A Novelist Maps Higher Consciousness Through Fiction With International Renowned Author Louis Gale, MA (PhD candidate)

I talk with author,academic (PhD candidate) and peer support specialist Louis Gale about turning psychosis, silence, and recovery into a bold fiction series that tries to make inner experience readable. We also dig into consciousness studies, habit change, misinformation, and why peer led support can meet people where they are.
• building a six book series with continuous pages and chapters across volumes 
• using stream of consciousness to portray psychosis with fidelity 
• questioning what “fiction” means when history and memory are mediated by books 
• living through a year of silence and the impact on family 
• writing as therapy through expressive arts and radical honesty 
• studying Consciousness Psychology Transformation and applying it to habits and addiction 
• social media effects on attention and cognition plus the danger of recycled self help advice 
• political polarization and the need to trust trained expertise 
• NAMI peer support and why lived experience can change first response care 

Google Louis Gale. The books are available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and anywhere you buy books, including indie bookstores. You can also find Louis Gale on LinkedIn.

Books : A Written Self -Portrait On Psychosis, A Written Self- Portrait On Tragedy 

Note: * Some mention of violence in the book at earlier part of interview. Might be sensitive for some listeners*

Transcript

Sabrina Duong (00:45)
Hi, welcome to What Would Sabrina Say? I'm your host Sabrina Duong, licensed clinical social worker. Here with me today have Louis Gale. Louis I'm so excited to hear about your journey, your books, internationally, known and just sharing about your experience and his groundbreaking work on higher consciousness

So thank you for joining us.

Louis Gale (01:05)
Yeah, well, ⁓

first, thank you for having me. I mean, the way I'm thinking about it is even if just one person hears this and resonates with it and finds that it could potentially be transformational, like that to me is like, yes, if two people do it, my gosh, know? So mean, obviously the numbers can increase from there. But yeah, mean, that's the thing is like you kind of hit the nail on the head. It is a volume series that I'm working on.

Two are available now, but I'm planning six. And so the story itself is like one giant story. So when you read the first book, there's not even chapters yet, because chapter one doesn't start until the second book. So the first book is very stream of consciousness. I want you inside the mind of the character, the first book being on psychosis. What are the thoughts? Now, obviously, the first book is a novella, but you can't just have one giant stream of consciousness. Like even right now, my stream of consciousness is aware that there's books behind me. My stream of consciousness is aware there's a lip, you know, there's all these different settings. So if you were reading a book that was heavily focused on stream of consciousness, you still need to know what's going on. So that's where the fictional world gets to take place. But what's really exciting is that, the page numbers will continue. The chapters will continue.

So I'm a hundred pages into the third book, but technically that's still like 500 pages in because from the first book to the second book, page numbers, chapters, they all continue. So that's kind of been fun to piece together this big giant book. It's like a never ending story. And it's also interesting because what I thought might be at one moment, the characters of the book sometimes will point me in different directions.

have this character that is 100 million years old in terms of consciousness. But it's like, what would be the math as a writer? How can I make that to a reader make sense? Create these rules. Like when you're reading Harry Potter, you're not thinking, wait a second, brooms can't fly. I don't buy this. Like you accept the rules of wizardry. So the more dynamic some of your characters, if they're from different dimensions,

or beings made of light or energy or elementals, you have to still create a framework where the reader can still believe it. So although all these books are fiction, I also personally think everything is fiction. You know, I'm 40 years old. Technically, I don't know what happened 41 years ago. I trust the history books, but I actually didn't experience it. And again, that's a... solipsistic way of thinking what the world revolves around you. No, I know the world revolves around everybody in their own world. But in terms of consciousness and fiction, I mean, I wasn't there during the Civil War. wasn't there during the Egyptian times. It happened. But I know that from books. So it's fiction, technically. And so that's a slippery slope to kind of go down, because then you start to think, well, OK.

Earth is 4.6 billion years ago. I wasn't there then. And then the universe is 13.6 billion. I wasn't there then. Well, what about 14 billion years ago? So you can start to kind of like play these mind games in your own mind to expand your levels, but it's all fiction. But again, everything is fiction.

Sabrina Duong (04:32)
Right, so your book is around, exploring self-portrait on psychosis is the one title and higher than my consciousness.

Louis Gale (04:41)
So this is the first one, it's a written self-portrait on psychosis. The second one is orange, a written self-portrait on tragedy. The third book will be yellow, and then obviously green, blue, purple. So I want the six books to each have this specific color aura to it. But the way I look at even the most advanced consciousness is gonna have their moments in the trenches of thought. So that first book, you know, a written self-portrait.

on psychosis, it's almost like psychosis is writing this book. And so that's where the, written self portrait comes in. All the books are of the same title of written self portrait on psychosis, a written self portrait on tragedy. The third one will be a written self portrait on science slash fiction with a question mark. Cause again, what is fiction? So yeah, the theme is really based on letting the reader kind of

go within the subtexts of these really big ideas. We're both studying psychology and from Freud and Jung. The archetypes and our dreams are very built along one idea and that's being human. And so we can kind of say, even though we all have these individual experiences, we all have these individual paths we walk as human beings.

we definitely deal with these grand themes. So I think some can handle it better than others. You know, like I said, the first book that I wrote, I finished it while living in Berlin for two years. Or hindsight wise, maybe I did break my own brain. I mean, really, because when I came back, I just wasn't ready to be back. And so, you I took this year of silence. And in that silence, I found everything. But...

Also, silence doesn't function in this world. You know, we just can't, we don't, can't navigate our society in silence. So I was put into a mental hospital for a while, you know, and so there's all these different paths, but then as a writer, it's like, how can I make that exaggerated and then kind of understood at a level that somebody who might not have had a similar path can still resonate with or somebody who had an even more severe path can also resonate with.

And I think that's the brilliance of fiction is you get to create these characters that basically share ideas. I always think, cause I have, some of my ear tattooed and it's, understand Van Gogh, but it's like I always question what if he didn't chop his ear off? Would we even know him? Probably not. I mean, there's just so many levels of what we do that thing create who we become. And it's like in the pits of despair, it's hard to realize that there's another day, there's another week you're gonna be, you know.

And then sometimes you don't realize that and next thing you know, you chop your ear off or worse, you know? And so that's where I think the balance of an artist kind of comes in. It's like, okay, I don't have to chop my ear off, but I can certainly like tattoo it a bit, you know, or something that kind of, but then again, that becomes a slippery slope because we see that with particular ailments, self-mutilation, know, so there's definitely like balances that have to be struck, but obviously, in some of these psychotic moments of the first book, I didn't really realize what was going on until I can then put pen to paper. So sometimes writing is the best therapy. I mean, I know that's a cliche, but like, no, no, it literally is sometimes.

Sabrina Duong (08:19)
Yes, talking through things and talk therapy is one thing, but I think expressing and I, you know, training also in expressive arts, it just taps into something totally different within a person to be able to express, whether it's drawing, writing, it's, it's really a different experience. When you're talking about your...

period of silence and when you look at your entire life after across a lifespan, it's probably going to feel like a moment you had. But it reminded me of, know, when you think of monks in Tibet or people who go purposely to a retreat, right, and do silence retreats and ⁓

Louis Gale (08:55)
Well, I was on my way to Vipassana in Kathmandu, Nepal, and I had a horrible feeling in the airport of Berlin. Like really a bad, bad feeling. In fact, I was leaving Berlin. I was gonna go to Kathmandu for this Vipassana 10 day meditation silent retreat. I go into the bathroom. I start hyperventilating. I'm crying because for whatever reason, I was just so thinking I'm about to die. I'm going to my death.

Sabrina Duong (09:01)
Okay.

Louis Gale (09:23)
And so I'm in line at the airport waiting and I just literally look up and I'm like, please just cancel this. And literally that next moment, the flight got canceled and I was very relieved. Well, a week later in 2015, that big earthquake hit Kathmandu, destroying thousands of temples, including the one I was going to be at. So it was like, oh, but that idea of silence never went away. And then it's almost like, well, what is going to a retreat versus living a retreat. Now, obviously, it's really hard that year. I mean, it's just kind of a circumstance that just happened. But, you know, when you have your mom on her hands and knees crying and begging you to talk with this social worker because nobody knows what's going on, that's where when you look back hindsight wise, I really hurt a lot of people along the way. But again, in the moment, it's not that at all. And the moment is I know that's my mom.

But at the moment, I am traversing interdimensional planes of existence of thought and words are not allowed. And yes, I know you're my mom, but I'm also not you. You are not me. And so there's this bridge that should never be crossed. And that's kind of what my books are doing, hopefully, is giving you a inside view to some of that because fiction allows for me to, again, it's not a biography, it's not an autobiography, it's not a memoir. None of it is real except in the sense where it's real in the ideas of it. So, but it can be challenging to realize later what your sacrifices of your own life, the impacts you've had on others. But obviously this is a decade ago and

Sabrina Duong (10:55)
Right.

Louis Gale (11:09)
Yeah, but still it's always kind of there sometimes.

Sabrina Duong (11:14)
so your journey up to this point in writing the books, was it around the moment of silence and sort of what you went through at that time, and those struggles that led to it,

Louis Gale (11:26)
yeah, well, the first book was finished while living in Berlin. I didn't do the silence until I came back. So I had my heart broken before I even started writing the book. And I wrote this introduction to the book. the introduction is the first thing when you open the first book, it's introduction. And it's almost like some of my family, when I would share just the introduction, they thought it was like a manifesto because it's kind of violent.

I mean, it is the first book is read. It deals with psychosis, but again, it's fiction. But the first idea of the book kind of came to be what it was like thinking fictionally about all the heartbreak I've experienced and just the metaphor in my mind. But in the book, the character wants to see what is it like to just think about buying a hammer to smash somebody's head in.

And so that's kind of where the book begins, psychosis. Obviously it extends way beyond that. In fact, after I finished the introduction about this character, seeing what it's like to buy a hammer, to smash somebody's head in, I closed my computer and I wouldn't write for over a year. Cause I was like, what am I writing? But in that year, I would find myself leaving the States, traveling through Europe and a VW to 14 countries. got engaged.

I mean, my hair grew out, I experienced life and love and all these different things. And so my second time in Amsterdam, I found finally after a year of not writing, kind of in search of this character. What's your name, character? And in Amsterdam on the Amstel River, actually Amstel was the name. So the character's name is Amstel Jack. And in that, when I got back from that four months and traveling through Europe, I mean, it was like, a writing machine, just with that name, Amstel, came. But it was so much different than the original introduction. So that was actually a much needed year break because again, like I just didn't want that in the world. So spoiler, he doesn't smash the person's head in, but that's okay, obviously. But when I would share some of this introduction with family and friends, I mean, some of them even were like, what are you writing? Like, what is this?

So, I mean, it could be different at times. But again, I remember I was, I got my book into certain university libraries, because I've submitted it to libraries. Yeah, so it's at Harvard, it's at Berkeley, UCLA. Yeah, it's like, yeah. But then also one of the librarians at first was like, oh, I glanced through it, but I don't know if it's really academic enough. And I was like, you read it or you glanced through it? She's like, well, I flipped through pages and I'm like, yes, because.

Sabrina Duong (13:58)
Thanks.

Louis Gale (14:15)
That's how you read books these days. You just kind of flip through. We kind of smirked at each other. And then she read it, and now the books are on shelf. So that kind of makes me feel a little bit, the validity of, even though some of these ideas are out there, it still is rewarding to know that if you went to harvard.com and put in Louis Gale, you could check my book out. that's, yeah, that's nice.

Sabrina Duong (14:28)
Right.

That's amazing.

especially, you know, first set of books, right? First time publishing and.

Louis Gale (14:44)
Yeah, mean, yeah, that's, it's a whole other thing, because there's so many avenues of publishing now.

So I get to use word of mouth and my book is at Barnes and Noble and Amazon, books at Walmart and 25 countries, but also it's through word of mouth. So even though it's at Walmart, if you don't know the book or you don't know me, it's not on shelf on shelf at Walmart. this is like the hardest thing, like to have this little barcode with this Haas injective. Like to me, it's just like, it's still kind of blows my own mind that, hundreds of years from now, it's still.

living in its own way.

Sabrina Duong (15:21)
That's amazing. Congrats to that. That's such an accomplishment. And I'm just wondering, what the books mean to you in writing them.

Louis Gale (15:23)
Thank you. Yeah.

Well, it's definitely not vindication or not acknowledgement, but when I was in Europe, I had a choice to make. I had to sell my condo near the beach to continue my Europe excursion. And I hadn't even started writing the book yet. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, no, there is a, I want to write this grandiose the great novel, you know? And so I came back from Berlin in 2015. Nine years later, the first book gets published in 2024 because, I mean, I did my year of silence. I was in a mental hospital. I mean, there's all these different paths. And also I didn't really think it was gonna get published because it was so different. There's no chapters. There's, it's some of the,

Even one of the reviews on Amazon, like this guy, wrote, as long as you like books that have a lot of ellipses and random words capitalize it, because it is inside this mind. So maybe there's a big what the F in giant words, because the thought was so powerful. So it doesn't really fit to the standard mode of writing. So for five, six, seven years, I didn't even think I had anything until one day I was like, well, let me just send it around a couple of places and.

Luckily, it got picked up and then I realized, there's even more to it. And so then I began chapter one. was like, Lewis, you haven't even written chapter one yet. Now we go back to what was all of that year of silence. What was the year on the streets and all that. And that's book two. Like the character is in a real predicament by the end of the first book. I don't want to spoil it, but you're going to realize at the end of the first book, which gives you the sneak peek. So each book gives you the next book beginning. That's kind of my own way to allow myself to know what's happening. So by the end of the first book, when you get to chapter one, which is still in the first book, sneak peek, I never even knew that was in me from dimensional beings and elementals. And it sounds science fiction-y until you realize,

It's kind of all within our minds. And so what is science fictiony about like just thinking about some of the ideas if you realize they're all just ideas. I mean, technically every religious book, every science book, every single thing we have is in a book. It's just a book. so technically, you understand that, you can kind of have free range. Now I'm not saying like, all religious books are wrong or whatever it is. But I mean, we are humans. We tell stories.

So the books mean a great deal to me because not only is it giving sanity to my own insanity, pun or not pun, depending on perspective, but it's also so far resonating with people. Like I have reviews on Amazon, I have some reviews on Barnes and, people seem to actually be interested in it. And that is even more so rewarding.

Cause it's one thing to paint yourself portrait, but then to find out that others like it too. I mean, not that we need each other's validation, but I'm not gonna lie. Sometimes it feels good to open up Amazon and be like, I got a new review. It's like one of the greatest things ever.

Sabrina Duong (18:51)
No, it feels good.

All right, was there any vulnerability in this process? I was thinking when you said about sharing and it feels good and I'm thinking, I paint, right? I paint abstract, but when people ask for something or say they like it, it feels vulnerable because of just, know where I'm at in the moment of creating it and what it means to me. But I was wondering, is that the same experience as a writer sometimes or?

Louis Gale (19:24)
Absolutely. In fact, I still sometimes I love my first book, but I love the second book even more because I can literally open it up at any page, start reading and it will resonate. That's the whole or written self portraits. Every page has something. But some of this writing in the second book, there's a council of these dimensional beings. And the idea came where I grew up extremely Christian in a Christian household, youth groups, all that kind of stuff.

But I remember like in the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth and the earth was without form. It's like, that's it. That's all the words it took. mean, in terms of dimensional dimensionality and universality, there might be a few more words needed. So I have these dimensional beings, but literally the vulnerability came when I would have to pull over to the side of the road because it was almost like the dimensionals were telling me, no, this is the next haiku like poem that dictates mere reflections, but those mere reflections can be into your eyes of the soul. And so it's like, but if I didn't capture that little moment of really weird writing, because it's dimensional writing, it's like, I would have never gotten it again. And I can never, sometimes I even have to go back and I'm like, it doesn't make sense even to me now, but then it also does make sense if I put myself back in this like mindset of, no, it's just beyond human.

And so in those moments, like the beyond human aspect, it's very vulnerable because I feel so tiny compared to my own ideas, because the ideas seem to be coming sometimes, you know, like to have that N-O-T-W, not of this world. Well, it's like, no, all that is of this world because like they're all on earth. Like, okay. But what is a different dimensional plane that is actually not of this world. And so that's where.

It can get kind of scary at times because you realize like, it's not even about the insignificant of a speck among specks. It's like the speck among specks was billions of years ago. It's that insignificant. And it's just like, what do we all do? In our minds, it's not insignificant because we're living these lives. And so that's the issue. It's like, what is a 75, 85, 100 year old lifespan?

I mean, if all of us were just born 100 years ago, none of us are here right now. So what is this thing called death? Can you tap into even like a glimpse of just a momentary glimpse and in that glimpse though of like that absolute nothing, you then realize the very next moment, I'm still here. So it's still something. But in that little moment of glimpsing something that is way beyond, there's a lot of information to be understood and to write upon and reflect upon and meditate on. And that's kind of where the vulnerability can come in because it's way beyond anything I've ever thought of, or at least when I grew up with, or things of just standardized ideas. so it's, yeah, how do you make it make sense? you talk about abstract artwork, you know, I even Jackson Pollock is one of my favorites.

Like there's an actual algorithm to some of his work and you can actually almost use Fibonacci sequences to kind of see the potential spiral that unfolded at just different levels. So even in these abstract ideas, I think you'll still somehow, if you're in the right mindset, find like, no, that's not that abstract to me, you know? And Picasso, mean Picasso, he was one of the greatest painters of all time.

He could literally do anything. He could paint exactly the Mona Lisa. He could paint exactly the Sistine Chapel. But that was already done. It wasn't until he just was like, let me just shift some perspectives, cubism, that then he became who he was. So in terms of the vulnerability, the vulnerability really comes in terms of potentially redefining genres and redefining what writing could even be.

Sabrina Duong (23:33)
Yeah, even with my own abstract paintings, people tell me it looks like a landscape, like every time. I don't start that way, but it turns into some sort of landscape sunset or some, you know, mountain.

Yeah, it's interesting. I can see patterns. In our work.

Louis Gale (23:49)
Yeah, I think even Jung, you know, he's very into the patterns of humanity and the archetypes that we have. I mean, in one of the classes I took, we had to like really dive deep into Jungian and Freudian. And this is my thing is like, I appreciate all the work and the psycho analysis and all that. But at end of the day, it's like when Freud and Young, they're analyzing these dreams. It's like, that's great for your dream. You know, as somebody in one of my classes was like, we are, there is this collective

Sabrina Duong (23:56)
Mm.

Louis Gale (24:19)
unconscious that we shared. just asked like, so you've dreamed of my grandfather? And it was like, well, no, I'm like, okay, so that's not really a collective unconscious. It's your own collective unconscious. But if you're dreaming of my grandfather, then yeah, then you're tapped. But most likely, somebody in India is not going to dream of my grandfather.

I mean, you hear about twin studies and people sometimes having conversations in their dreams. And so that is a reality. But how far can you expand it?

I'm very, I'm a very realistic person. like the reality. It's just that my reality is way out there, but there's still an actual

science to it. Like one of the things I'm always thinking about,

I wonder what other advanced civilizations are thinking. Are they laughing at it? Are they humored by it? I think it

Sabrina Duong (25:11)
Right.

Louis Gale (25:15)
Who's to say what other advanced technologies or civilizations are actually thinking? And what I'm saying sounds like science fiction, except that it's not though. That's what I'm trying to say is that even like Carl Sagan, men of science admit statistically, it's actually to think we're alone is actually the not correct way of thinking. And
even now with them acknowledging aerial phenomena and UFO and that's all being unclassified. So what is conspiracy now is kind of a whole different thing, especially when it comes to things that relate around science.

Sabrina Duong (25:56)
I was wondering if you could tell me what it's been like studying conscious psychology and transformation while writing these books.

Louis Gale (26:06)
Yeah, I mean, so I'm about to, I just had my last paper. So I'm actually about to graduate with my master's in CPT, consciousness, psychology, transformation from the John F. Kennedy School of Social Sciences, which is like a very, it's like a gem. It was founded in the sixties by the Kennedy family as like the first holistic, fully accredited psychology program. Where I guess the core idea I would say about studying consciousness, psychology, transformation, I'll just say CPT now. The core idea is that I got to take a class on ancient shamanism. I got to take a class in myth and lore and things that are not so ordained psychology. Obviously you study at all, 2000 years ago, a shaman tapping into the ethereal plane of mother earth.

Would be revered as a holy person while somebody today might not be seen the same way in Western culture. So Western culture is quick to diagnose, we're quick to prescribe, we're quick to continue that remedy because we think that's what it is. I mean, you talk about monks and shamans, there's so many other alternatives to

Consciousness to psychology a lot of it is cultural a lot of it is language when I lived in Berlin for two years I had to learn the language on a visa and so I studied German and I started thinking We think in English, but they're thinking in German and others are thinking in France and others are thinking in different languages so how you think really does to take your behavior and especially like some languages are more harsh than others some are more eloquent and love sounding and some are of completely different alphabets. You know, can't even or some of them are backwards to forward. I mean, there's just so many different ways language is processed. But to take it from this consciousness perspective, because literally we are defined by our thoughts. those thoughts create behaviors, the behaviors are actions. And so those those big three really are, I guess, can be seen consciously.

So although some are using it to become clinicians, I wanted to actually go into this program to change my own life. So one of the first classes I took was on integral life practices. And I had to build this map of my own lifestyle. And I realized, wow, I'm drinking every day. I'm smoking every day. Part of what I should do is find out how to stop that, especially if it's not healthy living. So I don't want to be a hypocrite. I want to practice what I preach. And so I also did this paper on habits and addictions where my core finding was wait until 19 to do anything. You know, I didn't have my first cigarette until I was 25. And so when I quit last year at 39, it was actually really easy one day of not smoking and I had no cravings because I didn't depend on it at 13 14. My lungs were already formed my
mindset, my chemistry was not linked to the habit. But if you start smoking at 13, 14, that can be a lot harder to break. Same with alcohol, but part of this paper on habits and addictions looked at social media and technology because again, I'm 40, I don't have any kids, but my first cell phone at 17 was a flip phone. And I thought it was the coolest thing ever. I had a flip phone, you put the antenna up, I don't know. And we had some debate in our class about like,

Well, sometimes you just want to give your kid the iPad and have a break. You know what mean? And that's fine. But your mom or dad probably didn't raise you that way. You are not familiar with what this technology, this is unproven ground. Australia has just banned social media until you're 16. that's so important.

Sabrina Duong (30:14)
and there's a lot of great research coming out of Australia right now too around social media use and effects. And I read one article that it's causes dementia like symptoms early on for young adults now with excessive use of social media, the internet, seeing cognitive decline. Yeah.

Louis Gale (30:32)
I loved college, I loved, I did seven years. I started my graduation. Yeah, I loved university. Like it's the greatest thing, but I don't know if it's the same as it was in the 2000s when I went.

Sabrina Duong (30:37)
name.

was wondering, you mentioned wanting to be a prof and teach, but what are any ideas for your PhD that you'd like to share?

Louis Gale (30:53)
Yeah, so I'm actually looking at a school, it's called the Chicago School, and they have an international psychology program. And part of one of the papers I did was on political discord in the States. And I realized when I had to redo my real ID, there were only three boxes to click. Independent, Democrat, Republican. I chose independent, but also by living in Europe for a couple years, they have six, seven, eight major parties. And so...

The thing about Europe is even if you win an election, it's maybe like 25 % a majority, we're gonna have any other 75 % hate you because you have all these different ideas of parties. We're in the States right now. The politics has not only like spread into things that should no longer be politicized, like women's choices, healthcare, education, now politics is literally everywhere. And the visceral hatred based on these

Sabrina Duong (31:48)
Mm-hmm.

Louis Gale (31:53)
only basically two options has become apparently clear. So my PhD dissertation idea is to try to implement and really go into how to get more parties in the States.

America first Republican at whatever you want to call it so you would actually have to have some form of like there's Republican and then there's MAGA Republican, but just like there's Democrat Mondani just won as a Democrat socialist So there's now Democrat socialist so extending what it is is the first step I don't know if we're ever gonna be having how you have the Green Party and a Labour Party and all these different things like Britain that's too

Sabrina Duong (32:16)
spectrum.

Louis Gale (32:34)
That's been tried. have the tea party. had all these different ideas of parties. what you need is just keep what it is, but just give more options

And so I feel like a lot of people aren't willing to grow because they're afraid of those growing pains. But that's why we're having so many issues is that people are afraid to admit when they're wrong, which if anything, that's the sign of the most strength is to admit when you're wrong

you don't wanna put on a blame game when going into politics as easy as it is, but it doesn't really get anywhere.

Sabrina Duong (33:03)
Yeah.

it's different times and that's why I created my podcast of like, you have people who are just, you know, coming online now, influencers as experts who are just regurgitating stuff or not citing anything, saying things or research when it's actually controversial. And I wanted a platform for actual, people of expertise, people generally want to help who,

have the knowledge to share and can talk to people about how to help in ways that aren't harmful. It's kind of the flip side that people who have expertise or knowledge are not seen as such. ⁓

Louis Gale (33:48)
I guess I'm lucky because I just signed contracts.

I'm not doing anything yet for, but I just signed the contracts for my third book, which is different than the series. So basically the third book and I've signed contracts, we're already going into the pages and all that kind of stuff. It's going to be called Masters in Psychology. And basically what I'm doing is just showing what the actual Masters was. So it's basically just the publication of all these papers and the whole idea of this reference book.

is with references is the show like not only is it possible for anybody to be an expert, it's just you have to devote. I devoted two years. I was taking six classes at a time. Sometimes I had to write a 10 page paper, a 10 page here, a 10 page and then a mid-term. But that's the thing. if you're not wanting to do that, the least people can do is trust those that do decide to do that.

And so that's where I hope humanity starts to like look forward. It's like, okay, you know what? I'm not smart enough to be a medical doctor. I'm not. I have the worst practice. I can't take tests. In fact, I failed my driving test twice and I had to get a note from a doctor to get almost like a special needs test where I had headphones because I do, maybe it's dyslexia, maybe it's, I don't know what it is, but like I can't do a standardized test which means I would never be able to become a medical doctor because I'll never pass an MCAT. But my cousin who is a doctor was like, no, that's what those standardized tests are. They're testing a specific type of knowledge, a standardized knowledge that you need to be a medical doctor, for you to be a Juris Doctorate JD. So the PhD, the masters, that kind of gives you this philosophy. That's what a PhD is, philosophy, doctorate. I don't have to take a test.

Sabrina Duong (35:29)
Yeah.

Louis Gale (35:44)
but I have to write 200 pages of my own idea, that maybe my medical doctor cousin might not be able to do. So it's really about finding your own level of brilliance, but then not feeling bad if you're not brilliant at certain things. know, Simone Biles, she's a genius when it comes to kinetic kinesthetic types of intelligence. For her to do a backflip on a balance beam, she's a genius.

Sabrina Duong (36:01)
Yeah.

Louis Gale (36:12)
She's not going to do open heart surgery. but the open heart surgeon doesn't have control of his body the way it does. So there's so many different types of intelligences, so many different types of genius out there. But what happens is humans feel like, or some do, that they have to either know it all or they have to be in charge of the information they're knowing. No, see, that's where we're getting in these issues now. Measles is back. Like actual, like what? How is that possible?

Sabrina Duong (36:37)
I know.

Louis Gale (36:40)
because people did their own research, I see.

Sabrina Duong (36:42)
Yes. So I was wondering if you could talk to me about your role in peer support for National Alliance on Mental Illness. I think that role is so valuable for people to connect to others, who have an understanding, who have knowledge like you shared in health.

Louis Gale (36:51)
Yeah, not me.

Sabrina Duong (37:06)
their own experience, mental health. So yeah, if you could share a bit about that.

Louis Gale (37:10)
Yeah, mean, NAMI, National Alliance on Mental Illness, N-A-M-I, is one of the best organizations. If I ever get to go on Jeopardy or Celebrity Jeopardy and I have an organization that I get to give charity to, it would be NAMI. And I actually first was introduced to it when I was four years old. My cousin, adopted cousin, her name was Monica and she had schizophrenia and she was murdered on Skid Row when I was four years old, 1989.

and it went unsolved, but two years ago they actually found who did it and put him in jail, which was a family win. But Nami was something my aunt was part of, like in the 80s, growing up with an adopted child who had schizophrenia. And her path was on the meds, off the meds, on the meds, off the meds, like so many do. And then one time off the meds, that was it for her.

Sabrina Duong (37:59)
Mm-hmm.

Louis Gale (38:03)
So when I redid NAMI, when I got out of the mental hospital and you know was clear and

There's two levels you can do it at a peer support specialist where you the individual have had some issues with it or like my aunt did where she's a family member of somebody who has some type of mental illness. So I took an 80 hour course got a certificate. It's called an MPSS Medi-Cal peer support specialist. And basically what that allows is if ever needed. I actually went through a

Riverside County interview, but they hired from within, but that's okay. Cause what this organization does is instead of sending a social worker to somebody on the streets, or instead of sending the police to somebody that might be dealing with mental illness, how about somebody who just also experienced it? You know, and what the organization helps with is not only that first point of contact, not police, not social worker, just person that also lived it. So they could talk at that level.

They're also kind of like your point of contact. if you live on the streets for a while because of mental illness, you probably don't have ID. You probably don't have things that you need in terms of getting back into society. And that peer support specialist helps with that as well. And so there's two levels to the organization, like peer support or family member, and each one has its own path. So yeah, it's a really fantastic organization.

anybody can be part of it, nami.org. like, did a 5k walk for them, and they're always doing little charity things and just different outreach programs. Yeah, so that's definitely something that helped me as well

The 80 hour course that I took was so therapeutic in itself. So even just getting certified as a peer support specialist helped me after I got out of some of the self-inflicted predicaments.

Sabrina Duong (40:04)
Yeah, and I think it's great because we don't know when something happens in life where we might need support, right? And where we might be struggling and not being afraid to accept it and to reach out or to also give back as well too after having those times.

Louis Gale (40:20)
Yeah, and that's the thing. It's like, think the way I really want to get back is my books. You the first book, it deals with psychosis. It's heavy themes. One of my cousins had heart palpitations reading some of it. but again, it's fiction. And the whole idea of it is that there is light at the end of the tunnel. It's just that some of that tunnel for some is longer and some of that light might be like a pinprick of light.

And so what does that look like when you're basically in darkness? And that's the acknowledgement that I feel like a lot of people don't acknowledge. they just want to either fast forward past some of the darker moments of mental health or darker moments to things that make someone make wrong choices that seem wrong only from an outside perspective. But like I said, if someone shouting at the moon and to you,

That's crazy, because they're just yelling at a moon, and they're yelling at a street sign. But also, there's a way to potentially, eventually know, to the person, are you aware that you're shouting at the moon? And that's a whole other thing, when you're aware of it. In fact, they even did, and I love this study, that people who talk to themselves are way more intelligent, have less issues than those who don't. Because just talking to yourself sometimes,

 I'm not gonna lie, sometimes I have literally screamed out in the middle of a grocery store sometimes. I just had to do it. I it's better for me to have that cathartic moment. Google, Louis Gale. I've done that before. I've asked to leave places. I know, okay, I'm leaving, okay. Thank you. You know, I know what I'm doing. It's just sometimes the world is too much that those moments allow for feel better. So that sometimes, yeah, and as long as you never actually hurt anybody or like force your beliefs on others, you know, I mean, that's like the key. That's the new golden rule. Like don't hurt anybody and don't force others to believe what you believe. Unfortunately, like we're seeing a world where a lot of beliefs are being forced.

Sabrina Duong (42:05)
You to release.

Louis Gale (42:22)
That's.

Sabrina Duong (42:23)
so looking forward to hearing about your work and your PhD and how that goes.

Louis Gale (42:26)
Yeah, so yeah,

I you can, yeah, basically I just tell people if you just Google Louis Gale, the books show up because you can get the books, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, everywhere you buy books, indie bookstores, it's there. And then I'm also, my social media that I like to interact with is LinkedIn. So Louis Gale and LinkedIn, but also I'm on Instagram, but I don't really I don't respond really on Instagram. just, yeah, it's just something, I'm.

I'm normal. I'm human. I'm on Instagram too, see?

Sabrina Duong (42:56)
Where

where you get the news these days, right?

Louis Gale (43:01)
Yeah. I can't

And my fourth book on a written self portrait is on politics.

So the third book I'm finishing, I'm a hundred pages into the third book, but it goes into on politics, but not earthly politics. Too easy. I have this idea for universality galactic politics, where basically how can you have these competing sides of so many different views? maybe one group of ideas needs this person in charge and one group needs the exact opposite in charge.

How can both be in charge? It's really simple. Put one on this planet, one on another planet, and the harmony, the balance of equations works, but then what is the other side of that equation? That's where it gets fun.

Sabrina Duong (43:51)
That'll be really interesting to read. Thanks so much for your time today, and sharing about your journey, your amazing book series, and congratulations on the publications of them, as well as not only being an author internationally, but as well in your studies and looking forward to hearing about your PhD as well, too. Thanks so much for your time today.

Louis Gale (44:16)
Really appreciate it, Sabrina. Thank you.