webe Parents
Welcome to "webe Parents" with Dr. Alona Pulde and Dr. Matthew Lederman! We're parents first, doctors second, and life coaches third, blending nutrition, lifestyle, and connection medicine with nonviolent communication to help families thrive. In each episode, we'll share our "Cheers & Tears," dive into our "Topic & Tool," go from "No Skills to Pro Skills," "Bring It Home," and wrap up with "One Last Thing." Join us as we share stories, skills, and tips to help bring your family closer together using our professional expertise.
Thanks for listening!
Dr. Matthew Lederman & Dr. Alona Pulde
webe Parents
Ep. 41: What happens when we stop caring for our partners the way we care for our kids?
Is your relationship running on logistics and low fuel? This episode calls out what so many parents feel but never name — the subtle, painful erosion of connection with the person you once couldn’t stop touching. 😮💨 Matt and Alona get real about what happens when we pour everything into our kids and forget to show up for our partners... and ourselves.
🧠 Matt & Alona share personal moments that will feel uncomfortably familiar:
- That moment you vent your frustrations without warning — and accidentally trigger a defensive warzone.
- The difference between showing up for your kids with warmth and for your partner with efficiency.
- How micro-moments of care (yes, even 30 seconds) can shift everything.
Have a Kinectin Account? Explore these Nudges to see how they apply to your own life — in a way only Amari can.
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Producer:Welcome to We Be Parents, where parent doctors Matthew Letterman and Alona Polday explore current parenting topics, share stories, and help bring families closer together.
Alona Pulde:Welcome to We Be Parents, where we explore the joys and challenges of parenting and help families grow closer together. Hi, I'm Dr. Alona Polde. And hi,
Matthew Lederman:I'm
Alona Pulde:Dr. Matthew
Matthew Lederman:Letterman.
Alona Pulde:And today we're diving into something many of us feel but don't always name. What happens when we stop showing up for ourselves and for each other the way we show up for our kids? And we took a moment to notice this recently. So we're going to share our personal experiences with this particular topic and have it live for us.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah, I think this one's important because it affects, I believe it affects everybody, but it definitely affects us where we're showing up and it's almost like we take the relationship for granted because we're tired, we're putting it out there for work or for kids and for everybody else, and then you and me were just like, you know, just almost like let it, you know, take it easy. I don't want any more work, but I think it really, when we connected about it, it was a little bit sad, right, when we thought about that?
Alona Pulde:Yeah, we'll talk about the evolution of it, but in this momentary presence, Matt, how are you doing?
Matthew Lederman:Okay, so I'm going to step away from the topic for a second. How am I doing in the moment? I'm doing really well. I've been playing around, really focusing on how I show up and my intention every day. And then even within the day, self-connection. And it's been a good couple of days. Bumpy, though. So there'll be mornings where I get up and I'm like, oof. I don't know how this is going to go today. And then other times where I just sort of, you know, can really shift. And that's what I've been playing with, shifting my state and my thoughts and my focus. And that's really affected me positively.
Alona Pulde:Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:Have you noticed how positive
Alona Pulde:that's been affected? Oh, so very positive. Floating on air.
Matthew Lederman:I'm finding that hard to believe. But I'm serious. I mean, all kidding aside, showing up, like we have more control over how we show up than I think... I let myself believe.
Alona Pulde:I absolutely agree with
Matthew Lederman:that. I was talking to my brother and it was this image that I got where someone's standing in front of a conveyor belt in a factory and life is just putting things and running things in front of that person and they're stuck and they're hoping that joy sort of passes them on the conveyor belt and they're like, well, eventually that'll happen. They're waiting versus someone else is running around the factory sort of looking for joy and aliveness not waiting for it to be presented in front of him on the conveyor belt and that's sort of what I feel like and then I guess when I become a guru I'll be able to stand still again and find joy in every moment but right now I'm sort of running around oh
Alona Pulde:you're actively seeking it versus passively waiting for it to come to you which I I resonate with and I think that's fantastic.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. So how about you? How are you doing?
Alona Pulde:I am doing great. I am nursing a horse voice as our listeners might hear because I spent the weekend yelling, cheering for Jordan and Kylie who were in the production of Annie. And so I'm now still A horse. Yeah, still hearing that in my voice. But for all good things, all good things. The
Matthew Lederman:kids always joke because they can always hear mom cheering through all the different cheers.
Alona Pulde:Yes, I cheer through the production. Can't say anything to them after because I don't have a voice anymore. But they'll hear me while they're on stage. They do, yes. And I am celebrating casual... Tuesday. Or I have so declared it to be. Now officially has me a Tuesday. Yes, for those listeners who aren't going to be watching us, I am wearing a Peter Pan shirt that says never grow up. And I... I like that message because I really think that when you connect to that childlike state of wonder and presence and the excitement around novelty, you know, that we as adults forget often. And I think it's part and parcel to this topic of kind of getting lost in adulthood and adulting. And forgetting what it means to connect to that joy, to connect to that novelty, to connect that wonder, to connect to that wandering. You know, just like you said, you don't have to run around the factory, but you can walk around with fascination and excitement and openness, you know, to be able to be ready and open to absorb joy. So, yes. So I'm resonating with all of that.
Matthew Lederman:So you're ready, you're open. To absorb.
Alona Pulde:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. It's all around you.
Alona Pulde:It is. It is.
Matthew Lederman:It's up to absorb it.
Alona Pulde:Yes. Like a sponge. So you
Matthew Lederman:are a sponge. All right. Well. For better or for worse, I am a sponge. Before we jump in, we definitely want people to subscribe. That helps us out a lot. So please take a moment to hit that subscribe button.
Alona Pulde:Yes. And share with friends. If it resonates with you, share with a friend.
Matthew Lederman:Even if it doesn't resonate, share it with friends. We're not picky here.
Alona Pulde:There we go. All right. So the topic of today. So many parents spend, you know, energy is finite, right? Our energy is finite. And how we use it in the day sometimes happens in such a default automatic mode. And we don't recognize the depletion and the cost on the other end of that. And so many of us show up in, you know, take a ton of this energy to really show up for our kids, right? And by the time, you know, we show up with patience, we show up with tenderness, with care. But when it comes to your partner, there's very little left. And so there's this dismissing transactional relationships that sometimes lack warmth and connection. And it's kind of a hanging in there and just getting by, right?
Matthew Lederman:And we are sort of, as parents, we're tag teaming and we're not only getting by, but we're sort of using all of our energy just to give to the kids and other people that we forget to give to each other sometimes.
Alona Pulde:Yeah. Empathy is replaced by logistics and intimacy by efficiency. It does lack joy and heart.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. I like that. Say that again. Empathy is...
Alona Pulde:So empathy is replaced by logistics. It becomes really transactional. Hey, can you take out the trash while I wash the dishes? Hey, can you help the girls with that while I'm helping? Can you help Kylie with that while I'm helping Jordan with this? And intimacy by efficiency. There's so much that you're trying to pack in for them or for the family unit.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. I noticed that shows up in different ways. That shows up if, even if I'm going to vent about something, I'm going to sort of check with the kids. I'm going to say it differently so the language lands a little easier for them to hear. But with you, I might just unload into venting. I'm not going to care. I think I'm not aware about, hey, or checking in. How is that for you? Are you in a place to even hear it and receive it? And how is it? So that's one way. I think also with the kids, I'll come up and I'll give them a little kiss on the cheek or I'll joke with them or in the good morning, I'll give them a big hug. And with you, I'll say good morning, but maybe sometimes it's not as big a hug or I'm not going to come up and joke with you because I see that you're busy with something and I have a story that, oh, she might not want to be interrupted. Or I tickle them and, oh, you're not going to like to be tickled. You know, and they laugh and maybe you won't. And I think we just sort of develop these sort of like subconscious rules around things like that.
Alona Pulde:And I think there is the part of the relationship that's different. You and I have responsibility to run a household. Children don't have that. So the interaction with them is rarely transactional. Right. Right. So there's a lot of room for heart. And so I I think the trick is how do we– because there needs to be efficiency and there needs to be productivity and there needs to be logistics in running a household. But how can you do that and also find space and time for connecting at the heart level?
Matthew Lederman:Exactly. That's the key is that we have agreed– don't have to. We've agreed to do things to run a house and a family– that you don't have to do that with kids. You don't have to do that with friends and coworkers. So it's a little bit of a different thing. And that's why I think today's episode is exciting because how can we bring that in and not lose, we're not saying to lose the transactional stuff that, that serves a purpose.
Alona Pulde:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:But you know, you remember little and kids would come down and say, and you'd be like, Oh, good morning. How are you doing? And I said, I want a little bit of that special love and see what that's like. So I hid behind her as she was walking in.
Alona Pulde:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:And I was like, I'll get some indirectly. And I think it was partially funny. Then there was a part of you, I think, that maybe even heard criticism, like that you're not or took it. I'm not sure how it landed for you. But at the heart, underneath any of this inner critic type of thoughts was, hey, we just want a little more love. And both of us do. And I think when we connected to that, it made a big difference.
Alona Pulde:Makes a big difference. And I think that's one of the things that's so easily forgotten is we, it's almost like we feel it's our job to love our children, to care for our children, to support our children. And we forget that. to love each other, to care for each other, to support each other. There's this belief that, oh, you and I as equals, you take care of yourself, I'll take care of myself. We'll figure it out. And there's a taking for granted in that. We stop asking permission. We stop checking in. You talked about one of the things that results from that is that verbal dump. We'll just come and dump something on somebody I'll come just dump some frustration on you without checking in with, where are you? Are you even available to hear this? Something that I would never just do with the girls.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. And just checking, you know, really checking in first with care around that. And there's also logistics, like there's times where you're ready to connect with me and I'm busy working, or there's times where I'm ready to connect with you and you're busy with something. So on top of it, we're also busy and doing things and can that stuff align? I mean, you're already super busy and you're already overloaded and under-resourced. How do you make all that work?
Alona Pulde:Yeah. And I know we had a previous episode about micro-connections and that's one strategy that you know, taking very intentional time to connect with one another throughout a day where it doesn't have to be big. It can be, you know, 30 seconds. It can be a minute. It can be a couple minutes, depending on how much time and space and resourcing you have. But this is a little bit different. This is coming to the relationship with that intentionality. And, yes, the tool that we're going to talk about is maybe be a training that is a more deliberate exercise around it. But the exercise around it is to build a general intention around how we show up for each other.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. And I think that's at the core. This is one tool around one way of interacting. But at the core is I am going to think about the impact on the other person. So I'm not just sending the package. It's almost like if I have a ball in my hand and I'm, do I just lob the ball at you and say, good luck? Or do I say, hey, I wonder if she wants to catch a ball. Is she ready to catch a ball? I throw the ball and I check in, you know, is that ball too heavy? How's it going? So there's a little more care versus just, you know, lobbing life at the other person.
Alona Pulde:And I think that the cost of that accumulates, right? And, you know, you see it a lot in movies where couples that have been together for a long time start missing each other. And then there's a lot of relevance attached to every time they miss each other. Oh, this is him again doing that. This is her again doing this. And we start labeling and categorizing, judging our partners in these categories. And those categories are unpleasant. They're always about how they're falling short. And then you just add to that list. You add to that list.
Matthew Lederman:And it's actually what I was introducing at the beginning. How we show up makes all of this easier or harder. So if I show up with an intention of connection and care, just being present, I'm going to automatically start doing this stuff in a way that when I'm not present and I'm not having that intention of connection and care, it's just going to be different. So as we're talking, I don't know how much we were going to get into this part, but it's not only what you do, but also the energy that you show up with. And I've been finding that making a big difference with you is, you know, I walk by and I just put my hand on your shoulder for a second. But it's not to check off a box. It's really just to take a couple of
Alona Pulde:seconds. It's a G-rated version. No, it's just K.
Matthew Lederman:Oh, shit. We have to cut this out? So, but I mean, putting my hand on your shoulder and then just sort of checking in like, hey, you know, taking a couple of seconds. to just connect with you. And I know that, you know, it's not just to me, there's micro connection, but there's like this energy behind it. That's so important. And that energy also will inform like when I want to vent or when I want to talk about something or when I don't like something, you know, even when we were talking before and we were just spending time together and, and you were talking about some worries about the kids and some worries about a couple other things. And I said, Hey, you know, maybe we could just be present now, and then we could talk about these worries later. Whereas in before, I might have said, oh, you know, let me, you know, be a good husband and here are her worries. Or I might have said, you know, why are you always talking about worries? You know, let's be, either way, right? I could have forced myself or I could have come out a little harsh. And what we're talking about today is how to come in with that care and that kindness.
Alona Pulde:So if you've been listening to us for a while, you know we get a lot of questions about what to do in tricky parenting or relationship moments.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah, and if I'm being real, I'm asking Alona those same questions all the time. I get into those same tricky moments as everybody else does. As much as we wish we could be there for each other in those exact moments, we just can't always be.
Alona Pulde:Yeah, that's why we partnered with the amazing team at Connecton to create something we truly believe in, an AI coach called Amari. And we didn't just lend our names, we helped build it and train it and brought in everything we've learned about emotional healing, connection and communication. Yeah,
Matthew Lederman:we spent years training and learning and we've created Amari who is so calm and grounded, listens deeply and responds with warmth, clarity and compassion. There's no judgment, no reactivity. In fact, we tasked our children with trying to get Amari reactive and they still haven't succeeded. It's just steady support when you need it most.
Alona Pulde:We use it ourselves all the time, especially when we feel stuck or overwhelmed. And Amari's really helped us pause, reflect, given us insight that helps us come back to each other.
Matthew Lederman:We designed Amari to help you strengthen the relationships that matter most, starting with the one you have with yourself.
Alona Pulde:And we are so excited that you can try it now at WeBeParents.com and click on WeBeConnecting with a K to sign up. And when you have your Amari moment, please let us know as we'd love to hear about it. You know, one of the questions that playing devil's advocate, one of the questions that I imagine could arise is, well, how do you forget years and years of X, Y, and Z? Because there's so much built up resentment and anger and repression and suppression of all these unmet needs that have gone unmet for such a long time. And I think not to... forget or to erase the past. But I think if there is a mutual commitment to showing up differently, then there has to be some compassion and grace to release the past and allow for presence in something different. But you sharing that example today was really helpful because not only sharing what you might have done in the past, sucked it up. And then who knows what the cost of that would be on the other end, but also that you were able to speak up and that that was actually very helpful for me to shift me into presence. And I was grateful for that.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. And that felt good. And then even checking, Hey, how was that for you? So we did something and we checked how it landed and there has to be trust that you're going to speak up if it didn't land well. And you have to have trust that if it didn't land well, I can hear it. So there's a lot of trust building. Yeah. Yes. That needs to happen.
Alona Pulde:Yeah. And ultimately, it's the authenticity, I think, that I really valued. Because if 30 minutes down the road, you're like, oh, why are you always complaining? Why do I just have to hear this for 30 minutes? I hate that. Then I get triggered. Why didn't you just say something 20 minutes ago? Why am I going on and on thinking you're receptive to what I'm sharing?
Unknown:Right.
Alona Pulde:And then there's this huge cost. I never would have asked, you know, or I never would have shared in this moment had I known what the cost is on the other end. And so I think there's so much value in that authenticity aspect. So I really appreciated that you shared that. I mean, not only it felt good to release that stuff and to actually focus on the present, that's another example how we can so easily get lost in all of the things that need to get done, all of the things that need to be fixed, all of the things that require our attention in some way or another to repair. Yeah. But that really robs us of experiencing the present, of connection, of joy, of whatever arises from that moment.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. Well, you know, I want to also just comment on something you said right before that, which was that the past sort of colors the present. And that's actually a choice. I'm not saying it's not there and there might be work and repair and cleanup. But if I said for the next hour or the next 30 minutes, you know, you and your partner just be playful and fun. Don't think about anything you have to do. Don't think about the past. Let go of any judgments about the other person for 30 minutes. You could probably find, you know, have some fun. You could probably joke around and banter and And we've all had those moments, even in the worst of times, where the banter just sort of flows really nicely. So if you can do that for 30 minutes, you can do that for an hour. You can do that indefinitely. And I think that we don't realize how much power we have based on just choosing how we show up. In fact, last week's episode was, you know, I could change how the world shows up around me and how I'm received just based on how I show up. And that can happen in the home as well.
Alona Pulde:Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's why I was saying, if you are mutually committed, then there's the choice to have compassion and grace and let go, not carry the past into the present, not carry the past into the future. Because if that's what you're doing, then there is no room for change. You're going to be stuck in the same circumstance. And that is a choice.
Matthew Lederman:Exactly. Well, good stuff. Yeah. So we've been, we've been talking for a while and we got to jump in to the tool or we want to.
Alona Pulde:Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:A little bit more about the tool. Well, you know, I was thinking before we jump into the tool, actually, there's a couple of these anchors or core insights that we wrote down that I like. And I just thought we could go through a couple of those. I don't know if there's any that speak to you there, but I, I think one that I really liked was you haven't stopped loving each other. You've stopped showing it in ways that feel like love. And what I liked about that is the love is there. You really care about each other. But again, there's ways to show, there's ways to talk, there's ways to interact. And if we shift our focus and our actions and our thoughts... everything starts to shift and the love that's already there can come out again and not be, I think of it as the, is that what we call love and that tenderness and warmth and playfulness is really just getting smothered by our focus and our actions and our thoughts. What's your reaction to that?
Alona Pulde:Yeah, I, I completely resonate with that. I think it's, and I think so many of us, again, when we're in, default or an automatic you know running on on automatic we don't connect to that and and so yeah i think that's extremely valuable
Matthew Lederman:yeah and then any other ones you want to share from this
Alona Pulde:The one that I connected to, it's not one of the anchors, but it runs along the same vein that you were talking about, which is what if the distance in your relationship is not a sign of failure, but rather a call to return to intentional care? And so you were talking about, you know, coming and showing up in love, but even caring for your partner, being an anchor is, arriving with empathy and authenticity and vulnerability, putting a hand on a shoulder. All of that stuff and, you know, we run into that where we're dissatisfied. Needs have gone unmet for so long. We've repressed. We've suppressed. We haven't shared. And then we label and judge and categorize that into, you know, we've lost the love in the relationship. The relationship is a failure versus, well, wait a minute. No. Relationships take effort.
Matthew Lederman:Yes.
Alona Pulde:They don't happen passively.
Matthew Lederman:Life takes effort.
Alona Pulde:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:Life takes effort. And if you're sitting there passively waiting for joy or aliveness to show up on your doorstep, or you have this illusion that you're going to achieve some goal or get to some benchmark or some promotion or some amount of money, and all of a sudden you're going to have joy and aliveness and connection, it's an illusion. Yeah. And that's what I think. It's like the date nights don't matter anymore. It's how you speak to each other at 5.45 on a Tuesday. That's what matters. This is one I like. If you're not proud of how you're showing up, that's just your nervous system calling you home. That's just your body saying, hey, I know this isn't me. This is not me thriving. But it's not about people think there's something wrong with the relationship. And often, it's not the relationship that's the problem. It's how you're showing up with each other that's the problem.
Alona Pulde:I think that's important. And what happens, I think, and I know I've done that too, where I don't show up the way that I want to show up, but then either it's shame or I find excuses for that. Well, I didn't show up that way because Matt doesn't X, Y, and Z. And so we start placing blame on the other person. This is why I'm not showing up. Whereas... You know, this is, again, what you shared last week. If we change how we show up and we make that intentional decision to show up with care, with love, there is a mirroring effect that is so beautiful.
Matthew Lederman:That really, it just builds on each other. Yeah. You know, you don't lose connection all at once. You lose it in these missed micro moments, and those just add up.
Alona Pulde:I love that one, and I think that is so important. I just think of so many situations where marriages have gotten to the point where both partners think, oh, we're no longer in love, or this is not going to work. I think, well, if we're talking to them, how are they hearing that? What are they receiving here? And what kind of hope can they have for repair, rebuilding, and changing their situation? Obviously, assuming that they're both interested in doing
Matthew Lederman:sex. Yeah, I really, once, it's amazing when you focus on how you show up in life and with your partner. So if I shift, I call it, I remember FAT, F-A-T, for focus, action, and thoughts. So if I just shift, where am I putting my attention? Am I looking for all the problems? Am I focusing on everything that's not working, everything that I don't like? Or I can choose to focus on the things that are working and things that I do like. And as you do that, all of a sudden you see more. So where you focus and your actions... What are you doing? Are you just sort of walking around like this and you're all slumped and there's no movement in your posture? Or
Alona Pulde:you're bitter and you're angry and you're
Matthew Lederman:curt. Yeah. So it's the tone and all of that, everything that's coming. And then the thoughts are just thinking about all the problems and then You know, when someone doesn't respond, you say, oh, see, that's proof that they don't care about me. And, you know, you think that there's something wrong with the marriage. And you think that there's something wrong. And you start trying to diagnose all the problems. And your thoughts lead you down this path. And that you can also shift. You can have thoughts of, hey, we just sort of fell off the path here a little bit. But we know how to get back on the path. And we can think about our partner differently. And that's what today is about, is about shifting things. All of those pieces. And I think...
Alona Pulde:So I think that the ultimate message is it's never too late. If the parties are interested and the couples and the partners are willing, there's absolute hope. And from that hope, a bundle of abundance and joy that can be brought into a relationship. Exactly, exactly.
Matthew Lederman:This episode of We Be Parents is brought to you by We Be Calm. the child calmer designed by doctors and loved by parents.
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Matthew Lederman:This tool is this 30-second container. And the 30-second container is this check-in that creates this space between partners. And your needs, it's important that they can land with care instead of pressure. And we're doing it in the example of venting, where you just come down and start complaining about something, which we've all been there. I remember coming down and just complaining to you about one of the kids, and I just let loose. And it wasn't particularly nice either. Not towards you even, but it was about frustration with the kids. And if I had set it up and cared about the impact and been more clear about what I want back from you and how you can support me, it could have landed with so much more care. This came out of that because I thought about, oh, I could have done that so much differently. And it's not that venting, there's anything wrong with venting. It's natural. But when we do it without permission or presence, it can overwhelm and disconnect. And that, to me, this tool can bridge and can create that connection before this flood of emotion. Because venting is just, hey, someone's in pain and they're hurting. And they need someone to hold them with empathy, not to agree with their judgments, but to hold them with presence and empathy. And this tool creates a little space and separation that makes room for this care to really get a good footing. And that care can be the foundation. It's almost like putting a little blanket of care down. So the first thing is just to pause and to notice, to take a quick breath and notice if you're about to vent or complain or emotionally dump. I don't think we realize the impact that has on our partners. We're already struggling. We're already holding a lot. And if someone else comes and dumps their stuff on top of us, it's like just hits our shoulders, feels heavy. But we can change the weight of that. So just pause and notice and say, hey, I'm about to, there's something that I'm about to dump on my partner. The next would be just ask permission with care. Hey, I need to just get something off my chest here. Do you have space for that? If now doesn't work, I'm happy to do it later. See, I'm creating a little bit of space between me and whatever I'm about to vent, whatever this package of whatever you want to call it, this package of energy is. Let's give it a little space and prep before I lob it at you. And then set gentle expectations. I might use some judgments. I might, you know, I'm just trying to get to my feelings and needs. Can you help me identify some feelings and needs underneath my judgments if I'm speaking with lots of judgments? Don't get stuck on my words. I think telling and reminding your partner, don't get stuck on the words. Try and connect to my heart underneath the words. What is my pain? When people are venting, they're in pain. Help me get to the core of the pain, which is often the feelings and needs. And then after you set that expectation, receive with reflection, not fixing. So if you're the listener, that's where you want to respond with something like, hey, it just sounds like you're so overwhelmed and could really use some more ease right now. I bet that's a lot to hold. So you don't have to fix everything. That's not what you want to do. You want to just hear them and, if anything, reflect back feelings and ease. You could say something as simple as, I hear you. It sounds so heavy. And it's different. It's not the words. It's the energy behind the words, too. So I could say, yeah, I hear you. It sounds heavy. And then you keep doing whatever you're doing. Or I could be like, oh, I hear you. That sounds really heavy. It makes sense. So same words, but a totally different experience to the other person. So receive with reflection if you're the listener, not fixing. And then close that container with connection and say, thank you for holding that. I really appreciate that. Do you need anything in return right now? Do you need a moment now too after I just shared all that? So it's this big package that you just gave to the other person. You didn't lob it at them. You checked in with them. You gently handed it to them. And then you said, hey, how are you doing with it? And do you need anything now? Could I help you?
Alona Pulde:I love that because it puts it also into context. And I think sometimes in this example of venting, I think about why do I get tight when people vent and a lot of times it's not when they've shared what I notice is if they share with me hey I'm about to vent I really need to vent I'm prepped for what's coming at me but when a vent comes at me and I have no idea what this is this just venting is this you know my brain starts thinking are they really feeling that way you know what's the matter do I have to you know Put the kids somewhere else for a minute. This is sounding pretty serious. So my brain is doing all of that in moments, and the natural reflex response is defensiveness, a defensive posture against an attack, because that's what the venting feels like. Even if it's not coming at me personally, there's this attack energy. Yeah,
Matthew Lederman:there's an intensity. It's hard to differentiate. Yes. There's an intensity, mobilized system energy, And using words that could really hurt if the other person heard them or the person you're talking about heard them. So there's a lot of aggression in there.
Alona Pulde:Yes. And the natural defense is to protect. Protect. You
Matthew Lederman:protect yourself
Alona Pulde:and the kid. Whoever you're venting about. And so I think there's a beauty in, it's not even so much asking permission, but it's giving us, you know, like you don't need permission per se, but you're asking for a space that will hold that container.
Matthew Lederman:That's the permission. And it's not even permission like you have to give me permission to speak. Right. But I'm basically saying, hey, are you going to be able to hold me in a way that's going to feel meaningful and supportive to me. Yes. And I'd rather you say, no, I can't right now than me say something. And I remember that night when it happened, where I was venting about Kylie and you had this look on your face that was like, like, whoa, like just like, hello. And you were trying not to protect Kylie. You didn't agree with any of my judgments about her. And at the same time, you were trying to be present for me, but it was so hard. So then I'm like, what did I do? Am I the bad guy now? And see, she doesn't care about me. She's not really giving me empathy. So it's violent. If I just said to you, here's what I'm about to do. Do you have capacity for it?
Alona Pulde:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:And here's what I'd like back. And
Alona Pulde:here's the context. I'm venting.
Matthew Lederman:Exactly.
Alona Pulde:You know, what I say right now is said in reactivity. It doesn't matter. The words are coming on a page. Right.
Matthew Lederman:Get to my heart. And I think if people take one thing from this episode. Yes. It's don't just listen to the words long enough to get to the heart.
Alona Pulde:Yes. But you know what? As you were talking, I thought to myself, huh, this is a really great tool, not just for external situations, but also to internal, your internal voice, your inner critic, whether it's of you or of your partner, um, you know, to begin with pausing and taking a notice, taking that breath, realize, okay, I'm about to vent or complain or judge or attach to a past experience, something that just happened. Um, asking yourself permission with care putting context i'm about to vent and this is going to be nasty yeah um set a gentle expectation you might use judgment you might have aggressive words or tone but you're trying to get to your heart and so to allow that space um To give yourself that space to do that. And I think that even taking that tool to kind of go through our thoughts ends you in this place where you can set an intention to show up for your partner differently than you would have shown up with all of that not even processed or received with empathy and care.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. So that... To me is, is the key is, can you do those, those steps makes a huge difference. And I think back to that night and if I followed my own advice here would have gone much better.
Alona Pulde:Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:So my apologies for that.
Producer:No skills to pro skills.
Unknown:Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:No skills to pro skills. I think that's going to be helpful because it's going to take some of this and we can use the same example and show them what I did, which would be the no skills, or we can show them the pro skills. How do you want to, what do you want to do for the no skills to pro skills?
Alona Pulde:I mean, you can summarize your, your, Example of no skills. You know what would
Matthew Lederman:be interesting to me is for you to tell me what it felt like without skills and then what would have felt really nice. So I come downstairs. I just had a really hard time with Kylie and bedtime.
Alona Pulde:Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:And I think that, you know, usually I start thinking about enlisting her in the army. That's sort of how I know. Are we able to, yeah, grandma's house. I'm always like, how do we, boarding school, sleepaway camp. The whole shebang.
Alona Pulde:Yes. And I think I was in the middle of something on my computer, and you came down, and your face was tight, your body was tight, and the words just started shooting out about what a horrific human being Kylie is. Can we even call her a human being? At least that was what I heard through my mama bear ears. Yeah, I remember. And... Yeah, I mean, for me, I think it was, again, it was that shock. Like, I felt like an attack is coming, get protective. And now the attack is not only against me, right? Because I trust my own resilience to handle that battle. But now there's an attack on my kid. Like, I need to absolutely protect, protect, protect, protect. And so, yeah, it was probably all I could do to hold space and Without defending her at that moment because that instinct was so great. Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:And what's activating for me also is when I think that you're protecting Kylie from big bad dad. Mm-hmm. So then it can escalate.
Alona Pulde:Right. Because what happens in that moment is I don't see dad.
Matthew Lederman:You see... I
Alona Pulde:see somebody attacking Kylie. That's what... deep down in my core. And I think that's reflexive. I think that's a reflex. I don't think I'm conscious at that moment. That's the brain scanning for danger. That's our mobilization. You're in fight-flight. You're not in that executive functioning where I'm like, oh, this is Matt venting about Kylie. We're all safe. It's okay. I'm like, danger, danger, danger. Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:And what we got to eventually... which I think was the pro skills, was for you to realize that I just needed peace of mind that she was going to be okay in this world. Yeah. That I was like, how is she going to successfully get through a day anywhere? But, you know, at college, like if she's, I'm like, I think I started by saying, all right, well, Kylie can't go away to college. Yes. Because there's no way she's going to be able to function successfully and do that. So... You know, that to me was for you to get to the fear and the frustration and the worry about her ability to be a successful member of her community.
Alona Pulde:That's the irony, is that there was no need for Mama Bear because underlying all of that was tremendous care, worry, love, and fear for Kyla. And a wish for her to be super, you know, as successful as she wishes to be. So that is the irony of it all.
Matthew Lederman:That's what I think is so beautiful about nonviolent communication is the ability to realize that when people are angry, they often are talking, they're in need of empathy more than ever and talking in a way that's the least likely to get them the empathy they're needing. So if we can reframe when we see people that are angry, as they are in need of empathy the most, all of a sudden, through a couple of reflections of feelings and needs, it just completely disarms. Yes.
Alona Pulde:I think that's where the tool comes in. If in that moment, even if you're venting, you haven't asked for permission or you haven't connected, if I'm able to pause and notice and name it and say, okay, I'm physically safe. Kyle is physically safe. Let's take a minute. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or even
Matthew Lederman:you could do that. Say, hey, Matt, can we pause and do a 30-second container before you continue venting? Which would then help me realize
Alona Pulde:how I like that a lot. Yeah.
Matthew Lederman:Which is part of the bringing. In fact, it brings us right to the bring it home.
Alona Pulde:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:Which is the explain
Alona Pulde:it. Well, before we bring it home, let's do that again with skill. So you come down. There's so many options. I love it. You come down so worried about Kylie and all it's coming out, you know, is through venting. And you can take a moment to use the 30-minute container. Sorry, 30-second container. 30-minute. Yeah, that would be a long one. But you can take that 30-second container to pause and notice and then step back and start the steps. I can take a moment to notice and stop and go through the steps too. So it's very empowering and a beautiful kind of tool that you can use in a lot of different...
Matthew Lederman:And when you say 30-second container, it's not, hey, don't vent. It's, hey, let's just wrap this package with some bubble wrap here. Yes.
Alona Pulde:Let's just name it even.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. But there's a package coming.
Alona Pulde:Yes. There's a
Matthew Lederman:package on its
Alona Pulde:way.
Matthew Lederman:And then we can put a little bubble wrap around it if we have the capacity.
Alona Pulde:Yes.
Matthew Lederman:Bringing it home. So bringing it home, how to bring this home, explaining it, inviting it, modeling it, and then fire drilling it. I like those. But explain it to your partner if they're not listening yet. to this episode, help them understand that you want to show up a little differently. You want to start showing up with more care. And we used it with venting. But anytime you can take 30 seconds to sort of shift your intention, make it clear you want to care, and then have your next actions be aligned with that desire for care. But explain that that's something that's really important to you and you want to show up differently. So it's not about explaining it to your partner to help them to fix them. It's explaining it to them about how you want to show up differently. And then inviting it and just saying, hey, do you want to check in? For example, if everybody wants to focus on venting right now, do you want to check in before we vent? Can we just name it, like you said, the package? Maybe we could wrap it with a little care. What can we do that can help us stay more connected? And then modeling it, hey, I need to talk about something. Can we show them Show your partner, show your kids. It works really well with your kids too because sometimes your kids do things that you don't like. Once in a while that happens, I'm sure. And you can, just before you give them any feedback or educate them or discipline them, take a 30-second container, wrap it up. Let them know there's a package coming and you want to wrap it with as much care as possible. So helping them... Or
Alona Pulde:when they're on the venting side, just remind them that it can be, let's put this in that... Exactly,
Matthew Lederman:exactly. And I love the fire drill because you can start venting in a way that's disconnecting and then ask for a redo. You can practice it. I love fire drills when I tell one of the kids that I'm going to do something to the other kid and I'm going to do a disconnecting and then we're going to reconnect around it in a different way. They love that because they get to see both sides of it. But fire drilling is fantastic. And then I'll get both kids involved and I'll do it to you. And I'll come in disconnecting and then we'll say, oh, I forgot my 30-second container. Sometimes all the kids help me. I'll say, hey, can you help me with the 30-second container? Help me with mom so I can say this with a little more kindness. So they get to see it between us, between them, between each other. The more you can do it, the better. The more you infuse it into the family culture.
Alona Pulde:Absolutely. I think the more that you can practice, the more it becomes just a habitual thing that you do. And I think you also named a really important other piece, which is it can be redone. It can be repaired. Ooh, yeah. The redo. And you can go back and redo. And actually, if you remember to do that, that's really important because it embeds that practice every time that you do that.
Matthew Lederman:Yeah. Now the redo is key. Just one last thing. This is, I like this a lot. Love doesn't live in the milestones. It lives in the micro moments. When you pause to care, even for 30 seconds, you're choosing love over logistics.
Alona Pulde:And I love remembering there's a space for logistics, but there's also a space for love. And don't compromise love in an effort to be transactional, to be efficient, to be productive. Wonderful. You can have the both and.
Matthew Lederman:Both and. That's one of your favorites.
Alona Pulde:Yes, it is. So
Matthew Lederman:everybody, thank you for listening. Please email us at webetogether.com, which is the email is parents at webetogether.com. And we would love any feedback, any experiences you've had trying this stuff. Next week, we're going to talk about some of the stories in the news around this and getting letters from our listeners is one of my favorites to hear what's working, what's not working. Thank you. Bye.