Encountering Jezebel: When Satan Hijacks Spiritual Language and Blind Loyalty

In this episode, I share my first encounter with the spirit of Jezebel. I also share what might be an unpopular opinion: that certain spiritual language can actually be harmful. And then I discuss how blind loyalty can fuel toxic church environments, and how easily we can get sucked into defending unhealthy leaders.

Transcript

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Hey everybody, welcome back to the Dissatisfied Podcast. I am Rochelle Smith. Thanks for tuning in. There's something going on with my voice today, so bear with me. I'm not sure what's going on, but if I sound funny, maybe I'm getting sick, hopefully not, maybe it's just allergies. I don't know. So if you have been listening to this podcast, then you've probably heard the few episodes that I've done on church stuff. So I had an episode where I talked about manipulation and control in the church. I talked about um in an episode I talked about the spirit of Jezebel and Leviathan and just stuff like that. I think there's three or four episodes that talk about those things because we experienced that type of thing in the last church that we were in. And I also share in those episodes some of the stuff that happened when we left that's just kind of crazy. So if you have not listened to those, go back and look for those titles. I don't have them in front of me, but you'll know by the title. So one thing that I realized though is that I forgot to talk about what my first real encounter was with that spirit, the spirit of Jezebel, and how that encounter is what actually caused me to start researching and learning about the so-called Jezebel spirit. So this was about 12 years ago, I think, I'm guessing, around 12 years ago. And we were attending a church at that time, and we had been there for a couple of years, and the pastor, who we absolutely loved, decided that he was gonna leave and he moved away to start a ministry, which is awesome. And he's still doing that ministry, doing a great job. So, of course, the church had to look for a new pastor, and they found one. I forget how long it took them, but they found one, and along with that pastor came his wife, which, you know, that happens when you hire a pastor for a church, their spouse comes with them if they're married. And it did not take too long to realize that there were some issues, that there was something a little bit off with this situation and with this woman. And I want to tell you about a couple of encounters that I had with her. So one time when I don't even know when this was, it was early on when they when they had just arrived. So she had invited me over to sit and hang out with her at her house and just sit and chat. So we sat at the kitchen table and she started talking, and she didn't stop talking. And this went on for probably close to three hours. I might have said 20 words the entire time, and I'm not exaggerating. And it wasn't just that she was nonstop talking, it was that I had no idea what she was talking about. So I would try to follow her stories and the stuff that she was saying, but I couldn't connect the dots. And so I would sit there and I thought, is it me? Is there something wrong with me? Am I going crazy? But nope. There was just no coherence to her words. And I remember sitting there and just tuning it out because it was, it was enough to drive someone nuts, trying to follow along with somebody that's making no sense. It literally sounded like somebody you would come across in a straitjacket in a crazy house. But anyway, I sat there tuning it out, and I tried to think of ways that I could interrupt her so I could say, hey, I've got to go. So I just kept trying to tune her out to think of ways to get out of there. So as I was sitting there, I realized, oh, what is this? I started to feel this pressure in my head, and then I started getting a bad headache. And honestly, I felt physically like I have to get out of here because there was like this feeling of chaos, there was confusion, and I mean, honestly, I was feeling in a way like I had never felt before, never felt that way before with anybody in my life. And I just kept thinking, this is absolutely crazy. So finally I was able to interrupt and say, Oh, it's getting late, I've got to get out of here, I've got to get back to the kids and my husband, you know. And I remember when I got home, I walked in the door, and Jared can testify to this, but I walked in the door, and the first thing I said was, I will never be in a room alone with her again. That is the craziest experience I've ever had in my life. And I know that he believed me, but I don't think he could fully comprehend what I was saying, because until you encounter that yourself, until you experience something like that, you can't wrap your mind around it. You know, because you think, oh, you're probably just exaggerating. No, I'm not. I'm not exaggerating. And then another thing that happened was there was one time that I had texted her, and I don't remember what I texted her. It was a question, and it was so insignificant, I can't even remember what it was. But she responded to me in a really kind of aggressive, rude way. So she responded and she said, We are on vacation. This is not the time to be texting me. And so, you know, being me, I was like, Well, excuse me. So I texted back and I said, Well, I don't know your schedule. So obviously I didn't know you were on vacation, or something to that effect. So then she calls me and we were chatting about some stuff. I can't remember if she apologized for being rude or what, but we were chatting, and a few minutes into our conversation, she abruptly and loudly interrupts me, and she says her husband's name. I'm not gonna say his name, but she says, X just got back. I told you I can't talk right now. We're gonna have to talk about this later. And she hung up. And I remember just standing there, staring at my phone, thinking, What the heck just happened? What is this? And then a couple minutes later, her husband, the pastor, calls me from her phone. So I'm thinking it was her again. So I pick it up, but it was him, and he immediately starts to reprimand me for calling his wife after she had made it clear that they were on vacation. And I stopped him and I said, Um, she called me. I did not call her. And then I proceeded to tell him, and also, this is getting weird. And I told him that. And unbeknownst to me at the time, there were many other people that were encountering this type of thing with her in the church that we were at. But anyway, she's the reason. Though those encounters are the reason that I decided to seek out some answers about what the heck that was, because it was not normal and it was not God. So through that encounter, I learned a lot of things and I came to the conclusion that I had no doubt that this was a spirit of Jezebel on that person. And what I've realized over the last several years is that ultimately the spirit of Jezebel goes hand in hand with witchcraft. They operate in the same way. That's why I also started to feel the physical symptoms, pressure in my head, a headache. And there was there was one episode I did where I talked about that, that there are physical manifestations when you are affected by the spirit of Jezebel. Not every headache is from that, but we have to pay attention to our bodies because sometimes it's telling you something that's going on outside of yourself and not internally. But that example that I just gave, those examples, those are really obvious and kind of in your face types of examples. So that's what I figured I would be looking for. I I really had no clue that witchcraft, Jezebel, manipulation, control, all those types of things could hide underneath the surface in Christians. Because my experience was that it was very bold. And, you know, when it's hiding underneath where you can't really see it, that's where you can get sucked in yourself. That's where you can slowly become influenced and manipulated by it because you don't know what you're dealing with. My friends Kelly and Andrew Whalen actually did a recent podcast titled Escaping the Narcissist's Tower on their podcast, Vanquished Darkness. It's on YouTube. You could go to YouTube and listen to it. But they talked about how narcissism is often tied to the spirit of Jezebel. And honestly, I had not really thought about that before. I had not put those two things together until I listened to their podcast. So it got me thinking some more about my experience coming out of the church we did a couple of years ago. So I was recalling some more things, thinking of some more things, and I thought, okay, yeah, that adds up. There's some narcissism. For instance, one of the things that one of the leaders would often say when someone would leave the church, he would say, Well, there's only a remnant. There's only a remnant. And this was said to us many times, and maybe Jared and I were privy to those comments because we were good friends with him. Or maybe he said it to everybody, I don't know. But when he would say that, when he would say, Well, there's just a remnant, you know, when people would leave, I would just nod in agree in agreement. Because again, I was being influenced by that spirit. I was under all sorts of swirly witchcraft and manipulation. So even though I knew that there was something wrong about what he was saying, I would just nod and agree. Yep, we're the remnant. There's only a remnant. We're we're it. And now I look back and I think, how crazy is that? To believe that because someone leaves your church that they are not part of the remnant. So basically, he believes that his church is uniquely called to hold the remnant that the Bible talks about. I would say that's pretty narcissistic. Also, it's very cult-like, very unhealthy, very toxic. That is prime soil for a Jezebel spirit to take control. But something else that I feel is unhealthy in the church. You might disagree with me at first, but please hear me out in this. Please don't be mad at me. Just keep listening. Okay, here it is. I feel like the terms spiritual mother and spiritual father are being carelessly used and abused in the church, especially the charismatic realm. And, you know, I think there was a time where they were not being abused and used improperly, but I don't think we're in that season anymore. I don't think that's the case anymore. And, you know, even though there's some amazing and legitimate people who have come alongside others to help them along in their walk with Christ, to teach them, to lead them, I'm just leaning towards the fact that those terms need to be re-examined. For instance, let's just bring back using the term spiritual mentor instead of spiritual mother or father. And here's why, here's why I'm saying this. When we put the label mother or father on a person and connect it to the spirit, it automatically elevates them to a position of influence and authority over our spiritual lives. Now, I'm not saying that it's bad to have a spiritual authority in your life or you know, submitting to authority in your life in the church. I'm not saying that. But what I am saying is that using the terms father and mother removes the boundaries that should be around certain relationships. And then what happens is it puts them in a position where you feel like you should submit and be obedient to what they say. So they've kind of taken the position sometimes of the Holy Spirit in your life because they've been elevated to that place. And I think that people have loosely based this idea of spiritual mother and spiritual father off of a couple of verses. So one of them being Romans 16, when Paul says this in verse 13, he says, Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, also his mother, who has been a mother to me as well. And then possibly Titus 1, 4, Paul says this. He says, To Titus, my true son in the faith. But then when you look at the Greek translation, it actually translates to child, so to Titus, my true child in the faith. And, you know, I can see that, right? Where older people who are looking at these younger people in the faith, who maybe they are teaching or discipling, that they look at those younger people as a kind of their child. Or when younger people are looking up to someone older in the faith as a father figure or a mother figure. But nowhere does it mention a spiritual mother or father. And I believe it's because that role is reserved for God Himself in our lives. And I would even suggest that Paul said that about Rufus' mom because she was somebody who more than likely provided him with food or a place to sleep, and he and she cared for him in those ways, as a mother would. So where it starts to get tricky and where it starts to cross some lines is when people start to consider themselves to be your spiritual mother or father or spiritual father. And hear me out, because words matter. So are there mothers and fathers in the faith? Meaning people who have walked this walk for many years, they've earned those gray hairs on their heads. You know, these are people who deserve honor and respect because they have helped build the kingdom of God. They've built foundations in the kingdom. Yes, there are many of those mothers and fathers in the faith. And, you know, I personally know that some of you have a lot of love for the spiritual mothers and fathers that you've had in your lives. And that's what you would refer to them as a spiritual mother or father. So don't let this in any way make you feel different about that. I'm just saying that we are in a season where we need to zoom out and understand that the enemy has hijacked those terms, especially in the charismatic realm. And I think that he's done that in order to put Jezebel on the throne in many of these church environments. And what do I even mean by that? Well, number one, when you have a leader referring to themselves as mama, mama this, mama that, or you have a male leader referring to themselves as your spiritual father, they are automatically setting themselves up as your superior. They're positioning themselves at the top. And that's a problem because those types of systems do not work in God's kingdom. And I'm going to give you some examples of why, because this is what the Bible tells us. Luke 22, 26 says, Let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves. Galatians 3.28 talks about how we are all one in Christ Jesus. In Matthew 20, it says the first will be last and the last will be first. So as I said, the enemy has hijacked the terms spiritual mother and spiritual father to elevate people. And I believe that those terms are being used to manipulate and control other people. Not all the time, but often we are seeing this often in the church. And I want to give you some examples really quick. So, Mike Bickle of the International House of Prayer, Kansas City. If you have not heard of him, you could Google, just Google the Kansas City IHOP, Mike Bickle, and you'll be able to read lots of things about him. But he used his position as a spiritual father, which he called himself. And pretty much the entire church and school called him their spiritual father. He used that position to groom and abuse young women. And then you have, I mean, there's plenty that we could find, but there's another guy named Jonathan Welton, and he's another pretty well-known guy in the charismatic realm, and he used his position as a spiritual father to groom and abuse women. He would target young women who came to his church and his school, and he would tell them that he was their spiritual father. That's what he would say. I am your spiritual father. And he would groom them by crossing these physical boundaries little by little and telling them that they must have intimacy issues if they were uncomfortable with these long, close hugs that he would give them. He would tell them, hey, this is what this is what fathers and daughters do, and I'm trying to help you with your intimacy issues. But he would groom them to look at him like a father. You know why? Because, like I said before, it elevates him. Then you have a woman by the name of Catherine Crick. She has over a million followers on YouTube alone. That's just on YouTube. But she refers to herself as the spiritual mother of her church. That's what she tells people. I am your spiritual mother. And it's pretty creepy if you go watch some of her videos and her church's videos, because there's numerous, there's numerous videos of people coming and kneeling down before her and calling her Mama Catherine. Mama Catherine. And they kneel and they thank her. They thank her. They're not thanking God, they're thanking her. So that's a cult. That's not a church, that's a cult. And we are dealing with an enemy that is so crafty and he's so sly, and he knows how to use spiritual language to manipulate people, to gain a foothold, to implement his plans. And like I said, maybe some of you disagree with me on the spiritual mother, spiritual father thing, but I really feel like there is something to this. There's something on it that God wants us to know. And so we need to reexamine this stuff. We need to reexamine the use of the terms spiritual mother and spiritual father. Because do we not think that the enemy knows how to use spiritual language against us? He knows how to use it better than we do. He's been doing it a lot longer than we have. So manipulating spiritual language is very common in Jezebel run environments. And let's look at the book of Revelation. When Jesus said to the church at Thyatira, he said, I have this against you. You tolerate that woman Jezebel. And our American definition of tolerate is this. He was saying, why aren't you confronting it? Why aren't you getting involved? Why aren't you interfering with this? And it's because there was complacency in the church at Thyatira. And I would say that we are seeing that same type of complacency today in the church. And one of the reasons for that is because people have become enamored with those types of environments. Because there's a pull. And the reason that there's a pull to those environments is because there's a lot of manipulation, there is a lot of flattery. And I can tell you from experience that when you are in a place where Jezebel sits on the throne, there is a level of Witchcraft that is happening over you, and you become blind. You become blind to it, and you become like the eunuchs of Jezebel. You become like her eunuchs. And again, I'm saying this from experience because this was me for a period of time. So let's talk about that. So in the Bible, eunuchs were typically palace officials. They were personal attendants, they were servants, and they served kings and queens, usually. And their purpose was to fulfill domestic duties. So, you know, they took care of the house, they took care of the palace, they would do the cleaning, they would manage all sorts of stuff in the household. And another one of their duties was palace security, to provide security. So most of these eunuchs were men and they were castrated. That's fun, isn't it? Castrated. Because they were trusted to guard the queen and where she slept. So apparently castrating them removed the threat to the royal bloodline. And you know, they they wanted to make sure there wasn't going to be any hanky panky between these guys and the queen. So they were they were her protectors. And then another one of their duties was to be enforcers. So apparently most of them lacked families, they didn't have families or family ties. So they trained these eunuchs to be incredibly loyal to the queens and the kings that they served. So they were very faithful in carrying out the queen's demands or commands and wishes. And I can tell you this from experience that when you are under that type of influence, you will protect those leaders at all costs. Their enemies become your enemies. You will not have any room for any perceivable negativity towards that church or its leaders. And you will not have ears to hear anyone's concerns but the leaders, the people that are operating under the Jezebel spirit. You're not going to hear anybody else because they're always right. And you will defend them and protect them, even when you don't know why you're doing it. And again, from experience, I can tell you that you become blindly loyal. You will feel like it is your purpose to have their back. And the reason that you'll feel that way is because manipulation played a part in that. They have a way of manipulating people into feeling like you're their defender. And you might even find yourself confronting the confronters, the ones who have actually had their blindfolds ripped off, the ones who care enough to confront the unhealthy and toxic patterns of manipulation and control and spiritual abuse, you might find yourself confronting them because you think you're doing the Lord's work by doing that. When in reality, you're just a eunuch of Jezebel doing her bidding. So in that circumstance, even though you haven't been physically castrated, you've been spiritually castrated to where you don't have any discernment, to where your true voice and your true calling have been hijacked. You don't even know who you are anymore. It feels like the only thing you were born for was to defend and protect this leader or leaders. But the good news is God doesn't just leave us, He provides a way of escape for us if we are willing to see it and take action. And honestly, that's the hardest part is taking action. Not just leaving it alone, not just letting it be, but confronting it. And the reality is that can be a very painful process because you will lose a lot. But there's a lot of freedom on the other side. So it's worth it. It's worth it to confront. It's worth it to lose some things and to have freedom on the other side and to have your voice be free again to speak what God wants you to speak. I really believe that we are in a time where we cannot be too cautious of where and what we step into and where and what we step under. Because when you go into a church and you keep going to that church, you are putting yourself underneath a certain covering. And not every covering is from God, even if it has the label church on it. So we need to have discernment, we need to be in a continuous relationship with the Lord because, like I've said before, it's not always obvious that you're in a Jezebel controlled place. And sometimes things are so well hidden that you end up serving Jezebel thinking that you're serving God because you know it feels good, sounds good, it looks good, surely it's the Lord, right? But in 2 Corinthians, Paul said this: he said that Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light inside the church. That's what he was saying. He was talking to the church at Corinth, that the devil masquerades as an angel of light amongst those inside the church. So we have to get to a place where we rely fully on the Holy Spirit to show us and to lead us. We need to ask God for discernment. But the number one thing is you have to be willing to see what he shows you and then go where he leads you. And most of the time you're not gonna know where you're gonna end up. You just need to be obedient, and I feel like that's what happened to me and my family. We knew what God was showing us, we knew what he was telling us, and we were obedient even though we did not know what was going to be on the other side. But I'm so glad that we listened. So thanks again for listening. I hope you feel encouraged. If you ever have any questions or would like to reach out to me, you can always email me at the satisfied podcast at gmail.com.