bob-sabin_1_02-26-2025_105521: 0:00

Welcome to Tracking the Cats. This week's episode is going to bring you the senior associates commissioner for the Southern Conference. We always talk about all things cat mounts and Southern Conference is a big important part of that has been for 40 years now, 40 plus years, almost 50 years. Right, Steve?

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 0:20

That's right.

bob-sabin_1_02-26-2025_105521: 0:21

It's brought to you every time. We do this by Stanbury Insurance with offices in Silva Highlands in Waynesville, covering all your insurance needs across the Carolinas. So, but as I mentioned, we have Jeff C who has been with the Southern Conference almost 40 years now. Has. Been the actual director twice interim director and he's got so much information for us. This is gonna be a loaded podcast. Steve, you wanna take it away, sir?

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 0:52

Well, I know Jeff's been around the conference just about as long as the conference now. Ellie, you know, the only negative thing about Jeff is he went to UNC Asheville, UNCA grad, but, but on the positive side, he's got a Western Carolina daughter. So that's the, the. Part about, but Jeff has seen it all, I guess. Maybe he'd been through a dozen commissioners and a hundred head football and basketball coaches. Again, started I think in 1988, if I remember right. That's about 37, maybe pushing 38 years now. With the Southern conference seat started in Asheville, and then of course, when the conference office moved down to Spartanburg, he moved down there with them. But Jeff Southern Conference basketball tournament was held in Asheville. From 84 to 95, then it went on the road for several years returning 12 years ago from that, what I call it, nomadic tour through Greensboro and Greenville and Charlotte and North Charleston and Chattanooga. Your thoughts on that period and when the tournament really didn't have a home.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 2:01

Yeah. You know, we left Asheville, back in the, the mid nineties there, the building was kind of in some, some disrepair. It was getting a little bit unfunctional. So we left to to Greensboro and then from there, you know, went to those other places that you mentioned and, you know, stayed in those places two, three years at a time. So we lived kind of, nomadic existence. I, I would say you are probably right about that. I don't know that we ever had really bad experiences in any of those places. You know, I think we had successful tournaments in, in those places. We had some really good. Well attended tournaments in Charleston, but of those places really ever had the synergy I think that Asheville has had for the Southern Conference basketball tournament. You know, the the way that you know, the building is, is kind of the right size building. The downtown area. Obviously there's a lot to do in and around the arena itself. You know, the downtown hotels, the walkability. And the geographic location, you know, it's kind of if you threw a dart into the center of the conference, so you know that Asheville area would be right around the center of the conference. You know, having five or six schools within two hour drives and several within an hour drive, you know, of Asheville, kind of sets up for a really successful event. And this, you know, and the city. Kind of you know, makes it a big deal. You know, it feels like a big deal in the city. You know, you go in the city, you see a lot of things that are so co-branded. You know, you see stuff in businesses, you see stuff in hotels in restaurants and breweries and all that kind of stuff, you know, so it kind of, kind of gives it that big time feel. And some of the places we went were, were, were larger cities and you, and you didn't quite have that same, same feel around the tournament, you know? And so I think for lot of reasons, Asheville has worked worked really, really well. For the Southern Conference Tournament. You know, when we returned to Asheville after those after those years of kind of being in other places, it was, it was kind of a leap of faith. You know, we, we kind of told the city we would consider coming back if they would do, you know, all of these different things to kind of upgrade the building and make the building kind of functional for tournament basketball again. And, and, and, you know, and they did those things and, and we, of committed to come back there before those things were finished. so we both kind of locked arms, you know you know, and, and, and kind of jumped into the water together hoping that you know, all those things would, would happen in time for that first tournament to return. And they did. So and then, you know, it's kind of been a success story ever since then. So hopefully, we'll, we'll be there. A longer. Our, our current agreement runs through 26 so next year's tournament. Then there's, you know, discussions. This is kind of about the time where you start discussions about, you know, the, what next contracts might look like and next opportunities might look like. And so obviously we would have those discussions with Asheville first before we probably had'em with anybody else. So you know, hopefully it'll continue to be a great home for.

bob-sabin_1_02-26-2025_105521: 5:11

So are there, looking at the future are there other cities that have come to you guys and said, Hey we'd like to, we'd like to get in on this because it, it's a money maker for the folks of Asheville and the tourism around there.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 5:27

Oh, I think there's always cities that would be interested in, in having your event. You know, I think there's enough economic impact around our tournament. You know you know, the, the economic calculators that we use kind of puts the event around to, you know, six to$8 million worth of economic impact annually. and, and you know, that's numbers that. The folks in Nashville actually kind of came up with, so, so it is you know, it is a, a, an economic driver. So I think from, from that standpoint, I think there's always gonna be cities that are, that are interested. We haven't had any formal discussions or any, you know, even any. Even any initial discussions with any cities you know about that because we are contracted with Asheville right now. But I'm sure that you know that, that there would be, would be interest to other places, but it would have to meet a lot of these. Kind of criteria that we've accustomed to in Asheville. You know it needs to be, it needs to make geographic sense for a lot of schools. It needs to, you know, have the to have you know you know, successful local foundation with ticket sales and sponsorships and those kinds of things that, you know, those are kind of, those kind of foundational pieces are things that we've. We really developed in Asheville having the continuity of the tournament there. Over these years, you know, you've got a base of local sponsors that are always involved, you know, in the tournament. You've got, you know, a, a base of local ticket buyers that, you know, you can kind of count on every year locally. And so you have a, you know, you have some, some, some profitability on the local level that is kind of you know, regardless of who the actual matchups are gonna be. And so, you know, I think the, you know, the, the tournament won't be very successful if it moves to a city that, you know, the city doesn't really adopt it and they don't have those kinds of things. And then you're totally dependent on. Which teams advance and which teams are bringing the most fans. And, you know, if this team we'll have a good crowd, but if this team loses, we might not have a good crowd. So, you know, you don't want to kind of always, you know, you don't wanna kind of find yourself in a situation where you're just totally dependent on that.

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 7:37

Well, Jeff, being a veteran observer as I am of the Southern Conference basketball tournament, what do you expect at this year's tournament? Don't wanna put you on the spot, but start. I guess a week from tomorrow with the women's phase, and then a week from Friday for the men's tournament. A maybe a, a favorite. You've been observing some games. A favorite, maybe an upset team if you want to go out on a limb, what you've seen up to this point in the regular season Play.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 8:07

Well, I'll tell you what, this year on the men's side has been probably one of the most competitive years in a, in a top to bottom, you know, situation in the league that I've ever seen. You know, I think, yeah, I think there are. Six or seven teams probably that are gonna come to Asheville and think that I can win three games in this tournament and, and, and, you know, so I think there's legitimate chance for a lot of teams. And most years you come in and you say. Two, maybe three teams have that, you know, realistic shot. And this year I think it's a lot more than that. You know, it's you know, at one point, I mean, we still have possibility to have a three-way tie, you know, for our, for our, our conference championship, you know coming into the last. week of the regular season, which is, is crazy. You know, chattanooga's up a game. and then you know, you got U-N-C-G-A game back and then you got you know, Sanford two games back. But all that, all those schools play each other on this final weekend. So so that'll be really interesting. and you know, and even, you know the teams that are kind of at the bottom of the know Western Carolina is playing. and better and better. that's kind of been a hallmark of Coach Kraft's teams over the years is, you know, how, how they kind of improved throughout the season. they're a real, they're a real threat to, to knock some people off in this tournament. They've played top teams in this league very close, and they've played top teams in this league close the last couple of weeks. You know, and Citadel, you know, who's, who's Winless in the conference right now. They, you know, they would've beaten Chattanooga this last game at Chattanooga. But they made a shot that was about two tenths of a second late at the buzzer, or they would've won that game. So this, the competitive balance this year is gonna be the really fun part and the really interesting part about the men's tournament on the women's side, you know, Greensboro's kind of separated themselves at the top, you know, wofford's, really dangerous team. They've had some injuries. They were probably the preseason favorite. They've been a little banged up. but if they kind of find their foot at footing in a tournament, I think could happen happen on that side of it as well. So it's gonna be really. fun weekend, both you know, women's and men's basketball. And then year we're bringing our conference, wrestling tournament back to Asheville on the same weekend, and that'll be held over at UNCA at Kimmel Arena. So, you know, I know Western Carolina doesn't, doesn't have wrestling, but but we've got you know, eight, schools in our, in our wrestling consortium there that you know, will have a good time in Nashville that weekend as well.

bob-sabin_1_02-26-2025_105521: 10:43

Well speaking of wrestling and stepping away from the basketball tournament one of the things that you are involved in over the years has been scheduling and. God bless you, that's gotta be a nightmare for all sports. But particularly with football and basketball, the big sports where you've got this compact early season out of conference scheduling, and yet you want to get, particularly in football, one or two matchups early in the season. How does that work for you trying to work with every school to avoid conflicts on student breaks and festivals and things like that?

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 11:21

You can't avoid'em all. You know that, that, that's the one thing you know, we try to take everybody's, list, if you will, at the start. And, and try to try to accommodate as many of those things as you can, but it just becomes physically impossible to kinda schedule away from everything. But, but you try to do as much of it as you can. And then also, you know, there's a, there's a. You know, a, a list of criteria that we've developed in each of our sports for scheduling you know, around football. It's, you know you know, not giving anybody more than two straight on the road having, you know, at least one home game in November. You know, there's all kinds of criteria. that, they kind of have to fit into the schedule as well. So it becomes a big, a big puzzle. We're working a lot now with you know, with with artificial intelligence and, and, and companies that, that do this to kind of help us, kind of find the best because it's really big math formula at the end of the day, you know, so they can run. On our criteria, thousands and of schedules, and kind of tell us which kind of has. You know, errors in it, and that's usually the one at the end of the day that we end up going with. But know, also what complicates our football schedules a a little bit is that we allow schools to schedule non-conference first. So, you know, the opportunity for schools to have flexibility with their non-conference scheduling and football allows them to get, you know, guarantee games from bigger schools, maybe at you know, at. know, untraditional weeks during the season, you know, it might be a mid-year guarantee, or it might be late in the season, or it might be early in the season, but we allow them the, the flexibility to kind of complete that non-conference schedule first. we kind of fit the, you know, the conference games around the non-conference schedule. And that's just, that's worked out well for everybody from a non-conference scheduling flexibility standpoint. when if you have, you know, if. Western Carolina with an early conference game. That's because, you know, other schools had non-conference games that weekend and you didn't. and so we tried to make a conference game there on that date so that you didn't have a, a bi-week, you know, for example, really early in the season, you know, nobody wants bi-week on week one or week two, or nobody wants a bi week, the last weekend of the season. So you know, so, so we try to work with with all of that to. To make the best schedule we can. But say with scheduling, it's if, if I can make you know, nine or 10 schools unhappy, I think I've done a pretty good job. If somebody's really happy about their schedule, you know, you've probably messed something up.

bob-sabin_1_02-26-2025_105521: 14:01

Hey, I have one more question along scheduling, and that is something that fans get confused of and why. There is many seasons 11 game schedule for FCS, but a couple of times at each decade there's a 12 game season and we happen to have two years in a row of that this year. Can you explain that?

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 14:21

Yeah, it's, it's based on the NCAA calendar and, and I can't quote the exact thing, but it's, if Labor Day falls on a certain, you know, part in the calendar, then there's so many weeks that the season can be played. And so on those, on those, those years where that happens, then 12 games are allowed. and so it was 24 and 25 were 12 game seasons. The next one won't be until 2029. So the next three seasons to 26, 27, 28 will all be be back to 11 game seasons unless there's some other kind of rule change in the NCA along the, you know, along the.

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 15:02

Yeah. Yeah, I know. Thanksgiving is one of the. End of they, they want to have the schedule completed, like for FCS start the football playoffs Thanksgiving weekend. So I think that there's dates you have between, well actually this year will be starting in August and going until Thanksgiving weekend. But, jeff, I know, you know, Western Carolina's one of the biggest pains in, you know, the rear when it comes to scheduling with Mountain Heritage Day. You can't play on Mountain Heritage Day. We got fall breaks, we got bandaid and all these stuff, and people don't understand what you're going through. But I, I definitely do. Being on the old calendar community back in the days at Western, I know what you're fighting against, but. Speaking to about another tournament the baseball tournament, I see where that has been extended a three year extension on the contract with Flo Field and, and Greenville, South Carolina. But there, which is a little bit strange because, you know, Greenville doesn't Furman doesn't have baseball anymore, but it's, I guess it's turned out that's a great facility and it would be nice to have a home team there to, to draw attendance. But the league guy obviously seems pretty happy with the tournament being in in Greenville. And if you might wanna allude a little bit back to the days when we first started in Asheville. 19, I guess was right along 84, let's see, when was it? 84. 85.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 16:27

Yeah, I was,

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 16:28

88.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 16:28

I was,

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 16:29

88.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 16:29

I had just started,

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 16:31

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 16:32

at the conference.

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 16:36

Remember the last year we had the tournament, I think that would've been 89, and we sat there, watched a inning and a half, I think VMI and Furman play, and then we watched it rain for three days and then the tournament was no more in Nashville because of they blamed it on the weather, I guess, because the facility, they didn't have the facilities to maintain the fill. And Charleston grabbed it for many, many years. I'm sure you remember that, that end of that tournament.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 17:02

Oh yeah, that was, that was yeah, not sure we knew exactly what we were doing back then. It was it was you know, the tournament really hadn't been a thing, you know, in a

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 17:12

Yeah. Right.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 17:13

had a baseball tournament, and so I. We, we, we started that thing in Asheville because the league office was in Asheville. And yeah, and we had just the worst luck you know, with that, that tournament that year. And and it did, I think we did end up getting some, we did end up like sending some teams home and took like

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 17:32

Yeah.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 17:33

and, and played a like, single elimination game out in Swano

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 17:38

Well, Montre

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 17:39

know.

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 17:39

Montre College.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 17:40

Yeah.

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 17:40

Mm-hmm.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 17:41

And that's kind of how the tournament finished up. So it ended, obviously ended with a whimper and not a bang that year. But then Charleston took it over and did a, did a, did a great job. You know, Walton Azak a at Sizzle kind of spearheaded that thing. It was very there. You know, kind of, kind of ran through its course there. And, and in Greenville we started going to Greenville and, and people kind of much like Asheville for the basketball tournament, they, they've kind of fallen in love with that, you know, that, that, you know, the city's awesome as you know. It's you know, that West End where the park is at is, is just, just a tremendous area. has the same things basketball has, it has, you know, the downtown hotels, the walkability, the restaurants and bars kind of around, you know, around the, the, the ballpark. it has a lot of, a lot of attractiveness to it. And, and the, and the, you know, the. The, the stadium itself is really, you know, it, it, it's as good as they come, as far as minor league parks go. And, you know, the, the uniqueness of it, you know, because they're a Red Sox affiliate you know, they have kind of the, you know, the Fenway Park dimensions and the Green Monster and the monster seats and all that kind of stuff. And so it's really a, really a neat experience for fans, but it's really a neat experience. Our players as well. So we're happy we're gonna be going back there for for three more years. So it's it's been a, been a great, you know been a great relationship so far. We've been there about a. And you know, of course Furman had baseball at the time. We went there, they dropped it.

bob-sabin_1_02-26-2025_105521: 19:11

Speaking of, of the baseball tournament I've been to several of'em over the last few years and love Greenville, like you said, it, it's got a great atmosphere, great park. But Talking about the conference a lot like basketball. It's always a good conference. Western Beat Maryland twice this weekend, took the series and Southern Conference baseball is really good. It's kind of frustrating to see only one team the, the tournament winner get into the NCA playoffs. Thoughts on that?

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 19:43

Yeah, and, and we've been at league historically. We've, we've had multiple bids in baseball. We've been really close. Couple of the. Last few years. You know, I think Wofford might've been the first or second team out a couple of years ago. So we've been, we felt like they were in, you know and, and it's, you know, it's, it's obviously tough to get at large, at large bids. And you have to be, you know, kind of fortunate. But but we do think our baseball is, is, is worthy. you know, I think we were ninth amongst all division one conferences last year in baseball. RPI. So that's, that's really good. but it's really not about the conference RPI, it's about the RPI of those individual teams and their schedules and how the committee evaluates'em. And, and you know, we just gotta keep kind of talking about Southern Conference baseball and our teams gotta, you know, win some of the games they need to win. And, know, hopefully we kind of get back to being that, know league that kind of on a given year can put two teams in. And I, I think we will.

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 20:44

Yeah, Jeff, with the college landscaping just changing almost daily now with the lawsuits and the transfer portal, the NIL schools leaving conferences for other conferences. What do you see, and this might be a little tough one here, what do you see for the future of the Southern Conference?

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 21:05

Well, I, I think our, our future is, is bright. You know, you know, I think we have 10 schools and 10 university presidents that, that that like this association that they have right now with these 10 schools. I think where we can come out on some of this stuff is kind of being a, you know, a, a little bit of a bashing of sanity, if you will, for how conferences should do things. You know, I, I know there. taking place, you know, amongst the presidents about, you know you know, the house settlement and, and you know, schools either opting in or opting out. And I think they'll probably have the ability do what they feel is best for them on that regard. And, and but, but also at the same time, you know maintaining some. Competitive equity you know, within your conference, you know don't think anybody in our conference can just go outspend, you know, I don't think one school can just go outspend another school and just, you know, win everything. I, you know, I think all of our schools, you know, have their own challenges with budgets and, and have their own you know, things going on with that. So I think our competitive equity will be there. But I think also our, you know, you know, our, our, our geographic. Integrity too with our schools. You know, we're not, putting kids in airplanes and flying'em across the country, you know, every other week, you know, to do, to, to have conference competitions like so many other leagues are. so I think, you know, we can kind. We can kind of make a lot of sense in, in, in some ways in this new environment you know, with the way we operate and kind of the things we stand for and, and, and the things that you know, that our schools agree to, to do together. And, and you know, I think but, but you know, obviously things like NIL and the transfer portal and things like that are all here, you know and our schools are gonna, you know, have to participate in some of those things that. You know, at, at, at, at some level. It obviously won't be at, you know, the Power four level where, you know, you, you know, where they're probably gonna spend$22 million, you know to just on players. You know, our schools aren't gonna do that, but know, maybe we can give our kids a little something and, and, and, and kind of, you know kind of show them the, the value of the Southern Conference and the value of, you know, the degrees from these institutions. And, and also show'em, you know, as far as that transfer portal goes, that the grass isn't always greener. you know, when they, when they make these jumps up to these larger conferences, they may get a little more money in their pocket, but, you know I've tracked a lot of our basketball players that have. Left after last year and went on and, and, you know, and got some, know, some, some better money, but they're not playing a whole lot. You know, they're not producing a whole lot. They're, they're kind of there as as, as, as break in case of emergency plans for some of these schools, you know, in case in case their depth gets impacted. And so you know, I think, you know, we. We kind of get that message out to people as well that you know, you have a chance to in the Southern Conference and be a little bit of a bigger deal than maybe you are, in some of these other places.

bob-sabin_1_02-26-2025_105521: 24:12

And to that end one of the things that the fans like to talk about is teams coming and going in the conferences. And, you know, we haven't, we lost a few over the last, you know, it's been 10 or 15 years, but you know, Elon and College of Charleston, of course, Georgia Southern App State, and we talked at all about expansion. And you know, there are teams out there that. Up like Tennessee Tech and North Alabama and NC Central and some of those. Has there been any talk about expansion within the conference? Both members and the organization itself?

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 24:47

I think it's always something that's kind of, it's always kind of a topic for, for any conference I. Are an attractive conference for a lot of schools that, that might be looking to improve their situation. expansion is really, it's a, it's, it's driven at the presidential level though. You know, it's those 10 presidents of the conference that, that make those decisions. And you know, when they get in kind, you know, if they get into an expansion mindset you know, I think that's, you know, that's when expansion would happen. There's, there's kind of two reasons why conferences expand. They expand to make themselves better, they expand because they have to. you always wanna be in a position where you're expanding to make yourself better. And I think that's kind of the position we're in right now is that if we do expand, it's going to be to make ourselves better, not necessarily just to add schools for the sake of adding schools. And so at least you know, as, as things stand today, I think we're, we're looking at expansion from a. You know, from a standpoint of strength rather than weakness. And and, and I think that's that's to our advantage if, if and when those conversations take place.

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 25:59

Yeah, I know that there's been a lot of schools over the years. People I know at other schools are very interested in coming to Southern Conference. But again, I don't know, like you said, I don't know what the appetite is for expansion. I think we've. Got a great conference right now and I'm very happy with it. And people here at Western Carolina are also, I, I know that for a fact.

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 26:20

Yeah. Yeah, I hope so. I All of our schools are, and, you know and, and I think they are, you know you know, it's it's a lot of things going on in college athletics that people gotta figure out. But hopefully conference affiliation is not one of the things that they do have to figure out.

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 26:34

yeah.

bob-sabin_1_02-26-2025_105521: 26:35

Hmm. Well one other thing that. The fans like to talk about is officiating and, oh man, we got this bad call against us. You know, I remember the, the last play of the Wofford football game about five years ago where we thought we had scored and, and how do you guys deal with, how do you select your officials and how do you evaluate them? And then if there is a problem, how do y'all resolve it?

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 27:03

Well, we're in with a lot of our sports we're in in what they call consortiums, which are basically where you have four or. Under the same officiating umbrella. So, right now our men's basketball, women's basketball, football. Baseball all reside under a consortium that is spearheaded by the Southeastern Conference. So coordinators of officials work for the Southeastern Conference you know, they, you know, so for example, our consortium in men's basketball consists of, you know, of the SEC, the American Athletic. The Sunbelt us and Atlantic Sun, all as kind of one under one officiating umbrella. So, our coordinators are the ones that recruit, train, hire, assign the officials for each of our games in those in those respective sports. So there's a. There's a coordinator and it's usually somebody that's a, ex official who was at a very high level that's now retired, that is, that is kind of doing that. So they're doing the, training and evaluating and, and, and assigning for all of those. And then when there are issues that come up in games, which there are going to be. Issues that come up in games. Officiating is not a perfect science. you know, there are gonna be missed calls. There can be bad calls. There's gonna be no calls. You know, there's gonna be all those kinds of things that come up. there's a process that the coaches go through with our coordinators, you know, to. Send in the clips of these, these situations, have the coordinator come back to them, to them that this call was actually correct or, or know that you were right. This call was incorrect. You know, a lot of times it's you know, it's it, it's, it's kind of a, you know, when there's incorrect stuff, it's kind of more along the lines of teachable moments for those officials. You know, the coordinator kind of coaches them through those situations if they were to again, and how they should. How they should have handled it or how they, how they would do it differently next time. And then there are just issues that are kind of, you know, there, there, there are sometimes egregious mistakes that take place. And then that's kind of where we step in along with the coordinator to say, you know, do we need some kind of, further accountability on, on that mistake. So it might be, you know, we don't make a lot of that stuff public, you know?'cause I don't think that really does, you know, that might, might make, make people feel good in the moment, I don't think that that does a lot, you know, for that official in their development. You know, to kind of every time they make a mistake to just kind of make it public about, you know, about what we're, what we're doing. But there are situations where we, you know, we take games from'em, you know, so that impacts their, know, their, their, their checkbooks or know, or we might have situations where you know, officials have, you know, had two or three instances of, of situations at one school. That official and that school don't really see each other for a period time you know and if it got, you know, to where, things were happening, we felt with an official a little too often, those people just won't be retained on the staff the next year. You know and, and that happens as well, you know, every year we have, from our staff, we'll have 2, 3, 4 officials that just won't be invited back. And so know, there's always a pipeline of other officials that are, that are coming up and, and know, with a lot of our sports now, I think you see in, in, in football, men's basketball. I think you're seeing a lot of younger officials now in those two sports than maybe what you saw in, in the past, and that's just kind of been the, the natural turnover of, of the officiating in those sports. And, you know, guys that have come up from division two and now getting their chance in division one and you know, and they're kind of developing. Along that path and, know, and some of our officials get really, really, really good and, and we'll lose them. You know, the SEC will take them and put'em on their SEC crews or their, you know, so, that's kind of the. The, the, the way things kind of work in the officiating world too, and basketball, not as much. You know, people aren't quite as tied down to, like in football, it's all crew based, you know, so if you're a Southern conference crew, you, you are working a Southern conference game every weekend. Basketball. You might work an SEC game on Tuesday, a Southern conference game on Wednesday, athletic game on. But but I think we are seeing, you know a little bit more of a youth movement in, in some of our sports now and are officiating so.

bob-sabin_1_02-26-2025_105521: 31:30

Cool.

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 31:32

Bob, I'm in good shape on my end. We could add more, but I

bob-sabin_1_02-26-2025_105521: 31:36

Oh yeah.

squadcaster-bag2_1_02-26-2025_105513: 31:36

Looking at our time, it looks pretty good. So however I just just really appreciate Jeff coming on and we go back a long way. You know, we go back I won't tell him about 1986 and Kansas City when Jeff was looking for a job and, mike Gore and I, the SID from UNCA, we had a room together and Jeff spent a lot of time on the floor of our room,

geoff-cabe_1_02-26-2025_105513: 31:59

Yeah. Yeah. At the, at the co convention. Yeah. Looking for a job that's, that's right. Was Steve was one of my first first, first people that I met in the business, so.

bob-sabin_1_02-26-2025_105521: 32:11

That's great. Well, and I've known Steve since 1971. I was working at the campus radio station at Western and he was my go-to for our sports announcements and stuff. So it's been a good run and really appreciate you having me on here today, Jeff. Thanks for your time. Thanks for the information and we're gonna wrap up. It up for this episode of Tracking the Cats. We'll see you all back again in a week or two brought to you as always, by Stanbury Insurance with offices in Silva, Waynesville and Highlands. Thanks folks, and see you all next time.