Ep. 107: Do You Have Emotional Intelligence-Or Do You Just Think You Do?

Emotional intelligence isn't something you're born with—it's a skill you can strengthen, and it has the power to transform your relationships, your confidence, and your overall well-being. In this episode, we're unpacking what high EQ really looks like (hint: it's probably different than you think) and sharing the key markers of emotional maturity that help people thrive at work, at home, and within themselves.

Join us as we explore practical ways to become more self-aware, regulate emotions, communicate with greater clarity, and navigate relationships with more compassion and confidence. Whether you're looking to grow personally or strengthen your connections with others, this conversation will leave you with plenty to reflect on—without giving away all the insights before you hit play.

Episode Highlights

[0:00] – Why emotional intelligence matters more than ever in midlife.

[1:25] – What EQ really is—and the common misconceptions people have about it.

[5:44] – The difference between sensing something is wrong and assuming you know why.

[8:58] – Learning to recognize, name, and express emotions in healthy ways.

[13:54] – Self-compassion, emotional regulation, and why feeling your emotions matters.

[17:00] – Understanding your needs and learning to ask for them.

[20:10] – Conflict, repair, and why emotionally healthy relationships can handle hard conversations.

[24:52] – Receiving feedback without shame or defensiveness.

[28:54] – Why your words, body language, and emotions need to align.

[30:38] – Emotional intelligence is built through intentional practice—not just age.

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Transcript

Colette Fehr: 0:46

welcome to Insights from the Couch, where real conversations meet real life at midlife, where Colette and Laura, two therapists and best friends, walking through the journey right alongside you. Whether you're feeling stuck, restless, or just unsure of what's next, this is a space for honest conversations, messy truths, and meaningful change. And our midlife master class is now open. If you're looking to level up, get into action, and make midlife the best season yet, go to Insights from the couch.org and join our wait list. Now, let's dive in. Welcome back to another episode of Insights from the Couch. We're so happy you're here and excited to dig into a great topic today, EQ, emotional intelligence. So, as therapists, we hear a lot of people who think they have high EQ and maybe not as much as they think, and also we are people works in progress, just like you, who are trying to develop more emotional intelligence, because it makes for better relationships, it makes for better internal well-being. So, let's dive in. We're going to share seven markers of EQ. Some might surprise you, maybe you already do these things, and maybe some of this will point out a couple of places that you might work on and grow,

Laura Bowman: 2:05

you know. I think when I think of this, immediately comes to mind is that people either think they have this or they don't, and I think there's this type of emotional intelligence that is very personality strength, and that's that empathic ability to sense what another person must be feeling, to kind of be able to read the room, read body language, infer other people's feelings without, like, consume, assuming, but just like in that inference ability that I think some people just don't have, and then the intra personal like awareness of what's going on inside me, and when people have those two things, I think they feel very emotionally intelligent, and yet there's all these other skills, right?

Colette Fehr: 3:00

Yes, and I think what's so interesting. I just have to jump in with this, because you, you said it. I think that there are people. Okay, first of all, let's set the stage, because we talked about this a little book before the episode, that even though you just hit a great summary of it, people tend to think they're either emotionally intelligent, and they're not, and these aren't such fixed capacities. Sure, some of us are more, have higher EQ. It's wired into our personality. Some people are more literal, and they're better with numbers, right? Some people are better with people, but no matter where you fall on that, you can improve your EQ. You can raise it, and it's something that's worth doing. I mean, it's the heart of connection and success at work, success at home, and inner peace and well-being. So, this is valuable for everybody, but as you were talking, what struck me immediately is something that I think people misunderstand often, this sense you have that you can pick up on what other people are feeling, okay? I think if you have high EQ, you're more attuned to other people. You can feel the vibration. Your intuition will say, 'Oh, something's off, or 'Wait, I don't know what to make of the way they responded to me, or even something that can veer into social anxiety, like, 'I'll think about what I said, and maybe I shouldn't have said it, that you know, or and sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong, but I think a big difference is that really having a high EQ means that you can sense something, but you don't assume you know what it means, you know, people will always say yes, yes, because I think a lot of people are like, oh, I know they were upset, they're upset that I did that, I spent too much money, that's actually not a sign of high EQ. You may pick up on the fact that they're upset, but there could be a million reasons, and many of them may not be your interpretation, or even possibly have anything to do with you.

Laura Bowman: 5:00

Yeah, I think you're nailing it, because I think this is what we see, like an internet culture, or just like people who find themselves like, oh, I mean, have you seen that thing where it's like I'm expert at pattern recognition, and like, you know, it's like, no, you're probably pretty anxious and like overly attuned, and you don't know what any to make any of it mean, and the person who really has high emotional intelligence is really able to hold it all kind of loosely and be curious and to check it out and to be able to, to you know, like ask

Colette Fehr: 5:32

exactly. So just to get really specific here on this one, you know, it's the difference between you. Detect something's off, you can feel it, and I do think high attunement goes with emotional intelligence, and that's when you're very connected to what people are feeling. You pick up on energy, but you know, just like you said, that even if it feels 100% true, this is the meaning making of your brain, and you might not be right, and it's not very relational to go to people with assumptions, and part of emotional intelligence means knowing that you can't know what's happening inside of someone else, you can just know what you're picking up on, so you know if I come home and my husband comes home from work, and he's being short and curt, you know. If we're in a relatively good place, I'll probably assume it's something to do with the office. If we're not in a good place for some reason, I'll probably assume it's something to do with me. And an EQ response to this, instead of just going, you know, shutting down or withdrawing, telling myself a story and assuming it's true, or lashing out at him, like, don't take out your work shit on me. You know, instead, I could say, hey, I'm sensing that you seem preoccupied or a little distant, you know. I don't know what it's about, but my mind's making up that it's about me or it's about work, you know. Can you let me know what's going on, and checking it out, like you said,

Laura Bowman: 7:08

out. I mean, how many times I feel like I just got done with some sessions today where I ask, I find myself asking the question, did you ask, have you asked, if that's what it is. Well, no, I never asked, but I know, but it's like, okay, we're not checking anything out, and just like that little phrasing you said, I'm telling myself the story, just that little bit of awareness of like this is what I've made your behavior mean, is a layer of like emotional intelligence that you can infuse into checking things.

Colette Fehr: 7:46

I emphasize this in my book. I talk about it all the time. I name it the negative partner story, but of course it can apply in any relationship, and it is so important. People don't ask, we make assumptions, and we have to know that our brains do this. The brain's a meaning making machine, so there's always going to be a narrative, but part of EQ is knowing that you can't trust it. It may feel true, but it's not necessarily true. You can only speak for you and what you sense, the fact that you sensed something. Let other people speak for themselves.

Laura Bowman: 8:19

Yeah, and this is something like I think, as an early therapist, as somebody who is sort of empathic and attuned, is one of the errors I made very like early on in my life and my career is just thinking that I knew everything.

Colette Fehr: 8:33

Yep, me too,

Laura Bowman: 8:34

right? And it's like, okay, you know, humble yourself, honey, and like just get curious,

Colette Fehr: 8:42

yeah. Because, as therapists, we have to do that, like, oh, it sounds like maybe it's this, you know, as we're listening to a client, we do active listening, and we're feeding back what we're hearing, but we're not always going to interpret right. It's the game of telephone, so you learn as a therapist to say, am I getting that right? Does that feel like it fits? Let people speak for their own experience, so it's that combination of I can sense I know what people are feeling, but the higher level is knowing that you can't be certain that you're sensing something, but only others can speak for their own experience, and you let them. Ah,

Laura Bowman: 9:21

this is good shit, all right. Let's slow down the list.

Colette Fehr: 9:25

Yeah, all right. So, I went a little out of order, so you do the next

Laura Bowman: 9:28

one. Okay, this is a big one. This is a big one. You know what you feel, you can name it, and you can let it move through you.

Colette Fehr: 9:39

It's kind of everything. It's everything, and Lira, and as you say this, when we say you know what you feel, and you can name it, it's not the story. Your feelings aren't you were mad because I spent too much money last month, that is. I feel like you're mad. I feel like I'm never good enough. That's not your feelings, that's not naming your feelings, that's your interpretation. So, what we're talking about here are naming core emotions, and there can be some value in getting granular with them, but mostly things come down to fear, sadness, hurt, disappointment, shame, joy, surprise. It's like primary colors. There's really only a few. Anger, yeah? Right? Can you name what you're actually doing emotionally, and can you feel your feelings instead of compartmentalizing them, shoving them down, pretending you don't have them, and then they come out sideways on people?

Laura Bowman: 10:39

Yes, and. This is so huge, is just being able. I give people feeling wheels for this reason, because it's like getting into, like, Nate, put your finger on the feeling, like you do a lot of social media content about this, that people think they're they're naming the negative partner story, but they're not naming the, they're feeling the

Colette Fehr: 11:01

emotional experience.

Laura Bowman: 11:03

Yes, like I feel shame. I'm feeling a wave of shame when I see the look on your face,

Colette Fehr: 11:10

exactly. And you know, obviously this is such a big deal, because this is so much of emotional health, not just EQ, and what we're trying to help clients move toward in therapy. So many people didn't grow up in households where there was any permission to feel, there was no modeling of healthy emotional expression, especially for us at midlife, generationally, no one talked about feelings at all, it was like weird, it was not welcomed, even in healthier households, so this can be new for a lot of people, and obviously, as therapists, we had to learn how to do this in our training, but you can start to do this on your own, and the first signal of emotions is noticing something's happening in your body, there's a pit in your stomach, there's some tension in your chest, there's a heavy feeling, right, that heavy feeling often goes with sadness, activation, tingling energy, that might mean anger. So pay attention to your body cues for this one, and see, just start to practice. Use a feelings wheel. You can Google feelings wheel, and 1000 of them pop up. This is a very valuable skill for everyone to have, and the second part of it, of course, is allowing the feelings to be there. Yes, because Jill Bolt Taylor, the neuroscientist, you may be familiar with her work too, but she talks about how most emotions will expire in about 90 seconds, fascinating neurologically if you allow them. Now, what happens is that we get into thoughts, and then those thoughts can perpetuate the feeling, so you feel something. I actually personally believe you feel first, then you make meaning, and you have a thought, and then what you think can perpetuate the emotions. But if you allow yourself this is a moment where I'm feeling hurt and sad, the more you give your emotions permission, the more they'll move through your system.

Laura Bowman: 13:04

Yes, I think what you're, you're getting out is really important. It's like, can you go to the feeling? I love, like, when you put your heart on your hand, on your heart, because I do this a lot too, of like, can I feel like that's me connecting with the feeling, like, okay, shame, like I'm gonna breathe through it, I'm gonna be with it, I'm meeting it, I'm mothering it, I'm with it, right?

Colette Fehr: 13:22

You're parenting yourself in real time, you're self-parenting,

Laura Bowman: 13:25

but where we go, I think, and this is like the faux emotionally intelligent skill that people think it's that e-cognitive emotional experience where you're like, I think what I'm feeling is, I think what I'm feeling, and because I'm feeling this, is I'm feeling it because of data, and you're just feeding it and

Colette Fehr: 13:48

intellectualizing, which isn't the same as what we're talking about. I'm so glad you said that, because a lot of people can speak cognitively about their emotional experience from the very logical part of the brain. We're talking about taking a moment to connect, I love the putting your hand on your heart, too. I do that because it's sort of a signal to check in. In fact, I did it this morning. I had an unpleasant relational experience where I felt like someone was upset with me. Things like that bother me a lot because I'm very relational. I don't even care whose fault it is, or if there's fault. It just, if someone's upset with me that I care about, it really, really bothers me. And then, especially if I don't know what's wrong, like I really don't feel great until it's been repaired, and you can always have control over that. So I took a moment just to recognize what was happening in my body, and to say to myself from Kristin Neff's work with self-compassion, you know, this is a moment of suffering, like I'm hurting, I feel bad, I don't like this feeling, and yet I'm allowing it to be, and knowing I'm here with myself somewhere around the world, somebody else is also done or said something wrong and is feeling upset, just like me. That universality can help. It's just so important to let yourself feel it and let it move through your body, because otherwise this is when people get sick, is they stuff it down and you get mentally and physically sick from that,

Laura Bowman: 15:17

or you get ruminative, and this is where I think people find them, they think they're savvy, and they're just.. it's a lot more simple. It's like, go to the feeling, go to the feeling, the feeling is probably somewhere in your body. Yeah, go to the feeling,

Colette Fehr: 15:32

yeah. And, and let it recognize, like, I still don't feel totally great. I feel a little bit better, but I know it will move. Through, if I don't fight it or get into ruminatory thinking, like it's just it happened, I did what I could, and now the feelings will expire when they're ready to. Yeah, I

Laura Bowman: 15:52

love that.

Colette Fehr: 15:53

Yeah, we've got to listen to their messages, you know. Emotions are here as messengers about maybe we need something, maybe we want to not make the same mistake next time, you know? Maybe it's just a moment to recognize our humanity and practice being self-forgiving.

Laura Bowman: 16:12

So emotionally astute of you, Colette, like I picture, like letting emotions expire is so different than what I think a lot of people do, which is like play whack a mole with a feeling like, oh shit, a feeling, boom, you know, like gotta get rid of it.

Colette Fehr: 16:27

And honestly, that's what I did when I was young, like I actually said to myself in the car this morning, I don't like how I'm feeling, I don't like this feeling, like I want to be rid of it, I don't feel good, and it's natural if something feels hurtful or painful, that you want to get rid of it, but emotional intelligence means you have the emotional, I think the emotional maturity to recognize the desire to get rid of the emotion is natural, but that the healthier thing for you to do is to just allow it, and you know, in a way, maybe what we're really talking about here is emotional maturity that comes from emotional intelligence.

Laura Bowman: 17:10

Yeah, it's experience with this stuff to where you get like finally you're able to have a layer. I feel like I always have like the wise, like the sage self you talk about in my mind, even if I have a very young part that's activated, who wants to be like, "get rid of it, like, who wants to pick up a baseball bat half the time, you know? I've got like the sage self being like, "Alright, put it down, okay? You know, so it's developing that narrative in your head,

Colette Fehr: 17:40

and it's worth working on, so this one connects to another one, and we're just going to go out of order from our notes here, knowing what you need and asking for it, right, being able to name your emotions is how you figure out what you need, and what strikes me so often in therapy is how much people are so disconnected from their inner world that we talk a lot about expressing your needs, can't express them if you don't know what they are, and I think people with high EQ, to your point, tend to be connected not only relationally but inside and know more what they need in a given moment, whether it's a behavior change from someone to make their own behavior change or just comfort reassurance from self or others.

Laura Bowman: 18:26

Yes, and I love this because it's like knowing what you need and how to ask for it. Again, I think some people think like being nice or being easy or being or people pleasing is really like this high emotionally. I know we don't really think it's emotionally intelligent, but it's, it's a skill people try to cling to, to make the, to manipulate the environment, right? But emotionally intelligent people know that they, it's okay to have needs, and that they can actually ask for them.

Colette Fehr: 18:56

Yes, and a big myth I talk about in my book that always comes up around this is people assume that people who are close to them and love them should know what they need and just do it, and that is really the greatest fantasy that perpetuates so much harm. It's really not what it is to be an adult, it's really a way of protecting ourselves from having to take the risk to be vulnerable, that belief, and we've got to challenge

Laura Bowman: 19:24

it. I agree, I agree, it's hard. So, okay, let's go to another one, and I think this kind of goes in line, is like people who have high emotional intelligence know how to repair, they know how to do the work of repair, they can go through the rupture and repair cycle, and they know it's normal, and they take responsibility for either initiating or participating in that repair cycle.

Colette Fehr: 19:53

Yeah, and they know the importance of it, right? Because relationships are just rupture, repair. If you're close to someone, you will inevitably step on their toes, and that's really okay, you know. I have to just mention, because I wrote an article about friendship that I'm going to share on my Substack soon, and we recorded our great episode on friendship that's now out, so it got me thinking, and I read this article in The Cut, which is part of New York Magazine, about friendship breakups, because it's, you know, been on my mind since we did the episode, and this lady, who's a longtime researcher, was talking about basically the opposite of what we advocate for. It was shocking to me. She talked about how, you know, I spend all this time. Doing research and telling people they should have hard conversations, which you know is my whole mission, but, like, really, I can't help but wonder if I'm giving them bad advice. Most, most friendships are conflict-avoidant, but she tells the story of very vulnerably telling a friend that she had had her feelings hurt, and the friend visibly recoiled, and it affected the friendship, and she's like, I can't help but wonder if I had just let it go, if the friendship would have been preserved. But then she says the most telling thing, and who knows if the reporter quoted her out of context, but I wonder if a friendship that fragile would have survived anyway. That's the thing. If you can't tell somebody, like an emotionally intelligent person, will recognize that there might be some internal defensiveness. Maybe they even get a little defensive initially, but they are going to want to repair with you. If you tell someone you hurt my feelings, especially if you say my feelings were hurt, and you don't come at them with an attack. Someone with high EQ is going to say, "Oh my gosh, okay, that's really hard to hear. And I'm so sorry. You know, this is the no friendship where you can't express that your feelings are hurt. That is an emotionally immature person, and maybe some other things too, but that's not that should be a healthy thing that should be tolerated in a good friendship.

Laura Bowman: 22:08

Yeah, I mean, I think of marriage too. I mean, and I think of what is it, Lindsay, Dr. Lindsey Gibson's work on the emotionally immature parent. You know, the whole thing about emotionally immature individuals is that you can't participate in this cycle of rupture and repair because you're always met with like defensiveness, anger, withdrawal, you know, whatever behavior they have to do to deflect and, and sort of wriggle out of this cycle and taking accountability, so I mean, you just know when you're dealing with somebody like that, that then emotionally mature relationships just have a hard time setting up.

Colette Fehr: 22:46

Yeah, and I think when you have high EQ, especially as we get older, you know, if there's someone that you can't repair with, or you're not even able to have those conversations, those little relationships you might start to move away from, or if they're forced upon you, you might just have boundaries where you don't engage as much. It's going to affect the relationship, because I think what we're pointing to with all of these things also is that people with high EQ tend to be relational, you know, they, they want to, they, and that doesn't mean people pleasing, but that does mean being responsive, listening, having curiosity, giving people the benefit of the doubt, apologizing, and taking accountability when there's a misstep, and repairing, and I think this dovetails nicely into another one, which is taking, I just kind of mentioned it, but taking responsibility without collapsing into shame.

Laura Bowman: 23:46

Oh, I mean, I'm sure you've seen this in marriages, like where one partner just cannot hear anything,

Colette Fehr: 23:54

no matter how it said. I've also lived it in my personal life. I mean, I think emotionally intelligent people know the value of hearing hard feedback. They understand that it may be difficult at times for all of us to hear that we've done something wrong or someone's upset with us, but that good relationships require feedback, and they'll own their part and work on staying regulated, right? Meaning, if somebody comes to you and says, hey, you know, when you said that the other day, it's still sticking with me. It hurt my feelings. It rubbed me the wrong way. That instead of getting defensive or shutting down or firing back with what they did wrong another time, well, you say things like that to me too, right? It's being able to take a beat, take a time out if you need to, or just even take a breath, overcome that amygdala hijack, and say, "Wow, you know, I'm really glad you told me. It's hard to hear, but thanks for sharing that with me. I hurt you, and I want to understand it.

Laura Bowman: 25:00

It's such an unlock, right? Like, it's.. I mean, I know in my own marriage, because my husband has come to me and said what you said really hurt my feelings, or you know, that's really sticking with me still. Like, instead of me trying to explain where I was coming from, or justify, or.. or say, well, you've said things that hurt my feelings too, but when I am able to just say, you know, you're right, I, I'm so sorry that I did that. I want to take responsibility for that, and it shifts the tone of everything. It kind of unlocks things

Colette Fehr: 25:33

100% and I think this is one that I used to not be good at, because I used to get so upset. And so filled with shame, and I still do feel upset if I have done something wrong, upset or hurt someone, and you know, whether that's being a people pleaser, codependent, being relational, probably a little bit of all of the above, and just being a sensitive person, I think, who is attuned, but this is something I've really had to work on in being married and having more mature connected friendships, and also in running my own business, that clients will say to you, especially doing marriage counseling, you know, I'm always encouraging people to tell me if I have messed up or if something was hurtful or if somehow the room felt unbiased. I think I do a really good job, but you don't know how or what is going to land a certain way, and we, I have to make it safe in the space to tell me, hey, you know, in the last session, and I've had times when it's been really challenging to take that and not make it mean something about me as a therapist, or resist the urge to explain, but I'm so much better for it, and it's so reparative to say, okay, tell me more about that. Thank you for sharing. I'm going to reflect on that. I'm really sorry I hurt you, and knowing that I know me, that my character isn't on the line here. This is about somebody else being able to tell me how they felt and show up for that conversation.

Laura Bowman: 27:03

Yeah, I had like a run-in with my daughter last night, where we were on the phone and she's kind of going through like a breakup and she was venting, and I've been doing a lot of like that. Oh my gosh, I know it's like so tough, it's like hard, you know, this breakups. I've been doing a lot of emotional labor, but just to be like reflective listening and being a good mom, and but I asked a very ill-timed question, and she just like snapped at me, and was like this, like this conversation's over. I mean, she was kind of nasty to me, honestly, she was nasty, but it was because she was angry in a bad place, and I made an ill-timed question, and I immediately like took responsibility for it, like I said, like, look, I know you're going through a lot, it was like a poorly timed question, don't worry about it, and so it's like, can, but I felt self-righteous, there was a part of myself that I was like, what, she's like taking her her sadness and her hurt out on me, and it's not fair, but in the moment I just owned my side of the street,

Colette Fehr: 28:07

and that's what you have to do. You have to own your side of the street. It's about impact, not intentions. Do not talk about your intentions. Do not explain yourself. Maybe at some times there's there's a place for that, but it's after the repair has happened, and I think this is something people with higher EQ and the emotional maturity piece really understand the value in doing, even when it's hard. So, let's go to the last one we've got for you today, because I think this is a biggie that people with higher EQ and emotional maturity, you tend to like what you see on the outside matches the inside. They're congruent. Yeah, to say I'm having kind of a hard day, but I'm hanging in there, you know. They're just.. they live authentically to what they're experiencing. This doesn't mean that if you're going through something, you go to work and have a meltdown, of course. I'm not saying that, but there isn't that fake pasted on bullshit mask, just somebody who knows the value of being human and doesn't mind letting the world see that.

Laura Bowman: 29:15

Yeah, and it gives it like I think people sense this when you are congruent, and it just breeds a strong sense of trust, of like, I know what I'm gonna get with this person. People who are highly emotionally intelligent, we tend to trust who are congruent like that, because we know what version of them we're gonna get.

Colette Fehr: 29:35

Yep, and the classic example is somebody who's like, "I'm fine, and they're not fine at all,

Laura Bowman: 29:41

they're holding on to their fingernails. Yeah,

Colette Fehr: 29:44

exactly. And there's no need to do it that way. You don't have to completely dissolve into emotion, but you know what, I'm having a hard time. That's so much more emotionally honest. It connects you to people more, and it helps your own internal processing. So, the point of all these EQ markers isn't some people have it and some people don't. It's really that we can all develop it. These are things that are worth working on for our own well-being and our relationships, and it goes far beyond a romantic partnership. It's your friendships, it's your relationships at work, you know, work on tolerating feedback, work on being curious. Notice that you have a story, and that it might not be that true. Know when you feel something, and allow yourself to feel it. Be a little more transparent about who you are, especially at midlife, like this is the time, right? The whole zero fucks movement, or you know what's that other. 80, who's like, we don't care, her whole platform, yeah. Okay, then just be who you are, because this really is emotional intelligence is about having more connection and a better life.

Laura Bowman: 30:53

Yeah, and I just want to underscore that idea of like, either you have it or you don't, like, I mean, this is stuff I'm, as somebody who feels like they're fairly emotionally intelligent, I mean, it's my career is based on I'm still getting better and better at these things, and I don't, I don't think we should walk around and say things like I don't do emotions well, or I don't, you know, it's like, don't say that, like you, everybody can get better.

Colette Fehr: 31:16

I agree,

Laura Bowman: 31:17

yeah, get curious, I

Colette Fehr: 31:19

agree, I think I've always been highly attuned, but I look back on some of the things that I've said or done, and think, "Wow, that wasn't so emotionally intelligent. And I also consider myself to have high EQ and have tested that way. These are things that get better with time, but you don't just get more emotionally intelligent because you get older. You have to work at it, and this is a worthwhile pursuit. So, hopefully we gave you some good things to think about, and if you checked all these boxes, good for you, and keep working on them too, because we can all improve together.

Laura Bowman: 31:55

Amen. All right, all right.

Colette Fehr: 31:58

Your green line, we hope you got some good insights from our couch today, and we'll see you next time.

Laura Bowman: 32:03

Bye, guys.

Unknown: 32:15

Bye.