webe Parents

Ep. 44: When “Guidance” Becomes Control: Are You Building Trust...or Quiet Resentment?

• Matt Lederman & Alona Pulde • Season 1 • Episode 44

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You love your kid and want the best—yet your “help” keeps landing as control. In this episode, Matt & Alona flip the script with Values in the Mirror, a tool that swaps power plays for collaboration so your child learns to steer with their own compass. Expect honest letters from real parents, zero judgment, and practical language you can use tonight. 🧭🤝

Challenging highlights you’ll want to hear:

  1. 🍩 The 6 a.m. donut before a race—how one parent turned “Put that down” into a values check that ended with a banana now, donut later.
  2. 🎮 The gaming fog—why banning screens backfires, and how a teen co‑created a boundary (weekly long-play + 9 p.m. text stop) that actually stuck.
  3. 🥣 Natural consequences at dinner—holding the line without shaming, and prepping in advance for the “I’m hungry at 9 p.m.” moment so connection survives the night.
  4. Letters that push buttons (in the best way): What if they “use our language against us”? What if they never learn without us steering? How to name protective use of force for safety—then return to collaboration.
  5. Big takeaways you’ll repeat: Presence over power. Softness isn’t weakness. Resentment from “help” can leak into the whole relationship. When kids test limits, they’re not scheming—they’re building identity. 🧠💚

Have a Kinectin Account? Explore these Nudges to see how they apply to your own life — in a way only Amari can.

Nudge: When I try to guide my kids all they hear is control. How do I turn that around?

Nudge: "You said you trusted me!" How do I build agreements for my child to understand protective limits? 

What is Amari? webe Parents has partnered with Kinectin to bring you Amari, your personal AI coach. Now you can interact with the ideas from our podcasts, articles, and parenting tips — and Amari will help you apply them directly to your pesonal Life. Don't have a Kinectin Account? Create one here

To learn more about what Alona & Matt are up to check us out at webeparents.com, or follow us on our socials at Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, or YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to webe Pärents wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Alona Pulde:

Hey there! We'd love for you to hit that subscribe button. By subscribing, you're helping us spread the word and connect with more amazing people like you.

Producer:

Welcome to We Be Parents, where parent doctors Matthew Letterman and Alona Polday explore current parenting topics, share stories, and help bring families closer together.

Alona Pulde:

Welcome back to We Be Parents. Last week, we explored the deep tension between guidance and control, especially with strong-willed kids around food and device use. We introduced a tool called Values in the Mirror, a way to guide without dominating, by reflecting back what our kids care about most.

Matthew Lederman:

And it was great. We heard back from people. Many of us have children who can sort of out-logic or out-stubborn us, probably before breakfast. And underneath the sugar debates and the sleepover desires and, oh my gosh, don't even get me started. The device obsessions. In the end, we're talking about connection, identity, and who's steering the ship. And ideally, we're steering the ship together.

Producer:

So

Matthew Lederman:

let's do a review of the topic and tool. I think that's helpful just to get people, but you want to talk just to, you're much more brief than I am.

Alona Pulde:

Yeah. So the overall gist of the topic was that guidance, although it's always well-meaning, if it lands as control and kids don't feel seen or their needs don't They don't feel like their needs matter. It results in disconnection. It results in it can be resentful submission or outright rebellion. And it ultimately disconnects and is quite costly.

Matthew Lederman:

It's like the you like to say kids don't care what you know until they know what you care. So you can have all the logic, all the good reasons. Absolutely. But until you care about their needs, and parents will say, of course I care about their needs. It doesn't matter. It's until you can voice and name all of the good reasons they want to do what you don't want them to do, or they don't want to do what you do want them to do. If you can truly see those and make sense of those, They don't feel the care.

Alona Pulde:

Yeah. And the idea, the ultimate kind of idea that we got to is that the value of connection, the value of reflecting what is important to them taps them into their own internal barometer, which is really what ultimately provides long-term peace and ease for parents. Because then, you know, they're not only doing the things that bring you that peace and ease when you're around, but also when you're not around.

Matthew Lederman:

Yeah, because everything I talk about with my kids is I say, when you do something in this way where you connect to your values, it gives me peace of mind that you're going to be okay in college. And they laugh and think that's silly. Why am I talking about college? But it's the idea that we're playing the long game. We want to teach them those skills so that they can make choices that address all of the needs, not just one need, and forget about the others.

Alona Pulde:

Absolutely. All right. So let's dive in. What stories do we have to share today?

Matthew Lederman:

I like the donut decision at 6 a.m. So a parent of a young cross-country runner shared this story. Her 12-year-old wanted to grab a donut at 6 a.m. before a meet. Her instinct was to shut it down. You know, basically, that'll wreck your race. But instead, she paused and said something. She said, do you want to eat in a way that supports how you want to feel today, or do you just want what tastes good right now? And what was so cool about that, the child actually stopped, thought, chose a banana and brought the donut for after the race.

Alona Pulde:

I love that.

Matthew Lederman:

But what was cool about that was the invitation. It wasn't put that donut down, even though the child might have potentially heard that. But the parent made an effort to say, do you want to eat in a way that supports how you want to feel today? Or do you just want what tastes good right now? So now the child stopped and wasn't just impulsively reacting to what the pleasure receptors were telling her to do. But instead, she was saying, well, okay, what is the impact of this choice and what are all of my needs, including how I perform?

Alona Pulde:

I love that. And I love that she did the both and. She took a banana before the race, but she didn't deprive herself of the donut. She just kept it for after the race. So... The question became not, should you eat this or should you not? It was, who do you want to be in this moment? And that's where that value-based parenting lives.

Matthew Lederman:

Yeah, I love it. Mara, do the second story, the gaming marathon and a gentle reset.

Alona Pulde:

Okay. So a dad noticed that his son, normally sharp and motivated, was getting more irritable and scattered after a long night's gaming. Instead of banning screens, which is a natural... instinct, he sat down and he said, you've told me you don't like feeling foggy at school. I've noticed more of that lately. Want to figure out if the pattern is helping or hurting what you care about? And again, they got to collaborate together. They made a shared agreement one night a week for a longer game play and a 9 p.m. text stop the rest of the week. And a week later, the son actually noticed that he was feeling better.

Matthew Lederman:

So that to me, I love the visual of the child's on the other side of the table and you walk around and get onto the same side as the child. And now you're on the same team. And it's all by that invitation. So you've connected the child to not wanting to feel foggy. That's the child's wishes. It's not the parent's wishes. The child connects to that. And then you can say, I've noticed more of that lately, which is just your observation. And then you ask, do you want to figure out if this pattern is helping or hurting what you care about? So you're asking them, do they want to? And then it's not about what you do. It's about, hey, what's this general pattern? What's the impact of these actions? And I think in general, if we can help children and people in general connect to the impact of their actions, That's a huge step forward.

Alona Pulde:

Absolutely. And what I loved about it was it wasn't a power play, but at the same time, it wasn't permissive. It wasn't a power play. They co-created a boundary that worked for both of them.

Matthew Lederman:

I love it. All right, let's jump into letters from our listeners. I like this.

Alona Pulde:

All right. So our first letter today, my daughter keeps making choices that leave her feeling sick or moody. If I step back, I feel like I'm failing to protect her. But when I step in, she explodes. I don't know how to care without becoming the enemy. We talked about this. I absolutely resonate, sympathize and empathize with this letter. I shared our own or my own story in our previous episode about a similar encounter with my own daughter. And as a parent, especially when we're We feel like we're trying so hard to help and we see the potential for failure. We see the aftermath that's just waiting on the other end of the indulgence, whatever it happens to be. We feel such an urgency to step in, to correct, to fix, to catch them before they fall. And then suddenly we become the enemy. And it's very painful. And

Matthew Lederman:

I think Parents sometimes mistake, am I doing this to protect my child from the fall, or am I doing this because I'm uncomfortable with how I feel when they do fall? And I think it's important to differentiate that, because a lot of times we think we're doing things for the kids, but we're really doing it for our own comfort. And at the same time, it brings us comfort. It robs them of the opportunity to connect to their own values and needs and natural consequences and impact of their choices.

Alona Pulde:

Yeah, and I think it can be a both and. It can be our connecting to our own pain and also connecting to their pain and then the next layer of the enmeshment that exists between those two.

Producer:

Yeah.

Matthew Lederman:

Yeah, it's important to be aware of all of those dynamics because I think it's probably a combination. But sometimes we forget that actually one of my bigger resistances is that I don't enjoy. For example, I'll talk to clients and they'll talk about their kids. We'll say, okay, there's an hour for dinner. And after that, I don't want to cook anymore. So if you need food, you're going to have to figure out how to make it yourself. Or we're going to agree that the kitchen's closed, if that was our agreement. And then when the child says, oh, I'm so hungry, but my stomach hurts. I need to get some food. And the dad or mom has to say, yeah, well, I get why you're hungry. You didn't eat dinner because you were joking and playing around. And hopefully tomorrow, if you want to do it differently, that's great. But I want you to connect to that. That it's hard when a child says, I'm hungry and my stomach hurts, to not follow through with what you agreed upon.

Alona Pulde:

Yes. And there, you know, we have the impulse again to fix. We get lost in this moment being forever versus forever. Even if they don't, if they skip that meal or miss that meal, they will be okay. They'll be hungrier in the morning. They might get up a little bit earlier for breakfast. But ultimately, they will be okay. What happens in this very given moment most often isn't going to reflect on the rest of their lives.

Matthew Lederman:

And then the parent gives in and gives the child food that night. Because they feel guilty not. Or during that hour of time for dinner, the parent is prodding the child to keep eating and eating so that they get enough foods that they aren't unsuccessful and then hungry at night. And then the child is annoyed that they're constantly getting prodded to do something. So it's a challenging dynamic. But sometimes it's around how do we navigate our own discomfort.

Alona Pulde:

And how do we guide them without controlling them but instead in doing it in that sense of connection that doesn't feel like a threat and it doesn't feel like punishment. It feels like we're on this team together figuring it out together.

Matthew Lederman:

And that's what I would actually– that's why I remember we talked about with the child– talking through all the scenarios we're worried about happening that are preventing us from being successful. So for example, if I say, okay, I'm not gonna bother you during dinner to eat, but after an hour, I wanna do dishes and clean up. So if you're not done, I'm gonna clear whatever's there and I'm not gonna wanna come down and make more food again. So then I say, when you're hungry in bed and I'm giving you a kiss tonight and you say, I'm so hungry, what can I do, dad? Tell me how to respond in that moment. So we prepare before. When we're making a plan, it's not just about what we're going to do or not do around food. It's help me with all these scenarios that I'm worried about happening. Yes. And then they'll say, Dad, what you do is you give me a hug and remind me that this was our agreement. And you give me my stuffed animal and you tuck me in. Maybe you even rub my belly. And then in the morning, make me two bowls of cereal instead of one. And I'll say... Good. I can do that. So now I have a plan of what to do versus in the moment, you know, in the moment feeling guilty and then coming down, giving them food resentfully and then tomorrow prodding them through that hour of dinnertime.

Alona Pulde:

Yes. And I think trusting them with those limits is. And those boundaries is also a really important opportunity to build their resilience and, again, give us ultimate peace, you know, long-term peace of mind. I know that happened just the other day in the morning. Our girls were getting ready for camp. And time management can be really challenging, especially in the morning. And I I often have anxiety about them getting out the door on time. But this time I asked them, I said, hey, do you guys need help with time management or do you kind of have yourselves figured out and you'll be ready at this time? And they both said, okay, we're going to be ready at this time. You don't have to worry about it. And of course, you know, I noticed as the time was getting closer and closer, I noticed my own anxiety rising, but I really wanted to honor them. that connection and not step in. And it was beautiful. They did it. And they did it again today without me needing to, but they're connecting to their own values. They are exerting their own autonomy, maintaining their own dignity and making their own choices and being accountable and responsible for those choices. And then whatever consequence will come for them when the natural consequence that will come for them being late.

Matthew Lederman:

And it's very connecting when you do it that way. Because before you would get upset because you're trying to help them be successful and they would be annoyed by it. Right. And feel like you were nagging. Right. So they don't even get the joy of your contribution versus now it's, hey, you're asking them, you give them choice. You don't just do it without their permission, which is connecting. And then you say, hey, if you don't want to help, that's great. But they got to connect to your desire to help. And then they also got to check in and be like, could I use help from them? And they thought about it, which also helps them start to shift into, well, mom's not going to just prod me. So I got to now take the reins because mom's letting go of the reins. Right. So I think on so many levels, that's really helpful.

Alona Pulde:

Right. And the opportunity was if they didn't meet their agreement, if they weren't ready on time, the next conversation would be, hey, yesterday I asked you if you guys needed help. You said you didn't, but you also didn't meet the time. What do we do differently today? And again, not me coming up with solutions or telling them what they need to do, but inviting that collaborative approach. Now, I want to just say because this started with the daughter feeling sick or moody, just to put a caveat there, if there are concerns that a child is actually hurting themselves, if there is health or safety concerns, That's a different story. You know, then it becomes, you know, the parent's responsibility to step in with what we call protective use of force.

Matthew Lederman:

Yeah. And I still, even though it's the protective use of force to keep them safe in the moment. I then go back to collaboration once we're safe. And I name what I'm doing. I'll say, I want to collaborate. I want to get on the same team. But right now I need to jump in and do this to make sure my need for safety is met. And once that's met, let's put our heads together and figure out how to navigate this differently in the future.

Alona Pulde:

So if you've been listening to us for a while, you know we get a lot of questions about what to do in tricky parenting or relationship moments.

Matthew Lederman:

Yeah, and if I'm being real, I'm asking Alona those same questions all the time. I get into those same tricky moments as everybody else does. As much as we wish we could be there for each other in those exact moments, we just can't always be.

Alona Pulde:

Yeah, that's why we partnered with the amazing team at Connecton to create something we truly believe in, an AI coach called Amari. And we didn't just lend our names, we helped build it and train it and brought in everything we've learned about emotional healing, connection and communication. Yeah,

Matthew Lederman:

we spent years training and learning and we've created Amari who's so calm and grounded, listens deeply and responds with warmth, clarity and compassion. There's no judgment, no reactivity. In fact, we tasked our children with trying to get Amari reactive and they still haven't succeeded. It's just steady support when you need it most.

Alona Pulde:

We use it ourselves all the time, especially when we feel stuck or overwhelmed. And Amari's really helped us pause, reflect, given us insight that helps us come back to each other.

Matthew Lederman:

We designed Amari to help you strengthen the relationships that matter most, starting with the one you have with yourself.

Alona Pulde:

And we are so excited that you can try it now at WeBeParents.com and click on WeBeConnecting with a K to sign up. And when you have your Amari moment, please let us know as we'd love to hear about it.

Matthew Lederman:

All right, let's do the next one about my son uses our language against us. And they said he's clever. He says things like, you said you trust me to learn when we try to set limits. It feels manipulative, but he's also not wrong. So he said, you said to trust me to learn. And, you know, it's true there. It's like, hey, Do we trust them? Are the words really reflecting what we truly feel? I don't know. What's your reaction to this?

Alona Pulde:

Yeah. I think that's where we as parents need to really reflect and, you know, take that pause and think about what are we saying and do we really mean what we're saying? You know, you and I had a discussion about that the other day. I was getting, you weren't feeling well. I was getting ready to go to dinner at my mom's house and I was gathering the girls and one of them was not ready. And I said, okay, we are leaving at 6.45 And if you're not at the door at 6.45, you are welcome to stay home and whoever's ready is going. But I never follow through with that, ever, because I don't want to really leave them behind. And so when I put that out there, it carries no weight. It means nothing. So I have to be really... we as parents need to be really careful. Do you really trust them to learn? Because if you trust them to learn, then you will allow them to experience the natural consequence and that will be okay. Like you gave that example of, if I say kitchen's closed at 7 p.m. and if you're still hungry, you can go ahead and make yourself something or you can eat the following morning when I'm ready to get into the kitchen again. But I have to hold that boundary, not when they come at 9 p.m., I'm starving, I can't sleep, I'm so hungry, then I go and make them something. So we have to decide where our comfort lies and why we're jumping in when we have said something different.

Matthew Lederman:

Exactly. That's the key is do you, you know, when you say something, think about it, imagine it happening and see if you would really follow through. Because for example, some people won't let their kid come down and make themselves something. So the kid's like, yeah, I'll make myself something. And then you're like, oh my God, well, actually, what do they, you know, they start pulling out knives and, you know, crystal dishware. And you're like, oh my God, this is terrible idea. So you have to then use that, not that it failed, but that you weren't clear enough. So then you can say, okay, I'm willing for you to come down, but here are the foods you can pick from. There's a banana. There's an apple. And there is, you know, this cut up fruit in the fridge or whatever it is. But they can pick from those three things if they're hungry and brush their teeth and get back into bed. But that all has to happen before the bedtime, let's say. So you start getting clearer about what the strategy is versus just leaving it up, you know, up in the air or vague. For example, saying you said you trust me to learn, saying I trust you to learn, it's not very clear what that means. It could mean a whole range of things. So that just means when the kid brings it up, not that you're wrong. It's just that, oh, I wasn't clear enough. Thank you for bringing that up. Let's get more clear what I mean and what I do trust and what I don't trust.

Alona Pulde:

And I may trust you to learn, but if I see that that learning isn't happening or I'm concerned about the direction in which that learning is taking, then I'm going to step in. So you've set a more realistic expectation for yourself and your child, right?

Matthew Lederman:

Great. I like it. So letter three here. Oh, did you want to say

Alona Pulde:

something? Oh, no, I just, I wanted also to express empathy for these parents, you know, that you have these strong-willed, really intelligent children who are going to test those boundaries and they really will see where they can poke holes and in what we say and how we do things. And so it's a challenge as well.

Matthew Lederman:

Yeah, and I want to... add to that poking holes sometimes can be interpreted as they're trying to manipulate or take advantage and I think what you're saying is they just want to get a lay of the land they want to see where all the walls are where the soft surfaces are make sense of everything get grounded in what is what the reality is I

Alona Pulde:

think they're also and I think they're also really trying to see if they can actually they're creating their own identities they're creating they're setting their own limits they're defining Right. And that to me is a need, like you're

Matthew Lederman:

saying, for independence and their identity and separating from the parent to establish their identity. Mm-hmm. Which to me is different than trying to poke holes. Not that that's not what you meant, but it can be implied that a kid's just devious versus no, they're trying to, like you said, understand their identity, make sense of the world around them.

Alona Pulde:

Yes. Yes, and in that, they are going to test limits and boundaries. That's how they learn what is acceptable as that differentiation, what is not so acceptable, where the consequences lie. But yes, I agree with you. It may feel manipulative, but I don't think that's their intent to be devious and manipulative.

Matthew Lederman:

Yeah. Kids are always trying to meet needs, and it's our job to try and figure out what those needs are, even if we don't like the way they're trying to meet them.

Alona Pulde:

Yes.

Matthew Lederman:

So here's a letter. What if they never learn? I'm scared that if I stop steering so much, my kid won't just flounder. He'll drift away from everything we value. So there's a lot of fear there.

Alona Pulde:

Oh, yeah. And that fear is real. And it feels so urgent and acute. Almost like an emergency. It must be taken care of right now.

Matthew Lederman:

And thinking of that fear almost as grief masked as control. Like, I'm so worried that his values or her values are going to be so different from mine that it just feels unbearable. And it's okay to mourn that because... Your child might have ways that they want to go through the world that are very different. There's lots of adult, there's parents of adult children that don't see the world the same way, whether it's politics or how they raise children or other challenging issues. So how do we grieve and mourn that fear? Because we can try to control them, but if we're playing the long game, That's going to erode trust, create disconnection, build resentment. They will submit. You talk about this a lot. They will submit while their power is low, but as they get bigger, stronger, more powerful, they will then rebel. So you are kicking the can down the road as well as intensifying the disconnection and the power of which they're going to pull away. Because every child wants to be able to express their authentic self. And as parents, I think that's the best, one of the most important things we can do is make a safe space for them to express themselves authentically. We want to do it with safety and care for the impact of their actions. And that's what I care about. Even if they have different values, can we get them to connect to the impact of the choices and the strategies they choose to meet their needs?

Alona Pulde:

Yeah.

Producer:

Yeah.

Alona Pulde:

Yeah. And it's hard, right? I mean, but if you think of the greater world, there are so many people who resonate different values and different beliefs and have different strategies to meet different needs. And there's still a space where So I think there's also an opportunity to reflect as a parent, do I want to mold them into a mini me? Or do I want to guide and encourage them to grow this independent, thriving spirit where they are thinking for themselves and anchoring in their own values? And yes, we hope that, you know, for the most part, they're alive. But can we also coexist where maybe sometimes they're not completely aligned? And you gave the great example of politics, which happens often.

Matthew Lederman:

And often if we get to the needs level, I think we share values. We might not share strategies for meeting those values. That's

Alona Pulde:

a great point.

Matthew Lederman:

So if we can connect to the values and needs they're trying to meet, we share them. You know, some people think, look at gun control. Everybody is trying to meet needs for safety and security and maybe choice and autonomy. But if you're trying to meet needs for safety and security, some people do that with a burglary alarm system. Some people do that with having a gun in the house. And other people do that by living in a gated community with lots of people. So we're all trying to meet needs for safety and security, but there's very different strategies around meeting them. And that's often where our Disconnection happens is because we think our strategy is the right and we don't have openness to other strategies to meet the same needs.

Alona Pulde:

I think that's a really valuable distinction is that often our grieving and our mourning are occurring around chosen strategies, not underlying needs, which is, yeah, that's cathartic when you start seeing people situations in that light all right so let's get our final letter today um we used values in the mirror and had a great moment but and values in the mirror was the tool that we shared in the previous episode but two days later total meltdown over soda are we doing something wrong nope You're doing something really real. You're practicing and you're inviting and bringing in a new tool into the family. And my guess is it's not wrong, but maybe there are opportunities for optimization. A lot of times when we introduce a new tool, it can be... you know, quite messy before it feels more habitual and natural and actually helpful for the family. And part of that is if tools haven't been introduced in the family before, there's a level of trust that needs to be built. Situations can be really different. And depending on how resourced you are, how resourced your child is at the moment, a meltdown can happen because their nervous system is completely dysregulated in a way that they no longer have access to this tool. And in those situations, often the most valuable thing is to pause, step back, connect back to that calm, help your child ground themselves and resource themselves in a way that allows them to be available and open to trying the tool.

Matthew Lederman:

Yeah, because it's a practice. This tool, it's about building a pattern of safe, consistent, value-based reflection where we're on the same team. And the child is so used to, and parents also, if you're brought up in sort of this conventional way that most people are, it's that the parents are on one side, the child's on the other, and our job is to get the child to do what we think they should do. So it takes time to build that collaborative approach process. So if the child is having a meltdown, they're just defaulting back to some old pathways that don't go away. But we need to just, again, sort of spend more time in these new pathways. It's not a fix. It's a practice. It's a doorway that you leave open, but sometimes we don't walk through it. This episode of We Be Parents is brought to you by We Be Calm. the child calmer designed by doctors and loved by parents.

Alona Pulde:

Struggling with bedtime routines or managing your child's anxiety? WeBeCalm transforms deep breathing into a fun and engaging activity, helping kids find their inner calm. Perfect for bedtime stressful moments or any time your child needs a little extra help to stay calm. Visit WeBeCalm.com to learn more and bring tranquility to your family. WeBeCalm, because we be in this together. It's not going to be the same pattern every time. It's going to require a dynamic presence around where's the shift? How resourced are we? How available are we to use the tool? It's not going to be one same path every single time.

Matthew Lederman:

Yeah. I

Alona Pulde:

like it. But that comes with practice.

Matthew Lederman:

Exactly. Exactly. And when a child is having a meltdown, the first thing, again, is to check in with your own body and take a breath and soften. And then the second is to be curious. Boy, I wonder what's going on in them that their whole body is just sort of melting down right now and connecting, again, trying to connect to the needs. Often with a meltdown, there's some dysregulation. There's probably some need for self-care and rest, and there's potentially hunger and other sort of self-care needs. There's probably some frustration mixed into there, some overwhelm, some overload. So there's all sorts of stuff going on in this ball of meltdown that we can be curious around, but at the same time, holding our own needs and comfort. And it doesn't mean you just get rid of your needs. Or that you're doing something wrong, per se.

Alona Pulde:

Yeah. Love it.

Matthew Lederman:

All right. Let's do the tension trade-offs game. I love this. Where I'm going to ask you two different questions. We'll start with the first one. Okay. And it's meant to get you to think about– it's not an easy answer one way or the other.

Alona Pulde:

I hate– These either or.

Matthew Lederman:

Either or. So would you rather let your child crash and burn, hoping they'll learn, or step in firmly and risk damaging the trust?

Alona Pulde:

When?

Matthew Lederman:

Assuming it's not like an emergency, a safety emergency.

Alona Pulde:

Okay.

Producer:

Okay.

Alona Pulde:

I would not rather let them crash and burn, but I think I'm trying to get comfortable with hoping that they learn.

Matthew Lederman:

So you're more likely to step in, but you're trying to shift towards the letting them learn. I

Alona Pulde:

don't like stepping in either because I'm uncomfortable with the disconnection that it results in.

Matthew Lederman:

So you know stepping in is going to lead to disconnection. Yes.

Alona Pulde:

I'm well aware of that. And most of the time that discomfort is greater. But even when I let them crash, like I hope they learn, it's not in this collaborative kind spirit. It's absolute anxiety, you know, dressed as collaboration.

Matthew Lederman:

Yeah. Because I think to me when we're faced with these choices that sometimes we think we have to choose between, we can share vulnerably. We can say, hey, my instinct here is to jump right in, but I know that's not going to contribute. At the same time, letting you just navigate this by yourself is scary for me. I'd like to show up differently. Is there a way we can sort of walk through this or you sort of talk through how you're going to navigate it without me jumping in. And then, you know, there's ways to sort of massage this.

Alona Pulde:

You are noticing that you are cheating in

Matthew Lederman:

this. Well, I am cheating, but I'm saying that if I would pick, it would definitely be the crash and burn, you know, if it's not health or safety. But I'm just saying for you, I think that's how you would naturally sort of thread that needle.

Alona Pulde:

Yes, I think that's a great both-hand. This is what I'm instinctually wanting to do, and this is what I'm really trying to do. And what would help get there is if there is a collaboration from them as well.

Producer:

Yeah.

Alona Pulde:

Yeah, I do like that. All right, I have one for you.

Producer:

Okay.

Alona Pulde:

So would you rather your child feel fully autonomous but disconnected from your values or deeply connected but slightly resentful of your involvement?

Matthew Lederman:

I can honestly say that I would want them to be fully autonomous but disconnected from my values. And my hope is that they're connecting to their values. So it depends. I don't know if I'm cheating again. Am I cheating again?

Alona Pulde:

No, I think, yeah.

Matthew Lederman:

Because I definitely don't want them, anytime they're resentful of my involvement, I shy away. Again, if it's health or safety, but even when it's health or safety, I'm going to do what I do, but I'm still going to repair the resentment of my involvement. And I'm also going to work with them and build trust that this is not how I want to do it. And in the future, let's put our heads together to prevent me from thinking this is the only option.

Alona Pulde:

Yes. Yes. And you know, I... I don't think– I'm sure we touched upon it, but one of the things that I was just reflecting on is that that resentment of your involvement doesn't just become about this one issue. It then becomes part of the way you relate to one another so that that resentment seeps into other areas of their life, creating that real disconnection between– parent and child that is so deep. And you see that a lot with parents who are almost estranged from their children. And I think that starts, again, with resentment about involvement, lack of trust, and the cost of that as it escalates and becomes bigger and bigger. Yeah.

Matthew Lederman:

Good points. Good points.

Alona Pulde:

All right. So... That was fun. That was fun and painful. But what is one last thing we're leaving our listeners with today?

Matthew Lederman:

I think it's important to know that softness isn't weakness. It's building a fluency. It's like a nervous system fluency. It's choosing presence over power. To me, that is so important. Presence over power, connection over power. Again and again, even when it's messy. Connection is my North Star.

Alona Pulde:

I love that. And I love the point about it being messy because it will get messy. That's life. Things get messy. And the resilience that we have and that we're building in our children is that we can get through the mess together.

Matthew Lederman:

Yes, exactly. If they believe that, that we are on the same team, even when it's messy, but we're going to figure this out together, you're doing something right.

Alona Pulde:

Yes, that's gold. Yes.

Matthew Lederman:

All right. Well, thank you, everybody, for listening. Please rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast. It really helps other families find us and grow. Share your moments or questions with us at parents at webetogether.com. And then definitely join us next week for another Emotionally Rich topic.

Alona Pulde:

Yeah, we'd love to hear from you. Thanks for listening.

Producer:

Bye. Bye.