The Ugly Side - Control, Manipulation, and Gossip

We all have an ugly side and the ability to hurt other people. In this episode, I talk about seeing the ugly side of things, including myself. I also discuss how toxic traits of control, manipulation, and gossip have no place in a healthy church. I hope this episode shines some light in the darkness. Thanks for listening. 

Transcript

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Okay, well, here we are again. Welcome back to the Dissatisfied Podcast. I am Rochelle Smith. I really appreciate you listening. I hope you've been enjoying the episodes. So let's get to it, like we usually do. So when I was a teenager, I have this memory that I think about quite often actually. And one day I was walking out in our yard. We had this big, beautiful country home with a big yard. And I was down by the lake walking, just enjoying the day. Nice day, you know, enjoying the walk by myself. And I look down and I see a really cute little field mouse lying in the grass. And it was obviously injured because it wasn't running away from me. So I bent down and I picked it up. Yes, I know how disgusting. I wouldn't do that today, knowing what I know, but I was young, didn't think anything of it. And so I picked it up and I was kind of petting it and wondering what was wrong with it. And then all of a sudden it moved in my hand and it flipped. So I saw the other side of it. And the other side of its face was basically eaten off. And it was awful and shocking. And I screamed and I threw it and it landed in the lake. And I didn't mean to throw it in the lake, but you know, it was gonna die anyway. But I still felt bad because I see the little mouse's legs and paws are just, you know, moving back and forth fast because it was drowning. But again, it was gonna die anyway. But maybe I have a little bit of guilt. I don't know. But this is just a a memory that I think about from time to time. Why? Probably because of the shock of it. Maybe because I still feel bad that I threw the mouse in the lake, even though it was gonna die anyway. But I think mostly it had to do with, you know, here I am thinking that this little thing is so cute, and I'm just enjoying the cuteness of this mouse in my hand, and then nope, it's a nightmare on the other side. It's terrifying. And I started thinking about this, and I thought, you know, that's kind of like life sometimes, where we think something is good, we think we know what it looks like, but then we discover another side of the story that's pretty ugly and frightening. And there's times in my life where I have seen the ugly side of things, or of people, or even of myself. And one of those times was seeing a whole different side to people after my dad died. And it wasn't a good side, it was an ugly side. And apparently, what I've learned over the years is death can bring out the worst in people, unfortunately. Not all the time, but a lot of times it does. So at 20 years old, I learned a whole lot about people in that season. And I wasn't just dealing with the grief of losing my dad to suicide. I was also dealing with all of this dysfunction that rose to the surface that was exposed through the death of my dad, you know, in these different relationships. And some of those relationships ended, and some of those relationships just changed dramatically. So I want to give you an example of the ugly side during that time. This is just one example. So when we were planning my dad's visitation at the funeral home, you know, you go in and you pick out the casket, and there's other details that you have to plan. And it was my sister, my brother, myself, and then my dad's mom, who was also with us. But this was when, you know, back in the day they used to put like a big flower arrangement in the open part of the casket. Maybe they still do that. I don't think they do. But it was popular to do that. So this big flower arrangement in the open part of the casket, and there would be big ribbons coming out from it with words like grandpa, aunt, brother, mother, all those things. You could put anything on it you wanted. So the funeral guy asked if we wanted any words on the ribbons. And we all talked and we decided, you know what, we don't want any words on them because we felt like my dad was so many things to so many people. And there weren't enough ribbons to describe him, right? We we liked that idea that, you know what, we don't want to reduce him to just these few things. So we decided not to put any words on the ribbons. And my dad's mom thought we should put words on the ribbons. But we stuck with what we wanted because the planning and decisions were ours to make. That's what we decided. Well, we get to the funeral home, the day of the visitation, and we see my dad in the casket, right? It's jarring, it's awful, it's sad. But then I see the ribbons. You know, the ribbons that weren't supposed to have any words on them. But they did have words. And the words were son, brother, uncle, friend. Those four words were on the four ribbons. So there was not a ribbon that said dad, there was not a ribbon that said father. So let's let's revisit this real quick, okay? Firstly, we made it very clear that we didn't want any words on the ribbons. Secondly, it was now obvious that our grandma somehow talked the funeral guy into doing what she wanted. Thirdly, they intentionally left off the words dad or father, you know, because we didn't want any words. So what was their thought process? Okay, well, they don't want the words, but we do. Now I want you to try to wrap your mind around this with me for a minute. What could someone possibly be thinking that does something like that? What are they thinking? Well, number one, they're thinking about themselves. And it reveals issues with control and manipulation to get what they want. So this was an ugly side that I saw during that time. Now I could have just accepted this blatant overstep and snub. But you know what? I was 20 years old, my dad had just killed himself, life as I knew it was gone, was over, and I just wasn't in the mood. Wasn't in the mood. So I did what needed to be done, and I approached the funeral guy, you know, the one who we had made it clear to that we did not want words on the ribbons, and I asked him about it. And he said, Well, your grandma called me back and asked for those. And so I said, Do you have scissors? And his eyes got really wide because he knew. He knew he screwed up. So he went and he got me scissors, and I went over to my dad's casket and I cut those ribbons off. And then what happened is after the funeral, so after we step out of the church, we were literally right outside the church, and one of my dad's sisters approached me and she said, We know what you did. And I looked at her and I said, No, I know what you guys did. And listen, there's forgiveness and healing in all of this. I don't share that story because I'm still enraged by it or still harbor bad feelings about it. It was a very long time ago. I've allowed the Lord to work through all sorts of things in my heart, and so I don't hold any bitterness towards them. But I'll tell you what, I do still shake my head at things. And I know there's people that think, well, why, you know, you should have just let it go. There's lots of people that would have just left those ribbons. They wouldn't have confronted it or done anything to rock the boat, or should I say, rock the casket. But that's not, that's not how God built me. And you know what, there's times that it's okay and even necessary to confront things. And that was one of those times. So, you know, all of us have encountered strange, stressful, overwhelming situations that bring emotion. And you know what, those are the times that reveal what's really inside of us. And it reveals what's inside of the people around you, which can be scary sometimes. Because when we're being pressed and crushed, that's when things start coming out. And sometimes it's pretty ugly. Now, there's healthy emotions that are normal, right? Grief, sadness, anger, feeling overwhelmed, confusion. Those are all normal things, and it's okay to feel those things in stressful times. But what's not okay is when what comes out of you hurts other people. That's not okay. And all of us at some point have hurt someone else by our words and our actions, because we're none of us are perfect. We're all sinful, fallen human beings. So we hurt people sometimes. But as Christians, here's the important part it's important to recognize when we've hurt somebody, to have some self-awareness, to examine our own hearts, because you know what? If we don't do that on a regular basis, it will leave an open door for pride to come in. And that's when we start making excuses for our bad behavior. And then what happens is we start to become numb to the things that we're doing or saying that hurt people. And ultimately, all that comes back around on ourselves and we hurt and damage ourselves. But it's not easy. It's not easy to admit our own failures and sins and faults. But you know what? If you want to grow in Christ, if I want to grow in Christ and become a true vessel for the Holy Spirit, then recognizing our own weaknesses is a vital in our Christian walk. But something else I've noticed is I don't think that the church spends too much time talking about sin these days. And I get it, that's not a fun message to give. That's not a fun subject to talk about, but it's really important because we don't want there to be an ugly side that is never dealt with. I had to face the ugly side of some things a couple years ago when I left the church I'd been at for over seven years. And I talked a little bit about that last week of my experience in leaving that church, but I wanted to expand on this today because I believe there are some very destructive things happening in the church across the board. Lots of churches, not just one here and one there. And this is across denominations. But I think we've got some issues we need to address as the body of Christ. And if you're wondering what the point of me even talking about this stuff is, it's because I love the Lord, number one, and I desire to see the body of Christ healthy and functioning in a way God designed it to. I want to see Christians encouraging one another and spurring each other on in the faith instead of competing, backbiting, and tearing each other down all the time. But unfortunately, there is this ugly side of gossip, control, and manipulation that seems to be very prevalent in many church environments. And those things are destroyers. They will destroy how the body of Christ is really supposed to function. And by no means am I saying that all churches are like this. So it's not all churches, but unfortunately, it's a lot of churches. Our Americanized system of church tends to cultivate environments of control, which then opens the door to manipulation, and then that can quickly cross the line into spiritual abuse. And what happens is when we insert ourselves into those environments unknowingly, we'll start to mold ourselves to it. Because, you know, those things are not glaringly obvious at first. It's sneaky and it sneaks up on you, and then you don't even realize that you're becoming like those things. You start to become somebody else. All of a sudden you're participating in toxic things like gossip and manipulation. And it happens in a very covert way, especially when those behaviors are modeled and trickle down from the top. But we have to remember you start to become like what you're surrounded with. You will start to become like the things and people that you surround yourself with. So let's talk about gossip because it's a pretty big issue across the board, and we've all done it. It's a very easy thing to get sucked into sometimes. But I want to talk about the distinction between what is gossip and what's not. So there's times to appropriately share about a situation that needs to be talked about to people who need to know. That's not gossip if you need to share about a situation. But it is gossip if you're sharing about a situation to people who don't need to know. Not everybody needs to know somebody else's business. And then there's times where, you know, we get caught up in just talking poorly about someone for no reason at all. Talking bad about people. And I 100% believe that repeatedly gossiping will open a door to the enemy. Gossip is a sin. The Bible says it's a sin. And I'm not, I'm not going to sit here and list all the Bible verses. You can Google that. What does the Bible say about gossip? But let me give you an example. So if you were talking to a friend and you said, Oh, did you hear so-and-so got divorced? And then you have a conversation with your friend and you're saying things like, oh, that's sad, I wonder what happened, I feel so bad for the kids, and that's the extent of how you're talking about it. That's not gossip. It's okay to talk about things that are happening. But if you were to go on and start to make assumptions and start saying things like, Well, I wouldn't doubt if he cheated on her because, you know, she really let herself go the last couple years. And I heard he was working out at the gym and that he was being a big flirt, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That is gossip. That's when you start talking about things that are not verified and it's pure speculation. That is spreading gossip. It's also gossip when someone has told you something in confidence and you break their trust and you go blab it to anyone who will listen. But the worst kind of gossip, in my opinion, is when someone intentionally speaks negatively about another person to change your view of that person because there's a narrative that they need others to believe. That's also called manipulation. And this is one of the things that my eyes were open to about a year before we left that church. And I just began to observe this and I saw how destructive this gossip was, how frequently it was happening, and how people were being hurt by it. And then I also started to notice the workings of control and manipulation that to me seemed to be embedded at the top. And so I started to become aware of how I personally was being affected by those things. So I had this revelation. Hold on a second, I don't even feel like myself anymore. I felt like I had completely lost who I was, who God created me to be. And I'll tell you what, it is a crazy experience when the Lord starts to peel back the layers of things that you were blind to, and all of a sudden, He's shining a light on those things. And you're realizing, oh shoot, there's another side to this. And it's not pretty, it's ugly. Another example I want to give you of something that is really harmful within some churches is this. So for years we had witnessed one of our friends who was a leader use social media posts to be passive aggressive towards people that he had issues with. And it was so clearly about certain individuals that there were a few times where my husband and I told him, we were like, hey, you know they're gonna know that's about them. And he didn't care. I guess he thought he was doing the Lord's work by doing that stuff. I don't know, but that's not God. That's not what God would have anybody do. This was a pastor, a leader, doing that to people in his own congregation. That's not okay by a long shot. In fact, that is a form of spiritual abuse when you're using your place of authority and using scripture and religious language to attack other people. And, you know, I look back at that time and I really wish I had confronted it more firmly, but I didn't. So it's no surprise that my husband and I became the target of some of those passive aggressive posts. And I started to notice it a few months before we left. So when we met with them to tell them that we were leaving, we also asked him directly about the posts that were about us that we thought were about us. And his response was, Do you think they were about you? And we said, Yes. And then he said, Well, you have to remember I'm fighting demons. So he admitted to posting things on social media that were camouflaged as something spiritual and wise when it was an attack against us. And then he won he said it's demons that he's fighting. Okay, so he might be fighting demons, but not in the way he thinks he is. Not in the way he thinks he is. And unfortunately, a lot of people use their platforms to attack other people in that way. And you know what? There were no conversations that he had with us about anything that he had an issue with. Nope, he just took to social media to attack. And when confronted, he didn't feel bad about it. He just found a way to justify it. And this was the same leader who said that we were divorcing the family when we left. He said, You're divorcing the family. Also the same one who told people in a Sunday morning meeting before church that our family had left and that we were listening to demons. I share a little bit about that last week. But again, those are all manipulation tactics, and it's trying to control a narrative. But I'm not sure what narrative because our only narrative was that we felt God was telling us to leave, that our time there was done. But remember, people who struggle with control and manipulation become paranoid. So they start to view any kind of disagreement or someone leaving or confrontation, anything like that. They view it as an attack. And then you'll notice it's always because of demons. Again, very toxic, very unhealthy. So there was just a clear pattern of using platforms, whether social media or you know, even the pulpit, where posts and messages were directed towards individuals. We saw it numerous times. And there were others who saw it as well. And over the years, I know that there were people who tried to confront some of these things and bring some accountability to it. But again, those people who were trying to bring that accountability were made out to be listening to demons, or they have a Jezebel spirit, or they're deceived. Again, all manipulation tactics, and it's very cult like. Nod and go along with it without ever seeking God in it or praying about it or even going to the other person who had been talked about, right, to get their side to verify information. Never did that. Another example of a high control, manipulative church environment is when other people are telling you what your gifts and callings are. Now, you'll be made to feel like you're being championed and encouraged, but it's in the things they want from you. So it might seem like you're walking in your calling, but many times it's an illusion. Because it's other people putting those things on you, and you start to believe it because you trust them. And then your true self, who God created you to be, is being masked by a false identity that's being put on you by other people. That's why it gets so confusing. Because we go into these environments and we feel good and we feel noticed and we build relationships and friendships, we feel loved. So it's very easy to not guard our hearts like God tells us to do. And we open ourselves up to being more influenced by the voices of people rather than God Himself. And our ears will bend to what others say instead of bending to what God is saying. And you will lose yourself. And unfortunately, the longer you're in those types of relationships and atmospheres, the harder it becomes to find yourself again. And isn't that a goal of the enemy? Is to steal your identity, to steal who God truly created you to be. So during that time of leading up to our exit, God was just showing me all of these different things. But I want to be clear here, I did not escape God showing me my own ugly side. And when you begin to truly be convicted, it feels as if you're being just turned inside out. Because you you have to face your own weaknesses. And you have to face the reality that you have the ability to be wicked. So when it came to the gossip stuff, you know, there were times where I would not participate in it, and I would try to steer it in a different direction sometimes. Or I remember a couple of times where I actually brought it to them and told them I thought it was an issue, but I didn't get much of a response. But what the Lord was showing me was that there were plenty of times that I was part of it. And then there were times where I just jumped on the bandwagon of believing certain things about somebody. Even sometimes it would be a friend, but I would believe these things without ever having a conversation with the person. I would just believe whatever somebody was telling me. So God was just working on me through this whole process, and I gotta tell you, it was painful. It's not fun to be confronted with your own weaknesses and sin. And it wasn't just the gossip part of it. There were lots of things God was showing me about myself. You know, why was I so intimidated by the people around me? Why was I so influenced by their opinions? What caused me to change who I was to fit in, to feel like I belonged? These were all things God was asking me and showing me. And it was like I had to peel things off of myself. In fact, there's still times that I feel like I have to do that. I still have to recalibrate and reset myself with the Lord. Maybe you need to reset. You know, what's going on in your life? What's going on in your church, your friend group, or whatever? Are there things that are unhealthy? Is there anything in yourself that needs to be dealt with? You know, for me, part of dealing with the church stuff and the things that God was showing me, part of part of that process was me asking for forgiveness from two people specifically. And asking for forgiveness is not an easy thing to do, but it's necessary in our Christian walk. So through this process of God showing me all these things about myself, I just I had realized I hurt people. One of the people I reached out to was someone who had left church quite a while before we did, but this person was slandered and targeted in a really vicious way. And I fell for it. I fell for the manipulation, I fell for the gossip, and then I participated in that narrative. So through all the revealing, the Lord was really shining a light on this forgiveness part, me needing to ask for forgiveness from two people. And so I texted one of them one day and I asked if we could meet for coffee. And she actually said that she would be more comfortable with a phone call, which I understood because you know what? She had been so hurt by so many people, and one of those people was me. So we set up a time for a phone call, and when she answered, I just basically went right into it. And I said, I just wanted to ask for your forgiveness, and I apologized for the ways that I had hurt her. You know, there was there was emotion, and thankfully there was forgiveness. And even better than that, in this situation, there was restoration of that friendship, which is so good of the Lord. And we've both talked about it since, and we're like, how awesome is it that we were able to pick up right where we left off. It doesn't feel like there was anything bad that had happened. But I found out later on that she and her husband were actually very skeptical of my intentions, which is understandable again. And I guess she had asked her husband, she said, How will I even know if this conversation is going to be sincere? And he told her, he said, You'll know if the first thing she does is ask for forgiveness. And that's what I did. That's basically the first thing I did in that phone call. The other person I needed to ask forgiveness from was another friend who I had spent quite a bit of time with over the years, and she actually ended up leaving the church and not really even telling anybody. But she had slowly been kind of left out of some things and kind of shunned, I guess you could say, like mean girl stuff. And I didn't, I guess I didn't outrightly do that, but I went along with it to a degree, which was so wrong. So I ended up meeting with her as well and asking for forgiveness, and thankfully she she forgave me. You know, we should really make asking for forgiveness great again in the church, in all of our lives. We should actually make it something that we do often. Because here's the thing we've got this one life, and I don't want to waste any more time. I don't want to waste time with the fakery and the masks and the pretending and the striving, the trying to fit into places that we don't belong. Because those things are exhausting. And frankly, I'm too old for that. I'm just too old for it. I don't have time for it. And I think we're living in a time where we need to get real, real fast, and start calling out the BS in the church. And I guess I see that happening to a degree, but we need more of it. There's way too many churches that function more like a cult, and it's dangerous and it's damaging the body of Christ. So I want to leave you with a list comparing signs of an unhealthy church versus a healthy church. And by no means is this an exhaustive list, but it's a place to start. Number one, in an unhealthy environment, you will find that there is no accountability. There's no accountability for the leader or the leaders. In a healthy environment, there will be a clear structure set up for accountability, including outside people, people that are not in their own circles to bring accountability. Number two, in an unhealthy environment, you will find that there's no tolerance for criticism or questions. But in a healthy environment, questions and critiques are welcomed and even invited because they are open to change and improvement. Number three, in an unhealthy environment, there will be a lack of financial disclosures regarding the budget. In a healthy environment, they'll be open. They're going to talk about it. They're going to give you detailed disclosures of the budget and where the money goes. Number four, in an unhealthy environment, you will find that people are criticized or spoken badly about when they leave. A healthy environment will champion people when they when their time is done. They will champion them and bless them. Number five, an unhealthy environment, you will see spiritual abuse in the form of control and manipulation. A healthy environment, it will look like this. When there's an offense or an issue that needs to be addressed, it will be handled with humility, care, and respect. There will be no room for passive aggressiveness in a healthy environment. Number six, an unhealthy environment, there will be recurrent and frequent gossip. We talked about this one. But in a healthy environment, gossip is not prevalent, and it will be an environment where you see more building up of others than tearing down. Number seven, you will feel like you can never live up to unspoken expectations in an unhealthy environment. But a healthy environment, you will feel valued and appreciated, and there will be no pressure to conform to expectations. Again, this is by no means an exhaustive list of signs of a toxic environment, but it's a place to start. And you know, you could do some research on your own to see what are some of the traits, what are some of the signs of an unhealthy church environment. So as we close this out, I just want to remind you that there is only one opinion that should matter. There's only one voice you should be bending your ear to, and that's the Lord God Himself. Because you're never going to find your true identity, you're never going to find your true worth without him. It's not going to come from anything else. It only comes from God. And how do we find those things out? Well, when you find it out by spending time with him, by praying, by being in his word. That's when you'll start to have the revelation of who you are in Christ. And that's the moment when you will start living in a way that is truly who God called you to be. And there's no better thing, there's no better thing than that. And that's my hope for all of us. So thanks again for listening. I hope you tune in next week.