Reversing Trauma, Releasing Shame: How Validation & Healthy Anger Heal

In Part Two of this ANEW Insight conversation, Dr. Supatra Tovar continues with psychotherapist, speaker, and anger expert Bronwyn Schweigerdt to unpack what it really means to reverse trauma—and why validation, healthy anger, and embodied integration are central to healing.

Bronwyn explains why two people can live through the same event yet have very different outcomes: it’s not only the incident, but the “trauma behind the trauma”—the unvalidated anger, self-directed rage, avoidance, and shame left unprocessed in the body. Through clear examples (Tom vs. Terrance), she shows how attunement and empathy protect children, while invalidation breeds isolation, self-blame, and PTSD symptoms that can persist into adulthood.

You’ll hear how shame functions like self-disgust/self-hatred, driving disordered eating, gut issues, compulsions, and substance use—often layered atop repressed anger. Bronwyn shares her integration exercise step-by-step: feel the sensation in the body, follow it back to the imprinting memory, then re-parent that younger self with validation, protection, and a symbolic “return” of misassigned shame. The result? More grounded boundaries, reduced reactivity, and genuine relief.

The episode also explores:

• Medication & emotions: how a “numb the feeling” paradigm can delay core healing—and how to align short-term pharmacologic support with the long-term goal of feeling your feelings.
• Severe diagnoses: a striking case where recognizing a chronically invalidating parent, setting firm boundaries, and honoring anger correlated with resolution of psychotic symptoms.
• Parenting for resilience: why authoritative (not authoritarian) parenting works—validating feelings, owning mistakes, apologizing, repairing, and modeling growth so kids learn, “I get to be human.”
  
  

If you’ve ever wondered how to actually move through trauma rather than manage it forever, this conversation gives you a practical roadmap rooted in compassion, embodiment, and truth-telling.

What You’ll Learn

• The “trauma behind the trauma” and why invalidation magnifies harm
• How shame + avoided anger lodge in the body and fuel symptoms
• A simple, repeatable integration exercise to dislodge shame
• Authoritative parenting scripts that validate without capitulating
• When meds help, when they hinder—and how to pair them with therapy
• How boundaries, validation, and healthy anger restore self-trust
  
  

Timestamps
 [00:00] Reversing trauma: anger, shame, and the “trauma behind the trauma”
 [03:00] Tom vs. Terrance: empathy as protection, isolation as injury
 [06:00] Evoking (not bypassing) feelings before validation
 [07:30] Shame, self-disgust, and links to eating/gut issues & compulsions
 [10:00] The integration exercise: tracing sensations to imprinting memories
 [11:30] Severe illness case study: boundaries and symptom resolution
 [16:00] From anger to compas

Thank you for joining us on this journey to wellness. Remember, the insights and advice shared on the ANEW Body Insight Podcast are for educational and informational purposes only and do not constitute medical advice. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making any changes to your health routine. To learn more about the podcast and stay updated on new episodes, visit ANEW Body Insight Podcast at anew-insight.com. To watch this episode on YouTube, visit @my.anew.insight. Follow us on social media at @my.anew.insight on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads for more updates and insights. Thank you for tuning in! Stay connected with us for more empowering stories and expert guidance. Until next time, stay well and keep evolving with ANEW Body Insight!

Transcript

0:00 bronwyn_2_06-25-2025_123330: 0:01

so I believe what makes trauma traumatic because you know, they have shown that two people can undergo the exact same experience one person develops PTSD. The other doesn't. So what I believe creates the trauma isn't the actual incident itself, but it's the suppressed anger or disassociate anger that is still in our bodies, held in our bodies after it, and not just anger at the person, a lot of times anger at ourselves. In fact, I would say the majority, so this was another study I ran into that actually found that PTSD was more linked with anger at ourselves than any other kind of anger. And then the other thing that makes it traumatic is the shame from that trauma. So those are really the things that anger and the shame that we have not resolved, that we have not worked through.

dr--supatra-tovar_2_06-25-2025_123329: 0:02

the avoidance of those really distressing feelings is another reason why.

bronwyn_2_06-25-2025_123330: 0:03

really humiliating. And Tom says, yeah, it is. And his mom says, what do you think you need when you feel that way? And then Tom's like, you know, I think I need to tell the teacher. Okay. Sounds good. Okay. That's a perfect. Mom scenario. Most of us are not like that. I sure wasn't myself, but that's a great example that that that first boy Tom is not traumatized by the bullies. There's no trauma. Because he's able, so what's shareable is bearable. He is sharing his feelings about what's going on with his mom. His mom's like resonating with those feelings. She's showing empathy, she's validating, she's naming you, felt humiliated. What do you need to do? He's getting everything he needs through that relationship and through it, he's learning to trust himself. 'cause she's saying, what do you need? She's not going and telling the teacher for him or the principal. She's saying, what do you need, Tom? And then he's like trusting himself to do it. So this is, this little boy is gonna grow up to be a very healthy person. let's say Terrance, he's getting bullied, but he doesn't have a parent that shows any attunement at home. So, you know what? Most kids like Terrance, whether it's bullying at school or sexual abuse or what have you, they don't tell anybody. That's the trauma behind the trauma. Not just that they don't tell anyone, but that No, they, they're smart not to because they feel more humiliated and more alone and more isolated. really humiliating. And Tom says, yeah, it is. And his mom says, what do you think you need when you feel that way? And then Tom's like, you know, I think I need to tell the teacher. Okay. Sounds good. Okay. That's a perfect. Mom scenario. Most of us are not like that. I sure wasn't myself, but that's a great example that that that first boy Tom is not traumatized by the bullies. There's no trauma. Because he's able, so what's shareable is bearable. He is sharing his feelings about what's going on with his mom. His mom's like resonating with those feelings. She's showing empathy, she's validating, she's naming you, felt humiliated. What do you need to do? He's getting everything he needs through that relationship and through it, he's learning to trust himself. 'cause she's saying, what do you need? She's not going and telling the teacher for him or the principal. She's saying, what do you need, Tom? And then he's like trusting himself to do it. So this is, this little boy is gonna grow up to be a very healthy person. let's say Terrance, he's getting bullied, but he doesn't have a parent that shows any attunement at home. So, you know what? Most kids like Terrance, whether it's bullying at school or sexual abuse or what have you, they don't tell anybody. That's the trauma behind the trauma. Not just that they don't tell anyone, but that No, they, they're smart not to because they feel more humiliated and more alone and more isolated. It would be more painful to open up to a parent and say, I'm getting bullied at school, and the parent not showing any concern or, or making it feel like you are the problem. Well, what are you doing, Terrance? What are you doing wrong? Right. That's more traumatic. So Terrance isn't gonna say anything, but he's holding all of that humiliation inside that shame from the bullying, he's holding his anger at the bully inside. He is going to experience trauma. So it's the trauma behind the trauma. So, um, that's what we need to focus on, and that's why having a good therapist, but also a good parent, a good friend, and being that person for ourselves where we validate our own feelings, where we say, you know what, Bronwyn, you are allowed to feel as much anger, as much rage, as much hatred right now as you want. Your feelings matter. They are valid, and we're gonna allow those feelings to give us wisdom for our next step forward. What we need to do, we can trust ourselves to put those feelings to use in a healthy, productive way.

dr--supatra-tovar_2_06-25-2025_123329: 0:06

And if so, what are, where are they coming out on the other side of this? What do you see as the result? Absolutely. And I think that, you know, you had mentioned that when this happens and they're not validated, they embody shame and shame. I see, and, and you can probably validate this with your work and nutrition as well. I see so many people who struggle with either eating disorders or disordered eating, especially when it comes to emotional or comfort eating, that they're primarily driven by shame.

bronwyn_2_06-25-2025_123330: 0:08

It's self-hatred. Shame is self-hatred, self-disgust. Um, and so I see it definitely, like you're saying, it's related not just to eating disorder or disordered eating, but I would say probably almost all gut disorders.

dr--supatra-tovar_2_06-25-2025_123329: 0:09

Yes, absolutely. I would also say that shame is often behind substance use disorders as well. And when you look at it, they're very similar. Uh, you know, comfort or emotional eating and substance use. They do provide kind of a mental escape from all of that pressure and pain that they're feeling. A way to dissociate, a way to fill.

bronwyn_2_06-25-2025_123330: 0:10

mania, psychosis, all of that. I think that's so beautiful. You were just mentioning some more severe, uh, mental health disorders like bipolar and, and psychosis. I'm the sick one in my family. I have all these mental illnesses. And I'm like, it sounds like you are the actually sane one. The only one that has feelings and your feelings are really valid. once she was able to see that her, you know, even her hallucinations, she had, you know, kind of dementors, you know, from Harry Potter, the Dementors, the soul suckers.

dr--supatra-tovar_2_06-25-2025_123329: 0:13

Wow, that's amazing. So it can't be her. It's gotta be me. And when they actually do make that connection, you do see a rift happening. And I think that that's where some people will go, no contact But when they stick with it and they continue to work through that. What I actually see happen with my clients is that eventually they, the anger resolves itself and then they see the parent very clearly and they see all of the factors that led to the parent being this way, and they actually develop empathy and compassion. But making those realizations can resolve some really severe mental health diagnoses, and I think that that's absolutely beautiful. So now we've talked a lot about parents not necessarily doing the best thing. What are some ways, if there's parents out here who are like, oh my gosh, I don't wanna do this to my kid. How do I figure this out? How can parents raise emotionally resilient kids without teaching them to suppress these difficult feelings of anger Humans. You know what humans do best? They make mistakes. We make so many mistakes. We're so good at it. And the best humans learn from their mistakes and see it as an opportunity to grow wiser. And that's who I'm gonna be, and with my child, that's who I'm gonna be. So I'm gonna learn to attune to them, and even when they're angry with me, I'm gonna learn as, as hard as it is initially to go, okay, Susie? I can see where you're coming from. I can hear that.

bronwyn_2_06-25-2025_123330: 0:18

I don't blame you for feeling frustrated with me when I say this, but I do that. Yeah, I get it. You're, you're right. You're right to feel annoyed when I am. I am being kind of hypocritical. Thank you for pointing that out. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I'm gonna work on that. I'm gonna grow and be a better human. And when we can be a human and model being a human for our kid, which means listening to them, being, taking it in responding with an apology, owning it, and then changing and growing from it. We model being the best human, and they are going to walk in our footsteps. We are giving them the best gift on the planet because they're learning, oh, I get to be human. That's what humans do when they make mistakes, they own it, they apologize, they, they change as a result, we're gonna have the best damn kids in the world if

dr--supatra-tovar_2_06-25-2025_123329: 0:19

If they can help a child understand maybe why there's a rule, um, or take the time to really hear what their child might be resisting in them and understand where they're coming from and validate that and be, you know, have humility.

bronwyn_2_06-25-2025_123330: 0:20

I wanna be authoritative. So if I say to little 8-year-old, you know, Johnny. Johnny, I don't blame you for, for being mad that I'm not giving you that cookie. I don't blame you. It doesn't mean you're gonna get the cookie though, so I'm still the authority, but I'm not authoritarian. I'm authoritative so I can Uh. Giving them a little bit more freedom to feel independent or to feel like they have, you know, some sort sense of autonomy is so empowering and it's also modeling how they can become that way as parents themselves. So let's switch a little bit. I wanna talk about, um. The medical establishment and how medication is used sometimes in a way to suppress emotions, to suppress anger. Yeah. There's kind of this, I think what you're naming, what I'm hearing is this underlying pervasive, you know, tacit belief that emotions might be pathological. You know, and I definitely, getting back to the client that I shared who did have psychosis for those 13 years. She has had so many, um, times in psychiatric facilities over those years, she was traumatized every time because she very much was made to feel there like her emotions were pathological. And that's kind of the underlying, you know, I guess the ideology around medication, right? Is like, let's numb your emotions. Let's numb 'em. Someone who's depressed or anxious is already numbing them because that is, they're already dissociated from mainly the anger or the shame. So what you know, those pharmaceuticals are doing is just numbing them more, or numbing them from, they're already numbing them, right? So had clients actually tell me, I wanna get off my meds because I need to feel my feelings now in therapy. So I think really it would be great if we could all get on board like that is the ultimate objective, right? Whether you're pro or anti-medication for short term, the long term objective maybe we can all agree around is that we should all be feeling our feelings. That feelings are not pathological, even anger is not pathological. And we should all be committed as a community medical community, maybe as a collective whole to knowing that feelings are not pathological. Yeah. There's kind of this, I think what you're naming, what I'm hearing is this underlying pervasive, you know, tacit belief that emotions might be pathological. You know, and I definitely, getting back to the client that I shared who did have psychosis for those 13 years. She has had so many, um, times in psychiatric facilities over those years, she was traumatized every time because she very much was made to feel there like her emotions were pathological. And that's kind of the underlying, you know, I guess the ideology around medication, right? Is like, let's numb your emotions. Let's numb 'em. Someone who's depressed or anxious is already numbing them because that is, they're already dissociated from mainly the anger or the shame. So what you know, those pharmaceuticals are doing is just numbing them more, or numbing them from, they're already numbing them, right? So had clients actually tell me, I wanna get off my meds because I need to feel my feelings now in therapy. So I think really it would be great if we could all get on board like that is the ultimate objective, right? Whether you're pro or anti-medication for short term, the long term objective maybe we can all agree around is that we should all be feeling our feelings. That feelings are not pathological, even anger is not pathological. And we should all be committed as a community medical community, maybe as a collective whole to knowing that feelings are not pathological.

dr--supatra-tovar_2_06-25-2025_123329: 0:24

so it became easier to put someone on medication or to call them crazy or hysterical, um, as a way to kind of, uh, suppress them and, uh, keep them under their, you know, rule of law. And that's where the medication can be really helpful as you're working through all of these difficulties and problems. And once you get to a certain level of functioning. That's when they're actually meant to be, um, you know, slowly titrated down. And so I think we need to be a little bit more, uh, aware that, um, you know, we're not meant to be on these things for life.

bronwyn_2_06-25-2025_123330: 0:26

absolutely. So mainly my podcast. That's really what I wanna get out to the public. That's kind of my my passion, um, where I talk about all this stuff with wonderful, well mainly just me talking these days, but with wonderful people like you, Supatra um, that is Angry at the Right Things. And I also have a YouTube channel these days. Talk about it, that we do explore it, and I encourage people to also shop around. You do not have to stick with the first therapist you find, and most often, um, you know, you, you may have to go from person to person until you find the right fit. And just so you all know too, um. It doesn't even necessarily matter the modality they're using. You're really illuminating.