webe Parents
Welcome to "webe Parents" with Dr. Alona Pulde and Dr. Matthew Lederman! We're parents first, doctors second, and life coaches third, blending nutrition, lifestyle, and connection medicine with nonviolent communication to help families thrive. In each episode, we'll share our "Cheers & Tears," dive into our "Topic & Tool," go from "No Skills to Pro Skills," "Bring It Home," and wrap up with "One Last Thing." Join us as we share stories, skills, and tips to help bring your family closer together using our professional expertise.
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Dr. Matthew Lederman & Dr. Alona Pulde
webe Parents
Ep. 39: Stop Waiting for Joy: How Parents Unknowingly Teach Their Kids to Disconnect
Challenging Highlights You’ll Want to Hear:
Are you unintentionally modeling disconnection for your kids? In this raw and uplifting episode, Matt and Alona dive deep into how presence—not perfection—shapes the emotional environment of your family. They break down why joy isn’t something that happens after you finish your to-do list, but something you can cultivate in every moment—even when life feels overwhelming.
Matt shares a personal story about hiking Runyon Canyon, discovering how a simple wave or smile can change not just your day, but the energy you bring to your relationships. Alona opens up about how the sudden loss of her father shifted her from someone who was naturally joyful to someone who needed “a reason” to feel joy—and how she found her way back. Together, they challenge the idea that parenting is about controlling outcomes and reveal why being fully present—even in moments of sadness or anger—is the real secret to connection.
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Producer:Welcome to We Be Parents, where parent doctors Matthew Letterman and Alona Polday explore current parenting topics, share stories, and help bring families closer together.
Alona Pulde:Hello, everyone, and welcome back to We Be Parents. Today, we're going to explore how the relationships we build with our children begin with the way we relate to ourselves. I'm Dr. Alona Polday.
Matthew Lederman:And hi, I'm Dr. Matthew Letterman.
Alona Pulde:And we are excited to be here with you today. Matt, how are you doing today?
Matthew Lederman:I'm doing well. Today's episode is a fresh one because we were going to talk about One topic, and then based on an experience I had, we got moved to talk about another one. So we're flying by the seat of our pants a little bit.
Alona Pulde:Yeah, I'm very excited because this was very alive for you this morning, and I'm looking forward to sharing it with our listeners. Yeah. What we're going to touch upon today, and we'll dive deeper into the topic in a few minutes, is how small physical acts like a wave or a smile can reveal entire internal landscapes. They really can show how we're doing from the inside out. And you're going to talk about... your experience today, which is fantastic. Do you want to start with that?
Matthew Lederman:Hey, you know, maybe we just kick right off instead of doing the typical. But before, we ask people to always subscribe and follow or all that good stuff, rate and review. It really helps us get out there and spread the word. So thank you to everybody who supports us. And then I'll jump right in. Today, I was, well, I've been, you know, I've been working on really connecting to presence and joy. And maybe we can actually, you know, riff on this a little bit, just this concept of joy. For me, it's, and my struggles, I think, lead up to how today was impactful. And I think a lot of parents can relate to this. And sometimes we talk about things that are specifically for the parents towards the kids. And I think this one really helps the parents with the kids and how they show up, but it also is really important how the parents show up, whether they're in a relationship with each other or even themselves, which then indirectly impacts the children. So I've been really wrestling with trying to find my joy. And the way I think about joy, at least until recently, was it's got to be like, you know, the down part of the roller coaster or, you know, the week-long cruise or winning the lottery. But I was missing
Alona Pulde:out. It sounds like it was something that happens to you that results in joy.
Unknown:Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah, like there's an event, you know, jumping out of an airplane. No
Alona Pulde:small feat. Yeah, for everybody that can relate.
Matthew Lederman:Yes. So, you know, skydiving, if that's the only path to joy, you're in trouble.
Speaker 02:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:So, no, but to me what was interesting was that people would say, oh, if you're present, you can find all this joy in the moment. And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. You know, like that was sort of like, yeah, there's these subtle, you know, things that are nice. But also the other thing was mistaking a lot of the way I go through life was trying to find relief. And mistaking relief for joy is I've found is a common problem, not just for myself, but for a lot of people that we work with. And to me, relief is more like wearing the experience you get when you take off tight pants. It's not really joy. It's just relief from the tightness. So if you have more to say, I'm curious where you are with joy. And I know you show up a little bit differently than I do. I'm
Alona Pulde:working on that too. You know, I have related to recently, and it's resulted in a big shift, which feels so much better in my heart and soul, thinking about I kind of think, you know, my dad died when he was 55, and it was sudden, and it blew up my family dynamic. I mean, it was just devastating for all of us. And it took me a long time to connect to—it's kind of the pre— you know, pre with dad and then post without him. And pre was very much, I would describe myself as someone who was happy unless they had a reason not to be. And I became, after my dad died, someone who was not connected to joy and needed a reason to be joyful. So similarly, it had to be an external stimulus that brought joy. And I've been reconnecting with how isolated and unfulfilling that feels. You know, there's like a lack of satisfaction going day by day, just kind of numb and comfortable with that. You know, just hanging in there, allowing life to be mediocre, right? And I think I really value life can be extraordinary. Even in its hardships, it can be extraordinary. And it really is about how we show up.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah, to me, it's an aliveness. It's a life energy that fills you up. And that's the paradigm I've had before was I have to accomplish something or get to the other side of something and then I will experience that aliveness. So my whole focus is on solving the problem, getting to that other side versus realizing aliveness is right there waiting for you. in the moment. And then this could start feeling a little too foo-foo. And, you know, I'm not sure if the listeners are going to, if this is going to resonate. Because to me, I'm very much into the science and there's an intellectual part of me that very much says, hey, is this stuff crazy? You know, you got to get things done. You can't just sit there feeling, you know, being present all the time. You're not going to get anything done. You're not going to accomplish your goals. In fact, I'll never forget when I sold knives, the guy who was in charge of the whole office, ingrained in our brains that people who don't have goals work for people who do. It's a very pro-capitalist position, but it was basically, you must have goals or you're gonna be out. And I'm not against goals, but if the only way you're gonna experience joy and presence is after you accomplish something I think that's where you start to cause unnecessary suffering.
Alona Pulde:Yes. And I also think that there's a misnomer that presence, you know, and I think one of my resistances to that notion of, well, being present all the time, I can't be present all the time, is because I was connecting presence to nothingness, you know, to sitting at Legs crossed in lotus position meditating or doing breathing exercises or sitting outside in nature and smelling the fresh air. And it's not. It's being present to whatever moment you are in, whether that's meditation. I'm present to my intensity. I'm present to my desire to achieve this goal today. I'm present to my sadness. I'm present to my anger. That is presence in all of its comprehensive
Matthew Lederman:glory. I mean, that's where the parts work really helps me, too, because you can then, when you said anger— The other day, I got really angry at a response and I was able to become, it was a response that Kylie had to Jordan. I remember feeling really angry, like, what did she say? And then I was able to say, oh, there's a part of me that's really angry. And then I was able to be present to that part, connect to that part and say, oh yeah, you really value more kindness and care. You really want, okay, I get why you're so angry. But that presence allowed me to connect, which then created some inner peace, which then allowed me to connect to Kylie differently in a way that was more in harmony with my values overall. So at first I might say, I would say, oh, what do you mean present? Can't I be present? Sometimes you get angry. I'm surviving here and you're telling me to be present? But then the more I get to play with presence, the more I see the value and how it actually helps me meet all of my needs more effectively.
Alona Pulde:Yeah, that completely resonates. I think if I sum that up a little bit, and you can tell me if it resonates, is that in presence, you get to be responsive. You get to choose your response rather than react to your circumstance. And again... You can be present in your anger. And what your anger gave you was more information about where that was even coming from. But that pause, that presence was that pause to say, okay, and how do I want to show up with this?
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. That pause and choice. I like that. So let me jump into the story of what happened. And it's interesting because I... And I said, oh, you know, but I was actually nervous to even ask to change it, which is like, again, I just like that awareness because I think about how many times I don't ask or I suppress just to, you know, keep the peace. Anyway, I was noticing that. I was very excited. What happened was I've been working on listening to this song that my brother told me to listen to, who's a coach. He told me to listen to this song and connect to gratitude, but not to connect in your head. Really feel gratitude in your body and listen to it every morning. which I've been doing, but I decided to play that song when I was on my hike on Runyon Canyon. And as I'm walking up Runyon Canyon and listening to this song, and first thing I noticed was how often I'm thinking about the top, looking at the top, looking at my watch, how much longer, when am I gonna, you know, can I do it? Can I run harder? Am I running hard enough? You know, is there something I should be listening to? And I was like, wow, that's a lot of noise. So that was the first thing I noticed. Like, hey, how can you feel any joy when you have all that noise in your head? And then next was, okay, well, let me just put that to the side and be present. I'm listening to the song, which was very moving for me. It's a song called Blessings by Hollow Codes. I highly recommend people listening to this. So Blessings by Hollow Codes. And you played, I was playing the song and I'm trying to, I'm looking at the trees and I'm looking at the flowers and I'm connecting and, you know, a thought might come in and I go back to the trees and then I see a dog and I see a person and I wave at the person and I'm just sort of present with what's going on. I'm feeling the burn in my legs, you know, and I'm like, oh, this is interesting. And all of a sudden, like, I felt differently in my body, like a little bit of a, like a tingling almost and I'm, And the colors just look subtly different. It wasn't like jump out of an airplane different, but it was a subtle difference. And I'm like, is this presence from joy and really enjoying that? And then I was thinking of more noise. Sometimes I'm watching to see if there's rattlesnakes. I was like, wow, you're looking for danger. You're scanning. And all that went away as I was just present with the flowers and the dogs and the feelings in my body and all that stuff. I said, this feels really good. So then all of a sudden my body is feeling happy and I connected to this memory for whatever reason of as a kid wanting to be famous. And I thought to myself, why would that memory? Because I always think your body is offering up memories and thoughts to try and help you. And I was thinking, why is my body offering up this memory? And as I'm on Running Cannon, I realized that And what I liked about being famous or the idea of being famous was that people would smile and be so excited to see you and you would really matter. You'd really be seen. So I said, okay, that makes sense. And at that point I said, why don't I... just connect to people similarly so i was just like walking and as i'm walking down the mountain and i'm feeling the happiness and i'm listening to that song i started smiling at people and waving to them and i was doing it differently i realized in the past i would smile to see if they would smile back and i would smile and then move on because i was a little bit uncomfortable because it's something different and sometimes i would force the smile because i thought You know, I was usually, I have a serious face because I'm lost in thought and scanning for danger and all the things I was telling you about, all the noise. So this time I was fully present, felt it in my body. And I was, so there was a different facial expression and I was feeling it. And when I said, when I would say hello to something, how it was like this full of life energy that I was contributing and giving to the other person. So I basically felt like it was a contribution to, And I almost didn't even care what I got back. And then I looked at them and they would smile. And when they would smile, some people didn't, but most people did. I would look at them and hold eye contact just for a second or two longer versus normally I would look away. And when I held onto this eye contact and there was something, they smiled. So I gave them a little gift. They gave it back to me and we gave it a second just to connect around that. And that felt really beautiful. It was something very different. But then again, I felt that in my body. And that to me was so joyful. And then as I kept doing it down the mountain, I felt like I was famous because I'm like, everybody's smiling and waving to me. And I was like, oh, wow. So it was like this experience of what I imagined that I was able to have right then. And that's what was so cool was that I could meet these needs just by showing up differently. And in the past, I might've said, I did say this, that people in the city are not as friendly. They're not connecting. They're busy with their own lives. They don't care about other people. And those beliefs led me to show up in a way that was different, that then perpetuated those beliefs and made that happen. And when I showed up differently today, all of a sudden all these people, so either there was a hundred, you know, nice smiley people that happened to show up and everybody else didn't come out today, or it was about the way I showed up today. So I think that that to me, I came home and I just felt so different in my body. And then I felt a little bit, almost like trying to explain it to you, I felt a little bit self-conscious. Like, you know, it'll sound like I'm on drugs or something, you know, and I was like even self-conscious about it. And it was a very interesting experience. So I wanted to share that with you.
Alona Pulde:Yeah, and I loved hearing about it. One, your enthusiasm and the joy of that experience and the ability to kind of see you practicing the presence that so resonates with you, which was really cool. And also, I think connecting to that notion of almost that mirroring effect of how we show up in integrity with our own values and not because we want to get something from that or not because we're seeking anything beyond, this is how I wanna show up in this situation, in this moment. And that being validating enough, that's a really cool reminder and a really cool anchor for people to remember. It's about how I show up. One, to me, that's like the only thing really that we can control is how we choose to show up. Everything else is beyond our control. No matter how much we try, no matter how much effort we put into controlling our environment or controlling other people, that's an illusion.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. And as parents, we are tricked by that illusion frequently where we think we have so much more control than we really do. We also, I find that I used to wait for something to happen to make me feel joyful or, you know, waiting for just, you know, hoping that life was going to happen to me and that I would get lucky to experience something pleasant once in a while. But what I'm learning is that you can change your physiological state and create the connection. If you want connection, connect to other people and they connect back. If you want to experience aliveness and presence, become present and feel the aliveness that happens when you're present. To me, it's when you're, as you're a parent and you're stressing out, you can choose to to go down that path, or you can choose to pause and shift your state, self-connection, or shift how you show up with your kids. And depending on what you're feeling in your body, it doesn't matter what you say, just how you, you know, we talked about that. Kylie and Jordan are both very sensitive to how we show up. So no matter what I say, if my energy is down or irritated or depressed, Or
Speaker 02:disconnecting.
Matthew Lederman:Disconnecting.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:It's going to feel different to them no matter what words come out of my mouth. And that to me is the same as going down the mountain and forcing a smile that almost looks creepy because my body is so busy with thoughts, like I was telling you about, all the noise. There's no congruence there. Yeah.
Unknown:Yeah.
Alona Pulde:So if you've been listening to us for a while, you know we get a lot of questions about what to do in tricky parenting or relationship moments.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah, and if I'm being real, I'm asking Alona those same questions all the time. I get into those same tricky moments as everybody else does. As much as we wish we could be there for each other in those exact moments, we just can't always be.
Alona Pulde:Yeah, that's why we partnered with the amazing team at Connecton to create something we truly believe in, an AI coach called Amari. And we didn't just lend our names, we helped build it and train it and brought in everything we've learned about emotional healing, connection and communication. Yeah,
Matthew Lederman:we spent years training and learning and we've created Amari who is so calm and grounded, listens deeply and responds with warmth, clarity and compassion. There's no judgment, no reactivity. In fact, we tasked our children with trying to get Amari reactive and they still haven't succeeded. It's just steady support when you need it most.
Alona Pulde:We use it ourselves all the time, especially when we feel stuck or overwhelmed. And Amari's really helped us pause, reflect, given us insight that helps us come back to each other.
Matthew Lederman:We designed Amari to help you strengthen the relationships that matter most, starting with the one you have with yourself.
Alona Pulde:And we are so excited that you can try it now at WeBeParents.com and click on WeBeConnecting with a K to sign up. And when you have your Amari moment, please let us know as we'd love to hear about it.
Matthew Lederman:I remember you telling me, hey, Matt, it's like when you smile for a picture but don't actually feel it. In fact, with Kylie, it's very funny because her smile, if she's just smiling in the camera, it looks a little funny. So I have to remind her to imagine, you know, golden retriever puppies. And then she'll imagine the puppies and her smile lights up.
Speaker 02:Right.
Matthew Lederman:So, you know, some people can naturally connect to that joy minute by minute. Other people, you give them an image or an experience and they can reconnect to it. And Kylie needs golden retriever puppies. So we don't say cheese in our family. We say golden retriever puppies.
Alona Pulde:Yes. Who won't smile at that, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think there's magic in connecting to that presence and that choice. I'm also curious... because I think that's hard, right? What you shared is medium belt where you chose to show up in a given way and you received responses that validated your experience. But what happens, you know, we're watching Ted Lasso now and I love that show. And one of the things that I love most about that show is he chooses to show up as himself, regardless of what else is happening, because that's who he is, not because he's seeking something from others. But I'm curious, like, when it gets hard is, had you come down the mountain like that and people weren't receptive?
Matthew Lederman:Yes.
Alona Pulde:Or weren't open?
Matthew Lederman:Yeah, and to me, that's the baby steps. I think, you know, excuse me, I think to... set yourself up for success. And, you know, I had multiple, you know, there were a few people that were looking away or looking down, but every single person that I made eye contact with responded. They might've responded differently. So yes, the goal would be to be able to show up and have no attachment to how somebody responded. But I just, for me, this was valuable because I got some type of validation that- Yes. how I show up affects how people show up with me.
Alona Pulde:Well, it's building your practice, which I think is fantastic. And so I don't want to downplay the beauty of that. The reason that I brought it up is because I think that second scenario shows up a lot in parenthood. You know, where even when we choose to show up, you know, grounded and calm and collected and empathic, um, our children respond completely with reactivity.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah, and that's where I think it depends. If we're trying to shift their state or their emotion, if we're attached to that, that's the challenge. But if we can sit with them and just really feel with them the pain that they're feeling in that moment, there'll be a connection. To me, it's a felt sense. It's not so much what comes out of their mouth, what they say, but can you just soften into presence with them, whatever their state is? That happened last night where I was, you know, Jordan was very upset about something. And all I said to myself is, because she actually asked for a heart hug. And I said, okay, Matt, this is pretty clear what she wants. Success tonight is just staying with her pain. Even though I had a pretty good idea of what was causing it, I was pretty clear what would fix it. And I had a lot of good advice to give her, but I stayed with the pain. And the giving advice was easy. Staying with the pain was hard, so that was actually more challenging for me. But what was really great was at the end, she said, Dad, you give the best heart hugs. And I was like, thank God I held that advice back. And she figured it out. And today she had all sorts of ideas of, you know, and her mood shifted to, you know. So that was reassuring. But in the moment, all I got was she was sad. You know, she was upset. And I did not get a smile back. So to your point, it can be much harder when you don't get that validation. But if you are clear like Ted Lasso around how you're going to show up and you're connecting to your aliveness.
Unknown:Mm-hmm.
Matthew Lederman:And you're coming from a love energy, even if you're reflecting pain. But it's that love energy versus the numbness or trying to shift something. Like to me, the other energies are like numbness or trying to change somebody's state, resistance or grasping. That type of energy is going to feel very different.
Alona Pulde:And I think just to honor that, sometimes that's where we are. We are in that, for lack of a better word, negative space. We don't have the empathy. We cannot tap into our joy. We are in our own pain, and we're present to that pain, and we want to honor that presence. And that's a moment to really practice not being available for somebody else's heart hug.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah.
Alona Pulde:I mean,
Matthew Lederman:tell me about it. I mean, this has been my journey, especially over the last few months, around not being able to connect to my joy and my presence and really working hard, which is the paradox. I'm working hard to solve and get somewhere, and all I need to do is show up where I already am. And it's very challenging. You know, I think... you had a quote in one of your Substack articles. I don't know if it was one you just released, but it was something about presence doesn't need, you know, I know it was more time, but instead it just needs more noticing or something like that. I can't remember. Aliveness. Oh, aliveness. All right, so I butchered the quote. But to me, that was it just, aliveness doesn't need more time. It just needs more noticing. And I think if we go through our day and can do that, it just changes. It changes everything. And that's what my hike today, which I did not expect this to happen. I expected to go on my hike and maybe, you know, I was going to listen to a book on tape and something really magical happened for me.
Alona Pulde:Yeah, I love that. So how do we help parents lean into that?
Matthew Lederman:So the tool... that I like is, to me, what I thought of was this reverse fame circuit. So, you know, to me, it was about being famous and people are excited to see you and it's this amazing response to you. But instead, to me, it's like, first, there's set your scene. And I think that was really helpful with that song, for example, the Blessings by Hollow Coves. Listen to it, but listen to it to feel. And to me, this is not something you're going to do in the middle of making dinner, this tool. I mean, you could, I guess, do it. But when you're first learning it, it's just practice it like I was doing on a mountain where you have a lot of time and space and there's no one else yelling at you or asking you to do things for them. And just set your body, get that felt sense of gratitude. And the song's all about gratitude. And just connect to your love for life. And feel it. Let your breathing change. Let your mind pause that busyness, all those thoughts that I was having. Try and notice them and then ask them to take a little break. You can get back to them later. And then feel it. Where in your body? I was feeling a warmth. I was feeling a tingling in my arms. My energy was up. It was expansive. I noticed a softening in my chest. I was breathing more deeply. So again, notice and feel And meet that. And sometimes you'll notice some tension. You know, you have a headache or you have some pain in your neck. And I like to talk to the sensations and, hey, what are those sensations holding for me? I don't always ask what they want because that implies that I'm trying to fix them or change them. So I check in. I'm saying, oh, you know, head pain or tension in my neck. What are you holding for me? And I talk to them like they're a person, which again makes me sound a little crazy here. But it's a way for me to connect with my body. So different techniques for self-connection. So first set the scene. We did it with a song. Then you feel. And then soften your gaze. You can look at your child or partner. Look at them the way you'd look at a glowing tree. You're just looking at them with... just trying to connect to the love that you feel for them. Because even when you're in a fight, this happens with clients a lot. I'll say, I know we're in an empathy collision now, but before we just remember that we've been here before and at the other side of this, we always get to seeing people's good intentions and connection and love for each other. So just trust that we're going to get there again, even if you're not feeling it in the moment. So you start to look at them with that love, look at them like a glowing tree and let that Just soften. Let yourself soften, just even if it's 1%. And then let the smile rise. Let it move from your belly to your chest and just start to come out of you. I think to me that was different versus when I would smile because my head was telling me I should smile versus my body filling me up with a smile. And it really helps for me, maybe other people too, to have these images. And some people are more felt. Some people are more visual. Maybe some people think or connect in sound. But feel your body filling up with that smile and let it come from within you. And you're smiling not to manipulate or change somebody, but to contribute to them. So you're smiling to contribute. You have this loving energy that you want to give to somebody else. And then hold that connection. Hold it for... Two seconds longer than you might. So when I look at you and I give you this loving energy of connection, just make that eye contact. And when you make the eye contact, just hold it for a second. You're giving them a gift. You want to make sure they got it. They're going to respond energetically to your gift. Smile. Their facial expressions will change. And then receive. Again, receive what comes back when they send it back to you. Don't rush past that. And sometimes when we're nervous or we have social anxieties, we rush past this. And that connection energy doesn't have a chance to take hold. So taking that extra minute could be anything that happens, but let it be received. And again, you're not measuring to see if it worked or not. You're just letting it be received. And this happened, I do this with the kids, I'm realizing as I'm sharing this. Like at night, I'll be sitting next to, I was sitting next to Jordan the other day, And I looked at her and I just felt in my body a lot of love. It's very easy with the kids for me to connect to warmth and my heart. And I looked at her and I said, oh, Jordi, you know, it's just so nice being next to you. I just feel happy. My heart builds up just to be next to you and sit with you and be with you for a minute or two here. And thank you for just sitting next to me. And to me, what's exciting about that was it felt really wonderful. And then she smiled and looked back at me and said, Thank you, Dad. And then she gave me a kiss on my nose. But it was very sweet because there's this connection energy that's happening between us. It doesn't take very long, but as much as it helps the other person, it really fills me up.
Alona Pulde:I love that. And what resonated most to me here is how you're using presence and our choice in how we want to show up to get this connected felt sense. And I was thinking, you know, yes, in moments where we wanna connect to our gratitude, where we wanna connect to our love, that's a fantastic practice. And it also translates to when we're having more unpleasant emotions. You know, I know... My family knows, and you're going to laugh, but I connect to emotions through songs. And my family already knows. I have like three songs that I'm constantly listening to. There's Tomorrow in Annie. There's Raindrops on Roses from Sound of Music. And there's I Could Have Danced All Night from My Fair Lady. And I Could Have Danced All Night is when I'm excited and all's good in the world. And if I'm feeling sad, it's the Sound of Music song. And if I'm just hoping for a better tomorrow, it's tomorrow. But I thought, you know, that listening to even those songs and generating whatever aliveness is there, whether it's sadness or hope for something different, you know, and being present with that offers a connected state as well. When I'm sad and I'm able to vulnerably lean into, I'm really sad right now. you guys connect back with that if you're available for it, right? But you connect back with an empathic space for me to not only be sad, but for me to be seen and loved in that moment of sadness. And that speaks to how you said, I want to be seen authentically and fully.
Matthew Lederman:Yes, and that allows you to connect to yourself, but then also connect to the other person. So instead of smiling, you're singing the song. And then the other people could sing with you or just be next to you. But to me, it's about that energy that you're creating that's authentic to what's alive in you in that minute.
Alona Pulde:Yes. And in that presence, again, you choose how you want to show up. When When I feel sad or I feel angry and I'm using so much energy to repress and suppress that, the cost of that is huge. I will be shorter with the family. My own inner critic is misunderstanding or not giving me space to be seen. So there's a hair trigger for anything else that my family might do to validate that inner critic and that inner voice. And so it's interesting how that ripple effect, the repression and suppression and the cost of that versus showing up authentically, whatever that looks like,
Matthew Lederman:Because the life energy from an NVC perspective, nonviolent communication, is beautiful and connecting. The problem is when we're sad, but we're communicating it through blame and criticism. And then sharing that is not going to feel connecting.
Alona Pulde:Or our own sense of shame.
Matthew Lederman:Yes.
Alona Pulde:Which is disconnecting. Like, oh, I'm always sad or I'm always angry. I'm always tense. And this is cause, you know. Right,
Matthew Lederman:I'm not good enough.
Alona Pulde:Right, I'm not good enough and all of that.
Matthew Lederman:And it's okay to have those thoughts and feelings, but then it's to dig deeper to spend time with your shame will get you to whatever's underneath, which is the sadness or other pain. So you can do this both ways. And the reason I was excited to bring up this topic around the smiling and the joy is that we have to practice this stuff. Because if you're only focused on learning how to navigate unpleasant feelings and healing trauma, which is very important, but you're not also heading towards what you love or experiencing what you love in that moment because you're so busy focusing on all the pain, you build these these patterns or these neural networks or these habits that are focused on, are only focused on pain.
Speaker 02:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:So to me, it's also important that we create a habit of cultivating joy because that's not something most people do naturally.
Alona Pulde:And that that joy comes from within.
Matthew Lederman:Yes. Not from your head saying you should be joyful, but it's coming from your body and your heart.
Alona Pulde:And not from waiting for external circumstances to direct or dictate that joy.
Matthew Lederman:Exactly. So I think this is really important. We don't want to look externally or we don't want our head to try and create it. We want to feel it in our body and let it manifest and then it comes out and our head will be aware of it and externally will be affected by it. But it starts from inside, in our heart, in our soul.
Alona Pulde:And I think you hit a very resonant point, which is that We all want to feel joy and we all long for joy and we think it's just out of reach. And I think that's one of the things that allows the mirroring to happen so readily is when you're connected to your joy, you almost give permission. You're the external driver for other people to tap into their joy. Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. I like that. I like them. And it's tough when you're a parent and you're in survival mode and you're overwhelmed. And then you think, well, if I just get the kids, you know, off to college, then I'll be able to feel joy. And then they come home after college and you're like, oh, God. And they don't go to college. Or they don't go to college and you give up and you wait another four years. And this is the other thing is that sometimes it's subtle. but it's subtle and then it sort of gets stronger and stronger. It's hard to explain, but when you're really in the depth of the shadow state, I call it, where it's just so hard to see anything from the light, where you're just, life just feels really hard and miserable. Sometimes it's hard. to see joy. And I think that at that point, it's not about trying to force joy, to your point, it's about connecting to the pain. But then once you connect to that pain, there's a sweet sort of integration of that experience, and then joy can be right around the corner too. So it's just pretty interesting how it all builds. And I thought this was a fun example. This episode of We Be Parents is brought to you by We Be Calm. The Child Calmer designed by doctors and loved by parents.
Alona Pulde:Struggling with bedtime routines or managing your child's anxiety? WeBeCalm transforms deep breathing into a fun and engaging activity, helping kids find their inner calm. Perfect for bedtime stressful moments or any time your child needs a little extra help to stay calm. Visit WeBeCalm.com to learn more and bring tranquility to your family. We be calm because we be in this together. You hear it in so many different places. I think Henry Ford said, whether you think you can or you can't, you're right. You know, that our thoughts really drive our actions or, you know, Martin Luther King has that saying. famous quote about darkness cannot put out darkness. It's the light that has to do that. But once you allow the light in, the light shines and you can make it shine brighter and brighter. And that's part of that choice, that connection to this is how I want to show up.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. And that's what I think what comes down to. What everybody wants is to feel fulfilled, to feel their life energy flowing. That's all they want. And I had this thought where I would say, oh, I'm going to Runyon Canyon tomorrow. And then I thought, Joy doesn't live on Runyon Canyon. I can have it on the elevator. I can have it in the house. And I think once you see how it's everywhere, it's just waiting to be captured and to be experienced.
Alona Pulde:I think that's where the gratitude practice is so helpful. People feel And I find myself in that camp of people that I've just referenced is, oh, you know, gratitude practice. It sounds so cliche. I have to find gratitude. I don't actually, what surprises me every time, I don't have to find gratitude. There are so many things I'm naturally grateful for. I'm just not connected to them when I allow my pain to override all of that, you know, disconnect me from all the things that I'm actually grateful for. Yeah. I can't help but feel blessed and feel joy for all those things.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. I mean, it really is everywhere. When I was walking up the mountain, I was like, oh, I'm glad that... Look at this. I can walk with my feet and my back feels good. And oh, look at the bushes. It's sunny out. Look, there's no fires. It's all clear and the air is crisp. I saw a pile of poop. I was like... Well, there's nothing really special about that. Moved on. But you know what I mean? You're looking all around and depending on, oh, I'm breathing and feeling clear. And, you know, there's so many things that then I was like, well, is this silly? You know, there's the thought brain that likes to judge everything. Is this silly? And then I was like, but if this feels alive, why is it silly?
Speaker 02:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:But I guess at some point, you know, we were educated or the culture or society told us, you know,
Alona Pulde:Yeah. Right. Yeah. Versus if you're happy, it's almost like that's an end point. Versus no, that's still part of the process. And out of that process evolves so much more beauty.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. And I imagine if your teacher is trying to get students to do things and they're just sitting there, pleased as punch, you know, enjoying the fresh air. And, you know, at certain points they probably use different tactics to get students kids for example to fall in line and to do things they didn't want to do and you know so you had to you almost had to just help teach them how to disconnect to be able to get certain things done so how would you respond to somebody that says well hey sitting there and being present is not gonna pay the electric bill and it's not going to put dinner on the table
Alona Pulde:That's exactly it. I don't think that you need to sit there, just sit there and be present. I think you are present in your moment and your presence is connecting to the choice of how you want to show up. So you gave that example about teaching. But when has a teacher really ever been able to effectively motivate a classroom by yelling at them or threatening them? They might in the moment do what the teacher says, and then the minute the teacher's back is turned, they're back to whatever they were doing. But if you can connect them to the joy of this experience, the joy of the learning that they're about to have, they're going to dive into that. And so I think that's what we often forget. We are programmed to think that presence means connection. I'm just sitting there doing nothing. No. Presence means I'm aware of where I am in the moment and the choice that I'm making in this moment is a connected choice. Not I'm a victim of my life. I'm choosing in this moment of presence.
Matthew Lederman:How I'm going to show up.
Alona Pulde:How I'm going to
Matthew Lederman:show up. And that impacts your children and your partner more than anything else is how you show up in the moment I think it models
Alona Pulde:for them, too. It models for them. You show them, one, that you're in choice, two, that you're empowered to be accountable for how you show up, and that you can still be effective and productive and have the rainbow of emotions in your presence.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. Good stuff.
Alona Pulde:Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:Do you want to give an example? I think we've done it a little bit, but if we were going to summarize a no skills to pro skills situation, do you have one?
Alona Pulde:Yeah. This happens between you and I even, you know, sometimes where one of us will be feeling all these pleasant sensations and another one will be really struggling. For example, you may come in and you're feeling all well and good and happy and positive and grateful. And I'm grumbling about something that's not working for me. And I'm not able to receive that happiness. I reject it. I don't want to hear about how happy you are. I'm miserable. And the response is from you to shut down, to shut down your own joy and also any space you have for me to be where I am, right? And so that ability not to choose to show up as you are regardless of what's happening, you know, that happens to me a lot with Kylie. Kylie, when she gets upset, just kind of shuts down. And it is unavailable. And then I get triggered. And then I become unavailable. And now we're at an empathy collision that it's completely disconnected. Versus, okay, she's unavailable, but I'm not going to choose to do that in this moment. I'm going to connect to my choice to stay grounded or joyful or grateful or whatever that is. And I think that would be the pro skills is connecting. You enter, you're smiling, you're soft, you're feeling however you're feeling. And then I think even if another person is unavailable for that, you know, that you stay grounded to you. But also I truly believe that, I mean, just like today, you know, you came in, there was so much magical energy in you. It's hard not to absorb that. And for that to even shift a foul mood in somebody else.
Matthew Lederman:No, it's interesting you say that, because when I came home, I noticed I was so excited by the experience, but I didn't wanna say it too much. Almost like if you didn't hold space for that, it would have been disappointing for me. So I'd rather play it down than share Like, oh, I almost had tears in my eyes because I've been trying so hard to experience some of this stuff that we've been talking about and reading about. And then I feel like it just sort of, I got this sense of hope and optimism that, hey, I think I'm getting it. And I think that I can see what's possible, even though I'm so conditioned to show up differently. So interesting to say that you felt a difference because I felt myself holding back.
Alona Pulde:That just says how big that moment was for you that still felt, it was still felt even as it was dampened.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah, interesting.
Alona Pulde:Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:All right, well, so the bring it home, I love this, explain it, invite it, model it, and practice it.
Speaker 02:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:And to me, the explaining it is explaining, hey, This is what helps me feel more connected. I'd love to try this. Can we listen to a song together and just notice what we feel in our bodies? Or you might say, hey, can we sing this when we're sad? The next time we're sad, can we try singing the song and just seeing how that impacts us? Does that help us connect more to our body or does it make us feel more distant, feel like pressure? But just explaining, I'd like to try something that helps us really feel the energy that's floating around inside of us. And then invite it. And to me, not only talking about it, but holding the smile a little bit longer invites something your way. So letting that feeling just percolate a little bit more invites it. Do you want to add to that at all?
Alona Pulde:No, I love it. I think that's pretty comprehensive.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. So invite, explain it, invite it not only with your words, but in your body language and then model it. So I do that where I'll say, oh, this is what happened to me when I listened to the song or, you know, I'll tell them the story about the mountain when they come home from school and I'll say, hey, you know, let me tell you about what happened to me on the mountain. And that to me is modeling. And I'll say, if you ever have experiences like that, hey, will you please share share them with me because it helps me. And I always like to tell the kids, you guys are great role models for me because you guys experience this stuff and then you come back and tell me. Jordan told me, he said, dad, can I tell you, I had the best watermelon today. It was the best. It was the perfect crunch, dad. And when you crunched on it, the juice shot out of the watermelon and it was so sweet. It wasn't too sweet, but it was sweet enough and it was delicious, dad. I think today was the best watermelon I've ever had in my life. And talk about like connecting to something. And I'm like, I want more of those moments where she was so present to this watermelon.
Speaker 02:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:So practice it, practice it, practice it. When they do it, highlight it, invite it, ask them to do it. When you do it, bring up situations. The more you can infuse that into the home, the more it's going to become second nature.
Alona Pulde:Yes. And I think you shared that earlier is that initially, because it's so foreign, it's really about cultivating it, mindfully cultivating it until it becomes habitual.
Matthew Lederman:Yes. Yes. All right. So we have to leave everybody with one last thing. What would you
Alona Pulde:say? This is your moment. What would you say is the last thing?
Matthew Lederman:I would say you do not have to wait until you're famous to be seen.
Alona Pulde:I love that. I love that. Practice being seen in the here and now. Well, thank you so much for listening today. We really, really ask that if this resonated with you to please, please, please subscribe and pass on the podcast to others that you think might benefit from listening to it. We also encourage you guys to give us feedback, send comments, send stories, send questions
Matthew Lederman:Your letters. We'd love to hear questions, experiences you tried, what went well, what didn't. You can email us, parents at bbtogether.com. And definitely stay tuned and come back next week when we listen to the letters, read through them, headlines.
Alona Pulde:We actually share those letters that you share with us, so thank
Matthew Lederman:you. Exactly. So thank everybody for listening.
Alona Pulde:Yeah, thank you very much.