Choosing You Over Approval: Healing the Need to Please with Haley Moore MSW RSW

We explore how people pleasing lowers anxiety in the moment but erodes identity and energy over time, and we outline practical steps to set boundaries without losing kindness. Haley Moore shares roots in fawning, self-sabotage patterns, and skills to build a steadier self.

• defining people pleasing as a behavioral pattern
• how anxiety relief reinforces approval seeking
• identity costs and the loss of self-knowledge
• childhood roots, fawning, and conditional love
• self-sabotage, burnout, and perfectionism links
• the selfishness spectrum and healthy balance
• scripts to pause, set limits, and say no
• building confidence and accepting help
• starting small, practicing in low-stakes spaces
• therapy as a safe place to rehearse boundaries

You can learn more about Haley and her team on their website. It's www.therapyunintrupted.ca or on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at therapyuninterrupted. We're also promoting our affordable therapy program right now because we have two new students who are on our team and accepting clients. So you can read more about that on our website as well.

Transcript

Welcome And Mission

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to What Would Sabrina Say? I'm Sabrina Gong, and I'm excited you're joining me today. In this podcast, I dive into mental health topics, topics on relationships and overall well-being. With over 20 years of experience as a licensed clinical social worker, I share insights and invite expert guests who are passionate about making a positive difference. I started this podcast because I was frustrated with the often misleading or recycled information in social media involving self-help and the mental health field. My goal is to provide you with genuine, useful content that's educational and informative. Thanks for tuning in. I hope you find our conversations both enlightening and empowering. I'm glad you're here. Hi everyone. We'd like to welcome Haley Moore with us today. She's a registered social worker. Thank you, Haley, for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

I'd like to share a little bit about yourself as we jump into talking about today's topic um, how to choose you over approval from others and the need to please.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yeah, so thank you again for having me. I'm really excited to talk about this. I think it's a huge, huge thing that impacts so many people. But a little bit about myself first. So I am a registered social worker, like you said. I'm from Ontario and I'm in Canada. I am also the clinic director of therapy at Instructed. So we run a virtual mental health practice supporting individuals, couples, and groups within Ontario. We work with people who are managing anxiety, depression, trauma, relational issues, all kinds of stuff. People pleasing absolutely comes into that. Our team has other registered social workers on it as well as registered psychotherapists. And we also support our affordable therapy program every year from September to April, which houses student clinicians to access therapy at an affordable rate.

Defining People Pleasing

SPEAKER_01 1:49

It's great to hear that there are affordable, affordable options for people in Ontario. So why don't you jump into what is people pleasing? I think a lot of times people feel that being nice, there's no harm to it. And there are some harmful symptoms, experiences we can have in always putting other people first and their needs first. So just based on your experience in helping others, what is that to you in terms of people pleasing?

Anxiety And Short-Term Relief

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Yeah, great question. I mean, you kind of already said it. So I do define people pleasing as a pattern of behavior is when someone consistently engages in that behavior of putting themselves at the bottom and prioritizing someone else's needs. So you might be a people pleaser if you sacrifice yourself to keep the peace, when you apologize excessively, if you rarely disagree with other people or express express anything critical of someone, when you say yes to things you don't want to do. Like all of these things can be people pleasing behaviors, only being accepted if you meet other people's needs or thinking that you have no needs. Like you you are unable to put yourself and what you need at the top ever. Now I think I want to just go into like why is this so harmful? Because I know you mentioned there are some harmful pieces, but people don't actually see the harm originally because it actually is an anxiety-lowering behavior. So our anxiety's job is to keep us safe from real or perceived threats. And it essentially sends out these warning signals to tell us that something could hurt us and try to keep us away from that thing. So for people who are people pleasers, the anxiety warning signs go off when someone could get mad at you or be disappointed you in some way. And when you do something to please that other person, the anxiety actually dissipates because the threat has been avoided. So it's actually something that feels better in the short term. The other person is happy, your anxiety is lowered, we move on. But what's not helpful is the long-term impact of people pleasing. So when you consistently put someone else's needs ahead of your own, you're not only devaluing yourself in your own mind, but you're also depriving yourself of having your needs acknowledged or met by yourself or anyone else. And if you always default to prioritizing other people's needs, wants, you might not even learn what you actually do want, which can actually change not only your identity development, but your sense of self because you've actually suppressed you.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Right. So in having anxiety and reducing it by being very hyper-vigilant aware of everybody else's needs, we don't learn what our needs are or develop our own identity, our own values, what we like, our interests, because we're adapting it to who's around us or others. Yeah, exactly. And appreciate for some people, maybe perhaps people pleasing behaviors happen in certain environments like the workplace. That might be harder to say no, to feel comfortable, to be assertive or ask for needs to be met, right? So there might be pressures in engaging in more boundary-setting behavior in different environments, or maybe perhaps it's a family household. Um, so I was wondering why would someone engage in these behaviors and in different environments?

Identity Costs And Self-Loss

Roots In Survival And Fawning

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah, another great question. Of course, when I spoke about the anxiety process before, what I was really talking about is this evolutionary drive to survive. It's our body's core responsibility to survive, right? That is really the only thing that matters at the end of the day. So if you think about it from a cave person point of view, if you are disliked in those times by the group, you would actually be ostracized, exiled, and you would die in isolation. So, of course, I don't think that anyone today is being actively motivated by a potential death threat if someone doesn't like them, but I think the more primal parts of our brains haven't necessarily updated that lesson in the feelings that are associated with this fear of social rejection. So, in more modern terms, it doesn't feel good to feel disliked. We do have a big visceral reaction to the perception of being disliked in any way. This is especially true when we're in a formation of our identity phase, like through our childhood and young adulthood. And we really do want to feel a sense of belonging. We want to fit in, we want to be liked, and we feel like the whole world weighs on this. We're often still figuring out who we are. So it's we're super susceptible to being, you know, pushed into decisions that we think other people will want us to make, or mostly making decisions based on a desire for approval or to avoid conflict. People pleasing usually comes from this insecurity and a longing to be cared for. And somewhere deep down, we think that if we're able to take care of other people's needs enough, then eventually they might take care of us. So, like you mentioned, this is absolutely something that can happen in many situations. It can happen at work, it can happen at home, it can happen in friendships, there's tons of things that can then bring this type of activity up. But really, everything comes back to childhood. There's a huge connection between people pleasing and the trauma response is fawning. So instead of fight, flight-freeze, which I think most of us have have heard about that threat response, fawning happens when people learn from a young age that if they calm and appease an unsafe person by meeting their needs, this can sometimes avoid the negative consequences that they could face, like abuse. So this can happen a lot in a child's environment and it creates this short-term sense of safety where the child feels in control, which then forms this behavior over time. The other thing that can come up in childhood is when a parent is unavailable emotionally or has love that is very conditional on the child's behavior, the child also learns that they can behave in certain ways to get love and attention, which then evolves in adulthood. So it becomes an expectation, a habit. And when you behave in certain ways consistently, then it works. You don't get judged, you don't have a lot of conflict, you don't feel like you're being disliked by people, you actually start to believe this is normal and what actually you prefer to do.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Right. So fawning, I think, has only been recently discussed. And before that, there's lots of talks about how we get into survival mode with our nervous system, like you said, the fight, fight and freeze response. And now we have a better understanding of how when we're always seeking to meet other people's needs, how that is a protective factor as well, too. And interestingly, so subconsciously we are trying to get those same needs met and reciprocated. And unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way. Or sometimes, again, it's a boundaries cross feeling taken advantage of, or feeling hurt and not getting that uh need met in this way in this regard.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

So, what would self-sabotaging behaviors look like for someone who is constantly making sure others are doing okay in their environment?

Modern Triggers At Work And Home

SPEAKER_00 8:44

So self-sabotage happens when someone behaves in a way that's at odds with their well-being or success in some way. Essentially, it's the idea of shooting yourself in the foot that kind of sums up self-sabotage. And self-sabotage overlaps a lot with people pleasing in that you often sabotage what you need when you can consistently engage in people-pleasing behaviors. So this is the classic people-pleasing situation where you say yes to picking your friend up at the airport when you're already swarmed with work in your own personal to-do list because you feel like you can't say no as a people pleaser, or saying yes often puts you in these impossible situations, which can lead to this tandem experience of people pleasing becoming a perfectionistic tendency. So you can't say no because of this fear of disappointing other people, and you crave external validation and approval so much to prove that you're good enough. So you strive to juggle all of these different things, even though it's really impossible in a lot of situations, and you end up feeling overworked and overwhelmed in the process. So when people please often, they often do self-sabotage because they're completely exhausted from trying to do everything all the time to the best degree possible. And when you're exhausted and overwhelmed, you actually can't operate your best. That often inevitably leads to something going wrong and those feared consequences that your people pleasing was trying to protect you from can actually happen anyway. The other self-sabotaging behavior that takes place on a higher level is that by perpetually focusing on other people, you are not loving yourself. You're likely to be really unaware of what lights you up, what you need, what you prefer, what you truly want. And that lack of confidence in yourself and the low self-esteem that's usually connected to people pleasing can actually lead to toxic, dependent, or abusive relationships and workplace roles and can lead to mental health concerns like anxiety and depression. And although it's never impossible, of course, this lack of relationship with yourself and lack of understanding can make it really hard to develop that understanding later in life, too.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Right. And I think it's, you know, helpful to understand and notice that it's we're, you know, it's depriving ourselves of needs, of love, of experiencing what we deserve long term, just for the short-term, small exchange of a situation or experience. And it feels so draining for people that can cause burnout. And so, how could someone change these behaviors and still be a nice, kind, helpful person?

Self-Sabotage And Perfectionism

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yeah. And this is what everyone's afraid of. If I stop people pleasing, then am I therefore not nice anymore? Am I not being kind? Am I not thinking about other people? I'm no longer empathetic. And that's just absolutely not true. Those two things do not go together. So I want to bring up two really important concepts here first. So the first is that no one is responsible for you but yourself. And this applies to other people too. So this does not apply to dependents. So young children or older adults that need attention and care. But outside of that, everyone is responsible for themselves. This doesn't mean you can't help other people, consider other people's feelings, take care of people, do nice things. But it's very different when you are choosing to do something for someone versus feeling obligated to do it. You are not being unkind if you say no to something that you don't want to do or that could be harmful to yourself. You're not being unkind when you tell someone something they're doing is hurting you. You're not being unkind when you spend more time meeting your own needs, to have less time to do things for other people, but you're actually a better person in the process. I think the big point I want to point out here is that most people will ask you for help when they need it. You don't have to anticipate other people's needs, and it's not your job to take care of their emotional response. The other idea that I think is really important is the selfishness spectrum. So if you put narcissism and complete disregard for other people on one end and selflessness and complete disregard for the self on the other, selfishness is actually found in the middle. And that's where we want to be. That's the goal. Being selfish means that you consider yourself, your needs, and your preferences before you make any decisions. When you consider yourself before acting, you're much less likely to build resentment towards others that you're caring for over time because you actually feel fulfilled, your needs are met, and you're making active decisions about when you want to prioritize someone else's needs over your own. When you're being selfish, you make sure that your needs are met so you can actually get back to more people around you when your battery is full. And so when you're able to remind yourself that other people are not your responsibility and you are actually a better service to other people and the world when you're being selfish, you start to see that being a kind person is actually showing up as your best self. And that means taking care of you while allowing other people to have autonomy and choosing to help people when you actually have the energy to do that. So change takes time and practice, but a way to building confidence in anything is through a commitment over time to that cause and a repeated practice to build competence in that skill. Committing to yourself and breaking out of people pleasing is an ongoing choice.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Right. And I think it's helpful, and this is where therapy can can be, you know, come into play and be helpful around processing those feelings of obligation and guilt and being comfortable with choice, right? Choosing to be nice and not the nicest person on your work team, the nicest person in your family and um in the room, right? So this is about just being okay and accepting that you have needs and letting go of that obligation for everyone. How can one learn ways of coping? How can one learn for it to look different?

The Healthy Selfishness Spectrum

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah, so one of the biggest pieces of this is actually building self-confidence. This is a missing link for a lot of people who engage in people pleasing behaviors because they've actually built their self-worth based on their ability to take care of other people and be useful. And if they pull back from doing things for others, it can actually take a hit on their self-worth, unless they've been building this through other avenues. So working with a therapist can absolutely be helpful in learning how to consider themselves and learn more about themselves and have more self-respect. But even just, you know, engaging in less people-pleasing behaviors can over time build self-confidence naturally too. Once you build a better self-concept that's more reliably based on who you are versus what you do for other people, you can also kind of manage the anxiety that can come with challenging these behaviors and having people's responses to your changing behaviors, which can definitely be difficult. Therapy can be really helpful for noticing those behaviors that are forged in survival in your childhood. Long ongoing process. Of course, it's not as easy as it might sound. So working to understand what actually is happening can be a really helpful process before you try to jump in and start changing everything. Another thing that's really helpful is understanding your intentions before you help someone else. So when you are a people pleaser and you first start doing this exercise, you can see the tendency to really just want validation or approval and not necessarily just wanting to actually support that person. So actually unpacking what is it that I'm trying to get from this experience? Do I really want to help this person or am I hoping that my help will actually lead to them acknowledging me, validating me, comforting me, meeting my need in return? And something that's I think really helpful and one of my favorite exercises to do with clients that are unlearning people pleasing behaviors is to practice saying no when things are asked of them. And I know that sounds scary. So I don't actually ask anyone to say no outright, but using something that's a little bit more passive. So for example, if someone says, Hey, can you help me move on Saturday? The response automatically for a people pleaser would be, yeah, of course. What time do you need me there? But instead a response could be, let me take it my take a look at my calendar and get back to you, right? Or yes and yes and I'll only be able to come for about an hour, right? So whenever you add the yes and you have some kind of parameter that will make it easier for you to actually engage in it. And it sets a boundary so that you're not available for the entire, you know, 12 hours that someone is needing you. One of the last things is just, you know, when we're when we're actually people pleasing and trying to unlearn this, people are notorious for not accepting help, not asking for help because they're so afraid that having their needs met makes them a burden. So it's something to really practice to start to ask for help, accept help when it's given, and sit with the feelings that come up for that. It can be really hard to change and untangle people pleasing behaviors and still feel safe. And sometimes a therapist might be helpful to holding the discomfort with you as you establish this new way of engaging in the world.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Right. So therapy can really be helpful in many different ways here in addressing, you know, the need to please others from understanding where these behaviors, where these protective factors come from, how to reduce anxiety in a different way, having relationships with others where we can practice those boundaries and saying no in different ways. I I really appreciate Kristen's work around mindfulness space and tools she has.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Absolutely. Yeah. There's a there's a ton of great work out there. Um, but it's it's really an individual process of what what feels important to you, what what resonates with you. And sometimes that's work you can do on your own, and sometimes you need support, and that's totally okay either way.

Practical Boundaries And Saying No

SPEAKER_01 18:09

And where you want to start, right? So uh sometimes I work with people around, okay, if we're not comfortable saying no in the workspace, where are we comfortable practicing saying no with it acquaintances or neighbor, a friend, where you know, helping to see that it actually isn't a big deal. They did respect that boundary. They're still our friends, still appreciate us and value that connection.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Yeah, exactly. Start small.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Yes. So just wondering if people are interested in learning more about uh Haley, how therapists can help, or maybe how your practice can help, where they can reach you and find you online.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Yeah, absolutely. So you can learn more about our team and what we do on our website. It's www.therapyunintrupted.ca or on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at therapyuninterrupted. We're also promoting our affordable therapy program right now because we have two new students who are on our team and accepting clients. So you can read more about that on our website as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Thank you so much again for joining us today. Thanks so much, Sabrina.