webe Together
Welcome to "webe Together" with Dr. Alona Pulde and Dr. Matthew Lederman! We're parents first, doctors second, and life coaches third, blending nutrition, lifestyle, and connection medicine with nonviolent communication to help families thrive. In each episode, we'll share our "Cheers & Tears," dive into our "Topic & Tool," go from "No Skills to Pro Skills," "Bring It Home," and wrap up with "One Last Thing." Join us as we share stories, skills, and tips to help bring your family closer together using our professional expertise.
Thanks for listening!
Dr. Matthew Lederman & Dr. Alona Pulde
webe Together
Ep. 53: Your child isn’t “too sensitive”—you’re under-connecting. Try “The Gift.”
You’ll learn how to receive tough feedback from your kids (and partners) without spiraling into shame or defensiveness, and how to turn “you embarrassed me” into a deeper bond—not a bigger rift. We unpack “The Gift,” a simple framework to let their feelings land, repair fast, and create third-way solutions where everyone’s needs matter. You’ll also hear why empathy isn’t coddling—it’s a multi-generational superpower that shapes who our kids become. 🌱
Moments that may sting (and change you):
- “Don’t hug me at pickup.” How to translate the pain, validate belonging needs, and co-create private signals for affection (thumbs-up, car-hug, home-hug) so love and dignity both win.
- “You interrupt me.” Spot the weaponized-gift trap, then pivot to needs-language that disarms criticism and invites teamwork instead of score-keeping.
- When a child shuts down. Why silence protects dignity and regulation—and how to guess needs, give space, and build trust (even with nonverbal check-ins like 👁️ blink cues).
Have a Kinectin Account? Explore these Nudges to see how they apply to your own life — in a way only Amari can.
What is Amari? webe Parents has partnered with Kinectin to bring you Amari, your personal AI coach. Now you can interact with the ideas from our podcasts, articles, and parenting tips — and Amari will help you apply them directly to your pesonal Life. Don't have a Kinectin Account? Create one here
To learn more about what Alona & Matt are up to check us out at webeparents.com, or follow us on our socials at Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, or YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to webe Pärents wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
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Producer:Welcome to We Bee Parents, where parent doctors Matthew Letterman and Alona Polday explore current parenting topics, share stories, and help bring families closer together.
Alona:Hello and welcome to We Be Together, which is the new name for our Weeb Parents broadcast because it's about helping families grow together across generations. Whether you're raising little ones, dealing with the marital conflicts, or working through old wounds with your own parents, we're here to explore how connection becomes the thread that holds it all. Hi, I'm Dr. Alona Polday.
Matt:And hi, I'm Dr. Matthew Letterman.
Alona:And last week we introduced a concept called the gift, which is an opportunity for our kids to give us feedback about something that didn't land well for them, something they didn't like, and also expressed why it was important. And I think the take home for me was it's important because our kids don't like some of the things that we do. It's natural. We didn't like a lot of things our parents did either. But just because they don't say it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And when they don't say it, a lot of times it creates the disconnection that then we hear about in teenage kids who suddenly disappear. They don't talk to me anymore. They don't want to connect, they don't want to do things together. Um, and so the gift is really an opportunity to offer a deep connection with your kids that goes a long way as they get older into your and in in that relationship.
Matt:Yes, yes, I think it's super important. It's one of the most used tools in in whether it's actually the gift or a variation of the gift. So I highly recommend people listening to that episode last week. Um you want to give a little recap of what it was just for you meant to share with them? Yeah. So the gift is about setting up an environment where you can hear somebody's unmet needs as if it was a gift. They're telling you because the relationship matters, they're telling you because they care and they want to teach you how to support and love them even better. And that to me is a gift.
Alona:Right. And said maybe another way is you did something your kids didn't like, you provide a space where they can offer feedback on how that how that impacted them and and what that you know what what it felt like for them. Right.
Matt:And the goal is to make a space for their heart to heal or repair or to be heard. It has nothing to do about agreement or strategizing or somebody was right and somebody was wrong, none of that.
Alona:Right. Making space for a gift doesn't mean you're condoning what happened, not your kids' behavior, not your behavior, but you are giving a space for them to share with you something that yeah, you're caring about their pain. Yeah.
Matt:You're making a space to care. Exactly. And you care about their pain regardless of whether you judge what they did as right or wrong.
Alona:Exactly.
Matt:Although that's interesting because I think there's sometimes, at least I'd heard it before, where parents might say, Yeah, it's it's good because what you did was wrong. Like you know, like this idea that they should be hurting because they did something wrong. Like you have to hurt to learn. And I think that that we can do it differently. And our experience is that actually not only is it equally effective, I think it's more effective because they connect, they have their pain heard, which then allows them space to hear your pain and then allows a place to feel collaborative where you care for each other to do things differently.
Alona:Yeah. And I think the irony of that is all up the ante, is I think they hurt more in a space of connection than they hurt in a space of disconnection because they get angry and pissed at you, and then they don't they will justify their own behavior, they don't hurt. That hurt is is suppressed, and and what comes out of it is that protective anger.
Matt:Yeah, because in order to connect, when when somebody thinks that somebody else did something wrong, basically they're saying we have needs that weren't met by your actions. For the other person to care about those unmet needs, they can't be in anger, they can't be in shame. And that's what this does. This creates a space where they don't have to have anger or shame, and then you connect to the pain that their actions stimulated.
Alona:Right.
Matt:So I think what we should do now, unless there's any more questions, you think we're clear enough on the I think we're clear enough on the gift. Well, then what I'd love to do is I'd love to share. We do headlines, heartlines, and there was a cool study that looked at the impact of empathic connection, which to me, the gift, is basically creating a space for empathic connection to care for everybody. And this study that was done in University of Virginia in 2024.
Alona:I love this, yes.
Matt:Found it followed 184 adolescents from age 13 into their mid-30s to understand how empathy travels across generations. And if you create this connected space, empathy is basically hearing the feelings and needs of another person and caring about them, creating a space. And what they found was when you created empathic space, when mothers showed empathy and empathic support to their 13-year-olds, those teams became more empathic towards their close friends across adolescents. So empathy affected how you treated your children, affected how your children treated their friends. Then it continued to follow them. And as those adolescents turned into adults, those same teams, now parents, were more likely to respond supportively to their own children's emotional distress. So they were more likely to respond with empathy and support towards their children. And then it continued to follow, and it looked at their children now ages three to eight. And those children showed higher empathy towards others as reported by the parents.
Alona:Three generations, and basically the first generation is paying it forward by providing an empathic space for their children. Not only do they build a stronger connection, but they teach their children how to build stronger connections with friends and their own children. And then even those children better connect to the world through an empathic presence because of that initial empathy. The gift that keeps giving.
Matt:This is the ripple when people say, I want to change the world, by you showing up with empathy, not only does it make your body feel better, yes, but it treats it teaches your child, who then teaches their friends or impacts their friends, which then impacts their children, and those friends then impact their children. We could, in a few generations, we could create a whole new world.
Alona:Yes. And empathy, just to hit home, empathy is not pity, it's not sympathy, it's not agreement, it's providing a space for somebody else to matter, for you to step completely into somebody else's shoes and just be there with them in their experience.
Matt:It's not it, I mean, that's what's I'm so excited about the gift because it gives you a framework to do this and show up with empathy.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:We should do another episode on the hard hug.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:I think that's important too. We'll do that another time.
Alona:But and and it's hard sometimes to receive a gift, especially, and I shared that in in the previous episode where we talk about the gift, especially when uh in that case, I wasn't in integrity. I felt so short of my own integrity. And so, you know, I was locked in that shame and sadness and and in that cloud, it's really hard to receive a gift, but ever so much more important to do so. Or when you're really angry because you're triggered by something your child said, and then they come back and give you a gift. Um, and you share that. It's hearing them, it's allowing space for them, it's letting them know they matter, it's sharing the regret, not that you had a reaction, but that the reaction landed impacted them in the way that it did, and the opportunity to redo that reaction and also share what was coming up for you. So it's like a full circle where they're seen and heard, and ultimately you're seen and heard. And the end result is a much more connected experience for both of us, exactly.
Matt:Exactly. So if you're interested in learning more about how that works, definitely listen to last week's episode.
Alona:Yes. So if you've been listening to us for a while, you know we get a lot of questions about what to do in tricky parenting or relationship moments.
Matt:Yeah, and if if I'm being real, I'm asking Alona those same questions all the time. I get into those same tricky moments as everybody else does. And as much as we wish we could be there for each other in those exact moments, we just can't always be.
Alona:Yeah, that's why we partnered with the amazing team at Connectin' to create something we truly believe in. An AI coach called Amari. And we didn't just lend our names, we helped build it and train it and brought in everything we've learned about emotional healing, connection, and communication.
Matt:Yeah, we've spent years training and learning, and we've created Amari who is so calm and grounded, listens deeply and responds with warmth, clarity, and compassion. There's no judgment, no reactivity. In fact, we tasked our children with trying to get Amari reactive, and they still haven't succeeded. It's just steady support when you need it most.
Alona:We use it ourselves all the time, especially when we feel stuck or overwhelmed. And Amari's really helped us pause, reflect, given us insight that helps us come back to each other.
Matt:Yeah, we designed Amari to help you strengthen the relationships that matter most, starting with the one you have with yourself.
Alona:And we are so excited that you can try it now at weebarents.com and click on we be connecting with a K to sign up. And when you have your Amari moment, please let us know as we'd love to hear about it.
Matt:Let's go into some of the letters.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:I always enjoy this. How do we respond?
Alona:Yes.
Matt:So the first letter I'm gonna I'm gonna read for you.
Alona:Okay.
Matt:So my eight-year-old told me I I embarrassed him in front of his friends when I hugged him. I pick up. I know he's drawing up, but it's still stung. I felt like I was being shamed for loving my kid. How do I receive that gift when it hurts so much? And it was interesting when I was dropping Jordan off and I gave her a hug, and another parent said, Oh, your your child allows you to hug them? You know, and it was like, it's funny. Like Jordan, I checked in with her and I said, Jordan, do you want a hug like in the car? Would you like a hug closer to school? Do you want a hug before I let you in? She was very specific. She was like, I like it in the sidewalk before we get in, you know, but it was like the same thing. So I know if we just I can imagine just hugging her or kissing her wherever I want, she might, you know, give me a gift.
Alona:Yes, yes. And that's very tender for parents. You know, I often think of that song Butterfly Kisses, where the daughter comes back and says, Oh, I'm only gonna kiss you on the cheek this time, you know, because and and you see the progression of them age and say, Hey, you know, I'm an I I want to be seen as an adult now. You can't just hug and kiss me in front of my friends that's embarrassing. And you remember your little three-year-old that would jump into your arms for hugs and kisses, no matter who was around. Right. So yeah, it's really tender. And I think that is the opportunity, is if we're in that space, we need empathy for ourselves. And then when we have given ourselves enough empathy, we can show up ready for a gift from the other person because it's holding both. That's that's the gift. It doesn't mean um letting go as this parent, letting go of, oh, how much I would love to hug and kiss you if I could, right? It's stepping into, well, how does that land for my child? And I'm hearing that doing it in front of all of their friends is embarrassing right now. And I love what you when you shared your story with Jordan, that's exactly what it's about. It's hearing the gift gives you an opportunity to pivot. It doesn't mean that you can't hug and kiss your kid, but maybe it's not in front of all of their friends.
Matt:So because that's what's that's what this uh person is basically saying, or seeing it as binary.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:I either love my kids and I embarrass my child, or I don't embarrass my child and they feel acceptance and belonging, but I don't get to love my kid anymore.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:And I think that's there's a third way.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:That's what's missing.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:Yes. And the child doesn't, and the child doesn't know how to express that and saying, hey, I want to love and I want to express love and care for you, and I want to feel a sense of belonging and acceptance with my friends. How can we do both?
Alona:Yes. I think that's the beautiful thing around the gift and and around uh, you know, the the connective approach to parenting is it doesn't have to be this or that. It's this and it's both and versus either or. And for many of us in that right, wrong morality mentality, it's either or, it's either right or it's wrong versus there are a lot of things in between that could feel better for everybody involved.
Matt:Right. There's a lot of needs on the table in this situation, and that's where the gift is helpful because if you immediately focus on your need for love and connection, yes, and the child is focused on their need for autonomy, you know, and choice and belonging and acceptance and comfort, then you both can't hear each other. So as the parent, you put your needs on the side and say, we're gonna get to those in a second.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:First, I'm gonna hear my child's pain, which is that they didn't feel a sense, they feel embarrassed and they don't feel connected in love, or they don't feel a sense of belonging with their friends. Right. So how do we and we can say, Yeah, I get that. That makes a lot of sense. If you had your parent kissing you and you want to be an older kid now that doesn't need their parent kissing them.
Alona:Right. But and in order to do that though, the parent has to be able to step back just a little bit to say, hey, this isn't about rejecting me. It's about defining themselves. Right. You know, they're taking a moment to express their own needs for autonomy, which is a beautiful thing. It's actually what needs to happen as they get older, is that that sense of independence, their their desire for autonomy and to be seen differently.
Matt:So that to me would be really helpful if they if she if she could hear the gift as that's just one of the needs, and that once you hear the child's needs, the child also shares needs for love and connection with you as a parent. But right now, these are what are stimulating the pain. And then afterwards you can bring up your needs, and that's those are the steps.
Alona:Yeah, and what could that sound like? That could sound like, hey, I'm hearing that hugging and kissing you in front of your friends is some embarrassment. Right.
Matt:And that you would prefer to not be hugged, you'd prefer to be able to just walk in with your friends without any hugs or kisses in front of them. Yes. And they'd say yes. And then you'd say, I get that. And that probably really feels like you know helps you feel a sense of belonging with your kids, with your friends. Yeah. Is there more? No, there's no more. Okay, well, thank you so much. I'm so happy that you told me that that doesn't work for you. Versus the other way kids might communicate it is like, oh, mom, stop it. Right. Or they might be like stiff like this. Right. Which still doesn't meet your need for love and connection, and just actually could feel worse. Right. So you could say, Thank you so much for bringing this up. And then once they and you could say, Oh, you know what, I regret that now because I didn't even ask you. I just met my need for love and connection without even checking what worked for you. Right. So after you express that, you say, Okay, I wish I did that differently. And they'll say, Thanks, mom. And you say, Hey, do you have it do you have a space to hear the needs I was trying to meet? The needs I was trying to meet was love and connection. So I'm wondering if there's a way to meet needs for love and connection. Can you, before you even strategize that, I would say, hey, is that do you like like love and connection if it wasn't in front of your friends? Do you still appreciate that? And they'll yeah, I do. Great, great, that's uh that really feels good. So now how do we do both? Oh well, maybe and then you could even suggest, what if I give you a hug and a kiss before we leave the house? Or in the car? Or what if we do a hug and a kiss in the house, and then when you're when you're going in with your friends, we do like a little signal, and the little signal could just be a thumbs up or two thumbs up, and that means, hey mom, I really love you and care about you, and thank you so much for finding a way to express that that also meets my need for acceptance and belonging with my friends.
Alona:Yes. How expansive the strategies got when both parties had their needs heard.
Matt:Exactly.
Alona:Yeah, I love that. All right, all right. I have one. Um my husband listened to the last episode and told me he had a gift for me about how I interrupted him too much when we're parenting together. I immediately felt defensive. How do we use this without turning it into a weapon? Oh, yeah. So the this is great. This is it's important to name this because what I'm hearing here is not trusting the gift energy. Right, right. Not trusting that hearing it is criticism, hearing it is judgment.
Matt:It's a criticism dressed up in gift clothing.
Alona:Right. And so I'm guessing that the partner felt, oh, I'm not a good parent, or I'm not considerate or respectful, or you know, at least that's what they're hearing from their partner.
Matt:And he might and not trusting that maybe that was what he was really thinking, even though he said he has a gift, he's basically saying, I got a gift for you. You interrupt too much. So do you see how the gift was given in a way that's very easy to hear and as criticism? It's about what's wrong with the other person. Yes, and that's that's the that's part of the challenge.
Alona:That is part of the challenge. And I we talked about that in the last episode, and and there's not to condone it, but just to understand a little bit of of I think the history behind it is feedback is uncomfortable because people often don't receive it well. So it's almost like this vicious circle. Because we anticipate that it's not going to be received well, we deliver it with almost anxiety, and then it sputters out, and sometimes it comes out harsh or rough or aggressive because that's our that that paints our own discomfort with having to share it. Um and then it lands poorly, and then we get the affirmation that feedback is not well received. And so it just is that vicious cycle that continues. And this is that example is can we step back as we're trying to practice the gift? Yes, it's ideal when we can come from a needs-based consciousness where we can say, hey, when this happened, it didn't meet the following needs. But the reality is that when we first start practicing, that's how it's gonna come out. You interrupted me and I didn't like it, or dad, you were really mean, or mom, you were so embarrassing, or whatever that is.
Matt:Right. So your job, who is the receiver of the gift, is to hear that and translate it from what's coming out of their mouth to what's going on in their heart. Okay, because they don't have the skills yet to translate that themselves. That's where the that's where the the key move is. So when they say you interrupt too much, what are they really saying? What's their heart saying? Their heart might be saying, Oh, I so want to be able to speak to. I so want to be able to have my my thoughts and my feelings fully heard before somebody else adds theirs. And when that happens, where they start speaking before I'm finished, I feel really frustrated. And I might even feel a little sad. It's almost like what I'm saying doesn't matter. And that's really hard for me. And I know what you're saying is important and what I'm saying is important. I wonder if there's a way where we can both say what we need to while taking turns.
Alona:Oof. And wouldn't that have landed differently than you're always interrupting me?
Matt:Right, but if you can hear that, yes, underneath. Yes. So just almost ignore the content, just enough content to get to what to connect you to the heart.
Alona:That's the beauty, is that if you are committed to giving and receiving gifts in your family, there also has to be this commitment to understanding that it's going to be messy at first. And so to give each other the benefit of the doubt, that the idea behind the gift is to create a greater connection. And so not to get locked up in the words of the actual gift, but what the meaning behind it is, what the needs that weren't met are. And you're doing that in a partnership, whether it's with your kids or or with your partner.
Matt:Right. And that is the key. And I would tell the partner also, I would say, hey, I'm gonna do my best to hear what's going on in your heart. If you could help share from the heart, that makes that sort of shares the work of keeping our connection strong. If I have to do all of the work of maintaining our connection, it becomes really heavy for me. So you can also ask your partner, hey, would you be willing to try and use this language or learn some of this language? Now, to me, it's still more important to get the gift than for the if they said, Hey, you know what, I don't really have time to learn this, I would still want to hear that they're upset being interrupted. Because it it's even worse if they're upset being interrupted, they don't share the resentment festers. But you can make, you know, maybe not in the moment when they're giving you the gift, because at that point it's sacred, where you just get excited and say, Thank you so much. But then later you can circle back and say, Hey, would you be willing, you know, to help me? Sometimes my brain takes it so personally, and if you shift the language a little bit, you could help my brain hear you without taking it personally. It doesn't hurt as much. And now you see you're using the same language about me versus saying, you know what the problem is when you use use the gift, you use this terrible critical language, you're really bad at it. Yes, you see the difference. So I'm now doing the same thing, but I'm trying to speak from the heart.
Alona:Yes. And it's only a weapon if one, you're unable to receive it, or two, you're mutually not committed to bridging connection. Yes. Otherwise, it's just a misspoken, you know, or a tragic way to share what's coming up for you because that's the only way we're comfortable at first.
Matt:Yeah. There's this whole idea around words, you know, words can be weapons. It's a very interesting weapon. Like a gun, someone shoots you, you're gonna you have no control over that. You're gonna get shot and it's gonna hurt. Unless they're a bad shot. But the if there's someone is using words, the only way they can hurt you is if you take them in and don't know how to translate them. And I think that's what's really powerful to me is that empathy is like a superpower. Our ability to translate what somebody says and hear what's going on in their heart is the way out of, I think, just any. I mean, it's so powerful, whether someone's angry at you, whether someone's threatening you, whether someone's using speech that you would label as hate, that is the power.
Alona:Yes. I, you know, as you're saying that, the vision that came into my head, and I really encourage parents who are interested to check this out was Marshall Rosenberg when he would, who's the father of nonviolent communication for our listeners, I know you know, um, would have his giraffe and jackal, and he'd puppet them, and the jackal would be going off, and the giraffe would just hear this beautiful message and never seem to get upset or angry.
Matt:You know, even though it still disarms them, right?
Alona:Yes. And, you know, that's the beauty of when I'm using Amari, which is the connect an app, she never gets upset. And I can tell her, hey, that's not, you know, that didn't work, or try again, or this is not it. Oh, okay, let's try this. Thank you so much for pointing that out to me. I marvel at how often I'm almost like yelling at her because I'm so frustrated. And she just comes back and says, Okay, let's try again.
Matt:Yeah. I had this nurse that I worked with at a hospital. I'm not gonna name it, but when I was on call, I did not like when I was doing conventional medicine. This was what 20 20 years ago. And this and I would answer the phone, and I'd be like, What do you want? or what do you need or something like that, you know, or just have a tone, yes? And the nurses were like scared to call me because it was nighttime on trying to sleep. And this one nurse, nothing phased her. It was like the most amazing thing. And I'm not happy about how I showed up at those times, so I'm not can you know condoning this behavior. But if I got mad, she'd be like, just keep talking, almost like she couldn't hear it. And it was so at first it'd be frustrating, and then it was disarming that I was like, it doesn't impact her. She cannot hear tone, you know, she cannot hear, and she was just super nice no matter what. And I was like, that's really powerful. More powerful than somebody like getting hurt or offended or retaliating back.
Alona:Yes, yes, indeed.
Matt:So I remember I used to tell you these stories. I'm just I don't know, like I don't actually. I'm like, how does she do this?
Alona:Yes, yeah, but really impactful. Yeah. So the bottom line for for our listener or for this letter is if the gift that we can give back is the ability to try and translate, is to hear the needs underneath the message that we're receiving. And that truly is a gift.
Matt:And it takes practice, right?
Alona:Because somebody you care about is trying to tell you that they they feel hurt or upset about something.
Matt:And what's interesting is that at first it's hard to sh to shift. But even in the moment when you say the reflect the empathic guess, so they say something that lands like criticism, and you translate that into an empathic guess, you're saying it out loud, which allows you to connect to their heart, and they get to actually connect to their heart because they're disconnected when they use the other language. And then all of a sudden, you're helping them connect to their heart while you connect to their heart, and it magically shifts. Yeah. So just by doing that, you not only help yourself hear it differently, you help them connect to their own heart, which shifts how they now continue talking to you. Absolutely. Very powerful.
Alona:Very, very powerful.
Matt:This episode of We Be Parents is brought to you by WeBeeCalm, the child calmer designed by doctors and loved by parents.
Alona:Struggling with bedtime routines or managing your child's anxiety?com transforms deep breathing into a fun and engaging activity, helping kids find their inner calm. Perfect for bedtime stressful moments or any time your child needs a little extra help to stay calm. Visit weebalm.com to learn more and bring tranquility to your family. WeBe Calm because we be in this together. Alright, you want to do one more?
Matt:One more. Which one? We have a couple here.
Alona:Let's do my kid won't give me the gift.
Matt:Alright, so my six-year-old shuts down completely when something hard happens. No talking, just silence. How do I teach this tool when they won't engage? So this is interesting. Yeah. It is hard to connect when someone doesn't want to be in dialogue. But the key to remember here is that when somebody everything anybody does is to meet needs. So when a child doesn't want to talk to you, don't hear that they don't want to talk to you. Try and guess at what needs they're meeting by not talking to you. So my big one is protection. So they might feel, hey, if I talk about this, it's going to escalate. So I'd rather not talk and have it escalated. Or I'm so angry, I'm dysregulated and overwhelmed, I can't even get words out right now. So I just need quiet to help regulate.
Alona:Or in the case of the story that I shared about Kylie in the uh past episode was dignity. She was protecting her dignity by shutting down. I don't want to give you a gift because I want you to hurt as much as I'm hurting right now.
Matt:Yeah. So is standing up for herself and wanting you to feel the pain that you've stimulated. So by her not talking, she was meeting needs for dignity, empathy, things like them.
Alona:Right. And and at the beginning, this is not going to be, it's not going to be surprising that a lot of kids are not going to want to. They don't trust the gift. They don't trust that you're not going to get really upset at them or punish them. Especially in a family that, you know, where there are the punishments.
Matt:Um they don't have they're not talking because they don't have trust. Right. That happens a lot when teachers will yell at kids and they'll ask the question that the kid knows they better not answer. You know, and and it's really the question is a way of criticizing masked in a question.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:And or the kids like, I'm going to get in trouble one way or another, I better say nothing. So again, meeting needs to protect themselves.
Alona:Absolutely.
Matt:So when that happens, though, I find it helpful to guess. But you can't be attached to getting the child to talk because if you're attached to getting the child to talk, you're basically saying, I don't care what your needs are. I just care about mine. And right now, my needs are for you to talk. And the kids trying to meet their needs by not talking. So instead, guess at what you imagine the needs they're meeting by not talking. And you can say, hey, I'm guessing that you're pretty upset right now and don't feel like talking. And just want a little bit of quiet. Yeah. Or they still might not talk. And I just want you to know that, you know, like I am want to respect that. And I'm going to just circle back later and check back in. And you don't have to respond to that even. Now my now Kylie was funny when when she didn't want to talk, she could blink. So we had a a blink, remember a blink once for no and twice for yes. So I used to say that it really upsets me if I'm talking and somebody doesn't respond, doesn't meet my needs for respect. And I say, but sometimes you're so upset you don't want to respond. So we said, How about you blink once for yes and twice for no? And she was able to do that. So we figured out a way to still meet her needs and my needs that didn't include talking. And I think if the kids trust that, that's the first step.
Alona:Absolutely. Absolutely. And sometimes giving that space is what builds that trust to say, hey, we don't need to talk about it right now, but I'd really love to know when you're ready, if you're ready, what's sitting in your heart, and I'll be right here. And really leave that alone and over time build the trust that, okay, I don't have to share it right now. They're still there, they're still, you know, available to me, um, is really important.
Matt:Yeah.
Alona:And I think uh inviting it, um, you know, we talked about that in the last episode too, is if you're modeling it, if amongst partners, if possible, or with other children, or if you invite it with a gamification, whether it's a couple dollars, you know, if if they give a gift and you have you're not able to receive it, or your time, or they get to pick the dessert for that night, or you guys get to go out and do something that they've been wanting to do, or they get to pick whatever that is, you can get creative on what it is, but to really show them, hey, this matters, and if I fall short, you still win.
Matt:Right. And that's to me, the offering the gift, reminding them there's a gift, but not forcing them to talk. So if you say, Hey, I imagine there's a gift here, and maybe you're not ready to give it to me, I'm gonna circle back after dinner and check in. Maybe we could check in at bedtime, or you can give me the gift anytime you feel ready.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:Now with Kylie, I would say blink once for yes if that's okay, or blink twice if that's okay. You can add that in if you want.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:All right, so I like this part, the game.
Alona:L yeah.
Matt:Tension trade-al. Tension trade-off. We need to get some kind of music that's like tension trade-offs. Here we go. All right. So here we go. I'm gonna ask you. Okay. You snapped at your child in front of your partner. Do you apologize immediately, even if it's awkward? Or do you wait until you're alone so it's more grounded and less performative?
Alona:I had to pick one of those. See, I hate those because there's always an in-between. But yes, I would apologize immediately even if it's awkward.
Matt:Yeah. Okay, now you can editorialize.
Alona:Yeah, so you never want to be performative. That's that goes against the whole point. So um if if doing it in the moment results in you being performative, then yes, do not do it in the moment because you've got to build trust around that interaction. It's got to be really genuine and sincere. If that is only available to you in private, then start in private. Even if it's awkward, I think that's a great practice. And we talked about apologizing. What does that even look like? You know, there's a real difference between I'm sorry, I'm sorry, will you forgive me? And oof, I really regret how that landed. I can see how the impact that that had. I like the latter.
Matt:Yeah. I like that. I like the apologizing. It's not the word sorry that's a problem. It's it's the energy behind it. And if you're just wanting forgiveness, that's that's not where we want to go. Or if the energy to me is about more about you and not about the pain that you stimulated, then you're really just meeting your needs and not caring for them.
Alona:Well, it almost becomes a hall pass, right? I'm sorry. Can you I apologized? Why can't you just for let it go?
Matt:Or the flip side, when the parents, when the kid did something the parents didn't like, and the parents like, apologize.
Alona:Right.
Matt:You need to apologize.
Alona:Yes. It's more about the tone than the timing. You need to ground yourself, and wherever that can happen, whether it's publicly or privately, that's where the interaction should begin.
Matt:Yeah, because I don't think there's anything wrong. We'll do that if we if we fight in front of the kids, we want to make up in front of the kids. But we might we might connect first privately, but then we go back and tell the kids right that we are we are doing a redo. Yeah. But we are repairing just because we want to model it and practice it and get, and I tell them it's not just for them to see. I although if you see the fighting, you want to see them the full circle, but it also helps us get it into our system, it gets it into our bones.
Alona:Yes.
Matt:So it's it's okay to perform, just name that. So okay.
Alona:All right. Another one. My turn. Okay. Your child is upset after not being chosen for something. Do you sit with their disappointment, even if it's excruciating, try to shift the mood to something lighter?
Matt:Sit with disappointing even if it's excruciating.
Alona:I know you do that well. I jump to try and fix it. I can don't hurt, don't hurt. Oh, how do we make this better?
Matt:That's been a practice I worked hard on. But it's it's all about sitting in the pain, holding, called holding the tension, sitting in the pain. Marsha would call it enjoying their pain. Not that you're sadistic or anything, but like you're really okay with all emotions. And let that and then through that, you you're there's a natural progression or evolution of feelings and integration that happens energetically.
Alona:Yes, it is still a significant work in progress for me, but I value it when I see it. And yes.
Matt:Yeah, and it's like a reflex. It's not that there's anything wrong with it. Just notice that when you go right to fixing or cheering up, you're taking you're not letting them stay with their pain. Now the question is, why let them stay with their pain? Isn't pain bad? And to me, it's about building resilience and the ability to be with unpleasant emotions. There's no such thing as a good or a bad feeling. I mean, feelings actually are words that we use to describe sensations in our body that we then sort of define as, oh, there's this sensation, which is hard to put into words, but I think it's like sadness. So you're really just naming sort of an energetic state in your body, and we're calling that feeling sadness, and that feeling anger, and that feeling frustration, and that feeling hurt. And sometimes those sensations can be really pleasant, and other times they're unpleasant based on is the needs met or not met. So I can, you know, if someone says sadness, oh, I have the heaviness in my eyes, and maybe there's some tears, and and then there's a little bit of uh flushing in my cheeks. But I've laughed really hard to where I'm crying and I'm flushed, you know. So the tears themselves aren't good or bad. The flushing isn't good or bad. It's just a matter of sort of the context of what happened. And to me, there's also like a heaviness in my heart, and the challenge there is because the inner critic gets going, which can make us feel really ashamed and embarrassed and guilty. So that often colors the feelings. And Marshall would talk about that in nonviolent communication. He would say there's a shame type of sadness, which she would say is almost like a tainted feeling. And then there's a sweet sadness, which she would say is you're just connected to the heart because there's some needs that weren't met, but it feels sweet. And and sweet in the sense that it's not this tainted. So I don't know if that makes sense or if you can elaborate on that. I'm trying to express something. I'm not sure how well I'm doing.
Alona:Yeah, I think what I'm hearing is almost like an invitation to feel, you know, rather than a fear of feeling those things that are unpleasant. And at the same time, I think, you know, it can be really hard when somebody you really care about is having those unpleasant sensations or those discomforts. But I think you named it. I think building resilience is really important because the reality is that life ebbs and flows. It's not always going to be on the up. And you are it's almost a disservice to your children if you brace them every single time they're about to fall and they never learn what it feels that they can fall and get back up, and it's okay, and they're okay.
Matt:And when they fall and they're hurt and you're caring for them, or when somebody's sad and they're crying and you're caring for them, that can be really connected and fulfilling and satisfying and empowering. So so there can be deep connection and peace that they experience. Like to me, it's all about feeling like peace and connection and and fulfillment. And when you support somebody who's sad and watch that feeling pass, almost like a kid that hurts themselves and they jump up on your lap and they cry for a little bit and then they stop crying all of a sudden, they just jump off and run back and start playing again. Allowing those feelings to be present and integrate, that creates such a powerful, not only connection, but experience.
Alona:That image is, I think, what you were trying to express is that ability to take away the fear of having those emotions. It's you can have those emotions and you will be okay experiencing them. You know, you will have some sadness, but you will not have that sadness for the rest of your existence. Just because you're crying now doesn't mean you're going to be crying forever. And um, and you you lower the weight of feeling by allowing your kids to feel and see, okay, I felt really horrible and I learned how to hold that and get past it or let it pass through me.
Matt:Yeah, and I think a lot of the unpleasantness with sadness or anything is the fear or the intense around you of trying to fix it or stop it. Right, the comfort that we have that we have with it. I don't, and I think we entangle that with the actual feeling and then say sadness feels unpleasant. Right. When in fact, sadness without the urgency to fix it and without the trust that they're okay, that's the unpleasantness.
Alona:Yes, I agree with that. Completely resonate. So, what do you want to leave our listeners with as far as one last thing?
Matt:I like that we don't need to be perfect. We just need to be present. Open it up to say, hey, tell me what happened in your heart so that I can care for that.
Alona:I love that because it's a real sign of trust that you have with your partners or your kids or your parents or your friends or whoever you're engaging with in that moment to be present and stay open and to allow that empathic connection. Well, thank you everyone for listening today. We did move to We Be Together from We Be Parents, but it is the same content expanded to include even more. So a focus on families, children across generations, families, parents, parents of parents.
Matt:Adult parents, parenting their parents.
Alona:Yes. And so we really appreciate you guys listening. If you have questions, or if you'd like us to cover topics, or if you want to send us a letter that we can read um on the on the podcast, please do so at parents at weebe together.com. We'd love to hear from you.
Matt:And please rate and review and subscribe, share with all your friends, help us spread the word. We appreciate your support.
Alona:Thank you, everyone. Bye. Bye.