The Future Is Human: Eric Rodriguez on Technology, Montessori, and the Power of Purpose

What if technology didn’t replace our humanity—but helped us deepen it? In this episode, Eric Rodriguez—engineer, keynote speaker, and facilitator of the AMS Innovation Think Tank—shares how a formative experience in his Montessori-inspired childhood sparked a lifelong passion for technology, ultimately shaping his mission to create a more human-centered digital future.

Hosts Biff Maier and Nicole Coman explore with Eric:

• How a seventh-grade encounter with a school computer lab in Ecuador ignited his path into engineering and digital innovation
• Lessons from his work in the energy and tech industries, and how they shaped his understanding of technology as a tool for empathy and inclusion
• Why the distinction between a “job” and your “work” can transform your purpose
• His role in shaping AMS’s Innovation Think Tank and the importance of Montessori’s continued evolution
• AI as a “curiosity companion”—and how it can support educators, learners, and communities
• What it means to design tools that extend, rather than replace, our humanity

With warmth, insight, and vision, Eric offers a compelling reminder that even in an age of algorithms, empathy, agency, and human connection matter most.

Eric Rodriguez is a speaker with the goal to help audiences navigate and thrive in the digital era, championing a future where technology amplifies our human experience.

https://ericjrodriguez.com/

Educating the Human Potential is a podcast about optimizing education for a better society, through a Montessori lens. Hosts Nicole Coman, a licensed educational psychologist specializing in school psychology and child development -- and a "Montessori mom" -- and Biff Maier, an American Montessori Society Living Legacy with decades of experience as a Montessori educator and school leader, engage with experts, educators, parents, and students. Each episode explores strategies to unlock human potential, offering thought-provoking conversations on learning, child development, and the evolving landscape of education. This podcast is presented by AMS, the American Montessori Society.

For more information about Montessori education, visit https://amshq.org/about-montessori/

And consider this AMS course for families interested in incorporating the Montessori philosophy into their day-to-day lives and parenting approach:
https://learn.amshq.org/parent-course-early-childhood

Transcript

00:00:03:08 - 00:00:13:17
Biff
Welcome to Educating the Human Potential. This is the podcast about optimizing education for a better society through a montessori lens. My name is Biff Mayor and.

00:00:13:17 - 00:00:24:09
Nicole
I'm Nicole Coman. And today in our episode, we were lucky enough to sit down with Eric Rodriguez. Eric was a really fun guest to have today. Don't you think?

00:00:24:10 - 00:00:30:09
Biff
Yes. He's always a fun guy. I mean, he is. He's such a connector and, you know.

00:00:30:11 - 00:00:31:14
Nicole
It's incredible. Just like.

00:00:31:14 - 00:00:32:00
Biff
Being with.

00:00:32:00 - 00:00:55:00
Nicole
Him. I couldn't agree more. You like being around him? He is just warm and humble and has really fascinating stories to share and a wealth of experience. You know, with his perspectives in AI and the digital world, he is one of the members of our AMS think tank. And he has been since the beginning. So, that's he has a lot to share on that.

00:00:55:06 - 00:01:07:18
Nicole
But he has a really interesting early story to share just how he got into the, to be interested in technology. And so I think our listeners are really going to enjoy that.

00:01:07:20 - 00:01:27:12
Nicole
The first thing we want to start out with is just kind of your journey and how you've gotten here. And, and certainly we want to talk about your podcast and your contribution to Amazon's think tank. And we have a million things in between to discuss. So, do you want to just, kind of get started with kind of how you, you know, evolved?

00:01:27:13 - 00:01:48:00
Eric
Sure. So I remember a few years ago, it was probably around 2022. I have been following Amazon social media for some time because I was a montessori parent for some time, and I was very passionate about the work that they were doing. Not only with education, but just like their perspective on sharing about the future of education.

00:01:48:02 - 00:02:07:12
Eric
And so I see this post and it comes out saying, we're looking for speakers. Today's the last data summit. If you're interested in being a speaker at the upcoming Montessori event, please submit your application. And the majority of people that apply for these things are Montessori educators, Montessori administrators, or they have a history that's really well connected Montessori.

00:02:07:14 - 00:02:26:18
Eric
And I was like, what's the worst that could happen? And they were looking for a 62nd clip and I just shared my perspective, a montessori parent, but also as someone that was working in the tech sector at that time and saying, hey, as the world is getting more digitized, what Montessori is doing is what the future of education could be in this digital world.

00:02:26:20 - 00:02:50:02
Eric
Like we are building a more human centered future, and the digital tools that are here are there to extend that human experience. And so that was it. And I was like just that little concept. I just threw it out there to the universe. And I said, whatever happens from here happens. And then I got this very nice note on and like two weeks later, and it was really a mess and said, we smiled when we saw your submission.

00:02:50:03 - 00:02:52:10
Nicole
Oh, that's such a lovely compliment.

00:02:52:12 - 00:03:16:10
Eric
Oh, it's so nice. It did say if I was going to get, you know, a speaking over to but that but that was a really I was like wow okay. The message resonated but from there started this relationship with AMS. I was invited to speak in the 2023, I was part of the Montessori voices, and when I was doing that, that's also that was my very first stage that I have a chance to talk about this future that I believe is very possible.

00:03:16:10 - 00:03:34:04
Eric
Right. Is this human centered feature I just didn't know what to call it at that time. And so since that moment in time, I have not only been working with AMS, with innovation think tank, which we'll talk about a little bit more, as a consultant, as an advisor. But what that stage helped me do was launch my speaking career.

00:03:34:04 - 00:03:57:10
Eric
Now, which I've been now on this journey for the last two years and, and now have built this brand around the future human experience, which is also the title of the podcast that I lead. But it's also the title of my keynote. And so it's just been a wonderful experience over the last few years of just, you know, me on a on a probably Wednesday afternoon at 6:00, you know, just opened up my laptop and said, you know what?

00:03:57:10 - 00:03:58:23
Eric
Let me just put this out there and see what.

00:03:59:00 - 00:04:01:21
Biff
I had no idea. I thought you were a rockstar before that.

00:04:01:22 - 00:04:03:03
Nicole
Yeah, I know.

00:04:03:05 - 00:04:23:03
Eric
Now AMS gave me give me that first stage. You know, when you decide to to open yourself up like this, it's, it's mostly because people have asked you, right? They're like, hey, I can you share your perspective on this? Can you share perspective on this stuff? Which is great. And I have no problem from talking about the future of sports, the future technology, the future of leadership.

00:04:23:03 - 00:04:39:00
Eric
That's all cool. But it was always guided by some type of messaging or conference that was just falling into place. And and I was always the engineer that was geeky enough to also be on the stage. And they're like, well, let's just put Eric on there. This is the first time I said, this is what I want to share.

00:04:39:01 - 00:04:59:20
Eric
Does that fit in? And they responded. And that was really cool. And so that's why I also start believe in myself. I'm like, maybe I do have a message to share with the rest of the world and share my perspective. And and that's what you do as a speaker, right? You get to put yourself out there, be a little bit more vulnerable, but you get to share your perspective of the world, to connect with others and and bring them along on your journey.

00:04:59:20 - 00:05:09:06
Eric
And so I'm very grateful for AMS and the platform they've given me over the last couple of years. And that's why I'm excited to be with you all here today and just share a little bit more about the work that we're doing.

00:05:09:07 - 00:05:31:21
Nicole
Yeah, this is fantastic. And, you know, I just to have you, you know, being invited back over and over again, you're obviously contributing to, the, the, the think tank in the American Montessori Society. And I have I have a lot of questions for you about this idea of digital world. I don't know if we want to jump into that, but do you want to share your background in terms of technology and that sort of thing?

00:05:31:21 - 00:05:32:21
Nicole
Before I ask you all my.

00:05:32:21 - 00:05:53:07
Eric
Yeah, so burning question. Yeah, I hinted a little bit, I have an engineering background. I became passionate because, for engineering when I was a seventh grader. It still happens. At that time, I was living in Ecuador, and my parents are both from Ecuador. And, even though I was born and raised in Houston, we moved to Ecuador at a when I was 11 years old.

00:05:53:09 - 00:06:16:08
Eric
And so that experience of me moving to Ecuador not only changed my perspective of the world, but also I was trying to find my place in the world. You know, I didn't know. You know, I remember being grown up in Houston, being children of Ecuadorians, being first generation American. That's a very different lived experience. And then going to Ecuador, being the American, that's a completely different story.

00:06:16:11 - 00:06:16:21
Nicole
Right.

00:06:17:03 - 00:06:39:23
Eric
And, and I remember our, our school opened up its very first computer lab when I was in the seventh grade, and that was my inspiration. I was like, wow, okay, this is interesting. They had the internet, too. That was also transformational. Yeah. And after five minutes you would get connect to the internet. But but I remember just connecting with the rest of the world and thinking, okay, this is what the future could look like.

00:06:39:23 - 00:07:05:19
Eric
Like the world is much more connected then than these barriers that we just lifted up over over time. And I just didn't know what that career could look like. I didn't know if it was computer this or computer that. I just wanted to be somewhere, surrounded around computers. And I pursued an electrical engineering degree eventually. But because I was in the Gulf Coast area, I was mostly surrounded by oil and gas opportunities, which I truly enjoyed.

00:07:05:19 - 00:07:25:20
Eric
But it was also through those experiences that I started understanding the role technology got to play in the future of work, and technology was what we call today disrupting work. But what I was also noticing was that it was also making work safer, making work more predictable. I mean, I rather work in refinery in 2020 than working refinery 1980.

00:07:25:22 - 00:07:43:20
Eric
Simply because of the tools that we have today. And so I thought technology to be an extension of that. And and so it was in those lived experiences that I was like, wow, technology is very promising. Even though there's these conversations that even at that time, that technology was also being very disruptive and, and, and, and taking over our lives.

00:07:43:21 - 00:08:06:12
Eric
And, and eventually I got to work in the tech sector. And when I had a chance to work in the tech sector again, I was just encumbered by the titles that I had. Right? I didn't think about what I could do outside of that. And, as, as a job. And I remember my manager, after probably 18 months of me working as an engineer and the tech sector, he said, Eric, what do you want to go do?

00:08:06:14 - 00:08:20:19
Eric
Like what problem do you want to go solve? And I was like, man, this is this is a trick question. Like, like maybe he's going to try to figure out how to move me out of this team or move me how to company. Like there's something going on here. Even though he's a great guy, I trust him. He's a great family friend.

00:08:20:21 - 00:08:48:11
Eric
But the reason why he was asking me this was because every time after work, he would see me, you know, clock out, but I would go and do work in education. I'll go do work in communities. I was serving on boards. I was doing workshops in Spanish for digital literacy. I was doing workshops on the weekends for parents and talking about the importance of Stem and and the reason why he was asking me this was because he wanted to make sure he connected my my job with my work.

00:08:48:13 - 00:09:04:08
Eric
And what I've learned over the last few years is that there's a key difference between that, right? That we lived in this world of of LinkedIn and job titles and what have you. But there's a key difference between your job and your work. And your job is always going to be changing, especially in this digital era. But your work is much more meaningful.

00:09:04:08 - 00:09:12:04
Eric
Your work is something more deeper than that, that no matter how the jobs are changing, your work is pretty much why you get up to do what you do.

00:09:12:04 - 00:09:12:19
Nicole
Your drive.

00:09:12:20 - 00:09:28:12
Eric
Your drive. Yeah. And Westmore has this fantastic book called The Work where he talks about that. And that just stuck with me. And I remember thinking like, that's what I need to be focus. I need to focus on my work. And I started realizing at that at that time, early on in my engineering career, was that I need to.

00:09:28:14 - 00:09:52:08
Eric
My work is to help have these conversations around technology about being an extension of humanity, not a replacement of humanity, and how we design technology, how we bring technology to life. How do we bring technology to different communities, matters today in the 21st century. And I just want to be part of that journey. And so I had a ton of different job titles around over the 15 years, but my work stayed focused on that.

00:09:52:08 - 00:10:01:14
Eric
And and today, my job title is keynote speaker, advisor, facilitator. But I would say my work has not differed that much right over that moment from reminiscing.

00:10:01:14 - 00:10:24:20
Biff
We had this conversation with Sunil Gupta and, he talks about Dharma in the same way that you're talking about work. And he says that it's the reason you get up in the morning, you know, it is the it's your it's your calling and, and it and the he says that, that the, the challenge we have is not a lack of time.

00:10:24:20 - 00:10:51:17
Biff
It's a lack of energy. We don't manage our energy. And he said one of the reasons we don't manage our energy is that often we're focused on our job instead of our work. I find that whole thing interesting. I mean, I think, I do think that Montessori teachers, by and large, would say I do my work, you know, but they also would say, this is exhausting, right?

00:10:51:19 - 00:11:11:05
Biff
And so I think, we have to periodically really remember the humanizing element and why we're really doing the work that we doing, because I think that is energizing. When you remember what your what the connection is with your soul.

00:11:11:07 - 00:11:32:19
Eric
Yeah. And I saw that in my kids as being Montessori kids. And that was also my inspiration on submitting that video to AMS. A few years ago was I saw that in them. Right. That a big part of this education segment for some time. And, and I see the passion in teachers and I see the passion in educators, not only in the Montessori education community, but in the broader education community.

00:11:32:21 - 00:11:48:22
Eric
And and I saw them also when they would talk to me being in the in the work field, they'll be you know, there was a lot of conversations around Stem and saying, well, Eric, like, how do we prepare kids for Stem and why is Stem important? And and it was always tied to a six figure job like that.

00:11:48:22 - 00:11:56:16
Eric
That's kind of like that was always the pitch is like, if they could do these things, man, they're going to be rich, right? Like like that was the that's success.

00:11:56:16 - 00:11:57:22
Nicole
Exactly. That's. Yeah.

00:11:58:03 - 00:12:19:23
Eric
Right. And then and I remember having that conversation even before I was a parent. And I remember I was saying those things, I was like, this is why we need to do this, right? Because it's like fairy jobs are just right around the corner. And then when I became a parent, I was like, that's different. Like, like you want to authentically grow that human being, not that next, don't go wrong.

00:12:19:23 - 00:12:40:09
Eric
There's nothing wrong with the six figure jobs. But that is not how I see my kids. Right? And I saw that in Montessori. And right. I saw the Montessori and see the slight in our children that weren't encumbered by these, by these, by these limitations. It was encumbered by the planes of development. Right. But it's again, that's something I learned as a montessori parent.

00:12:40:11 - 00:12:51:14
Eric
And I was like, wow, there's something here that that we have been not looking at either in education, holistically or that we could take these learnings and bring this into the broader education conversation.

00:12:51:20 - 00:13:47:09
Biff
Well, to take the humanization to the most, I mean, I, I got goosebumps listening to you do your A card. There were you did a summary talk to the think tank you described Stanislav Petra's decision moment when he decided, let's not blow up the world, you know, and but I but when you said instead of going by the structure of the protocol, what he was trained to do and well trained to do, he for reasons that nobody can really understand, he paused and, and and then you said, you know, we still need Montessori education and the connection between those things that somehow the experience in growing up montessori is, is in,

00:13:47:14 - 00:13:55:14
Biff
in your view, anyway, helping to produce the willingness to pause, you know, and to remember who we really are.

00:13:55:16 - 00:14:17:13
Eric
Yeah. When we talk about a human centered feature, it's literally trying to put the humanity in the middle of all these conversations that we're trying to have. And so when we talk about this digital future, digital tools, we, we, we probably bring it from a perspective of either work or a particular headline or, or some type of impact that it had in, in a particular industry.

00:14:17:15 - 00:14:37:16
Eric
But we forget that the end of the day, it's it's the humans that are being impacted by these things. And so I think if we could I've been very encouraged and maybe assist me over the last few years that I've been having these conversations, even though I has been probably the most relevant term over the last 24 months, I feel like human is probably in the top five of that still, right?

00:14:37:18 - 00:15:02:16
Eric
Even though the AI term is probably up there. Human is not that far behind. And and and that gives me a lot of encouragement, at least that we're having or at least we're exploring to have those conversations. What is the role of humanity in this space? But I also try to reflect back on, you know, Petraeus moment happened because satellites were mis programed or incorrectly programed in the 1980s.

00:15:02:18 - 00:15:26:22
Eric
And and so the question is more like, okay, how are we developing these tools now? What I'd like to talk about pitch now, and the way I plant his story a little bit more is, I try to focus on what we've learned. I know a little bit more is that he was also recently engaged. And so I'm thinking about and again, this is me just assuming these moments for him.

00:15:26:22 - 00:15:44:22
Eric
But I'm thinking that when you have that moment, that human moment of asking someone else to spend the rest of their life with you, you you aspire to have a much better future than what you have today. And I'm wondering if that also influenced him to make that decision when he made it right. Like, like you were just in a different state when you're like, you're.

00:15:44:22 - 00:15:45:11
Biff
Maybe even.

00:15:45:11 - 00:15:48:02
Eric
Future a future, right? Exactly.

00:15:48:04 - 00:16:04:11
Nicole
Yeah. Some might say if he didn't make that decision, we we wouldn't have wouldn't be here. Right. But that's fascinating because you think about it and thinking about your idea about human centeredness. Right. It wasn't just him on his own anymore. Now he's thinking about his future with this other individual, which he's connected with, and he wants the best for.

00:16:04:11 - 00:16:27:09
Nicole
Right? Because I think a lot of times people are thinking about themselves, right? And then thinking about how they contribute and not how they contribute to the greater good of the greater community and whatnot. So, I just love that story. I think it's it relates so well. So along those lines, Beth, I think that maybe our listeners who don't know are not familiar with the Ames think tank.

00:16:27:09 - 00:16:34:11
Nicole
Maybe Eric can share a little bit about kind of what's the plan, the initiatives for the think tank and the work that you're doing right now, sir.

00:16:34:11 - 00:16:54:12
Eric
So, a couple of years ago, they started this initiative, called the fellows at the Innovation Fellowship think tank. And, and they deal with a think tank was to bring Minnesotans from around the world to go and talk about some of the challenges that Montessori has, but also, how do we help evolve Montessori going into into this future?

00:16:54:14 - 00:17:11:22
Eric
And, and I was very fortunate to be one of the advisors in year one and in year two, I'm the facilitator for the think tank. And so what's come out of that is, you know, not only this wonderful group of mine historians, but I always tell them it's one of the luckiest parts of the month that I get a chance to work with them is because I'm learning a ton from them.

00:17:12:00 - 00:17:28:03
Eric
But as it's going out there and and having those opportunities to authentically think, right, sometimes we kind of get together to say, okay, let's go and solve this problem. We have 60 minutes, right? Or 90 minutes, and let's go inside this and this good facilitator approach. That's not what this is about. This is about coming together, exploring these ideas.

00:17:28:05 - 00:17:52:08
Eric
One of the things we talked about this past year was like, what's the edge of your idea? Like, like, like if you could do this tomorrow, like, okay, what's the next iteration of that? What's the impact that you're making 2 or 3 generations from now? And that was really cool to hear that perspective. Right. And and so what's come out of that has come out several projects, even several white papers that Ames has supported these Montessori and to publish.

00:17:52:10 - 00:18:13:07
Eric
The conversation around digital literacy was sparked from the think tank, group that has continued going into year two. And we've talked about, the spiritual journey for our adult learners. We've talked about Follow the Child as well, and the different type of, work that they get to do and how they're doing. I mean, it's been a wonderful experience.

00:18:13:07 - 00:18:31:02
Eric
And so so it's given that only Montessori is an opportunity to share these ideas, but how they bring these ideas to a mass. So Ames could be a platform to elevate some of these insights and connect them, connect them with some of the folks that are doing already this work in the Montessori communities around the world. So, that's been a think tank over the last two years.

00:18:31:04 - 00:18:44:20
Eric
You'll see some of that come to life, at this time. And, and now it's it's been one of the most coolest things that I've had a chance to participate in and and be part of that Montessori journey for, for our educators.

00:18:44:22 - 00:18:46:20
Biff
Are you can continue with.

00:18:46:22 - 00:19:08:18
Eric
So my understanding is that we're they're sunsetting the model the year because they have so many things in the works. And so what they're probably going to do is they're going to support 2 or 3 of the projects to kind of just keep them going within Ames. At this point in time, I think that's the approach for, for year three, because there was a lot of interesting things have come out over the last couple of years.

00:19:08:18 - 00:19:12:09
Eric
And, and we want to make sure that we give breathing room for those, for those.

00:19:12:09 - 00:19:31:11
Biff
That's such a great model for the, for the society to have take it on, you know, because so often in a large group like the American Montessori Society of these islands, of people that are thinking but they they don't know about each other and they never get, you know, to benefit from each other. So thank you for your work in that.

00:19:31:11 - 00:19:33:10
Biff
That's really that's great.

00:19:33:12 - 00:19:36:14
Eric
Yeah. Thank you. You can learn more about, the M.S. website. Yeah.

00:19:36:16 - 00:19:49:11
Nicole
Can we talk about I. Yeah. Because I did write this down because I wanted to get your perspective on that and how you feel because you had said there's still human, you know, in there. So tell me a little bit more about what you mean by that.

00:19:49:12 - 00:20:13:21
Eric
Yeah. So I think how we use AI is, is fascinating. I think I have a very good friend of mine, Carla Johnson. I have her in an upcoming episode that, for the future human experience. And one of the things she talks about is that it's a curiosity companion, like like it's someone that. And I love how she brought this perspective is like, you know, she has the moments and she could make a few phone calls here and there, but who knows in what time zone those folks could be.

00:20:13:21 - 00:20:29:00
Eric
Who knows? If you know, I'm probably with my son at a soccer game or something like that. I'm not going to pick up the phone and say, hey, Carlos, let's jam on this idea. Yeah. Which you and I would love to do, but I'm not just available 24 seven. But you could throw that idea here and say, hey, I'm thinking about this.

00:20:29:05 - 00:20:48:11
Eric
Can you let's build on this. And that's what she's been using. And I thought that was fascinating. Right. And so what she's been exploring has been that idea that it's just there to expand your ideas a little bit more. And so I think that's facilitates. Yeah. Facilitate ideas a could it could, it could explore some new areas.

00:20:48:16 - 00:21:20:15
Eric
One example of this too, that I most recently use, I had this idea for four years now that, when we go around certain communities and we talk about the public education system, certain communities, how does communities represent, or, sorry, how those schools fit into socioeconomic status matters a lot. And what I was trying to look for was I was trying to look for indicators in those communities that could help us just empathize a little bit more with that lived experience inside those classrooms.

00:21:20:17 - 00:21:42:14
Eric
One example that was coming up with was how how close does a payday loan need to be to a public school to directly understand the impact? And, that that school and that community is living through because that payday loan exists there today. Right. And what's the opposite of that? The opposite of that as wealth advisory offices. Right.

00:21:42:14 - 00:21:55:21
Eric
Or banks? And so what I decided to do over the last few months is I just sat down with ChatGPT to like, I want to do this research with you. Like, let's get like, I have this idea because I see it. I am I the only one that sees this? Can we just put some of the things together?

00:21:55:23 - 00:22:19:00
Eric
And I spent a few hours with it doing this research. And what I found out was the, the if you have a payday loan, within one mile of a public school, more than likely that school has lower math scores and Loreen scores and it's peers. If it's more than a mile, as it goes further away, the math scores in the mean scores get higher.

00:22:19:02 - 00:22:38:05
Eric
Now, that's just that's not a correlation. That could be. There's other elements of that. But I thought that was a fascinating thing that again, I was curious about. I don't know if there's a paper in about I haven't published my these concepts, but I just wanted to kind of build that idea a little bit more. And where that goes from, from who I share that with, we'll see where it goes.

00:22:38:07 - 00:23:02:02
Eric
But that those conversations around inequality access is something that I've always cared about. I just didn't know how to put it sometimes on paper, or I didn't know someone else had that particular view. And so that's how I've used AI. So I see AI as a tool to go and explore ideas. That maybe I was interested in exploring before, but but now I can just go a little bit deeper, right?

00:23:02:02 - 00:23:12:18
Eric
Because I could have just googled it a few years ago. Said payday loans in schools. Has anyone done this feature? No. Okay, cool. Then I'm done. Instead, I decided just to go down a rabbit hole with it.

00:23:12:20 - 00:23:33:08
Nicole
Well, and it's still human driven, right. And so that's that's the concept behind it. I think people get kind of scared about ChatGPT, for example. But at the end of the day, and I love the example you gave because you were able to get that answer in seconds, probably. Right. And then that caused you then to look into it further and to expand that idea.

00:23:33:08 - 00:23:47:17
Nicole
Right. And to have that information at your fingertips is incredible. What do you see the role of AI in education, though? You know, I think about ChatGPT, I think about, you know, and, you know, students utilizing that moving forward. What do you think about that?

00:23:47:17 - 00:24:08:02
Eric
Sure. I'm I still think it's a tool. It's a tool. It's a tool there that that is there to extend, how we want to go and learn some different ideas. My, my son now is 11 years old. He's a fifth grader, believe it or not. Still, these fifth graders, when they come and ask us questions like some of these things are sometimes complex for me, for sort of complex of like, how did we do that?

00:24:08:04 - 00:24:25:07
Eric
Get into like, I don't mind using that as a tool. Say, hey, let's, let's jam on this, right? Now I still have control over that, at least at this time. I that's the decision we've made with with my wife is, hey, if we're going to go and access these tools, we're still working with him, to utilize them.

00:24:25:12 - 00:24:44:03
Eric
But some other parents have decided to just. Hey, you want to go and open up your own online business and sell your used toys? Use ChatGPT to figure out how to best market your toys that you want to go and share. That's really cool. And so, so there's some different experiences I've seen now how it happens inside the classroom.

00:24:44:03 - 00:25:13:21
Eric
That's a fascinating conversation. Because I think the other the other part of when we start peeling the onions, when we get access to new tools, and when you start asking ourselves, why did we do this in the first place? There's probably a fantastic reason why we were doing exams a certain way. Testing. Certain knowledges and how we were testing as well, which probably would have worked great a few years ago or a few decades ago, maybe now, because of the tools that we have, our disposal might just give us a different approach.

00:25:13:23 - 00:25:32:10
Eric
Just like I said, it's just like the example with the inequality conversation was an idea I had ten years ago or so when I was in Oakland, and I was just noticing these little spots, and I was like, And it just stuck with me and, and just and so that's why I'm wondering to like, I wonder how education can transform.

00:25:32:12 - 00:25:49:11
Eric
Because this is a tool. If we utilize it as a tool. Instead of, asking ourselves, how does this tool come in to, to fulfill what we've always known about education, what can this tool come in and, explore some ideas that we haven't explored about education?

00:25:49:12 - 00:25:52:19
Biff
Such a gentle way to talk about it.

00:25:52:22 - 00:25:54:23
Nicole
And I feel like, yeah, no.

00:25:55:01 - 00:25:55:17
Biff
I mean.

00:25:55:19 - 00:25:57:00
Nicole
Spokesperson for it.

00:25:57:04 - 00:26:19:02
Biff
No, I mean, the, the idea that we could, you know, reassess practices because the tools are different is obvious. You know, what seems should be obvious, despite the fact that there's so much investment in certain ways. But the way you put it is, as they say, I think, extremely gentle and, thoughtful.

00:26:19:07 - 00:26:41:02
Eric
It's really it doesn't matter. I mean, it's still scary. I mean, yeah, that that's, the part two of of of the space that, I truly enjoyed doing. I had this really fascinating, session a few months ago, and it was with graduate students and a graduate student. And in my Q&A, he said, he said, first of all, he said, Mr. Rodriguez, which is always awkward when you hear that.

00:26:41:04 - 00:26:42:17
Eric
I said, Mr.. Yes.

00:26:42:19 - 00:26:43:14
Nicole
We're too young for that.

00:26:43:17 - 00:27:07:15
Eric
And it's that in this era of constant questions, I feel we have more questions than we do answers. And I feel overwhelmed and I feel like I'm going to school. And every time, every week there's just more questions. And there are answers. And I remember looking at him and just telling him, like in this era, of of more questions than answers, that gap in between them, that's where this work is.

00:27:07:17 - 00:27:29:21
Eric
Like. And that's cool. Yeah. Right. If you just look at it like an overwhelmed sorry. If you just look at like this overwhelming pile that it's, it's it's never attainable, then then yes, that could be very overwhelming. Or you could look at it like, wow, that is the huge opportunity that we have today. Because if we did have all the answers to all the questions, then why is he going to grad school like, why are we doing what we're doing?

00:27:29:21 - 00:27:57:13
Eric
Right? You go there to go and explore these new ideas. I don't believe today. And just like I don't believe when I graduated college that even though we're all going the same degrees at the exact same time, and we're all going to be working in exactly very similar industries, we're all very different people, right? And at times, because we had those conversations early on and the education experience and saying we're just training them for that six figure job, we put everyone in some type of bucket.

00:27:57:15 - 00:28:25:06
Eric
And and I think today we have an opportunity to unlock a lot of those things. I just look at something as simple as, as a tool like YouTube. I mean, YouTube is a multi-billion dollar business that has created thousands, if not millions of jobs, but we would have never anticipated that, like 20 years. Like now I'm saying like this video, like the has cats and the streaming like that's going to create $1 billion industries.

00:28:25:06 - 00:28:32:05
Eric
Yes. And and and now it's it's the most viewed platform on the planet. More than TVs and.

00:28:32:05 - 00:28:33:19
Nicole
Cables and another tool.

00:28:33:21 - 00:28:37:06
Eric
And another tool. It's absolutely no tool to learn and to. Yeah.

00:28:37:11 - 00:28:41:05
Biff
How else would I know how to fix my dishwasher?

00:28:41:07 - 00:28:51:02
Eric
I do for my car, actually. Yeah. I'm like, how did you change this thing in a car? Or I could take it to a mechanic, which is great too. But there's time. There's all sorts of stuff right? So.

00:28:51:02 - 00:29:34:05
Biff
Well, it's interesting to think of, of, of AI as being sort of the, the medium that you're using to think, you know, instead of thinking of it as a repository of information, you know, because I think what, what people find threatening often about or educators find threatening about AI is that, you know, if you if you think of your job as, as a teacher to give information and then ask for that information back to prove that it's been gotten and kids see no reason to permanently store it in there because they have access, access to it whenever they need it.

00:29:34:07 - 00:29:47:04
Biff
It really does. It changes the sort of definition if I'm thinking about thinking and that's, you know, my, my palate is made of, of the information that's available to me.

00:29:47:06 - 00:30:10:23
Eric
Yeah. No. Yeah. 100%. And how we utilize a as a tool to expand what we already do. Yeah. I think I think matters a lot. It gives it gives me great, ideas at least if I'm going to explore. I mean, I have my standard keynote that I do, but if I want to shift certain things here, if I get certain feedback from certain, audiences here, I'll plant that seed.

00:30:10:23 - 00:30:26:00
Eric
I'm like, look, this story landed really well here. I'm thinking of doing this twist and turn. What am I missing here? What am I? And, you know, give me the top three options that you're thinking about, and then we'll explore it. Or I'll say, you know what? That doesn't make any sense to me. Or you went a completely off the rails.

00:30:26:02 - 00:30:42:10
Eric
And, and for me, that's been really interesting to see. Also the other thing too, that I think that I've always approached these, these type of tools is, I look at it from a, a lifelong learning opportunity. Right? Like, what can I go and learn from these things? I explore conferences that way too, right?

00:30:42:10 - 00:30:54:14
Eric
I come here to AMS. I love to hang out with everyone here too, but if I have not learned something by the time I leave on Saturday, something new that I didn't know about the world, then how did I utilize the last, you know, 48, 72 hours I've been here with.

00:30:54:14 - 00:31:22:05
Nicole
You all of your time, right? Yeah. Where do you see this whole digital world? How do you how do you see the digital world, contributing to Montessori? Because I think in traditional educational platforms, there's, tons of, you know, computers and digital opportunities to learn and whatnot. But Montessori traditionally isn't really like that. So where do you see kind of the bridge Montessori keeping up with this digital world, this ever evolving digital world?

00:31:22:07 - 00:31:43:15
Eric
Yeah. One of the things I shared when, when we met with the Innovation Think tank, was not to think about how we're going to change Montessori, but how do we make sure Montessori continues to change the world. Right. And and that, I think has resonated a lot with the group. And and that's always going to be my approach for, you know, if we're talking about different industries or different impacts or especially in the education segment, right?

00:31:43:17 - 00:32:02:00
Eric
It the education, the monster education continues to impact people's lives. It started off, of course, with with Doctor Maria montessori. And when she was doing this also, she got a lot of pushback, right. Like there's a lot of pushback on like, no, this is the direction of the future. This is the way it's going. This is into and this realization of the world.

00:32:02:02 - 00:32:32:03
Eric
Your children need to fit into this space. She didn't look at it that way, right? They were like, this is there's an economic benefit on training the children this way. Why do you not see that? Right. It's no different than how we're talking about it today. And and so I think that's a, that's, interesting reflection for us to always think about the root of, of, of why Doctor Montessori started to do what she was doing and how did she ground herself in the midst of all these things that just her, you know, you're not going the way that the rest of the world is going.

00:32:32:05 - 00:32:52:04
Eric
She saw something much more different. And that's where I think when we talk about where Montessori could go, I think we still need to root ourselves and ground ourselves in the Montessori practices. Right. And just look at these tools as, how can I help us connect, possibly even outside of the classroom? How does it help us connect with with parents better?

00:32:52:04 - 00:33:12:21
Eric
How does it make us connect with, the communities that we're serving better? Right. Doesn't always necessarily always need to be happening in the classroom. Or how can I, you know, have these students that and this is where Montessori is our fantastic. They know that every single year they have a completely new classroom, even though they might be the returning students that are growing into the classroom.

00:33:12:23 - 00:33:34:19
Eric
They're very different human beings. And so even that experience that they already know how they're going to go and explore these ideas with these children, you know, again, I or the digital tools could give them that experience. And just saying, okay, I have this group of students. What are some ideas that I could go and explore? There's also I ChatGPT, bot today.

00:33:34:19 - 00:33:36:06
Eric
That's a montessori bot.

00:33:36:08 - 00:33:38:11
Nicole
Oh, yeah. Wait, so tell us more.

00:33:38:11 - 00:33:39:19
Eric
Yeah, it's trained with,

00:33:39:21 - 00:33:40:08
Nicole
Did you know.

00:33:40:08 - 00:33:41:08
Eric
This book.

00:33:41:10 - 00:33:42:05
Biff
We should interview?

00:33:42:06 - 00:33:57:10
Eric
Yeah, that's that's actually a good question. I never thought about that. I'll send you all the link. I have it. Yeah. And and I found out about a couple of years ago, too. And so, yeah, some of the Montessori use it as this, as a tool. Right? It's like, hey, you know, I want to learn more about this.

00:33:57:10 - 00:33:58:11
Nicole
So progressive.

00:33:58:13 - 00:34:16:13
Eric
Absolutely. Yeah. It's like they trained it all with the Montessori. I don't know if it was the books or. But but anyways, the language model is around Maria montessori and and it's just again it's a curiosity companion like Carla Johnson said. With that said, what do y'all think I want to hear from you. I mean, y'all are ingrained in the Montessori communities.

00:34:16:13 - 00:34:19:09
Eric
How have you been relating to this world of AI?

00:34:19:11 - 00:34:50:19
Biff
I mean, I, I don't think most Montessori teachers are all that different from most other teachers that have been in the classroom a long time. You know, they're working. They they're so focused on their routines every day. And, I hear a lot of teachers that at least until recently, maybe, their primary reaction was, how do I make sure that my kids aren't aren't just doing work on a on I and, you know, when I, when they're doing a paper, they're just.

00:34:50:22 - 00:35:29:17
Biff
Yeah. Are there, what program should I run their work through to see whether they've lifted it from somewhere? You know, and, but that's why it's really exciting to think of it not as a repository of information, but as, as a, as a medium to exploit in order to do your own creation. And I, I, yeah, I mean, I, I think that that that's my main reaction is, is, I, I don't know how to shift the, the way we think.

00:35:29:17 - 00:35:56:21
Biff
Enough. I don't know how to to I know that there are lots of teachers that are starting to use AI to generate a lesson plan. You know, they know what they want to teach, but they can save huge amounts of time by getting ideas and then tweaking it from there. So I think maybe we're making the the transition into less fear and more possibility.

00:35:56:23 - 00:36:15:11
Eric
And if I could just build on that real quick. And one of your perspective to Nicole is, is, when we talk about the digital experience inside the classrooms, my experience when I went into the classroom as a seventh grader and the computer lab, it was a one site fit our solution like it was 30 computers or even a little bit less maybe.

00:36:15:11 - 00:36:36:23
Eric
And it was like 60 students, right? And we had to double up and sit in front. And then we were all doing literally the exact same thing at the same time. It was like, you're going to use the mouse, they're going to click and they're you're going to open up. Like it was very, prescriptive, I remember. And and then that's how I grew up, I grew up, you grew up in this prescriptive education approach.

00:36:37:01 - 00:36:54:07
Eric
And then the contrast as a montessori parent, I walk into my child's for the very first time, the first observation I have, and I think it's chaos. I'm like, what is happening? Like there's a chart about the book there. I like what's going on. And then after I do this a year after few years, as a year, I'm like, wow, this is the most beautiful chaos I've ever seen in my life.

00:36:54:07 - 00:37:15:22
Eric
Like, and that's what Montessori is, are super special. I think they know they don't see chaos, they see a dance. And so then when we talk about these digital tools that are now an extension of us, not necessarily replacement of this, right, like I was 30 years ago, how do I use it to be part of this dance versus, okay, I'm just going to put all my 30 kids in front of a screen and they're I'm going to teach Montessori.

00:37:16:03 - 00:37:17:09
Eric
Yeah, it becomes an extension.

00:37:17:09 - 00:37:27:13
Biff
I think that's why Montessori classrooms generally didn't, or Montessori schools generally didn't have computer labs. You know, they just put a few computers in the classroom and it became a tool.

00:37:27:13 - 00:37:44:00
Eric
Exactly. But today, if all three of us put our phones right there on the table and we open them and let's just assume we all have the exact same hardware, exact same device, but you all have completely different phones. Yeah, you know what I mean, right? Because they're personalized to you. And even though Biff might let me borrow his phone, I would have no idea how to navigate it.

00:37:44:00 - 00:37:52:01
Eric
Sure. Same thing if I let you. Probably. You have no idea, right? But I could get to my things in a very personalized way. And so that's where I think these tools could come into.

00:37:52:03 - 00:37:55:01
Biff
And we haven't done that on purpose. Correct. It's done.

00:37:55:03 - 00:37:55:20
Nicole
Yeah.

00:37:55:22 - 00:37:58:17
Biff
It's been a collaborative effort, a collaborative.

00:37:58:19 - 00:37:59:15
Eric
Absolutely.

00:37:59:17 - 00:38:16:02
Nicole
I actually I actually my, my perspective on this whole situation is very similar to yours, Eric, and that, you know, as a not the non Montessori and I was a montessori parent. I did not go to Montessori school when I was younger. But I think about how beautiful it is that there's this and what I love most about Montessori.

00:38:16:02 - 00:38:44:23
Nicole
And probably the listeners will kind of learn this because I say it all the time. But the multisensory approach to learning and it's the movement, it's the manipulatives, it's the experiential learning, and it's and it's and it's self-guided. Right. But then, you know, thinking about that and having that foundation and then having this ever evolving opportunity to introduce AI when it is using it as a tool, but so keeping that foundation right, you're not sitting in front of a computer.

00:38:45:03 - 00:39:04:13
Nicole
Your children are sitting in front of a computer for 6 to 8 hours a day learning. Right? So I don't see any harm in it, in having, you know, some kind of, you know, digital opportunity to learn in a montessori classroom, but then also keeping the integrity of the, of the philosophy. Does that make sense? Like really kind of bridging because it it doesn't.

00:39:04:15 - 00:39:27:11
Nicole
Montessori education in my opinion, doesn't allow for this route learning like you're explaining in that computer lab in Ecuador, sitting there just all doing the same. It's still, you know, learning what you want to learn or learning based on the guide and whatnot, but then also having that tool to be able to expand that learning. But then going back to the the nuts and bolts of the philosophy, which is that multi-sensory learning.

00:39:27:17 - 00:39:52:03
Nicole
So that's what I think is so beautiful about it. And now it is progressive for Montessori. Right. But I imagine and I'm going to shoot this over to you. But but I imagine Montessori education wants to keep keep up with the times. Right? They want to still maintain that integrity of the philosophy, but then also introduce these tools that the kids are going to learn down the road and probably need to utilize as they move on to secondary education and so forth.

00:39:52:04 - 00:40:30:13
Biff
Yeah. I mean, I think keeping our eyes on the direct aim of why we're in schools is really important. And when we when we keep our eyes on that, on the direct and then we're thinking about the kind of human being that that we want to be the result of this months or experience. And seems to me like one of the big differences between being a montessori teacher and being a conventional teacher is that conventional teachers, I think, usually know what what they would, what the product should look like.

00:40:30:15 - 00:40:54:16
Biff
You know, that's the sort of factory model idea. And I, Montessori teachers at our best, don't know how kids are going to turn out. You know, we don't know how the classroom is going to turn out. As you say, it's a new community. Every year I mean, you are building on a foundation of returning kids, which is the magic of a multi room, but it is a new community that has to get built every year.

00:40:54:16 - 00:41:35:08
Biff
And so that kind of unpredictability builds in some spontaneity. And and yeah, but I do, I do think it's sometimes one of the challenges that I think teachers have and schools have, frankly, is to keep an eye, keep your eye on where you're really headed. You know, what is our distinction? I mean, I worry sometimes that when independent Montessori schools decide that they want to compete with the other independent schools in the area, and they start, you know, de-emphasizing the things that I think are the are the central issues that make the Montessori experience.

00:41:35:08 - 00:41:38:23
Nicole
You know, the non-negotiables of it. All right. Yeah. And I mean, there are plenty.

00:41:38:23 - 00:41:42:01
Biff
Of places to go. Sure. If that's what you want for your kid.

00:41:42:01 - 00:42:00:02
Nicole
Yeah, it could be a slippery slope, I get it, but that's what I'm saying. It's if if there was a way to maintain that integrity of the philosophy and introduce, you know, this whole idea of this digitized world, what a beautiful model that would be right in it, just utilizing these tools, but maintaining that, I just I think that.

00:42:00:08 - 00:42:10:18
Biff
That's well, there were people in the early, you know, when the Apple two first came out, there were before people there were saying if Montessori had wanted a computer in the classroom, she would have told us about.

00:42:10:18 - 00:42:12:20
Nicole
Yeah, sure, I but I but.

00:42:12:23 - 00:42:39:21
Eric
No, I, I also am fascinated about this conversation around AI and automation is I remember when I was doing my the engineering, work that was doing in the refineries and, and the tech sector was what I was noticing was I was automating tasks that were repetitive. Right. And so we came up with this idea that if you do the exact same three is the exact same thing three times in a row, pretty much with the exact same type of approach, the more likely in time will be automated, right?

00:42:39:21 - 00:42:57:01
Eric
Technology becomes sophisticated enough that we could predict where, what movements or what you're going to get to try to do that. We could more likely automate that or measure that or what have you and and just free up time for that employee or for that individual for that group. We're now exposed, for example, an employee in a certain space.

00:42:57:02 - 00:43:16:19
Eric
So I always ask myself too, is that when we're talking about the different tools and how we utilize them today in whatever industry you're in, in education or in oil and gas or in the tech sector or or in even in retail, what are some things that our employees are doing constantly, repetitively, over and over and over that do not add value to their work, but that eventually could be automated.

00:43:16:20 - 00:43:31:22
Eric
You could free up that time for that person. And and at times we could look at it like, okay, no, that job is going away. No, no, no, the job is changing right now. That customer service provider probably gets to know the customer a little bit better than it did a few years ago. I love that.

00:43:31:22 - 00:43:32:20
Nicole
Yeah, actually.

00:43:32:20 - 00:43:33:20
Eric
Really curious to see that.

00:43:33:20 - 00:43:52:05
Nicole
I love that, and sorry to jump in, but I just got actually really excited about it. To your point earlier where you were saying that some Montessori teachers are utilizing AI to to create these lessons plans and it's more efficient and whatnot. And to think about that in just what Eric said is, you know, I'm sure they've done that lesson plan a million times on their own.

00:43:52:05 - 00:44:08:11
Nicole
Right? So it's been repetitive. But think about that, being able to do that lesson plan really quickly and then spend more time with your students or guiding your students or, or, you know, facilitating a lesson right? So it is it is it's efficient for the entire classroom, not just for the teacher. Yeah. Have you ever thought about that?

00:44:08:16 - 00:44:30:02
Biff
Well, I mean, I think maybe the most obvious example is scheduling. I mean, we have traditionally spent vast amounts of time on scheduling, and there's technology that can make that so much, so much easier and so much faster that, you know, there are people that are committed to their scheduling habits and you just.

00:44:30:04 - 00:44:30:13
Nicole
Go.

00:44:30:17 - 00:44:53:09
Biff
Give it up. But I think that's one I mean, I'll tell you, one of the things that I do is, for years I've been coaching sixth graders on doing a year long project where they pick anything that they want to, absolutely anything they're interested in. And I try to coach them in building an extended research paper.

00:44:53:11 - 00:45:20:17
Biff
And, you know, all the processes that they go through from notecards, you know, from finding resources to writing notecards and doing the whole the, the whole thing. And then, then they turn that into a paper and then they turn the paper into a public presentation and it's one of my favorite things to do. You know, I'm, it's a, I'm, it's like being a copy editor because I get, I have to learn about all these things that these kids are doing.

00:45:20:19 - 00:45:56:08
Biff
Some of them I love to learn about, and some of them I think, oh my God, you're really going to do this project on that? Shoot me now, you know? And, and so this year, for the first time, when I had, help a kid with structuring a project, for example, on fighter jets, I mean, I there's some interesting things to learn about fighter jets, but I didn't really want to dig and find books and, you know, ground myself in the evolution of, of military jets over the years.

00:45:56:10 - 00:46:19:00
Biff
But, artificial intelligence did that for me. And I was able to tell them at what level I wanted the information, and then I was able to get a structured approach that I could use to coach him in how he should go about finding out the things that, he needed to know about in order to write intelligently about fighter jets.

00:46:19:06 - 00:46:25:15
Nicole
And to make it a well-rounded project. Right? Yeah, right. And because of that, you had no idea about. Yeah.

00:46:25:17 - 00:46:25:23
Biff
Yeah.

00:46:26:03 - 00:46:48:11
Eric
Before know about the example you just gave was that you also embraced that dance approach. Right? You embrace the unpredictability of one. First, I'm asking every student, sixth grader, where do you want to go and work on? That's a fast first off, that's such an open ended question. But you embraced it, right. And it's not them going out there to I and saying, okay, I have this professor how this teacher is asking, what can you tell me?

00:46:48:11 - 00:47:09:22
Eric
What project do you recommend? No they're not they're coming up to you with their ideas that they care about. So I think that's one you're already you're already embracing the unpredictability. And then you're using the tools to extend, to figure out how to come into that unpredictability. That's really what's magical. And I think when we think about, again, our initial approach of how technology was used, we didn't want to embrace the unpredictability.

00:47:09:22 - 00:47:22:06
Eric
Technology has always been unpredictable, but we were like, no, no, no, wait, wait. We got line them all up in those 30 computers we offered. No, like, like, how do we use it to embrace this dance? We want to do it, students. That's the power.

00:47:22:06 - 00:47:25:19
Nicole
And to make it meaningful. Right? And we're not all doing the same sort of thing.

00:47:25:21 - 00:48:07:23
Biff
I'm wondering, it seems to me like in order to get people to really embrace inclusion, they have to veer away from familiar. Right. And there's a lot of support that you get from, you know, from staying with things that are familiar to you. What is it that that, what is it that motivates you in particular to, to, to want to to want to be more inclusive and to reach out?

00:48:08:01 - 00:48:39:15
Eric
It's a seventh grade kid. I always go back to that kid. I just remember having that moment and understanding what privilege felt like. I understand I understood the blessings that I had at that moment in time, and also understood what happened three years later, which is the whole economy and equity collapsed. And my family and I took a four American passports, which is probably what maybe less than 500 people could have done in the country at that time and left.

00:48:39:17 - 00:49:04:16
Eric
And I remember just thinking like, man, like, if you have an opportunity to do this, what are you doing with with these opportunities that are given to you? And, and I remember just thinking back at that moment and, and then also going to college and, and then reaching out to my friends in Ecuador and asking them, hey, if you come to college over here, they're going to give you this thing called a Pell Grant, and they'll give you money to go to school.

00:49:04:16 - 00:49:20:15
Eric
And then they're like, no, we need a visa to do that. Like, what's the visa like? Is that a credit card that you need? Like, no, it's a student visa. I had no idea. And then eventually I met my wife who went to a very different school that I went to in the inner cities of Houston, very close to, a payday loan.

00:49:20:17 - 00:49:42:15
Eric
And her lived experience in school is very different than mine. And I remember thinking, why? Why is it this way? And and I remember thinking also that technology could absolutely play a role to start closing those gaps. Technology has always been a tool there to extend our human condition, but also help us close gaps. But we have to be very intentional with that.

00:49:42:16 - 00:49:59:03
Eric
I use this example. When the ATM came out, when the ATM came out, people were freaking out for the ATM. They're like, no, do not put this on our branches. We have 20 employees in this branch. And and if you put this ATM that works 24 hours a day, we're going to disrupt the employees. And guess what?

00:49:59:03 - 00:50:16:07
Eric
Some branches decided not to use it. And only a handful of branches decided to put it that put these ATMs. And guess what? Out of the 20 employees that had to let go of several of them, and now they had this, this new tool that that was in there. But what they realized was that the cost of operating that branch was significantly lower now.

00:50:16:09 - 00:50:33:07
Eric
And now they could open up new branches and new communities that did not have access to financial services just a few years earlier. Right. That's what technology could do, right? Today we have 50% of the world population connected to the internet, just 50. We've been connected to the internet for, what, 30, 40 years already?

00:50:33:07 - 00:50:35:22
Nicole
That's fascinating. That is fascinating to me.

00:50:36:02 - 00:50:54:01
Eric
Exactly. Like there's a ton of work that still needs to happen. So just imagine when the rest of the population is connected to the internet, what could that unlock for all of us? Right. And so when we talk about inclusion, I look at it from that perspective like we have an opportunity to sit down today on a podcast, stream this to thousands of people around the world.

00:50:54:03 - 00:51:12:20
Eric
Right. That's using the tools that we have a chance to use. And they're empowering our listeners or relating to us, and they're going to do something different because of this message. That is an awesome and wonderful opportunity that we all have. And so that's when I look at inclusion from that perspective. It's like, what am I doing to sharing?

00:51:12:22 - 00:51:32:09
Eric
You know, not only my story, but my experiences, my insights to just bring the world just a little bit closer because we're not that far apart. We're not like, I saw it in Ecuador, I've seen it in the work that we get to do. We're not that far apart. And I think technology could be that tool that could bring us more together and create us, create a more inclusive and empathetic world as well.

00:51:32:11 - 00:51:54:11
Biff
But we're facing right now a backlash against everything you're talking about. You know, people who are I mean, there is there's a movement to limit inclusion, basically. Right. And do you see that as do you see that as a blip that you know, they're going to have their day and then.

00:51:54:13 - 00:52:14:12
Eric
I see it as a wonderful opportunity. I see it as as someone that worked in the diversity inclusion space for some time. I'll give you a little secret. People that do work in diversity inclusion don't want to do work in diversity inclusion. We do not want to work for the next 30, 40 years, 50 years in that space.

00:52:14:14 - 00:52:28:17
Eric
And we don't want to be the ones that say, you know, I did this work and and now my son is going to go into corporate America, and he's going to have the exact same role I had in diversity inclusion. We just don't we don't. Right. We want to do we want to disrupt ourselves. We authentic want to disrupt ourselves.

00:52:28:19 - 00:52:40:00
Eric
So when I see them, today's push back into that space and I see the companies rolling back some of their initiatives, I look at those initiatives that they really weren't authentically in place.

00:52:40:00 - 00:52:41:10
Nicole
And yet implemented.

00:52:41:10 - 00:52:56:03
Eric
Implemented. They were just there for the headlines. There were the there were the there were the cut the checklist, go and take some pictures with the communities and we'll see you in a few years. Type of approach. Right. Which we've seen. And the companies that are still with it, man, those are the ones I want to work with.

00:52:56:03 - 00:53:14:19
Eric
Those are the ones I know are doubling down. And so when I see even organizations or schools or something backing up a little bit, say, okay, fine, you know, let's remove that from here. I'm like, if you believe in it, don't remove it, stay with it, because there are folks that are still care about this deeply. And if anything, we're going to double down on it now.

00:53:14:21 - 00:53:23:19
Eric
And so that's where I think it's a huge opportunity. Is is the road is going to be constantly changing. That's cool. But your work is still your work. Right. And let's dive into that.

00:53:23:21 - 00:53:47:13
Nicole
And I it's only going to be impactful if it's done authentically and intentional. And and there's meaning behind it. Right. And so I do before we have to leave, I do want to make sure our listeners know about your podcast. Right. So because I think we can all agree that Eric has some really fantastic and really insightful perspectives to share with the world in this digital world.

00:53:47:13 - 00:53:52:15
Nicole
Right. And so can you tell our listeners about your podcast and what to expect from the podcast?

00:53:52:20 - 00:54:11:06
Eric
Well, first off, thank you so much for having me. Yes. The title of the podcast is The Future Human Experience. You can find it on your favorite platforms. It's also on video on YouTube as well. You could also find it on my, on my website. Eric J rodriguez.com. But yeah. So we're we're in the third season now.

00:54:11:08 - 00:54:34:17
Eric
We record out of out of Phoenix. We'll hopefully get it on the road this year. But but I try to bring folks from different areas, different industries that care about this world as a getting more digitized. How does it make us more human? And so I bring folks that have a different perspectives, either from, the diversity inclusion space to the retail space to the startup space education.

00:54:34:19 - 00:54:56:08
Eric
Just to talk about how is this digital future impacting their their work that they get to do, but also what what gets what promise do they see and the impact that they can make and these communities, going, going forward into this, into this digital future. So the future human experience, you could find it on your favorite platforms.

00:54:56:10 - 00:55:30:09
Biff
You know, I love I love Eric's story about, when he was, when he was brought in by his, his supervisor or his boss or whoever was and who was interested in the fact that he was so committed to, working within his community that he wondered whether there was some way that he could help bring the work that he was doing as an engineer into what looked to be Eric's real passion, and that that's when Eric really figured out what was what really drove him.

00:55:30:14 - 00:55:32:12
Biff
I just I love that story.

00:55:32:12 - 00:55:54:06
Nicole
Yeah. Seemingly that light bulb went off from there and that kind of directed the course of his career after that, which is fascinating. And I think also just his early childhood experiences, and how it relates to technology in the digital world relates to the the entire globe. And so I think he has some really interesting or he had some really interesting, fun things to share.

00:55:54:08 - 00:56:32:02
Biff
I know of the impact that he had on the, on the think tank. I mean, his facilitation was really helpful. I mean, people people loved working with him. And and so it's it was really fun to hear him talk about that, too. The, the other thing that I, I mean, I really had, I've sort of mind blowing moment when I started thinking the way he was, the way he was, the way he regards artificial intelligence as really a tool to think with as opposed to this place where you where there's a lot of information that you can gather easily, you know, and that.

00:56:32:02 - 00:56:52:23
Nicole
People are seemingly scared of. Right. And his perspective on AI and its, influence on education is really important. And I feel like it needs to get out there because I think I think exactly what he said, that it is used as a tool. It's a helpful tool, but it's not something taking over the world. Right. And so I think, I think our listeners are going to really enjoy that piece.

00:56:53:00 - 00:56:57:04
Biff
I completely agree with you, and I'm now looking forward to our next conversation. Nicole.

00:56:57:05 - 00:57:11:14
Nicole
Same here. We'd love to hear from you. If you have any thoughts on today's discussion or suggestions for future topics or guests, feel free to reach out at Human Potential at ams hq.org.

00:57:11:19 - 00:57:24:20
Biff
This podcast is produced by AMS, the American Montessori Society. However, the views that are expressed belong to us and to those of our guests. They do not represent those of the American Montessori Society.