Top Gun Maverick's Tommy Harper teams up with Vertical's hottest star, Kasey Esser for LOVE UNDER FIRE

On this Micro-Drama edition of Film Hustlers, we sit down with Hollywood heavyweight Tommy Harper, Producer behind Top Gun: Maverick, Mission: Impossible, Star Wars, and currently shooting Wednesday Season 3 in Ireland! and Kasey Esser, the "Brad Pitt of Verticals" with over 57 series and 500 MILLION views! to talk about the future of entertainment. 

We dive deep into how micro-dramas went from a niche trend to a multi-billion-dollar global industry, how Tommy is bringing blockbuster quality to mobile screens with his new tech platform Veyou, and Casey’s incredible journey from struggling actor to international vertical superstar. 
Plus, we get the exclusive inside scoop on their ambitious new action-packed vertical series, Love Under Fire, which brings LED screens and movie-quality stunts straight to your phone. 💥

Whether you're an actor, filmmaker, producer, or just love the hustle of the industry, you need to hear this. Grab your notepad! 📝

🎧 Click the link in our bio to watch the full episode now!
📲 And don't forget to check out Love Under Fire dropping April 7th on the new Veyou app (V-E-Y-O-U).

#FilmHustlers #VerticalDramas #Filmmaking #TommyHarper #KaseyEsser #HollywoodHustle #MicroDramas #TopGunMaverick #IndieFilm #ActorLife #FutureOfFilm

Transcript

Mark Roberts 0:00

All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Film Hustlers. Um this is a very special edition of Film Hustlers because we talk about vertical so much on the show. And um and to be honest, until until I spoke to our guests today, I really didn't know the extent of how big this really is. Because, you know, look, in Hollywood, I think we have a tendency to sort of, you know, just grab on to whatever the next thing, and then everyone's talking about verticals, everyone's doing them, everyone's um, you know, doing some sort of business with it. And when you ask them like, how does it work, they're like, I don't know, or just doing verticals. So it's Hollywood's like it's definitely taking us by storm. So uh so it's exciting to have uh our guests on today because they are actually involved in the business at the highest level and involved in verticals at the highest level, which is uh which is really cool. And I if you guys are at home, um yeah, get out your pencil and paper. This is gonna be a good one. So I want to introduce myself, Mark Roberts. I'm your host. I'm a filmmaker, been one for 30 years, mostly in the indie space. Now I make uh a multitude of Christmas movies, and uh hopefully um I'll keep doing that for a while. Uh but I've got uh Casey Esser here. Now, Casey is an American actor, he's an entrepreneur, he's a breakout star of vertical dramas. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Um I want to give a little bit more uh information on you because it's fascinating. You've started over 45 series, maybe that's more now.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Yeah, now we're at 57.

Mark Roberts 1:36

57 series, that's amazing. Come on, Google, get it together. Uh, 500 million views across all platforms. That's probably higher now, too. Yeah um so we're gonna get into like your whole story, but that's pretty that's pretty amazing. You're really, since Tommy's on the show, like you're really the Tom Cruise of verticals. I would think anyway. Like all them that's right. So then we got Tommy Harper. Now, Tommy Harper, uh, uniquely is um the most downloaded person on our show. Uh, did you know that?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Wow.

unknown 2:12

No.

Mark Roberts 2:12

Your episodes are the favorites, absolutely 100% the favorites. People love Tommy Harper and everything he does. And let me give you an idea of what he does. First of all, he's an executive producer, uh producer, um, an entrepreneur. He did uh Star Wars episode uh what is that, seven? Geez, two made two billion dollars, Alice in Wonderland, one billion dollars, Mission Impossible, Ghost Protocol, $694 million. I mean, I can go on and on. You know, the the the the movies I like the best, clearly Mission Impossible are my favorites, but I also love Star Trek. I love, love all the Star Trek movies. I'm so uh so enamored by them. So it's fun that you worked on those Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. Uh and then recently you're in Ireland currently working on uh the third season of Wednesday. Did I get it? Did I get all that right?

SPEAKER_01 3:04

You forgot your favorite one.

Mark Roberts 3:05

What's my favorite one?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Anne, Anne's gotta help you out. It's the airplanes.

Mark Roberts 3:10

Oh, what Top Gun Maverick? That is my favorite one. Oh, I love them all. I love them all. I can't believe I missed that one. Um, but uh, but you guys, like the power the powerhouses on in vertical and in motion pictures. Um also like what's just before we move on, like the amazing thing about you, Tommy, is you work, I mean, you're like the go-to guy. Tom Cruise, um, you know, all the all these amazing directors, producers, um, they all go to you to get these movies right. And uh that has that that must be an amazing feeling to know that you're the you're the person that uh JJ Abrams goes to, that Tom Cruise goes to, that Jerry Bruckheimer goes to. It's pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

It's great. I'm very thankful. You know, I like I love my partners. We've talked about this before. I mean, to just to be able to be in the same room with them and work with them for I mean, I'm here in Ireland uh working with Tim Burton, and I think we've known each other for close to 30 years, 20 27 years or something like that. So, and then Tom, I think I met Tom when I was uh it's been about 20, 22, 23 years. Same with JJ. So yeah, it's great.

Mark Roberts 4:25

That's amazing. So so now somehow between all of these movies and all this work you do, you found time to uh start a vertical company and uh Tom and Casey, um you guys started or are working uh with a company called VU. I uh I this is the first time I hear of it. Will you tell me about it?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yeah, so so um VU is is is my tech platform that we we spun up and we started. So basically it's a it's a um distribution platform for microdramas. And if you go to the app store next week, midweek, you will see it on there. And it's a place where you go, you click, you download, and we'll have uh uh licensed content and originals. And we have Love Under Fire, which we're extremely happy about, which we'll talk about, which is Casey's one that he produced and started and and financed, and and it's a distribution platform, and we have all kinds of tech stack underneath it with AI intelligence to help us inform the decision making and marketing and things like that. And then outside of that, I spun up a little studio called Tiny Verticals where we will go make originals as well for the platform.

Mark Roberts 5:34

That's amazing. Well, before before we get all into uh the new movie or the new series that you have, uh you know, the big question for a lot of our listeners is gonna be, you know, where how did you get started in verticals? And clearly it's been around a lot longer than anyone thinks. You know, because I did do a little bit of research, and Quibi started like they launched in 2018. And at between 218 and 220, there was clearly already the vertical world happening. Like the it was happening back then. Um maybe not at the level it's happening now, and maybe it was, I'm not sure. But tell me about how you got started in it and and uh and what led you to where you're at, which is like clearly the highest level of verticals.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yeah, well, you know, one of my main professional role models in life is Arnold Schwarzenegger. So I always was attracted to the idea of having multiple careers throughout my life. And when I moved to Los Angeles, you know, I came out to open a personal training studio. So my first career was in fitness. That studio is still in Culver City. Um, and then during the pandemic, it got to a point where I was like, okay, I told myself I would act someday. Let's the business is good, let's let's go into this, let's give it a shot. And, you know, I I became like I think most actors in the sense that I wasn't really doing anything at all. Uh, you know, a thing here and there. And then, you know, this was in early 2023. My agent and manager at the time were like, hey, we think you're really talented, but this, you know, this isn't happening, it's not the best time. You know, it was a bummer. Went back on the casting sites the next day.

Mark Roberts 7:13

And this is regular acting, right? You're talking about just like series and movies and that's yeah, just the normal stuff. Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah, yeah. And so the next day I went on the casting sites and I saw a listing for a mobisode, which was how they were built at the time in 2023 as mobile episodes. And it was werewolf and it was different. And I was like, Oh, okay, this is interesting. So I, you know, submitted, didn't hear anything. And then a friend of mine from acting class was like, Hey, I know this producer from this like real short company. Um, I think you'd be good for this like alpha werewolf character. I was like, Oh, I actually submitted, they didn't respond back, but I'll I'll message her. And they got back, they're like, Hey Casey, and we saw your resume, basically didn't watch your tape, but we'll go back and we'll watch it. And I had it booked that night. And that happened to be, you know, one of the first like viral series in the United States, and it gave a proof of concept that microdramas could work here. Wow. And from there it just became I was booked ever since.

Mark Roberts 8:05

But they see they see or or I've read that it was viral overnight. Is that true? Is that is that how it how it happened? Like they released it and it was just like it went crazy. People like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

And that was my first experience with something like that, and just coming from the business world and seeing the response that was happening in so many different countries, that was what really stuck out to me. Was it like a message from Australia one hour, a message from Mexico another hour. And it was just so ubiquitous. And in my mind, I was like, Casey, you gotta go full in on this. No matter how cheesy it may seem right now, how skeptical people are of it, there is something great that can come of this. And if you don't seize this opportunity, you're gonna regret it.

Mark Roberts 8:48

Wow. And I also uh I also read that you like, well, you just said it, but your agents kind of let you let you down, let you down. Like they they dropped you, right? And all this stuff came after that.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Directly after that.

Mark Roberts 9:03

Oh, so they don't get a commission.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Oh, absolutely not. I'll sometimes still send them clippings of stuff that comes out because I'm a little petty like that. They never respond.

Mark Roberts 9:13

Okay, you know, I gotta tell you, I love that. I love that that's the case because you know, sometimes they just kind of glom onto whatever is working. So congratulations. I'm sure you have new agents now.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Thank you. Yeah, I actually just uh signed with the manager in January.

Mark Roberts 9:27

That's terrific. So after that happened, after that first one, I mean, because you made a lot of them. So did it was it rapid fire after that? You're like they clearly they clearly had found someone that was working all over the world in all these different markets, right? So they so was it real shorts or was it was it continuous work with the same company or did you open it up? How did it work?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah, in the beginning it was mainly real short. I did my first two with them, and I remember they had a meeting with me after the first two that I did, and they said, you know, we are you getting hit up by Drama Box, Short TV? And I had never heard of these places, but they knew what was coming. And then all of a sudden, all these apps come in copying exactly what they're doing. And you know, my the first one that I did was called Fade It to My Forbidden Alpha, and then a one that I did a little bit after that with a different app was called the Forbidden Alpha. And you know, so it was just like they knew this was gonna happen, um, that people were gonna copy and copy that success and just try to get me for other ones. Um and I'm thankful that I let myself kind of explore that and work with a bunch of different companies and not lock myself into anything and you know, really get the benefit of meeting so many great people.

Mark Roberts 10:35

Yeah. And um and you also, through all of this uh popularity, you actually have visited other countries, like and you have fans in other countries. Was it the the Philippines or yeah, Philippines? How was that?

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah, that was like being a little bit like in an alternate reality, and just because you know, we we I saw like the parasocial response, but you know, you don't know if that's you know real. And but I in my mind I was like, I just I feel like we have to go over there and do something. So the woman who Holly Wolfgram who started Verticon, she had reached out to me earlier in the year and was like, hey, I'm doing this Verticon, do you want to be a part of it? I was like, You seem really nice, I haven't worked with you before. Organize something for me in the Philippines and let's see how that goes. And she did and put on the meet and greet. We did a speaking engagement, we did a vertical premiere, and you know, just seeing how the fans responded over there was really just again ignited my enthusiasm for giving this space all that I can, and that's why the series Love Under Fire takes place in the Philippines. It's a it's a it's a love letter to their country as well.

Mark Roberts 11:45

Oh, that is so cool. We'll get into Love Under Fire because this is the exciting thing. This is coming out soon. Um, in terms of the work in verticals and since you've been doing it for a while, is it odd to see how much action there is on this now? So many conversations about it and everyone's doing it, or does it just feel like it was always like that for you?

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Uh definitely wasn't always like that. I mean, someone asked the other day, like, what's been the biggest difference from a like a press perspective? And I think in the beginning, the press was pretty negative. Yeah, like it would you know portray me positively, but it was pretty disparaging about the space overall. Yeah, very skeptical. And now I see it being more like, oh, well, here's the opportunity here, here's where it's going. We have all these people that are interested in it. Let's see what we can do with it, let's make the most of it. And so that's been really encouraging to see.

Mark Roberts 12:37

So Love Under Fire is it's it feels different, right? It doesn't feel like my werewolf billionaire husband. It feels like an action movie. Like, you know, it feels like Mission Impossible. Is that what you guys did, Tommy? I mean, is that was that sort of the plan?

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Well, yeah, I mean, you know, listen, Casey wrote the script and and came up with the idea. And I think when we sat down and talked about it, because when we first met, I just wanted to know about the business in general. But when we sat down and talked, he he described it as romance in the stone. He he wanted he wanted to make a romantic kind of action piece uh and and kind of heighten the the level up. And we shot up against LED walls, we were using, you know, AI effects for enhancements, you know, in in like uh for scene replace, you know, for kind of like augmentation and explosions and things like that. So I think it was always just kind of the vision was to elevate this the platform and kind of like bring it to a new level. And I think that's what he did. And he when he wrote the script, and I was, of course, read it and I was shocked about the price tag about what what we could go do it for. But that's the beauty of it, because you know, he went and found a grill airplane to shoot in. You know, we we had stunts on the set, we had motorcycles, we had all this stuff, and yeah, you wanted to just elevate it and make it kind of really fun.

Mark Roberts 13:57

He's not gonna give you back your daughter unless you have meat.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Jesus Christ, are you a pop star or you're Sherlock Holmes? It's interesting because the technology is changing so fast. We had this moment in post where we were kind of like a hamster wheel chasing ourselves because you know the AI AI models were coming out so fast and we're trying to do like background replacements. So I think people are gonna like it. They're gonna they're gonna feel like it's it's propulsive, it's got action, it's got comedy, it's got romance, it's got all the things that you want in a in a in a regular series film, and it's just set in the vertical space so it's quicker and sharper.

Mark Roberts 14:30

That's awesome. And uh, Casey, you wrote, produced, starred in this and raised the money. Raised the money. I mean, you did it all. Um, but we also talked a little bit about using these uh these screens, these LED screens to shoot on. Had you done that before? No. No. So how did that help production?

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Well, I mean, I think one of the things that uh Tommy and I connected on right away was you know, with my life in this phase of my career, I want to do action movies. That's that's my passion.

Mark Roberts 15:01

Back to your Arnold Schwarzenegger.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, exactly. And to me, with my track record in the vertical space, it made sense to go out and make an action vertical because I actually think it sets up well for the space as is. Fast paced, cliffhangers, fun to watch. And you know, so when I was thinking about how to do one, I was like, how can we make the stunts look like they're from this huge big budget movie, but just on vertical because no one's really tried that yet. And I knew, you know, budget-wise, we couldn't actually jump out of planes and do motorcycle jumps and all these things. But, you know, when you find that the budget is limited, you find yourself getting pretty creative. Yeah. And you find that you can actually do a lot of things that you thought were going to be a lot more expensive, but actually, you know, are within range. That's cool. You know, we just we made it work. We had a great stunt coordinator and a great team that went above and beyond in putting this together.

Mark Roberts 15:54

And how how much of it was shot on L LED?

SPEAKER_00 15:58

So we did four days there. We did one day in a private jet set, we did one day at a house, uh, and then four days at the LED stage. So quite a bit.

Mark Roberts 16:08

Yeah. And and the total total 10-day shoot? Six days. Total total six days. Wow, that's amazing. Uh six days. Well, how many pages a day? Uh I guess a couple pages a day, no.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Uh, ten to fifteen. Wow. Yeah.

Mark Roberts 16:23

I mean, you could teach some Hollywood people some lessons with that one. That's that's that's pretty amazing. And are you feeling like you want to do more of this? Is this uh is it, you know, is this kind of where you want to live? How'd it feel to do something that was so uh well rounded with like action and comedy and romance? Like, is is that is there more of this?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Oh, I loved it. Yeah. Yeah, I can't wait to do the next one. Cannot wait.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

We got some we got some big stuff planned, Mark. We got some action that's gonna like throw you out of your seat.

Mark Roberts 16:53

Is that um so when when is that coming? How is that lined up?

SPEAKER_01 16:57

I've got I'm a scrappy startup, right? So I've got like each each thing we do, we kind of raise independently, and or we have film funds. So we have a we have a title that's uh I don't want to give away too much, but I I would just say it's gonna be probably pretty mind-blowing when we pull it off. But it's gonna be fast pace, action, adventure, non-stop. So we're raising the money for it now. We hope to shoot it over the summer, and um it's gonna, it's it's gonna be pretty, pretty cool. Something spectacular.

Mark Roberts 17:28

That's awesome. And um I have I have a question about IP. How does the I how does IP work? I mean, do you look for stuff with IP? Are you creating your own? Like what's the what's the plan with that?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, I mean, the the thing is is like when I started this, so I I came about the space where I where I was uh I was in London uh prepping a movie last year and scouting in Spain. I was on a train or even a Financial Times article, and I came across the micro drama space about China being couple four billion last year, seven billion this year, and just the curve going straight up. And I just dove into and wanted to know more about it. For the business side, I just kind of like spent a couple weeks really diving into it and went back to LA, emailed Casey. Two days later, we sat down for a couple hours and just talked. He just told me all about the business, and that's when I learned about Love Under Fire, and and we invested in it and and learned a lot. And I just wanted to kind of understand it and watch it and be helpful when I could be, and just let Casey do his thing. But immediately when I knew this was something I wanted to like get into on the business side and raise some money for the tech, I started developing kind of own my own IP inside. And I put a limit, I said, you know what, I'm gonna do three to five a day for the next three months. And I did. I ended up writing like just random pictures, I send them to Casey, and be like just one after another. I'd just be like sending pictures. So we have like over a hundred probably you know different stories IP. And what we do is we what I like about it because the studios, like I'm talking to some of the studio partners I work with, is you can incubate IP here, right? You can try things out. So for 150 to 225,000 or 250, you can go make a uh or love under fire is cheaper than that. You go make a series and see if the IP is working, right? And it's a test case. And I talk about this, like it's hard to even get a treatment out of a out of a writer for that price when you're doing a big movie for a studio. So the IPs, you could do two things. You can incubate it in-house, test it, or you can find web novels and test, take those books that are working and create uh a microseries out of it. Um so there's a few different ways you can do it.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Wow. That's pretty cool. And Mark, I also want to say that like with the vertical space, you know, up until this title, the platforms commission all the work, right? There's not a market of people making series on spec like this. So this to what Tommy said, this is a risk, an experiment, a test to understand to what you said in the beginning to answer the question of well, how does this business actually work? What are the numbers? What's the waterfall? What what goes on? And that will inform then how we make future series and do investments and things like that. So just wanted to point that out. That's not a model that's has a precedent.

Mark Roberts 20:20

Yeah, it's kind of you're creating it.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

And it's still kind of not a model either, really. It's interesting, you know, it's there's if there's more people doing it, but you know, it's like for VU, it's like we we're not making we we didn't raise $100 million in making all the content inside the tech stack. We're we're funding it outside the tech stack, which is totally opposite than all the companies that are out there, which is cool, and I like it because it could be you could go make make one and put it on our platform if you meet the standards. Casey can go make another one. Any any producer can come to us. And I was just at South by Southwest two weeks ago, and I had half a dozen people come to me after I talked and was like, I have one, and different, different people, people that are very, very experienced on TikTok, people that are on YouTube, people that are uh writers, actors, whatever, and they're all like developing stuff for us now and some really good stuff, I think.

Mark Roberts 21:09

So is this this is completely from another side of it, but is the goal uh at any point to take a vertical, have it be successful? I mean, is there any other life for it?

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Yeah, yeah. So we what we what we're doing of VU is we're shooting everything, you know, uh horizontal. So so and then cutting framing for vertical. So it's kind of like if I was shooting a feature and I was shooting like tracker or Star Wars remissions, like where we shoot an IMAX, but you're framing for normal, you know, most theaters. We're doing the same thing here. So we always have the media to turn it over to if Tubi calls or Roku calls and goes, Oh my god, that series is really cool. Do you actually have the media where I can put it on? Horizontal, yeah, we do, and we just have to edit it and do it. So we have the media for that. I think the other thing is when you talked about IP, is like some of the studio partners I'm talking to is they have big franchises, but they have character number five or six that they're like, hmm, people seem to like that character. Maybe we can maybe we can develop a story within a vertical space and test it out and then see how it goes, and then maybe it becomes a TV series. So I think there's a lot at play here that you know when Casey says and you ask, like, where is this business like it's a it's a model that it's very much day by day, what I it's like a tech startup, it's changing quick and rapid. And if you don't keep up to it, it's gonna pass you right by. So that's why you just have to kind of just have to get in and be relentless with it and just do it. And and what I love is the fast-paced nature of it. We can be sitting here having a conversation today, and we could be shooting in two months or less, you know, by the time you write a script, and then it's on the platform 12 weeks later.

Mark Roberts 23:00

Yeah, that's pretty cool. Um, yeah, I read that like um Lifetime. I think Tay Diggs is doing a movie uh for Lifetime, and they're also doing a vertical connected to it, I guess, to move traffic towards their movie. They need that. They don't have that many viewers, so that that's gonna help a lot. And what about brands? How do brands fit, you know, there's all this conversation about brands these days and television and film, and you know, their brands have studios. Is do brands uh play into what you're up to?

SPEAKER_01 23:29

I mean, for VU, and I'll let you jump in, Casey, but we we have a few brand partners that we're working with right now. Like I have a uh an agency or two that we're we're talking to. I've got um uh my agency, you know, uh WME brand department working. So we're actively writing scripts for for a brand for a couple series right now. And it's really what we do is the way it's been working with them is is we get introduced and they're like, well, we'd love our brand to do this. And we go, actually we have a story that's centered around this. What if we populate it with what you want and then and then see how that works? And I would say the process right now has been really, really good because if you think about it, the price point we talked about, right? So now you go shoot a vertical and a story that's putting the brand into the place where they want it to be put in front and center, and they're getting at least an hour, hour and 20 minutes of content to cut their media, have their creative department cut media and then put it on social. And that's kind of a no-brainer, in my opinion. You can go make a commercial for 500 to a million at the cheapest, probably. Or you can pay for let's say premium vertical for 200, 220, and you get over an hour of brand advertisement. That's that's pretty good spend, I would say.

Mark Roberts 24:54

That's great. Are you using brands in the same way?

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Uh we will. I mean, exactly what what Tommy said. It's just it just makes complete sense. Yeah. And it's something that's going to be a major development in the next year within the vertical space. Are these companies doing completely branded series?

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Yeah, we have one that just happened last night, so Casey doesn't know about this, but we have a we have a romantic comedy, you know, um series that we're we're gonna do, and a brand approached me, the men's men's, you know, um clothing brand and was like, yeah, we would like to fund three quarters of it and you know put our brand, you know, in in it. And we're not forcing it upon you, but you know, in great, you know, put it into the story, maybe wears it or what have you. And it's it's like a good play. It's like, like I said, it's you can do it in a very, very uh organic way that just feels like it's it's it should be there.

Mark Roberts 25:44

Yeah, it's like yeah, it's pretty remarkable. And so uh economics-wise, and I don't know that you want, I don't know if you know or if you want to disclose it, but how does it like so if a brand pays for the whole thing, like where does the where does the majority of the money come from? Is it from clicks? Is it from people signing up or paying for it? Like, where does the majority of the of the money come from the market?

SPEAKER_01 26:11

There's a few, there's a few plays. You could do pay paid ads, right? So, so ad tier where where you have paid ads. Um how the business is set up right now are micropayments and or you pay pay weekly or monthly subscription for the series, or you can go on and pay as you go. Um, at VU, we're doing something different at the beginning, partly because of a business and a build-out, is we're gonna you can buy the series uh and watch the whole thing. And we we actually have a distribution to deal with Google as well, and we're doing the same thing with for Love Under Fire on Google TV, where you can buy the pain. It's like going to the movies. You buy a ticket, you watch the whole entire uh uh series. And I think for brands, you know, they get eyeballs, right? So they get extra traction. Uh and then um, but there's a lot of different kind of revenue streams for the actual payments of the of the series themselves.

Mark Roberts 27:04

So then the revenue stream is not so it's an so it's not so that it doesn't even I guess paid ads is when people click on it on YouTube, but you're not gonna be on YouTube that way, are you?

SPEAKER_01 27:14

So you usually market on like um uh uh meta and or tick tock, and then you you you can watch for a certain amount, and then that drives your traffic. You got a pay, you hit a paywall, and then that traffic drives you to the app, and then you pay, and then you start watching, and then you can a certain point once you have traction on your app, you can get paid ads, and then you can watch ad-based tiered as you go as well. So there's so a few different channels of it.

Mark Roberts 27:40

What's like what's coming next for you? Like, what do you see as as the next step for you?

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Well, you know, the goal right now is to get Love Under Fire out, yeah, make it a success, and then take the success from that, and then just go full on into a slate and continue to produce independently and make stories that I want to make. I'll still act in the vertical space on the talent side, um, but I will be going more into traditional media on that side, but I want to go full on into vertical producing.

Mark Roberts 28:09

Yeah, that's exciting. Um, so the platform launches on April 7th.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Yeah.

Mark Roberts 28:16

And people can see courage, no, not courage. Why do I want to call it Courage Under Fire?

unknown 28:22

Courage.

Mark Roberts 28:24

That's a good name. That's a good name. Love Under Fire. Love Under Fire is a lot better name. Um and people can go to the platform on April 7th and check it out. I'm gonna show, can I show the can I run the trailer on this uh on this interview? Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

We just as Kate as Casey was pulling in your parking lot. I hit him up on we just launched our social channels for VU. So we're we're starting to pump it out there. Uh um starting to do media. So we're we're starting to pump it out there. Our our distribution deal with Google will come out about the same time as well. And then um Casey will talk to you about our play in the Philippines, and we have distribution channels there. But yeah, on April 7th, you'll be able to download the app, you'll be able to go to VU uh and and watch the the trailer. We're gonna have some cool behind-the-scenes stuff that we're gonna we're gonna do uh for promotion as well. And then I think like like Casey said, I mean, this, you know, listen, he's got a great co-star in this as well, who's fantastic and and and this thing has a lot of legs and it can go, you can go into a sequel with it. I think there's more to come in this space, a lot more. And um and then we're also launching in the Philippines in May, I think, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Yeah, May 5th.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Casey.

Mark Roberts 29:39

So is there anyone else you want to shout out from the from the movie you did from uh from the vertical you did?

SPEAKER_00 29:45

And uh well, obviously, in addition to Tommy's invaluable help with the post, you know, I have to shout out the director Timothy Hoffman, who was also the digital artist or AI artist or whatever you want to call it, who just put in hours upon hours perfecting these sequences, and then the primary editor, Chris Kinsman. I mean, they just they went all in, and it wasn't like I was able to pay them a bunch of extra money through this post process. They were just like, you know, we want to make this as good as it can. That's cool. Because we know this is gonna lead to something, and you know, I I could go on and on about them, but they're they're incredible.

Mark Roberts 30:22

That's cool. You seem really proud of it. I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Yeah, no, no, it's it's a great, I I have to tell you, just from like uh looking in, and it's like you know, it's like the the the those guys like worked countless hours, like Casey said, and just were I mean, I was over, I'm in Dublin now, so I'm ahead. So it's like it was like I was like, wait a minute, I'm barely sleeping like it, Chris. How are you sleeping? Like they were just like non-stop. And and you know, between Maurice and Roberta, who are the producers on it, they were like relentless as well, making it to making it perfection. And I think also like this is I really want this to succeed for for all of them, for Casey, but you know, for the investors and an independent, you know, any you've done independent projects a lot, you know. Anytime you do an independent project, you just want to pay it back and make sure everybody is like reaps the rewards for it. The fans love it, the investors you know, get their money back so we can do another one. And I also think like this is a really good one for the fan base as well, because it doesn't have your usual tropes that are that go along in the in the micro drama space sometimes that that are you know um you know you you you get slapped or you get this or that. You know, this is a this is a big swing uh uh from Casey. And I think I think people will like it and I think they'll they'll love the action of it. It's ambitious and it's gonna be a blast.

Mark Roberts 31:43

It sounds it sounds like um the the you know definitely a big swing, but you're really proud of it too. You know, you're proud of what you did here. Why should people go check it out?

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Like, well, I mean, uh look, if you're if you're a fan of of action, you're a fan of action romance, you know, if you if you grew up on the 80s, 90s type of action movies, you know, this is also a you know an an ode to those. And you know, look, there's so much going on in the world right now, and we need movies that we can just escape into and have fun with. And you know, that's kind of the charm of the vertical space as a whole. But to what Tommy said, you know, we've removed some of the you know darker elements that are typically present in some of these stories. And it's just a feel-good, it's just a feel-good movie.

Mark Roberts 32:32

Feel good action movie with uh the Tom Cruise of verticals, Casey. Um, before I I need to ask you another thing. Is does anyone in the world connect you to your female uh co-stars? Do they ever say, like, oh, are you guys dating? Is there a real romance there?

SPEAKER_00 32:48

I mean, I will say, you know, with these with these shows, the main couple's chemistry is is a big selling point. That's that's a big piece. Um, but I I I personally don't play into any of that.

Mark Roberts 33:01

So people want to, you know, just like in the 80s, you want to see those people get together. You know, you'd see a movie and you'd see two people together, you'd be like, you wish they got together, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Well, I I did get together with one. I I do have somebody that wait a minute. Vanessa Von Schwartz, shout out.

Mark Roberts 33:15

Oh man, all right, here we go. Well, that's a whole other show. Yeah. Um if people wanted to go back and check out one of your many, many verticals that you've done, the series, which one are you most proud of? Or can you at least name one that you really stands out for you as you know, something that that hit a lot of uh people and people loved it and you loved it?

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Yeah, well, I mean the first one that I did will always have like a special place because you know people still talk about that one faded to my forbidden alpha. Um and then the other one I would say because I got to play not a villain, but like uh an anti-hero type. It was loosely based, loosely based off of face-off. Oh, cool. It was called the Love Switch, where me and another very popular male lead, you know, swapped bodies of identities, and you know, we sort of went at each other. And it was just different, it was fun, and that it was it was a risk of a story, and you know, with this with this format, that's gonna continue to happen. The genres will continue to expand, and we'll need people who are forward-thinking and willing to take the risk and put it out there. What's that called? Uh that title, uh-huh. Uh The Love Switch.

Mark Roberts 34:31

The Love Switch. Okay, good. I'm gonna check out the Love Switch.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah, love switch on short stuff.

Mark Roberts 34:35

And do you guys what who who does the music for these things?

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Oh, well, you know, hey, I'm right into it. I'm like the beginning step. So we're we're you know, we we on the one that we're making now, so we just wrapped one two weeks ago and it's in post right now. And we'll we'll do a combination of originals, and I've got composers that will kind of do some of the music for this stuff. And and who did it for Love Under Fire? It's probably a combo of of the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

I mean, transparently, there's a lot of AI services now that can generate some great music if you you know give it the right score type music. Yeah, and it was incredible how it turned out. And it was all Tim and Chris. We didn't use any composer, any outside service. Really?

Mark Roberts 35:15

Yeah, I have I I'd be remiss if I didn't say you guys should check out extreme music.com. Extremeusic.com, best in the business at uh needle drops, and they even have Han Zimmer as a uh as a composer on the he's I think I think he's a partner with Russ Emanuel, but they are the sponsors of our show. So I'm gonna mention them because I use them on all my movies. Tommy, you gotta use them on Top Gun in those films. You must. Um sure I have, yeah. Why did they get back?

SPEAKER_01 35:42

We used Extreme. Um maybe they can help fund a vertical. We got we got one that's uh extrememusic.com. You know what?

Mark Roberts 35:56

Let's go to Russ Emmanuel. Hey Russ, if you're listening, we want you for a vertical, it'll be fantastic. We'll put you and the he actually he could be a villain in the in the movie. Um but but extreemusic.com is a wonderful service if you like. If you if you're in a pinch and you need like a certain kind of song, you just punch it right into their website. They use AI and they give you a million choices. Yeah, it's really cool. In fact, my wife and I were watching a commercial the other night, and one of the songs I put in my documentary that I love was on the commercial, so it's not an exclusive, you know, people can use it, uh every different uh different formats, commercials, uh movies, everything, uh television shows, verticals. Uh, but extreme music for all your music needs. Um, but anyway, I mean, look, I think we covered a lot of ground here. I'd love to have you back on and talk about like your full career. Last thing I'll say is that um, yeah, you've had you you kind of lived the dream, right? You came to Hollywood, things didn't quite work out the way you expected, and probably at the lowest moment you end up breaking through, coming out of the ground like a Phoenix, right? Like into uh starring in verticals and being you know the main guy in this field. So what advice do you have for other actors that are coming into town, filmmakers, producers, entrepreneurs? You know, what what what advice do you have for those guys?

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Well, I think, and you know, maybe to myself, to a degree in the beginning, you know, when you go into acting, you know, you want to do these big movies, you want to do these artistic movies, you want to do all these things. And, you know, in the beginning in this space, you know, I know there were some that were like, you know, this is beneath me, I don't want to do it. And I understand we didn't really know much about the space, but my advice would just be to embrace every single job. Give it your 100% effort, treat everyone well on set, and it will lead to somewhere good. That's great. Um beats just sitting on your couch.

Mark Roberts 37:53

Yeah, that's good advice. And if people want to produce Top Gun Maverick or uh Mission Impossible, what advice do you have?

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Man, uh well, hey, we've talked about this. You know, it's like I love what I'm what I do, and I love every day. I was on set last week and I was walking through a dark stage and tripped over something and walking around the corners and ran into Tim and I was like, we're chatting. I walked away and I was like, yeah, I just love making things. I love doing what I do, and I think what you need to do in this business is even harder to do it now because it's just we're at a we're at a place where it's hard to get things made. But I don't, I think the beauty of it is you got a you've got a movie, you know, camera in your pocket, your your phone. So if you want to direct, grab it and go. If you want to produce, get the friend who's the director and the actor and go do it. I think you just gotta go do it, put your head down. It doesn't happen overnight. I mean, we've known each other a long time, man, and you you know how much you know you've been apart out of your away from your family, I have for many months, and you wake up at those 3 a.m. call times and you go to work and you just have to really grind it out. But at the end of the day, it pays off, you know, and you just gotta keep working hard and stay dedicated. You gotta follow through, and you just gotta keep keep attacking it, and it will work out.

Mark Roberts 39:13

Yeah, it's a hustle, man. It's a hustle, but you guys are the best in the biz. Uh and how did you guys meet? Last thing how did you guys meet?

SPEAKER_01 39:21

I emailed him.

Mark Roberts 39:22

Is that right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

How did you get his email? I went on IMDB Pro and got his email. Sorry, Casey.

Mark Roberts 39:29

Uh you gotta do what you gotta do. You're a producer.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Yeah. He said, hey, let's chat.

Mark Roberts 39:37

Love under fire, April 7th. Uh, Tommy and Casey team up for this amazing uh action-packed love story. Um check it out, let us know what you think in the comments.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Go to VU.com, sign up, and then go to the app store, download it, and watch it.

Mark Roberts 39:51

V U.com how do you spell that just so people get it? V-E-Y-O-U. Okay, we'll put it, we'll put it in the uh in the comments. Also, yeah, like and subscribe. And if you want to hear more about Tommy's full career, there is a podcast that we did back in the day, the first one, the first time he was on, and we covered from zero to top gun. So if you're interested, top gun map, sorry. If you're interested, it's an amazing podcast. Tell you everything you need to know about Tommy and his career and what right to left he took. And it's really fascinating, so check it out. But dude, thank you guys so much for being on. This is like the first time we ever did a remote from from Ireland. And you're in Ireland doing what?

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Wednesday, 10 and 3.

Mark Roberts 40:37

Can't wait, man. Let's go!

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Gotta get it out.

Mark Roberts 40:41

Alright, well, that's exciting. Uh, Casey, congratulations. This is super exciting. Tommy, congratulations on all your successes. And uh hey, we'll see you guys next time on Build Up Twist.