Values-First Marketing

5 Essential Mindset Shifts for Sales Success with Renee Hribar

• Megan Kachigan • Season 1 • Episode 17

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If the word "sales" makes you feel uneasy - filling your stomach with butterflies instead of excitement, you’re not alone. Many entrepreneurs struggle with the idea of selling, often associating it with pushy tactics or feeling "salesy." But what if I told you that the key to transforming your sales isn’t about learning a new technique but instead embracing a mindset shift for sales? 

This shift is all about reimagining what sales can look like when it’s aligned with your values and personality. Instead of feeling like a chore or something to be avoided, selling can become a fun, enjoyable, and authentic part of your business. In this episode, Renee and I talk through five essential mindset shifts that have not only transformed my approach to sales but have also helped countless others turn their sales process into a natural, fulfilling experience. By the end of this, you’ll see that sales isn’t just about transactions—it’s about building relationships, having fun, and staying true to yourself. 


0:01:42 - Biggest lesson learned from selling a cherry juice business (and then taking a 5-year break after having her child!)

0:04:14 - Renee is having the most fun in business. Here’s her approach to maintaining happiness and intentionality in work and life.

0:07:41 - Strategies for making friends and clients online

0:10:43 - Mindset shifts that can skyrocket sales

0:16:54 - Common mistakes entrepreneurs make when selling

0:20:10 - The seven questions to ask during the sales process to not feel salesy

0:25:27 - The value of building long-term relationships with clients


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Welcome to the copywriting for coaches podcast. My name is Megan catchin, and I am obsessed with having your brand actually sound like you on the internet. We help you write all the things that you've been trying to articulate about your business but have never been able to put into copy. We're going to go deep to up level your business without adding more to your already full plate. We'll keep it simple and sustainable. Sound like a breath of relief. Let's dive in. I am with Renee rebar today, who has been a sales professional since 1994 in New York, making her first million before she was 25 years old, she has gone on to sell millions of dollars in products and services and train 1000s to sell for the first time. She is known in her industry as fun, energetic sales coach who leads with heart and I co sign that that's definitely true. She is a TEDx speaker who offers training sessions at global conferences on demand, courses and virtual workshops. She skillfully breaks down her decades of sales experience with her one of a kind, laugh and learn teaching style, you will certainly gain a new view of the softer side of sales. And Renee and I got to hang out in person. Last year. We had tacos together after your event, and what stood out to me the most from our time together, and this is true of you online, but I feel like is amplified even more getting to hang out with you in person is just that you are having so much fun in business, and this is one of the reasons why I really wanted to talk to you on the podcast. Is like, I was like, who's having the most fun in business? I was like, Renee is having the most fun in business? You're always traveling. You get to hang out with your mastermind ladies in person, hosting event events, always making everyone laugh. So how do you do it? Tell us your secrets. Oh my gosh. Thank you. Thank you. I think my secret is I've been there, done that already. I did it the hard way. I did the burnout. I did, I mean, my first company, when I sold it, I had to literally sit on the yoga floor. Like the owner of this yoga studio that I would go to every day was like, Do you want to buy the place? I'm like, No, I didn't need to reset. I would go sit out. And I just need quiet. I need to because I was so burned out from working like 90 hour weeks, right? Like, that's I was doing in my sales agency, and I started a cherry Well, I had clients that eventually became partners, and so we had a cherry juice business. They were PhDs and they were Cancer Research doctors. They also taught at the local university here, Wayne State University. And if you were going to be a doctor, you were going to have them as your professors, and they had this great juice that couldn't sell it. I was like, Well, I can help you. So they ran out of money to pay me as a consultant, so I said, Well, I'll be your partner. I'll just take rev share, and we were able to get that into 180 stores in two years, 24 months, and then sell that. So we sold, I went to a big, huge food show East Jacob Javid center, sold a bunch of cherry juice, and then we sold the purchase orders to our competition. That's crazy. I did not know that about you, yeah. So that was a big chunk of my life. And then right when we did that. We had all agreed, like we were all going on different life paths, so we were going to disassemble anyway. And we just ended up doing it with some cash in our pocket, which was pretty nice. Yeah, five years off after that, and I found because I found out I was finally going to have our child, you know, having the that at that point I was, like, 38 years old, 39 and I finally had him. And I think at that point, I realized I cannot continue to work the way I used to work. I cannot be a person in this world that I want to be, a wife, a mother, a sister, a daughter that isn't going to embrace every moment. And so I made a commitment to myself, and when I finally, when my kiddo finally went to school, and I was like, What am I going to do for eight hours a day while he's there? My friends were like, We're busy. We love you, but you, you're a lot. Told that a lot from my friends and family my whole life. I said, Oh, well, I should I'll consult. I'll just do something online. And I found out that I absolutely love it, but I also know how I know myself. I am addictive, right? Like, I'll, like, get focused on something and do it for 40 hours straight and be like, what was, you know, what happened with my week? You know, that's why Netflix I can't even start because I will binge that whole season. Don't even go down that rabbit hole. Yeah, on Monday, when I wake and I finally leave my day down. So Know thyself. So how do I keep having fun? I make it a point I know myself, and that's my best advice, as much as that is really not that specific, know thyself, right? What are our tendencies? Work with our tendencies versus trying to become somebody else. I'm not going to become somebody else. I am, right? Didn't pop I say that, uh, yeah. So thank you for noticing that I have fun. I do work at it. It is an effort. You make it seem so natural. Well, because I have to know thyself, right? So I love travel. So if I can incorporate work with travel, I'll know. Myself automatically have more fun doing it, so it doesn't feel like a chore. Same work has to be done. But if I get to do it in a place that I love, like New York City, where I just was, or Miami, where I just was in January, or somewhere else that's fun, that will immediately raise my vibe, raise my energy, and that will automatically translate to yeah, there. The energy is contagious. And then everyone else is having fun and gets to experience a new city that's a fun city. And yeah, we're like, we were in California having tacos. I mean, yeah, yes, tacos in the land, right, right? Tacos on the beach in Santa Monica. Where can you go? That's what I'm saying. Like, enjoy Carpe Diem and enjoy it. Put yourself in the right position to have fun. Yeah, yeah. So good. I appreciate that you're intentional about and you like make it seem effortless, but it's like, refreshing to hear that like, No, you're actually very intentional about that. And you know what you enjoy, and you can bring that natural fun energy, and then everyone else is just like, having a blast as a result. Totally. Have you ever heard the saying, like, if Mama's not happy, nobody's happy? Yeah, all the time, Happy wife, happy life. So we have to know what makes us happy. What makes Is it a certain glass? Like, sometimes I just really like, like having even just, like sparkling water in like, a really cool glass. I have those little drink umbrellas. I'll just put it in with a little lime. It's just sparkling water. But I just love that glass. And when it has a little umbrella, and I just feel, I just feel great. So it could be something as little as that doesn't have to be, you know, traveling. It could be just little things. What makes us happy that journey and then intentionally do that, yeah? And it's so funny how it can so often be those simple, little free things and that we're like, we're just like, overlooking this thing that was just like sitting right in front of us this whole time. Yeah? Because otherwise, life can become a bit of a slog, right? It is hard work being married, it is hard work being a mother, it is hard work, working and serving clients, but it doesn't have to be hard work, right? There's happy work and there's hard work. So can I whistle while, while I work? Right? Like, what does that look like for me? And that that was a journey of many decades, and that's why, how it might look effortless now, but it certainly is not. Yeah, it took time to get there and a lot of intentionality. So okay, so now I want you to share your true like expertise with us, of like mindset shifts to increase your our online sales by having more fun. So can we really make friends and sales online. How does that happen? Yes, perfect. Thank you for that question. So when I first started coming into the online space, the first place that I hung out were Facebook groups. There was this group online called boss moms. It's still around, but there were like 400 people in it. Then now there's like 20,000 30,000 a lot of people now. So the woman who was running that, that's who I first became friends with. That was one of my first mentors, in essence. And so I didn't want to be either a salesperson or a friend and on Facebook, especially in Facebook groups, where it's, we're talking about our kids and what we're, you know what the cost of the tooth fairy is, and you know where we're going to go for family vacation. What's a good? You know, safe place to go with your family. You know, is it really safe to take your kid on a cruise, a Disney cruise? You know? What's the what are the good? What are the pros and cons? Because we were having those kind of conversations as well as well. Should we use Asana or click up, or should we use ConvertKit or Active Campaign like so we were talking about business and life, and I think that a lot of us women fall into that as well. We don't just talk about work all the time. We do talk about our family, our life, our pets, whatever. And so I needed to find a way that felt genuine to who I was as a person. And yes, I genuinely did want to know what the tooth fairy was, you know, given out at your house. And I did genuinely want to know also how you're finding leads, because I might be able to help with that in the way that I help. And so I had to find a way to do that. And so how to make friends and clients online was to be friendly, but also invite people to lots of different things, not just offers. So that can look like coffee chats, that can look like I do a group, like networking thing, like, hey, let's just come and bring your water or your coffee or your tea or whatever, and we're just gonna hang out and get to know each other better for 30 minutes, right? Or I do the if I go to a city for one of my events, I still have maybe a little meetup for people that aren't a part of that want to come and hang out for a coffee. So little things like that, always inviting people things, oh, I'm doing a free talk. Do you want to come to it? Or I'm doing a talk in somebody else's somebody else's group? Do you want to come hang out in there? So inviting people to things is way, is the way that I make friends and clients. Because eventually I will invite them if it makes sense to something that is paid. But I don't only show up when I want to sell them something. Yes, amen to that. We are all sick of those people in our DMS where it's just like, you want to buy this ring, right? We almost got stuff. There's nothing wrong with that. But I also, you know, we're whole people, not just sellers of this product or service, and we feel so much better as buyers. I feel like when we know the whole person, or you know more of them beyond just the thing that they're selling, we know a little bit more about them personally. We feel, yeah, like that friendly connection with them. And I feel like you just get better clients that way too. If you're like, we're friends too. Yep, agreed, agreed. Great. So what? What are the biggest mindset shifts that women can make that are going to skyrocket their sales. Yes, this is huge. So when I work with women in the online space, they are typically straight up a plus experts. They also do not typically self identify as that. They've also typically earned their stripes from working for someone else, right? They either they brought it from corporate, they refined their skills in their master's degree or certification program they have like they have their chops. So when they come to the online space to make these offers, they're used to being in an environment where people are coming to them self aware and can explain their problems, because typically their boss, hey, we got this problem. We know how. You know how to solve it. Here's your project. See you in a week. Person works diligently on the project, delivers over delivers, gives it back to the boss. And boss is like, Thank you, Mary, that was amazing. High five, you get a raise or high five, here's some here, here's a cookie. Don't always give us a raise. So with that in energy, we're used to people coming to us who are self aware and know exactly what they want, and maybe even speak our language right, speak the words of our industry that is very far from where most customers are going to come from outside of a corporate environment. And so the biggest mindset shift I want them to have is that they are supposed to meet people before they need them before their needs. Like you're supposed to meet people before they realize they need a whole new copy, rewrite, launch. You know what I mean? Because then when they do realize that you're the one they call on top of that, when somebody does come to us say, oh, Megan, I need you, or, Oh, Mary, I need you, in my hypothetical scenario here, Mary doesn't have to launch into here are all the ways I can help you. It doesn't have to launch into this big presentation around why she should be chosen, because she's also not on a job interview. Our the biggest mindset switch is people aren't going to come to us ready to know, ready, ready to go, and they don't know everything. The customer is not always right. Typically, they don't know what they want. They don't know how to describe it. So we have to make sure that the biggest mindset shift we have is that we don't have to prove anything. What we do have to do is ask questions, specifically disqualifying questions. They're like, oh, I need you. What do you charge? Great question. I work with people in a lot of different ways, some from free all the way up to $10,000 it just depends on what they need. But at this point, I just want to make sure that I'm getting the full picture, because when we get to know each other better, or when I finally get the full picture, then I can give you my best advice, even if it's not me. So that feels like, that feels like such a more natural way to like like sales doesn't feel so scary when you approach it from that perspective. Yes, yeah, 100% Yeah. And I'm sure you hear like so many people come and say sales feels slimy or gross or weird, but when you do it from this mindset shift that you just talked about, well, it just feels like a natural extension of the conversation, because you already have the foundation of a relationship there, and you don't have to do all these weird things that people are doing. Well, I think almost, I mean, I equate this type of selling to a book that I read a long time ago called the Nordstrom way. It's a, I mean, Nord streams is a company that I think all of us are at least a little familiar with. But if you go to Nordstroms Even today, when they when you walk in, like, oh, you need a pair of shoes, they're trained to not just be like, well, we have the What's your size, well, what do you want? Because that's what you get at Foot Locker, right? What's your size? What do you want? Tell us what you want and come back. That's not really helpful to the customer, because most of the time, we don't know what we want. We think we know I want sneakers. That's why I'm a Foot Locker at Nordstrom, they're trained to say, well, what's the occasion? Tell me more about that. Oh, because maybe they need more than shoes. It's a department store, right? And so also in the shoe department, they get commission. Ah, my sister worked for them for a little while, while she was in college. And so, I mean, I know this to be current, but also from the book that I read. And so how do we how can we use that? In our own processes. Oh, I need you. Okay, tell me what it's for. Oh, I have a launch coming up. Okay, when's the launch next week not going to happen? Maybe your next launch. When's that going to happen? You know what I mean, like, I don't want to work in an emergency scenario. So if they need all their lunch covid in a week. A, it's going to be a rush fee. B, I might not have time. C, I don't know if I want to do it anyway. If I had a dime for everyone who came to me saying they need all their lunch covid done tomorrow, right? Exactly. So this applies to everybody, no matter what they're doing. I'm just using you as an example. I know one of your many talents, yeah, yeah. And I think another great thing about what you're saying about asking these questions as part of the sales process, so you can actually serve them. What you know is actually going to benefit them. From a copywriter perspective, I'm thinking, and you're also getting great language to then use back in your copy. If this then becomes a sales page or an emails or just in, like, whatever you're putting out there, then you know exactly what kind of what you need to say in your copy. 100 1,000,010% yes, yes, 100% so I feel like there's gonna be a lot of people who are like, I totally agree with this. Like, theoretically, I know. And yet it can feel so hard to do, because I feel like what sticks in our head is, like, the bad examples of, like, selling done awfully, or like, you know, the sales people who get sneak in your DMS and you're like, really? So how, what am I saying here? I feel like I want a tangible visual of like, what does this look like? Or, I guess what I'm really asking is, what is one of the most common mistakes that you see entrepreneurs making when it comes to selling their own services, coaching programs, offers? Yes. Great question number one, we assume the customer knows what they're saying and what they mean if they say, I need help with my sales process, a picture comes into my head. I would bet my bottom dollar it's different than the picture in their head, even though they're using words that I use, even though they're even using words that are on my website and my sales pages and proven to be understood mutually. But if you say potato, same thing goes with that potato. You have a picture in your head, right? It might be different than the one I'm picturing, and it's just a potato. So we can get off, pay off, off base with the word potato or refrigerator. You know, these like innocuous words, right? Differences in our mind of when you say that one word, the picture that comes up, chances are it's not the same. So if it is great, let's validate that. Let's confirm that. So by asking more questions, we're able to confirm that it is the same picture or it isn't, and then I can go in a different direction. So what I typically encourage people to say, when they hear someone say, I need help with my sales process, or whatever they've said exactly that feels like that's what I do. I know that one hold on is to say, tell me more about what you have in mind. Tell me more about the timeline you'd like this to be done in. Have you hired someone for this before? So what else have you tried? What else are you what are you doing right now to make that a possibility, because those are going to be very, very important questions, and actually give you a full picture, and then you can say, well, let's say you were to hire me for that. How much do you think I charge? Or how much do you think that would cost, even if it weren't me? I mean, have you looked on Fiverr? Have you looked at Upwork? Have you looked Have you looked around? That'd be important to know, because what I'm trying to find out is not only what they need and the picture they have in their head and the timeline they're timeline they're looking for it and the price they're looking to buy it for, but I'm also trying to figure out what they value, because if they think that writing an email is$100 an email, they might not be my customer. I don't know, right? If they only value it for that, maybe they maybe they need to have a different mindset. But I can't be like, what's your mindset on? Your mindset on this? Because they're not going to be able to explain themselves. How do you put that in words? Yeah, people stink at words, right? Like you don't, but a lot of people do, and when it's us, we also lose our words. I feel like, if you're asking me, I don't know my name. Now wait a minute. Hold on. Let me look at my license so it just what I'm getting at is the most common problems are when someone says the words that we're saying out loud, we assume that they're thinking about the same thing we're thinking about, and miscommunication starts from the beginning, and then we make offers that don't get accepted, and we think we suck. Our offer sucks, that person sucks, somebody sucks, something sucks. This is horrible, and in reality, it was just miscommunication. So if I ask those questions in advance, before I make a proposal, I either can choose not to make one or make one that actually hits home, because now I actually confirm. Confirmed the picture they have in their head, and I'm just repeating it back to them, clarifying, validating. And then they're like, Well, yeah, that's exactly what I needed. You're like, I know we'll start tomorrow. It makes you look like such a genius. Exactly one really simple thing that anyone can do, anyone can do, and it's really just asking deep questions and then listening, are you taking notes? Here is everyone taking notes? She just gave you the literal, like questions to ask. Yeah, I'm writing those down. Okay, this goes for anything I mean. I've been teaching this and doing this for myself since before the internet. So as long as you're selling to humans, this will work, these very these questions, these strategies, this mindset, this applies in any market condition, yes, yes. And it makes that other person feel so known and seen and, like, actually truly heard. You're not just trying to, like, shove an offer onto their plate when it may or may not be the right one. Now you know what is best going to serve them. And like you said, if you don't have an offer that's going to serve them, you have a network of people that you can refer them to, or a free resource, or whatever else it might be correct. One thing I encourage women to think about when they're and in that role is imagine yourself with a white coat on, and you're the doctor. I think we've all been to the doctor. We were there for ourselves, our children, our parents, where maybe something was up and we weren't sure what it was, and we've been to maybe multiple doctors to try to figure that thing out, and it was the doctor that finally took the time to listen. Ask more questions, keep listening, take notes, maybe do more tests that didn't rush into Oh, I know what that is. Here's your prescription. Goodbye, right? Well, it didn't work last time. Why it would work again? No, no, it's gonna work this time. You know? I mean, like, the person who was like, flippant and rushes and tries to know, because there's think they think they're supposed to know that person's not helping anybody but the person who the doctor, in this case, who took the time and listened and repeated back and confirmed and validated before they made any protocols or prescriptions, those are the ones we like that goes the same same energy for us when we're in that role. That's such a great analogy. That is perfect. Because I've been to sales trainings where it was a little more like, Bro aggressive. And it was just like, get them on the phone, close them as quickly as you can. Take a deposit, get, like, get the money in the bank. And it was just like, whoa, whoa, whoa. But like, can we do how do we do this with integrity? How do we do this with heart? How do we do this in a way where, like, it is actually gonna serve them? Because if it serves them, then it's also gonna serve me, and if it doesn't serve them, or they're not the right client, then it's like you're just setting yourself up for all the red flags, all the red flags. So what you just described was exactly the same kind of sales training I received when I was a salesperson. Initially, back before the internet, from the company that I worked for, because that is the way sales people are taught to sell. But who delivers the program that the salesperson sold? In this case, we're both we are selling and delivering it. So even if I because you can, I can teach you how to do it, close them on the phone, get their cash now, even if they are giving you objections over and over and overturn. But then you got somebody who's resistant, and probably isn't going to be that easy to work with, and it's going to be a real beast of burden, you know, Megan Albatross, trying to get them to the finish line so that you can finish the project right, finish the work together, or at least move forward. So it's not worth it to do it that way. If we're selling for our own services that we have to deliver, it's not, well, it's not, it's not really, you know, it's not awesome to do it that way, even if you're not delivering it. But not saying it won't work, what I'm saying is, if it works, then what? Yeah, if you are concerned about retention and longevity in your business, correct, yeah, correct. And I never met any but any woman online that's like, you know what? I want to be hardcore closer. I can teach you to do that. I know how to but I don't feel integ, in integrity with it. And, you know, I never did, but I was trying to do my job and hit my job and hit my commissions. But also we weren't selling services that I had to deliver, or even services that would be delivered like this. You know, they weren't expert services back in the day, you know, we were selling telecom. It's pretty much going to work regardless, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is more like, let's play the long game in business, because that is what is going to sustain you? That is what feels sustainable that goes at a pace that you know you're not going to run around with a what is it chicken, with your head cut off, and let's not do that. Who is that? So that's not serving yourself. That's not serving anyone, correct? Because nothing. There's the three letters I like best are lifetime customer value, l. CV, do it this way, from the beginning, you're going to see more opportunities to serve them, and then they'll be more receptive to those to be able to allow you to keep writing for them, or allow you to keep helping them with the different sales processes. For me, there's always a new offer somebody wants or a new launch they want to have great well, I can keep working with them on that. And same thing with you. It's not like you write it and it's done forever, because their offers evolve, their business evolves, their messaging evolves, and you can help them with that ongoing. Yeah, there's always more, there's always more, there's always more. Perfect. And if we want more of Renee rebar, where can people connect with you? Thank you for asking. The best place is my website, which is just Renee rebar.com, that is where you will be invited ever so many times to enter my email list. Because honestly, not only do I give you so many cool, fun, free stuff, but I also the cool thing about my email list is, if you get any email from me and you hit reply, you can ask me anything. Take her up. Take her up on that. Take her up on that. And we are also going to link in the show notes for our listeners to grab Rene's free sales mini course how to get five qualified prospects on the phone this week. So make sure to check the show notes for that as well. Thank you for tuning in to the copywriting for coaches podcast. If you've been enjoying these episodes, let me know that you're listening and what you love about it by clicking on the copywriting for coaches show in Apple podcasts and leaving me a review. Be sure to subscribe while you're there, so it's easy to catch new episodes every week if you want digital resources to finish that copy project you've been working on, the links are all waiting for you at copywriting for coaches podcast.com you.