Ep. 35: Stop Punishing, Start Impacting: Why Your Kids Keep Breaking Agreements (and What To Do Instead)

🚨 Tired of Repeating Yourself? You’re Not Alone.
Every parent has been there: you make an agreement with your kid, they break it, and your gut says “punish”—but what if there’s a better way? In this powerful episode, Matt and Alona dive into the rollercoaster ride of parenting through broken agreements, emotional exhaustion, and the choice to lead with connection instead of control. 💥

💬 From iPads and missed curfews to dishwashers and forgotten promises, they show us how the real power comes when we shift from punishment to impact—when your child doesn't just remember the rule, they remember the relationship.

⚡ Challenging moments you’ll want to hear more about:

• A raw and real story of how Matt’s daughter chose to lose $5 over having screen time controls—because it mattered to her.
• How a 10-minute massage became a meaningful follow-through when Matt forgot to run the dishwasher.
• The conversation Alona had when her daughter forgot her phone—one that turned a potential meltdown into a moment of internal growth.

Have a Kinectin Account? Explore these Nudges to see how they apply to your own life — in a way only Amari can.

Nudge: Every time my kid breaks an agreement, I feel like they don’t care—and it hurts. I want to find a way that matters to both of us, without defaulting to punishment.

Nudge: I keep yelling when agreements get broken, but deep down I know it’s not working. How do I help my child remember through connection instead of fear?

What is Amari? webe Parents has partnered with Kinectin to bring you Amari, your personal AI coach. Now you can interact with the ideas from our podcasts, articles, and parenting tips — and Amari will help you apply them directly to your personal life. Don’t have a Kinectin Account? Create one here

To learn more about what Alona & Matt are up to check us out at webeparents.com, or follow us on our socials at Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, or YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to webe Pärents wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Transcript

WBP 135 | Shifting to Impact Topic | Podcast

[00:00:00] 

Alona: Hey there. We'd love for you to hit that subscribe button by subscribing, you're helping us spread the word and connect with more amazing people like you. 

Speaker 17: Welcome to we Be Parents, where parent doctors, Matthew Lederman, and alone pull day, explore current parenting topics, share stories, and help bring families closer together.

Alona: Welcome to Webe Parents. The podcast where we support your family's growth through connection, collaboration, and shared humanity. Hi everyone. I'm Dr. Alona Poe. And hi, I'm Dr. Matthew Lederman, and today we're digging into a moment every parent faces when our kids break an agreement and disappointment doesn't seem to land.

Matt: Agreements seemed to be broken frequently. In fact, they were broken so frequently that we started calling them experiments because, because they just seemed to change, especially in a collaborative, non permissive [00:01:00] household where you want to make sure everybody's needs matter. And sometimes initially the agreement sounds like a great idea and then all of a sudden I realize, wait, all my needs aren't met, or all their needs aren't met, so we gotta come back to the drawing board.

Alona: Yes, indeed, indeed. 

Matt: So before we jump into this, we definitely need to have everybody subscribe to our podcast. That really helps us out, helps spread the word. We appreciate it. And then I wanna see how you're doing. 

Alona: Oof. I'm exhausted. I'm emotionally drained and this is the perfect topic to discuss because sometimes I think if I didn't know the cost of disconnection.

Alona: There would be so many times where I would just want to be authoritarian and have obedience. Sadly, I know the cost of disconnection and it's so much greater, right? That I. Uh, I choose to be [00:02:00] exhausted, but you know what? In a, in a house where we have an 11 and a 13-year-old, both girls going through puberty, hormones, raging, it's a roller coaster and I am motion sick.

Alona: So that's where I am today. How about you? 

Matt: Oh, wow. That was vivid. But I hear the moten sickness on the rollercoaster. I'm having, I'm having my ups and downs too. I feel like that's the more I, I go with it. Then I think I got a, a, I'm on steady land. I remember I'm actually on a surfboard and I'm on the ocean and we're just moving and I, 

Alona: and you don't know how to swim.

Matt: I got like, got my life jacket on and it's just a matter of, um, some days I'm handling the waves better and other days I'm getting knocked on my behind 

Alona: and yeah. 

Matt: Yes. But today actually I feel pretty good. Right now. I feel that, you know, took a shower. That's always a good thing 

Alona: [00:03:00] for all of us. Yes, 

Matt: yes, 

Alona: yes, yes.

Alona: So, so diving into today's topic, I. Underlying it all, I think is heartache around feeling ignored and, and then the futility of defaulting to punishment, even though sometimes that just is, seems so much easier. We all want our kids to follow through, especially when we spent so much time collaboratively putting forward an agreement that we.

Alona: Believe we're all on the same page around, and then boom, agreement fails. Somebody didn't live up to it or, or meet it. 

Matt: And worse, it seems like it happens over and over again. And I have a story in my head that it doesn't really matter to them. So it's not these big agreements where there's this naturally big consequence.

Matt: It's more like [00:04:00] it's something that we talked about. It's important to me. It's not particularly making or breaking their lives, and they just sort of forget about it. And it's this weird, it's this weird balance where I don't believe, I don't, I truly don't believe that they, that they don't care. I believe they do care.

Matt: That was a double negative. So it's like, I really believe that they do care and there's so much going on in their world, in their heads, and they have these, not these brains that aren't fully developed that it's just doesn't get on the radar. And then when they fail to follow through. They still feel guilty and ashamed about it.

Matt: Yes. And they say, well, child, remember next time. And I don't doubt that they really intend to remember next time. Oh, I do. You only kidding. I'm just kidding. Yes. Yet they do every time. So then the question is, what do we do? And what my parents did was they punished. What most parents do is they punish because the thing that you want them to do isn't big enough.

Matt: To really get their attention to [00:05:00] remember on their own. So they're like, well, if we scare them enough, maybe then they'll remember. 

Alona: Yeah. If we may get hurt enough, they'll remember. Yes. Yes indeed. And 

Matt: those are clear needs. It's not that we wanna hurt them. When parents do that, they're trying to meet needs for mattering and predictability.

Matt: I get it. I default to that when I'm not fully aware of, you know, not really connected to my skills. And I, I do it quite often in ways that can be painful, but ideally I also connect to, Hey, I'm not coming from a bad place. I'm just trying to meet needs for predictability that they're not, if it's, if it's big enough, if it's painful enough.

Matt: They're not gonna do it again or they're gonna be less likely, they're gonna think twice and at least they're gonna hear me. It's gonna matter. Hey, look how upset dad got. Look at the punishment they delivered. 

Alona: Yeah. Adding beyond predictability and matter at, you know, when it comes to punishment, it's also ease.

Alona: I just want this to stop enough already and [00:06:00] I don't wanna put any more effort into making it so, um, and. And that's what we're gonna explore today because that's one strategy when natural consequences don't seem to be enough. And by natural consequences, I mean our disappointment or our upset around, uh, a broken agreement.

Alona: Sometimes that just doesn't feel like enough. And yes, punishment is one strategy, but what we wanna talk about today is how can we increase impact without falling back on punishment. And 

Matt: that actually applies to me as well as the children. Yes. And adults as well. Oh, and at some point we'll talk about my dishwasher challenges.

Alona: Maybe we can talk about them today. Actually, they fall right into today. And I love that you brought that up and I would love for you to share when you know, we start getting into the topic a little bit more, but to show that yeah, we are not [00:07:00] immune to that behavior. Either we fall into breaking agreements as well, and the more that we can connect to the impact that that had, the more we can come to the table in this collaborative way that is meaningful enough that we won't forget or makes us more likely not to forget or makes it less painful when we do forget for the other person, and we'll talk about that.

Speaker 19: This episode of Webe Parents is brought to you by Webe Calm the Child, calmer, designed by doctors and loved by parents 

Alona: struggling with bedtime routines or managing your child's anxiety. Webe Calm, transforms deep breathing into a fun and engaging activity, helping kids find their inner calm, perfect for bedtime stressful moments, or anytime your child needs a little extra help to stay calm.

Alona: Visit webe calm.com to learn more and bring tranquility to your [00:08:00] family. We be calm because we be in this together. I, I thought maybe it would be helpful to kind of. In to, to share where we, how we're defining punishment versus impact. Okay. Um, and so when we talk about punishment, it's one sided. The parent is really, um, imposing the consequence and oftentimes it doesn't even connect to what, what happened.

Alona: So it could be the kid lie, you know, a kid came in and lied to you. And you take away their device privilege for the day. You know, A doesn't have to do with Z so the kids are not even connecting it. All they're looking at is, oh, it's, you know, my parents took that away from me. 

Matt: Yeah. Like, uh, like grounding, 

Alona: right?

Alona: Like grounding. Yeah. Um, versus a collaborative approach is really [00:09:00] when the parent and the child co-create a follow through, and it's anchored in memory and meaning not in control and pain. If it hurts enough, you're gonna actually listen. No. If it's meaningful enough, you'll actually remember. Um, punishment focuses on obedience.

Alona: Impact and, and connecting to impact builds responsibility by connecting you to internal motivation. What drives you to show up differently and behave differently. 

Matt: And that's why when you co-create the what's gonna the result, the consequence, it's driven by them trying to meet their need to care for you as well.

Matt: So that co-creation is so important so that you can actually. Make sure that it's coming from inside them not being imposed by you. 

Alona: Yes. And in that co-creation, it's rooted [00:10:00] in the specific agreement that was broken or missed versus some arbitrary or random consequence. Um, or the, 

Matt: or. They're not connecting or the kid was bad, so here's your consequence 'cause you were bad, you behaved badly.

Matt: Mm-hmm. 

Alona: And, and you know, ultimately it's. If it's coming from impact, our intention is to share or to ask what would help this matter to you in a way that you'll remember. Versus I'm gonna inflict enough pain in this situation that you will remember 

Matt: exactly. Because there you give the child the benefit of the doubt.

Matt: Mm-hmm. They want to remember if you're inflicting punishment when they don't remember, and you have this energy of you're a bad kid because you don't care and you don't remember, you would've remembered if it's important enough to you. Mm-hmm. That's not true. That's not accurate. They care and they wanna remember, and they feel ashamed when [00:11:00] they don't.

Matt: They don't meet their own needs when they don't remember. So help them connect to that and then help raise the stakes so that it's, they're more likely to remember in a way that's fun. And, and it's gamified and it's almost like, um, a competition with themselves. Yes. 

Alona: Yes. Let's talk about where this came about.

Matt: So where this came about, well, for, for us it's, it's sort of peppered its way through our entire parenting career. But specifically what made me think of this for this episode was with Kylie and Jordan and our agreement to turn off the iPad at seven o'clock. We had already talked about the health of the iPad and the, and being off your device.

Matt: We all agreed comfortably that turning it off at 7:00 PM and being off all devices, parents and children included was the agreement. And then what would happen is [00:12:00] 7 0 1 I look up and they didn't turn it off. And I said, well, what happened here? We had the agreement. Oh, we forgot. We forgot. We're so sorry.

Matt: It matters. It matters. Okay, great. I hear that it matters. We repaired. What are you gonna do to help you? Remember? Then they set alarms for seven o'clock. And I'm like, okay, great. This is gonna work. You know, oh 7 0 1, they're, and I'm like, what happened? And they're like, I don't know, dad. And I'm like, what do you mean you don't know?

Matt: And they said, well, our alarm didn't go off. I'm like, I don't know if that's true. I think it went off and so the next night, 

Alona: oh yes. Then we have the informer. The informer. Ed did go off. I saw you swiping up. 

Matt: Well, that's what she did. So the next night, Jordan, our little informer comes over to me and says, dad, I saw Jor.

Matt: I saw Kylie swipe it up and just keep going. And Kylie. Then I asked her about that. She said, I don't remember that at all. That, and rather, you know, I really believe, 'cause I've done that too, where [00:13:00] I'm not paying attention and I just swipe. Yeah. And she has so many alerts. You know, that's another conversation and it's a whole other show, is how to turn off all the alerts and badges and notifications, which we're working through.

Matt: But then she was like, dad, I really didn't mean to swipe up and I'm sorry. And one of our agreements was if we don't keep, if we don't follow through with the seven o'clock deal with the alarm and not swiping up, that I'm gonna turn on screen time. So it automatically turns off your phones at seven o'clock.

Matt: Kylie particularly doesn't like that. For her, it feels like she's a little kid and she doesn't want to have her phone being controlled. She actually, at summer, CLA takes her phone and puts it in the kitchen for the whole night. So it's not a fact that she wants to sneak her phone. She just doesn't like having these external barriers on her.

Alona: Oh, autonomy is a very important need for her. Yes. 

Matt: Yes. So she's totally fine keeping her phone in the kitchen, but she doesn't want screen time. And I said, well, the deal was, if we can remember before. We need to come up with something [00:14:00] that works for you and for me, because just saying, I'm sorry and hoping next time you're gonna get it isn't enough.

Matt: And that's when she said, well, dad, how about if we turn on screen time for a week if I forget again? And that's sort of where we were at, where she, she has to turn on screen time for a week, even though she doesn't like it. And what was interesting actually, was before we got to that, I said, what do you think we should do?

Matt: And she said, I have no idea. And this is where the non, I think this is important 'cause this is the non permissive part of collaborative non permissive parenting is that I said, okay, I really want your ideas too, but I'm not okay just leaving it up to chance. So how about I turn on screen time and then when you come up with a better idea that works for you and for me, we'll turn it off.

Matt: So for about an hour and a half, we had screen. She said, dad, that's fine. We had screen time on. And then she, then she came to me on, after she says, dad, what I'd rather do is give you $5 if I [00:15:00] forget. 'cause $5 is really important to me from my money and I'd like to try that. So do you see how she came to me?

Matt: And we left on screen time. So I was, felt no urgency. I trusted she, and she was fine because I said, Hey, come up with a better idea. And then I said, my needs are gonna be met. And they were. And then she gave her an idea that also met my needs that worked better for her. So we shifted, we pivoted. 

Alona: Yes, and that's you guys created a win-win that honors both your needs and her needs in a way that works for both of you.

Alona: And yes, she'll be really bummed if she has to give you the $5, but it was a decision she made, so it's so much easier to accept that consequence as well. 

Matt: Yeah, we even went over because she'll get bummed. I said, when if it happens again and I just, you know, take the money, how do we handle it so that, you know, you don't get all upset [00:16:00] and, and withdraw, but you sort of take it as, hey, it was a bet and I lost the bet.

Matt: It was a competition and I lost. Like, I'm disappointed, but hey, I get it and we'll try again. 

Alona: Yeah. I love that you. Created a connection to impact and made it matter because it was meaningful, not because she was scared and did it out of fear. Right. And I love that. I love the energy around that and the connection that remains as a result of that.

Alona: You know, and, and you mentioned, you know, it doesn't just exist in the world of kids and adults, or kids and kids, it's. It's us too. And the dishwasher is a perfect example. 

Matt: Well, she, you know, before we jump into the dishwasher, she was happy to do this. Mm-hmm. She really wants to remember. Yes. And she wants to find a way that can increase the stakes.

Matt: That's fun for her. So she was very excited to do this [00:17:00] versus a punishment, if I, I, so it's not so much the action, it's the energy behind it. Because I could have come up and said, the next time this happens, you're gonna pay me five bucks. Right. That would've felt very different to her. She would not have been happy with that.

Matt: Yes. So I think there's this whole idea, but different than what you do is the energy behind what you do. 

Alona: Yes. And is preserving collaboration in that so that you wanna matter, but they wanna matter also. And when you both can approach it in a way that honors, that mattering, that mutual mattering, that feels great.

Matt: Yeah, I like that. I like that. And that, and that's where. It also helps me because if it happens again and she pays me five bucks, I know that matters to her. Mm-hmm. So I know it wasn't that it didn't matter, it was that, hey, something happened in her world where she was, she didn't have the capacity to do it, not because it didn't matter.

Matt: Mm-hmm. And to me, that's brings us into the dishwasher. For some reason. I have this, this habit of [00:18:00] loading the dishwasher, putting the soap in the dishwasher, closing the dishwasher, and not turning it on. And I. For some reason, I don't know what, I still to this day have no idea what goes on in my brain.

Matt: I've set alarms, I've, I've written post-it notes all over the place. I mean, I've asked the kids to help me and I just forget. It's this weird thing and it definitely matters. And it's not a big deal. Like, I'm not, like purposely not doing it just to have big dishes. 'cause I'm the one that unloads them. So then I have to wash 'em in the morning when the dishwasher doesn't go on.

Matt: So, so we came up with another thing which was, Hey, Elona, if I forget, I'm gonna give you a 10 minute massage. So before you would call up and be sort of frustrated, like, Matt, you forgot the, the dishwasher, even though we talked about it and there's sticking notes everywhere, all over the kitchen and da, you know, and I would say, oh, I'm so sorry.

Matt: I would feel ashamed, embarrassed. Like the voice is like, why aren't you remembering this stupid dishwasher? Now you call up a, you've heard 

Alona: me? [00:19:00] No, I'm just kidding. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, now I get excited. Yeah, now you get excited. 

Matt: I'm like, woo hoo. Got a 10 minute massage. Right. See now instead of saying, why didn't you do this, washer?

Matt: Yes. You're calling up and saying, I get a 10 minute massage. You know, and you're singing upstairs. And I'm like, damn, I, I forgot again. Not because I don't mind, I don't wanna give you a massage, but because I want to figure out why. I can't remember. Yeah. But it helps with the shame because it becomes a gamified sort of fun thing that you and I created.

Matt: It didn't feel imposed on me like, Matt, the next time you do this, you know, this is, this consequence is gonna happen. So it's really, and now you know, it matters because if I'm giving you a massage, it's not that I'm just not caring. I think it helps raise the stakes in that way, not only for me, but it helps you realize it does matter.

Matt: Yes, 

Alona: it creates a mutual sense of mattering and respect when you not only co-create the consequence, but [00:20:00] when you meet it and, and validate, you know, that mattering in that respect. Right. So, 

Matt: and the energy again is very different if you're imposing it on me versus I'm coming up with it. I think it even feels better to you if you imposed a massage and then you thought I was resentfully doing a massage, you wouldn't enjoy the massage.

Alona: Oh, yes. You still I? No, no, no, no. Well, no, no. I would feel, well, I would feel bad about asking for it. 

Speaker 17: Mm-hmm. 

Alona: I would feel bad about calling it out because. Uh, and that's again, if you are doing something out of obligation or punishment, the cost to me in that disconnection is great. 

Matt: Exactly. Exactly. And that's why it's so important that I came up with this for myself and asked you to help me.

Matt: So I'm basically asking you, can you please help me re when meet my need for consideration or mattering or remembering? Mm-hmm. [00:21:00] And this is helping me. So now when you tell me I owe you a te minute massage, it's because you're contributing to me, not punishing me. Yes. 

Alona: And you're coming from an a place of, um.

Alona: Uh, you know, looking internally. For your cues versus waiting for an external delivery of you did, you did or did not meet those expectations. Exactly. Um, and I love that because when you start learning how to do that, it. Seeds out into other areas of your life when you're connecting to impact. Um, that happened last night, right?

Alona: We finally had, uh, Kylie was at a friend's house and Jordan, and you and I were so excited. We're gonna go to the movies together. And we hadn't done that in a really long time. And we're on our way to the movies and Kylie texts. You know, I forgot my phone. Can you guys bring it after the movie? Now this friend [00:22:00] lives 45 minutes to an hour away from where we live.

Matt: And the Friday Los Angeles traffic. Yes. 80 an hour and a half. 

Alona: Yes. And so. I was so conflicted because I knew that it mattered to her. And you know, there was a part of me that didn't wanna disappoint her and at the same time, I just could not wrap my head around going, driving for three hours potentially to at best to give her a phone and.

Alona: So I shared that vulnerably. I said, oh, baby, I would so love to meet your need. And at this very moment, I can't think of a way to do that without significant impact. So let me share with you what I'm. Feeling and I shared that it would be at best a two hour ride to get her the phone. The movie didn't end until later in the evening, so it wouldn't even be till really [00:23:00] late that night.

Alona: And you know, and then I connected with her and said. So I'd really love for you to think, how important is this for you? Because if it were life and death, I'd drive two hours. Right. 

Matt: So there you empathized with her. Mm-hmm. And cared about her needs too, and tried to understand what she was experiencing.

Matt: And that's what people want. They want you to step into their experience. 

Alona: Yes. And the, again, the non permissive part was also a request and I'm wondering. If you can flex knowing the impact and you know, do without your phone tonight, 

Matt: which I like that as well because you're, instead of saying it's ridiculous that you would ask me to even go and, or expect me to drive out there versus, it's not ridiculous.

Matt: It's request. I'm glad she asked. Yes. And then you said, Hey, it is a flex for her. If, if she doesn't have her phone, all her friends do. [00:24:00] She that's, I mean, this is a whole different show, but they, they text to each other while they're right next to each other. Yes. But she's gonna be missing out on some of the connection with her friends.

Alona: Yes. 

Matt: And you were asking, you were caring about that and asking her to check in. So she's basically flexing saying, you know, mom, I'd like to contribute to you as well. And not even, and, and not have you come out. 

Alona: Yeah. And that was her response. Sure. But can you bring it tomorrow when you pick me up? That was it, you know?

Alona: And then there was no, I connected to her later and she was sharing some of her experiences, asked about our movie. There was no animosity around that. 

Matt: Because if you could easily have gone into, you don't care about me, you're not bringing it out. Or you could have had animosity, how could you ask me to bring that phone?

Matt: I don't 

Alona: know. I'm not bringing a phone to you. Drive two hours just to get you a phone. Stupid. 

Matt: Exactly. Yeah. Versus really caring about her world and helping her see the [00:25:00] impact. And I think she shifted also when you, 'cause at first she was like, can you bring the phone? And again, this the kid brain, the not fully developed brain.

Matt: Doesn't connect to the two hours round trip of traffic and the driving and the timing to make dinner and all these things. And when you brought that out and made that very clear, the impact you, you raise the impact to the point that she was almost on her own gonna say, you know what? I don't think that's worth it.

Matt: That does, that doesn't, it doesn't work for me. Even if you would say yes, because that's too much on you. 

Alona: Yeah, and, and although it might seem like that veered off our original topic, the, I'm, I'm gonna bring it back to that topic, which is when the more we can connect our children to internal motivation and understanding their impact, the more that seeds out into how they show up in the world, whether it's around an agreement or not an agreement.

Matt: [00:26:00] Exactly, and I think that was what you did beautifully and why it relates to what we're talking about tonight, which is the impact. How can you get them to connect to the impact 

Speaker 17: topics and tools? 

Alona: Matt, share with us our tool for today. How can you get them connected to the impact? 

Matt: Yes, well. I think before we jump into the tool, I just wanna make clear that some people think collaboration is a little bit weak and that you, you know, and maybe someone would say, Hey, how could you even negotiate with the phone?

Matt: And I think that collaboration doesn't weaken accountability. I think it deepens it. I think you working together, it's really important to collaborate and that when you collaborate, you get them to connect to each other's needs. 

Alona: Not only that, but I, I love that question. How can you even collaborate with her on that?

Alona: Because I trust that she [00:27:00] does care. The only reason I wouldn't want to collaborate with her is if I didn't trust that, if I thought she doesn't care, so I have to impose my will to get her obedience. 

Matt: Exactly. And disappointment that you have. Or frustration in that, in that case, or exhaustion. It's, it's real, but it, it, it, unless it creates a felt shift in their world, it's not gonna shape their memory or their awareness or their brains effectively.

Matt: So we have to work with them to not only connect to our frustration or our, or our exhaustion or whatever we're feeling, but help them really get a felt sense of it. I think that's important too. 

Alona: Yeah, and I'll caveat the exhaustion. The exhaustion is not around, you know, I mean, obviously partly every little thing, parenting is hard, and parenting mindfully and parenting, you know, we [00:28:00] have a finite amount of energy.

Alona: And if in collaborative parenting you're spending. An amount of that energy working together with your kids, but the reward that comes of that is thousandfold. I would say for sure. You know, the ability to be able to connect to our daughters in the way that we connect to them is gold is a gift that truly keeps giving.

Matt: Exactly. And that's what I mean. We don't ground, we don't punish. We do make sure needs are met and that impact is felt and we're all aware of it. And I think if people realize that a missed agreement or failing to do something is not always defiance frequently, it's not. But it's often a moment that just didn't emotionally register for the child.

Matt: And that if we can come from that energy, seeing their humanity, seeing their good intention behind a [00:29:00] failed agreement or failed follow through. Connection develops. As a result, trust builds and magic starts to happen in the relationship. 

Alona: Yeah. And I think if we're truly teaching, if we take those opportunities as teaching moments, then we are showing them, modeling for them a different way.

Alona: Not forcing them into it. 

Matt: Exactly. So the tool that I think helps with all of this is, uh, you know, impact together. 

Alona: So if you've been listening to us for a while, you know, we get a lot of questions about what to do in tricky parenting or relationship moments. 

Matt: Yeah. And if, if I'm being real, I'm asking alone those same questions all the time.

Matt: I get into those same tricky moments as everybody else does. And as much as we wish we could be there for each other in those exact moments. We just can't always be. 

Alona: Yeah. That's why we partnered with the amazing team at Connection to create something. We [00:30:00] truly believe in an AI coach called Amari. And we didn't just lend our names, we helped build it and train it and brought in everything we've learned about emotional healing, connection, and communication.

Matt: Yeah, we spent years training and learning, and we've created Amari, who's so calm and grounded. Listens deeply and responds with warmth, clarity, and compassion. There's no judgment, no reactivity. In fact, we tasked our children with trying to get Amari reactive and they still haven't succeeded. It's just steady support when you need it most.

Matt: I. 

Alona: We use it ourselves all the time, especially when we feel stuck or overwhelmed. And Amari's really helped us pause, reflect, given us insight that helps us come back to each other. 

Matt: Yeah, we designed Amari to help you strengthen the relationships that matter most, starting with the one you have with yourself.[00:31:00] 

Alona: And we are so excited that you can try it now@webeparents.com and click on we be connecting with a k. To sign up and when you have your Amari moment, please let us know as we'd love to hear about it.

Matt: So we're the, the theme is together, a collaborative practice to co-create meaningful follow through that kids actually remember. And that's the key to actually remember it and respect it. And when do you use it? When a child misses an agreement. And the natural consequence doesn't carry enough weight to make those moments memorable.

Matt: And I think that's important. That's, there's a lot of time where things that are important to us don't inherently matter to the child, but when they connect to the fact that it matters to you, then and you, they can, and we connect to their contribution for caring about that, that's when something great can [00:32:00] happen.

Matt: Mm. That's where we can work together. Yes. So the first step is to pause and name the missed agreement like we did with the iPad. Hey, we agreed to turn the iPad off at seven. It didn't happen tonight. And by the way, it's important to start and talk, talking about this after. They trust that we see their good intentions.

Matt: So it's, it's not right in the moment when they're gonna feel shame at seven or one. I say, Hey. It's, Hey, I want to talk about something. Hey, about an agreement that didn't follow through. How are you feeling? Can we do that right now? And then I can even give them a little reassurance. Hey, I get, I, I want you to hear that.

Matt: I know that, you know, keeping your agreements matters to you. You value trust and integrity. And at the same time, sometimes we, we fail to do that. So there's a little bit of extra. Uh, softening for the landing. 

Alona: Yeah. Well, I love that you, you, um, shared it as an observation and not an evaluation. What do I mean by [00:33:00] that?

Alona: Is that you, you know, Marshall Rosenberg, kind of the father of nonviolent communication often said the, the biggest difference between an observation evaluation is an observation is like you're looking through a movie, uh, a camera, and you're just noting what you saw. So it was, we agreed to turn the iPad off at seven.

Alona: It didn't happen tonight. Now, hey, you didn't meet your agreement, you broke your agreement 'cause you didn't turn the iPad off. That blame and you know, which often sparks shame and defensiveness. Um, and an evaluation, 

Matt: right? And we can't come with that neutral observation if we're feeling. Triggered and we had enemy images of our kid not caring about us.

Matt: So part of what we talked about, if you can really wrap your head around that philosophy that it's more of a a [00:34:00] brain memory thing. It's a brain registering thing. 

Alona: Yes, 

Matt: you will shift your energy, which will shift how they hear you. 

Alona: I think one of the things that helps me remember that is my own, you know, facing my own fallacies.

Alona: I. Um, and the times when I don't meet an agreement and it could feel so benign, like, I'm on my phone, oh, I'll be there in five minutes, and five minutes go by and I'm not there. That's a broken agreement. I said something and didn't live up to that word, you know? And how many parents find themselves in that situation?

Alona: Not because we don't care about our kids, because we momentarily got lost in what we were doing. 

Matt: So, so that energy, that, that seeing their good intention all is part of this package, of this tool. Yeah. And then the obs 'cause because you could say, Hey, we agreed to turn the iPad off at seven. It didn't happen tonight.

Matt: But you're angry. Or historically they're shame and you have to help them with that. 'cause they're like, [00:35:00] oh, they're shaming me again. So there's a lot that goes into this. Yeah. The next would be reflecting together on why, why it didn't land, like. Hey, did you forget, or, you know, were you, were you just hoping, I wouldn't notice, was this something really important about the show?

Matt: Did you swipe the alarm up by accident without paying attention to it? Mm-hmm. So I'm making guesses that they can, um, almost a menu of guesses that show that I'm trying to understand their world and not just assume they don't care. Then ask, Hey, what would help this stick in your brain a little bit better?

Matt: Do we need to add something that makes this more real for you next time? Can we, can we make this more fun? Like, let's say something fun that could happen that, uh, makes this like a competition because I, I'm hearing that you really wanna remember and then you co-design the impact. Would a small, you know, money penalty fee feel fair, would, um, some type of alert, you know, would you, you want to join the massage C [00:36:00] Club and give me a massage?

Matt: You know, but let them choose the follow through. And and have them help design that. You can come up with a menu of options, but let them, let them pick and then say, Hey, come up with some ideas. Let's talk about it. We don't have to solve it right now, but I'd love for you to come back to me 'cause that's what's gonna meet my need for mattering.

Matt: I. 

Alona: Yes. And remembering in all of this that, you know, I, I liked what you did with Kylie, which was when she couldn't come up with anything. Not to leave it at that, but it's until you can come up with something, it'll be my way. And then when you can, we can talk about it, you know? And I'm not doing it my way because I'm punishing you, but because doesn't seem like we have.

Alona: Another alternative to consider. 

Matt: Yeah. And that's because I've had many times where I said, okay, we'll figure it out. And then days go by and there's no change. Mm-hmm. And then it happens again. And I realize, and then I get even more angry because we didn't Right. We didn't address it. So it's very important and, and it has been something I learned.

Matt: Mm-hmm. Is quite helpful. [00:37:00] And then the last is return to connection just by saying, you know, Hey, I trust you. I know you care about this. Let's just keep practicing together. We're gonna get this. And now and you're, and now you're together. You're a team trying to help meet everybody's needs. 

Alona: I love it. So let's just summarize those five steps.

Alona: So you pause and you name the missed agreement, and you make that an observation, not an evaluation. You reflect together on why it didn't land, and that could be something simple as what do you think happened? Um, you ask what might help that stick better. Um, and then you co-design what the impact would be and you return to connection, which is this is a work in progress and we're doing it together.

Matt: This shared structure is essential, this collaboration, and I think we can move on to no skills versus pro skills to show the difference. 

Speaker 17: Yes. 

Matt: [00:38:00] So I think we could even show the, a similar example. 13-year-old says they're gonna turn something off. They don't turn it off. What's the no skills? Look, like 

Alona: I said, turn it off now, and if you don't, that's, you're not gonna be able to use that device for knows how long.

Alona: I have had enough. Yes, 

Matt: no iPad for the rest of your life. We say something and that's really doable. And then, and then as it's coming outta my mouth, I'm like, well, how am I gonna keep that agreement right? How am I gonna back outta that? And the tone is, you know, frustrated, reactive the kids. They will roll their eyes, they will slam something.

Matt: That's their way of saying, Hey, this doesn't work for me, but I'm too scared to really say it. So they do it with eye rolls and slamming and socks or withholding, yeah. Their love 

Alona: or their affection or, 

Matt: yeah, and then that unspoken message is care and mattering isn't happening for me. Mm-hmm. [00:39:00] And it's hard for parents 'cause they're like, why would I, why would it give you your need for mattering?

Matt: My need for mattering is not being met. And there's a little empathy collision. 

Alona: Yes. Well, if it, it one builds on the other, builds on the other. Because when they don't show up and say, after you've shamed and blame them, they don't show up and say, oh, I'm so sorry. I, I regret doing that. Then you, you triggered again.

Alona: Why can't they just take accountability? They're the ones in the wrong. 

Matt: Exactly. Exactly. Spiral. Spiral. 

Alona: Yes. It's a downward spiral with, you know, that comes at a great cost 

Matt: and the child doesn't learn how to hold an agreement. They learn how to brace for consequences. Yes. That's not what I want them to learn.

Matt: So with impact together, this collaborative accountability, same scenario, iPads on, it's five minutes after seven. Hey, we agreed on seven and it looks like that didn't happen. Let's talk about why this isn't sticking. We wanna talk about it now, or maybe we can come back in 15, 20 minutes as we calm down a little bit.[00:40:00] 

Matt: I just want this to feel fair and I want it to really work for both of us. And that is calm and curious and connected. And the child would be more like, oh, I forgot I was finishing and, and, and you know, I really care about this and let's come up with an idea. And then you start thinking of ideas and, and the unspoken messages that.

Matt: Your child's voice matters. They're trusted to help fix this. The agreement feels real because two people are required for an agreement, only one is for punishment. And the consequence actually has meaning to them because they created it. So the child remembers not because they were punished, but because they were part of the repair and they connected to your needs, and they connected to the impact, and they want it to matter when all of their needs are cared for too.

Matt: Not about getting away with it, it's about learning how to stay with it. 

Alona: Yeah, and I think the connection that that bridges, you [00:41:00] know, they feel like they matter, which increases their desire to show you how much you matter versus the other side, which is resenting obedience to the point of how many kids have you heard, I mean.

Alona: You know, growing up in authoritarian home, how many times did I say I can't wait to get outta here and make my own rules? Yeah. And our kids might be saying that, but. We don't hear that. Nor am I feeling that. 

Matt: Well, our kids so far wanna live with us while they're in college and I'm trying to get them not to be.

Alona: Yes. Stop being so elaborative. I 

Matt: know. 

Alona: Start finishing. 

Matt: You know, have you thought about the east coast? Have bringing it home. So let's bring it home. Let's bring it home. We'll bring it home with skills. Okay. That's the hard way. We're gonna do it though. So how do we turn impact together into a living part of your family's culture?

Matt: How do we make that part of your home? [00:42:00] Again, it's not about getting kids to behave, it's about building this shared language, uh, around follow through memory and care for everybody. I. They can come up all the time. I mean, come up in the car after dinner ing meltdowns, but instead of imposing on them, let's, let's bring it together.

Matt: Let's bring this in. So the first thing is explain it. I love our, our explain it, invite it, model it, and practice it. Those are the four steps of bringing it home. Explain it, make it theirs, not yours. This is where, uh, dignity and autonomy come in. It's like, Hey, when your child helps shape the consequence, they're so much more likely to to hold onto it themselves with care.

Matt: And I think we can ex, we can, we can explain, Hey, this is, this is the key. This is the key. So when I start off, I'm gonna talk to them about, Hey, what's a great way. For us to remember things that, [00:43:00] that work for both of us. We, we, we listened to this podcast or we were, you know, reading about it. Whatever it is, bring it home by talking about it, explaining that you wanna do things differently.

Matt: I really don't wanna do punishment anymore. I really want to, uh, invite you to help us come with ways to remember things 'cause punishment's not fun. Maybe there's a better way to help things happen the way we've all agreed. Mm-hmm. 

Alona: I was actually thinking of when you invite it, I, I was thinking of the times where I've seen Kylie and Jordan implement it without our intervention on their own.

Alona: Um, now they're at an age where they can share clothes and so they each have their particulars. Jordan. Doesn't care if Kylie takes her things without asking her, but if they don't come back in the same exact condition and Kylie's like dirty and dirty Donna, I mean, she's like constantly getting herself dirty and muddled and, um, she's [00:44:00] responsible for washing it to get it back to what it, you know, what it looked like when she borrowed it or replace it and.

Alona: Kylie has a pet peeve 'cause Jordan will take her stuff without asking and all of a sudden she comes downstairs and Jordan's wearing one thing or another of hers and she didn't even ask. So, you know, they came up with an agreement that if she does that, she doesn't get to borrow the clothes for another for the rest of the week.

Alona: Um, 

Matt: and Jordan came up with that strategy with Kylie? Yes. 

Alona: They came up with it together. Like, how do we, you know, how do we hold each other accountable in a way that feels okay for us? Um, and they're both okay, you know, and they both have had to either replace an item or wash it, um, or, uh, not wear the clothes for whatever period of time they agreed on.

Alona: So. But they came up with that together. And what was beautiful is we didn't get involved in that at all. I [00:45:00] hear those conversations happening amongst them. 

Matt: So I, I heard another one where Jordan was forgetting they share a bathroom. So Jordan likes to leave her clothes on the floor for a couple of weeks hoping that they'll get clean somehow, and Kylie doesn't like that.

Matt: So at first they made an agreement that it was like a dollar, they would each pay the other person a dollar if their clothes were there in the morning when the other person came into the bathroom. So Kylie said, oh, you owe me a dollar, and Jordan did not like that. Jordan doesn't really like the money, types of consequences, so for some reason she agreed and thought it just wouldn't happen again.

Matt: So once she did, she did uphold that agreement, but then said I wanna change the agreement. So then the next time was if she leaves her clothes, um, she has to get Kylie, her water. Fill her water cup whenever Kylie. Whenever Jordan, no. Whenever Kylie asks, Jordan has to fill the water cup for the entire day.

Matt: Kylie was happy with that as well. So what was nice is they came up, I love it. They came up with an agreement and then they, they enforced it because they both agreed [00:46:00] and then they switched it because Jordan said, actually that doesn't really work for me, but this will work. 

Alona: Yes. And I love the creativity and the goodwill.

Alona: The ability to flex on, okay, that strategy doesn't work for both of us. Let's find one that does 

Matt: exactly. 

Alona: So that, but that all comes from trusting that you matter, trusting that the other person truly cares about you. And so that natural goodwill comes into play. So I love it, right? Explain it, invite it, 

Matt: and then model it.

Matt: I think for them, the big one for me, modeling is the dishwasher. And I tell them, Hey, I have a hard time remembering. And then when mom calls up and says, Matt, I'm like, oh God, I forgot the dishwasher again. And I feel some shame sometimes. And Kylie is more like me, where she'll go into shame. Jordan will be like, oh, I made a mistake.

Matt: I'm so sorry. But either way, I'm modeling my experience. And then I said, okay, I'm gonna try the massage thing. And then the next time it happened, I looked at Jordan. We were upstairs watching a [00:47:00] movie and I said, it looks like I owe mom a massage for 10 minutes. Jordan smiled and it, it wasn't this big deal, but she was seeing that it was happening to me.

Matt: And she's heard us talk Kylie as well. Just showing them your humanity. Yeah. And modeling how you do it. 

Alona: Yeah, I love it. And then practicing it. Practicing it. Um, keeping the intention around connection. And collaboration and getting creative over strategies, inviting them to, uh, share strategies that will work for them.

Alona: And keeping an open mind. Yeah. You know, to check in. Sometimes as parents, we resist their stra, their proposed strategies. Could we somehow think we're getting the wrong of the deal versus, hey. How much does it really matter to me what strategy we use here? As long as you know, the outcome is, is the one that we desire.

Matt: Um, and, and I, and I like that. I, it's, it's more about our [00:48:00] connection than it is about anything else. Hold the connection tightly and prioritize that. 

Matt: and, and I think the language is also helpful too. We model that and practice that language and sometimes, we'll, we'll ask them to redo the language if they're willing.

Matt: But instead of like, we agreed to do this and you didn't or you didn't do that, it's to soften it up, to give the other person the grace to be able to say, oh yeah, I've forgotten. Sorry. And when you come at them hot or you're coming in hot, it's much harder to do that. So if we want them, and that's what we've taught as well, if we want the other person to be able to say, whoops, I know this matters to you and I forgot.

Matt: We need to come at them soft, not hot. 

Alona: Yeah. And there are a lot of ways that, um, you know, a lot of different ways that could sound, it could be, I'm not mad. I'm just trying to find something that helps us really land for both of us, or this matters to me. And my guess is it matters to you too. We just [00:49:00] need a better way to help with remembering it.

Matt: Yeah, and I love, we do the redo. So you could say, Hey, you want to hit the reset button? You wanna redo, we'll try again tomorrow, but let's tweak the plan a little bit. Let's change things around, give ourselves a. A better chance of of, of, of hitting the mark here. 

Alona: Yeah. I love that. And I love that the, what's being created is a system of collaborative accountability, not control.

Alona: Mm-hmm. Um, a system that your child can trust and that you can trust, and that you together help to build it. 

Matt: Right. And, and then they're trying to meet needs instead of avoiding consequences. It's about designing 'em together so they carry meaning, not shame. 

One last thing

Alona: When we teach through connection, not control, we raise kids who don't just remember the rule, they remember the relationship.

Matt: I love that. Remember the [00:50:00] relationship, not just the rule. 

Alona: Mm-hmm. 

Matt: Gold. So well, I would love, uh, to invite everybody to subscribe and rate and review the podcast. We really appreciate that. It helps get the word out. Also, please share stories of trying this at home. I. Send questions and your stories to parents@webetogether.com and join us next week as we explore, uh, listeners and letters from them.

Matt: And again, to hear how we can deepen into this, this concept and idea of collaborative agreements and raising the stakes through connecting to impact. 

Alona: I love it. Thank you so much for listening. Thank 

Matt: you.