Ep. 105: Stress or Burnout? How to Tell the Difference

Are you exhausted no matter how much you sleep? Feeling detached from things you used to enjoy? In this episode of Insights from the Couch, we’re diving into a topic that so many midlife women experience but often misunderstand: burnout.

We unpack the clinical signs of burnout, how it differs from everyday stress, and why so many high-achieving, people-pleasing women are especially vulnerable. We also explore the surprising role that hopelessness plays in burnout and share practical ways to recharge when life feels heavy, overwhelming, and out of your control. If you've been running on empty, this conversation may help you recognize the warning signs—and start finding your way back to yourself.

Episode Highlights

[0:40] - What burnout really is—and why it’s different from being stressed or busy

[1:38] - The World Health Organization’s three key markers of burnout

[6:34] - Why hopelessness often becomes the hidden driver of burnout

[8:50] - Reduced effectiveness, brain fog, and losing the ability to focus

[10:54] - The difference between a difficult day and a true season of burnout

[12:35] - Fantasizing about escape and other warning signs to watch for

[13:21] - The personality traits that make some people more susceptible to burnout

[15:35] - How self-improvement culture can accidentally fuel burnout

[18:17] - A powerful story illustrating what happens when hopelessness takes over

[23:49] - Why midlife women are especially vulnerable to burnout

[25:06] - Finding purpose and meaning when life feels overwhelming

[26:34] - The first step to recovery: subtraction, not addition

[27:22] - The healing power of connection, laughter, and community

[30:15] - Returning to the basics: sleep, nature, movement, and self-care

[32:20] - The “knitting needles” metaphor and why letting go is so difficult

[34:45] - Questions to ask yourself if you think burnout may be creeping in

[36:03] - Why the mindset that created burnout won’t necessarily get you out of it

If today's discussion resonated with you or sparked curiosity, please rate, follow, and share "Insights from the Couch" with others. Your support helps us reach more people and continue providing valuable insights. Here’s to finding our purposes and living a life full of meaning and joy. Stay tuned for more!

Ever stayed quiet to keep the peace and felt yourself disappear? The Cost of Quiet is for anyone who avoids conflict and pays the price. Reclaim your voice, strengthen your relationships, and experience real peace. Order your copy and join the movement: https://www.colettejanefehr.com/new-book

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Transcript

Laura Bowman: 0:44

La, welcome to Insights from the Couch, where real conversations meet real life at midlife, where Colette and Laura, two therapists and best friends, walking through the journey right alongside you. Whether you're feeling stuck, restless, or just unsure of what's next, this is a space for honest conversations, messy truths, and meaningful change. And our midlife master class is now open. If you're looking to level up, get into action, and make midlife the best season yet, go to Insights from the couch.org and join our wait list. Now, let's dive in.

Colette Fehr: 1:20

Welcome back to Insights from the Couch, guys. We have a great episode for you today on a topic that might be near and dear to your heart, one that you might not even realize

you're struggling with: 1:29

burnout, not stress, not busy, not overworked, legitimate burnout. It can happen in relationships, but of course, it most often happens in careers, and it can happen just in life, so today we're going to talk to you about what burnout really is from a legitimate clinical standpoint, the signs and markers, five signs that you're headed there, and then what you can do to help, because sometimes we can't get out of our circumstances and we have to change the way we're living.

Laura Bowman: 1:59

Yeah, see this a lot, right? I mean, and it's, it's a really fine line, like, where does stress end, where does chronic stress end, or even just like good stress, and sort of cross the Rubicon into burnout.

Colette Fehr: 2:13

Yeah,

Laura Bowman: 2:13

and they have like three components, right, that really make up burnout.

Colette Fehr: 2:19

Well, and according to the World Health organization, because I was looking into this. Burnout really is chronic stress, but it's a particular kind of chronic stress. So, let's talk about the three markers first, that exhaustion, right? And this is exhaustion where you get a good night's sleep and you wake up and you're still exhausted, and unfortunately, I've been there too many times in my life, where I don't want to get out of bed. I have a pit of dread. I've slept for seven hours, and I still feel like, oh my god, I could just hide here all day.

Laura Bowman: 2:55

Yes, I mean, you know, I, for some reason, and even when I'm, and I'm kind of in a, like, a stress cyclone currently, but there's something about me that I like really hover around homeostasis and balance, and so, like, my bot, I'm always trying to get back there, so I actually haven't experienced burnout in this sense, the way I hear some clients talking about it, I have some clients that are just like consistently burned out, just from their almost their approach to living, where they're always describing this like overwhelmed sense of exhaustion, but even like in a season of chronic stress that I'm in right now, I have moments where I think I'm hitting headed to like a burnout, and where it's like you just get back from work, and you want to like get back into your PJs, or you wake up and you're dragging. Not

Colette Fehr: 3:48

necessarily, I'm going to raise my hand in defense of that. That's me every day. I get home and I want to get in comfy clothes and like cozy up,

Laura Bowman: 3:58

dropping like a rock. Like I feel like there's something I want to get cozy to. I feel like there's a different sense of, like, oh, the evening has, like, some possibilities for rest and relaxation, and, like, fetal position on the couch.

Colette Fehr: 4:12

Agreed. So, let's talk about these two other markers, because it's not just exhaustion, it's the combination of all of this together. And the next one is cynicism and detachment, and I mean, wait, the, you've never been in a season of this, you've never felt burned out as a mental health professional, or like, what's going on in your life,

Laura Bowman: 4:35

you know, right now, like, this is as close as I've come to like bottoming out in my life, where I just feel a sense of just like there are certain days that have felt very heavy, but I just tend toward like I don't overwhelm myself, I haven't like I don't tend to like over stuff my plate, I haven't had like made when my dad was dying, felt like incredibly overwhelming, like certain seasons, certain acute moments, but I don't, my life doesn't tend to feel like, like I run on burnout.

Colette Fehr: 5:13

Yeah, and I think this is where, you know, not everybody can change the variables in their lives, so it's great if we don't tend to overwhelm ourselves, and we calibrate, but sometimes what people have on their plate, the nature of their career, they're going through a divorce, somebody died, like you just mentioned, you know, I had moments during the book launch where I felt like I'm just getting so burned out that I. Can't even enjoy this anymore, because it was just one activity and travel after another, but I think part of why we want to raise the alarm bell on this is that there are a lot of these signs may indicate that you're slipping into burnout rather than you're all the way there, and some of what you can do to help, because I think I flip into some of this, but don't go all the way there either, and part of the reason is that when it gets too much, I'll bring in some of these tips we're going to give you guys today to make sure that I recalibrate, and also part of it is we have had a huge advantage in that our training really caters to this, teaching you how to avoid burnout, because it's such a problem in the mental health field. When you're going to work, listening to people's stories, you know, for years I've been a certified EMDR professional, which is called trauma. Couples are in a lot of distress, you hear such heavy, tragic stories, and also just people who are sad and down, and we're, we're meeting them in that, so all that heaviness can really take a toll on your nervous system, and I think the cynicism and detachment goes along with this marker of things that are normally fun for you, you're not even excited about anymore, that's always a signal to me, like I have plans with friends, where I have a vacation planned, and I'm not even excited, I'm not even looking forward to it. I'd rather just stay home and hide,

Laura Bowman: 7:15

that's like a sign. Yeah, I mean, for me, that's for me, it teeters around, it's the like coming home, hitting the couch, I usually like to do a whole routine at night with my husband and my dog, and walking, and it's like that's not happening. I'm eating some random dinner that's probably high in carbohydrates, and then I'm like, like, fetal position on the couch, but you know what also cursed me that we didn't talk about in the three pieces here, it's what I find the most drive, the biggest driver of burnout is when people have like hopelessness, when they were in a season without end, like when I have a lot of clients who have family members that are just protractedly aging, and it's one health emergency after another, and it's just demanding they're in the emergency room, and then you know, or a partner's mental health is flailing, and it's like, and then there's like work stress, and so it's like, bam, bam, bam, and you have no idea when the end of that season is, or if

Colette Fehr: 8:20

there ever will be an end. Yeah, I mean, I think about clients trapped in a bad marriage,

Laura Bowman: 8:26

chronic debt. I have young people paying off loans, and they have no idea when that's coming to an end, if they'll ever be able to dig out of

Colette Fehr: 8:36

it. Yeah, or a family member is sick, like you're talking about, you know. And those seasons, though, are so hard, but some people don't slip into, they may be exhausted and overwhelmed, and some of the markers we're pointing to, even at times, like what you describe about the evening, you know, sometimes those are coping mechanisms that are arguably somewhat maladaptive, maybe I'm just defensive, because I do that all the time, like a sugary, carbohydrate meal, detaching and decompressing with TV, you know, it's not that for me, is not necessarily a sign I'm burned out, those are old vestiges of ways I learned to cope with life, stress, being tired, being recovering from being on as a teenager that I still enjoy, but I think this piece of the loss of hope of joy,

Unknown: 9:31

yes,

Colette Fehr: 9:32

of anything like you're just sort of, and the third marker, the reduced effectiveness, you know, you're you're really, and this is what I see with a lot of clients, all of a sudden people who are very capable, they are high functioning, very intelligent people, and they just, they can't concentrate.

Laura Bowman: 9:51

Yes,

Colette Fehr: 9:51

they can't pay attention, they're not accomplishing as much at work, and that's a real sign to me when I can no longer. Sometimes I get very procrastinatory, and I don't want to do the task, but if I'm trying, once I get in, I'm usually in the zone, and I'll have to, you know, push myself in there, but if I find that I can't concentrate, I'm reading the same thing over and over, I go to work, and I just feel like I'm pushing myself through my sessions. Those are signs that I need to really kick my butt into legitimate self care gear.

Laura Bowman: 10:33

Yes, it is. It's that apathetic like 1000 yard stare where it's like you couldn't give a crap. What is coming around the corner? You need to be left alone, like right now. You need to get responsibility off your plate. It's, and you know, I think for me what I'm describing, and those are old coping mechanisms for me, from when I was young as well. But that's my version of burnout, like maybe there isn't, there's like another rung lower that I think you can go far lower with burnout to the point where you're really like laying in bed and not going to work, so I think there's like multiple levels, but it's like can you catch yourself as you're starting to decompensate and starting to like slip in functioning,

Colette Fehr: 11:23

yeah, decompensate, meaning like you're kind of coping,

Laura Bowman: 11:27

yeah, you're breaking down, you care a little less, you're less effective at work, you're getting less done,

Colette Fehr: 11:35

yeah, and distinguish between a couple things, first of all, you can be burned out for the day, you know, where you come home and you're just like, oh my god, I am gonna die if I have to talk to another person. I think we definitely experienced this as counselors. I have a very high social battery. If I don't want to talk to people, I need rest, like that is a major sign. Now, it doesn't mean I'm slipping into a season of burnout, but it may be enough for that day. I need to go be quiet, and the most restorative thing for me is to read, but the other thing I want to distinguish between is stress, which is like I've got too much to do, I'm buzzing around, and maybe at moments I feel overwhelmed, but I haven't lost my sense of meaning or purpose, and burnout, which is when you reach a place where you're exhausted, detached, not effective, and you really feel like I don't even care. I only care. That's the major, and this is a season of chronicity, and you know, a couple more signs, just in terms of symptomatic, whether or not this applies to you, you're more irritable than usual, you can't concentrate, you're emotionally flat, like something that would normally bring a little joy, and you just kind of don't feel much like that, numbing out, you fantasize about escape, and, and we also mentioned the loss of anticipation and pleasure, but that fantasizing about escape, right, like something magical needs to happen, and I've been, I've been here too,

Laura Bowman: 13:16

yeah,

Colette Fehr: 13:17

where it's like maybe if I win the lottery, or I'll just imagine I live on an island by myself, and there's peace and quiet.

Laura Bowman: 13:26

Yeah, I'll just slip into the.. I used to think of, like, I would just like slip into a crowd, but he would ever find me again.

Colette Fehr: 13:34

Yeah, just wanting to eat, because it's too much. And I think this is really hard. What people don't realize is that you know, we all get tired and overwhelmed, but really getting into a season of this can dramatically impact your mental and physical health. I mean, this is the kind of stuff that can affect your heart health, that can lead to autoimmune disorders, all kinds of things, if you were not careful.

Laura Bowman: 14:01

Yeah, and I don't want to say that there's a type of person that this happens to, but I think there is a type of person that this is attracted that is trends towards burnout more easily. I think people who have a strong tendency to people please, who are very type A hard workers that like can really exceed their limits pretty easily for long periods of

Colette Fehr: 14:28

pull back when they could and should, because of that driver part,

Laura Bowman: 14:33

and that's what I'm saying, is like I don't have that, like I trend towards like my marble stays in the middle kind of automatically, like I have a hard time driving hard, so don't get there as quickly as some people do.

Colette Fehr: 14:46

You'll recalibrate, you'll go, okay, I've had too much, and I do this same thing,

Laura Bowman: 14:52

but I think some personalities don't have that, like the brakes aren't necessarily there, and they, they kind of like push forward hard, so they just burn out finds them more easily than other personalities.

Colette Fehr: 15:06

Yeah, it's a really great point. We see that in counseling, where to distinguish between what we talked about earlier, where you're going through something that's out of your control, that's happening to you, a season, which times that I've been burned out, it's been I'm thrust into something that's depleting, and I don't have the resources to cope with the existing amount of pressure and joylessness and exhaustion that's happening, versus somebody who there may be things, there may be room. Boom in your life, but you have parts of self that push you past capacity. The people pleasing, you're not speaking up for yourself, you're not setting boundaries. The hyper, the classic high functioning type A, hyper independent woman doesn't ask for help because nobody else does it right, who has beliefs of self that like only I can do it. Nobody else will do it if I don't.

Laura Bowman: 16:07

Nobody will help me. Nobody ever has, or I should, you know, I should be doing this.

Colette Fehr: 16:14

I should be able to get it all done.

Laura Bowman: 16:17

Yeah, and these are the people, you know, and I- we're going to talk in a minute about what helps with this, but these are the people that are always trying to optimize stress and always are adding things in to make it better. Well, I should be going to Pilates, that's what's going to make it better, or I should be like meal prepping, that's what's going to be making it better. So the list just gets

Colette Fehr: 16:39

making homemade organic baby food, yeah. Is it help? Well, and exactly, or.. and I've had this at seasons. I've had times I do believe in a good morning ritual. I don't.. I'm not doing it right now, but I've had seasons of life where I'm getting up early, I'm very intentional about meditation. I'm doing morning pages from Julia Cameron's artist way, where you write stream of consciousness and fill three pages. It's wonderful, wonderful activity for your creativity, and I will credit that with really helping me to be able to write my book, The Cost of Quiet. But there isn't always time and space for that, and sometimes you see this stuff, of like, get up and have boiling lemon water, and like,

Laura Bowman: 17:28

yes, that you hold shower,

Colette Fehr: 17:30

right? Right, exercise, do this, meditate. So you're right, a lot of times we can push ourselves to add more in an attempt to quell stress, but it actually contributes to burnout, and this is where I think really knowing yourself and being connected to yourself is so, so, so important, and of course one of the major things is not speaking up for yourself,

Laura Bowman: 17:58

yeah, not asking for help, not saying like I can't take anymore. I'm at capacity, like somebody's got to do xyz because I can't do it for a while.

Colette Fehr: 18:11

Yeah, and I'm even thinking absolutely in more general terms, though, about just when we talk about personality types or things that trend toward contributing to burnout, people who don't speak honestly and truthfully about what they're feeling and wanting and needing, because this comes from a lot of emotional depletion. Burnout really doesn't tend to be as much like right now I am super busy, but I realize I'm not feeling burned out, and the real, and I'm arguably too busy, so there's stress. Have you

Laura Bowman: 18:47

flirted with.. I feel like you flirted with burnout.

Colette Fehr: 18:50

Yeah, during the book launch season, for sure. When you told

Laura Bowman: 18:53

me about the airplane situation, I was like,"Oh shit, she's not good.

Colette Fehr: 18:58

Well, yeah, I mean, I don't really want to do that, but I watched this documentary, I can't remember what it was called, but it's about this guy, never heard the story, I think it's 2018 this guy who was working for an airline stole, like he was working for the airline as an air traffic control, like the guy who's on the runway with the lights, and if I'm getting the details wrong, you know. Don't come at me too hard, something like that. Well, he was feeling so actually burned out in his job, hopeless about getting a promotion, overwhelmed, like he was failing his wife, even though I don't know that she felt that way. That's how he was feeling about himself, he couldn't get ahead, despite working so hard, applying for jobs, applying for promotions, they weren't making financial ends meet, so he steals an airplane, and no, I mean, it's really sad, it really

Laura Bowman: 19:55

sad, but like this is when, like, burnout runs amok, right, it's like something desperate happens,

Colette Fehr: 20:03

right? I mean, this is a pretty extreme example, but I remember watching it, thinking, like, oh, wow, like he ends up running the plane into the ground, he didn't injure anyone else, but he took his own life, which is really, really heartbreakingly sad, you know, and I'm kind of sarcastically joking to you at this time, like, wow, never thought of that, and I don't mean to make light of somebody dying by suicide, of course.

Laura Bowman: 20:28

The context we talked about it in is that, like, oh my god, like this guy wanted something, he couldn't make it happen, like, what if it really doesn't get better, and like, what. If you reach a point of like hopelessness, where it's like you do something like dramatic, you know, but, but like it's like, what if you don't get what you want, and and I think that's where a lot of like real depletion comes from, because if you can feel like you're working hard in service for something, you can keep the climb going, but it's like when you feel like you're not being effective, or you're.. it's.. you may never get there. The hopelessness can be so heavy, and God forbid. And this has been like the season of selling my house. I mean, I haven't really talked a lot about it, but it's been so outside my control. I had expectations that it would be so much easier, it was so much harder. Mistakes were made, things were outside my control at times, and I had no

Colette Fehr: 21:32

shoe, a lot of money, like not just like, oh, that's a bummer, like hardship,

Laura Bowman: 21:37

real hardship, real unpredictability, and you have other things, other major milestones, sort of sitting on top of it, like you still have to function and work, you still have to like send a kid to college, you know, there's other stuff, and you're just like, I don't know if I can do all this or carry all this without, like, especially in the unpredictability of it all, so I think it's, it's hope. Hope can carry people through a lot of difficulty.

Colette Fehr: 22:08

Okay, I couldn't agree more. And when I look back on this season, where I was, and the times when I was really flirting with burnout connected to my book, a big part of it, it wasn't really the schedule, it was the loss of hope. I really wanted my book to be a New York Times bestseller, you know. It was a three year climb. I put all my resources in it. I was still working through this whole thing. That's where it starts to feel like I'm working all week, I'm flying around to these book events. You know, it does anyone even care, am I impacting anybody? And, of course, I was, but I wasn't feeling that always, and that's where it starts to feel the hopelessness, the pointlessness, you know, the loss of energy for it. And I think this is why I feel very stressed and busy now, every ridiculous amount on my plate again, and it doesn't feel the same way, because I feel connected to new goals. I'm hearing from people about how the book is impacting them in a less pressured way, you know. The book's selling, I've made peace with the fact that it's not going to be a New York Times bestseller. I mean, you never know, maybe one day in the future, but you know, I didn't accomplish that with launch, and I let myself grieve that and move on, and also I did what I needed, I readjusted some as soon as this busy launch season got over with, I realized, okay, I need some downtime, I need time with friends, really close people, for real connection. I need some quiet time. I need some mental space again. Some of these things that have to be brought back, but you are absolutely right that burnout is tied to a feeling of trapped loss of hope. Sisyphus pushing the boulder up the hill again and again and again and again, and I can't get out of this thing that isn't bringing me purpose and meaning.

Laura Bowman: 24:12

Yeah, you nailed it. And also, it's like 10 pounds of shit in a five pound bag, like you've got way too much, and some of that stuff is way too heavy, and maybe you could carry one of those things, but you can't carry three

Colette Fehr: 24:29

exactly, and

Laura Bowman: 24:30

so that's, and I think women at midlife, and this is why we're talking about it now, are so prone to falling or tripping into this season, because we are needed for some big things, I mean, watching parents age or need like help figuring out where you're gonna put them in an assisted living living facility, and you know those kinds of things like really drag people into overwhelm, and then with their careers, like there's so many compounding factors at this phase, that, and we have that loss of, like, somebody I was sitting with a friend, and she said, you know, our life as a family, we are not at that, that prime phase. She said, like, when I was 35 I had young kids, and everybody was growing and moving forward, and my parents were healthy, and they were, they were still able to like be active, and she's like, and I was in the prime of my life. She says, now it's like I'm grieving my kids, my parents are struggling with their health. She's like, I've gained weight, like I don't even like, not, and this is not burnout, but it's the, it's the setup. Job like life is a little bit like heavier and not as well.

Colette Fehr: 25:47

I agree, I agree, and I think this is why part of like, let's start talking about the tips of what can help is we've got to find some purpose and meaning even in the midst, because the reality is we're in the sandwich generation at midlife, we're caring for aging parents. We're losing our parents. We have, in many ways, you know, our children. Some people are still caring for children, or we're sending them off into the world. People have busy careers, a lot of people, not everyone, but have real financial stressors. You know, I think this is something that we as therapists really understand, because people talk about it in the therapy room. A lot of those people you see in the big houses that don't seem like they have a care in the world have a lot of financial problems that we don't see on social media, retirement goals aren't being met debts, massive expenses for kids in college, feeling this feeling that I hear from a lot of clients, and I can relate to it, just hemorrhaging money, bleeding money, and even if you're kind of okay, that can feel really scary, so the, you know, you can't fix the variables of this season, sometimes, but we've got to find things that genuinely bring, and it's not just we need to have fun, it's not a frickin' bubble bath, it's not a day at the spa, it's something deeper than that,

Laura Bowman: 27:15

it's not an evening at the bar, it's, it's, you know, it's, I think the biggest thing is, like, step one is what can you take off your plate,

Colette Fehr: 27:26

subtraction,

Laura Bowman: 27:26

editing, you know? I learned this back to my house drama. I learned this by, we, I put almost all my stuff in boxes, and I had, like, very little in my house. And then, and the mental effect of that was quite pleasing. I felt my life felt very simple and straightforward, and I think this goes for responsibilities. It goes for being able to say no to things, like take a step back and really simplifying and streamlining your life. Maybe you do that for just a little while, but it can have a huge impact.

Colette Fehr: 28:03

I agree. Instead of adding a new workout and a new meditation, if you're flirting with burnout, take things off, pull back, simplify your life, and this may include delegating, you know, and you might not be that comfortable with that. Ask for help, even if you're not comfortable with it, let people do things for you, or tasks that you would normally handle yourself, because they have to be just so. Let people do them imperfectly, and pull back to simplify, clean things out, spend time at home going for walks, and the number two is connected to this non digital connection, and I really want to specify the non digital, because this, not that there isn't a place for social media, I'm not saying it's all bad, even though I really don't think it's great, but it doesn't produce the same neuro chemicals, we need the oxytocin that comes from being with people in proximate real physical presence, eye contact, laughter, deep. There's a reason laughter yoga, even though I know it sounds crazy, and I've never done it, there's a reason it's a big thing. Laughter produces neuro chemicals that make you feel better, and when you are with people who know you and care about you, and you can really talk about what you're experiencing, and hear that they might relate and laugh with them, and there's no better medicine.

Laura Bowman: 29:39

I still remember our trip to Del Rey, where we spent that whole night laughing. Do you remember that?

Colette Fehr: 29:47

Yes, and I don't remember even why, or I know

Laura Bowman: 29:49

why, but it was like just so freaking funny.

Colette Fehr: 29:55

I remember,

Laura Bowman: 29:56

no hard, and I can still think about that, and I can be like that was like peak, right? Like, when you're with somebody that you like are close to, something is so genuinely funny, you're like in tears, like, oh, that's the stuff,

Colette Fehr: 30:12

it's so true. And we just laughed the whole night uncontrollably, nothing and everything. I know it's making me laugh to think about it, but you know, as we're subtracting, maybe you're not going to a million cocktail parties and random things, and feeling pressure to network, or saying yes to even party invitations, or whatever might feel obligatory, say no, it's okay, but spend. Time with a good friend, reach out to somebody, quality,

Laura Bowman: 30:44

quality over quantity,

Colette Fehr: 30:46

quality connection, which we don't tend to want to reach out when we're in this state, because of that urge to hibernate, but this is when you need your people the most.

Laura Bowman: 30:55

I agree, and then I would also say, like, just go back to basics, this is a time to like eat as well as you can, like you nurture yourself, like, like you have the flu, almost like you, you put yourself to bed at a decent time, you get a

Unknown: 31:09

walk

Laura Bowman: 31:10

in nature, you touch grass, you see sun, you, you like, treat yourself like an ill patient, and make sure you're just like doing the basics of caring for yourself, and that is the big rock, like that is the biggest thing you can do,

Colette Fehr: 31:25

because this is really about recharging the emotional battery, not, it's not really a physical, I'm so busy, it's really getting back to you've almost got to reset all of your basic components with a dose of connection every day, a dose of nature, right? Like you said, touch grass, feel the sun, go for, and if you can't manage a lot, go for a short walk. I mean, it's amazing how these little things, where you pull back and take care of yourself can start to recharge the battery, even in little ways, and all of this may be enough to also give you some space to go. Okay, what do I need to, how do I need to do live differently? Because that's really what burnout is a sign, if you're willing to listen to your body, that maybe I can't control these external variables, but I need to live my life differently. I can't carry the mental load anymore. I can't swallow my words and live in the cave of resentment, as I always call it. I can't continue to work this job that I don't really need financially or logistically, but I've been doing for 20 years, and I'm scared to let go of because it's my identity, like what? Maybe I can't stay in this marriage anymore because it's costing me too much. So you need the space and the emotional energy to really evaluate your life too.

Laura Bowman: 33:00

Yeah, yeah, and that's it. Takes a little bit of courage to do that, and people, you know, have their coping mechanisms, and there's this amazing thing on how it's talking about burnout and what surrender looks like, and it's this like cartoon of this woman who's knitting, she's knitting compulsively, but as she knits, it's pulling her over the cliff, and she can't put it down, and she runs out of string. Have you seen this

Colette Fehr: 33:26

one? Yes.

Laura Bowman: 33:27

And then she starts knitting her hair, because she's just so compulsive, right? And then

Colette Fehr: 33:32

keep going,

Laura Bowman: 33:33

yeah, she keeps going, and she just runs out of hair, and finally she like falls over the cliff with her hair, and because she can't stop, and she finally, like, is climbing up over the cliff, and her hair's all gone, like she took the strategy all the way to the end, because she couldn't pull back, and finally she's laying there, depleted, like, oh my god, like, what, I'm ruined, I'm just like, I'm done, I'm cooked, and then she looks at her knitting needles, and she's like, oh, it was like it was this, and then she finally throws them over the cliff, but it took destroying herself, eviscerating herself before she could like let go, and I think that's the story of a lot of people who have to confront, especially some of these personalities that have to confront burnout, their strategies are the last thing to go. They don't know how to put them down, and that's, you know, a lot of the work,

Colette Fehr: 34:28

and that's what we're saying exactly. It's the perfect vignette. Don't let it get to that place, because people will, we see with clients, this is so common. The strategies, you know human beings don't want to change. We don't like change. We will keep doing what's familiar, which feels better, even when it's really bad for us. So part of this reframe is ask yourself, instead of, oh well, this is happening to me. Okay, certain things might be happening that I can't control, but what within the way I'm living could change even if it scares me. Just start to ask questions, right? Ask yourself if you're wondering if this applies to you today. When was the last time I really looked forward to something? And if you can't answer yes and nothing comes to mind, that might be a sign. And ask yourself, when was the last time I felt recharged, purposeful, hopeful, excited about where my life is heading, and if you can't think of a time, or that doesn't feel true for you, you know, these may be signs that burnout applies, so as we close out here, you know. What helps. Just to recap, what we're saying, start subtracting. Do not add new rituals, workout routines, take things off your plate, delegate, pull back, make time and space, though, for real, meaningful connection with close, safe, reliable loved ones, non-digital, not on your phone, face to face. Make sure you're recovering emotionally through that connection. It's not really just physical, your nervous system needs to reset. Get out in nature, small doses of things to nurture yourself as if you were sick. Touch grass, see the sky, feel the sun on your face. Go for a short walk, and it goes without saying, speak up, tell the truth about what you feel, and what you want, and what you need. Give yourself permission to say no, and have boundaries. If you are holding on to things and pushing them inside, all of this contributes to a life in which you're susceptible to burnout. So, start doing those behaviors now.

Laura Bowman: 36:43

That was a really great, you just like recap the whole thing, but I do want to say the last thing is that be mindful that the consciousness that created the burnout is not necessarily the consciousness that's going to get you out of

Colette Fehr: 36:57

it. Yeah,

Laura Bowman: 36:58

you may have to like really shift into like what am I not willing, like, what is the thing that I'm not willing to look at that's going to be the thing that's really going to help me here, because, right, yeah, we tend to just drift, you know, with those knitting needles, like, to try to solve the problem, but it's really the putting down of the knitting needles that's going to get you in the other direction,

Colette Fehr: 37:19

yeah, and I think just an example of that would be how I'm approaching this season, like I am such a worker bee that I could feel myself going back to having 1000 therapy sessions a week again, because, like, that's what I do and what I've done for 15 years, and that's natural, and I really enjoy therapy in a lot of ways, but I had to get very conscious about that's my familiarity, that's my drift, that's my automatic go-to. But now I'm not just a therapist, I have these other things that I'm doing with my life and my career, so I have to be very conscious about breaking my old patterns and doing what might be a little bit uncomfortable, but will prevent me from hitting burnout. So think about how that applies to you, and hopefully this gave you some great markers to evaluate if you're flirting with burnout. If you're already there, if you are there, maybe it's time to go talk to a professional, get a really good coach, talk to a therapist, at least get into conversation with a friend about it, because a lot of people are struggling with this. You're not alone, and sometimes you need a little perspective and help to deal with it. So, if, if nothing else, maybe this helps you prevent yourself from getting there.

Laura Bowman: 38:41

Amen. Think we did

Colette Fehr: 38:43

it. Yeah. Well, we hope, as always, you got some valuable insights from our couch today, and we look forward to seeing you guys next time.

Laura Bowman: 38:53

Bye, guys.

Unknown: 39:03

Bye.