Insights from the Couch - Real Talk for Women at Midlife

Ep. 101: The Truth About What it Takes to Begin Again

• Colette Fehr, Laura Bowman • Season 9 • Episode 101

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Beginning again in midlife can feel equal parts terrifying and exhilarating. Whether life forced a reset through divorce, loss, burnout, empty nesting, or you simply feel a quiet ache for something more, this conversation explores what it really means to start over — and why so many women find themselves standing at this crossroads. We unpack the fear of change, the comfort traps that keep us stuck, and the surprising beauty that can come from allowing yourself to become someone new. 

We also get honest about reinvention, post-traumatic growth, intuition, grief, and learning to trust yourself again. From sitting in uncertainty to reconnecting with the parts of yourself that got buried under responsibility, this is a conversation about choosing yourself without apology and creating a life that finally feels aligned. 

Episode Highlights

[0:03] Why beginning again is such a common midlife experience for women

[4:23] How comfort and familiarity quietly keep us stuck longer than we realize

[6:57] Colette shares the painful aftermath of divorce and the growth that came from it

[10:17] Why transformation sounds inspiring but often feels brutal while you’re living it

[12:34] The difference between wanting change and fully committing to it

[15:47] Letting life move through you instead of trying to force every outcome

[18:49] Powerful questions to ask yourself when you feel disconnected or stuck

[20:25] Learning to disappoint others in order to stop abandoning yourself

[23:57] Understanding “the void” and why uncertainty can actually be part of growth

[26:46] Small ways to reconnect with intuition, creativity, and inner wisdom

[31:13] Why reinvention is often about remembering who you were before the world shaped you

[35:22] Gentle ways to begin again without blowing up your entire life

[37:13] Measuring yourself by your growth instead of how far you still have to go

[38:29] The powerful life regret that changes how we think about purpose and fulfillment

If today's discussion resonated with you or sparked curiosity, please rate, follow, and share "Insights from the Couch" with others. Your support helps us reach more people and continue providing valuable insights. Here’s to finding our purposes and living a life full of meaning and joy. Stay tuned for more!

Ever stayed quiet to keep the peace and felt yourself disappear? The Cost of Quiet is for anyone who avoids conflict and pays the price. Reclaim your voice, strengthen your relationships, and experience real peace. Order your copy and join the movement: https://www.colettejanefehr.com/new-book

🎙️ Love the podcast? Come talk about episodes with us inside The Midlife Chat. It’s a free, private community just for women at midlife who want to keep these conversations going. We’ve created this space for real talk, fresh resources, and honest connection—where you can share ideas and resources, ask questions, and get support from women navigating the same season.  Come join us—we’d love to have you!

👉 Join The Midlife Chat here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/795863256460970/

Order The Cost of Quiet now! Colette’s new book, The Cost of Quiet: How to Have the Hard Conversations that Create Secure, Lasting Love, launched February 3rd. Order your copy today: https://www.colettejanefehr.com/new-book

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Colette Fehr:

welcome to Insights from the Couch, where real conversations meet real life at midlife, where Colette and Laura, two therapists and best friends, walking through the journey right alongside you. Whether you're feeling stuck, restless, or just unsure of what's next, this is a space for honest conversations, messy truths, and meaningful change. And our midlife master class is now open. If you're looking to level up, get into action, and make midlife the best season yet, go to Insights from the couch.org and join our wait list. Now, let's dive in. All right, we're going to jump right into it today. We're talking about beginning again, whether you've just gone through something major, a divorce, you've lost a job, your kids left for college, a friendship ended, or you want to start over. Beginning again can be the most exciting and also the most daunting journey in life. And we're going to dig into this topic and give you some helpful tidbits to guide you.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, isn't it? Why is it that, like, so many people have to start over in midlife? It just seems like a really common trope. I mean, not that it doesn't happen at other stages of life, it certainly does, but like, there's something just so, like, such a common trope about midlife starting over, or I mean, I, I watched my mom go through it. I actually just was talking to her yesterday, like my mom got really sick when she was like 47 in like a major depression. This is like a woman who had never been depressed today in her life, and was like hospitalized and lost her marriage and her kids left home at the same time and it was just like brutal

Colette Fehr:

on every level,

Laura Bowman:

every level.

Colette Fehr:

Well, and there's the difference between the something happens, your life goes in an unexpected direction, your finances change, someone gets sick, a relationship ends. There are these big momentous shifts that can feel like they're happening to us, or they are happening to us. And then there are also those we elect that I think at midlife there's a lot of shedding of who I've needed to be, or I became someone because I thought that's what I was supposed to do, what I should do, what I had to do, as I took care of everyone else around me, and I think, especially right now in this day and age, midlife is the youngest it's ever felt, but we're also all aware that the clock is ticking, and we're not at the very end, but this is kind of the last act, maybe the time, the last time it feels.. I'm not saying it's true, but it feels like this is a last chance to maybe be who you really want to be, to become that possible self that we've been talking about from Katherine Woodward Thomas's work, who you're really meant to become, and midlife is an opportunity for this, but let's talk for a minute about what keeps people stuck, and then what can move people forward, because we want this to be really actionable and useful for you guys today, in terms of if you're wanting to begin again or feeling like you didn't really ask for this, but it's time to begin again. How do you begin to wade into that next place? And let me let you say something. And then I have a thought from, from this last session I just did.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's like you're right that there's this developmental process that, like, we're all going through, and that's this, you know. Do I.. who am I, really? Is this what I've wanted to be? Because so much of women's lives are shaped by their roles and their responsibilities to partners and children, and we wake up and we go, huh, without these roles, who am I now, which is different than when your life gets completely torpedoed, which is like what I'm kind of talking about with my mom, where your life implodes and you're, and there's a violence to starting over. There's not always a violence for women. Sometimes it's just like a very quiet, huh? I don't, I've got to make some changes, or I want desperately to make some changes. Yeah, which is different than having to

Colette Fehr:

absolutely, but the violence is often what pushes people, so the danger is that, and I want to encourage you, as you're listening, that if you have that stirring and calling within for something more, really to begin to tune into it, because the challenge with not having a volcanic eruption that decimates your life, as painful as that is, is that forces a new beginning. It

Laura Bowman:

does.

Colette Fehr:

Otherwise, we can often stay semi asleep, numbing out on the TV the third glass of wine, the, you know. The struggles and other people's lives that we're pulled into that really don't have anything to do with us or where we want to go, and I really believe that we all have that inner knowing. I always call it the sage self, you know, however you see it, whether it's your higher power within or your wise self, your adult self, your future self, whatever you want to refer to it as the part of you that, if you tap into it, will speak to you directly and offer, offer answers, and it's really about getting out of our head and starting to listen inside, which can be hard to do.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, it can be hard, and I think you're right. Like, when life happens to you, it does force you to grow, and although that can be painful as hell, it's quite beautiful if you can get some post-traumatic growth out of it. And women are usually very grateful for these things in retrospect, even though they'd never asked for them, and I am somebody who personally can feel that my energy is prone to getting very circular without being pushed. I always talk about it as like a circular energy, like you can get mired down in the repetitive nature of life. I always say doing the same load of laundry, taking the same trip to the store, I drift into like distractions of like oh maybe I'll remodel this or remodel that, I could live there without force.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah,

Laura Bowman:

so I am sympathetic to the fact that if women's lives don't have anything other than, you know, if it's if it's too, if it's too safe sometimes we don't become who we're supposed to become, and we have to put that act of violence on ourselves, and it's hard to do that. We don't like to cut off our own arms. The

Colette Fehr:

natural state of things is that we create, we crave comfort.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah,

Colette Fehr:

we gravitate to comfort, and even if something isn't working for you, or all that comfortable. What's familiar is more comfortable than the unknown. So, I think the first thing is realizing that comfort is a trap, it's a stop point, it will keep you there, and that that's normal and natural, but if you're really going to begin again, and start a new career, or pivot, or leave a relationship, or start dating again, or, you know, I'm very much in the midst of this myself, like I went through a huge forced volcanic turning point with my own first divorce, something I thought was going to be exciting and fulfilling, and turned out in the short term to be a disaster, where I had just years of struggle, economic hardship, career confusion, the challenge of raising children, what felt like completely alone, unsupported, and you know, it was just a lot of pain and confusion and doubt and struggle, frankly, and struggling with dating and rejection and getting heartbroken, and in the midst of also trying to lead a functional, stable adult life and raise two kids and build a career, so when I look back on it, I'm both like, oh God, that was awful, and then I'm also like, wow, had I not been forged in that fire, none of what's possible today would have been. It definitely led to post-traumatic growth. It led to this career. It led to so much of what I feel like I can offer people as a therapist, as a thought leader, so so much good. And now I'm also in the process of beginning again, again, and

Laura Bowman:

never ends, doesn't

Colette Fehr:

it? Never ends, but a big beginning again. And I think what's hard about it, as I've gone through this book, and I'm trying to pivot my career, I really am. I'm trying to take this chapter and continue to do therapy work, but also do other things in a significant way, where I devote a significant amount of time beyond a hobby to, you know, being in the entertainment world, to speaking on stages, and I'm in the middle of it. So I feel both right now, I'm just going to be honest, it's not feeling very good, it's not feeling exciting, it's not feeling good. There's a lot of confusion, there's a lot of things I've worked toward and worked hard for that are wonderful, like my book and the feedback I'm getting from people on my book, The Cost of Quiet, that's wonderful, but the amount of work I had to do to get there, and some of what I thought this stage was going to look and feel like, isn't what it feels like. So, I think what I want to offer to people is that we all talk about the struggles, and the peaks, and the valleys. And the times and the people who succeed are the ones who don't let rejection get to them, and they keep going, and guess what, that sounds great, and it's true, but it is unbelievably difficult when you are in it, it is unbelievably difficult,

Laura Bowman:

but I think we need to normalize that, because I do, if you are like Odysseus, right, like you know, taking the hero's journey, it's like the call, and you're like, and then it, when you're like thinking about the, you're like, oh no, and I don't want to do it, then you get on the journey, and it is like one like hellacious chapter after the other, I mean, obviously it's been punctuated by some great moments, right,

Colette Fehr:

right,

Laura Bowman:

for sure, but it's like a lot of challenge, and I think we need to normalize that. When you're becoming or growing, you're going to be faced with a lot of challenge.

Colette Fehr:

Yes, and you are, so because it turns into a social media sound bite, we say that, and people say, oh, you know, if you're not struggling, or if you're too comfortable, you're not growing. It's so oft quoted it's become a cliche, but I agree, and this is why I'm saying this. I think people look at me right now and think, like, oh my god, this is so great, and you've been so successful, and it's not that I'm not grateful for those things, and I've worked very hard for them, the things that have worked out, but the reality of the becoming of the cocoon and becoming a butterfly is that you feel like a mangled caterpillar that's stepped on by people every day, and like half your caterpillar body is smushed and smushed, and you don't know when or where or how you're going to become a butterfly, and sometimes you don't think you're going to at all, and you feel poor and overworked and stressed and confused and lost.

Laura Bowman:

This is quite the endorsement for the journey, right? No, make a change, everybody.

Colette Fehr:

No, but okay, but I have no interest in not being on this journey,

Laura Bowman:

that's okay. So, say something about that, like,

Colette Fehr:

yes,

Laura Bowman:

that even despite that, you take this journey, you choose this journey.

Colette Fehr:

Yes, and you know, I'm being somewhat hyperbolic, but, but not really. Like, there are hard parts, I think, if you really want to begin again, the idea that you can like stick your toe in the water and like maybe I'll do this, you can start there, but that is not going to lead to transformation. That's the point I'm trying to make, that there

Laura Bowman:

is, yeah, you're describing a level of like full-bodied committed action.

Colette Fehr:

Yes,

Laura Bowman:

that is not it's not a flirting, like, like you said, maybe you dabble, maybe you dip your toe in to begin with, but if you really want transformational change, I just did something about this, you have to want something very clearly,

Colette Fehr:

yep,

Laura Bowman:

and you have to commit to

Colette Fehr:

it, yes, and that is what I'm speaking to, that transformation is going to have real struggle, and really being outside of your comfort zone means a lot of things you're hoping for along the way aren't going to work out. It isn't going to go according to plan. People you think will support and cheerlead you will disappoint you, and that will hurt. People will not call you back. People, as you put yourself out there, are going to not respond to you, not like you, not give a flying shit what you're doing, or have to say. Other people will think it's great, but of course those painful disappointments, you're going to feel them, and there's a lot of what am I going toward, and I just want to normalize this too, that you have to commit, you have to want it, but I really believe you don't have to know what it's going to look like. You have to have some sense of, so this, this occurs to me a lot, as I'm working on career transition and working with women on this, and of course, this is the work we do in our reinvention group, that our midlife master class, that we're, we're going to call reinventions. I really love that word. It really is, you're not going to step out of a 20 year career, or you didn't work for 10 years, and now you're not gonna.. it's not gonna just like fall into place in this beautiful synergy, and that's okay. You don't want it to, actually.

Laura Bowman:

It's gonna be iterative. It's

Colette Fehr:

gonna be

Laura Bowman:

one awkward movement that leads to the next awkward movement, till you like piece it together,

Colette Fehr:

and in the struggle, as the caterpillar is getting stepped on, there is no doubt that the caterpillar will become a butterfly, and then the butterfly is more beautiful for having been stepped on. I really believe that.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, I believe it too. I believe it too,

Colette Fehr:

but doing it is another thing. So, I want to talk about some helpful things, but let me also bring this analogy, because I just did a session where I was the client with a woman. Who was amazing, and you know, she follows and reads some other people out in the space of transformational psychology that I have not been tapped into, so it's always interesting to get different tidbits from people, and she talked about how, you know, there's the idea of like life happens to me, right, like the victim mindset, and then the life happens by me, and I think I, and a lot of high achieving women, fall into this too, of like life is hard, it's a climb, it's a struggle, nothing will happen unless I'm clawing my way, like I'm a hard worker, I'm not afraid to take a risk. I will jump off the mountain and, like, believe in myself that somehow wings will sprout and I'll fly.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah,

Colette Fehr:

and I'm willing to, like, work really hard, but even that is not always the right way to conceptualize the journey, but rather as this river, and that life happens through me and with me, and that the universe will provide it's a benevolent, loving, giving universe, but that as we meander around with the river, rather than dig our nails and break them in the dirt of the mountain, that there's going to be bends, there's going to be places where we can't see what's on the other side places where the river is rough and we're getting wet, and places where the river is tranquil and affirming, and yes, I've got this. It's going to be all of that,

Laura Bowman:

and that we have to be here for that, and like, allow, allow that, allow it to work through us. Does she have some, I don't know, visualization or way that you talk to yourself as life is throw flowing through you as you're getting challenged by the bends. I mean, you just, what, continue to allow what

Colette Fehr:

is.. well, I think what helped me from this session that I want to offer to other people is stuff we already know and do I mean, my whole thing in my book of self-connected communication is really, and I know this is a foundation of your work too, Laura, is the difference between trying to figure things out in your head and really tapping into your intuition and being in conversation with yourself and being curious, and I think so many of us know, especially us as therapists. I mean, I wrote a book about it. We do this all the time. I think I.. what I'm realizing is that I'm even getting away from the daily practice of it, and I'm.. I'm trapped, and I think a lot of our clients, and a lot of you guys listening, can probably relate to this. Is that we're trying to figure it out. What should we do? What is the fear saying? What is the right thing? What is going to work, and forget perfectionism is a whole nother layer. I won't even go to that here. That's not my struggle at this point, but even if you don't struggle with perfectionism, it can be so hard to know what's the right thing, or what do I do next, or is this just a moment of struggle and suffering that I have to allow and be with, or does this mean like this isn't the right thing? You know, we're relying on our inner wisdom. Other people may have their opinions, and you can filter that. I'm not saying never listen, but it's no one is in your life. So, I think the biggest thing is the I was reminded of today is I need to be talking to my sage self, just even checking in. I used to do this all the time, and now that I'm in just the busy zone of constant action, and I feel like I don't have two seconds to myself ever, but I'm gonna make it, because closing your eyes for a moment, and just asking inside, like, what do I need in this moment? What is my next step? That can be so, but you will get answers.

Laura Bowman:

You will get answers, you know. I even, in like, I did this whole sub stack of, like, the nine places women get stuck, and I did a whole thing on how you can get unstuck, and they're really questions, you know. The the answers are all going to come from ourselves.

Colette Fehr:

Give us some of the questions. What are some of the questions we can ask ourselves to get unstuck?

Laura Bowman:

Let me get to some of the questions, because I, I like to put them in my notes. Okay. Well, one of the first ones is, what do I want now if I'm not organizing my life around what others need for me, if I'm just.. if I'm willing to disappoint some people.

Colette Fehr:

Yes, you got to do that, got to do that. Go disappoint someone now today.

Laura Bowman:

Yes, where in my life can I invite even a small moment of aliveness or play? Because we're just so disconnected from aliveness, you know, we're so routinized as women, we are working on checklists. What losses in my life need to be acknowledged, felt, and honored instead of minimized or rushed past? You know, I think this is what we're talking about, is whether your life got torpedoed or whether you're just. Morning. Small shifts, like, can you be here to grieve and sort of feel your feelings instead of minimizing and saying, like, nothing bad has happened here. I haven't been harmed. I'm fine, you know. Was women kind of thrive on being fine?

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, and you're it's okay to be not fine and make space for it.

Laura Bowman:

Yes, so like, these are all, you know, where am I

Colette Fehr:

going?

Laura Bowman:

Where am I over functioning? And who might I need? Who might I need to be willing to disappoint in order to create space for myself?

Colette Fehr:

Oh, yeah, I got that one down. I got that one down. I'm like, sorry everyone, I'm doing what I want to do now, because we could be dead in five seconds, and I don't want to have any regrets,

Laura Bowman:

right? And I mean, I'm in a chapter where it's like I'm ready to like disappoint my kids,

Colette Fehr:

good, which

Laura Bowman:

is like not popular, do yeah, they're not in my top three priorities coming up.

Colette Fehr:

How does that feel to say

Laura Bowman:

there's a part of me that feels unnatural to say that, because obviously I'm like, I adore my kids, I have like endless energy for them, but, but for real, they're not in my top three priorities moving forward. They're adults, they're like, they are very much at the helm of their own lives, not, not entirely, but, but mostly,

Colette Fehr:

right. And I really want you guys listening to take this in and notice your own reaction to what Laura's saying, because I think it does bring up, you know, there are probably some of you that go like, well, that's not how I feel about it, and maybe others who are like, yes, and then a lot of us who maybe are in the middle, like what you're saying, where it feels like I want that, and that's right, and like that feels so hard. It's such a big shift. I think it's that this doesn't mean, obviously, that the kids aren't the number one loves of our lives, truly, right? Like, the only person I'm laying down on a train track where the train's coming is for Charlotte and Curran, nobody else. Sorry, Mom and Dad, Steve, love you all, Laura, but the only one I'm throwing myself on the track for me, who's scared of my own shadow, is my kids. Yeah, and they are not in the top three. As I organize my life now, I am trying to live my life for me, because I am the only one who's living it, and I am responsible for the life I create, and my children need to live their lives for themselves, whatever that means, and looks like mistakes and all,

Laura Bowman:

and it's a real beautiful thing, because it gives them permission to like just own their lives. It's like it's not, they're not an adjunct of my life any longer, you know. They're fully, they're fully owned, and I need to be fully owned, because I've noticed for decades now that the things that I've wanted to do are always at the tail end of my to-do list, you know, and they're always the things that don't get done, like, oh yeah, right, I wanted to take time to do that, I'll do that next week, I keep punting it, and I'm like, I'm not willing to punt it anymore,

Colette Fehr:

and how many of us women do that right, you put yourself last, and then you wonder why you feel like a lack of purpose, meaning a lack of aliveness, exhausted, burned out, resentful. I mean, it's the recipe for that, and really, this is, I think, key to getting unstuck, is give yourself permission, if it feels selfish to you, if that's what your inner dialog tells you, okay, allow that thought to be there and do it anyway. It's not as selfish as your mind might tell you. It's actually just living your life in integrity with what you're meant to do.

Laura Bowman:

I completely agree, and I think that's one is just real hard for women. It has to be,

Colette Fehr:

yeah,

Laura Bowman:

practiced a lot.

Colette Fehr:

Yes, and I think that's the point, though. Is if your mindset isn't there, okay, that's okay, right? You think of it the way you think of it, but part of getting unstuck is not allowing what your mind tells you to dictate what you do.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah,

Colette Fehr:

so you can have the thoughts, you can have the feel, you can feel scared, unsure, stuck, smushed, rejected, like, oh, this will never work out, but do it anyway. Put yourself out there anyway. And you know, as you ask these questions, and I'm thinking about this session I was just in, something was shared with me from the work of Dr. Sue Mortar about being in the void, so I have been, and I just want to explain this, because I think this is huge to getting unstuck, and in a way it's almost like the opposite of what we intuitively think we have to do, and a place where I've even gotten stuck recently, which is that with my book coming out, and that journey having been three years of like grind, grind, grind, grind, spending all my time, my money, like cutting back on my business, really pushing my personal relationships to the side, like I have put everything in this book, like everything, and I know you know that, and now. Now that that's over, right? Obviously, I'm continuing to sell it and hope that it continues to move into the world, but I don't have to spend all day, every day on my book. So I still have big goals, and it's the next step in the journey, but I don't really know what, and I don't know what to do next, which is what I was saying, and this is this idea of being in the void, which is that that is actually a beautiful place to be. I've been looking at it as like this is so scary. A and B, I have to figure this out. I have to figure this out, because if I don't figure this out, I'm not going to make the right moves, I'm not going to do the right thing, I'm going to mess it up, or I will not actualize. I will not turn any of this into what it's supposed to be, and I can't figure it out, and I don't know what to do next. But where I am is in the void, and the void means doesn't mean I'm not growing or moving forward. It's that I don't know, and then I'm just allowing, and I'm going to experience being in the space of like limbo and not knowing, which is a very uncomfortable state from a brain science perspective, because their brain hates uncertainty, but if you will let yourself be in that void, if this pertains to you, you know they're my intuition, the universe is going to offer things when it's the right time in the right way, and if I'm connected to myself and allowing myself to be in the not knowing and to be in an energy of exploration and receiving, then something is going to. I'm picturing Alice kind of falling down the rabbit hole, right, and she's like wandering around

Laura Bowman:

Wonderland,

Colette Fehr:

yeah. Or I actually picture her in the like free fall, right? She doesn't know,

Laura Bowman:

yeah,

Colette Fehr:

what's happening or where she's going, and sitting in that space and letting your mind be creative, so what does this look like? Because I'm speaking in theoretical terms, you know, going for long walks without music or a podcast, being in nature and allowing your mind to think and create, let thoughts and sensations and images come, spending some time closing your eyes and checking in, in some kind of meditation, or if that is just abhorrent to you, a small check-in, where you just notice, like, when I go, I went inside earlier to do this, and immediately that wise part of me threw me a message about somebody in my life that was crystal clear, and I was like, yes, where I've been in a state of, like, ah, how much do I interact with it? I just got the message, I wasn't even asking for

Laura Bowman:

it. So, what you're talking about is being so, like, if you're going for answers, you're not thrashing about grasping at straws in the world, you're quieting down and you're turning inward, trusting that you have the answers, if you can, like, just get yourself still enough, and you can listen

Colette Fehr:

and not feel so proud. Like, I'm big on action, but I think an action is really, really important. But you can be an action in the micro. You can wake up in a day and say to yourself, okay, I'm gonna be energetically open today. You know, what's one thing that might make me feel joyful and alive? Is there some play I can get into? Can I make some space? Sometimes that is what gives us more answers than, oh my god, I have to do this. Do

Laura Bowman:

this, yeah,

Colette Fehr:

yeah. And I say all of this because I think you and I know this, we preach all of this, but I have recently realized I have gotten back into the state of like grasping and like, oh my god, if I'm gonna miss something I should have done, or what about this, or what if this helps my book sell, or what if this leads to like a big speaking engagement, or what if this is the one thing that helps me with my TV aspirations, and it's too much grasping, and it hasn't been enough. Like, wait a minute, I just need to be in the void a little bit right now.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, yeah, and like wait until something really like the answers will be provided, the way will will show itself. I don't have to be constantly reaching and forging, I mean, I know you're always defaulting to action, but, and you're not at risk for like doing too little, but, but, but you, but yeah, like the discernment piece, and the just, yeah,

Colette Fehr:

you know what, though, Laura, as you say that, I mean, I think the risk, and maybe some people relate to this is that I do have, like so many of us do, we have polarized parts. I do have this part of me that just is tired and does want to do nothing. So I think part of what keeps me driving hard is this fear that if I allow myself to ease up, that I will just stop doing anything.

Laura Bowman:

I wonder, though. I wonder if you.. I wonder if the nothingness could, like, avail you more, you know? I think the answers are always a little counterintuitive, and I think the space may provide, like, a lot of clarity.

Colette Fehr:

No, I agree. I agree. And so this is hard to figure out, perhaps, in your own life, but start with asking yourself, and this is a powerful thing that we do in therapy and in coaching, where whether you meditate or not, it doesn't matter. Close your eyes for a minute and ask the question in your inner voice, whether you're someone who gets a lot of imagery or doesn't, you will be amazed how, when you talk to yourself, part of you that is wise and loving and knowing will answer, and so I think we have to begin to evaluate some of these micro decisions on a daily basis. Am I going to do this task or this thing that's last on the list that's joyful and playful, and the discernment might be different depending on the variables, but take the time to go inside and ask instead of just operating out of the conscious should mind.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, and I think a lot of like growth at this phase, you know, it's not that we have to become somebody fully knew, in many ways, we have to remember who we like, just add our their original self. This is why we always ask, like, who were you in second grade? I,

Colette Fehr:

when we do that meditation in our groups, I let, like, I love what women end up doing at midlife when they pivot and begin again, is remarkably aligned with I just got goosebumps on my whole body.

Laura Bowman:

Yes,

Colette Fehr:

right, because it's what you loved then. You know, there's probably a lot of core truth in that now.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, there's no performance when you're a second grader, you just love what you love, you're just drawn to what you're drawn to, or you could ask the question, like, Who was I when I was most alive, and in my life, where I felt most vibrant, and there will be a lot of answers there too, if you can just listen.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, some of my team, but for you, some of mine go into rescue or fantasy. I mean, I'm just going to admit my, my psychological developmental edge, right? Where I think, for well, I think fears around money and financial security are very big and real for me, and I think some of that is my own financial traumas in the aftermath of my divorce that are still with me, that you know, make that go. The first thing I go to is just having that taken off the table for me.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, it makes you feel alive and playful to not have to worry about money. Yeah, I think everybody feels like that, right? Well,

Colette Fehr:

for sure. And I think when people have that, having been in that space, I think when you have that, you're not worried about it. It's the pyramid of needs, and

Laura Bowman:

although there's like a real high, like there's a real like inverted you there, that if you have too much comfort, you become infantilized completely. You're not playful in that, you're just stunted, so like there's a sweet spot on resources,

Colette Fehr:

and the sweet spot is really where you don't have to worry about paying your bills, or that there's like resources for retirement, or later in life, or who's going to take care of me, and am I going to end up drooling into my, you know, poop bowl in the nursing home, and not having too much offered that you don't do anything with yourself, and you're just like drinking a bottle of wine every night, and totally under

Laura Bowman:

picking out wallpaper. That's where I always go. If I had infinite resources, I would just be remodeling houses all the time.

Colette Fehr:

That sounds fun, but

Laura Bowman:

it would be a just.. I know me, it would be like an obsessive little distraction of like, can we make it pretty? If we can make it pretty, everything will feel right.

Colette Fehr:

And you know what? My version of that is, I would just read two books a day, and then go meet a friend for wine a couple times a week, and then just go back to reading books. Like, that's really.. if I had no.. that's all I would do. Maybe I would travel too, but like, I just love to read, and that's very much how I lived, and what I loved when I was seven years old, just to read books, and all I love to do is paint and like color, and I was like, oh, and I was creed as moving my furniture around, and I was creating worlds, I was living inside my own, like fantasy. Me too, Laura. Me too. I

Laura Bowman:

have a very rich imagination.

Colette Fehr:

Me too. So, if you guys listening have that too, harness it and think about beginning again, as it doesn't have to be an enormous journey. It could be a small one. It could be you want to get into shape again, which, not that that's small, right, but it. Could be you want to move to a new city, you want to make an effort. At this point in your life, you've always been an introvert. You want to meet some new people. Maybe you want to go on a solo vacation alone. That's on my bucket list. I have never done it, and I feel like that's just something every woman should do.

Laura Bowman:

Yeah, yeah, like, right. And, yeah, hang out in coffee shops,

Colette Fehr:

or just go, go somewhere by yourself and experience that you can, or maybe you want to leave a marriage that has felt lonely and emotional starvation for a long time, and don't feel like you can give yourself permission to lean into it, let yourself be in the void, know the journey's a river, not necessarily a mountain. The universe will provide, and start asking inside.

Laura Bowman:

I love that. I love all of that. You know, and I just want to like acknowledge that there's a big difference between that violence, where your life seems to fall apart, and this sort of more gentle shifting that some people get to do in relative safety, I think. Sometimes I think the violence is easier because it just forces it, forces it forces, but it also is there's so much more grief and strife and suffering sometimes, although it's just a clear line. So I want to know, I want to just like acknowledge the differences. It's not an equal journey, although some of the tools are really similar, for you know, one is reinvention, one is rebuilding, and I think rebuilding is a whole other conversation, because I think we got to talk about like recreating safety when you feel like safety has fallen away, that's that's a slightly different conversation, but many of the tools are still the same.

Colette Fehr:

Yeah, and start with curiosity, whatever, wherever you are. If you're listening to the stick today and thinking, I don't even know if I want to begin again, ask yourself if that's really true. Is there something even small that you want for you that you've been putting on the shelf for a long time, because this is it. This is the time you deserve to live the life you're meant to live, and you want to live not by anybody else's rules. So we hope that you're gonna go for

Laura Bowman:

it, and just one more, like last process thing that I think, as you're in this like becoming phase, or you're climbing, and you get, I know, like we've talked about this, you get to the peak of one mountain to realize there's like a whole freaking range of mountains, and you're like, I've got to fucking hike another one. And I was listening to this in a business book, I think the guy is Ben Hardy, he wrote a whole book of, he writes a lot of coaching books, and he did a whole book on what he calls the gap in the game, and he says the difference between people who are miserable on this climb and the people who are not miserable is that people are always measuring themselves against the gap, so we always have our ideal self, like this is what we're headed for, and there's always a gap between us and that person, we're never there, and as we get closer, it's like it feels like we're getting to the horizon line, but it's like the gap isn't closing, there's just, you know, more of a gap, and then you feel demoralized, and he says, don't measure yourself that way, measure yourself on the gain, turn around and judge you in relation to earlier, you,

Colette Fehr:

I love

Laura Bowman:

that it's like the only way,

Colette Fehr:

yep,

Laura Bowman:

to look at, look at how far I've come,

Colette Fehr:

yep, and compare you to you, not to others. You really have to remember it is the journey, we never arrive, it's another journey after the journey, but when you're moving towards something that feels interesting and new and aligned, and this is the top regret of the dying that I wish I had lived my life for me, from Bronnie Ware's famous book, right, The Hospice Nurse. This is the number one thing people say on their death bed, I wish I had lived my life for myself. So, whatever it is that's calling to you, whether it's a whisper or a scream, listen, lean in. Yeah, you might get smushed a little, but it's gonna be worth it and lead to something beautiful. And we're here to help. So, thank you guys so much for listening. As always, we hope you got some insights from our couch today, and we'll see you next time. Bye, guys.

Unknown:

Bye.