Ep. 17: Navigating Fear - Examples and stories to help parents know how to prep.

Navigating fear with your child can be overwhelming, but what if you had a simple framework to help them feel safe and supported? 💛 In this episode of webe Parents, Dr. Matthew Lederman & Dr. Alona Pulde break down the F.E.A.R. method:

🔹 Feel it together
🔹 Explain what you're doing
🔹 Act with purpose
🔹 Reassure often

From real-life stories to practical strategies, this episode is packed with wisdom to help you turn moments of fear into opportunities for connection. 💕

To learn more about what Alona & Matt are up to check us out at webeparents.com, or follow us on our socials at Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, or YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to webe Pärents wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Transcript

Alona: [00:00:00] Hey there! We'd love for you to hit that subscribe
button. By subscribing, you're helping us spread the word and connect
with more amazing people like you.

Host: Welcome to We Be Parents, where parent doctors Matthew Lederman
and Alona Pulde explore current parenting topics, share stories, and
help bring families closer together.

Matt: Welcome back to another episode of We Be Parents, the podcast
where we explore the joys, challenges, and heart of parenting. Hi, I'm
Dr. Matthew Lederman

Alona: and I'm Dr. Alona Pulde.

Matt: And today we're diving into the second part of our episode on
navigating fear for your loved ones during times when safety is in
question and how we navigate all of that in a way that not only is
effective, To take care of what needs to be taken care of, but also
supportive to all those we love.

And before we dive in, I just want to make sure we ask everybody,
please subscribe to the show. So you never miss an episode by
subscribing. You'll join a community of parents learning, growing, and
supporting each other every week.

Alona: Yes. Please, please subscribe. I just want to, before we kind
of share, uh, letters from our listeners and headlines and heartlines,
I just want to go back and remind our listeners about the fear
framework because I loved it so much.

that you mentioned last week, which is F E A R. So F is feel it
together, E, explain what you're doing, A, act with purpose, and R,
reassure often. So feel it together. Really encourage your child to
name their feelings. I feel scared when I see smoke. I am worried
about my health. I can't sleep. I had a nightmare.

Explain what you're doing. So whatever that situation is, share your
[00:02:00] plan. And if you don't know, that's okay too. You can
share, I'm not sure how this is going to unfold, but whatever it is,
we're going to do it together. If you do have a plan, sharing that
with them is. It's wonderful. So in the case of the fires, now we're
going to go pack a bag.

So please pack the 10 things that are most important to you in your
room. Act with purpose. Really involve your child, like creating, uh,
that, that go bag and then reassure them, remind them that they're not
alone, that you're in it together and you're going to work to stay
safe.

Matt: I love that. And it's a really easy, clear, step by step process
to navigate fear.

Matt: I love that. And it's a really easy, clear, step by step process
to navigate fear.

And I think a lot of people want to support others, and especially
their children, and they're not sure what to do.

Alona: Yeah. And I love, uh, you know, one of the other things that we
mentioned last time was practicing. Really practicing outside of an
emergency what can be done in a given emergency because that really
helps you in moments.

And we shared some stories and I think we have a couple more here to
share in our headlines and heartlines.

[00:03:14] Headlines and Heartlines
---

Alona: Headlines and heartlines. A family in Florida that practiced a
hurricane evacuation drill together. And when a real storm hit, the
kids felt really confident. They knew exactly what to do and they were
able to get it done in a calm manner.

Matt: Yeah, it's a wonderful example of empowering children through
action. Practicing the drill ahead of time gives kids the sense of
control and safety, gives them a real clear idea of what to do. And
again, in that fear framework, it's all about mapping that out and
giving them something to walk through.

When kids know what to expect and they have a role, [00:04:00] it
really reduces the fear and builds confidence. So help them, even if
it's unexpected, help them, you know, I don't know what's going to
happen a half an hour from now, but I do know what's going to happen
right now. You're going to take your wee bee breaths, you know, from
the wee bee calm practice, and then you're going to go and you're
going to gather up.

Five comfort items to put in the car.

Alona: Yeah, and that was a very realistic situation. We mentioned
that last time to our partner Ryan and his daughter, uh, when they had
to evacuate for the fires and she came in. It was an unexpected thing
and she froze. And he was able to bring her to regulation because she
was completely immobile and paralyzed and consumed by shock or fear,
both.

And he was able to look her in the eyes and say, okay, we're going to
take our weeby breaths. And she already, knowing what that was, helped
her regulate enough to be able to move on to the next, next task.

Matt: And more important than knowing in her head what it was, she had
months of practice. So her body knew what it was.

Matt: And more important than knowing in her head what it was, she had
months of practice. So her body knew what it was.

I tell people the difference between the head and the body is like the
part, you know, when you drive a car and 10 minutes later you're
somewhere. You don't even know how you got there because you were
daydreaming, but somehow you didn't wreck the car. That's the, that
part that was driving the car for the last 10 minutes.

That's the part that needs to have the practice of breathing and you
get that by doing it every night. And then when you need it, your body
just knows how to do it. Yeah. There's another one I liked about a
single mom reassuring her son during a blackout by turning it into an
adventure with flashlights and storytelling.

Alona: Ooh, I love that. What a, what quick witted thinking and a
great example of Modeling calmness and really reframing one, making
fear okay, [00:06:00] but also reframing it into something that was
fun and memorable. And this situation allowed for that. Not all will,
but instead of focusing on what they couldn't control, she was really
creative in, uh, Creating a sense of connection and reassurance.

And I love that. That's again, going back to the fear framework,
that's kind of creating an anchor modeling the behavior of calm.

Matt: And I, I love that people write in about things that don't go
well too. I love the authenticity. Nobody gets it perfect all the time
despite what they Facebook. It's really important to put out there,
Hey, we're all human.

And I say about 50 percent of the time I handle things with my
connection skills. The other 50 percent I struggle, and then in that
other 50 percent you're often there to catch me, so that we do, we do
pretty well. But sometimes, you know, we make a little mess.

Alona: Yeah, sometimes we're both not at our skill sets.

Matt: Yes, and that's what happens sometimes, and that's life. And the
more we can talk about that and acknowledge that and everybody can
accept us despite that. The, the better off we're going to be. So, so
his dad talked about balancing fear with staying calm when they're,
when he was dealing with some flooding.

And he said that later his child expressed feeling left out. And when
you don't include them and give them something to do, again, as part
of the fear framework, it can exacerbate their fear. So giving them
something to do allows you to still do what you need to do as a
parent, to keep everybody safe and to move things along.

But it all, even if it's follow you around with this flashlight or,
you know, go grab three things that'll make you comfortable, you're
giving them something to do that they might [00:08:00] not be able to
think of doing on their own, but that helps them significantly.

But it all, even if it's follow you around with this flashlight or,
you know, go grab three things that'll make you comfortable, you're
giving them something to do that they might [00:08:00] not be able to
think of doing on their own, but that helps them significantly.

Alona: I like, I like that. And I like that reminder that we are human
and, you know, yes, it's wonderful if in a state of emergency, we can
kind of check our own pulse and remain calm enough to provide and
model calm for our children, but sometimes it's not going to happen.

And, you know, to give ourselves grace as well. And to know that, you
know, we have the gift of repair for later when we have more space and
time.

Matt: It's interesting. I remember when I was an intern and they would
have codes that would, you know, the code for someone's heart stopped
or weren't breathing. When I was an intern, I was new because I didn't
know what to do.

I would go as slow as I could. But still move forward because you have
to be heading towards the code. But I didn't want to be the first one
there as the only doctor. I want to make sure my resident got there
first at least. Because I was scared. And I didn't know, you know, is
this the right thing? Even though you knew in your head what to do,
being able to do it in a code when it's crazy was hard.

So I'll probably get in trouble now that I admitted that I would do
something. But, you know, then all of a sudden you, you start to be
very practiced. Okay, this is what I'm going to do in the code. And I
would, I would role play and practice what, and then I would tell you,
here's the next step. And if this happens, this is what I'm going to
do.

And this happens, this is what I'm going to do. And then I'd practice
it with my friends. And cause then second year you had to run the
codes and sure enough, my first month. In the ICU as a, as a new
second year resident, you know, I was, I was an intern 20 minutes ago
and now I'm a resident and there was a code in the radiology
department and this guy had a heart attack, I think in the MRI machine
or something like that and I come down and my, and there was a
teaching hospital.

So I remember the cardiology. attending came down and said, I'll take
him to the cath lab if you can get him [00:10:00] back. Meaning like,
resuscitate this guy. I'm like, why am I doing it? You're, you're the
attending here, but they wanted us to, he wanted us to be comfortable
and practice and go through, but he was there behind me and he had my
back.

Meanwhile, I think we first did CPR on me and then, and then we did
CPR on the patient after, but it was, it was a beautiful thing of
helping me through a time of tremendous fear. He was there, had my
back, helped me when I wasn't sure what to do, but it's about, it's
about that process. So I don't know if that, for some reason I was
moved to tell that story.

Meanwhile, I think we first did CPR on me and then, and then we did
CPR on the patient after, but it was, it was a beautiful thing of
helping me through a time of tremendous fear. He was there, had my
back, helped me when I wasn't sure what to do, but it's about, it's
about that process. So I don't know if that, for some reason I was
moved to tell that story.

Around navigating fear, but if he wasn't there and supporting me I
could I it would have been a total it would have been traumatic for me

Alona: I love that and it highlights that fear is Rampant in our lives
and show us up in so many different circumstances and experiences and
having The ability to name it, face it, and have this support behind
you to kind of encourage and create that safe container is really
important.

You want to share some letters from our listeners?
Matt: Let's do it.

Alona: All right, so we got a letter and, and the summary of it was an
eight year old that kept asking, what if something bad happens to us?
How do we answer that without increasing their anxiety?

Matt: That's such a heartfelt question. It shows how much, you know, a
child just needs that reassurance.

And I think first acknowledging their feelings and, and empathizing,
like, I, I understand it's just, it must be really worried. Is it
really scary? Is that how you're feeling? And just check in and give
them more space to talk about their feelings. We don't want to make
them go away, we want them to have space to talk about them.

And then you can, and then you can reassure if, after you've given
them space to [00:12:00] express their fear, and highlight their needs
for a sense of security and safety, then you can ask them if some
reassurance would be helpful, which is another need. And you can, and
so I don't even like to jump in with reassurance, I like to sometimes
ask if that would be helpful.

And then explaining the steps we're taking to keep the family safe.
And then, again, this ties back into the fear framework, but explain,
you know, what's happening, what we're doing, and then can really give
that sense of security. And again, without dismissing their feelings,
even though it might feel helpful to say, don't be afraid.

Don't worry. Telling somebody not to feel an unpleasant feeling
doesn't ever work. It doesn't ever make the feeling go away. If
anything, it makes it worse and it teaches them not to share it. Not
that they stop feeling it.

Alona: Right. And then there's, uh, anxiety built around even when the
feeling creeps up again.

That that feeling is not an acceptable feeling. And the effort that it
takes to suppress and repress that only amplifies the impact of it.
And I think in this situation, it's really important also to remember
that it's okay to say you don't have all the answers. You know, a
response such as, yeah, I'm not sure exactly what we're going to do,
but this is what I do know.

I know that we're going to be together. I know that we're going to
work to keep each other safe. And I know that this is what needs to
happen in the next five minutes.

Matt: And that's empowering the way you said that is What I know is
how I'm going to show up. I don't know what's going to happen, but I
know I'm going to show up.

I'm going to show up doing everything I can to keep you and me safe.
That you can, that you can guarantee.

Alona: So we got another one. Uh, during a recent power outage, my
daughter wouldn't leave my side. How can I help her feel more
independent in scary situations?

Matt: [00:14:00] That's a good question. That, to me, brings up a
couple of things.

One is, what needs are coming up in the parent? And then, what needs
do you think are coming up in the child? So, if the parent has a
concern that there's something wrong with the child, they're not okay.
There might be this desire to get them to like, Stop following me
around. Everything's fine. What are you worried about?

Because it makes you anxious or worried as the parent. They're also, I
decide to be curious about what's going on inside of me. If that was
happening, why am I feeling anxious? Why couldn't, you know, why
couldn't I do something just to check in with the child? And, and,
depending if it's happening a lot, or I think that I'm sort of failing
as a parent and my, my child is becoming more neurotic or anxious.

And so it can all bring up this, this reactivity in us to try and make
that stop or go away. The other thing is, what's going on in my child?
Are you feeling, and instead of just guessing, Hey, are you, is
everything okay? To which they might feel pressure to say yes. I would
guess a menu of potential feelings and needs.

Are you feeling scared and worried about your safety or not feeling
really safe right now? Are you feeling worried and alarmed and just
doesn't feel secure, like something, everything, you're not sure
everything's going to be okay right now? So there's different ways you
can, then they can answer and say yes, or they can say no, but it's
more of this.

Are you feeling scared and worried about your safety or not feeling
really safe right now? Are you feeling worried and alarmed and just
doesn't feel secure, like something, everything, you're not sure
everything's going to be okay right now? So there's different ways you
can, then they can answer and say yes, or they can say no, but it's
more of this.

So asking, asking and really Empathizing versus trying to make it
stop.

Alona: I love that. And I love checking your own pulse there too.
What's coming up in me that I'm, I'm wanting this strategy of
independence. And I think sometimes it's, like you mentioned, like,
we're not comfortable with our own unpleasant emotions, and so we, in
our desire to repress and suppress it in ourselves, we try and do the
same in our children.

And that [00:16:00] opportunity to be in connection through those
unpleasant emotions is really empowering for them, it's empowering for
us, and it's empowering for the connection.

Matt: Yeah, I love that, and I think it's really true that if we're
not comfortable with it in us, we're definitely not going to be
comfortable with it in our children.

Right. It's something we want to make go away. So imagine saying to
your child, Oh, you're feeling a little more anxious. You want to be
around me? You want to stay close? Why don't we play a game? Why don't
you try and follow, follow the leader and, and follow my steps. And
now they're, you're sort of using play to disarm as well as checking
in.

Hey, while we're doing follow leader, you want to tell me what's,
what's up for you? What's going on? You can even do a brain dump. We
do that in our family a lot where you're saying, just tell me all the
stuff you're worried about. I'm not going to try and stop it. I'm not
going to try and fix it. And you practice doing that so they feel
comfortable, they trust that you're not going to judge them or give
them advice.

And then they'll start saying, I'm worried about this, I'm worried
about that, and, you know, and this is concerning, and, and that's
really, really helpful. And so it's not to Pretend it's not there.
It's not to make it stop. But it's also saying, hey, there's a little
more space around fear and anxiety. It doesn't have to feel so tight
and tense.

[00:17:17] Commercial Break
---

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[00:17:56] [Commercial Break End]
---

Matt: right, I'll read another one for you.[00:18:00]
Is this normal?

Alona: Yeah. That's a great one. And yes, it's normal. Kids process
big events through repetition. So talking about the fire might be his
way of trying to make sense of it. And the more that we can
acknowledge that and the more that we can invite, encourage, and then,
hear that the easier it is for them to actually process through it.

A lot of times, and you know, that, that happens with kids in
emergency situations. It also happens whenever they're processing a
big emotion and the, I remember with Jordan, Jordan used to do that
where she would repeat something and repeat it and repeat it and I'm
thinking, we've talked about this. What is happening here?

And then in a conversation with you, the clarity came that, Oh, she
hasn't processed through it yet. And so, yeah, it continues to come up
until it's gone. And we can relate to that as adults where we
perseverate on something, um, that we haven't processed through
completely.

Matt: Yeah, when there's repetition, when we have thoughts that keep
coming up, when kids keep talking about something, it's a sign that
there's something that still needs attention.

So instead of trying to make it go away, try and approach it with
curiosity. And if you are put off by that action of the other person,
Then be curious about what's going on inside of you.

Alona: Which leads to the next question. How do I manage my own fear
when I don't want to scare my kids?

Matt: Yeah, that's an important question because kids pick up on our
emotions so easily.

Alona: Whether we say it or not.

Matt: Oh yeah. I know I've taught the kids to ask if I'm tense. If
they say, Hey, I'm feeling tension. So now, and then, Dad, are you
feeling tense? I'm sensing some [00:20:00] tension. And that gives the
kids something to do. in when they're, when they're worried about
something and or they're picking it up in me and they can talk about
it.

Because otherwise, if I'm tense, they might be nervous to bring it up.
Similarly with fear, if I'm afraid. They might be nervous to even talk
about it.

Alona: And I think in talking about it, it de escalates the intensity
of it. It almost like normalizes it and makes it okay. It's okay to
feel tension and it's okay to feel fear.

And so the more that we can talk about it and allow that emotion to
kind of just be one in a basket full of emotions.

Matt: That comes up with anger. For me, it's more around anger,
irritability, irritation than fear. But for anger, it took time for me
to be okay acknowledging anger. I used to think anger was a bad thing,
so I would try to suppress it, but everybody knew I was angry.

And the kids didn't know what to do when I was angry. And often, if we
didn't talk about it, they'd think they had, they were part of the
reason for it. Teaching them to say, hey, when dad is, when you think
dad's angry, just ask. Say, hey, dad, are you angry? And then I'll
say, yes, I'm angry. If I'm angry, I made him a promise that I would
at least do that.

Sometimes I can't get into it or talk about it too much. I'm still
angry, but I know that when they say, dad, are you angry? That it's
going to help them to say yes. And the other thing I taught them to do
was to say, well, what are you going to do about it? So they don't
take it on or think they have to fix it.

So they'll say, dad, are you angry? Yes, I'm angry. And I was like,
what are you going to do about it? I said, I'm going to take some deep
breaths and I'm going to try and I may go into my room and sit for a
couple of minutes [00:22:00] and then I'm going to try not to yell too
loudly. And I appreciate you checking.

Thank you. And then I walk away. So, there's something about, and for
whatever reason, it took a long time for me to trust that talking
about my anger actually makes things better.

Alona: I think it gives them a sense that the world isn't ending
because you're angry. You know, I look at generalizations and women
who express fear more readily, who cry more readily, when they do, it
doesn't feel as scary.

Uh, for, especially for children as when they see their dad afraid or
when they see their dad crying. And I think part of that is that kind
of normalization and expression of something versus the repression and
suppression of it. So when it comes out, the assumption is, Oh, this
one must be really big and awful.

Matt: Yeah. That's why it's really important to. Model all of these
feelings because telling them it's okay to have it but never showing
them you yourself having it Tells them it's not okay to have it right
and I practice all the time that I can whenever I'm feeling shame to
bring it Up whenever I'm feeling guilty whenever I'm feeling Angry
whenever I'm feeling, you know, it's interesting fear is probably the
hardest one for me to bring up Because I do have a worry that it's
gonna make them feel scared themselves.

So, I don't let that stop me, but I'll tell them, Hey, if I have a
feeling, and I don't want you to take on water with my feeling, and
it's okay if you do get scared. As a result, I don't want them to not
be able to share it either. But then I want to be aware that that can
happen and talk through that as well.

Alona: You know, that's a really interesting thing and, and I had a
thought at it and it's, I can't believe it's the first time that this
actually came to mind, but actually. [00:24:00] I think in sharing
that, you are empowering the children to differentiate from you.
Because, you know, the, the, you said it like the, the idea is, well,
I need to be strong cause I am in the role of protector here versus I
can be scared and my children can be okay.

They can be differentiated enough not to take that on. Yeah. And then
there's the, the notion that, oh, that dad's my safety net. So if
dad's cracking, I'm falling, right? Versus, hey, dad can crack. I know
how to take care of myself and I'm going to be okay. So that question
around independence, part of that is allowing for that differentiation
by saying, this is me.

It doesn't have to be you.

Matt: I like that, that ability to differentiate and help them. And
even if they can't do it, to talk about not being able to
differentiate so they can grow towards that. Ideally they don't take
on water, they don't absorb it or, oh, you know, enmesh with it.

Host: Mm hmm. 

Matt: But even if they do enmesh, you want to be able to address it so
that they can learn how not to do that.

Alona: Right. Yeah, so it's a, it's a really beautiful opportunity and
a gift.

Alona: Right. Yeah, so it's a, it's a really beautiful opportunity and
a gift.

Matt: Yeah, so there's no reason to not bring it up. Especially if
you're doing it mindfully.

Alona: Yeah. 

Matt: Alright, maybe it'll be something, because we always like to
model and practice and fire drill. Maybe I can And I'd be like, mom is
scaring me right now.

Alona: Mom has plenty of worries. I could dump one on you. Yeah, give
me a couple,

Matt: give me a couple of your worries and I'll take them on.
Alona: All right, Matt. You want
Matt: to do the one last thing?
Alona: Yeah. Let's leave our listeners with one last thing. All
Matt: right, go for

Alona: it. Today's one last thing is courage is built not by avoiding
fear, but by learning to [00:26:00] hold it with care and compassion.

And I really like that reminder that. Courage does not lie in the
absence of fear, but really in the face of it and how you show up. And
that's a great thing for me to remember.

Matt: That's wonderful. I love it. I'm letting that sink in.

Alona: Your experiences and feedback are invaluable to us.

Matt: Please email us at parents at webetogether.

com with your own cheers and tears, as well as any questions or
stories you'd like to share.

Alona: And we'd love for you to hit that subscribe button. Bye for
now.