just say, call the class mother and say, I'm so sorry. My mother's dying. I can't do this or say to my husband, oh, hey, do you? Can you stop and get something and bring it to school? No, I didn't. I turboed through it and made the most masterpiece fucking cookies you've ever seen. And like, I never will forget that moment. It was like, I just wish that I could have taken that time to just be and to be there for my mom and and to be there for myself. So when that chip started chipping away, 2020 that's 2018 I'm still in turbo mode. 2019 is my best year. Yet I am crushing it in every way. 2020 comes, obviously the pandemic. And then after that, the business started shifting. I kept grinding and grinding and feeling like I couldn't find my creativity anymore, like it was like, I don't understand. I feel blocked. I don't feel creative. You know what's happening. And my father died in 2020 so a lot of death was intertwined in there. And I hit the wall in 2022 but until then, I was turbo balls to the wall. 2022 my husband called me in, and he was like, we need to have a talk about, like, had the spreadsheet open. We need to have a talk about the numbers. And, you know, at this time, I was working like, 16 hours a day, and I was, I was really, I was really burnt out and not knowing it yet. And he then showed me where we were at which I felt we were crushing it, you know. But there's a difference in business when you're crushing it and actually being profitable enough, right? So it was this moment where he shared with me some pajamas. Directions, and I heard the numbers, was like an out of body experience. And I was like, oh my god, how am I going to get to those numbers? If I am already feeling like I'm feeling now and I'm on the verge, what is going to happen to me? And that was my moment of like just feeling completely and utterly broken, of what something has to change here, because you can't keep going like this. You're going to die. I thought I was going to die.

Colette Fehr  30:33  
Yeah, you realize you had to do it differently. Yeah, I had to.

Nora Neiterman  30:36  
Because if I kept going in this ferocious way, and it wasn't going to bring the numbers up. It wasn't going to bring me more creative ideas. You know, all the things that I was doing weren't working anymore, and I really had to sit down and say to myself, Okay, what's what do we need here? Like you need to come up for air.

Colette Fehr  31:02  
Yeah, and so ideally, we want to try to help women make those shifts before it gets to a crisis point, if possible. So what changed for you, and is this when the psychedelics came in, and definitely tell us about that, I'm so curious your experience.

Nora Neiterman  31:21  
What changed for me was very simple. I and I think this is a big message for women as well. You know, we're flooded with our social media, with, like, all of this wellness, all of this you've got to stack, especially with the perimenopause. I mean, the stacking of shit is like, I know, I know, right. So for me, I started very simply after the new year. It was now 2023 I started with a Gabby Bernstein meditation, like a 21 day manifestation challenge. And I was like, okay, I can do this. And I just started with that. And I was feeling really like good. And then I started cold showering. Like, the end of my showers, I did cold showering, and that was it. It was like a little mindfulness, a little meditation and a little shock of the body. That was all. I didn't go guns a blazing into 1000 different things. So I think we get, I think for women, like, just start with something, whether it's like, yeah, small, small. Like, we take on these mountains and we're destined to fail because we can't hold it. We cannot

Laura Bowman  32:29  
the same strategy that you had before, just applied to something different, which it's like, that's the same thing. It's like, oh, if I just go really hard at it, yeah, I can make something work. And sometimes it's like a different strategy of just like, can we be gentle?

Nora Neiterman  32:44  
Yes, and just little micro steps,

Colette Fehr  32:48  
because that's what you can build on, and that's what's lasting, trying to do it all at once. Yeah, like you said, we're destined to fail.

Nora Neiterman  32:54  
We're destined to fail. And that was the magic of starting unsweetened. Was like, it was micro steps. It wasn't this big plan. It was like, let me start here. So I did the same thing with coming back to myself. I was like, let me start here. And through the meditation, I started meditating more, which was hard for me, because with an ADHD mind, it's like, it's hard to meditate, but I did it in the way that felt right for me. I was like, you know, what if I can sit in the shower for five minutes and I'm in a good spot, like, check box, like I didn't have these, like I didn't need to become Deepak and be, you know, man, meditating like that. It was like simple. Then I just started drinking more water, and then all of the time I was feeling a little disconnected to my creativity, so I had always been interested in psychedelics, psychedelic therapy when I was in art school, like, you know, psychedelics in New York City were fun in the early 90s, but I hadn't done them since, like, freshman year of college, but this time, I had done a lot of research on psychedelic therapy, so I was interested in finding more about it. I had worked with someone that is a psychedelic coach. We started micro dosing psilocybin, which means that you don't feel anything. It was just very subconsciously under there, and I'm no expert again in this psychedelic Renaissance, but I can only share about my experience. I then went to the desert for a larger journey, and with the intention of, when you're using psychedelic therapy, you have an intention of what you want to come out of it for the neuroplasticity. My intention was very simple. My intention was I wanted to get back in touch with my creativity and my passion. It was like for me, I was like, Oh, this is a no brainer, because, like, you know, anytime I had done psychedelics in college, it was like, amazing. Saying fun by colors and like, so, so psychedelic, right? So I was like, Oh, this is going to be great. I'm just going to, like, tap right back in and get my creativity as an artist going. And that's not what happened. You know, the funny thing about psychedelic therapy is this, actually, you're in, not in any control of what the hell happens. So when I said I wanted to be unblocked, my my creativity to be unblocked, having no idea what was blocking it, it kind of resurfaced a lot of things that were going on in my body and my mind and, you know, younger versions of myself. So that was the start of that healing. Yeah?

Laura Bowman  35:45  
It's not surprising that, like, you ask for, like, take me into the creativity and the light, and it takes you to the darkness first.

Nora Neiterman  35:52  
Yeah, so, but then, along with with the darkness, it didn't feel dark, it just felt totally natural and aligned. I I had stopped drinking, which was like an added bonus from the psychedelic therapy, which I never intended. It wasn't like, Ooh, I'm gonna go do this and stop drinking. I also stopped the vivants. I didn't even know I had a problem with those things, like they weren't. They were just part of life. It wasn't like I was I was seeking that I wasn't. It was just an added bonus. So from that, I just started really tuning into my own thoughts, my own where I was at that point. The thing that it dug up was a old eating disorder. I had been a very overweight child, and binge eating was a big part of that. I mean, if you were to ask me today, like if, if I ever still had that, I would have said absolutely not. Like that was long gone from when I was a kid, I've always had issues with food and eating and and my relationship with food was always unhealthy, and Vyvanse makes you not eat, by the way, or I would be a impulsive exerciser, or it was just always something to the extreme with food. And so I might have thought I tackled that eating disorder because it didn't show up in the same way, but I still had a terrible relationship with food and the mind body connection, so I wasn't prepared for that to come back the binge eating and then I'm off my vivants, because I didn't want it, And so I was hungry, and I gained, like, 20 pounds, and then I had to really learn that connection of like, what food and my mind meant to each other. So it's been a quite a journey. I have lost that weight, thankfully, between going on hormone replacement therapy and just getting, you know, just doing a lot more walking and being mindful about my body and what I'm putting in. But I mean it, it has been quite a unbelievable journey, and I'm beyond grateful to have been able to do this work.

Laura Bowman  38:20  
You know, what's so funny about that Nora is like, when you talk about, like, wanting your creativity back, it's like you had to put down the things that were blocking it. You know, I have somebody in my life who uses stimulants, and she says, you know, it makes me like a robot, and it makes me, like, not have a huge range of feelings, or even have a huge range of, like, sexual desire. It makes her very focused and forward moving. And like, alcohol is another thing that, like, blocks your ability to feel. So it's like, Here you take these things out of the picture, and it's like, you're gonna feel again.

Nora Neiterman  38:56  
Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's really what happened, is I started really feeling for the first time in my life that's been wild. In fact, the creativity has come back in so many different ways that I never could have expected and and in different platforms as well. You know, like even, even me stepping out in front of the brand. Like, I'm not sure telling my story is career suicide or it's the best fucking thing in the world. Like, I don't know, but what I know is that it's, it is part of the whole essence and DNA of unsweetened New York. It's really just infusing it into different mediums, and I'm not necessarily putting it on a shirt, but it's still the same. Messaging is like you're not alone. We're all in this together, and even in your deepest, darkest moments of your little secrets, it's okay, like we all have them.

Colette Fehr  39:58  
Oh Nora, the. That is like the perfect thing to end on there, right? The perfect takeaway. And I think you sharing your story is going to help so many women. There are so many things you said today that I related to, and I know our listeners are going to feel the same, that you were able to get to the place where what you needed to feel and what you needed to shed came up organically, but you went through a lot before you got there. And even though you were tremendously successful, it's not like you weren't. There was struggle, and there was psychological stuff and emotional stuff and all that pressure we put on ourselves along the way. So if this can help you guys who are listening, if you relate to some of these things, I know I already have some ideas for how I need to tweak what I'm doing right now, and hopefully you guys are going to get the same motivation to start something that's an idea and not worry about making it perfect or making it too big, or having an outcome, and also really that reassurance that we don't have to do at all, that we can put things down, and we can ask for help, and I want every t shirt that you've ever made in my personal collection, and your story is just such an inspiration. So thank you so much for being here. And before we let you go, can you let our listeners know it'll all be in the show notes, but how they can find you, how they can reach you, all that good stuff.

Nora Neiterman  41:25  
Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you guys so much. Colette and Laura. I mean, it's been such a great conversation, and I love the work you're doing. Thank you. Thank you. You can find me at, at unsweetened New York on Instagram, at Nora neederman on Instagram, and our website is www dot unsweetened new york.com,

Laura Bowman  41:46  
and maybe, like, I know Colette and I talk all the time about, we're going to start a merch line for insights. I don't know if that's like, that's part of what you do with unsweetened New York, but I mean me, yeah.

Nora Neiterman  41:58  
So we do a lot, a lot of that. A lot the part of the pivot was giving up our E com and our what I didn't talk about our E com and our boutique, most of our boutique business, and we specifically do custom for hotels and sports teams and, you know, boutiques, but all custom stuff. So we can certainly talk about

Colette Fehr  42:21  
that very Oh, my God, we may hit you up for that very soon. Yes, thank you. Oh, my gosh. Well, thanks everyone for listening, and we hope you got some great insights from our couch today, and we will see you next week.