Burnout, Boundaries, And Real Self-Care That Works With Jessica Batres RSW

We rethink self-care as a daily system, not a luxury, and explore how culture, gender roles, and perfectionism fuel burnout. Practical micro-habits, clear boundaries, and self-compassion turn rest into a reliable tool that sustains work, family, and emotional health.

• defining self-care across seven pillars
• spotting burnout signs and somatic red flags
• invisible load, gendered expectations, and time scarcity
• guilt reframes and “rest is productive” mindset
• micro-habits for busy days and overstimulation
• prioritizing tasks, realistic timelines, and saying no
• boundaries as self-care and preventing people-pleasing
• cultural barriers for children of immigrants
• mindfulness, presence, and discomfort tolerance
• therapy’s role in self-compassion and rewiring beliefs
• modeling healthy rest for kids and partners

Connect with Jessica: raícesflourishconsulin.ca • Instagram: @raices.flourish.consulent • TikTok: @raices.flourish

Transcript

Welcome And Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to What With Spring Say. I'm Spring Gog and I'm excited you're joining me today. In this podcast, I dive into mental health topics, topics on relationships and overall well-being. With over 20 years of experience as a licensed clinical social worker, I share insights and invite expert guests who are passionate about making a positive difference. I started this podcast because I was frustrated with the often misleading or recycled information and social media involving self-help and the mental health field. My goal is to provide you with genuine, useful content that's educational and informative. Thanks for tuning in. I hope you find our conversations both enlightening and empowering. I'm glad you're here. Hi, I'm welcome.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

We have today Jessica Batres, and she is a social worker. Welcome, Jessica. Hi, Tabrina. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited for you to join us about such important um topics. So the first one is talking about burnout and the importance of self-care and why we need to have self-care to transform our life and why it's so important. I think a lot of people these days practice forms of self-care as maybe it's a privilege or something nice to do once our big to-do list is completed. But so happy to have you on to talk about why it's so important to put ourselves first at times and what self-care looks like. So if you'd like to share a bit about yourself. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

My name is Jessica. Run a uh private practice uh um as a therapist. It's called Raíces Flourish. Um, I work with individuals that have anxiety and depression. Um, and I specialize with young adults that are also children of immigrants, a little bit like me. Second generation, I grew up um trying to fit in the Canadian culture and trying to fit in my parents' culture that had an impact on itself. When we're trying to fit into two cultures, you might not feel like we fit in either of them. And so, as I grew up, it as I found myself, I um took a bit off board and invented my own culture, I guess, my own values. And we're talking about self-care. It is very important and it can be very hard because it's not something that was always taught to us. I think about my parents, they were immigrants, they were always working, they were always trying to survive. And so I didn't get to see what self-care looked like because they were always on the go. And so I learned to always be on the go as well.

Defining Self-Care Beyond Products

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Right. As a way of coping, as a way of life, right? And making that sacrifice where you grew up seeing that it's very much the households focused around work and and and providing for the family. So, yes, I think many children whose families make the sacrifice to migrate to another country do experience that. And the expectations are set to work just as hard. And and then that internal struggle of maybe some stigma around if you don't. You're seen as lazy or not working hard enough, or some cultures don't um understand a Western world around stress or depression. Um, and so that can be hard as well, too, when we're juggling different cultures. So I wanted to talk firstly about if you could share, Jessica, what self-care is and what that's all about, what that looks like.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

So self-care is um way of preservation, taking care of yourself, putting yourself first so that you can be charged and then keep going with whatever it is that you need to keep going, whether it's work, your family, carrying over your body, and so on. But we often see self-care being commercialized nowadays, where self-care is the bubble bed, self-care is the gym, pilar is yoga, self-care is the green smoothie. And that's just a part of what self-care is because they are important, but they're not the whole pie. I like to talk about self-care as a pie that has many different pillars. And so when we talk about self-care, we also want to talk about physical self-care, social self-care, mental, spiritual, financial, professional, environmental. They're all different components of self-care, and they're all as important as uh the green smoothie or the bubble bus or the gym.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Right. So it's not necessarily a product, but looking at different aspects and parts of you as a self, as a whole, what nurtures you, what you know, your relationship is like with money, what you're having goals or plan around. Maybe it is enjoying and spending, or maybe it is saving for something long term. It's more around what do you need for physical or emotional health. Some people it might be what nurtures them is being around others. Other people, it might be some downtime or alone time to read a good book. So uh it's exploring what that is. And it's great how you brought up about recharging ourselves. And I like to joke and look at the analogy. We're so quick to make sure our phone battery is charged, our cell phone. But we don't make sure we are nourished or our batteries charge, right? So every time, you know, at night automatically, let's put the phone on the charger or we get home from work. But for ourselves, we don't make sure our own own battery, our own energy, our own, you know, need to connect to others. Spirituality is is being nourished.

The Phone Battery Analogy

Signs And Costs Of Burnout

SPEAKER_02 5:42

I love the analogy, yeah, with the the phone and the the battery, because it's something that we can all identify with. Like we all need our phone to keep going. Like it's part of, it's almost like a body part for most of us at this point. And so, yes, it's almost like a sin to forget to charge your phone. Like, how am I gonna function tomorrow if my phone is not charged? That's the first thing you're gonna do in the morning if you forgot to charge it. And for us, like he said, if you think about soft care as recharging your battery, it's very common that we are gonna keep going with the battery on red and signals like you need to recharge, you need to recharge, and we might ignore them. And at some point you will be depleted. Your body at some point will tell you, I don't have any battery percentage left. Like you're done. And a lot of times we talk about burnout, that's how people find out that their battery is dead. They end up at the hospital with high symptoms, they end up having a stick time off work, um, they end up with high symptoms of anxiety, depression, or something else because they didn't take the time to recharge their battery. And like you said, it's not always priority or number one in our list. It's something that often gets pushed. It's almost an um, if I get to, I'll do it. But it's not number one in your list. And it should be because we can keep giving or doing things with an empty cup or an empty battery.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Right. And it's really helpful to explain what are those symptoms, right? Of burnout and what that looks like. Like you said, it can affect our immune system, frequent colds, right? Not being able to maybe feel faster like we're used to, feeling run down, fatigue, uh, like you said, experiencing symptoms of low mood, low energy, anxiety, sometimes just kind of disconnecting, feeling yourself shut down emotionally, right? Or mentally drained. You're feeling, you know, sometimes people might share feeling numb or just flat, right? Not really happy, not really sad. So those are definitely some of the symptoms, headaches, stomach aches, different somatic complaints that we can have as well, too. And uh just wanted to touch on for women, exploring what those barriers are and the message that we get from society for many different cultures.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Yeah. So time might be a barrier. We know that women still nowadays we work and then we also take care of the kids. It's still the majority of the work is still on us. I think about little stuff where my husband is very involved and he tries to help uh as much as he can. And I say help and I shouldn't, he does what he's supposed to be doing, and there's little things where society is gonna push back, very simple. It's we need a doctor's appointment for a specialist. And my my husband called, he let them know contact me. This is my number, this is my email, and they still called me. Even though he was the one that made the call and made sure that he they had all the information, they still called me and I told them I'm away for for work on a work trip. He's off this week, he has the time, please call him. And they never did.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Interesting.

Gendered Roles And Invisible Load

SPEAKER_02 8:57

And it's it's society will push back on stuff like that because they're not used to dad being at the forefront and doing what they're supposed to be doing. So even for me, like the fact that I have to push back is so work while I'm already busy with my full-time job. They could have very well called that, but no, that for some reason they chose to call me. And it it happens all the time. Like, even if I put him number one to reach out, also call mom. So it's very common. And even if you're not a parent like I am, you might be a daughter. And so again, it'll be you that probably takes on most of the responsibility to take care of your parents. And so society itself is always still, I don't want to say always, because I'm hoping that it's going to change, but today they still see us very much as the primary caregiver. And so anything that has to do with family, your kids, your parents, friends, or whatsoever, we're always gonna be like the first one to jump and do it because we've been taught to do it. I don't wanna say it's our nature because men can learn to do it as well. It's just that it's been taught to us, and so we'll be the first one to jump and do it.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Right. So the expectation, especially, you know, in Western societies, for women to be, you know, what's nurturing and and the role still is very much the caregiver. And and that can create burnout as well, because we're continuing to juggle work and all those other responsibilities. It's been, I think, very challenging for as a couple to divide roles, right? Um, there's always one person that's sort of designated as that caregiver and not feeling able to not let go of that role or get permission to put yourself first. So the barriers are not feeling like there is time and putting everything else first. Any other barriers?

Guilt, Time, And Tiny Self-Care

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Well, I think there's also the guilt part or how it might be hard for us to rest. There might be a guilt when you're trying to take a break and take time for yourself. What it is, I'm gonna be away from the kids so I can take care of myself. There might be some guilt being away from the kids because I'm the mom and I should be there. There might be some guilt because again, it wasn't taught for us, and sometimes it's being seen as laziness. And so the moment that you sit down, you start thinking there's probably something I could be doing, where it's the dishes, that pantry that's probably a mess, some kids' work assignment or whatsoever, there's always a list of things to do that is never ending. And so the moment that you sit down, it might be hard to just take a break and take it for yourself because there's still like the mental load that keeps going. And so being able to just take a pause and try and not think about it is hard. But if we don't do it, we deplete. And because self-care has been so commercial because self-care has been commercialized in the way that we think it has to be like this bubble bat or the spa, that that can be time consuming. And so, how am I gonna fit that into my schedule when there's so much to do? When the reality is that self-care can be done in very small pieces throughout your day so that you can you can keep going. It can be very small as taking a break, just shutting everything down, taking five minutes to breathe in silence. That can be a form of self-care, a very quick, very small five minutes for your day. And that can simply help to help you keep going. I think for me, sometimes I get overstimulated. And so that five minutes might be just enough for my brain to just slow down and be able to think more clearly and then keep going my task without uh feeling rushed or doing things fast and then doing them in a way that might not be so helpful. Help.

Practical Office And Workday Tips

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Right. It's really important to be able to take that pause to reflect and see what's going on for us internally. Noticing if we're feeling overwhelmed in why, right? So it's it's helpful um, whether it's doing a quick breathing app or going for a quick walk, something just to sort of um be able to be more present and check in with yourself to see what you need, right? At in that moment. Sometimes we own other people's anxiety or stressors too, and and don't even know it, right? So what what would be some helpful self-care tips other than taking that time to pause and check in?

Expectations, Perfectionism, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Um, there's a lot that you can do. I think when I used to work at an office, there's some days that I was a bit more anxious than others. And so I would sometimes go and find a cubicle that would be for only one person so that I could shout everything out. There's the emails that keep coming, and there's the people that come and talk to you, and then it and then there's the meetings, and so sometimes like just that day in the cubicle for me. I might look to others, although my coworkers never complain. But I sometimes worry, like, do I look like I'm being rude to them because I'm like hiding this cubicle? But that's what I needed at the time to bring that overstimulation down to take care of myself. And sometimes I couldn't find a cubicle, so often I would use my headphones that were supposed to be for call, but I would use them and then listen to my music. Um, and then sometimes people wouldn't approach me because they thought that I was on a call until they would come and like um knock on my shoulder, like, are you in a call? I'm like, no, it's okay, you can talk to me. I just need listening to my music. Some I know that some people can't work with music. For me, it helps me a lot. I love working and listening to my music. And if it's something that I don't really have to concentrate, or it's like sometimes I had to do that. So I would be able to do that while watching a show, for example, because some of it was very repetitive. So again, just little ways to take care of myself. But then there's other ways. If if you know that you're gonna have a day that's like very charged and that maybe you were more stressful, maybe pack your favorite lunch. That can be a way to take care of yourself. That can be something that brings down some of the stress when you're eating something that you enjoy, that you love, that will change your mood. It's very simple, very small, but it's a way to take care of yourself. It's taking care of your body, taking care of your mind. Going for a walk, like you said, sometimes you get overwhelmed with or you get annoyed or so many emails or something that frustrated you. Um, it's happened to me. Sometimes I just need to go for a walk. And then when I came back, I'm like, okay, I know what to do now. I can actually make a plan, write down what I need, and work, whether you're at I'm I say the office, and I work from home for a long time. So for me, I had to change my mentality where it's not because my computer is not open that it doesn't mean that I'm not working. So often what would help me is that because I I had like a long to-do list, I had to prioritize what is it that I want to do today, what's more important and what can wait. And so I didn't always open my computer at nine o'clock in the morning. Sometimes I would just sit down and I like have it on agenda with like a to-do list for every day, and it actually has like this little uh boxes on the side so I can actually check it when I'm done. So I would often at 9 o'clock, I would sit on my desk and I would arrange my day. How am I gonna do this? What's priority? What if I can get to something today, can I put it for tomorrow, sometime in the week? And so sometimes there's stuff that I would put in for several days because I knew that maybe I wouldn't be able to finish it on that day, but I knew that I had time in the rest of the week to do it. So I wouldn't feel pressure to fill finish it on the day off. And so again, there's small things that you can do to make sure that you're coping throughout the day. And I say coping, it may be heavy, but sometimes when there's so much going on and everything on your life is go, go, go, you want to make sure that you're setting yourself up for success, whatever way that means for you.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

It's not just taking time to reflect, but then creating some sort of action plan and and um finding ways to execute things. I also find too ways to release that energy is helpful, whether it's movement. Um, you can mention going for a walk. If it's, you know, you work at an office or uh, you know, another place and you can move around, take the stairs, go get a drink of water. Um, that can be helpful. Get out of that space and and be able to reflect. And it's great how you highlighted too, giving yourself permission that something may take a bit longer and setting up that time for it without having high expectations that might set yourself up for failure or feel self-defeated.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Yes. I think the expectations is a big one. I know that some sense is I can sometimes I can be a perfectionist. And so I will I did struggle sometimes with feeling guilty because uh I didn't finish whatever work on time. And I've also had supervisors that have told me, you need to tell me if you what you need. If you don't tell me what you need, then I'm gonna tell you what you need. But I've had that struggle sometimes to identify like what is my need, and that requires self-reflection. Like, how long do I actually need to do this? And then you need to feel comfortable and have a supportive employer where you can go and say, This is not gonna take me a week. This might take me two to three weeks. Um, so we can either take some stuff off my plate or um we need to adjust the timeline.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

And being okay with asking for help as well, right? So sometimes be take on so much or say yes to look like a team player, to be available and accessible, to be that hard worker, but then it can kind of be sabotaging when people don't know what we're juggling, how many, you know, pieces there are that we're doing in projects, and then the expectation is still to have something completed on time. So that can be work against us because we get burnt out and then people are not satisfied. Um, so it's also about setting that boundary as well, too.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Yeah. Boundaries in itself is a form of self-care. And you have to know what your needs are so you can please those boundaries, but it definitely is also a form of self-care. If you keep saying yes and you're stretching, you're you're stretching yourself out over and over again, there might be nothing left to deal or manage with. That would be that in itself will be very hard because for someone that is, for example, like a people pleaser or somebody that always says yes or that wants to help, once you get to that stage where you can't do anything anymore will be the harsher part because not being able to do these things at all uh will bring up um those high symptoms of depression, anxiety, or any other type of mental health. And then you'll go and hopefully have some therapy and go into them. But we wanna like hopefully start working on those before they get high, and then it takes longer to recover from.

Cultural Barriers And Reframing Rest

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Right. It becomes a a crisis before things are are dealt with, right? And wanting to be more preventative and um taking some of those helpful steps and doing some of those helpful self-care tips. I'm wondering if you could share what some of the cultural challenges are or differences to self-care practice.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Some cultural challenges, um, I think I'll go back to it wasn't taught for us. I think that nowadays when I want to rest, uh, for a long time I had to trick my brain into saying rest is productive so that I could take some of that guilt away and actually take care of myself. But it was like five minutes on the couch or me reading. Sometimes I will prefer an audiobook so that I can clean the house at the same time, so I can feel less guilty around it. I can do something that I like while I'm also taking stuff off the list. Um, but being able to recognize rest and self-care as a need and a way to again keep being productive and keep doing the things that you need to do can be an obstacle in itself. Um, because it wasn't taught to us. And maybe your parents nowadays, they still look at you like, what do you mean you're gonna go on vacation to a different country than ours and see the family? It can be, it can be the very small things like that, but and I think the guilt behind it is what needs to be addressed and work with rather than not doing the things that you want to do to feel joy and to feel better and to take care of yourself. And so sometimes we need to look at what what is it that I can rest, what is it hard for me, and we need to be comfortable with whatever answer might come up. And it's not to judge our parents or anybody else in our family or even our own culture, it's just learning. And as human beings, we evolve. And so maybe that didn't work for our parents. That doesn't mean that we want to skip it. It's okay for us to change and to have different needs than they did and to build our lives and live it in a different way.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Right. So finding supports, if it's maybe not within the family, that's where a counselor could help, just to process some of that guilt or whatever other feelings you may have around rest, relaxation, hobby, self-care, and finding ways to not get burnt out, and also modeling for maybe children or others too, a healthier way of coping with things.

Modeling Self-Care For Kids

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Yeah, yeah. I think about my kids when it's bedtime. Uh sometimes they come down and they're watch, they they know that I'm watching TV and so they come and mama, I want to watch with you. Then I look at them, you never want to see the shows that I want to see during the day, but for some reason, you want to see them now that it's bedtime. And so I often put down that bond. It says my time, I wanna be with myself, I want to watch my shows. Sometimes I let them come. And I have sometimes the tradition with my son that we like watching Harry Potter movies, maybe once a year when he's struggling to fall asleep. But I repeat it, I say it often when it's bedtime, like you're going to bed, and I'm taking time for myself before I go to bed. So, no, we're not gonna be playing, no, we're not gonna go watch TV together. Kids always have a bunch of excuses before going to bed. But then I always remind them, like, I promise you, once you go to bed, in a couple minutes, you're gonna fall asleep. Because they always do. They fall asleep in a couple minutes, they don't recognize that they're actually tired, but they usually fall asleep within a couple minutes. And it for me, it's really like it's if it's been over an hour and they're still awake, okay, come on, and maybe this will help you unwind. But yeah, uh, my kids know like when it's bedtime, mama has her time for herself and she's not really gonna care if I keep going down. But I'm hoping that that will teach I have two boys, so I'm hoping that that will, if they go with a female partner, that they they'll know that it's okay for her to have her time and that uh she needs that time to unwind or to do whatever it is that she needs to do to uh recharge her battery.

How Therapy Supports Self-Care

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Right. So modeling that adults relax and unwind and seek out pleasure as well, too, right? And and their own time versus maybe what wasn't modeled or shown before. Yeah, so that's really important for them to see that self-care being practiced by by a caregiver as well. Um, what are some ways that therapists can help around practicing self-care? We sort of talked about counseling can help to process any feelings of guilt, any maybe if there's issues around boundaries and how to set that, any other ways that that therapy can help involving self-care practices.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

I think like you mentioned, there's the guilt that we talk about. There might be guilt, there might be shame around it, and so we do want to process thora about where they come from, why they show up, um, and then see what way we can bring in self-compassion. Uh, because oftentimes if we always saw resting or taking care of yourself as something to feel guilty or ashamed about, we kind of need to rewire our brain to say that's not dangerous, that's actually very helpful. And so that self-compassion will come in and will help you navigate it and see how you can apply it to yourself so that you can actually rest without having shame or guilt around it. That would be one thing. Like we wanna process the emotions, we wanna help you recognize what your needs are because we all have different needs, and so self-care will look different for everybody. Um, we talk about, for example, spiritual health can be, yes, going to church, prayer, your community, but it can also mean something simple, like reconnect it with your roots, having time with yourself. It's different for everybody. Um, for me, often it's writing that's where I get to hear myself and let the anxiety talk, um, have more emotions coming in and process them. And so it looks different for everybody. We want to find out like what is the software that works for you and what are your needs? Because again, they may be different. And so depending on your needs, your software would look different. And obviously, when you come into counselings, we create a safe space where you can say those things that you want to you have maybe taught, but don't want to say it out loud, where they can actually be said and be heard without any judgment, where we can validate your emotions and help you navigate them and understand them instead of pushing them away.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Right. So counseling can help process feelings, maybe where patterns have come up around self-care or the narrative around it and belief can help with looking at those pillars, like you've mentioned. Um, and and finding ways of of coping and in continuing, despite a busy schedule, to have self-care practices, which is important. And as well, that self-compassion piece, I think we're always hard on ourselves. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

We definitely we will always treat ourselves the harshest, and other people will. And so self-compassion is something that has to be, we need to learn how to apply it to ourselves because again, uh, our brain might see as a danger, and so we have to rewire it so that it doesn't see as a danger anymore, but sometimes it's a need. Like I said, that's why I had to treat my brain to rest is productive. Rest is not dangerous, it's okay, all we'll be fine. We need to rest to be productive. That's where the rewiring comes in. And then we want to apply self-compassion so that we can learn how to not be harsh in ourselves with ourselves so that we can keep applying that soft care, not just for a day or two, but long term.

Mindfulness And Being Over Doing

Connect With Jessica And Closing

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Right. Rest can feel so uncomfortable for people, right? Along with boredom, uh, you know, needing to do something, that action piece. And that's what I like about introducing mindfulness, because it's about just being, right? Just being present, being in the moment, um, being in nature, whatever that looks like, and feeling grounded and anchored. And I think that can be really uncomfortable. So counseling can help um, you know, uh work through that uh uncomfortableness. A lot of great errors we touched on self-care today, I was just wondering how people can connect with you or reach you online if they're interested in either maybe working with you on self-care or learning more about how you can help in juggling uh different cultures. Learn about any other services that you have.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Yeah. There's my website with raíces flourishconsulin.ca. There's also my Instagram, which is at raícesperiod flourish period consulent, and then there's my TikTok, which is at raíces period flourish. Um, so different social media and my website. I hope you found me, and I I hope that you reach out and that we can talk about it, process, pack. I'd be very excited to listen to you and do the work. Yes, it's really important.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Thank you so much for your time today. I'm you know excited to learn about your services and supports as well. I think it's so important to have services in the community that help with, you know, people from different cultures, backgrounds, and walks of life. So I'm glad to have you on today. Thanks again. Thank you, Serene.