Case Study: The AI Copywriting System That Worked While She Vacationed

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Transcript

Today, I am sitting down with Allison Jordan, the founder of Better Belly Therapies. Allison is a gut health expert who helps people move away from the guesswork and uncertainty so they can. Experience real change, more energy, less pain, and a happier, freer life. You might remember her from one of our most downloaded episodes called Natural Energy Boosts for Better Focus. If you haven't listened to that one yet, it is linked in the show notes, and I highly recommend it. It's a good one. But in this conversation, we're changing things up. We are actually pulling back the curtain on her experience as a client of mine. How we took her top 1% global podcast, her story, and her heart for what she does, and turned that into a content system that actually converts without needing a copywriter on retainer. This is such an important conversation because I know so many of you listeners are going to see yourself in Allison's story. So let's rewind to the beginning. Allison, give us some context of what season of business you were in before we started working together, and how you were feeling about your copywriting and marketing at that time. Sure. So we are...

11:00 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 We a multi-six-figure business, and I have built most of it on a podcast, which has evergreen content. It's done really, really well. I really like the rhythms of it for my business, but we have been wanting to push into our organic marketing a lot more. And I had just created a system where we were going to be, for every podcast episode that came out, creating a blog and a full blog, not just using intros from the podcast episode, which is kind of what we've been doing before, and then creating things like Pinterest graphics. So, we were already pushing into our organic marketing to take what I was already creating and get it into more searchable places. And I knew I wanted, and I know I've wanted, I've known that I want to get more into Instagram and social media without it burning me out. That is like what everybody talks about. That is how I felt. I have definitely done Instagram, like daily posting. For seasons, but did not love my life, did not like too much stress. And I know people out there like Instagram experts or whatever, but what I was like, okay, one thing I'm already creating is my podcast and content repurposing is the king of content. So how can I content repurpose podcast episodes without needing to hire like a very, in my mind, like either expensive or like very niche person who understands my podcast episode? How do they, how can we shorten the time? Even if, even if I do get a really high expert, big expert to do it, that they don't have to listen to the whole thing, that they can really just understand some of the juiciest things we're sharing in there that is not being shared in blog posts. Because what we can't, what, what I was struggling with was that AI keeps pulling all these ridiculousness. When I say, we're going to talk about gut health, mean, give it a transcript. transcript. If you even expect. And it just starts pulling stuff out of its butt. That was like, I did not say that. That is not in that episode. That's actually the opposite of what I stand for and what we shared in that episode. And so I just had developed a lot of mistrust around AI and its ability to, which honestly made me feel like I had job security. Like, okay, AI still isn't saying the same stuff I'm saying. Like, it still has no idea how to actually feel people's guts. At the same time, it's making it hard for me to create content with it, a content repurpose. And so I was vaguely aware that I felt like AI was the door to helping us, me basically have my VA, like I have a VA who does my podcast setting, who does our Pinterest and our blog with AI. The AI can figure out the blog portion, but we're just like, how do we create a carousel? How do we create a story? How do we create, you know, a real, like, how do we get this down? And it just felt like this huge wall. that I could envision what I wanted to happen, but I didn't know all the steps to make both the AI behave and also like what to tell it to spit out content that seemed like just as good as the podcast episode that was powerful in its own right, but also like converting so that it would take them wherever we wanted them to go. So that was where we were at, big content, organic marketing push, and kind of hitting a wall of like, I don't know how to, I don't know how to make this happen with Instagram.

14:34 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. And I know so many of the listeners, I hear that all the time is like, I don't want to post daily or getting tired of, like you said, like it could be fun for a season. And for some people, like Instagram is fun for them. They love showing up on stories. And like, great, like if that's you, you do you. But I know so many people are just like, I just don't have the capacity that, you know, the season of life to to sustain that and we want to Do what's sustainable in our marketing. I love that you have just an eye for, like, I want to create in more searchable places. And one of my big things is I want people to start thinking that way, that you are already thinking. Like, Pinterest is a search engine. Apple Podcasts is a search engine. Obviously, Google is a search engine. AI is a search engine to some extent. We can, you know, write our blog posts in such a way that it is easier for AI to crawl. So, yeah, that's great. So, you were already pushing into that organic direction. And then it was just like, how do we, I know AI is powerful, but how do we harness it so that it actually, like you said, behaves? And what, what made you realize, like, you know, like, okay, I know that this is powerful, but how do I create it? What was the, I guess, turning point that made you realize, okay, I need to bring in support for this?

15:55 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 All I remember, the main thing I remember is I was talking with my business coach, who who you've actually worked with, and we all know each other, and she and I were brainstorming how I was going to accomplish this thing, and she's like, I think you should talk to Megan, and you and I had literally just had this conversation over lunch about you being like a content strategist, or what was the, yes, okay, awesome, and you were describing it, I was like, yes, this makes so much sense, but I literally hadn't put two and two together that you could solve this problem that I had, because I'd never seen a copywriter sell this type of offering before, of basically, I saw a copywriter sell, I can, every month, pay me every month, and I will write the content for you, and that's kind of what I was trying to avoid, I was like, I would love my team to be able to do that, that I currently have, because I think that if there's AI involved, as long as you have a good trained AI, and you have good prompts, and understanding of how to get stuff out, you're gonna get close enough, and you can train team members, and so, So I was like, wait a minute, what if, you know, so I brought it to you. And I don't even think I had a clear idea of what I wanted. I just was like, my business coach said I should talk to you. And I agree with her, but I don't know how you're going to solve my problem. And you were like, oh, I've never done this before. But like, what if I created your entire SOP of like with the chat GVD prompts, with some of the brand development, and you like even pieced together some stuff like I didn't have a good brand voice document. So you that was like another thing we added on of like, let's have you create that that was like a separate thing part of like the bundle, but it helped us get to this point where we could basically train a like know that we could give this to somebody else, and it would be the same outcome. That's kind of what I want. And that's honestly, almost how I approach even my own business of like, I want to have reproducible processes that when someone comes in to get work with me, they have similar experiences. of quality, they get similar outcomes of quality. And I'm like, I felt like AI was going to do that. And so you helped us bridge that gap. And then you put this together, this offer that I was like, why doesn't this exist? Everybody should know about this. And it's such a win for business owners who maybe feel that they could make that leap. It's a good like middle ground for them to like not have a full on copy retainer, but to still be using copy savvy and use someone who is a copy expert to build that savvy into their, into their company. Yeah, yeah.

18:38 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 Like you said, I think it's a great, like, it's almost like a hybrid offer because copywriters are like, I will do it for you on retainer. And there's definitely a time and a place for that. And I have clients where I like, I really don't use AI at all. Like, it's really just me doing my copywriting thing for them in their voice. Um, and then there's people who you see, like they use chat tpt to di. help DIY their own copywriting and marketing. And some can do it well, to some extent. Others, it's like, we can tell that is just GPT.

19:10 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

19:13 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 And so this is kind of a cool middle ground that blends the two of like, you really get my copywriting brain and processes. Because like, when I'm working with a client on retainer, I'm still creating processes, just even for myself, just because that's how I think, that's how I operate. that's like you said, keep everything reproducible, consistent, from week to week, from month to month. And like, dang, if I'm doing these anyways, and people want to use AI, people are at a point, like, we're just at a stage, I think, in business in general, people want to use AI, it's a new, it's exciting. It's powerful, it's not going anywhere, it's worth, you know, a worthwhile skill to invest in learning in. And yet, I'm like, still seeing so many people like, it really, like, that's just That's a big pet peeve for me, I realize, is like, I hate seeing ChatGPT copy, like, where we can just so clearly tell. And, you know, it's a losing battle to try and convince people that, like, you should just learn the skill of copywriting. You know, people would prefer to just learn the skill of AI, which I would like to do AI well as your junior copywriter. Like, you still need to understand copywriting to something different.

20:26 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 Right. And we discussed that. I mean, you came up with a really beautiful process where, and maybe you'll change it or find something new. Hopefully your listener, I don't know, not trying to pin you down, but, like, you, I just thought you were going to create an S&P and hand it to us, but you're like, well, for me to really make sure that S&P is good, et cetera, the first month I'm going to do it for you. And you're going to give me feedback on what I create. And that was, like, so eye-opening of, like, you would send me the copy that ChatGPT came out. I'm like, why do I hate this so bad? So horrible. And we were able to really fine-tune. Stuff that I, some of it, like, I literally didn't even know. One of it was how your understanding of custom GPTs, which I know that they exist, but that when you're using ChatGPT with OpenAI, it sources from anywhere on the internet. And even when you told it to not source, it still did it. And so you're like, what if we just created a custom GPT with some of your brand documents? like, done. I literally, you offered to do it for me, but I was, like, pretty sure I knew what I wanted to do. And I was like, I wanted to try it out myself to see if I could learn it. So I sent you it. And it works. It was immediately better. It was, like, the same prompts, the same whatever, and that you had done with just basic ChatGPT. But when our custom GPT with our brand voice documents uploaded and some directions given, it just behaved infinitely better. And so that was, like, something that I was, like, okay, I could have, I would have just wrestled with this thing for the rest of my life and given up on it. So it was really nice that it felt like. It was such a fast solution. And then I had someone like a real human there to help me quickly figure out like, why is this prompt so bad? And then I felt so much hope of like, okay, I'm like, this is possible. We don't have to be stuck in content repurposing hell where it takes too much time or it's just crappily done by AI or by someone who doesn't know how to copyright. Like it's, it's really high quality, or like the possibility for it to become high quality is so was so encouraging. And so you did that process where the first month you did it with us, and created the copy. And that's where we really fine tuned a lot of the prompts and like, oh, this is what we need. The second month, I think you did it again, but then maybe, but by the end, by the third month, you had handed it over to my VA to have her practice it. And you gave her feedback and she made some edits. And so I feel like I'm now seeing content being repurposed onto my Instagram that I'm interacting with my VA 0% with because to me, and I'm having to accept this as a business owner, a lot of times we're looking for perfection, which I think a copywriter can get you to perfection, right? But I'm also happy with 80% because that is still, it's getting views, it's getting, it's refining our process. And right now, we actually are, like, now that we've implemented the system, I'm doing bi-weekly reviews with my VA to say, I'm just going to go in, we're going to look at everything she's creating, the Pinterest, the blog, the Instagram graphics, the hook, the caption, the graphic, everything. And I'm giving feedback to try and help bridge that gap, bridge that gap of, is it something in the prompt, does something in the prompt need to be changed to get better outputs to something about how she humanly edits the, you know, the stuff get us to what I want. The content to look like, but you just helped us get over that. I mean, that's, to me, I expect that a company is always going to make making iterations and improvements, right? Like, I'm not, like, that would be unrealistic to be like, and then I never touched it again.

24:15 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 Yeah, that means you're not growing, you're not evolving, like, yeah, you to be doing that. So, of course, it's going to be a living thing. Yeah. Right.

24:22 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 So, we realized we had, like, in a recent content review, I realized that my VA didn't understand one part of stuff, and she had stopped doing one component of it, and it was yielding poor output of the copy. But it was like, but it was right there in the SOP. And we're like, okay, let's bring it back, and it's putting out better content again. So, just really excited for this. And again, I'm like, I don't know anybody else who does this. I was like, I was like, please put me on your podcast. I need, I want other business owners who are in a similar stage as me or with similar goals or desires for their team to know that. Like, and I think even just to give you so much credit that you have done such a good job envisioning the offer and being very strategic. I think that is, I've worked with several other copywriters, and that's something like you have this interesting like high level, like you hear what someone's wanting, and you can execute it with a really high amount of like clarity of the steps who you need, even if that person wasn't imagining those steps were going to be needed. And then even like what's missing, like, oh, do you have this thing or that thing? Here's how I can do it for you. And even like following up, you've given us an idea, like several ideas of how other things you could create for us that improve our systems. I just feel like that's such a beautiful blend that copy and systems is like so powerful because it is words drive companies, they drive sales, they drive conversion, they drive deliverables. So, and so happy.

25:57 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 Yay, I love the way you worded that. Like, this is, This is great. I could not have said it better myself. It's like one of those things that you need someone to reflect back to you of like, I know this is what I do. But yeah, to hear someone who has recently experienced that is really cool to like, yes, that is that is it. You captured it so well. So thank you for that. One thing I noted when you were talking is like how much time you're spending on like, I mean, I feel like during the process. After we like committed to doing this project, I'm like, I could go back and look at your loom videos of feedback, but like, I don't know, maybe an hour, hour and a half total, like you spent giving me feedback over three months, like it really took so little of your time, because you're already producing the podcast anyways. So it was like, you know, maybe 90 minutes, two hours over a couple months of your time to have this process totally done. And then now you're spending, you said biweekly content review. So for you to spend like 30 minutes to an hour every two weeks on content, like that's insane.

27:09 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 This is actually how crazy it's gotten. I went on a three-week vacation as a stress test for my company, and I batched all the content for the podcast, and I got everything content repurposed. All I had to do was create the podcast episode with our podcast SOP that hasn't been existing for several years. Because, I mean, that's our main platform. We've mastered it. It's just, it's a science, not an art. And I podcast batch that, but then we have all these subtasks that are like, okay, once the episode's out, then, you know, reproduce into Pinterest graphics, reproduce into blog posts, reproduce into Instagram. And so I'm literally on vacation, and like in my Instagram, and I'm seeing a post, a carousel, a reel go out from all those episodes, and I never interacted with it. I never touched it. I never had to give any guidance. Yeah, are there things I need to tweak? Sure. like done is better than perfect and not out there. Yeah, never going to happen. And I'm seeing views and I'm seeing people commenting EPA, EP271, and our podcast downloads are increasing without us having to, you know, do anything different or extra or more episodes or anything like that. So we switched now to a, I switched now to a once a month podcast batching method. And then I'm not touching content the rest of the month. That's like this week. I'm, I'm, I'm, it's my first week off where I'm not, well, I'm still working, but I'm not touching the podcast in our ClickUp. I'm not touching anything anywhere. And content is going out and being published. And it feels, it feels very like it's only up from here of like, yeah, there's still things to improve and whatnot, but it's, it's going to be very good. Wow.

28:59 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 Yeah, that's, I feel like the idea. deal that so many people have on their vision board that they aspire to that they aren't even sure is possible for them because content just, I feel like so many people are a slave to content or like they don't batch. So they're like scramble posting every day or even just batching a week ahead and feeling like it's scramble. But how little time you spend on it now because we've gotten your content systems in place is really incredible to see and the fact that the three week stress test of like you being on vacation and just like seeing it happen and your downloads increase and like you're chilling there with your family.

29:42 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was really, it's, it's been amazing. And so I mean, it's definitely a process to get every piece in place. Like you can't say that. Like there's, there's easy buttons in some ways of like working with the right people like you, but it, you know, takes some intentionality. can't put every piece in place at once. Podcast system. This was all easier because I had a really faithful system for podcasting, but I mean, think take whatever you're good at. Like if you've been doing a lot of email marketing, which is like another business owner that I love, Kirsten Roldan, and I'm in her coaching program, like she actually does her content repurposing from email. So if you've been doing email faithfully, repurpose from email. Like if you've been doing Instagram faithfully, repurpose from Instagram and move it to podcasting or something. And I think you have that know-how of like how you could take that content and then transfer it. And like, like you could, like the option, the possibilities are so exciting that you now have these prompts that you could create to create, move information from any format it's already being made into, into that new format you're trying to reach or move into. And so, um, I mean, it's very exciting. Yeah, totally.

30:56 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 I love that you called it. Like, I don't know, like it's an easy button. And I feel like so many people want AI to be their easy button, but if you're just giving it like a couple sentences of a prompt, like it's not going to spit out for you the output that you actually need it to give you. And like when we created like your custom GPT, like the messaging brand guide I created for you is like 80 pages, like it is very in-depth. So like that is what we're feeding it along with like your RSS feed, your emails, like all of the things. So much more goes into it than I think people expect or realize. And if you're like still on the free version of ChatGPT, like I just wouldn't, it is a great tool, but I would not use the free version of ChatGPT as your junior copywriter. And then the paid version where you can create these custom ones and give it instructions and a knowledge base and all of these things, like for $20 a month to be able to create and train your junior copy, like absolutely, you know, you can't upgrade someone.

31:56 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 Yeah, your basic VA to like, and I don't know, not everyone's VA, VA's. And have a wide range of capabilities, but like you just take whatever level your VA is at and you just like put it on hyperspeed, like with a really good system or like good custom GPT or a good SOP. Even like we do have and like I still do some cross-referencing and we're figuring out what's the difference between what our custom GPT makes and like if we go into our podcast project folder where it is really getting to know our brand voice and it can make an intro for my podcast pretty good. It sounds very similar to me because it knows how I like to make intros for the podcast. And so we're playing around with like what do we get better content in one versus the other. But ultimately like we are definitely seeing better results most of the time in the custom GPT and but just you definitely don't want to be on the free version because you can't even get those projects like where it like has all the memory and it keeps all these. Thank Documents of how you like to do things. And, yeah, I mean, it's very interesting, for sure. Yeah, yeah.

33:12 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 Like, AI can be the easy button, but only once you give it all of this foundational stuff, which is not easy to set it up. Like, it took us three months of working together to really get it to a point where, you know, like you said, it can get it 80-90% of the way done. Then it can become the easy button for you. But I think a lot of people don't realize how much it really takes to train it to be your junior copywriter.

33:36 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 One of the things I really liked about working with you was that I felt like when it really took up a big mental load of when I was seeing what you'd created, and I'm like, well, this is not great. And I literally remember giving you some feedback, and it doesn't mean you're dumb. You actually told me I intentionally didn't edit this. Like, I need you to see it without what you're going to get. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, I get it. And so it's cool because I could tell you, not AI, could tell you what I didn't like. And you're like, okay, let me change the prompt. Sometimes when I'm working with AI, I have a sense of, oh, I know why I got that outcome. This is how I need to change the prompt. But with what we were doing, I was enough outside of my element that I just felt like I was like, I don't even know what I would tell it about why this is so crappy, or like how to get it to never do this again. And so it was really nice that I could send you those Voxers or a Loom video and say, well, this is what's weird. And then I didn't have to do any mental labor to translate into that what to say to AI. So it was, it made it so much more approachable as a business owner who's still learning this area. And even feeling like the ways we interacted was really taught me a lot. And so, or like what you were teaching me made me better at understanding it. So video. Yeah, mean, just, yeah, hands down, not, like, I had to be intentional about my time, and this is a focus of the project, but it was not overarchingly, like, a huge amount of my time, which was the whole point. I didn't want to have to add on all this additional social media marketing on top of everything else we already did.

35:21 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 Yeah, yeah, your time is already, already at capacity. Yeah, that's great to hear, because I think, yeah, the mental labor, don't realize how much mental capacity content takes up in our brains until it's off your plate, and you're like, oh. And I think until you know what's wrong here, and you figure out how to figure it then I will say, like, this is my literal full-time job, so it should not, like, you, like, it should not also be your full-time job on top of serving your clients and running your business and trying to have a life and all of the things. And I think through our conversations and our back and forth of, through taking that mental labor off of you, it made me realize, I was like, I think you have, like, an average to above average knowledge of. ChatGPT and AI in general. And it made me realize, I was like, oh, wow, I actually know a lot more about this than I thought I did. Like, I'm just interested in it. And part of, like, my hand was forced a little bit as a copywriter. Like, we have to pivot and grow with this. This is, you know, the future. But it was, yeah, good to help me realize, like, actually, I know way more about this than I thought I did. Um, and being able to, like, very quickly and easily, like, answer questions or, like, oh, it's working. It's, like, prompting that or giving us this output because of this. Or, like, this is how, like, it's probably pulling from Wikipedia is, like, how it defaults. And we do not want it to do that. Um, so that was, that was cool to see as well.

36:47 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 Yeah. Other things that you did are really interesting or, like, again, that I feel like was just, like, a beautiful, like, it, it really, like, stitched the whole process together. Other things that you didn't, didn't just create the prompts. You wrote, like, an SOP with numbers. And, like. You helped with our ManyChat. And some of it was really simple parts of SOPs, copy this thing in Canva or whatever. We still had to provide you graphics and tell you what you wanted, what I overall wanted. But it just gave me a framework very quickly that we could then go and edit. But it was our beginner spot. We're starting here. We're going to use it. And just, I love that you were willing to go in and tackle ManyChat and all these different components and make that connect from copy to operations and then be able to pass it on to somebody else. Just such a unique offer again.

37:40 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 Yeah, because I think most, a lot of copywriters at least are like, I am a sales page copywriter. I am a website and SEO copywriter. I am an email marketer. And we're told we have to niche down into this one type of copywriting. But I've always resisted that because I think as to your point, there's so much power in having someone else who It's not you, the business owner or founder, seeing your marketing process from beginning to end and seeing the full scope of it. And it's like what we did in this project together, it was like you would need like a processes person, a social media person for many, a copywriter, a content writer, someone who's like familiar with podcasts, like a podcast man. like, so it was like so many hats all together to make this work seamlessly into one thing that now an assistant can handle because all of that heavy thinking, that mental labor has been done and thought through and now you can just follow the steps and do it.

38:42 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 Yeah. Yes. Yes, exactly. And that's, that's, that's what a safe business can run on. You don't have to worry about if this person leaves my business, who's going to take over? And I'm like, the SFP is there, if they need to leave, if they get sick, if whatever, like we just import the next person and there's maybe a little bit of learning curve, but we're, we're like. At as good as our baseline, which is that kind of like AI, whatever AI is going to put out. And so I feel like my company is more stable. We've added an asset to our company. And in some ways, it feels like, I mean, it's sort of like a VIP day. did take three months, but it has this like very practical outcome. Now we're like, okay, I have to buy this every month. And there are things that, like, depending on your company and goals, sure, buying a retainer, copywriter every month might just be the best. But I hope that this is something that many people can get on board with and that you can serve so many people because you're so skilled at it, at taking, like, where are you at, what, and then, and how can we create a system to pull that copy into elsewhere? A content repurposing system. Yes, yes, exactly.

39:53 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 And so for you, was podcast was like your pillar that we were pulling from. But I mean, like you were saying, like, if podcasting isn't your. Speaking to the listeners here, if YouTube is your thing or if Instagram is your thing or whatever your thing is, wherever you are putting out content regularly, we can create a repurposing system from that. I've done this for someone who was like, Instagram was actually their thing. They enjoy it. They like showing up. That's their thing. And we were able to take that short form and then actually expand on it and get them, you know, those SEO keywords and make it more searchable and extend the life of the content that they are creating on Instagram by putting it on a blog and whatever else and email marketing so it'll be seen by more people. So, yeah. So, I think podcast is like an easy example or it's an example in this case, but it's not the only case of like where we could do something like this.

40:53 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 Right.

40:55 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 All right. So, what would you say to someone who is considering working with a copywriter or something you Tell your past self before you started this process. Hmm.

41:11 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 You told me this question before we started, and I immediately was like, I feel like this advice only works if we're talking about specific copywriters. It's not any copywriter. I'm sorry. I've already said I've worked with multiple copywriters, and there have just been times where I'm like, you're just a wordsmith, and you worked really hard to understand me. Your earnestness was there, but it wasn't getting me something that I feel like I'm excited to keep using or go back to. You're almost like you keep needing to, like, go back to that. And I guess maybe some of this, I'm a self-sufficiency girl. So it's like, think about who you're partnering with for your copywriter. Like, you want someone who's not just empathetic and making lots of sales. I mean, it kind of just depends on, again, are you thinking you're going to have this copywriter? Like, where are you at in your business? Are you wanting your copywriter to be? on your monthly team, or is it, if not, this has just felt like the most high-value thing a copywriter's ever done for me. And we just got to be honest, it's not just copywriting skills. It was so many other skills wrapped up into one experience on top of your ability to formulate an offer and execute it and do the interactions in terms of getting feedback, etc. And so, that is, like, got to consider who you're partnering with. It's not just, you know, any copywriter. So, to me, the advice would be, before you start working with a copywriter, can that copywriter help you hit your goals? Like, what is something you deeply want? Like, and maybe you're listening to this, if you're resonating with, I like to be self-sufficient. I'd like to have my systems and processes inside of my company and not just as soon as that copywriter stops working or I can't afford them. Or my budget goes down and I can't, like, either they get more expensive or I, you know, we go through seasons of business where, like, if you cut your copywriter, does that mean you now have to cut your organic marketing? Like, there's a lot of liability involved. And I'm sorry, like, I know, like, you do have a retainer. So, like, again, that is an option. But if that feels also like a liability at this current point in your business, like, for me, then just partner with the right copywriter, aka, like, work with Megan. Because you're listening to this podcast episode, and she can create an asset for you. Yeah, it's going to cost money, but it's going to keep working for you. Just like, I don't know if anybody else likes wealth building out there, you buy a home. Yes, you have to pay a mortgage or you maybe let's say you could pay a down payment once it's really high, but now you can rent it out and make money every month. Like, that's literally what you just did. There's so much value to that. So, like, think differently about copywriting. It's not, it doesn't have to be. Just like paying for your gas to make your car run. It can also be an asset that you buy. And maybe that's been the difference for like somebody to buy, get copywriters is like, I really want to see an asset that grows with my company and sticks around. And I now know, like, you did such a great job of giving us some ideas of other projects you could do. And like, you are going to become a really good go to person for us of like, oh, I really need this type of project to be done. There's some copy involved. There's some systems involved. I wonder if Megan can help us bridge that gap quickly and, and get it online. So we're not kind of it's not trailing behind us haunting us endlessly. So that becomes like a superpower where you could be the like, like C suite level, like person we can call on a fractional copywriter. What is that? Yeah, it can be a thing now. And I think that's just a really different mindset. And you can't expect that from any copywriter, not because other people are dumb, but like maybe they haven't conceived of it or they, I can't, I wouldn't know who else to point you to. So think about who you're working with and figure out what's been holding you back from copywriting. I knew what was holding me back, which was that monthly payment that I felt like I couldn't, it felt, it's not that I, that it's ultimately not worth it, but it felt like a liability of I don't own that process. And you have helped bridge that gap.

45:38 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 Yeah, that's a beautiful way to put it. And you're right, like not all copywriters are created equal. We all have different strengths, different values, different experiences, different things that we do. Like some are really just words people, some are more strategy people. And then like you said, I kind of combine a lot of different things together. And like, I don't know, I know. In the entrepreneurial space, it's like, are you a visionary, or are you an executor? I'm like, I'm really kind of both. And for so long, I felt like I had to choose. And then this and like these other experiences are making me realize like, no, like that is part of my superpower is like, I understand and I can help you envision and like see your vision and hold that with you. And I can also get into the tangible nitty gritty details and execute it to to that level to actually equal your your vision and free up all that time. And all of that. And I actually have one of my earliest episodes, I'll link it in the show notes is 11 questions to ask before you hire a copywriter. Because so many people ask like, Oh, can I see your portfolio? And that's actually not always the best question to ask. Because like, when I'm writing for somebody, I'm not, like, my voice doesn't matter, because I'm not writing in my voice, I'm writing in your voice, you know. So anyways, I'll link that in because that's a great, like, whether you work with me or someone else. But like, do your due diligence and know like, that you have the same values, that they have the skill set that can actually accomplish what you want to accomplish. And I actually just had a discovery call where they were like, I know I need something, I actually don't know what I need. And like, let's just have a conversation about that, and get clear on that before we move forward. Megan, I just thought of a metaphor.

47:26 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 I don't know how this will hit with your audience. But so like, I actually just thought of like, how most copywriters function, it would be or like, how the most common functioning of it is like, how CPAs submit your taxes. It's just like, you got to do it every year, you pay your CPA, it's the same thing. And they crunch the numbers, and they push it together. And then they send to the IRS, and the IRS is happy. A tax strategist knows about the numbers, but they help you pay as few dollars to the IRS as possible. CPA is just It's more like, just give me to me point blank. Tell me what your numbers are. That's like saying, tell me what your brand voice is. Like, tell me what your goals are. Where do you want me to post? How often? And then, like, pay us money and we'll do your tax return. So then saying, we're going to go through all the places you make money, all the places you spend money. We're going to look for all the places, all the strategies you don't even currently use that you could do to lower your taxes as much as possible. And then we'll follow your return. Like, that is, like, I'm working with a tax strategy company right now. I'm like, it's a totally different experience. It requires so much more thoroughness and intake and understanding of the client. And it gets you so much more returns than just, I followed my tax return and I'm not delinquent. Yeah. Yeah. said, I copy out. I'm not delinquent. But this is like, I own this process. I'm, I'm in control. And I have a, I have a partner with me in it who is helping me bridge. The gap of wanting to be able to control my taxes or my copy, but not really knowing how to.

49:08 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 Yeah, I love how empowering this has felt for you, that you now own this asset, that it's working great for you. It's increasing your downloads, which is your number one driver of traffic to your course. Yeah, I think that's, that's really cool for me to see, because I'm just like, yeah, this is just what I do every day. then to hear that, like, oh, actually, this is all the impact that it's having. I'm just like, just, just don't stop talking. Let me just cry happy tears over here.

49:39 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 I mean, I'll share one other thing I just remembered is we, we boost posts once a weekend. Our most, like, highest converting posts, meaning lots of follows, lots of comments, whatever, we boost one of them on a weekend. I've just found that that's actually been really effective. Side note on Instagram. And we, I've noticed that all of Now that we're getting all this content repurposing, people are visiting our page, and then they're just mass-like commenting on all these things that they're finding really interesting. So we're only boosting one post, and it might not even be the content we're repurposing, because maybe it doesn't have the highest amount of, like, as an individual post, it might not be the best performing. But collectively, they're seeing more of the business when they come to our page, and they're seeing all our podcast episodes. Because right now we're focusing on just episode eight, episode 276, episode 271, and people are just, like, collecting it, like, Pokemon or something, like, Tamagotchi, got to catch them all, or whatever it's, like, like, and that's, like, so it's just really rewarding to be, like, I'm only paying for one boosted content, but then they're just getting all this additional stuff because of us just repurposing, so.

50:50 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 Yeah, yeah, and then the ManyChat delivers it right to them. Yeah, perfect. yeah, and then, like you said, your downloads are already increasing, which makes sense based on what you're saying here. Yeah. Yeah, this is really cool to see like all of the ripple effect that has happened just from this one thing together. Is there anything else you want our listeners to know about the experience or I feel like we covered a lot?

51:15 - Allison Jordan (Better Belly Therapies | Livonia MI)

 Reach out to Megan. I feel like I don't want to lie in your podcast, but you have a discovery call or something, right? I think if you bring whatever brainchild you're trying to bring out into the world in terms of like content creation, if you're not even sure what she can do, just bring it to her. Where she can say is like, that's probably not my field or I don't know. I'm sure she wouldn't lie to you. And the most she's going to help you conceive of what you could, maybe it's not even anything we've talked about. That's been my experience of I think you have that ability to help bridge the gap. And it might. And you've even told me, like, I don't have a singular offer yet. And you might get there. Like, there might be some stuff you find. might be it. This is it. really want. But I'm like, wait, maybe that's because. And you actually have a very flexible mind and are able to really be like, okay, I don't already have that. Let me create an offer for that. And so it can't hurt. And at most, you're going to alleviate a pain point that you feel guilt and shame about in your company, like I should be content repurposing or whatever it is. And you'll alleviate that pain point if it works out. Yeah, that's perfect.

52:28 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)

 I couldn't agree more. And that's actually more common on discovery calls than you would think. I think a lot of people think they have to come with a plan and know exactly what they want and have it all together. And it's like, no, part of the reason why you're hiring me is because you know this isn't working, but you don't know why it's not working. And it's not your job to figure it out because you didn't start your business to become an expert marketer or an expert copywriter. Like you are an expert in what you do in your field. And so, like you said, bring me your brainchild. Bring me like, even if you think it's totally unrealistic, tell me what you want. And I think you would be so surprised at how So resourceful we can get to make it happen or make it happen in maybe a different way than you might expect, but still achieve that same goal or outcome. And if it's out of scope of beyond what I can do, I will tell you that. And I am well connected and I will refer you to someone else. But like Allison said, it's worth having the conversation because I have done so much behind the scenes of so many, you know, multi six and seven figure businesses. I've seen a lot. And because of that experience, it's very easy for me to very quickly see, you know, where that hole, where that gap is, how we can fix it from all of that experience. So awesome. Well, thank you for sharing your story and your experience. I know that hearing details from an actual client can be so helpful for other business owners who are sitting on that fence, wondering if it's worth it. So if you are listening and think, hey, can you do that for me? Actually, that sounds really great. I would love to. If just once a month on my content and have it done for me, you know, on like an hour per month of my time, you can see that this is absolutely, totally realistic for you. So I would encourage you to head over to my website at MeganKachigan.com. Link is also in the show notes. Or honestly, simply just shoot me a DM to start the conversation about what this could look like for you.