Raising Neurodivergent Kids Using Compassion with Michelle Macland-Hambleton MSW RSW

I talk with registered social worker Michelle Macland-Hambleton about how to support neurodivergent children with compassion, clarity, and practical tools. We reframe behavior as communication, explore PDA/Pathological Demand Avoidance, and share strategies for co-regulation and caregiver sustainability.

• Defining neurodivergence through a biopsychosocial lens
• Behavior as communication, not defiance
• Masking, meltdowns, and the after‑school crash
• Sensory needs and environmental adaptations
• Pathological Demand Avoidance and anxiety‑driven resistance
• Choice, predictability, and breaking tasks down
• Strength‑based language that builds identity
• Sibling equity and transparent family communication
• Micro self‑care to prevent caregiver burnout
• Advocacy, services, and letting kids practice self‑advocacy

Find support: harmonyhaven.ca • info@harmonyhaven.ca
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Transcript

Welcome And Purpose

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to a license today. I've been talking and I'm excited for joining me today. I dive into medical health topics topics of relationships and overall health fields. With over 20 years of experience in relationship clinical social workers, I started by expert guests for asking about making a positive difference. I started this podcast because I was frustrated with the often reading of recycled information in social media involving self-help and in the mental health field. My goal is to provide you with genuine, useful content that's educational and informative. Thanks for tuning in. I hope you find our conversations both enlightening and empowering. I'm glad you're here.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Hi everyone, I would like to invite and welcome Michelle Matlin Hambleton with us today to talk about a very important topic and helpful for families and parenting neurodivergent kits and how to be able to connect. So wondering, Michelle, if you could share a bit about yourself and thanks so much for coming in today just to speak about the topic.

Defining Neurodivergence

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Thanks, Sabrina. I appreciate the opportunity, as this is something I'm obviously really passionate about and something that I do kind of every day in my private practice work. And so just a little bit about myself. I'm a registered social worker in the province of Ontario. And my journey into this field was one that was really shaped by more than just education. It really kind of pulled on my life experience as well. So becoming a mom at 17 years old, I spent a lot of years juggling everything from post-secondary studies to trying to work and just really the everyday challenges of figuring out life. I became, I initially went through college at Loyalist College in the Community and Justice Services program, where I really found a passion for mental health and helping others. And so that's ultimately what led me to pursuing, you know, my bachelor's and then eventually my master's in social work while raising my young kiddos. And then it was really my personal experience with my eldest daughter, who is neurodivergent, that kind of just really shaped and influenced my professional path going forward. So from a really young age, I always recognized her unique needs and just really recognized a system that wasn't necessarily always there to help and often dismissed us, whether that was due to me being a young mom, whether that was just our general life circumstances. But right from when she was little, I always noticed quite a consistent profile of which is something I'll talk a little bit more about. So pathological demand avoidance, a lot of sensory challenges, a lot of high masking when she was out in the community, so much so that she actually didn't receive a formal diagnosis until she was about 12. So this journey of advocacy through really complex systems, just that resilience piece and understanding eventually became kind of the cornerstone of my private practice. And where I started to create, you know, like my goal was really to have just a safe and affirming space for not just individuals who were neurodivergent, but also in supporting their families and those that are around them. Just really a space to be able to process the emotions that come with that, the identity pieces, um, you know, how to strengthen relationships and build on resilience in a in a space that's really not designed for neurodivergent folks and their families. Yeah. And then in addition to being the founder of Harmony Haven, which is my private practice, I'm also the senior manager of mental health with our military family services. And so I kind of oversee a lot of policy-related things, mental health framework, which is kind of like my bread and butter. I love doing that, but then also love uh that clinical frontline work too.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

That's great. And thanks so much for sharing a bit of your lived-in experiences as well. I think that's quite important in supporting families to have an understanding of the frustrations and navigating the system for services and supports. And can imagine when there's other layers that are interconnected, such as, you know, language barrier or again not having knowledge or access to the resources out there, how how much more challenging it can be.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

I often think of that and how like I'm a social worker and my husband is a developmental services worker. And so we just by virtue of that did understand the systems and knew how to navigate them. And so I think that's where I felt kind of compelled to support families in that exact journey, right? When they were struggling to access resources or didn't know what was available, just being able to pass along that knowledge and and understanding of a really complex system.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Yes. And also a great point you brought up in your introduction as well is to have that knowledge and skill to work with a neurodivergent population, just because someone may be a counselor and have training and therapy doesn't necessarily mean they have the scope or is is using a lens that might be most supportive and beneficial. Yeah. So I was wondering how you would define neurodivergence.

Behavior As Communication

SPEAKER_02 4:40

So I think this is this is an interesting question because I think I I think depending on who you ask, you might get kind of a variance of maybe how how they would want to define neurodivergence. But I think for me, it just really speaks to that natural variation in the way that different people or how their brain processes information, how they learn, how they communicate, and really ultimately how they experience the world. And I've always taken this vantage point as neurodivergent, not as a not as a deficit, but that needs to be fixed, but rather something that is a part of human diversity, right? The same way that we look at other pieces of an individual's social location. And I always really kind of look at it from that bio-psychosocial lens, right? And I think we can break down neurodivergence into three major parts when we're looking at it from this lens. You know, when we look at that biological sense, we know that there's neurological differences. So we can look at, you know, diagnoses like autism, ADHD, dyslexia, other cognitive or sensory profiles, which we know are rooted in brain structure. But these differences often influence someone's, as much as they influence someone's attention, regulation, learning, or sensory processing, we know that there's other psychological and social pieces that then play into that as well. So in the psychological sense, neurodivergence shapes the way a person might experience emotions, their relationships, their overall identity, and how they manage stress. You know, it might contribute to the like I would say that it also contributes to some different strengths. And this is something I I wanted to talk about a little bit later, too, because I think that we often focus a lot on the deficits that come with neurodivergence. But I think what's so important is to open up that conversation about how they're also very uniquely equipped to deal with things in a way that we might not, right, as a neurotypical individual. So when we look at creativity and problem solving or their resilience, as well as challenges and environments that, you know, just aren't designed with neurodivergence in mind. And I think that ties in exactly to the piece of when we're looking at social components of neurodivergence, I would I would argue that the greatest barrier is often not from the actual neurological differences itself, but from societal expectations where you would look at systemic inequalities and the stigma that surrounds neurodivergence. And also where I always take the lens that emphasizes advocacy, inclusion, and environmental adaptation so that families, schools, workplaces, and communities can foster belonging and better accessibility for neurodivergent folks. I think ultimately neurodivergence highlights the importance of recognizing and valuing differences in human development and functioning. And as a social worker, for me, this means partnering with individuals and families to reduce the barriers that they're facing, promoting mental health and building systems of support that really honor their lived experience and the way that they experience life as a whole every day.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Right. So that's a great point you brought up as well, is to focus on the strengths too and the skills that a person may have instead of always focusing on the behaviors, the challenges or or issues. And so that's really helpful to hear about. We have to look at the situation in person as a whole. So what are some challenges behaviorally for caregivers? And we're thinking that because a lot of the focus does tend to be on behaviors, whether it's for the caregiver or the child or yeah, uh when raising a neurodivergent child.

Sensory Needs And Masking

Pathological Demand Avoidance Explained

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Yeah, I agree with you. And I think that's, you know, ultimately why I end up seeing a lot of families in my private practice, right? It really is caregivers coming to learn more about their neurodivergent child, but also then to learn about the different ways that as a parent they can support their child in the best way that they possibly can. And I always give, like, I, you know, I just really commend parents that are willing to also put in that work, right? Because although, you know, a neurodivergent child can learn also different coping tools and strategies, I think at the end of the day, it's like a it's a family, it's a family scenario, right? Where if everyone puts in the work, then we can get to a place of real genuine connection where we can start to look at the strengths and the other side of what neurodivergence means. And I think, you know, I think to kind of go back to so what are what are some of the behaviors that caregivers might see or experience? I think that this is where it's so often misunderstood as problems or defiance when we're looking at neurodivergence, when really it's actually the child's way of communicating, regulating, or even trying to cope just with what's happening around them. So, for example, I think, you know, you might notice your child has really big feelings. Maybe what seems like a small issue to a parent or to someone around them could spark a huge reaction for a neurodivergent child. You know, or we look at something like transitions, moving from playtime to dinner can feel like kind of climbing a mountain for some kids. Many kids also find comfort in routine and predictability. And when that gets disrupted, their system kind of goes into overdrive. Sometimes they hold it together in public so they might mask and appear fine when they're out in the community. And then they start to release at home, right? So that's really where they feel safe. And parents will often see, I kind of call it that like post-school meltdown or post-activity meltdown, which often leaves parents wondering like, why do I get the meltdowns when no one else does? Right. And the truth is really that it's because home is their safe place. It's where they feel like they can do what they need to do to regulate again. And I'm also careful when I say that because I know that sometimes it can feel invalidating as a parent to hear like you're the safe space. That's why they behave that way when they're at home. You know, it's not to negate, it's not to negate that it's not difficult. It really is. But at the same time, we have to like honor the fact that, you know, a neurodivergent kiddo feels so safe when they come home to just really be themselves, take off that mask. And sometimes that meltdown is how they are able to transition back to a place of self-regulation. I think communication also looks really different for a lot of neurodivergent kids. So some kids take things very literally and may struggle with jokes or sarcasm or abstract language, which as adults we often use. Others might have trouble, you know, starting conversations or on the flip side, they might even talk a lot about topics they really love. And I think the important piece is recognizing that neither is wrong. It's really just a different rhythm of how neurodivergent kiddos are connecting with those around them. Sensory experiences is another big component of neurodivergence. So maybe your child is chewing on things, spinning, rocking, or seeking just out movement, right? Just they might be jumping up and down on the couch, they might want to run in circles, or on the opposite side, they might be avoiding certain things, right? So clothing textures, they might cover their ears, they might really dread busy, noisy places. And when their sensory world gets too intense, meltdowns or shutdowns can happen, right? And that's where we often see that happen after school or after busy activities, and not because the child wants to be difficult, but really because their body and their mind is genuinely overwhelmed. So in school or learning environments, you could see those bursts of incredible focus on something they love, but also struggles to stay on task with things that maybe don't interest them. And that's where I think like multi-step directions can feel like almost like a missing puzzle piece sometimes, even if they're trying their best. And sometimes the way that they solve problems might look off track when really they're showing their creative creativity, sorry, and their unique thinking styles. And so, and I think that's where one of probably the most paramount pieces that I see in my private practice is this conversation around pathological demand avoidance. So parents really struggling to understand why a child might be resisting requests or just even everyday, everyday tasks, right? And it can, this really can show up and look like defiance to a lot of people. But I think with PDA, that resistance usually comes from anxiety and a need to feel safe and in control. So not from a desire to be oppositional at all, but where even simple demands like put on your shoes can feel overwhelming to a child who's experiencing that kind of that PDA piece. Um and it's really not about willpower, it's not about discipline, it's about their nervous react, like their nervous system reacting to the pressure of that demand in the moment and really when their coping skills can run out, right? Kids can have those meltdowns and might shut down. And then that's where some of those demands just really feel overwhelming. And this is where in my private practice as a social worker, I always really emphasize and encourage parents and individuals, even in just in the community, to shift the lens from these aren't signs of a bad child. It's not a sign of bad parenting, it's not a sign of oppositional behavior. They're really just signals that your child's saying, like something right now feels too big. And when you look at behavior through that lens of communication and unmet need rather than from this vantage point of being oppositional, it really opens up a new way of supporting that child and of giving yourself some compassion too as a caregiver in those situations.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Right. So understanding that behaviors are communicating something, really it's it's helpful to explore what it is. And I think sometimes that can be overwhelming for parents in the midst of it looks like it's not connected to anything or you know, what's maybe what would it it would normally be typically, and it can be frustrating, or parents may have all these feelings around it.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

So it's great to I think in particular, like when we look at parents who, you know, are very neurotypical and don't understand kind of those overall experiences. I think a lot of the work that I do is a is a psychoeducational component about that, like how how the child is really feeling and experiencing the world and how that differs from how we may feel and experience the world, and just really getting to a place of understanding and that's okay. And how do we sit with our kids when they're having those big emotions and how do we co-regulate with them rather than taking it personal as a parent as though we've done something wrong and we can't get our child to comply, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Right. And it's okay to ask for help and not knowing all of the solutions or or answers on on what would support a child during those times. Exactly. Which can be hard. What are some ways that caregivers can cope though with when their child shows big emotions and and how to cope with their own emotions? That helps with co-regulation.

Reframing And Co‑Regulation

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, I think when a child is really showing those big emotions or some of those behaviors that we just talked about are coming out and they're feeling really hard to manage. As a parent, it can be easy to jump to that thought again of they're being defiant or I must be doing something wrong. Right. I know I asked myself that a lot when my daughter was younger and I carried a lot of self-guilt about what was I doing wrong. But I I always encourage parents to pause and think about this behavior again, just like if we're looking at it as communication that allows us to open up our thoughts to, you know, our child's not trying to make our life harder. They're not trying to make their own life harder. They're really letting us know in the best way that they can in that moment that something right now is just too big and they're struggling to manage that. And I think one of the most helpful things that I always encourage caregivers to do to help them cope in these moments is to reframe that question, right? So instead of asking, why is my child acting like this? Try thinking of it as what are they trying to tell me right now? Because that little shift can really open up so much more compassion and patience as a parent. Because when we start to look at this as how can we be attuned to our child's need versus how can we get them to do something, it really shifts the way that we approach those different situations. Because children who are neurodivergent often thrive when life feels predictable, right? We know that. So routines, visuals, warnings before transitions are all really helpful. It's kind of like giving them a map instead of just expecting them to find their way. Um, and when and when those big feelings come, your calm presence is what matters the most. And so I often talk to parents about that co-regulation piece, right? And I'll talk a little bit more too about um, you know, even just attending therapy as a as a parent as your way of coping, because we can't co-regulate if we're stressed out, right? If as a parent we're going through it, it's really, it makes it really difficult to be able to co-regulate alongside our children. I think it's also really helpful, um, you know, instead of internalizing it as a parent, how do we externalize some of this? So if our child is really struggling, how do we turn to the environment and assess different things? Like, is it too loud in here right now? Is it too bright? Is it too crowded? Because sometimes what looks like a meltdown is actually our child's body just saying, This is too much right now. And a small adjustment, so like headphones, side space, some sensory tools can give that child the space they need to regulate. And I know often it's tempting to push back in those moments of resistance from our child, but this is where I always emphasize that connection works so much better than control, especially with neurodivergent kiddos. So instead of getting into that power struggle, offering choice and breaking tasks down can reduce that pressure. So, for example, do you want to brush your teeth before or after pajamas? Feels less overwhelming to a neurodivergent child than to just give a firm demand of go brush your teeth, which I think seems silly on the surface sometimes. But when I encourage parents to practice it at home with their child, they often come back and they're like, wow, like choice really opens up that conversation with my child and it mitigates that feeling of resistance. I think most importantly, I always encourage parents, and I, you know, I always say, like, remember that you don't have to do it perfectly, right? Your child doesn't need you to be perfect. And it's not that we're gonna get it right every time, but they really just need us as parents to show up for them when they're struggling to regulate. They need to know that you really see them, you accept them, and that you'll walk alongside them even when they're struggling. And then recognizing that as a parent, it's it's okay to need support too, right? So finding our own safe space as parents to talk, to rest, to be human is such an important piece in helping our child through their challenges because at the end of the day, it's not about them being bad. It's it's those, it's going back to that piece about their signals, right? And really leading with curiosity and compassion. Like, how do we how do we help our kids to feel safe enough to grow into themselves, right? Rather than shutting down their personal characteristics and who they are at their core.

Siblings, Equity, And Family Dynamics

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Right. And compassion looks like changing that languaging, right? Around they're just getting wanting their way or being manipulative, or you know, other words you might hear around defiance. But when we use compassion, it's understanding and you know, being empathetic towards okay, why is, you know, maybe the child or person struggling, what is it that they need versus focusing on, you know, what they're not doing, or really around discipline a lot of the time versus support. I think it's hard to always provide your child with such structure and stability. And especially when there are other children in the home that you're also needing to attend to and be mindful of their needs as well, their schedule. I can appreciate for a lot of families that's where there might be some challenges or struggle. You know, my child needs to learn to be flexible somehow, right? Or Yes, yeah. I can't provide this detailed structure because I'm not wired that way. So just wondering if you have any solutions there in working with parents.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

That is interesting. And so I grew up in a home. My brother is, he's also autistic. And growing up, he had a lot of behavioral needs, a lot of learning needs. And so I growing up, I think as a child, I often felt, I guess, cast to the side a little bit. And this is something I often talk to parents about as my experience as a sibling. So I kind of have this interesting vantage point is like I've been the sibling and now I'm the caregiver. And so I always encourage parents in those moments to have that really transparent conversation with their children about why things might look differently from child to child or why things might need to happen in a certain way. Right. And even if as a parent you're met with resistance, let's say from your other children, it's it's okay. And I think if I can offer any solace, it's that those children, like those siblings, are going to grow up to be some of the most compassionate, empathetic, and understanding individuals when in spaces with whether it's someone that's neurodivergent, whether it's someone who maybe just has a disability, because I think as much as as a child, there can be frustrations in why the parents are having to do something a certain way. It it just breeds so much understanding and care, right? Because we care about our siblings. At the end of the day, like I still joke with, you know, my brother's now and adults, and I do joke sometimes, but like we're still always gonna have that brother-sister relationship, right? Like we're gonna go toe-to-toe sometimes. But at the end of the day, I have the most empathy and most compassion for for my brother and for others that are in his situation that I know that I wouldn't carry with me if I didn't have walk that journey as Sister Michelle.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Right. So, yes, it's parents need that compassion for themselves and doing their best. What is helpful for caregivers to know in supporting their child?

Spotting Strengths In Neurodivergence

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Yeah, I love this question. And I think it kind of goes back to your earlier point, right? So if we're if we're trying to shift the conversation away from focusing on the hard stuff, the meltdowns, the transitions, all of that. And then we start to focus on the other side of it. I think as caregivers, when we start to notice and name the strengths that come with these differences, it not only boosts our child's confidence, but it also helps us shift as a parent from that frustration to appreciation, right? And even to my earlier point of talking a lot about like the strengths that can come with neurodivergence, I think that that's a huge takeaway for parents, right? So if we look at big feelings, for example, they can be overwhelming, but they also just mean that your child feels really deeply. And that emotional intensity can grow into empathy, passion, and a strong sense of justice. Kids who feel deeply often care deeply about others. And the need for routine or predictability, that same drive often translates into reliability and attention to details as they grow older. These are the kids who notice when something's off that everyone else seems to miss, or who thrive in a structured environment when others might get sloppy. When it comes to communication, a literal thinker might miss sarcasm, but they'll often be the one to give you honesty without filters. And you always know where you stand with them, right? And a child who gets absorbed into their special interests, that focus leads to incredible expertise. Many of our innovators, artists, problem solvers, they all they all got that by really diving in on what fascinated them the most in this world. And even when we look at sensory differences, it can be tough to manage those in daily life, but they also mean that your child is super attuned to the world in a unique way. So they notice the beauty and sound, color, texture, the things that we often overlook in the busyness of life. They may be more intuitive when something feels off in an environment. And I really feel like that sensitivity is such a gift. Even demand avoidance. I always turn this to the flip side, right? So when a children with PDA is having a strong sense of resistance, we can look at that as also having a strong sense of autonomy, creativity, and problem solving. These are the children that are often wired to think outside of the box and to push against that because I said so logic that we often put out there as adults and to carve their own path. And so while it requires flexibility on the caregivers' ends or on the teacher's ends, these same qualities are really what turns into that resilience and innovation as neurodivergent kiddos grow older. I just think of stimming. These kids, you know, when when we look at stimming, it's kids have really found ways to manage their own stress, their own anxiety, to look at their own energy and emotions, right? So, how is there something in this moment that can help me to feel grounded and to feel regulated? And I would say that that's like resourcefulness at its absolute finest. So even these so-called struggles with attention can carry a lot of strengths. So a child who drifts easily maybe someone who makes unexpected connections that others just don't see, or a child who hyperfocuses can accomplish more in their zone of interest than most adults can in a day. And so while the world might try to label our kiddos as or these behaviors as problematic, I think when we start to look at it as a set of strengths and differences, and when care when caregivers can start to look for those strengths and reflecting back onto them by saying things to their kids, like, I love how much you notice details or your creativity and solving problems blows me away. It really helps children just to look at their neurodivergence as a part of their identity rather than something to be ashamed of. And I, this is something that I really noticed with my daughter for a long period of time was this active resistance to the diagnosis until we got to a place of really normalizing and finding a lot of compassion, just even in our home for what that meant for her. And I think as an additional like resource for parents, I often, you know, if I'm seeing a teenager or a child in my practice, I often encourage parents to engage in emotion-focused family therapy. So seeing a therapist alongside their child who can really dive into the language that we can use with our children to break down some of that resistance and some of those barriers. I often encourage parents to read about PDA, to learn about neurodivergence, you know, and I often encourage people as well, like if you find yourself struggling, like look into the different mechanisms for support, right? And recognizing that asking for help is okay. So that might look like applying for funding or programming or camps or whatever that might be, but whatever it is as a parent that can kind of give you that time to rest and recharge and know that that's okay.

Services, Advocacy, And Letting Go

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Sometimes that can be hard for parents to let go of allowing, you know, child maybe to go to a camp or program the anxiety around something new, but it's it's helpful, of course, to access services and supports.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

And I think that there's a layer of vulnerability that comes as a parent of allowing your child to go out into the world that we know is not designed for neurodivergence, right? And to really be able to accept that they will learn along the way and they will be okay and they will learn self-advocacy as they grow. But it it is, it's hard to take a step back as a parent and kind of I'm gonna say let go of control a little bit because we really do get to a place of wanting to like our babies and we don't want people to pass judgments or kind of to the pieces we spoke about throughout labeling them as bad or la labeling them as defiant when we know those inherent strengths of our child.

Micro Self‑Care For Caregivers

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Um, Michelle, what advice would you give um for parents around self-care and what that looks like, right? Sometimes people think of, you know, taking an exercise class as self-care you know, a bubble band. But how would you define self-care?

Building Your Village And Resources

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Yeah, I love that because I I have this conversation with caregivers so often, and often it does come back to that. Like I don't have time for self-care. And so I'm a huge advocate of, I call it micro self-care. How do we implement the small things throughout our day that just bring us a sense of happiness, that bring us a sense of ability to rest and recharge? And so I think of when we're caring for a neurodivergent child, it's so easy to put ourselves last, especially when we do fully embrace some of these pieces I spoke about. If we're engaging in EFFT therapy, if we're really putting in the work as caregivers, it can feel tiring and it can feel like we are putting ourselves last. It's not, it's not easy. And I often say to parents that doing that work doesn't come second nature to a lot of people. So changing the way that we're asking a question from, you know, can you unload the dishwasher to, hey, I'm cleaning the kitchen and I noticed the dishwasher was full. Do you mind helping me? Those are things that do take active work and by virtue of that make us feel a little more tired at the end of the day. And so I think I often I'm faced with caregivers that feel guilty about thinking about their own needs or even just taking a break. They feel like that means that they're not doing enough for their child. But I think the real truth and something we don't talk about enough is that we just simply can't pour from an empty cup. So caring for a kid who is experiencing the world differently takes energy, both emotionally, physically, you know, even mentally. And if you're constantly running on empty, it's not just us that suffers as the caregiver. It's our patient starts to shorten, our stress rises, and our ability to respond to our child calmly with compassion and to be able to co-regulate alongside of them becomes more and more difficult. And that's not because a parent doesn't love their child, it's simply because we're human. And I think self-care, to your point, it doesn't necessarily mean big spa days or long vacations, although those can be lovely if we have the time and means to do that as well. But it really means building in small practices that allow us to refill our tank, right? So things like having a few minutes of quiet in the morning before everybody wakes up, reaching out to a friend who really just gets it, journaling, love journaling, moving your body, or simply allowing yourself to breathe when the day feels heavy. I think it also means giving ourselves permission to ask for help as caregivers, right? So I think of things like respite care, leaning on family, joining a support group, really having the people in our corner that get it can be so helpful. And I think it's it's shifting the view from it's not selfish to engage in self-care, but it's really it's an investment. We have to do it for our children, we have to do it for ourselves because a regulated caregiver can really help their child to feel more regulated. And I think the most important piece for me, and what I often say to parents, especially when we're working with children who struggle to regulate, when they struggle to set boundaries and prioritize themselves and what they need, when they see us as caregivers pausing to rest to set boundaries or to practice kindness towards ourselves, our kids inherently learn that it's okay for them to do the same. So then you go from not just surviving together, but actually teaching our children what it looks like to build a sustainable life, right? So for a neurodivergent kid, that that might mean having self-compassion if, let's say they're at a party with their friends, like a birthday party, and they're feeling overwhelmed, knowing that it's okay to step back and take five minutes to just kind of decompress before going back. And I think really just, you know, looking at it as self-care, not as a luxury, but really just as the foundation that allows us to show up fully and to love deeply and walk alongside our child through all of those ups and downs while still caring for ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Definitely. I think that's the important thing to remember it it is caring for you, right? And caregiver burnout is a real thing. Yeah. So, you know, it's where you kind of feel yourself shut down to feel irritable, really overwhelmed with things. So it's checking in with yourself as a parent and and Again, leaning on those supports, it's okay to say that you're overwhelmed or burnt out. I think that can be hard for parents. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Well, like often just think of, you know, I think raising kids as a as a whole is is hard, right? There's a reason that for so many years we have said it takes a village. And I think just really recognizing that, and you know, I think honoring that not everybody has a village and not everybody feels like they have those people to lean on. But how do we start to incorporate the pieces that allow us to still feel that sense of relief, right? So that might be respite care, that might be tapping into community programs, but just really building up, I would say, all of the supports around us so that we can really feel like we're our best self and we're showing up for our kids in the way that we want to.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

So just wondering if any caregivers or parents would be interested in reaching out to you, Connect for further support or advice or for counseling, where they would be able to find you.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Yeah, they could definitely find our information on our website, which is just harmonyhaven.ca. But then we can also be reached by email, which is info at harmonyhaven.ca. I'm currently exploring the idea of hosting a virtual parent support group where everyone can come together and going back to that shared lived experience and really just a place of validation and empathy and understanding. So if that's something people are interested in too, they can definitely reach out.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Okay, thank you very much for your time today and sharing so much information around how to support a child with needs involving neurodivergence. Thanks, Sabrina. I really appreciate the time.