Book Out Clients Months Ahead with Jess Freeman

She's been booked out months in advance with a full client roster for 14 years in business. And she doesn't pay for ads or manage a large team.

I recently sat down with Jess Freeman, a web designer and SEO strategist and here's what she revealed about her marketing strategy that most service providers are missing:

Organic marketing isn't about finding the one "right" channel. Instead, it's about understanding which methods actually work for your business, and then doubling down on organic marketing strategies that compound over time.

In this episode, we dive into:

✓ Where her clients actually come from (and why it's different than you'd expect) 
✓ How SEO became her form of self-care marketing (you will love this!)
✓ Why being found on ChatGPT is becoming more important (and NOW is the time to capitalize on it!) 
✓ What Threads is best for as a business owner 
✓ The blogging rhythm that actually works without burnout 
✓ Why you should NOT use AI for keyword research (and what to do instead)

Let's dig into what’s actually working.

➡️ SHOW NOTES: Grab all the links and resources mentioned in this episode on the blog here! https://www.megankachigan.com/organic-marketing-strategy-jess-freeman

CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Join us at the Ordinary Business Summit on April 1-2, 2026. Jess and I will be speaking on a roundtable discussion about creating community as a business owner.

FREE RESOURCE: Copy not converting? Increase your conversion rate in 5-minutes a day when you join my free 5-day challenge “Why Isn’t This Converting?”

CONNECT WITH MEGAN:
Join My Inbox Community → www.megankachigan.com/email
Website → www.megankachigan.com
LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-kachigan-loehr-9957684b/
Threads → https://www.threads.net/@megankachigan

Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/megankachigan/

Join the Why Isn't This Converting?" Free 5-Day challenge to get more clients from your copy by clicking here!

Know exactly what to fix in your copywriting with this "Why Isn't This Converting?" Free 5-Day Challenge. You'll get bite-sized email prompts where you’ll apply one simple, high-impact fix in just minutes to make your content convert without having to re-write everything or constantly guess at what's going to work.

Transcript

Today I am joined by Jess Freeman, you may know her as Jess Creatives, where she helps experts build websites that actually match their expertise and get them found, trusted, and booked.  With over 14 years of experience in web design and SEO, Jess will be talking about what high-level founders are overlooking when it comes to SEO and website strategy, and we're going to get into how to use platforms like Threads as a business owner.  Jess is one of my favorite follows on Threads, so I'm so excited to dive into that. And we are approaching this conversation from an ordinary business perspective.  Jess has a summit and a podcast and a trademark by the same name. And the goal... The is really honest conversations with business owners who are making less than $300,000 per year and want to stay there.  Like, what does it actually look like to run a business that pays the bills, leaves room for family health hobbies, or just taking a nap on a Tuesday afternoon or taking Friday off?  How do we juggle client work and caregiving and navigating schedules and kids and creating success? Like, what does that really look like for you?  So, I will be honest, Ordinary Business is actually one of the very few podcasts that I still listen to these days.  I love the realness. So, Jess, welcome to the show. So excited to chat with you today.

10:38 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  Yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.

10:41 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  Okay, this is going to be good. And actually, so my first question for you, I was like, man, I don't know if I want this, like, blasphemy on my show.  You did a whole episode on your Ordinary Business podcast about how you get clients without using email marketing. And on here, we talk about, like, ah.  Email Marketing, like that is where the foundation, that is what you need. And I think there's so much nuance to this conversation, but you, and I think more people than we'd like to admit, actually do get clients without relying on email marketing.  Like, so it's actually a very normal experience, but the truth is that it really like depends on a number of factors.  So I don't know if you want to speak to that a little bit of kind of what you've tried and, and where, how, how do you get clients instead?  Yes.

11:34 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  So I did that episode after a lot of conversations, really on threads, but it's, it's happened to other places about like, I do not get clients from my email list.  And I, I do have an email list. I do email my list, but I've had this list for, I want to say probably like 12 out of the last 14 years.  I have hired copy. I've done templates. I've done all the things. And it does not convert for me. And a few years ago, I actually kind of was like, you know what?  It's okay. Like, I'm going to stop like fighting this and trying to make it work because I have a wait list.  Like, we're recording this in early March, and I don't have availability till mid-June. Like zero availability for clients. And so, and that is how my business runs.  I consistently booked out for three to five months with clients. And so, I kind of think of my email list as basically just another, like, touch point, brand visibility.  I've had some friends who were like, maybe it won't work for just creatives, but maybe you can get it to work for the ordinary business.  Because I do treat that as like a separate brand. And so, I'm like, okay, maybe, maybe soon I won't be.  I'm to say I don't make anything from my email list, but my clients really come, I've looked at the data in my own business, and they come from SEO, referrals, and Instagram.  And again, I do use email. I'm not anti-email. I just am like, people who are like, oh, your money's in the list.  I'm like, not for me. Not for me.

13:25 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  Yeah. And I think specifically for done-for-you service providers, our clients are not necessarily hopping on email lists. It's more of a trust-building relationship is why they hire you.  That doesn't necessarily mean, like, I would never advise, like, oh, just ditch your email list. Like, even though it's not converting for you, like, you still email regularly, and you have automation set up and all of the things.  So, like, it never hurts you to own your list. And at the same time, where can we focus our energy specifically for done-for-you service providers to continue bringing in those types of clients?  And so I can also say, I know several people who are done-for-you service providers were like, actually, yeah, email marketing is their primary source.  And then I know a whole other collection of business owners who are done-for-you service providers are like, I've never gotten a client from email.  You know, it's always networking events or social media or whatever else. So, okay, so let's focus then on, so yes, I think most people say, most people I talk to say referrals, word of mouth is where they get most of their clients.  But you cannot always control when someone refers you, right? Like, yes, you can have systems in place, you can make the ask, but at the end of the day, it's not up to you if or when they get the opportunity to share your name.  So I want to focus on your expertise. Of SEO and now GEO and AI search and all of that nuance because it has been such a reliable source of leads for you and keeping you booked out consistently.  And I mean, for 14 years, like that's no small like.

15:14 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  No, it is quite it's like weird to think about that I've had a waitlist that long. Like and I treat I will say to clarify, like I call it a waitlist and it's not like I have a list of people that are like waiting to work and they're just like waiting for the next spot.  I treat my to me, my waitlist is like I have clients in May, they're booked, they've paid, they're just waiting to for their time to come.  Yeah, so to clarify for people like it's not like I have this list of people that are just like waiting for their turn.  They have to like get literally like get on my project queue. But yeah, the SEO is. It's such a big part of my business, obviously, like it's part of what I do, but it also is a big part of how I get clients.  And I love talking about it because one, I'm just a nerd and I like to talk about SEO, but also I feel like for me, SEO is almost like self-care because it's marketing for me when I need a day off or when I don't want to like show up.  Like, you know, things have been busy lately, like preparing for the summit and just client work and all this stuff.  And there's been a few days on Instagram where like, yes, I might post a reel or something because, you know, those are scheduled, but I might not show up on stories.  Like, like, daily check-in, you know, whatever. And I don't stress about it because one, I just know being. I've business this long that not showing up on Instagram for a few days or a day or two is not going to kill my business.  But also I know that I have hundreds of people coming to my website every day because of SEO and they're out there for me.  So I don't panic when I go on vacation. I take the weekend off, you know, like that kind of thing.  And it's just working in the background for me.

17:26 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  Yeah, yeah, I love that. That's such a great take that SEO is almost like self-care. I've never heard someone put it that way.  But when you describe it, like, yeah, absolutely. That's what that is. And you can have a blog post from like years ago still bringing you clients.  But like you cannot say the same about social media posts necessarily.

17:49 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  No, and that's what like I have several posts from years ago. But one in particular where I talk about how Wix is not great and you shouldn't use Wix.  Wix as a business owner. That's a whole other conversation. But that post specifically brings in several leads because people will be researching like pros and cons of Wix and because they're thinking about their website and the platform and then they read my posts and they're like, hmm, mm-hmm, okay.  So I'm going to need to reach out to Jess. And like, there's not even, I would say it's a very just like, here's the facts, here's why you shouldn't use it, you know.  I wouldn't even say there's like a strong call to action or like, it's not like I'm pitching Wix is bad and you need to work with a web designer.  I'm just like, use anything else, any platform. But yeah, it's, I love the life, the shelf life of blogs that have, that they just, they're out there for so long.  I mean, I can't even say reels that I posted in January are doing anything for me or even two weeks, three weeks ago, you know, and blog posts are out there for so much longer.  And they just, if you're going to put all this effort and energy into content, I want it to last longer.  And yeah, I just, I think it's really important as business owners, especially as ordinary business owners who aren't bringing in millions.  We don't have teams of 10 people. Like we do things that have a bigger, longer ROI and really spend our energy in the right places.  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

19:47 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  The shelf life of blogs is really something that totally attracted me to like, oh, I want to take this seriously and commit to consistently putting blogs out there.  So you talked about not using Wix. As a business owner, what are other blog titles that have gotten you the most clients?  I don't know if any come to mind or like, oh, this is one that like regularly brings.

20:10 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  I have one because I work with a lot of health professionals who run like their own private practice. like dietitians, therapists, physical therapists.  And I have one where I'm just talking about like good dietitian website examples.

20:26 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  And that gets me in front of a lot of dietitians.

20:30 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  So that's really SEO friendly. I'm trying to think. I think I also have one for physical therapists too that's similar like that.  So like any of my really niche ones have done really well. And I think part of that is just because something I tell people is SEO loves specificity.  Google loves specifics. loves specifics. Google Google loves loves loves And so just this like ultimate guide to web design would not, especially nowadays, would not do any good, but being really, really specific.  So if you have any type of niche and really talking directly to them is going to be really helpful, not even just for SEO, but for showing up in ChatGPT and showing up in the Google AI overviews.  Like, and I mean, I've had, I don't even know, handfuls of people who send me screenshots and they're like, like friends usually who will be like, I was looking up something and look, you're in the Google AI overview.  And I'm like, thank you, SEO. And I wish more, what I wish more people knew about that is like, I've done nothing special with my content.  Like everyone's like, oh, AI. SEO, it's like, yes, I will say, yes, it has changed things, but so much of it overlaps.  And so, like, there's no, like, fancy plugin that I put on my website so that AI starts doing something to my site.  It's just, you put out good content, and AI is like, does this answer the question? It does. There you go.  And then they link to you. And I've gotten several leads and clients directly from ChatGPT. Like, I just finished up a consulting project with somebody who was like, yeah, I was talking to ChatGPT and, like, looking for a unicorn who could talk about X, Y, and Z and help me with this, and it recommended you.  And I was like, I want to know. Like, I want to know what it told you and how it led to me.  I mean, obviously, like, it's part of its SEO and just, like, she's a dietitian and that kind of thing.  But, yeah, it's just the content. it's just the content. That puts you out there. And especially, I'm sure you've seen like so many people talking about spending less time on social, completely leaving Instagram or like whatever, putting up a nine grid.  And I'm like, there's, even if you don't want to leave Instagram, there's so many people who are not on social.  But especially as more and more people hop off of social, they're going to need to go somewhere to find information still.  And they're going to go to Google and you want to show up there in front of them. Yeah.

23:36 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  Yeah, absolutely. And I would totally agree from my own experience as well. Like last month I got a client.  was like, you're not on my email list. You don't have social media. How did you find me? And she's like, chat GPT recommended you.  And she's like, what? And I was like, okay, so it makes sense because like literally exactly as you said, no fancy plugin.  I'm just regularly putting out good. Content that is answering questions that people are asking. That's literally it. And it's just like crazy how simple it can be.  And like we want to overcomplicate it, but it's really, it really can be that simple. Just like know your people.  What questions are they asking you? Just answer those and turn it into, into content. And it's funny, like it takes me probably just as long to make a reel as it does to make a blog post.

24:31 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  So, okay.

24:33 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  So how often do you create blog content or how has that changed over the seasons? Do you have a rhythm that has been working for you?

24:45 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  So that's definitely changed over the years. Back in the day, I was a very steady once a week blog.  When I was just getting started and had more time. Before I was a mom and before I had a podcast.  And all those things. So it used to be once a week. Eventually, that ebbed and flowed because then I started doing YouTube and podcasts, which side note for all of you who are also podcasters like me and Megan, put your podcast on your website.  Like, don't just put the full transcript as is because Google is going to be like, this is not helpful.  Like you want to re kind of reformat, remix it, whatever you want to say, repurpose it. You can still use parts of the transcript, but like if you want to talk about like saving time, like you're creating the content, just put it out there on the website because then you're not having to like fully write a blog post.  You might just be kind of tweaking and formatting and that kind of thing. But right now, I mean, my website has been around since 2011.  So like. It's been around a long time. I have so many blogs and pages and stuff like that. So I right now try to blog at least once a month.  That doesn't always happen, just depending on schedule. But again, it's not going to make or break things because I've built up SEO over the years.  And thankfully, Google is not like Instagram and is like, oh, you took a week off.

26:30 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  You're penalized.

26:31 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  And like, and so yeah, I would say right now I'm at like, a once a month. But what I generally recommend for people with their just getting started in terms of not just, I know the listeners are not newbie business owners.  But in start, if you're just getting started, like into SEO, or you're like, I want to ramp up my SEO.  So if you don't have any SEO at all, I would say try to do once a week for like two or three months or at least every other week just because you are trying to get Google to trust you.  And it's kind of like dating. And if you only go on a date once a month, it's going to be a long time to build that relationship.  So if you can just do a little spurt where you do more and then you can back down to like every other week or once a month for a while.  That's kind of like what I recommend for people. Yeah, I think that's that's smart.

27:35 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  That's what I've seen working as well. And it's yeah, I want to say like have fun getting into that rhythm.  Like, yes, you know, if you're an ex like what brings you joy about what you do start by talking about that or like if you record coffee chats that you're having with people, then take that transcript and turn it into a blog like use what you're already doing.  As ideas for your blog post, and that can help you get started and get moving so much faster, especially if you're a verbal processor, conversations that you're already having, just take that transcript, turn it into a blog, format it, all those things.  And that can be a way to get started. Okay, my next question for you is, I think a lot of people are like, okay, I know I want to get on the SEO brain here.  I know that's the right next step for me. I don't want to rely on social media. I want to be like, I want it to be optional for me.  But they're like, I don't necessarily know how to do SEO myself. And they're like, I've tried using AI to like find my SEO keywords.  Reliable. There's that method. Yeah. Okay. Don't do it.

28:53 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  Don't do it. She's shaking her head. So I know that, yes, you can go to... I just did a reel about this, about, like, going to ChachiBT and being like, help me work on my SEO and, like, da-da-da-da-da.  Chat or Claude or Gemini, whatever, they don't know the actual, like, keyword competitiveness, the search volume. And so what they are giving you in terms of, like, this would be a great keyword, they're just saying, like, it's relevant.  And this is a term that people might be searching. They don't actually know if it's too competitive, if anyone's researching it.  I do like it for just getting ideas or, like, variations, but then researching what it gives me. Like, so I might do, like, I'm looking for some, like, more ideas of, like, this phrase, but in different variations or different, like, maybe there's another word for this.  And, like, getting, spitting out a big list and then researching all of those. And you would be shocked at how often I put in this list of like 75 keywords and it's like three are showing up as even relevant.  One of them is way too competitive and the other one has 10 searches a month. And you're like, cool.  So you can use it for ideas if you have a keyword research tool that you're going to use, but do not just like copy and paste it into your SEM.  Yep.

30:31 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  Yep. Totally. 100% cosign all of that. Totally great for ideas, but for sure you have to research it yourself before you take the time to like creating content takes time and energy and bandwidth.  So make sure that it's going to be worth your while. Okay. So then we have to talk about threads.  I think it is continuing to grow in popularity. I think that is maybe even how we met. I think  I'm pretty sure it is.

31:00 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  Like a year or two ago, I can't even remember.

31:03 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  But okay, so tell us, how do you make Threads work for you? And how many clients would you say have you gotten from Threads?

31:12 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  So as of right now, I can say I've gotten one, maybe two clients from Threads. So I have a very different approach to Threads.  I really don't treat Threads as like a place to get clients. Now, I would like to change that. And I do kind of, I'm kind of trying to change that and help, you know, but my, again, I work with a lot of health professionals, and I'm just not finding that there are that many on Threads.  Now, I definitely know there are because I'm following and I like, I feel like every day I see a new one pop up in my feed.  But I even like so many of my past clients are not on Threads. Like they're just not on there.  And so I really dreamed. Threads is like water cooler slash a place to like meet collab partners, referral partners, and it's really where I'm building the ordinary business.  And that's like, that's even where it originated. So yes, I've only gotten like two clients from Threads, but it's brought me a lot of like new friends.  It's how we met. I've gotten a lot of podcast interviews. It's where my other brand was built and born.  So I really love it. I'm sure you have a lot of like specific follow-up questions about Threads, but yeah, that's how I use it so far.

32:43 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  Yeah, I just think your posts are so smart and like poignant and it's, yeah, I think what I love about it is people don't necessarily treat it as a way to get clients directly.  Some people do. But it is a nice water cooler and way to meet. Like I've gotten so many speaking opportunities from it.  Again, like just meeting people and feeling like I have somewhat of a community there. And I think generally, it's pretty supportive as far as like social media goes, like you're not going to find as many trolls or crazy people on there.  I don't know, or my algorithm at least is pretty good. But I don't know, is there anything else you want to add to that?  What is your favorite part of Threads or?

33:34 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  Yeah, so for me, I find two things that really work on Threads. For me, that's one, help to get those like one or two clients and help build ordinary business.  One, Threads does have its own kind of like SEO. Um, and so for those who aren't on Threads or you're on Threads and you're like, I don't really understand what's happening.  you. you. Thank The algorithm changes based on what you interact with, and it identifies like, oh, you clicked on this post about apples, and so we're going to show you more posts about apples.  If anybody listening is on TikTok, it's very similar to TikTok, that like what you interact with, you're going to see more of.  And so I'm very cautious about what I can just like click on, even if it's not, not just links, but like, oh, I don't like, do I want to look at all the replies on this?  I don't know, because then I'm going to see more content about this. And so me trying to reach more like health professionals, I will purposely put the word like dietitian or physical therapist, or whatever, in my threads post to try and get in front of them, because they are talking about.  Those types of things. I've even sometimes I will like try and come up with posts that are like, maybe not saying like the word dietitian, but we'll talk about like, carbs, or nutrition or something, you know, like, and because again, that's what they're talking about.  And so, again, it shows up as relevant in front of them. And then the outside of that, the other thing that really works is just being relatable and being really honest.  Like, that's what I find really refreshing. And I think a lot of people do about threads is it's the water cooler.  So we're more relaxed. We're more chill. Like, yes, some people are still posting like promo-y stuff, but it's really laid back.  And people just want to know, like, this is like the after-hours version of you. Like, not that you're completely like not talking business, but it's like...  you. You I might not share the, you know, somebody might post about like, oh, I totally messed up my checkout page during a launch.  They might not share that on Instagram, but they'll post it on threads because it's like, this is like where we are more honest.  And that's kind of actually what started the ordinary business is I posted a post. I was about to go to a conference, was feeling really frustrated because I got brushed off by a seven-figure friend who didn't want to have lunch with me.  And I, so I made a post that I was like, someday I'm going to host the ordinary conference. feel like TM, to be funny and cool.  It was like where you have to make under this, you have have less than this many followers, be in business this long, and like, and there will be snacks.  I'm just being facetious. I'm just like, I'm annoyed that people are acting too. They're big for their britches. And the thread, it didn't go viral or anything, but it got so much engagement.  People were like DMing me, like, I have event experience, not in a pitchy way, but they're like, I have event experience.  You should do this, and I will help you. And I was like, y'all are crazy. I don't know what you're talking about.  I'm not doing events. Fast forward, not even a year. And I'm like, okay, maybe I am planning an in-person event.  But, yeah, like, the real, the, I almost said the real, the threads that do the best are ones that are funny or really relatable and talk about kind of the, I don't want to say they're, like, negative, but it's, like, they talk about the, like, real honest parts of being a business owner and, like, how we as ordinary business owners often get kind of tossed aside because it's, you don't have this many people on your email list.  Like, you can't be in my summit. It became just a requirement that everyone have 5,000 people on their email list.  And I'm like, okay, well, I guess I'm not, I'm not cheating. And like, it is funny how many times over the years I have been emailed like directly.  And they're like, Jess, we would love for you to participate in this. And I read through and there's a requirement for X number of followers, email subscribers, whatever.  And I say, I don't have that many email people, like people on my email list. And they're like, thank you so much for your interest.  Maybe next time. Like something like that. I'm like, yep, that's what I thought.

38:39 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  And it's so ironic because you have a great thriving business, a wait list. You make a very comfortable, you know, income.  It's just, you know, it's, it's wild how we are just defined by our email list size. And like, yeah, not bad thing to have a big email list, but also.  So. Thank When we're defining people that way, it's just like, yeah, so crazy, so crazy. But I love what you're saying about threads being relatable and honest.  Like, that's why I love it so much, too. It's just like, it's just so refreshing, I think, to be on there and be like, oh, okay.  And like, get to know the real human behind the brand and behind the business. And it's just like, oh, like, you're actually someone that like, I would love to hang out with, or I would love to do business with, or, oh, you looked really like awesome on Instagram, but like, maybe on threads.  I don't know if we would be like, such a great fit, like values aligned to, you know, maybe not someone I would hang out with in person, which is, is fine.  But like, you get to find your people on there. Yes.

39:43 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  So, awesome.

39:44 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  Well, thank you for sharing about just kind of your mindset around threads and how it's been working for you.  And I will link Jess's threads link in the show notes as well. She is a great follow on there.  you. And then to wrap up, I always ask a couple of questions. So if you're ready for the rapid fire, doesn't have to be rapid fire.  But what is your favorite part about copywriting?

40:10 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  I love seeing people's personality come through in the copy. I feel like whenever my clients work with a copywriter and they just pull out so much of their voice and personality and it's not as dry and just like, this is what I do.  And it just, you know, like it just, it brings it to, like brings the website to life and I just love it so much.

40:38 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  Yeah, I can see that. And then what is something about copywriting that you wish was easier?

40:45 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  Oh, everything. I wish it were easier. I think I struggle often with, like, I want to make this engaging and like personality, you know, but also super.  Superclear. Because I'm big on like your website from like a strategy standpoint and SEO standpoint. It has to be clear.  And like this fluffy language is not going to work for the bots or the humans. And so, but it's like finding that balance, I feel like is so tough for me.  Yeah. Yeah.

41:23 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  It's, and I think especially writing your own copy, it's so much harder than doing it for other people. Yeah.  And what is a small joy outside of business that is fueling you right now? It is like 75 degrees in Georgia this week.

41:44 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  And I am just so glad that we are almost done with winter. I am a summer girl through and through.  I hate winter. And so I'm just really enjoying the really nice weather.

41:57 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  I am right there with you. I am a summer girl. Well, and keep me in Southern California because I need the sunshine.  Yes. Yes, please.

42:06 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  Yeah. Awesome.

42:07 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  And I'm sure so many of our guests would love to stay connected with you. Where is the best place to do that?  Yeah.

42:15 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  So you can find me on threads or Instagram at Jess Creatives. And then from there, you can find links to Ordinary Stuff as well.  Or you can hop over and listen to the Ordinary Business Podcast that Megan mentioned earlier. We have really short episodes and we're all behind the scenes.  How are people like making it work with childcare and busy schedules and all that? Yeah. There's some real gems on there.

42:43 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  It's like the real, real behind the business and like some good stuff of like, oh, I never thought about that.  That is so smart. It's just like that one little thing where you're just like, oh, my life is different now.  Like life changing.

42:57 - Jessica Freeman (Jess Creatives)
  I love it. it. Truly. Truly.

43:00 - Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
  All right. So that is all linked in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening.